The Pirates traded Josh Bell to the Nationals last week, and MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets that Pittsburgh righty Joe Musgrove is drawing “keen” interest and could get a look from clubs that missed on Blake Snell (not that the two are comparable in terms of track record). Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette offers a similar sentiment, tweeting that multiple sources have told him they believe “Musgrove is next” for Pirates as they look to continue their rebuilding effort.
Musgrove, who turned 28 earlier this month, is among the most obvious trade candidates on the market. He could very well have been dealt this past summer had he not landed on the injured list with what proved to be a fairly minor triceps issue. Musgrove missed about three weeks with the injury and, upon returning, rattled off his best starts of the season.
The triceps issue and the shortened slate of games in 2020 combined to limit Musgrove to 39 2/3 innings. He was solid when on the mound, however, pitching to a 3.86 ERA and 3.42 ERA with a 33.1 percent strikeout rate that shattered his previous career-high (21.9 percent). Musgrove saved the best for last in 2020, closing out the year 13 shutout innings against the Cardinals and Indians. He yielded just six hits and two walks against 21 strikeouts in that time — the best two-game stretch of his career. Musgrove upped not only the usage of his slider and his curveball in 2020 but also his spin rate on both pitches, which may help to explain the uptick in missed bats.
Musgrove headlined the return in the trade that sent Gerrit Cole from Pittsburgh to Houston back in Jan. 2018, and just under three years later, he finds himself in a similar spot. While he obviously is not the same caliber of pitcher as Cole, Musgrove is a prime-aged starter with a quality track record who is under control for two more seasons at a highly reasonable rate. He’s owed a raise on last year’s $2.8MM salary, although the injury will suppress some of his earning power in arbitration, and is controllable through the 2022 season. An extension doesn’t seem likely to come from the Pirates, though an acquiring club could have interest in trying to keep him long term.
Musgrove was the No. 46 overall pick by the Blue Jays back in 2011 and was regarded as a Top 100 prospect prior to his Major League debut. He’s been a solid mid-rotation arm to this point in his career, though his overall 2020 results and his excellent finish might lead to some optimism that he still has another gear into which he can tap. Since being traded to Pittsburgh, Musgrove has given the Pirates 325 1/3 innings of 4.23 ERA/3.69 FIP ball, averaging 8.6. K/9, 2.1 BB/9 and 1.05 HR/9 to go along with a 45.9 percent ground-ball rate.
The Blue Jays are on the hunt for arms and nearly acquired Musgrove this past summer, so it stands to reason that they’d have interest again. Others known to be in the market for starting pitching include the Angels, Mets, Mariners, Twins, Red Sox and Giants. Given Musgrove’s affordable salary, he’d be a logical fit on any contender or hopeful contender looking to add to its rotation.
whyhayzee
Musgrove to the Padres!!!!!
ElGaupo77
Musgrove is a good hitting pitcher and has even pinch run. He is a also heck of a human being
i like al conin
Are you Joe Musgrove?
loafrgoffr
Hahaha
fitted54
Padres just acquired Snell they are on the verge of squiring Darvish and you want Musgrave
YourDreamGM
Padres learned last year you can never be too stacked. If their by far best 2 pitchers didn’t get hurt, I wouldn’t have been surprised to see them win world series.
believeitornot
The Padres have enough starting pitching. They could make a move with their lineup.
5toolMVP
Blue Jays or Padres lol
californiaangels
he will be an angel by the end of the week
Halo11Fan
I really hope not. I.M.O. the Angels didn’t need to trade for an RP. For the money they are spending on Inglesias they had many many different choices.
This is the best time in memory to pick up free agents. The Angels need to spend and not give away players of the future.
seamaholic 2
There are no good free agent starting pitchers other than Bauer and (maybe, depending on how you feel about them) Odorizzi, Paxton and Quintana. But I do think the Angels will end up with Trevor Bauer … and deeply regret it.
bkbkbkbk
Why would they regret it now?
Halo11Fan
Then fine, add Odorizzi. The Angels should not be trading these guys. Not in this market.
Halo11Fan
So what star prospects have the Angels given up? What good prospects have the Angels given up?
quin14
I find hard to believe that Bauer end up in Anaheim when they five players $150 million. It will take 30-40 per year to land Bauer.
Halo11Fan
The more I’m thinking about Bauer, the more I think he might end up in Anaheim.
The Angels are going to lose Pujols (good riddance), Bundy and Heaney next year. They are going to need to add a pitcher and it’s better to do it this year than next.
I think there is a real possibility the Angels sign him. I didn’t think that was the case a month ago, but I do now.
Ace of Diamonds
No chance he gets more than Trout’s AAV. $40M is insane and $30M is still at the top of what Bauer will get. Pujols’ $30M contract ends in 2021, and Upton a year later. Bauer will fit like a glove in Anaheim…
larkraxm
Why is it better to acquire a pitcher this year than next. It seems the best time to acquire pitching is when it is available. If you are suggesting that this year’s pitching market is better than next, then it is time to invest in offense!
Halo11Fan
Because there are fewer bidders because teams took such a huge financial hit last year.
Strike while the market is down and the supply is great.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Don’t count out Sugano as a quality option too. He absolutely dominated in Japan and pitchers coming from Japan have a much better track record in MLB than pitchers who come from the KBL.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
30 to 40 million a year for Bauer? Are you crazy? Guy had one Cy Young season and now everyone thinks he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. He’s not even a proven #1 pitcher.
Eatdust666
He was also really good in 2018, but those are really his only great seasons.
ViolenceAtTheRim
Musgrove is a Starter not a reliever…
Halo11Fan
If that’s directed at me, you missed my point. The point is, in this market, it’s better to acquire players through free agency.
5toolMVP
@Halo11. Really? What other choices? Iglesias is a top closer the last 2-3 years.
The Angels had 14 blown saves in 2020 this was a necessary move and probably cheaper than Hendriks, Hand, etc.
Plus Musgrove is a mid-rotation starter.
Halo11Fan
Bradley is better and the Angels could have had him for less.
I’ve been advocating three free agent RPs. I’d rather Rosenthall as well. And if the Angels really wanted to get aggressive, Lima Hendricks.
Inglesias is piece three and they are paying for him like he’s piece one.
5toolMVP
stathead.com/tiny/7yEWq
Iglesias vs Bradley
Halo11Fan
I’d rather have Bradley for less.
If Angels had their way, Marsh would have been traded last year for Kluber.
redmatt
As a Reds fan, I’d dispute the statement that he’s a top closer.
5toolMVP
Bradley isn’t a better closer than Iglesias. Bradley would be better in mid-relief role and he’s still available sooo…
Kluber is a non issue. Why worry about a trade that never happened?
Halo11Fan
Bradley has been asked to get the tough outs. I’d rather have him than Inglesias.
I’m saying that people were nuts to want to trade Marsh then and they are nuts to want to trade Marsh now. Same goes with Adell.
HalosHeavenJJ
If the Angels offered Marsh for Kluber the Angels would have gotten Kluber. Marsh is way better than the package Texas sent.
5toolMVP
Go for it!
5toolMVP
@redmatt ^
5toolMVP
@redmatt the day of the trade there were SEVERAL comments or media articles etc that stated his value and rank (many top 5-10) among closers the last 3,4,5 seasons.
HalosHeavenJJ
Pretty cool that they have essentially identical number of innings pitched.
Iglesias has allowed 34 fewer runs and 61 fewer hits while striking out 54 more guys than Bradley.
But 11 won’t care about actual stats.
whiplash
Musgrove is a starter not a reliever
5toolMVP
Haloheaven yeah. Kinda what you want in a closer right??
OFF TOPIC…
This one blew me away…Compare Corbin and Bauer stats. Those two are like mirror image statistically.
Halo11Fan
Baseball Reference projects Bradley to have a better ERA.
What someone did in 2015 and 2016 is irrelevant.
Last four years Bradley has an ERA of 2.95 FIP 3.19
Last four years Iglesias has an ERA of 2.95 FIP 3.42
I’d rather have Bradley. You’d rather have Inglesias. Hard to believe anyone strongly favors Inglesias.
The Angels could have had Bradley for less and not given up any players. And I wish that’s exactly what they would have done.
whiplash
But musgrove is a Starter!
Melvino
HaloFan, Welp!
Halo11Fan
My point is DON’T TRADE PLAYERS when you can get people on the free agent market who are at least just as good.
The Angels would be fools to give up talent for Musgrove. That’s my point.
Bradley vs Inglesias is an example of that. That’s why I brought it up.
Ace of Diamonds
Na, Clevenger
DarkSide830
just like how they were a lock to land Cole?
californiaangels
can the angels get him without losing Marsh or Detmers?
Rsox
It is the Pirates so…yes!
A pair of low level minor leaguers and a signed John Orton Baseball card would probably get it done
i like al conin
Haha I love the John Orton reference.
DarkSide830
for whatever reason i got killed for saying this the other day.
sch1989 2
I want Adams. I think he’d be the starting point. I also like William Holmes. He’s a lottery ticket BC has gone after in his deals.
YourDreamGM
BC will trade any of his pitchers for two rhp. He would love to get a catcher or lhp or power of. But the best offers have been rhp. So out of the pirates top 30 some prospects, 20 are rhp and not a single lhp.
mlb1225
Musgrove is trending upwards. He’s a six-pitch starter who’s showed a lot of potential. Since arriving in Pittsburgh, he has averaged 3 fWAR/150 innings. Plus he’s projected to make less than $5 million in arb. He just needs a good defense behind him. Pirates have been the second worst team defensively since 2018 according to FanGraphs.
MetsFan22
Let me guess. The Mets were first??? Lol!
mlb1225
Mets were 4th behind the Blue Jays, Pirates and Orioles.
Ma4170
TBH I’ve wanted the Mets to target this guy all offseason, but looks like they’re content to spend rather than trade
MetsFan22
Yeah true. But we could blame the wilpons and Brodie for emptying out our farm..
5toolMVP
Only six pitches?? We need a seven pitch pitcher though! Lol
Jal179
We need Yu’s 17 pitch repertoire!
mlb1225
If Darvish is taken off the board, the Pirates will have a near-monopoly on the SP trade market. Gray is the only other pitcher I can think of who has gotten a fair amount of trade attention.
Old User Name
Jon or Sonny?
mlb1225
Sonny.
seamaholic 2
That’s just of the pitchers that have been openly discussed. No doubt bad and mid-range teams are looking at what the Rays got back and are re-evaluating their reasons for hanging on to their rotation pieces. I could see the Rockies shopping German Marquez (and Jon Gray), the Dbacks seeing what Zac Gallen or Luke Weaver would bring, the Reds have already talked about Castillo, the Indians Carrasco..
YourDreamGM
Will the hauls be as good without the padres involved?
bkbkbkbk
Marquez calling on line two
Ma4170
Yeah I can’t believe CO isn’t shopping Marquez… he’s a beast away from coors
mlb1225
He’s definitley a name I would have thought would have came up more often. Like Seam said, this is only guys who have openly been discused. But still, Marquez is a really underrated arm who I would have thought would be a highly sought after guy.
Tatsumaki
Angels should take a look, him plus bauer would be a solid get.
wu tang killa beez
I’d like to see San Francisco make a move here
DTDATL
I think he fits with them the best. He’s not gonna break the bank and his pitching style would work out very well in that ballpark. The question is, does SF have the system to get it done?
mlbfan9764
Musgrove would fit in SF, but it took a highly touted pitcher and a spot starter that didn’t crack the Nats roster to land Josh Bell. So, there is a possibility to land Musgrove in exchange for more pitching or outfield help since the Bucs have Hayes at 3B, Tucker for 2B/SS and they can move Moran to 1B. Maybe Heliot Ramos?
PiratesFan1981
Bell had 1 decent season and the other 3 seasons, not great by any means. Bell was never going to give the Pirates anything to brag about. Musgrove has the potential to bring home something good and make the fans jittery.
YourDreamGM
Pirates have room for anybody. They can care less and have no chance of winning in 21 22. Only player set for their future plans is at 3b. All their talent isn’t coming until 23 24 so offer them some 19 year olds.
YourDreamGM
Any team has the system to get it done. SF has a good system so easily.
davemlaw
I think Musgrove goes to a small to mid market team who have some prospect capital. Basically, teams who don’t want to spend on free agents but are in a winning window.
A team like the Giants don’t make a ton of sense. They can just pay for an Odorizzi or Sugano. They’re not trading any of their good prospects right now.
mlb1225
Definitley. He’s projected to make between $3-$5 million in arbitration and has control for 2 years. He fits what you are saying, a team like the Twins or Jays, but there are still many bigger market teams like the Giants, Mets, Astros and Angels looking for starting pitching.
cleve1969
“Astros …”
Texas Outlaw
What kind of prospect haul should the Bucs expect for Musgrave?
mlb1225
Honestly, the way the market has been playing, they could defintiley get a prospect in the top 50-100 range. He’s not expensive and has 2 years of control remaining. On Baseball Savant, he’s in the top 80th+ percentile in every expected stat (xERA, xwBOA, xBA, xSLG).
YourDreamGM
Pirates want talent with elite upside. They don’t care if the eta is 2023 24. They will take the best talent they can get regardless of position. If all things are equal catcher and lhp wins out. They can care less about some websites top 100 list.
HalosHeavenJJ
My trade target preferences for the Angels would probably go Gray, Musgrove, Carrasco for a combination of durability, projectability, and prospect cost.
Halo11Fan
This is the best time in memory to add free agents. I hope the Angels don’t trade anyone. They should be adding free agents and keep their improving farm system intact.
And for what they are paying Inglesias, they could have easily gotten a better RP. I’d much rather have Bradley than Inglesias.
HalosHeavenJJ
This is the weakest free agent pitching class in recent memory and all will command far more than the $3.5 million Musgrove will make next year. All are far older than Musgrove’s 28 years old and none, save Trevor “Pine Tar” Bauer have much, if any, remaining upside.
To further hammer the point, Gray is far better than any free agent pitcher out there and will cost a third of what Bauer is projected to cost.
There’s a lot of “meh” on the market but “meh” isn’t going to push the Angels forward.
Halo11Fan
Is it the weakest?
The biggest weakness is bullpen. Adding three and not just one BP guy would make a HUGE difference. And there are a lot of good RPs out there.
And with the exception of Ohtani, the starters that pitched last year, that are going to pitch this year, pitched pretty well.
So I disagree. Getting Odorizzi and Richards would make a huge difference.
5toolMVP
I’d love to see the Angels trade for Marquez. 25 yrs old, Excellent starter, 4 years of team control, could be even better full time away from Coors field.
Halo11Fan
Marquez would be very very interesting.
YourDreamGM
@halo11 I agree but there is never a bad time to trade if you can find another team interested in prospects that you don’t think as highly of. It’s not like you want to trade away future all stars. You want to trade away prospects that other teams are higher on then you are.
Halo11Fan
It has taken awhile for the Angels to rebuild their farm. And the Pirates are not going to trade Musgrove for so-so prospects.
All things being equal, I’d love Musgrove. But I think the Angels can spend a little money, and since I believe they can spend money, they are better served spending it than trading prospects.
Jal179
Good assessment. Hope the Jays and Angels can each get one of those three
BobSacamano
I don’t understand how the Tigers are not rumored in any trade talks. Not Turnbull, Norris, Cisnero, or Boyd?! I know these guys aren’t the best players out there! But, they’re an absolute BARGAIN for a season that’s so unpredictable. Anyone near or at FA, needs to be on the trade block; exactly how Pitt & TB are doing it. They’re not even close to smelling playoffs. What good does losing these guys in FA do for the immediate, or future of this organization? I’m not saying fire sale, but move some of these guys, and give yourself opportunities for days to come.. No?
mlbfan9764
The four names you’ve mentioned haven’t shown value in Detroit to even consider a trade and three of them are lefties, which is a prime commodity most of the time.
BobSacamano
The fact that Drew Smyly is making $11m, DeSclafani- $6m, Trevor May-2/$15.5, rest assures me that all of these players still hold value. I’m not saying they should ask for top prospects, but to continue the process of the rebuild.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Just once, I’d like to see a 180 in how MLB teams approach trades.
Normally, it would be something like Musgrove (a solid if unspectactular MLB player) for a handful of iffy prospects.
Flip it. Team X should offer the Pirates their top two best prospects or two of their top three, but the Pirates fill ALL of their holes. Send Musgrove, Adam Frazier, Steven Brault, Richard Rodriguez and Kyle Crick (something like that) in return.
YourDreamGM
I like that idea but unfortunately it usually takes elite players to get elite prospects. And if a team has that many holes they better be working on building their farm instead of trading it away.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
It wouldn’t make sense for most teams, but the Angels stand out. Lots of elite players, but no depth around them.
The Pirates should offer 4-6 of their better players in areas of need
Wouldn’t it make more sense for the Angels to just sign mid tier free agents to fill those needs? Yeah, but they never do. They either sign nine figure deals or nothing, for some reason.
Halo11Fan
What’s a mid-tier free agent?
Rankings by ESPN
Julian Teheran was mid tier (29)
Matt Harvey was mid tier (24)
Zack Cozart was mid tier, that didn’t work out too well.
Luis Valbueno was mid tier (21). That didn’t work out too well.
Joe Blanton was mid tier, that didn’t work out too well.
Scott Downs was mid tier, that didn’t work out too well.
So over the last ten year, it hasn’t worked out too well.
High Ranking Free A
The fact is, the Angels haven’t done very well adding free agents.
5toolMVP
You should apply for the next GM opening!
DTDATL
I could see San Fran, Seattle, Toronto, and Minnesota as 4 good spots for him to land.
YourDreamGM
He has 2 cheap years left. Will have a 3 something era with double digit strike outs. A lot of teams are interested in this. Throw a dart at a map.
Reuven
Good to see action pick up.
Jays make sense here, beyond their interest in the player, because the two key decision-makers in the Pirates front-office came from the Jays. Following a season where it was impossible to scout other teams’ prospects, your own familiarity with a prospect, and your trust in the people you’re dealing with to not provide you cherry-picked info about prospects’ 2020, weigh more heavily on your decisions.
Problem is, on a contending team Musgrove is a no. 3-4 guy, but he could still command a no. 2’s trade return after the Snell overpay set the starter trade market. I was hoping that if the Jays did decide to go for him, they could get him without giving up a top-10 prospect (Kloffenstein / Moreno / Martinez) as the package headliner. Now they might need to do that, and I’m not comfortable with that price for what Musgrove brings.
WillieS
Look at Toronto and get T Hernandez ( OF) and a solid top ten prospect under 21 years old. Toronto would do it ( fills a hole and they have many outfielders) and the pirates need another outfielder and I believe that Cherington will properly rebuild our minor league system.
Reuven
Outfield is actually the shallowest part of the Blue Jays – Hernandez-Grichuk-Gurriel the only proven guys, with no top talent in the system and Gurriel the trade-bait on a Lindor trade if that comes to fruition. And the front office are very high on Hernandez, believing his silver-slugger offense in 2020 is for real.
The Pittsburgh and Toronto beat writers for the Athletic did a mock trade negotiation on Musgrove to Jays a few weeks ago. It was very well done, and they landed on Gabriel Moreno and Dasan Brown as the price. It’s more than I’d rather pay, but not an out of whack price – kinda comparable to what they got for Bell (WSH’s no. 8 and 10 prospects, Jays no. 8 and 11 prospects).
theathletic.com/2224601/2020/11/30/pittsburgh-pira…
stormie
Washington has one of the worst farm systems in baseball though, so their #8 prospect is not even in the same ballpark as the Jays’ #8.
And including Brown, one of only 3 outfielders among their top 30 prospects, makes little sense from the Jays perspective. Their system is loaded with pitchers and infielders, and that’s where they’re likely to deal from (in addition to catcher, which was already included in that mock deal).
Jal179
Thanks for sharing that trade mock. I was thinking Danny Janssen (and a mid-tier prospect such as Dasan Brown) straight up for Musgrove.
Janssen is very solid defensively, cheap and will be better at the dish than 2020 showed.
stormie
I’d love to see the argument showing how Musgrove is even worth Teoscar Hernandez straight up, let alone worth him AND a top ten prospect from one of the strongest farm systems.
Jal179
Shatkins weird relationship with cheery Cherrington has me worried that they’d do something stupid like deal Teoscar away.
I think Janssen + Dasan Brown for Musgrove works IF they sign JTR…
Dorothy_Mantooth
Teoscar is merely a really DH going forward in his career. He’s a liability in the OF. You trade a DH for a solid #3 SP with upside 10 times out of 10 and you include another young piece as well to make sure you get the pitcher. If that’s what Pitt wants for Musgrove, Toronto will get the deal done tomorrow.
its_happening
Teoscar should command more than Musgrove. Why would the Pirates want Teoscar? They’d probably want a Catcher and maybe one other player.
SouthernBuc
This is not an opinion on Teoscar’s value but more his control. He has 3 years of control left and Pirates are trading Musgrove because he ‘only’ has 2 left. I think regardless of Musgrove’s value (and he is without doubt the Pirates biggest chip this off season), they will be looking for players with more years of control.
YourDreamGM
Exactly. Pirates have zero interest in major league players. They can’t even dream about being a playoff team until 2024.
bobveale
And also not looking for a DH. They just traded one, not looking for another.
bravesfan
I want my Braves in this mix, but I know it’s wishful unlikely thinking. Not to mention, we don’t exactly NEED him although you can never have enough good pitching. We needs some bats and need it now
BobGibsonFan
Pirates should shop Stallings. The way the catching market has gone, Stallings should have some value. He’s a good defensive catcher with a little pop.
Maybe Colin Moran (1b/3B) and Stallings to the Yankees for a couple low level prospects? Morin could be a nice left handed bench bat for the Yankees and Stallings could provide some solid defense at catcher. Sanchez could back up 1B and catcher and also provide some DH duty.
Rsox
Yankees already have Kyle Higashioka which isn’t much different than Stallings and Mike Ford who is basically Moran with more power. That is literally asking the Yankees to trade for what they already have
YourDreamGM
Even when Musgrove is traded. The pirates have 3 more starters and a handful of relievers to trade. They are not trading a great framer and game caller until that is accomplished.
bobveale
Pirates have no one else to play 1B and absolutely no depth at all behind Stallings. They need to add a catcher(s)
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The term “ballplayer” technically covers anyone on an MLB roster, but those who know what it really means understand that there are only a handful of them in the league.
Joe Musgrove is one of them.
YourDreamGM
I get you. He wants to compete and win. Hit. run.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Musgrove to Boston for Connor Seabold and Thad Ward
doug c
hope nutting wallett can get good return for him
joew
Of the starters Joe would be the one I’d most miss watching.
Just a hard player all around. Is a Pittsburgh type of guy.
sdctitans
It would be REALLY nice to see Musgrove on the M’s. Always liked his game and we wouldn’t have to give up top prospects. Maybe a couple middle guys.
Eatdust666
I wouldn’t mind it if they Yankees got him because I am not comfortable with the idea that their 2-5 starters could be Montgomery, German, Garcia and Schmidt or King. However, I think those last three guys could be good bullpen pieces.
Spare Tire Dixon
The Angels have to pursue a pitcher someday….right?