As the Nationals continue to explore their offseason trade options, the team is “definitely open” to including former top prospect Carter Kieboom in negotiations, The Athletic’s Britt Ghiroli reports (Twitter links). Right-handed pitching prospects Cade Cavalli and Jackson Rutledge, however, are not available.
Washington went into the 2020 season hoping Kieboom could step in as the new everyday third baseman, after Anthony Rendon left for the Angels in free agency. While nobody expected Kieboom to match Rendon’s All-Star level of production, the Nats surely hoped for more than the .202/.344/.212 slash line Kieboom delivered over 122 plate appearances. The lack of hitting led the Nationals to demote Kieboom to their alternate training site for just shy of two weeks, and his season was also shortened by a wrist injury in the final week of play.
Aside from a respectable OBP, there wasn’t much to like about Kieboom’s first extended taste of Major League action, as he didn’t make much hard contact and next to no power — Kieboom had the lowest slugging percentage of any player in baseball with at least 120 PA. However, Kieboom showed lots of pop in the minors, hitting .287/.378/.469 with 45 homers in 1462 PA in the Washington farm system after being drafted 28th overall in 2016.
Considering this prospect pedigree, Kieboom’s age (23) and the fact that the 2020 season was about the most difficult of possible circumstances for a younger player to acclimate himself to the big leagues, it is certainly very possible that Kieboom can break out in the near future. As such, Ghiroli notes that the Nationals surely aren’t going to “give him away” in any trade, if they were to deal him whatsoever. It’s probably safe to assume most teams also still see Kieboom as a valuable trade chip, so D.C. would only deal Kieboom as the centerpiece of a trade for an established MLB player — perhaps even at third base, to solidify that position.
Cavalli and Rutledge are widely seen as the top two prospects in a Washington farm system that is heavy on pitching, particularly right-handers. The sheer amount of depth makes it possible that the Nationals might be willing to discuss one of those less highly-regarded prospects (say, in the 5-10 range of their top ten list) but it also makes sense that they’re not budging on moving Cavalli or Rutledge, both first-round picks in the last two drafts.
Heard they renaming the “Mendoza Line” to the Kabooom
Oh my! How Original!
[sarcasm Alert]
Eugenio Suarez for Kieboom and Luis Garcia
Way to much. Garcia is Nats future 2B.
Yeah, not happening.
2B is overrated with the shift. If he was a SS, CF or C then yes. Anybody can play 2B these days
Not true
Moustakas and Travis Shaw say hi
Yeah well Suarez is the Reds current 3Bman. I mighty good one at that … one of the top offensive 3B in league … I have no interest in Kaeboom. Garcia is not an overpay for a guy currently performing at a very high level now.
2nd basemen have no value.
altuve
Suarez isn’t gonna fetch any big names prospects.
he may cuz he has 4 years left on his contract
That helps when they are cheap years. He’s overpaid atm
Average annual salary of $11M is not an overpay.
He’s owed just under $45 million across the next 4 seasons. Between 2018 and 2019, he ranked as a top 15 batter in wRC+, wOBA and OPS. The only third basemen to have a higher wRC+, wOBA or OPS than him were Alex Bregman, Anthony Rendon and Nolan Arenado. Oh yea, and the only guy to have more home runs than him was Mike Trout, by only 1. Teams would kill for that kind of production for less than $12 million a year. Yea he struggled in 2020, but are you going to judge him based on 231 plate appearances or the 1268 he had between ’18-’19?
Not even close to an overpay compared to production. I think you better take a closer look at his production. He’s not far off from the top 3B in baseball.
And he was coming off a shoulder injury. Missed the first part of the season
Look, I’m saying he doesn’t have surplus trade value because I actually am paying attention to the most recent season, and I understand what surplus value is
It’s fun to just pretend it doesn’t count, but he was a ~104 wRC and OPS+ In 2020. He was a subpar defender at 3b in 2020 and already was trending that direction. He’s not finishing the contract at 3B.
How much does it cost to get a 1B who can’t hit? 11m a year? And it may not apply to 2021, but what about 2023? Or his 2025 option for 15M? That’s a guaranteed bargain NOW? BS
Therefore, he does NOT have surplus trade value at this time. To me
Everyone can pretend 2020 doesn’t count or justify with injury. None of those things improve his value. A shoulder injury to a power hitter is a death sentence. He hasn’t shown he has the power back yet. It could take 3 years. It could never fully return. NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA
But you all want to write it off and pretend Suarez still has his 2019 value BEFORE his freaking surgery and mediocre year. Then call me dumb! Hahahaha
You want teams to pay 11M for 4 years(option for 5) in a depressed market with Covid AND give up premium talent, all when he had his worst year at the plate and an injury GM’s should be TERRIFIED of
So sure, if he magically becomes 2019 Suarez again, he’s a bargain. But at this point it’s less than 50/50 he ever hits 40 bombs again imo. Shoulder surgery is not a joke, and 40 Hrs is hard. Sorry you all are so biased you ignore recent facts that negate your argument.
Oh goodie. A power hitter with a shoulder injury who comes back and has no power. Oh and FIVE more years coming his way with the option
What could possibly go wrong!?
Laughing@You – You aren’t nearly as smart as you think you are.
What bigjonempire said…
Has no power? He hit 15 HR in 2020…that would equate to 40HR in a full season. Try again…LOL
Laughing@You is taking the argument to one extreme. But there are some valid points in there. This isn’t a great time to sell Suarez if you think he’s going to bounce back. There’s far more questions on him after 2020. If the Reds truly believe he’ll be back and they can eat the payroll—it probably makes more sense to trade him at the deadline.
Yeah. I’m the dumb one because im cautious that a guy who came back from a shoulder injury and put up his lowest slugging and OBP numbers in years… may not be be the same guy he was before he went under the knife
And his defense was average before the shoulder injuries. It won’t be improving. If the bat isn’t as good as it was before…. he’s no longer the bargain you pretend he is
Why won’t he, any teams that wants Suarez have to give up prospects. Suarez under control for a few more years and with his 49 homers he’s worth a lot. You have to give up talent to get talent!
Suarez has averaged 4 WAR the last 3 full seasons. Even last year he would have been good for about 2.5 WAR over a prorated season despite it being an off year for him. $11M for a 4 WAR player controlled for 4+ yrs is a steal. Bryce Harper hasn’t averaged 4 WAR over the last 3 full seasons and he makes $28M a year,,,
Ya nobody wants that though…you’re right
Everybody in this thread who says Suarez isn’t worth a couple good prospects or isn’t worth some “fill in the blank” prospect straight up, is flat out stupid. You might as well find a new sport to fan on. Take your unproven prospects and have fun winning AAA championships. Me? I’ll take the guy who’s playing third everyday in the bigs and mashing 40+ bombs on a super reasonable contract.
Preach
You go girl!
Everyone who thinks a shoulder surgery to a power hitter is something to ignore and won’t impact his trade value and/future production are the ones you should be laughing at
ESPECIALLY when he comes back and… has no power
@Ruckus
It really depends on the prospects. Even when “Value” lines up well it has as much to do with the acquiring teams farm system and he impact the trade would have on other MLB positions over the next few years. The Nats do not draft very many position prospects but always have a bevy of pitching. the franchise top ten is all pitchers. While Kieboom might be a piece I think it is just as likely the (potential) trade would be more likely to be pitcher prospect heavy
Do you even look at stats before you even post?? He had 15 HR in 2020 which would equal 40 HR in a full season…
Did he come back and have a crappy season because of the surgery or did he just have an off year? A shoulder injury does not impact a player’s value until it’s been determined whether or not the player recovered fully and has no long term effects. Potential trade partners with the Reds are going to know the guy had surgery and will do their due diligence on him. Rizzo isn’t stupid, he’s not going to give up significant value for damaged goods ***if*** that is who Suarez is.
283/366/526
270/358/572
*MAJOR SURGERY*
202/312/470
You’re telling me #3 is like 1+2? His slugging was over 100 points lower than 2019. A 470 slugger puts up about 25-30 bombs a year. As he did for multiple seasons pre 2018
A 500+ slugger, especially closing in on 600, can hit 35-50 bombs, 18+19 Suarez. And park helps a lot. But Suarez was not that man in 2020
Keep talking crap. He morphed back into the “power hitter” that hits 25-30 bombs and I have the numbers to prove it. You want to pretend he’s a 50 HR threat. The slugging doesn’t say that…
So yea. I looked at stats. Just way more than the number of HRs, which is clearly all you checked out
Congratulations to Suarez for a fine 2020 season. In his 7th MLB season, his slugging % was the 3rd highest of his career, and higher than his career average. Prorating his 2020 numbers into a reg 162 game season, he would’ve finished with the 2nd highest number of HR’s in his career. The strikeouts are the strikeouts. Can’t have everything.
If you’re excited because he lost his last 2 years of power progression, not sure what to say
His slugging was under 500 for the first time since 2018 and his OPS was lowest in 4 years. That doesn’t scream “invest in me with money and your young players!”
No intelligent executive sees shoulder surgery+Power decline and gets excited. Just dumb fans who live in the past
I see your fan club here just keeps growing and growing.
“No intelligent executive sees shoulder surgery…” — I like your approach, tough guy. Candid and all that. So let’s point the finger back at you. Mike Rizzo has supposedly checked into Suarez. So you’re saying Rizzo is not intelligent? LOL< his track record speaks for itself. Do yourself a favor: contact Rizzo and let him know what a terrible mistake he's making, and that he must be a "dumb fan", too. After he's done laughing, he'll probably set you up in a General Manager's job. At a gas station.
Wtf are you complaining about?! Rizzo if anything supports my point
He checked if he could get him cheap. Hell the reds prolly called him. But that doesn’t mean he’s trading assets like it’s 2019 Suarez. You’re just dumb if you think Rizzo getting a call from the Reds supports the thinking that executives enjoy Shoulder surgery for their power hitters
Ask Adrian Gonzalez how shoulders heal? Hanley Ramirez? There’s SO MANY that never heal, and most require at a minimum multiple seasons to get back to full production
Again. Looking for a bargain doesn’t help your point he has full 2019 value. IF he actually gave up Kieboom, sure. But that’s not happening. I like how you call me tough guy so you can try to act tough lol. Calm down you poodle. No one cares what you think
So mr loud mouth with no brain. Your complains prove nothing other than you put WAY too much stock into a bs rumor about a phone call
I put weight in…. surgeries. Boy who’s process is smarter!? Pound sand
Wrong. You haven’t supported ANYTHING Rizzo has done.
You haven’t made any “points” in this thread other than speculate like everyone else. “He checked to see if he could get him cheap” — LOL, you were next to Rizzo when he said this? And now Cincy “prolly” called Rizzo.? real solid there, LOL.
So according to you, Mike Rizzo has made his mark in Washington by making deals on the cheap for position players with alleged shoulder issues that are according to you are devastatingly horrible. Isn’t that interesting. BS.
“If he actually gave up Kieboom, but that’s not happening”. Whew, good thing you were in the room when Rizzo covered that. There have been NO media reports about what The Nats offered, IF they even made an offer. NONE. Zero. Zilch.
And please, stop pretending you dont care what me or other people think. That’s more BS. You care about what EVERYONE posts in this thread because you come running like a dog to a bone every time someone doesnt buy you into your blindass nonsense. It’s fun to watch you pee down your leg, though. Merry Christmas, Brenda.
Ludicrous
Wouldn’t give up Garcia for Suarez straight up
LMFAO
And trade a hole at third to a long term hole at 2B
Suarez isn’t worth Kieboom straight up
Lol “Suarez isn’t worth Kieboom straight up.” From everything we’ve seen so far in the majors, the Nationals would have to give up Kieboom plus other prospects if they want Suarez. Suarez is a really good player, and Kieboom looks like he might end up as a bust.
Suarez was super underrated. Only Mike Trout hit more home runs than him in 2018-2019. Trout had 84 and Suarez had 83. He was overall a top 15 batter in baseball.
You are nuts. Suarez has averaged 4 WAR the last 3 full seasons. Even last year he would have been good for about 2.5 WAR over a prorated season despite it being an off year for him. $11M for a 4 WAR player is a steal. Do you know how to do math?
Do you know what shoulder surgery is Doc? Who TF cares about what he did before he went under the knife
He’s a new guy till he proves he’s his old self
Ya…I actually perform shoulder surgery hence my name. He hit 15 HR last year=40HR in a regular season.
Yet you can only look at counting stats, not understand how his slugging percentage indicates he wasn’t that great of a power hitter?
I’m going to ring the BS bell
NO!
Garcia stands a good chance of being an effective 2B for years to come and is very controllable for a long period of time.
Fight me
What makes you think the Ted’s WANT Kieboom?
Excuse me, the Reds.
“I’ll give you this former top prospect who seems to be a flop for your established MLB player”.(chuckling he covers the phone and gathers himself), knowing as silly as it sounds it works…over and over again
You’re ignoring cost and age. Yes, Suarez for Kieboom and a low level prospect would seem to be a reasonable trade.
Nah, I get it….reasonable salary, big power, a solid glove and several years of control for a prospect or two feels like a mistake.
Where’s the Kieboom? There’s supposed to be an earth-shattering Kieboom!
+1 Martian hijinx
Awesome
You beat me to it. I’ve used that in previous Kieboom threads but it’s plenty good enough IMO for anyone to use it again.
Jed Hoyer on line 1
Suarez for Kieboom, Tim Cate, and Cash
I think they would regret this. It’s way to early to give up on this kid.
Definitely. He’s had less than 200 plate appearaces in the majors. At the beginning of 2019 he was seen as a futire star. He needs another chance before he’s written off.
Willson Contreras for Kieboom and Cole Henry
Keiboom was rushed.Give him some time before we think he’s AAAA material. Bergman was in AA at Keiboom’s age.
Kieboom was drafted in 2016. he’s 23. How was he rushed?
19 out of high school.
Sounds like they know something about their prospect that you don’t. Now that they have exposed him its too late. You have to let other teams think he is a prospect and pretend like you don’t want to trade him and then at the last minute you trade Jesus Montero to the Mariners.
Basing any decision simply on 2020 numbers is stupid
I’m guessing this isn’t based on numbers…work ethic, attitude??? They know something you don’t know about their prospect.
Or not.
That’s the part that scares me. Kind of like when the Reds were more than happy to trade Taylor Trammell…who was then traded a second time in less than a year and went on to post a .689 OPS year at AA
This guy is in same boat as adell, high pedigree and moved up too soon and hurt their value.
They should trade him I just done see “it” in his swing I think if they can land a big league bet for him do it play Castor or Garcia at third get a big bat at first or right and go at it
Waiter comes to the table….”May I suggest the fresh Kieboom? It wasn’t very good yesterday, but the chef has placed a high value on its future, and, a quite appropriately, the price reflects that.”
Suarez is better than Kieboom will ever be.
There’s your next JD Martinez, Mr Avila. Please give us something this off-season.
Kieboom for Tony Gonsolin. Nats need a 4-5 starter desperately. Dodgers get a young RH bat.
Nats have pitching prospects lined up like flights at Dulles. They could use a patch for this year, a veteran who can eat innings in the 5-hole. But not only is Gonsolin not that, but they don’t have to trade Kieboom for it.
Gonsolin has actually been a solid major league player unlike Kieboom. Cheap controllable pitching is expensive.
Who needs a 26 year old who’s already posted a 2.31 era (matching 2.29 FIP) over a full year as a starter, 1.3 BB/9, a career era of 2.60 and has 2 years of playoff experience. While not a FA till 2027
Ewwww
I’d rather have a 35 year old because he’s a vet!
I’m not sure Kieboom will work out, but selling low seems like a bad idea.
How ya doin’ Papa?
I still think Kieboom was rushed when came up for the first time When Turner went down. His 2019 stats point to a need for more seasoning. Last season was just such weird environment that he never was able to get his head in the game until he came back from the secondary site.
We still don’t know what the ceiling is for Kieboom. I really think this is a what if trade scenario for Rizzo. Collecting date that will allow him to make a deal to improve the team. I really think Mason Denaburg, Cole Henry & even Will Crow.
Hey D. Happy Holidays!!
Interesting. I wonder what Nationals fans think about this.
I would imagine last seasons dismal showing is only going to decrease his value a little in the minds of other GM’s so I think CK and company could still fetch a very productive player. With the hole at 3B, you might be tempted to talk to the Reds about Suarez.
He has a hot bath with a bad glove. Just like Kieboom, I can’t imagine GM’s putting a whole lot of value in the previous shortened season except that his glove wasn’t poor in just 2020. It was bad in 2019 as well.
2019 -4 DRS / -0.2 UZR
2020 -4 DRS / -1.3 UZR
That’s starting to show some unfortunate consistent reason to be concerned about his ability at 3B though I wouldn’t describe him as a butcher either. I guess it really depends on how much you value defense.
bath=bat. Man, I am going to get some guff on that one. =D
The line is better with the word bath. You stumbled onto something brilliantly funny.
Your really going to judge a SS prospects defense on his play at third base learning the position from scratch?
His Defense at short when he came up to see where he was at was not good but his overall defense trended upward all season. The Nats have not expressed an abundance of concern on the glove side. The problem was he appeared to be overmatched at the plate early in the year, especially chasing out of the zone . He did a better job of getting on base when recalled but still needs to make good contact more often Remember his age too when evaluating performance
Maybe the Braves trade a floundering young pitcher for Kieboom and team him with Riley and Camargo to solidify their unquestioned league lead in young, once promising, now struggling third-basemen?
Who has more trade value Kieboom or Lux? Bigger disappointment? Still relatively small sample sizes. The conundrum is keeping these guys hoping for better production or selling lower before trade value evaporates. I’d think most GMs hate selling low so they’ll keep them unless presented with a too hood to be true trade scenario.
Lux has higher trade value. He was a higher rated prospect, and even though he hasn’t really done much in the majors, he has had less of an oppurtunity than Kieboom.
Lux was believed to have Covid and his season never really got started. Kieboom just sucked
and lux was the better prospect to begin with
Lux easily and by far
So much for ‘can’t miss’ prospects. He’s looking like another perfect example why it’s ok to trade highly rated minor leaguers for PROVEN mlb performers.
Krissy Bryant for Kieboom
Kieboom’s bat might go Boom in Coors.
Nats have been interested in Arenado…
MrMackey [mmmkay]
Not since Arenado signed his current contract. The Nats need the payroll flexibility to offer their own player Free Agent level contracts. Arenado is also a long term salary weight that would impact payroll for a long time .to come
Rizzo and beane have extensive trade history. Matt Chapman free agent after 2023, the team has no money, boras the agent so Chapman is likely gone at some point. Chapman for keiboom and Robles? Maybe expand the deal to get piscotty as a short term Robles fill in. Then maybe A’s have the salary room to pursue semien signing or kolton Wong. And Sheldon neuse can be ready to take over at 3rd base
If you are giving up Kieboom for Matt Chapman I don’t see giving up Robles [and creating a second hole in the OF] in the same trade.
You can’t ust through the players who had a bad year last year on the trading block and expect Filet Mignon in return. A more ikely scenario would be Carter and on of the 5-10 prospects (if you had to fill it out at all.
mlb.com/prospects/nationals/
It would cost so much more for Matt Chapman. So much more.
Rockies should offer Arenado for Kieboom and the Nats #3 pitching prospect.
I’m sorry, but the guy has played 44 games, with most of them coming during a train wreck of a season. This guy should definitely not be moved. Played very well in the minors, and was their top prospect for a reason.
@Rhyhe1990
yea but the MLB team needs production this season & at positions that are traditionally high offensive output. [1B, 3B corner OF}
My preference is to hold Kieboom and give him a (more) normal season to establish himself. Depending on the signings, he does not have to be the starter and can get a Utility path forward that allows for more playing time and better grounding in multiple positions. But I think whatever his role he will be a vastly improved player.
As far as trades go, my suspicion is that Rizzo is setting market value and seeing if Kieboom can give him a more controllable needed piece. if the market is not there you keep the asset and do everything you can to develop him.
Reading the comments in here gives me a headache. It’s the latest installment of “We must assess NOW whether Unproven Player X is a bust or a star”, sponsored by MLBTR commenters.
The best approach is a measured approach: give the kid 400 AB’s before making any bold declarations about his worth, not after 143 AB’s after 2 seasons. 3/4 of the Nats roster SUCKED in 2020. Not just Kieboom.
Anyone who watched him knows he is pressing at the plate, he needs to relax and let the game come to him. Whatever you think of Kieboom, Rizzo is not going to allow a trade partner to significantly devalue him.
Gallo ??