Christmas Eve isn’t a time to expect blockbuster moves to take place in Major League Baseball, but the Nationals and Pirates came together on a significant trade Thursday. The deal left the Nationals with a new first baseman in Josh Bell, whom they acquired from the Pirates for young right-handers Wil Crowe and Eddy Yean.
Bell is a potentially huge acquisition for Washington, as he was a 37-home run-hitting All-Star as recently as 2019. Otherwise, the switch-hitting 28-year-old has been closer to average than great as a hitter since he debuted in 2016. Last season was tough sledding for Bell, who hit a disappointing .226/.305/.364 with eight home runs and a career-worst 26.5 percent strikeout rate in 223 plate appearances. Bell still has two years of team control left (he’ll make a projected $5.1MM to $7.2MM in 2021), but the Pirates decided to sell low on him. If he returns to his previous form, Bell shouldn’t have issues improving on the Nationals’ 2020 first base trio of Eric Thames, Asdrubal Cabrera and the now-retired Howie Kendrick. Nats first basemen finished the year 29th in fWAR (minus-0.7 fWAR) and batted .233/.305/.397.
The Pirates, who have little to no chance of competing in the near future, found Crowe and Yean enticing enough to part with Bell. Crowe is already their 17th-ranked prospect at MLB.com, which writes that he could turn into a No. 4/5 starter if he is able to refine his breaking ball and pitch usage. The 26-year-old made a brief major league debut last season, throwing 8 1/3 innings, and has notched a 4.03 ERA with 7.5 K/9 against 3.1 BB/9 in 290 minor league frames.
By MLB.com’s standards, Yean is a much more impressive prospect than Crowe, as it places the hard-throwing Yean seventh in the Pirates’ system. He’s just 19 years old, but combining “his stuff, size and delivery, Yean looks every bit the part of a future big league starter,” per MLB.com. Yean amassed 46 1/3 innings between the rookie and low-A levels in 2019 and put up a 3.50 ERA with 8.4 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9 in 46 1/3 frames.
What do you think of the trade for Washington and Pittsburgh? (Poll links for app users: Nationals, Pirates)
I give an F to the nationals and an A to the Pirates. Josh Bell is a Boras client that was terrible for 2 years, then good for 4 months when the ball was changed because MLB bought Rawlings and changed the ball to help hitters, then bell was terrible for a season and a third after that. All Bell cares about is making as much $ as possible while trying as little as possible. On top of that he can never perform when the ball isn’t changed to help him and a third of the time he can’t even do it then. The Nats just traded 2 good pitching prospects for a guy that will never try for them and wasn’t any good in the first place w/o a juiced ball.
You nailed it. Bell can be replaced with a dead cow and the production will increase.
Yup. Pretty much at this point anyway. He has made enough money that he doesn’t want to work again but will take any money that owners are foolish enough to give him on guaranteed contracts because he knows he still gets paid even if he doesn’t work.
Implication of the handle “bovinecrab” = the cognitive functioning of something between a cow and a crustacean
There is always the risk that the cow steps on the crab. One way to get cracked crab.
KnowitLESS…by nailed it…do you mean that he perfectly exemplified the online/sports blab “hot take” that involved little.analysis and mostly hot air?
If yes, I agree.
Otherwise, just an anonymous, shallow commenter that needs to puff himself up for others.
I don’t understand this move on the nationals part. They traded 2 prospects (not very good prospects by what they’ve done and how they grade out) for 2 years of Josh Bell. He’s projected to earn a little over 6 next year and then he’ll go through arb one more time. Meanwhile, they could’ve signed CJ Cron for prob less since he’s coming off a knee injury. Cron has hit 111 wRC+ over his last 162 with 35 Hr. Bell has hit 110 wRC+ with 35 hr over his last 162. Meanwhile, Cron xwOBA 19-20 is .368 and Bell’s is .363. Cron is also a much better defender. I get that bell is 3 years younger and a switch hitter and has reached heights in his career that cron hasn’t, but for my money i’d go cron or moreland
Bell was very productive in 2019 for a very bad team. There is no telling of the effect constant losing will have on a player. He had a great 1st half of 2019. And then slacked off. I think that was just due to statistics. He is not a .310 hitter with 60 home runs. So he was bound to slow down after his wicked start. He was also third pick for ROOKIE OF THE YEAR in 2017. So your observation that he was terrible for 2 years is hogwash. He played well on an otherwise lousy team. I was sorry that the Nats stole Bell because I like the Pirates. But if Pirates were going to trade Bell, i’m sure glad we got him!
Which one is it? Does he just want money or is he lazy and doesn’t care? A arb 2 guy can’t have it both ways.
I never said he was “lazy.” He wants money but he doesn’t care at all about baseball. That doesn’t make someone “lazy.” It just makes them a bad person to pay to play baseball for your team.
@crab you really sound stupid here ; we all want money … and how do you know he ‘doesn’t care’ about a sport he’s been busting his butt off training for the the majority of his life… I still think he sucks but your comments are unfounded and ignorant
@bovine He might not have cared about playing for the Pirates. I mean, to be real, there are not many teams that a player could be less excited to care about. No chance of winning as long as you wear a Pirates uniform, basically. He might perk up under a team with a shot at winning.
My bad, my mind took trying as little as possible as being lazy.
When the actions of the owner and former GM show that winning is.down the list of priorities, it’s inescapable that “the losing is fine” attitude will percolate throughout the organization.
They kept Hurdle on for at least one season too long to reinforce that “try hard but don’t excel” mantra.
DreamGM..That did seem like the implication that was made, however tired of a trope it is
Josh Bell is not lazy. He would do anything for his family. He just doesn’t consider his teammates or organization as family. He isn’t a lazy person. It’s about how little he cares about or even enjoys baseball as a sport. I promise you that you yourself care way more about baseball than Joshua ever will. If someone told you that you could make millions of dollars a year being something obscure like a ballerina or something you would probably do it. You would only do it for the millions of dollars though. You wouldn’t care about it and it would only be a paycheck to you. It wouldn’t make you a bad person or lazy. It would just mean that you don’t happen to care at all about the most financial viable opportunity available to you. Josh is in that same situation. I have nothing against him personally for anything off the field. If I owned businesses in a different situation I wouldn’t think twice before I hired him. I just don’t want him on my baseball team because the players that are really good love the sport and have passion for it. Josh will never be one of those players because like the vast majority of people on this planet he doesn’t care about baseball. That doesn’t make him lazy at all.
That’s cute kid. What are 10, 11 years old?
I wonder how many owners,gms,fans care if a player likes baseball or not? Or just cares about results?
Not that I have any reason to believe you that you know Josh Bell feels this way. As someone who has seen him numerous times during spring training and even before regular season games, looking to me like he was working his butt off to improve his defense and throwing weakness, I find your statements hard to believe.
He always does that on the field in front of fans and media. Do you know a single player that doesn’t? Even in the dugout between at bats he talks baseball. Everyone does. What do you think he does for his team when the fans aren’t there to see him? Do you think he’s going to be sitting in the film room with Juan Soto studying pitcher tendencies in the video room? Do you think he’s going to be calling up his teammate Max Scherzer to find out anything about what opposing pitchers will do on the mound since Scherzer probably knows them? Or do you think he will be gone from the stadium with his phone on silent and not answering any messages about baseball strategy? Most players do the former. Even the players that are far less talented than Josh can’t wait to bust their behinds because they are so excited about picking the brains of a Juan Soto or Max Scherzer. Do you think for a second that Josh is one of those players?
Absolutely no one can succeed at this level without caring about baseball. No one. I don’t care how talented a person is, you don’t make it in this game without a love for it and a dedication to it. He would have hung up his cleats long before this point if that was the case.
@Your, fair take. I read it the same way you did. To me, “Trying as little as possible” = lazy.
To get here, sure. But there’s absolutely the possibility of a player “making it” to the top league, getting some money in their hands and losing the drive that got them there. Doesn’t mean they’re going to retire because they’d lose the salary, but complacency is a very real thing
Complacency happens all the time in sports. Someone should make a list of the hundreds of players that fell into it in professional sports as a whole around the world. There is nothing wrong with anyone stating that they believe any player has fallen into complacency and bringing up facts to support that belief. Javy Lopez, Mo Vaughn, Brady Anderson, Yoenis Cespedes and Chris Davis are all players that can be viewed as complacent in some people’s eyes. Who is anyone to say that Josh Bell is 100% incapable of falling into that category?
Little fun fact for BovineCrab. Josh Be works his tail off, watches countless hours of video of not only his personal appearances but also of opposing pitchers. I have worked worked in video for many years now and had the pleasure to be around him over the years. The guys legit and cares about his craft. Please if you have no clue what your talking about, don’t come out and act like you have any clue of what players are doing behind the scenes.
yeah… csc2012, you are lying your face off. Flat out lying. Which video room were you in while you watched him study as much as his peers? Maybe you saw him when you had a camera out or something but you have never seen him when he thinks fans won’t see. You have never seen teammates try to call him to either give or receive advice and watched him silence, ignore or flat out hang-up the phone over and over and over again. Doesn’t matter if it is a vet trying to help him or a better young prospect looking for advice. None of that was ever on Josh’s radar when camera’s and fans weren’t around. If you are talking about working in a crew that records baseball players, that is a different story. I already posted about what he does during those situations on this board. Every single player knows how to act when the camera is on them. I rarely see one that doesn’t. It’s what you do when fans can’t see you that counts when it comes to being a good teammate and player.
“ He might perk up under a team with a shot at winning”
Looks like he needs to hope for another trade then
Good insight. It’s great to get perspective of someone behind the scenes.
Thanjs.
The more you comment, the more I start to think you’re s0mewhat mentally unstable. If Josh Bell bothers you this much, you should really reevaluate your life.
BovineCrab
Considering Josh played for the Pirates, I’m going to guess I have worked for that organization. Sometimes I flat out lie to myself though, so it could be another team. I work directly with the coaches and players. So I see which guys are watching film, but also am the one sending any video that they would like to see, whether it is personal and/or for opponents prep work. I just wanted to give someone insight from someone who works around these guys when they are not around cameras and fans. These guys are in the cages for multiple hours a day, while fulfilling any other training and body care needed on a daily basis. Whatever they do for game prep they will also do. I don’t know what Josh Bell you are referring to, but he is a pretty reserved guy on and off the field. Not big on social media or putting his personal life out there for everyone to see. Great guy who works his tail off.
Must be decent to hit 10 Hr’s in less than 60 games & not really try?
What qualifies you to make those statements? As a Pirate fan, I’m really curious.
@ bovine:: How do you know anything about Josh Bell’s approach to baseball? You make a lot of claims without a scintilla of corroborating information. Somehow I feel like Mike Rizzo knows more about this subject than any commentator here.
Bucketbrew – I know quite a few guys who don’t love it and think of it as a job. They def grew up loving it, but the minors takes a lot out of guys and the business is taxing as well.
How the hell do you know? Live with the young man or have dealings with him? He’s going to a winning organization, that reenergizes players. Had a BAD season & hit 37 HR’s . I’d take for a Crowe or Yean anytime!
Don’t listen to this troll. Bell is not a clubhouse cancer as he’s stating in other comments. I’ve never heard a single bad thing about Bell about his attitude, work ethic, etc.
@mlb I agree he’s not a cancer or anything; but he does flat out stink … he’s a replacement level player at best
He’s actually had 3 decent seasons….
Hmmm ; define ‘decent’ please
@VST What can you possibly be looking at that would convince you that Bell is a replacement player at best? He had 37 homers and drove in 116 in 2019, on the Pirates, with a .936 OPS. His 2020 numbers fell off but still… to say he flat out stinks is flat out untrue, and pretty much ridiculous.
His numbers took a dive after the all star break in 2019 so this isn’t just one season of trouble.
Define “Hmmm”. Expand your lazy vocabulary and learn how to type.
Tjeck….correct! it is 2/3 of a season of trouble. That is easy to recall if reminded that the All-Star game is not at mid point and 2020 was 37% of a season.
I do not thinking anyone on these comment boards is claiming to be that Josh Bell is a future, perennial all-star. He does have good OBP skills and the frame for power. Several scouts projected he would hit for power as he matured at the MLB level.
Maybe he’ll end up being just a bit better than James Loney. That would make it to be bad trade if one of the pitchers develops into a MLB bonafide.
The people claiming that Bell is a replacement level player seem to have recency bias while also omitting about half his MLB career.
Worse yet, when one proclaims that a guy is garbage like VST1010 has, VST101 is really just projecting to the world that they view themselves as such.
@lolzmets do you suffer from little man syndrome? Or are you just the prototypical wanna be elitist who hides behind a keyboard and makes sad attempt to insult strangers on the internet because they have nothing better to do? Go get a girl dude, seriously
Sad little pirates fan ahaha. I love when players rake in the dough… especially a boras client, when they hit FA…. ouu its nice
I love when players rake in the dough as well. Just as long it isn’t for my team. Not a big fan of giving 30 year olds hundreds of millions.
You would be cranky too if your team kept trading their young players and they improve after leaving.
Maybe the team is the cancer?
Have you ever thought that there production can be affected by how the team is doing? Maybe in the two months that he got hot the pirates were doing ok and then they fell out of it. The same thing happened with Dylan bundy and I think the same will happen with bell
The nats traded a guy that turns 27 mid season this coming year and has only made 3 major league appearances in which he got lit up, and a 19 year old. So which one of them is the “good prospect”? @bovinecrab
The 19 year old. You remember those right? In the Nats division alone I can think of several. Mike Soroka, Ozzie Albies, Ronald Acuna Jr. and I think there is at least one more 19 year old that turned out great but I can’t put my finger on it…. I think his name is, uh… uhhh… oh yeah. JUAN SOTO!
D to the expos and a c to the pirates
Is this even a question? Washington in a slam dunk. Get out of here.
No it’s not
I am a Pirates fan and I can tell you this, his bat is great. While he may not have the best glove, his bat is downright huge and he is a fantastic pickup for the Nats and a blow to my Pirates
I think you need to actually watch your pirates ; bell is absolute garbage. He had 3 good months … that’s it
Nonsense….he had 3 decent to good years
VST…when you describe a person as garbage, you undercut any point you are trying to make and instead make yourself appear closer in value to potential refuse.
Bell never answered VST’s hand-written request to “have a catch”. Broke his heart.
@paddy; that is cute. Your momma must be proud that you grew up to be a keyboard warrior
Seriously… did you elapse into a coma at the 2019 Allstar break? He looked terrible in the HR Derby then proceeded to collapse his offensive production the rest of the year and into 2020. His swing, which WAS powerful but downright ugly, got even worse as he began to chase pitches a foot or more out of the strike zone. I think that he’s a good guy but at the end contributed little offensively and defensively.
You’re telling me the Nats won the trade by giving up a top 10 organizaitonal prospect for a defensively challenged infielder with a career fWAR and bWAR under 5 in more than 2000 plate appearances?
Multiple top 10 organizational prospects according to some evaluators. A lot of people think the 19 year old the Nats traded away will far exceed the guy that’s more proven to this point.
MLB 1225, have you seen the nationals farn system?
Zero players in the top 100. These guys were top 10 prospects for the nats and when they go to the pirates… another bad farm system, they get rated higher.
In 3 years, when Bell is in an all star game you wont remember the two guys the pirates got because they wont be in the majors any more.
Cause it isn’t possible for both teams to benefit? Washington is in win now and Pittsburgh is planning for 2023 to 2033. And if anyone “won” the trade it’s the Pirates. I will always take the huge years of control on possible elite players for limited years of a average player.
Nats got a average at best dh who can potentially live up to the glimpses of greatness he shown for a few months out of his career.
In what way is it beneficial for a win-now team to acquire a defensively challenged, mediocre bat that plays first base?? He provides little value to Washington.
@myaccount Because they gave up 2 assets that don’t help them in their best window of contention for someone who can.
I would say bell is a upgrade from last year’s production. But hey they could just go out and sign a first baseman who gets on base a lot and will hit 20 some hrs with the upside of 30 some for 7 million or less.
“Possible elite players” is a stretch here, especially for the 26 year old prospect with a #4/5 ceiling.
@priggs no stretch at all. The youngster as the possibility to be elite. The 26 year old does as well, as do a lot of prospects, but with a lot less likely hood. Still a nice prospect. Has multiple pitches and if he can develop one more from average to good then he can be better than a back end starter. Oh no he is 26 and still a prospect! He was terrible last year! He was called up in a desperation move and wasn’t ready. And yes, if you go to college and require tj you aren’t going to be major league ready at 22 23 years old.
Give Josh a month at first base and you’ll change your mind…
Nats won this trade. Those that can’t see this must give up their man card for an extra dose of soy latte.
caldo, you should probably start watching baseball before you comment on here.
Exactly….it’s gonna be ugly in the field but not nearly as ugly at the plate as he flails at pitches out of the strike zone while taking fastballs right down the middle. Perfect case of addition by subtraction.
Month? A few innings should do the trick. And when his all arms and no lower half swing is seen….ugh. Tremendous power…when and if he connects.
Nats definitely won the trade. Big question is if Bell can rebound or not.
Bell won’t rebound because he doesn’t try and all he cares about is money. Bell was ONLY good because of the juiced ball. They changed the ball in the playoffs in ’19 and he never got the magic back. He went back to the way he was before the juiced Ball. Not to mention he puts as little effort in as possible and literally only cares about money. Bell doesn’t care what team he plays for. Bell doesn’t care about winning or even his own personal glory. Baseball is a means to an end to Josh Bell so he can get a paycheck. His number may slightly uptick in 2022 because it is a contract year for him but Josh Bell will be terrible in 2021 and every season after 2022.
Well that’s a pretty hypocritical statement. If all he cares about is money then he’ll try the best he can so he can get it.
It’s not “hypocritcal.” I think the word you were looking for was oxymoron. What I mean is we have all seen players that play like baseball doesn’t matter and then all of a sudden perform better on (and only on) contract years. The Braves Javy Lopez comes to mind. He was terrible for years and then all of a sudden got in shape and hit more homeruns in 1 season than any catcher in MLB history. Josh Bell is that type of player at best. Not enough discipline to work on his craft all the time but when it comes down to the wire he MIGHT put a little more effort in during the 2022 season when free agency is literally staring him in the face.
Basically saying he’s lazy, which, if I recall correctly, you said that you didn’t think he was lazy, in a previous comment/reply
So they won a trade by getting a guy IF he proves 3 good months out of a few pro seasons isn’t a fluke? Doesn’t sound right to me
It doesn’t sound right because it’s not right. The Nationals lost the trade.
If you say so. Both teams gave up players they have no use for the next 2 years. Personally I would rather have the potential ace teenager then a average dh. Give me the prospects and I will go out and sign santana or cruz.
I think the Nationals did well here. I think the 19 year old will be good. I’m not high on Crowe. However, I don’t think Bell is good enough to follow Soto in the lineup. I’m still waiting for a third baseman. I don’t have a problem with Turner following Soto and Bell hitting fifth.
cheer- He won’t, so Pirates won the trade easily.
For certain the pirates can’t lose the trade. They are not contending in 21 or 22. They traded a player that they weren’t going to resign and saved roughly 15 million. If bells hits .400 with 50 hrs for the nats it doesn’t matter. Pirates got something for something that had no value to them unless there is going to be a season with full fans in attendance. Then they lost a few ticket sales, but only a few.
As a Nats fan I can assure you Crowes 91 MPH fastball ain’t gunna cut it in the bigs. And we kept our top prospects. If Bell is anything close to ‘19 this is Nats in a landslide given how badly we needed a bat with pop. Thank u Rizzo, Merry Christmas to all.
Won’t be that good, of his 4 years one was great. Prospects are middling but so is bell.
he was a good hitter prior to 2019 too. the impact of the defense on his value obviously looms large, but id you are willing to deal with the defense then his floor is as a solid hitter.
Bell has already proved the 3 months of 2019 was a fluke. Also, if you think pitch speed indicates success, you don’t know much about baseball.
@dtd. Maybe the name Greg Maddux would ring some bells as far as pitch speed?
39 bombs in ‘19 ain’t a fluke. If he hits around .260 and 30 bombs – which he’s more than capable of doing – then that’s all the Nats need. I suspect Rizzo will go after one of JTR/Ozuna/Suarez to help get more pop in the lineup then the Nats will be contenders again.
2019 “bombs” were a fluke for a ton of players. Have you never heard of the 2019 juiced ball? Even Verlander complained about it.
Verlander’s a pitcher. Of course he’s going to complain about it. They negatively affect his stats
Hes dont that once.
Bell will never be close to anything like he did in 2019. That was the juiced ball season. The juiced ball was the only reason he was good for two thirds of a season. His lack of effort and motivation is why he was still bad for a third of that season. His lack of ability is why he has never been any good at the MLB level outside of the 2019 juiced ball season.
I’m kinda slow on the uptake, and it would be good if you would continue posting the same stuff several more times. Writing it out only once means your take might be legit. But write it out 4 or 5 times, then you’ve got a solid take.
Well put Bruno
Can’t blame him for giving effort when your team can’t win more than 60 games a season. Loser franchise. He’ll be on a contender now.
If you don’t try for the team that drafted you, you’re not gonna try for anyone else. That’s a huge red flag.
Everyone can and should blame any baseball player making millions of dollars a year to play baseball for not putting in effort regardless of what team they play on. That is literally their only job and they are paid handsomely for it. BTW… the Nats were a last place team last year, not a winner.
Crowe was just a throw in to sweeten the deal. He is a nice project and someone has to pitch when Musgrove tailon brault kuhl are traded.
The Pirates are and will be pathetic until a new owner buys the team, and ends the penny pinching ways. The losing will continue for another decade, until someone steps in and saves the team, or MLB contracts them. I wash my hands of this franchise, I’m sick of losing quality players because ownership doesn’t want to pay them.
Playoff contenders 2023 through 2033
the Pirates got a low ceiling prospect in Crowe who isnt bad but will unlikely ever be great and a low floor prospect who i doubt ever makes it to the Majors. classic Pirates return.
That’s still better than a player who plays at one of the easiest positions in the game, gets paid a lot more money and sucks on top of all that. Especially when he is a clubhouse cancer and puts in zero effort like Josh Bell does.
your last sentence sounds completely contrary to what ive heard from others about him. proof?
He doesn’t have proof. He’s just copy/pasting the same thing in every comment. Bell, from what I’ve heard and seen, is a great person.
Never heard anything bad about bell. If he can still swing the bat he will be a fan favorite.
Garbage for garbage ; pretty even trade
i mean who else was going to play 1B for them, Jake Noll? FA options are mostly trash.
Rather had santana or Moreland. Or go find a catcher who can’t throw anymore but gets on base.
well that’s essentially only Moreland then given Santana is off the board and most of said catchers probably arent good hitters anyway (as in there are no clear Joe Mauer guys available that i can think of)
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
They could of had santana, they choose not to. Bell is ?. Can’t count on 2019 numbers but a decent chance he can repeat. Could get well under .250 ba with a low .300 ob and 18 to 23 hrs or .280 .380 with 33.
Crowe wasn’t the headliner. It was Yean. Yean has a much higher ceiling than Crowe.
Yes. That is what I am trying to tell people. They act like the Nats gave up a low ceiling pitcher and a nobody. The Nats gave up a high floor pitcher and a potential stud.
If you stuck with that instead of claiming Bell is a replacement level player, you’d get more traction.
i know that. and im saying the headliner has a very low. floor and very little Minors track record. i dont put that much stock in alt site showings. put those numbers up in real games and then you might convince me. same reason why i usually wait to get too excited about any 16 year old international guy until his skills actually show in real game action.
These two guys on here BovineCrab and DTDATL seem like they have nothing else to do but sit on this page and criticize a major league ballplayer that they don’t know, nor will they ever know him. Lol you two sound so salty and childish
Unless they dated Josh Bell or relatives of his, there is no reason to believe he is anything but a good dude.
Indeed. Claiming that a professional athlete at the highest level “isn’t trying” without any sort of proof is just ridiculous.
I never said he was a bad dude by the way. I responded to someone else’s opinion on his effort.
Good guy, no question but one of the ugliest swings in baseball. He makes Hunter Pence and Todd Frazier’s swing look like Griffey Jrs.
You can say whatever you want RedKing. You don’t know who I am, what I do for a living or which people I know and have spent extensive time with. I know you like to think every single person that comes on this site is just some baseball fan like you but this is a very important site when it comes to MLB trades and it is one of the sites that almost preemptively sets the MLB free agent market in terms of what some owners think they should pay certain players. It is very clear that you are the one that will never know Josh Bell. I can’t speak for DTDATL but don’t make any assumptions about me. Why don’t you listen to someone who actually has insight, unlike you?
Riiiiiiight. Now you just sound delusional. I’ll leave you be, since this is CLEARLY a very touchy subject for you.
Bovine. Just because it’s the holidays doesn’t excuse you from taking your meds… with or without the sauce, the meds are obviously important in your “life”. You have no clue about Josh Bell anymore than I have about your relationship with Rupaul
Cowcrustacean seems to have delusions of grandeur by proxy. “…Almost preemptively sets the MLB free agent market in terms of what some owners think?”
Dude, maybe you are thinking of your own FLB? Send an email to Tim Dierkes on that claim, he may shoot you down for a bit of reality
It’s better to think out one’s writing before posting and to avoid DWP, drinking while posting.
Glad you’re paying attention to what I’m saying, you might learn something
No lol, I wouldn’t say that. When I’m seeing the same two names over and over replying with negativity and silly claims it gets tiring, and I think it’s worth pointing out that you two are sitting here hounding on Bell and some people on here for saying anything spmewhat optimistic about the guy.
What did I say that was silly? He’s not a good player. His defense is atrocious and his offense is average at best even during the juiced ball season of 2019. You can call it negativity if you want but truth is truth, period.
Again, it’s really more so the other guy who’s an idiot. Your points about Bell are valid, and I agree that Bell is a middling player. I just don’t think you and Bovine’s method of talking everyone’s ears off about it is tiring.
If your tired, Redking go to bed and stop reading either of our comments. No one makes you read them. No one makes you scroll down and God knows no one makes you respond to them. So 2 people think Josh Bell will be a bust for the Nationals and reply directly to other people’s comments and you have a problem with that? I only made 1 “comment” on this page and then I replied directly to other people who commented. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think DTD did the same exact thing. It’s not my fault or his fault if you want to read conversations we have with other people. You are free to do so but please don’t get so butt hurt about it. Nobody said anything bad about you. Nobody said Josh bell was a bad person or “lazy” or anything like that. Everyone has their own experiences in life and I think myself and DTD are trying to share our opinions about this trade based on our life experiences on this board. Nobody said anything offensive. I can’t speak for DTD but when I respond to someone else’s comment it is a direct message to them. If you want to read it go ahead. Don’t harp on me about a bunch of conversations I never had with you in the first place. In fact… I think you were the one that started replying to me in my conversations. You are entitled to your own opinion as everyone else is but don’t try to make myself or DTD feel bad for having conversations with other people… please.
@DTD….His defense is not good. But “his offense is average at best in 2019?”
No evidence to support that. I suspect he’s end up closer to a 120 OPS+ for several years. Strong OBP with SLG% that fluctuates from year to year. Claiming his offense was average in 2019 is silly.
Trying to cite his production in 2019 as a small sample size is disingenuous at best. His rookie year was closer to 100 OPS”
He hit for less power in 2018, struggled for the last two month of 2019, and had a bad 2020 season (37% of a regular season).
It’s pretty clear his production is a mixed bag, claiming one way or the other is premature.
I have to give paddy that. Bell had well above average offense in 2019. It was only in 2019 during the juiced ball season, though. On this one, paddy is right.
Paddy, his offense was average because of the juiced ball and the fact that he only performed for half a season. I never said anything about a small sample size. He’s been in the league for a few seasons and other than 3 months, he’s been remarkably meh to awful.
Does anyone hear something?
A for the pirates. A kid that will soon be a top 100 prospect alone makes it a A. Bell wasn’t signing an extension and this return is great. Why gamble and hope he rebounds? Plus with so much uncertainty with future seasons, move players now while you can.
C for nats. Bell is cheap and has huge upside. They gave up a great prospect but they are in win now mode, not win in 2024 to 2030.
C for the Nats is optimistic but you make solid points.
C is just a c. I think they gave up a great prospect and another solid one. But by the time the teenager is ready, Soto turner will be nearing free agency and Corb and Stras will be how good? When you have a elite player and 3 expensive pitchers your window is now. Bell could hit .230 and struggle to 20 hrs or hit .270 with 30 some.
Pirates got a good return. Nationals got a guy who was good for a brief stretch 2 seasons ago. But the Nats can use him sparingly. He’ll likely platoon, possibly with Zimmerman. So B for Pirates. C for Nats.
The Pirates sold low but I am not sure it matters.. I think both clubs come out as lovers in this deal.
Lovers huh. That’s more of a comment for the tmz boards then trade rumors.
You aren’t funny.
I dont know if the cupboard is so slim in DH/1B types on the free-agent market, that would make me give up a pair of decent type of potential arms to get someone like Bell.
Gave the Pirates a B and the Nats a C. Bell is so inconsistent and unreliable. He could be Silver Slugger winner for a month, but look like a Quad-A bench player the next month. The fact he’s a complete butcher at 1B doesn’t help either. Yean looks really promising and I’m surprised that any team, even a team with as weak of a farm as the Nats, were willing to give up a top 10 organizational prospect for him. On the other hand, it feels like they sold a bit low on Bell. Definitley has the potential to start the year off hot and get a better return in like June, but it wouldn’t be something I would bet on.
I’d flip those grades to a B for the Nats and a C, maybe even a D, for the Pirates based on what I’ve read about the prospects.
Agree 100 percent they sold low. Disagree they could have done as good, let alone better with only a year and 2 months of control yet. No certainty with what the season will look like. Fans or no? Short or full? Even no season can’t be totally ruled out. Same with 2022.
Good assessment!
Why are people making this out to be a ‘big trade’ ?!? 2 nothing prospects for a guy who will be out of the league (he’ll go to Japan) by mid next season (at the latest)
The Nationals are still in their window so it makes sense for them to add Bell. It almost seems the Pirates were dumping salary just to pick up to scratch ticket arms. I ranked it a B for the Nationals with a floor of C- if Bell is nothing more than a .260 20 – 25 homer guy with below average defense. It is a D for the Pirates as they aren’t getting anything even worthwhile to help in the short term.
@goose; you wish he would hit .260 … it’s going to be far closer to .200 with 26-30% strike out rate… this is not a great pick up for the nats unfortunately
Short term for them is 2023 as far as trying to win games.
Pirates only short term goals are to trade away 4 starting pitchers, a couple relievers, and what to do with their high draft picks.
Not a Nats or Pirates fan, but from my POV this is a big win for the Nationals based on the reviews I’ve read about the pitching prospects they surrendered. The prospects are marginal. The Pirates getting a minor league pitcher, who is already 26, who “could be” a backend starter if everything goes right with his development doesn’t seem like a decent get. The Nats, on the other hand, get a potential impact bat at 1B, who they can also platoon with Ryan Zimmerman if he returns.
Don’t see how this is not a win for the Nats.
See GoLandCrabs post below for how it’s not a win for the Nats. It’s interesting to see so many different opinions on this one. I sort of think both it’s low impact for both teams.
I don’t see how it isn’t a win for the pirates. The pirates got anything for a guy who cost a lil money and was never going to be part of a pirate team that had any desire to compete for the playoffs.
because he’s a trade asset and hardly a terrible one. maybe he’s not great, but he’s not in “get whatever you can for him” category.
Bell has been an underwhelming player outside his hot start to 2019. Its not this hard to find 1B. Nats should have looked elsewhere.
They better keep looking because bell isn’t a 1b.
lol John Blitzer says major overpay for Nats.
So many comments here are silly. Same kind of dumb people who said same crap about Gerrit Cole. He’s a bum never be good… Bell has not been as good as he’s capable of being however his talent like Cole is undeniable. Power from both sides like few in the game. Quality coaching and a better team around him will allow him to flourish. And at under 5 mil with 2 years left… this is a very high character guy- not a cancer by any means.
On the other hand comparing this bush leaguer who gave up 13 runs in 8 innings to Maddox… a yea I won’t hold my breath. And does anyone know the amount of low A pitchers with heat who never make it out of AA? Takes more than that. ALL the risk is assumed by the pirates here and it’s not a good look.
Look it is clear the Bucs are rebuilding but that requires maximum use of your assets. I have a hard time believing that’s the case here.
Anyone that called Cole a bum doesn’t know what they are talking about. Some people may find Cole’s personality abrasive to an extent but the man not only had talent, he put(s) in maximum effort and preparation every single day he took the field. The same can’t be said about Bell. The Pirates traded bell because they knew him best. They knew his personality and his motivations. They clearly believe that his market value now is higher than it ever will be for at least the next 2 years.
Bell was up or down in his production, but he always worked hard.
Cole absolutely dogged it here waiting for his big paycheck.
St1300b…. nailed it… 100%
My bold prediction: Bell will have a great year next year..
By Josh Bell’s personal standards he will have a great year next year. That is because he will receive the highest salary he ever made in his life and his bank account will grow more in one year than it ever has before. By National’s ownership/front office/management/teammates/fans standards, he will have a disappointing year. That will occur because he won’t truly help the team win by any significant margin. That’s just not on his list of important things to do.
I do wonder how big of an impact the surrounding lineup will play with Bell. The Nats lineup as it stands now are certainly not world beaters (minus Soto), but all 4 years Bell was on the pirates he had a terrible supporting cast. He might see some better pitches now
I’m glad someone finally mentioned Soto. Soto is a man that not only has talent but works at his craft, tries hard every day, prepares, and takes pride in what both himself and his team overall does on the field. The same thing cannot be said at all about Joshua Evan Bell.
Keep dreaming
Bucs got multiple upside players- Nats got help at a position of need. I like the deal for both teams. Dare I suggest a sound baseball trade just took place….
The question isn’t the basis of the trade, it’s the players. It’s 3 guys that don’t really move the needle very much. You’ve got 2 unknowns going to a miserable organization for a guy that can’t play defense and hasn’t shown much with the bat.
I only read a couple of comments, so sorry if I’m speaking out of turn, but I’m not exactly sure what folks are going on about… The Nationals got a power bat that has proven to do some damage, still young, and they didn’t really have to give up much. The pitchers going to PIT were considered prospects, but their stats don’t really yell prospects.
Nationals win the trade on this one. The change of scenery is going to do it. I truthfully thought the price tag on Bell would’ve been higher.
I’ve gotten the chance to read a few more comments and a big firm handshake to everyone saying the Nats won this deal. I’m not a Nats fan but I’ll sure be smirking when “the replacement player” has a year like ‘19
Bell has been solid over the three full seasons he played…I too wondered about all the negativity. Good, not great, with potential, and not giving up much.
You aren’t speaking out of turn. This is a poll asking for everyone’s opinion on who got the better end of the deal in this trade (or if it worked out best for both teams). Your opinion is just as valuable as everyone else’s is.
B for the Nats and an A for the Pirates. I think with the lineup protection that Bell gets in Washington, he will produce. From Pitt’s perspective, you managed to capitalize on a player who had a terrific 4 month stretch in 19′ for a solid pitching prospect and a solid lotto pick. Both sides should be happy.
Bell has attitude issues, and in my opinion will never put in the necessary effort to realize his potential. Pittsburgh has made a very wise move that will not be obvious forna few years.
The Pirates 2020 Roberto Clemente Award nominee for his community work has attitude issues? Doesn’t sound right.. Whether he can come close or surpass his 2019 season is yet to be determined but definitely worth these two guys. Neither was rated high on one of the worst rated minor league farm systems. I have seen Crowe pitch in the minors and for the Nats and can’t decide if he is underwhelming or extremely underwhelming. Not a decent big league starter in my eyes. and talking about attitude I read this on “Call to the Pen”, “”Crowe has also dealt with back issues and may have an attitude problem, as he is said to make excuses for any poor performances”. I’m surprised they had any takers on this guy.. Yean will be 20 years old in June and has as yet to pitch above low A ball. He could turn into something but before this trade you couldn’t find many Nats fans that had ever heard of him. There have been tons of guys like Yean and very very few of them make it. For his sake I wish him well but on the surface this looks like a big win for the Nats.
Wil Crowe was one of the best high school pitchers in the nation and in college
Hey Bregman, I’m here before the cheater comments.
Sounds homophobic.
The Pittsburgh Post Gazette has a story up saying that Bell was great in the clubhouse and community as evidenced by Bell being the Pirates nominee for the Roberto Clemente award. Sounds like a couple guys just have a vendetta(s) against Bell. I’m obviously a Nats fan but also open to educating myself, so I read stories about Bell and the prospects to grade the trade. I think both teams attained what they sought out to do: the pirates weren’t competing in the next two years so they got potentially got 13 combined seasons of control for 2 prospects; Nats OTOH have a clear window that won’t last long and needed some punch to the lineup. Hard to say who won the trade now as the prospects need grow. However, attacking a player personally when it doesn’t seem warranted is puzzling, but this bbn is also the comments section, where it’s worse than the dark web. Here’s the link to the PPG story I mentioned: post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2020/12/24/pittsbu…
Well done, CalNats. Thanks for posting that link.
A 37 homer guy for a couple of nobody minor leaguers? Seems pretty fair to me.
I wasn’t expecting something like this. I expected. Gregory Polanco to go first. I gave both teams a B. I don’t know much about who the pirates got back. One I’m guessing is a decent arm. The other is too young to judge how good he could be and will be.
Nats get solid replacement for Ryan Zimmerman that’s why they traded for him.
Polanco is the guy the Pirates need to trade the most because of his contract. Unfortunately his contract is what makes Polanco the “most untradeable” player on the Pirates team. I get your sentiment though. If I were the Pirates, I would be trying much harder to trade Polanco compared to Bell.
F for the Nats.
Unless you’re getting a generational talent at 1st you can find production elsewhere.
Cj Cron would have been a buy low candidate.
But if youre looking for a bat Profar coming off a solid year, La Stella, Hanser Alberto to some degree, Justin Turner, even a position switch for a guy like Eddie Rosario or Kyle Schwarber id think would have been a better investment at 1b.
Time will tell but not fond of the deal for the Nats.
All I know is whenever the Pirates give up a struggling hitter who’s shown talent but struggled I get major Aramis Ramirez flashbacks. Pirates got what they could for a great guy completely fell off a cliff after the all star game. It absolutely wouldn’t surprise me if he finds his groove again away from Pitt like so many stars before him.
Folks, this isn’t hard. Bell seems like a great dude but only a good player. He may bust out in a new environment but right now he looks a lot like Logan Morrison. There are lots of those guys out there.
The return appears good if you look at prospect rankings. However, a 26 year old should probably have a rotation spot locked down. The teenager will hopefully develop into something that closely matches his hype at a time the Bucs plan to be competitive.
Like someone else mentioned, this is not a needle mover for either team unless Bell breaks out and/or the prospects flourish. It can’t be forgotten that Bell only has 2 yrs of control and is a Boras client that would not have received a contract extension with the Pirates. B for each team.
Also, BovineCrab, hurry to sleep Little One. Santa will visit soon!
I give it an all-around “C”. I like Josh but he has something to prove after the past year and a half and I don’t really think the Pirates got much in exchange.
I gave them both a C. Really cant grade trades until a few years later.
The Pirates are screaming from the top of the mountain for all the baseball world to hear…
“Next year’s top pick will be ours, too!!!”
“Also, we’re having the baseball equivalent of a clearance sale right before a K-Mart goes out of business, give us a call. Great prices on questionable merchandise!”
Some of the comments are ridiculous.
Is Bell a stud? No. Is he capable of exceeding the production seen at 1B in Washington? Absolutely. Nats did not give up much to improve their lineup.
They had a very bad start in 2020. They had a slow start in 2019. What was the end result?
I’m sure the Nats are not done yet. They have another move or two up their sleeve and they will have a say in the NL East. Atlanta is the consensus best team but there will be a fight for it. Expect the Nats to be there. Bell is just the first move and it’s an improvement.
Talking baseball with Pirates fans is like talking politics with whoopie goldberg.
given the 2020 bell performance its close to even. take out bell’s 2020 then the nats could be making out.
The pitchers are good potential but still not the pedigree a Bell would’ve gotten if his 2020 wasn’t so bad.
We are going to look back on this one and say wow the Pirates made a great trade here. Josh Bell was a Negative War player for all of 2020. This is to say, any other player in his place would have very little trouble outperforming him. I think the Pirates had to feel good about removing his bat. There is a real possibility Bell continues his poor play with the real possibility he bounces back to a decent bat – is that worth the risk? My guess is he hovers in the middle – shows the power but the K’s are still there. Defense still sucks and he ultimately turns in replacement level stats that leave washington wanting more and that’s IF he bounces back some. Hard pass!
This trade seems mutually beneficial for both teams. WAS is getting old so they need hitters now. Josh Bell is a gamble that could pay off for WAS if he makes a comeback. Whether he does or not, he wont help PIT and just be a waste of payroll. Neither of these prospects are highly rated and won’t crack WAS staff. They may pitch in PIT. This is another salary dump for PIT which sounds bad. Still, PIT could’ve done better..