In a class of his own atop the free agent reliever market, Liam Hendriks is unsurprisingly drawing widespread interest. The White Sox, Mets and Blue Jays have been tied to Hendriks within the past week, and Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Dodgers and Astros have joined them among those pursuing the right-hander. Hendriks is looking for a four-year deal, Passan adds.
Over the past two seasons, Hendriks has arguably been the best reliever in baseball. He’s pitched to a 1.79 ERA across 110.1 relief innings since the start of 2019. In that time, Hendriks struck out 38% of opposing hitters against a 5.7% walk rate and held batters to a .192/.240/.289 slash line. No reliever (minimum 50 innings) has a better park-adjusted ERA, and only Josh Hader, Nick Anderson and Kirby Yates have a higher strikeout minus walk percentage.
Quite obviously, every team in the league would benefit from the addition of Hendriks to the back of the bullpen. The Dodgers’ bullpen was quite good in 2020; nevertheless, that’s the area of the roster that has given the team a bit of trouble in prior seasons and is the easiest spot to add depth as they look to mount another World Series run.
The Astros’ interest in Hendriks also isn’t surprising. Houston’s bullpen was decimated by injuries this past season and looks in need of some outside help. The Astros are facing the potential free agent departures of George Springer, Michael Brantley and Josh Reddick, though, with few obvious in-house replacements beyond Kyle Tucker. It remains to be seen if there’ll be requisite payroll space for the Houston front office to add top-of-the-market relief help while also sufficiently addressing the outfield.
Widespread interest notwithstanding, Hendriks finding a four-year deal at a strong average annual value might prove to be a tough task. He turns 32 in February, which figures to give some teams pause. The early stages of the offseason also haven’t been particularly kind to relievers. Every team in the league passed on Brad Hand’s $10MM option at the start of the offseason. Trevor May settled for a two-year, $15.5MM deal with the Mets; similarly productive relievers (Jeurys Familia and Joe Kelly, for instance) found three-year pacts in past winters. It’s possible Hendriks’ recent brilliance causes teams to view him as an exception, but the general trend seems to be that of a depressed bullpen market. One factor in his favor: the A’s did not issue him a qualifying offer, so the team that signs him will not have to forfeit draft pick compensation.
Black Ace57
Please Phillies, contact this guy. There is no way they cannot make major changes in the bullpen and expect to compete.
Rhyde1990
I would love for the Phillies to get him.
Also, question, since you’re a Phillies fan I presume. Would you trade Zach Wheeler?
phillesfan07
I am a Phillies fan and I would say no, they have a recent bad history of making trades and Wheeler looks like a 3 Era guy which we really need right now he might be overpaid but if we get rid of him I wouldn’t expect Middleton to reinvest that money.
VonPurpleHayes
Wheeler is key to the Phillies rotation and showed Ace potential last season. Would take a lot to trade him IMO.
Black Ace57
I would not trade Wheeler. We have a bunch of expensive holes on the team already with shortstop, catcher, and the bullpen. Trading a good no 2 pitcher doesn’t help. Nola, Wheeler, Efflin are a good enough starting 3. I would only trade him to rebuild, but we are too all in.
rememberthecoop
I see your point. However, the idea is if you traded Wheeler, the return would help them address those other issues you mentioned. That’s the theory, at least. That said, I agree with you. Not a Phillies Phan, just a baseball guy / sportswriter.
phillesfan07
The other thing is that the last big names they traded returns did not turn out so well let’s see we traded Chase Utley for… Darnell Sweeny now that’s a star player!!!! or the who else… Maybe Hunter Pence for… Tommy Joseph now that was a great trade totally not like Joseph is in Japan or Korea now. And maybe the most successful being Jimmy Rollins for Zach Eflin I guess that one was a little better , but overall trading hasn’t gone too well recently.
VonPurpleHayes
Pitching is their number 1 need. One reason for the bullpen’s struggles is the lack of starting depth after the top 3. You don’t want to overuse a bad pen. So IMO trading Wheeler makes their biggest issue even bigger.
JoeBrady
” the idea is if you traded Wheeler, the return would help them address those other issues you mentioned.”
——————————————————————
The problem there is that you cannot fill one hole by creating another hole. They certainly need a closer, plus another RP. But if they trade Wheeler, they’d need to add another good SP.
I think the Phillies have mishandled their roster, but that’s already a sunk cost. The only way out is more spending, and more trading of prospects.
metslvt17
But you’re creating another hole by trading wheeler to address a hole. If the Phillies had pitching depth, that’s one thing. But they signed Wheeler to fix a huge hole in that otherwise subpar rotation.
rememberthecoop
Yeah…I could see that coloring anyone’s perspective. That said, there’s a new sherrif in town.
rememberthecoop
Understood. But note I did wrote “in theory”. However, what if they closed TWO holes by trading him? Sure you create one just by moving him but…again, keep in mind I’m just playing devils advocate. I actually don’t think it’s a good idea to trade Wheeler.
UnknownPoster
Tbf, you’re complaining about the return for guys traded 10 years past their prime and trying to use that as justification for not trading a TOR arm at 29…..
Johhos
No on trading Wheeler,Nola or even Eflin at this point.
Bradley or Hendriks in the back of the pen.
DarkSide830
Eflin MUST be extended soon. the guy is on the verge of a breakout.
phillesfan07
I would say if he is like at a 3-3.5 era around May try, and sign him to like a 4 year 24 million dollar extension if he accepts getting a guy like Eflin with that kind of potential for 6million a year would be disgusting(In a good way) quite frankly.
keysox
I would sign Hand and Hendricks. Trade Wheeler.
phillesfan07
You guys, if we trade wheeler whos starting ????
VonPurpleHayes
Exactly. Wheeler cannot be traded unless you’re rebuilding
phillesfan07
Phillies fans have sat threw a LONG rebuild since 2012 basically ever since I can remember we have been losing more than half of our games and I think Middleton would be almost forced to sell the team if he decides “let’s do another rebuild”
rememberthecoop
I hardly would call a team that signs Bryce Harper to be in a “rebuild”…but I get your point.
ayrbhoy
Keysox- is that you Jerry Dipoto?
DarkSide830
Wheeler really convinved me last year. he’s worth the money. unless they get a crazy return for him he’s gotta stay put.
JoeBrady
Wheeler really convinved me last year.
————————————————————-
To me, this is a huge point. I’d guess that about half the FA’s wash out, and do so pretty quickly. IMHO, it is usually hitters that were one-year wonders, and pitchers because they were hiding or pitching thru injuries.
So, if the average SP is worth $15M, given the injury risk, then an SP who has proven himself, has to be worth a lot more. than the day you signed him.
qidon
What really sucks is that Wheeler would be a long reliever on the Dodgers!
FredMcGriff for the HOF
@Rhyde. Did you miss the Phillies owner rebuking Wheeler trade rumors? I believe it went something like “I wouldn’t trade Wheeler for Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, or Mike Schmidt”……
DarkSide830
if there is going to be a bidding war Id rather go after the Hand/Colome tier instead and maybe get two relievers for only a bit more
jhomeslice
As for the White Sox, I hope they would not consider giving him a 4 year deal. He has all of one full year experience as closer, taking over the job in the middle of 2019. That’s it. 25 is his career high in saves. His career ERA is over 4. That’s not to say he is not a good closer or likely to be successful, but it is not a slam dunk with that small a resume of success. I would prefer Colome for another 1 year deal. No way should they commit to a 4 year deal for a closer, and given that they don’t seem willing to spend money, it seems very unlikely to me that they will sign him.
They knocked him out of game 2 of the playoffs as well. I was not terribly impressed with his poise or performance in a crucial game like that, even if it was just one game. I was not thinking after that game “I wish we had him as our closer”.
I like Hand better myself, just a much longer track record since 2016.
iamhector24
The Phillies are punting and rebuilding. It’s time to realize that and stop worrying about bullpen pieces.
JoeBrady
I doubt it. DD is not a guy you bring in for a rebuild.
Marty McRae
Just announce the Yankees are getting him and get it over with, smh
User 4245925809
Isn’t going to be the NYY. They already owe 38m to just 3 relievers combined next year in Chapman, Britton and Ottavino. NY will spend money on pitching, but it’s gonna be on starters.
flyingblindsquirrel
Wrong NY team.
rememberthecoop
No.
Nick
Lol. The Yankees are currently pretending they don’t have enough money to sign both DJ LeMahieu and also a starting pitcher. I don’t think a big time reliever is in the cards.
bot
Be a nice addition to a diminishing Astros team. They might be the highest bidder pending on how much the A’s signs are worth…
Ully
Are the Blue Jays intrested?
Marty McRae
They already had him, so you could say they were “pre-interested”
Ully
3rd times a charm
rememberthecoop
Good one. They should just be included in every article involving any player.
phillesfan07
This is like the most worthless information NO WAY everyone is interested in the best closer in baseball???? I would never have guessed!
P.S.: This isn’t intended to be a shot at the writers I just feel we don’t really need to know that everyone is interested in Liam Hendricks best closer in baseball I’m sure everyone would be interested.
RunDMC
MIL is interested in trading Devin Williams??
chalk73
Your comment is the most worthless comment on MLBTR.
PS This isn’t intended at you. I just feel that we don’t need to know your critique of MLBTR.
1984wasntamanual
I disagree with you.
garywang00
I totally agree with you, it’s such a waste of time when the posts start with teams are interested in great players. Pretty dumb to even title that.
Post something like “teams are not interested in great players
garywang00
Or “teams are interested in Bartolo colon” now that’s worth mentioning
flyingblindsquirrel
Minor correction: Teams are interested in Big Sexy
bobtillman
Opening Day starter in Boston.
MoRivera 1999
@garywangoo
How can you assume Team A is interested in Great Player X unless it’s reported as such? Just because it makes sense after the fact doesn’t mean it is obvious or necessarily so.
kodion
phillesfan07 et al:
At a guess, I’d say the powers that be at MLBTR aren’t overly concerned about your inability to choose which articles to read.
You might have a case …and them cause to listen …if you were a paying customer
1984wasntamanual
If you’re a paying customer, they already have your money.
phillesfan07
kodIon
Yes, I am well aware they most likely do not care what I have to say yet, in the small chance they do I feel like it is very obvious that all teams would be interested in the best closer in baseball, and quite frankly I don’t care your opinion on what I said it was a post not intended to be replied to more of a statement on how a feel towards this article as a whole.
SalaryCapMyth
Great. That’s how you feel toward the article. But you said WE don’t need to know. If you had said YOU then it would make more since. Of course you can’t say that because if you did it would just make no since on why you are posting on an article that you felt you didn’t need to know.
Look around you and feel the room. We is obviously wrong because by judging from the posts, WE is interested so maybe it’s YOU that shouldn’t post about things you don’t care about.
JoeBrady
LOL! I see the article headline. I know which articles will be more and less RS-centric. I skip the Springer/Bauer articles, and skim thru articles about Hendricks, Hand, etc., and diligently read articles about Wong, Renfroe, JBJ, etc.
Maybe MLBR should preface all articles with trigger warnings ‘This article might not interest you’.
andyg37
The article isn’t just saying “X teams are interested.” It also mentioned he wants a 4 year deal, analysis of the recent reliever market, and putting some of his numbers in a broader context to highlight his talent. If none of that is of any interest to you, what are you even doing reading ANY baseball articles, let alone this one specifically?
bahahahaha
C’mon Dodgers. Let’s get a deal done.
wright1970
Mets please
BasedBall
I would love to see Hendricks in Dodger blue but I was hoping they’d get him on a 2-3 year deal.
Kenley only has 1 more year under contract though so now might be a good time sign replacements.
ricanrob14
I would love to get this guy in dodger blue. But im thinking the dodgers will be looking for a closer on a one year or a 1+ ( team player option ) To give Graderol more experience til hes ready to take over the ninth. So we’re probably looking at R.Osuna, K.Yates, B.Hand or someone similar that would take a short contract to prove himself for a ling term deal with another team. Kinda like Morrow did in 2017 & Treinen last season. Treinen could have earned himself a 3 yr deal somewhere. Thats just my opinion
MetsFan22
If you want to just win and have the best shot go to the dodgers. But if you want to win have less of shot but still a shot and be a part of something special happening? Go to the Mets
Bill M
I’d rather see the Mets use that Hendriks money towards a deal with Bauer and sign a second tier reliever like Holland or Hand
MetsFan22
I’d be happy with that but I have a feeling Bauer wants the angels and is using the Mets for leverage
RunDMC
Appealing to Mets front office to see if we can have this quote inscribed onto the clubhouse leading to the field.
Notre Dame has “Play Like a Champion Today”.
Mets have: “But if you want to win have less of shot but still a shot and be a part of something special happening? Go to the Mets”.
– MetsFan22
MetsFan22
When you’re looking at us from 2nd place and can’t catch up next year. I will be here laughing and looking for you. Obviously the dodgers have the best shot of winning the WS (best team).
1984wasntamanual
I will be actively rooting against the mets just so I can see your excuses.
MetsFan22
Lol you won’t be happy next year
RunDMC
I’m glad you’re excited and looking for me. I liked your line, but I also have a penchant for de-motivational posters with conflicting pictures of wildlife, so thank you for alleviating my case of the Mondays with your flair.
VonPurpleHayes
There will be plenty of excuses. I’m excited for them as well.
larry48
Mets need to figure out how to beat the Braves before planning anything special. Mets defense is not a championship team like. Mets can’t win 1-0,2-1 or 3-2 games there defense will give the games away. Mets have outstanding pitchers, but they are barely 500. Free-agent pitchers want a great defense and good offense the Mets have neither. Get defense then you might get some great free-agent pitchers.
1984wasntamanual
So the best team in baseball isn’t, “something special”? Or do you just mean that it’s already happened.
MetsFan22
I mean a fun exciting team that has a bright future. Just bc you aren’t favorite to win doesn’t mean you can’t. The dodgers do have the best shot. Something in f special is brewing in queens
1984wasntamanual
The Dodgers are a fun, exciting team, with a brighter future.
MetsFan22
Their personalities aren’t as funny fun. But even the future the dodgers are going have to pay people soon. Idk how much longer they’ll stay elite
1984wasntamanual
That’s an opinion I don’t agree with @ the 1st part; as for the second, they have a better system than the mets. Even if they have to pay people and/or let some current contributors go, they’re better positioned to replace them than the mets are. I am not a dodgers’ fan, either.
MetsFan22
They have a better system bc the players do the Mets just came up. Mets would have a better farm if alonso McNeil Rosario Davis smith Peterson Nimmo gimenez all played in the minors lol.
1984wasntamanual
You do understand that logic works for the dodgers as well, right? They’re a better MLB team and have a better minor league system. Please though, continue to make asinine arguments, it’s fun to see the gymnastics
MetsFan22
Bellinger Betts seager buehler are about get paid half of the payroll. Kershaw is going to be old soon. (Already we’ll past his prime) You better hope the other player who come up do good… good luck. Mets best players are cheap for 4-5 more years
1984wasntamanual
Buehler isn’t a free agent til 2025, Bellinger 2024. Yeah, they’ll make a good amount in arb, but so will the mets players if they are good. Every team has to hope the other players that come up do well…just like the Mets have to hope their players that came up, do well.
Do you have any real arguments?
MetsFan22
Ok but in 2-3 years you have no idea that the dodgers will be better. The only things we know for sure is that the dodgers had a better roster last year
A'sfaninLondonUK
@metsfan22
I’ve got a soft spot the Mets but given – in the latest farm rankings I could find from Mar 2020, and given the lack of a MiLB season- I can’t see how the rankings would have changed too much.
In 3rd – the LA Dodgers farm system
in 20th – the Mets farm system.
So barely a gnat’s todger in between the two of them.
I understand the optimism over the Steve Cohen acquisition of the ball club & I appreciate the aims are the same – the Dodgers have built the best team in baseball with nearly the best farm system which is quite an achievement. The Mets F/O aren’t going to be able to replicate that success just by bunging $150 million AAV at six or eight free agents. Wouldn’t really be Mr Cohen’s modus operandi?
Good luck though – I’m sure it’ll be more fun in the long term than the dreaded Wilpons who I’m sure are on the horizon with a bag (ok trainload) of swag getting the hell out of Dodge….
MetsFan22
No I agree dodgers farm is way better. But it’s also way better bc it has more depth. I would say both top 7 prospects are not far off. Anyways I’m just saying just bc their farm is better it doesn’t mean that they will be better in 2-3 years. Marlins have an amazing farm I’m not scared about them.
JoeBrady
You don’t have to be afraid of them, but it is probably useful to acknowledge that they were better than you last year.
Your rotation consists of a great arm, who has only won 25 games in the past 2+ years, another good arm who hasn’t pitched in a year, a 3rd SP who is a borderline rookie, a guy coming off TJS, and a TBD.
UnknownPoster
Dude the Mets top 5 don’t make the Dodgers top 15
larry48
Friedman has a long-range plan, they will resign at different lengths Seager, Bellinger, Beuhler, and Muncy. They have a lot of players in the pipeline. Catchers will be traded or go free agents(Barnes). I see Dodgers each year signing a few players, Dodgers only have 76,000,000 for 2022 and 48,000,000 in 2023. with Betts in there.
CommentsSectionCommenter
To MetsFan22 re: your LAD/NYM comparisons:
Don’t be ridiculous. Look at the last decade of homegrown-talent success on both teams; the Mets are nowhere near the Dodgers. Look at the two farm systems right now; the Mets are nowhere near the Dodgers. Look at the wealth of young, controllable talent on the 40-man; the Mets are nowhere near the Dodgers.
I get that you’re a fan, but let’s shoot for higher than “silly”…..
YankeesBleacherCreature
So other teams winning the WS isn’t special to their fanbase? What an arrogant and petty statement to make.
MetsFan22
You guys are confused. It’s not just winning.. the Mets being good is good for baseball. The Mets also have personalities that if the Mets are good(probably will be) they could put people in their seats to watch them. Dodgers do too. But the Mets will be newer. Mets being good will make ratings go up. Tigers being good is just another good team
Loling @ you
Metsfan22 pure delusion lol, dodgers have shown they are a better run team than mets for a couple decades now. Draft far better and currently dodgers just made 3 ws appearances and won 1 (2 if you count the robbery with stros) Friedman has shown the ability to shift funds around. You mention dodgers needing to pay everyone without mentioning that turner is a free agent this year, next year kershaw and kenley are both free agents as is seager. Kenley is gone and if turner is to expensive he is also gone freeing up cash to resign seager. I think in the back of Friedman’s head he will deal bellinger before his deal expires and get a huge hall for him. Kershaw is most likely back at a discounted rate as he starts to decline, can see a 3/4 year deal 15/22 million range. Also worth mentioning price falls of books in a year or 2. Dodgers manage books well, while drafting and international signings play a huge role in keeping farm one of the best.
MetsFan22
Hey buddy. How do you think the dodgers where so much better run??? Do you think the wilpons had nothing to do with that?
YankeesBleacherCreature
No. You seem to be the only one confused that MLB exists for the sake of the Mets and its attendance and ratings. You also appear to have an inferiority complex regarding the Dodgers.
ricanrob14
Mets need to worry about the Marlins, Phillies, Braves and Nats before they even think Dodgers lmao
UnknownPoster
Go to the most dysfunctional franchise in the last decade of baseball, or join a potential dynasty!
What a pitch
Boe Jiden
It’ll be a 4-5 years before we can actually compare the Mets and Dodgers. Dodgers came out of a similar situation in 2012 when McCourt finally got ousted and replaced by a competent ownership group. Cohen appears to be very competent. We’ll see in 4-5 years how these teams stack up once the current Mets regime has had time to put its stamp on team.
The issue here is a Mets fan saying the Mets are more exciting than the Dodgers. What a very objective opinion. The Dodgers have shown on the national stage year after year a team that is extremely fun. Bellinger, Buehler, Muncy, Betts are all fun talents, and the bullpen is full of fiery fun guys too. The team raves about Brusdar Graterol, he was mentioned as perhaps the most popular guy in the clubhouse.
Hendriks can sign wherever he wants. But to say he should sign with the Mets because they are more fun reeks of homerism.
JoeBrady
We’ll see in 4-5 years how these teams stack up once the current Mets regime has had time to put its stamp on team.
————————————————————-
This is what annoys me about NYM fans this year. Two things actually.
The first is too many of them are comparing themselves to the LAD. The first step should be to compare yourselves to the Phillies. You finished last in your division. You finished 20th overall, much closer to the #1 draft pick than to the LAD.
The second thing is the ‘come back to me in 4-5 years’ theme. It could be true, but then, it could be true about all 30 teams. And it is not like they have a good young team, with two top-10 talents coming up.
MetsFan22
The Mets will be way closer to the dodgers than the Phillies next year.
Jordan 5
I can’t see the dodgers going 4 years after signing Kelly to a 3 year deal that hasn’t been favorable or should i say what they were hoping to get out of him. Also with jansens contract. 4 years for a reliever is scary because the longer the contract the more chance you won’t have the same results in the 3rd and 4th year. Someone will give him the 4 and overpay to get him.
underdog
Jansen is a FA after this coming season though (and unlikely to be back with them unless it’s on a cheap deal because he continued to decline) so they certainly could afford to take that risk. I do agree that Friedman’s FO has generally not shown a willingness to go long term with relievers, smartly so, Kelly is as long as they have gone, so it would be a big change for them to go 4 and highly unlikely.
Dutch Vander Linde
This guy is crazy. Nobody is gonna give a reliever a 4 year deal.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@battup
I’ve got a Mr Kimbrel & a Mr Melancon lounging on giant piles of cash in the meeting room, sir….
SalaryCapMyth
This is a much different market than when those two signed their contracts.
CalcetinesBlancos
Those guys are part of the reason lol.
garywang00
I don’t get it. Why is everyone painting him as one of the great relievers? Yes he has had a great 1.3 season as a reliever. Look at his track records, and the guy has m over 4 in era as a reliever and he is going to get a four year 50+ mm contract ? SMH ….
MetsFan22
Why do people look at the past. Did the same thing for mccan lol. You guys need to realize people get better as the age bc the discover things. Hendricks is elite and anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong
stymeedone
Probably said the same about Diaz. Relievers are volatile, or hasn’t Diaz taught you that?
MetsFan22
Diaz also did great last year. He did elite. So Chapman isn’t elite bc relievers are volatile ?? Cmon man.. everyone knows they are. Doesn’t change the fact that Hendricks is elite
whyhayzee
Buy low sell high doesn’t apply to free agency.
It’s overspend and clean up later.
rememberthecoop
3 years, 45 mil should get it done after the initial ask of 4 years turns more realistic. However, all it takes is one team to offer a 4th year. But 15M per should be enough.
DakotaExpert
Get him TWINS. More important than Cruz. Trade Buxton for controllable starter.
rememberthecoop
No way I’m offering any reliever a 4-year deal, much less a max effort 32 year old. No matter how great he has been, I’m paying for future performance, not the past. Then again, if someone offers that 4th year, then I would lose out. Like everything in life, it’s a tradeoff & a choice one has to make.
ASapsFables
If soon to be 32-year old free agent closer Liam Hendriks is insisting on a four-year deal, some of his suitors may pivot toward the trade market. The Brewers are said to be listening on offers for Josh Hader who is five years younger and controllable through arbitration for three more years.
Hader may cost an arm and a leg in assets but his annual arbitration salary figures to be substantially less than the AAV Hendriks is seeking.
ChiSoxCity
You you’d rather give up “an arm and a leg” in a trade for Hader rather than give Hendriks ONE extra year. That makes no sense. Very few teams are in a position to follow your advice.
BlueSkies_LA
The good news is Hader comes with two of both, so right away that puts you up on the deal.
ASapsFables
There are a number of advantages in trading for Josh Hader over signing Liam Hendriks. Money and age are just two of them. Despite being 5-years younger, Hader also has a significantly better track record than Hendriks as a dominating relief pitcher. Hader is just entering his ‘prime’ while Hendriks as a 10-year veteran might be on the downside of his despite his two best seasons coming in 2019 and 2020.
The White Sox could also be on the those “few teams” to pull the trigger on a Hader trade. That said, as a White Sox fan I would be very surprised if they traded for Hader over signing Hendriks for any number of reasons including the fact that they already have 3 solid lefty arms in their 2021 bullpen plans including Aaron Bummer, Jace Fry and rookie phenom Garrett Crochet. Of course with such a surplus they could theoretically be in a position to deal one of them to Milwaukee as part of a bigger package to obtain Hader. Crochet would be off limits but Bummer might be a good starting point for a potential deal, no?
ASapsFables
Whether the White Sox pursue a FA closer like Liam Hendriks or trade for one like Josh Hader, my preference would be for them to get one who dominates with K’s and misses more bats. Nothing against Alex Colomé who did an excellent job the past two seasons, but I would feel better with a power arm finishing games.
I’ve been a Chicago baseball fan since the early 1960’s. I’ve seen a host of quality closers on the south side of town. They include knuckleball specialists like Hoyt Wilhelm and Bob Locker, a changeup master in Keith Foulke and most recently Alex Colomé who throws an assortment of effective pitches without a dominating one. I’ve also seen some great flamethrowers including Goose Gossage, Bobbie Thigpen and Bobby Jenks.
Call me old fashioned but my preference of a closer on a championship team would be the power arm guys. The White Sox had Jenks in 2005 while the Cubs featured Aroldis Chapman in 2016.
Ironically, that 2005 White Sox championship team featured a rotation more known for finesse and guile than power with Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, José Contreras and ‘El Duque’ Hernández. Hard throwing Jenks was a nice compliment to close out most of those games. I see a similarity in the current White Sox rotation that features two cunning veterans in Dallas Keuchel and Lance Lynn among a top-3 that also includes power ace Lucas Giolito. I also believe the White Sox will add another crafty veteran like Jose Quintana this offseason and round out their opening day rotation with hard throwing but erratic Dylan Cease before eventually promoting Michael Kopech and his 100 mph heater. I’d just assume see another power arm finishing off games in 2021 and beyond and utilize a finesse reliever like Colomé earlier in a contest.
JoeBrady
I’m not sure why the Mets would be interested in Hendricks. They already have Diaz, and have a hole(s) in the rotation, and maybe need to revamp their OF alignment to add a legit CF. And maybe add 1-2 RPs, but not of the $10M variety.
In addition, pushing Diaz into a setup would be dangerous after what happened in 2019. Sometimes you have t0 gamble that, what is working, will continue to work. And then focus on what is defintely not working.
BartoloHRball
The Mets need a real CF, but it’s worth noting they had the 2nd highest WAR for a team OF in the Majors for 2020. LAD was first w Betts, Bellinger, & Seager. Nimmo was the Met’s CF and he was athletic enough to not be a butcher, but a true CF who can hit is hard to find these days. The Mets had Conforto in RF and Dom Smith in LF. It’s understandable why they want Springer in CF, but even if they didn’t get a true CF, the Mets can mash in the OF and their defense is decent enough.
bellybombs
Seager plays shortstop.
CalcetinesBlancos
Anyone saying signing this guy for four years isn’t risky doesn’t watch much MLB. Relievers are generally a bad idea to sign long-term unless you’re getting a big discount. But if you’re a team thinking that you’re going to be contending for the next 2-3 years, just add that fourth year on to your offer and call it a day. Hendriks being able to repeat his 2019 results in 2020 with everything going on shows me that he is able to focus and block out the noise.
I’m still shocked that nobody picked up that Hand option. Seems like a win-now move with zero commitment required.
ASapsFables
There were some underlying reasons for teams passing on Brad Hand at $10MM. Despite a solid 2020, Hand showed a decrease in velocity. Many teams also view the offseason as a buyer’s market for relief pitchers with so many good one available, especially in the midst of financial restraint in the wake of the pandemic which still figures to have an impact the 2021 season despite the promise of the new vaccines.
Stat
One year doesn’t seem like a bad gamble though. I agree closers for top dollar are rarely a good investment. Before Hendriks took over as closer there was a period that Treinen was the best in the game and looked primed to get paid. Plenty of examples of it not working out like Kimbrel, Davis etc
ASapsFables
Chances are the team that ultimately signs Brad Hand will do so with a 2-year contract. It’s also a near certainty that the AAV of the deal will be well south of $10MM. It’s another reason why every team passed on Hand when the Indians placed him on outright waivers before Cleveland declined his 2021 team option two days later.
CalcetinesBlancos
Good examples. But yeah, one year! I just was truly shocked that no team was willing to take on that Hand contract for one year. If Hendriks ends up finding a 4 year contract with a decent AAV it will look even weirder in hindsight.
I actually think that Bauer concept of going year to year is genius. Imagine how many teams would join your bidding if you weren’t asking any of the smaller teams to make a long-term commitment that could potentially crush them. You might even get a team like the Rays/A’s to join in.
empirejim
I can understand why a rookie trying to make a name, or a vet hoping to hold on for another season would tie himself to the Astros. I cant see any reason for a top free agent hitch his horse to that sullied organization. Wasted years for any that do.
mccourtscorpse
really can’t see any way the Dodgers are in at 4 years. can’t see anyone in tbh. if Hand didn’t get picked up for $10mil my guess is he isn’t going to do much better than 2/20 in this market.
msqboxer
Heard the CWS moved on. Probably the 3-4 year request and if anyone follows sabermetrics and fangraphs you’d run away also. If you match Hendriks against Colome since they are the same age you’d see a stark difference in GB%Rate and BABIP that shows Colome much better and Hendriks benefited from being in the A’s massive park.
ASapsFables
I like the notion of Liam Hendriks as the White Sox closer over Alex Colomé. That said, I completely understand their apprehension in signing a soon to be 32-year reliever to a four-year deal when a similarly aged Colomé could probably be had for half those years and at a lower AAV.
It’s not as if the White Sox don’t have an abundance of internal closer options either with southpaw’s Aaron Bummer and rookie phenom Garrett Crochet, along with the young right-handed power arms of Codi Heuer and Matt Foster who each made impressive MLB debuts this past season. A long term contract for any free agent closer would seem unnecessary with the added possibility of SP’s Micheal Kopech, Dylan Cease or Reynaldo Lopez also being added to the mix with rotation struggles or due to system depth.
ASapsFables
Btw: Where did you hear about the White Sox moving on from Liam Hendriks? Just today, highly reputable ESPN baseball writer Jeff Passan wrote a piece (espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/30514639/what-jeff…) that featured Hendriks among others. It was an ESPN+ article which requires a subscription which I have. Here is the lead paragraph: As the top of the market takes its sweet time developing, the interest in closer Liam Hendriks, far and away the best reliever available, is leading to an interesting array of teams ready to bid on his services, according to sources. The Chicago White Sox have been linked to Hendriks as his primary suitor, but a number of other teams in search of a closer — or simply more bullpen help — are prepared to pounce.
stevep-4
Yes @AaronSapoznik
cwsOverhaul
Hope you heard right. Rather they get Colome for cheaper and less duration. He is poised…..and Crochet/Kopech in ’21 are electric options. Spend less on closer in order to get a better lefty bat and short-term veteran starter. Polarizing opinions, but hunch that Schwarber would thrive IF they can land him on a 1yr deal.
ASapsFables
The ideal cap to the White Sox offseason would be signing big armed free agent closer Liam Hendriks, a veteran lefty like James Paxton or Jose Quintana to help balance out a rotation that currently only has southpaw Dallas Keuchel, along with adding high BA/OBP contact bat Michael Brantley to mix and match in the LF/DH roles.
That said, I’m good with the more cost efficient and perhaps most sensible option of re-signing Alex Colomé as their closer along with adding the high OBP/SLG lefty bat of Kyle Schwarber to the White Sox LF/DH mix. Chances are decent that both Paxton or ‘Q’ can be had for short term deals, perhaps one year guaranteed with an added option year. It’s a near certainty that Hendriks will garner at least a 3-year contract. Bradley is likely to sign a 2-year deal while Schwarber could potentially be inked to a one-year make-good contract in what would have been his final season of arbitration eligibility.
Idioms for Idiots
@Aaron Sapoznik
I’m not against anything you’re saying about finishing this team up this Winter, because what you bring up could very well be the right thing. I have a differing view on this, and it will be interesting to see what direction the Sox end up taking. That being said, another well-thought-out post by you.
Personally I think they’re done on offense. The only thing that would change is if Vaughn isn’t deemed ready at any point this season. We will know how close he is in Hahn’s eyes if they go after a DH or not.
Pitching, I’d only add to the rotation if he’s a TOR, otherwise I’d go with Cease and Kopech at #4 and #5. And if Kopech needs a little extra in AAA in April, then stick Lopez at #5 until Kopech comes up after a few weeks.
Bullpen, Hendriks is fine if he lays off the demands by a year or two, otherwise, there’s enough quality arms to stick as a closer or table-setter (if Bummer is called on to close all year).
Right now as we speak, this is generally what the 26-man looks like (at least the way I see it):
C Grandal
1B Abreu
2B Madrigal
3B Yoan
SS TA
LF Eloy
CF Robert
RF Eaton
DH Vaughn
BACKUP C Collins (also DH)
BENCH UTIL Leury
4th OF Engel
BENCH IF Mendick
ROTATION
1 Giolito
2 Keuchel
3 Lynn
4 Cease
5 Kopech
BULLPEN (no particular order)
CL Bummer (for now)
2 Heuer
3 Foster
4 Marshall
5 Lambert
6 Lopez
7 Fry (LHP)
8 Crochet (LHP)
(there’s also Cordero, Ruiz, Emilio Vargas, Tyler Johnson, and Burdi as other possibilities).
I think if they get a closer or table-setter, they’re done. If they can somehow get another TOR, then great. Otherwise, I don’t want them to add to the rotation, at least not until July, when we see how the season has unfolded.
Greg Searles
Every team is interested in Liam Hendricks
BartoloHRball
Sure Liam Hendricks is interesting to most every team, but if teams didn’t want him for 1/$10m, it’s hard to see teams offering more than 2/$16m-$18m this off-season. The Mets offered Trevor May 2/$15m, which may or may not be an overpay, but I think it ends up being a good deal. I would love the Mets to offer a similar deal to Hendricks, who could spark a bidding war, but pricey BP arms are a harder sell than most other positions.
ChiSoxCity
As a Sox fan and a baseball fan in general, it would be nice to see some of the top free agents go to teams that actually need them for a change. The Dodgers get mentioned for every notable free agent and potential trade out there right now. We really need a salary to bring some semblance of parity to the league.
dodgers702
Just because Dodgers get mentioned does not mean they will sign every FA out there. or trade for every big player. People really got to stop taking these rumors serious. as most of them never pan out or become a reality.
UnknownPoster
So because agents claim the dodgers are interested in a free agent, although they haven’t *ever* signed the top FA under Friedman… there needs to be a salary cap?
Do you understand negotiations? Do you not comprehend why the dodgers are constantly mentioned?
The dodgers call and ask for the price range. 5 minute call. Hendricks camp leaks LAD is interested. Now Hendricks may get SD or ATL or NYY or CHW or Bos or whoever to jump in the market, or up their bid perhaps, to keep him from LA.
You’re on a rumor site complaining that rumors exist tho man. It’s part of the game and a cap changes nothing but suppress the earning power of the athletes.
Doesn’t change leaks. If anything it would increase them, because guys are competing for fewer limited dollars
Boe Jiden
Yea, real bad take Chisox. Dodgers don’t win because they gobble up free agents. They win because they draft and develop better than anyone in baseball. Their entire rotation for the playoffs was home grown. Maybe don’t say things in the future if you don’t know what you are talking about.
As mentioned by others, dodgers get brought up on every free agent because it’s good for the player and agent.
Do better.
Boe Jiden
It’s also funny seeing you complain considering white sox have traded for and signed big free agents in the last two years. White Sox are routinely mentioned a spot for lots of players as well. Just a really bad take.
ChiSoxCity
The White Sox didn’t get any top free agents, so your point isn’t relevant. Grandal and Keuchel are nice players, but they aren’t elite.
Boe Jiden
And what elite free agents have the dodgers signed? Grandal and Keuchel are certainly both more high profile than the Dodgers last free agent signings in Pollock and Kelly. It’s completely ridiculous to just moan and cry about how we need a salary cap because of the Dodgers. White Sox are doing an excellent job of developing young talent right now. Their ownership deserves to retain as many of the young studs they have if they want. Pretty sure in a few years if the White Sox are competing for a WS every year because of their young talent they have retained you won’t be signing the same tune. Again, just a terrible take.
ChiSoxCity
Again, you miss the point. You focus on the White Sox. I’m talking about the entire league. Too many teams with no star players to allow one or two teams to get all the top players available. If I wanted to waste my time watching a rigged sport, I’d watch the NBA. That’s what major league baseball has become. If you don’t thing the Dodgers will continue to add star players, you’re very naive. The have Betts, and they will get atleast one of Lindor, Arenado/Story or Bauer. Why not the White Sox, Padres, Rockies, or Blue Jays? Why not the Pirates? Why did they gave to leave Cleveland in the first place?
Cap & Crunch
We need a floor and better rev sharing more than a cap ill agree there-
Baseball would be keen to mock basketball with its hard cap/bird rights-
You have a hard cap but can go over to sign any homegrown players
Im a Dodger fan, the No cap benefits me, but if I had my way, Id have a hard cap 100%.
Funny thing is I think Friedman would agree, I know he can cross it whenever he wants (and prolly has blank signed checks in his drawer), but I think the TB man is still in him where he prides himself more at winning a World Series on a 180$ budget than a 250$ budget as I presume most people in the room would as well-
Now we’ve got too much homegrown too feed so it will be 200 not 180 but my guess right now is we dont cross the CBT line for 3-4 years until it becomes belli/buehler time. It wont be because Fried cant go past it, will be because he doesn’t want to – Gotta respect that in a way
UnknownPoster
All hard caps accomplish, even with side clauses, is limiting earning potential of the players
I’m fully in support of a floor. Fine. But we already see most owners use a line they *can* cross as a hard cap, why would anyone assume that a truly hard cap is going to improve anything? How does limiting someone like Mookie Betts’s earning potential help keep the market fair, for players?
JoeBrady
Too many teams with no star players to allow one or two teams to get all the top players available.
———————————————————————–
1-You can’t do anything about the market sizes, and the players will never agree to floors and ceilings.
2-It doesn’t make that much difference. If you don’t develop a farm, there isn’t enough money in the world to make you a good team thru free agency.
3-You seem to be fixated on the Dodgers. The reason why the LAD are the best franchise in BB is because they are smarter than anyone else. Their only pure FAs are Pollock ($14M), Treinen ($10M), & Kelly ($8). That’s $32M.
Meanwhile, the WS spent $49M on Grandal, Kuechel & EE.
Maybe you need to start with figuring out why the WS finished 24th in attendance.
KD17
Salary cap is a misleading comment. A salary cap creates ideas of restricted free agency and things that benefit ownership. What’s needed is a fair profits distribution system with each team getting the exact same amount of money each year to spend on their players. There are a billion sources of revenue in baseball and together they define the wealth of the industry. If this was not a sport, then NYY spending $300M and Miami spending $50M or less would be a supply and demand explanation to the deviation but this is a sport that should have been built with fair competition. The Yankees have prevented that for over 100 years and the half dozen big market budget clubs blur whether the industry is a monopoly or oligopoly. The second highest spending team in 2020 behind the Yankees spent 2/3 the funds the Yankees did (forget about COVID adjustments for the moment). The bottom team spent 1/4 of the funds spent by the big market non-Yankee teams. It’s always going to be hard to have fair competition with the field so skewed in favor of the few big market teams.
The Dodgers may not have spent a lot under Friedman for free agents but who cares their payroll is still 3 to 4 times that of the small market teams. Should KC or TB be able to beat LAD or NYY? No. TB’s accomplishments are never truly recognized. They are the David going against the Goliath and competing. Most other organizations can’t make that happen and frankly the only times TB has won they did spend big so the small market team has next to no chance to win. Most fans don’t care unless you are small market fan and if you complain there are a million big market fans wanting things to stay the same and drowning your voice.
Sports should not maintain the market structure of normal industries because it eliminates competitive balance. Sports should be designed and run in a bubble that protects all the participants from competitive imbalance from a financial perspective. Sports were based on the ideal that the best coached team, the best prepared team and the most talented team should win, not the richest team. How different would baseball be if every team got a payroll equal to 1/30th of the available payroll spending in the industry for the profits of the industry to be maximized and the owners and players split the profits evenly? This would fix lots of problems. No owners presenting non-competitive teams so they can bag a higher percentage of their profits. No team spending $300M while another spends $35M. Cheaters would be banned for a year on offense one and life on offense two. That includes owners, front office, players and managers/coaches.
Proposals from the past for a salary cap are archaic. Caps and free agency don’t really work well in sports. The industry needs to be run in a bubble or like a board game where everything is fair and the best team wins based on skill, luck, talent and performance.
The Friedman’s of the world would benefit from the alternate structure but not nearly as much as they do today by outspending 75% of the other teams. A level playing field would help us understand whether Friedman or Dombrowski is the better GM. Whether Kevin Cash or Joe Maddon is the better manager and whether the TB way of player development is better than the NYY way of player development. Today it’s all about money and we can all be thankful that teams like TB can compete with those spending so much more but there could easily come a time that NYY and LAD are the only teams competing for rings. The NYY did it from the time they bought Ruth until 1962. It could happen again and if it does, how long will it take for the public to wake up and demand competitive balance in sports?
I’ve lived in big markets my entire life and have seen many championships but that really shouldn’t be the way the sports world works. Friedman is considered an outstanding GM because he won thanks to his protege giving him Mookie. I would like to see how he would do if the playing field was level.
ASapsFables
Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner of the large market Chicago White Sox tried unsuccessfully to do many of the things you suggest back in the mid-1990’s when MLB was going through all kinds of labor unrest that resulted in multiple shortened seasons and the loss of the 1994 postseason. He lost out in his attempt to rally the smaller and mid-market teams against the George Steinbrenner led faction that did not want a salary cap. Of course, Reinsdorf is also the owner of the NBA Bulls in a league that does have a salary cap.
Because of the lost 1994 playoffs, the White Sox missed out on a great opportunity to compete for a World Series title. They had a very strong team that was leading the AL Central when the season was cancelled in August. This was coming off of a first place finish in the AL West in 1993 when they were defeated by the eventual world champion Toronto Blue Jays in the ALCS.
MLB lost a lot of credibility with baseball and sports fans during that time frame. The ‘winners’ were the MLBPA who pretty much wound up with everything they struck for including continued free agency and no salary cap. Steinbrenner and the other big market owners were able to keep the status quo enabling them to continue trying to outspend the field for championships.
In the wake of the labor unrest, MLB orchestrated a new era of juiced balls and shrunken strike zones in order to try and win back fans with more offense. This culminated in the famous ‘Chicks Dig the Long Ball” Nike commercial and subsequent ‘campaign’. All the while, MLB and the MLBPA turned a blind eye to pervasive steroid abuse that also led to more HR’s and offense.
The one problem with your suggestion, especially compared to the NFL is where the sport’s revenue is generated. The NFL has huge national TV contracts with multiple networks that generates a significant amount of their revenue, something that can be easily and equally divided among its 32 teams. MLB also has national TV deals but nothing like the NFL. Most broadcast revenues are generated locally with the larger market teams having a huge advantage over the smaller ones. Those large market owners haven’t been willing to share those revenues evenly with their smaller market brethren.
The MLBPA has also been reluctant to share revenues because they seem unwilling to also share the risk the owners incur in being baseballs caretakers. They have too many good things going their way with free agency, arbitration and no salary cap and would just assume keep it that way. The owners have also been reluctant to open their books to the players
I too am a proponent of a salary cap for MLB while also being a fan who lives in a big market like Chicago, one who has supported both teams equally since the early 1960’s. That salary cap needs to be approached a bit differently than those in the other professional sports because of the difference in local revenue streams. The cap I support would be more stringent than the current soft luxury tax ‘cap’ the sport currently has. The maximum spending cap would also come with a minimum spending floor, something that could help do away with the problem of ‘tanking’ in baseball. I believe the owners could ‘persuade’ the MLBPA into the concept of a salary cap by offering ‘carrots’ to the union that include increased jobs through larger active and reserve rosters along with controlled future expansion. There are a number of other ‘incentives’ to motivate the players as well, many of which would also be a boon to the owners, the fans and the sport itself. They would include technical improvements like implementation of the laser strike zone that would make MLB the only professional sport that is virtually free of judgement calls, where each game would be decided by the players competing and not by poor or erratic officiating.
KD17
Aaron, great reply. You articulated the problem very well and I agree with you. My vision is more of an out of the box approach to equality. IF baseball is the industry and the product then the idea of franchises needs to be contained under the Industry umbrella not independent owners. Owners would all make money but the change would be for the good of the sport not the good or bad of any specific person or franchise. The Yankees and Cubs have television revenues that most teams don’t have. Rather than that being an advantage for the franchise it needs to be an advantage for the industry and MLB needs to work to improve revenues by adding more YES and WGN contracts in other cities.
With all the new streaming of games, this is the perfect time to encapsulate the industry as the profit center not the franchises. The bigger the profit pot, the bigger the bonuses to successful team owners, front offices, managers, coaches and players. If the industry net profit grows by 20% then everyone’s take home grows by 20%. If the profits fall, everyone’s compensation is impacted. Defining an exact amount of money for each team to spend each year is even more fair than the salary cap situations that have existed in other sports. The playing field becomes leveled and the talents of an organization will tend to dictate the success and the rewards of that organization. If a Friedman is a genius or DD is a genius at their jobs it will show by a higher success rate from their talents not payroll advantages.
I recognize my suggestion is more than most fans or owners can handle when it comes to change but something needs to be done because I’m sure the last 20 years has really made baseball vulnerable because the core fans that simply love the game are watching the rules change in ways to satisfy the modern fair weather fans. Entertainment used to come from watching the sport not changing the sport to improve action, hit more home runs or throw/hit the ball faster than any time in the past. If the only way to grow the profits is to have juiced baseballs and to cater to the huge market teams on all media facilities like ESPN and MLB channel, then the industry greed will consume the game at some point leaving fans to ask how we got so far away from the original sport and question whether it’s worth supporting going forward with so many other better alternatives out there.
Long term, if people are to stay with baseball as their sport they need to see competitive balance. The irony of the situation is that big markets like NY and LA need to count on their outlying areas to maintain baseball fans since the inner cities are moving to basketball, football and even soccer. Where does that leave all the territory outside the physical areas of the major cities with respect to baseball growth? Fading interest at best. Rural America and small city America needs competitive balance to give a glimmer of hope to EVERYONE. Each team needs to have a chance to win a ring. Without competitive teams, the industry will continue to be about a couple of huge markets and a half dozen large markets and a bunch of other teams who are meaningless.
A new direction is needed to pull us out of the downward spiral that has led to the major baseball networks to only focusing on what free agent will move to which big market team and what velocity a ball is hit or thrown. So much of the fundamentals of the game have been diverted by the media to grab sensational headlines based on launch angle, exit velocity and spin rate. Concepts like team, playing with integrity, and enjoying the journey for the player have all been superseded by discussions of WAR and the corresponding value of a player based on a complex series of averages that may or may not truly apply. Modern metrics is now driving the baseball discussions rather than the game itself. It’s like talking about revolutions per second of a car engine rather than the ride, handling, safety or durability of the car. We jumped the fan base to include more numbers people but how much of that gain was off set by the loss of hardcore fans? Yes, the hardcore fans always stay but they won’t generate the next generation of hardcore fans like they have in the past. In the meantime, we have yet to see if the new “numbers” fans will generate loyalty to the sport like the real baseball fans have in the past.
For now, all we can do is hope more Davids come out of the small market teams and compete against either of the Goliaths from NY and LA.
Aaron, your steroid reference suggests we may have a fun discussion in the future about whether steroids actually impacted anything. I believe the variances in the ball have created all the dramatic fluctuations HRs over time. I have charts showing results from 1871 through 2019 that indicate the ball is directly responsible for home run fluctuations and that no abnormal fluctuations were a result of steroids. It was a weak commissioner’s excuse for why home runs were growing and he used it to hang out players of the era and win a spot in the HOF. Selig screwed an entire generation of players by misdirecting the focus from the erratic manufacturing process of the baseballs to taking steroids. There is no data that supports his premise if you normalize HRs based on the changes in the baseball from year to year.
ASapsFables
Excellent discussion. I also like your take on the impact steroids had on offense versus ball variances and of course the shrinking strike zone. We all know that many pitchers were also doing PED’s which logic dictates should have a cancelling effect with similar abuse by hitters. Conversely, ‘juiced’ balls and smaller strike zones only benefited the hitters. As recently as 2019, pitchers were complaining about the seams of the baseball being less pronounced, resulting in diminished movement on their fastballs and less break on their offspeed pitches.
KD17
Exactly! FYI… the ball’s juice factor was never a discussion in the 80s when McGwire broke onto the scene and hit 49 home runs. Since Canseco declared himself and McGwire steroid users (not illegal at that time) the baseball world mistook the jump in HRs as steroid use rather than the true reason, an extremely juiced baseball. The ball’s juice factor can be measured by the HRS/GAME/YEAR. Going back to 1871 there have been three jumps in the plateau of HR production: 1 – in the 1920s when the ball was changed from the dead ball to the live ball, 2 – in the 1950s aka the Mays, Mantle and Aaron’s era which saw the greatest proliferation of HRs in the history of baseball. Yes, the players of the 1950s enjoyed a percentage growth in juice nearly double that of the 1990s!!
In fact, the ball dramatically changed in 1963 ending the great HR era of the 1950s. The peak year, 1961, was the year that Maris and Mantle took a run at Babe Ruth’s record and Maris beat it. No small coincidence that the juice in the ball was the greatest in history and was not surpassed until McGwire graduated to the MLB in 1987 and created the myth of the steroid era. HRS/GAME in 1961 peaked at 0.95 and in 1963 fell back to 0.84 more than a 10% decline. From 1963 to 1987 the ball fluctuated at a much lower plateau than the 50s with 1968 and 1981 being two lows (0.61 and 0.64) that had not existed since WWII years. Then, 1987 produced a year with juice at 1.06 and NOBODY thought it was the ball, they all thought steroids or they simply didn’t recognize the year to year jump in home runs of 16.5%. In 1988, when MLB resumed using a more similar manufacturing process to the early 80s the juice factor dropped to 0.76 in 1988 one year after the peak. Did everyone stop taking steroids? NOPE. The ball manufacturing processes reverted back to their previous steps and raw materials. Steroids got the credit for the jump but nobody noticed the huge fallback the next year!! For 6 years the ball was reasonably stable at 1960s like values then in 1994 (after Bonds had already won MVPs with the lower juice level ball) the juice factor jumped to 1.03 close to the 1987 peak.
Let’s interrupt the progression of the juice in the ball discussion for one quick anecdote. In 1992 an owner named Bud Selig who was found guilty of cheating the players out of $280M in free agency money along with Jerry Reinsdorf by Fay Vincent. Selig then lobbied to remove Fay Vincent and replace him as acting commissioner of baseball. This dirty owner got the job permanently in 1998 and clearly represented the interest of owners not players thus increasing the divide between owners and the Players Association.. As owner Selig was aware of the steroids and the even more prevalent problem in baseball, cocaine. Fay Vincent before being ousted by Selig and others proclaimed steroids banned from baseball but no vote was taken at that time meaning the rules had not changed with regard to steroids. Given the state of baseball in 1992 the new acting commissioner chose NOT to pursue enacting Fay Vincent declaration with owners and the players association and eventually saw a strike in 1994 thanks to the escalating animosity between the two parties.
The lost profits in 1994 may have driven the commissioner to selecting a ball manufacturing process that jumped the juice in the ball OR it may have been a freakishly lucky coincidence. You make your own call on this one. Knowing Selig’s lack of integrity, I think he intentionally juiced the ball to help baseball recover from the loses in 1994. Anyway, this same commissioner was the guy who threw Bonds, McGwire and Sosa under the bus and fabricated how the steroids were ruining the game when in fact they were simply ruining the long term health of players and had insignificant impact on the numbers.
OK back to the timeline. With Selig in charge of baseball the juice in the ball jumped in 1994 and then went on a 16 year run with the juice factor over 1.0 a plateau roughly 10% higher than prior to him being commissioner.
Everyone was suspicious of the impact of steroids since guys were hitting home runs at a new high. Nobody bothered to research the ball or if they did they weren’t allowed to leak it to the press to subvert Selig’s goal of being the savior of baseball. All the great sports journalists of the era never bothered to report on the juice in the ball, they only fulfilled Selg’s agenda of blaming the players.
Remember, the problem with arguing the jump in HRs is from steroids is that growth in steroids should produce an upward trending slope but it didn’t! Players weren’t taking steroids one year and cutting back the next, the ball was fluctuating just like it had since 1871. There was no upward trend line which would have validated the steroid argument. Instead, a higher plateau was achieved with an identical pattern of fluctuation from year to year that had existed since 1871. From 1994 until 2009 the juice factor was greater than 1.0 and no more than 1.17 every year despite steroid penalties and Selig declaring he cleaned up the game? There was no cleaning up of the game from a HR perspective, the plateau was maintained just like in the 20s and 50s when new plateaus were reached. Steroids should have produced an upward trend then a downward trend after the stringent guidelines were imposed on the players. That didn’t happen. The plateau took on the exact same behavior as the prior plateaus and steroids were insignificant in the pattern of HRs in baseball. FYI…. 2010 was the first year since 1993 that the juice dropped below 1.0 and it was short lived. Only 2011, 2013 and 2014 have seen sub 1.0 juice factors this century. In 2015, another significant change to the manufacturing process jumped the juice factor from 0.86 to 1.01. That growth percentage was greater than the one seen in 1987 when out of nowhere the ball significantly changed. Since then the ball keeps jumping in juice. 2017 and 2019 saw the juice factor hit new highs of 1.26!! Bonds hit 73 home runs in 2001 when the juice factor was 1.12, now the ball is 10% more juiced than when he set the record so fans can now realize how special Bonds and the players of that era were. Steroids didn’t aid their HR accomplishments the ball did. If players today were close to their level they would be breaking those records based on the juice in the ball and they aren’t.
Selig destroyed a generation of hitters that may have been the best in history or at least the best since the days of Ruth. Ruth hit the majority of his HRs with a ball having roughly 0.50 juice factor. I believe he was the greatest HR hitter of all time and his peers were some of the greatest of all time too despite the huge differences in the game from then until now. The Aaron era should have gotten more scrutiny with respect to the baseball because the jump in HRs was so prolific but nobody thought to question the manufacturing process, the distribution process and the storage process of the balls used daily in games. They just assumed the players were getting better at hitting home runs. Heck, the same might have happened in the 90s had it not been for Canseco and the drug busts that gave the public an excuse for the rise. Nobody is questioning the players today about what they are doing to their bodies when HRS per game are at an all-time high. Why? Because we now know about how badly the ball varies from year to year and we simply blame the jump on the juice. We finally got to the right conclusion but it cost an entire generation of players a chance at the HOF thanks to Bud Selig, the single most corrupt figure in baseball history. Fay Vincent deserved better as does Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and the entire generation of players who used a juiced ball to reach new highs in home runs.
One last FYI… steroids were officially declared illegal in baseball in 2005 not 1992. The idea that players were cheating is a media creation by guys like Tom Verducci. The were legal in Bonds time and Clemens time and there is no evidence that supports any significant impact of the use of steroids on home runs. Steroid use became a modern day witch trial thanks to the disgruntled fans who contacted Congress about their heroes records falling, Bud Selig the man who would be king, and the media looking to sensationalize everything possible to increase viewership. It’s a travesty each year when Bonds and Clemens don’t make the HOF and people call them cheaters. That classification should be maintained for people like Cora, Hinch, Beltran and the other Astros who participated in true cheating. Or the Red Sox ownership, Cora, his coaches and the players who participated in yet another cheating scandal. Steroids were not banned nor did they impact the home run numbers as reported by the media and provided to the misinformed committee of congressmen evaluating steroids for the people of America.
Let’s hope the baseball writers finally educate themselves to the real story of steroids and lift the ban on the HOF. Until then, the HOF remains a stained organization that doesn’t represent baseball as it should. Selig in and Bonds out is enough for me to call it a joke. I feel sorry for all those enshrined that got there by being great players because they are impacted by this incredible injustice. Their memory isn’t tarnished by being a member, the HOF’s reputation is the only thing tarnished by the poor choices made over the last 20 years. Educate the voters so they fully understand what Selig did to once again hurt the players union just as Fay Vincent pointed out nearly 30 years ago before being ousted by Selig and his fellow owners..
ChiSoxCity
The Dodgers traded for Betts, and will most likely end up with Lindor and Arenado/Story. Meanwhile, 90% of teams haven’t won in decades and can’t keep their few young stars on the roster to remain competitive. It’s an exploitive and sick system for most fan bases.
Boe Jiden
How about we just wait and see if they trade for Lindor, Arenado, or Story before we say stupid things. You are complaining about things that haven’t happened yet. Dodgers only have 64 million committed to payroll after next year. That’s why they traded for and signed Betts, because they had been diligent and wise in how they spent so they could easily afford him.
Boe Jiden
Also, in last 20 years, we’ve had 14 different champions and 19 teams in total have made World Series, so no, this idea that “90% of teams haven’t won in decades” is just purely false. Try again.
BlueSkies_LA
Those already committed numbers are pretty deceptive. The Dodgers are facing some big arbitration increases next year and the players lost to free agency can’t all be replaced from within. They could also easily add $20-30M in salary commitments this year. Bottom line, they are realistically probably not going to have more than $20-30M in wiggle room before hitting the CBT in most seasons going forward.
JoeBrady
I was going to say the same thing. This was an embarrassing mistake by Chisox. There are actually two brutal mistakes in his statement.
1-I have a poor memory, but I’d give you 10 teams in 10 seconds.
2-How innumerate must someone be to come up with 90%? 90% not winning means only 10% do win. 10% of 30 teams is 3 teams. In the past three years, 3 different teams have won. Unless only those three teams have won the other 17 WS, that number had to be wrong.
I don’t want to be a math snob, but I pretty much had that math nailed in the 3rd grade.
Boe Jiden
Blueskies: All that depends on if LA keeps developing young talent. If guys like Gray, Hoese, Ruiz, Lux, Busch, Beeter develop into realiable players, then Dodgers payroll won’t be much different as it is now. Seager, Bellinger, Buehler are in line for big raises just as money for Kelly, Jansen, Kershaw, Muncy and Pollock will come off the books.
Yes, all the guys lost to free agency can’t be replaced internally, but if Dodgers keep the development train going, they’ll replace most internally.
BlueSkies_LA
Most, I think is massively optimistic. Kershaw for one will not be allowed to walk. Seager, probably not either and he will be very expensive to retain. The conversation on him starts at $25M per. They have to replace three bullpen arms. Urias is into arbitration after next year. If they don’t bring back Turner they will have to add somebody. In the short term they don’t have any internal options right now who aren’t a step down. The shopping cart adds up in a hurry. I’d be surprised if the Dodgers fielded a team with a year-end payroll much under $200m in the foreseeable future.
Boe Jiden
Oh, I don’t think they’ll be under 200 million either. But why should they be? They are the Dodgers. They should be at or near the top of salaries every year. They draw more fans than anyone and have a ridiculous tv deal. They should be unapologetic big spenders.
ChiSoxCity
How right-wing American—selfish and self-centered. It’s not healthy for the game if fans are checking out because the Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox want to load up on All-Stars from other teams. It’s basically WWE at this point. I bet you like that too, right?
Boe Jiden
Sorry Karl, you are totally right. Every team should spend the exact same amount of money.
Seriously though, all these owners can spend big if they want to keep their own players and add around them. Most just choose not to because they value their bottom line more than winning. And if owners are crying poor that they can’t afford players, well, then maybe sell your team to an owner who can afford to spend the right way. That’s what the fans of every city deserve.
Lastly, it’s completely naive and childish of you to not expect teams in LA and NY to spend more than teams in MIL or DEN. Is it fair? No. But life isn’t fair. And a salary cap isn’t the answer. In the NBA, teams like the lakers and warriors still can blow way past the hard cap by resigning their own players. Teams in small markets can’t. Boo-hoo.
And fans aren’t checking out because of big teams like LA/NY/BOS, if anything, that draws people in because it gives fans a team to root against. What is making fans check out is length of game and too many 3 true outcomes.
And no, I don’t watch the WWE.
Enrico Pallazzo
I bet if your sox suddenly had a richer owner you would stop crying like an idiot about poor teams. Talk to a Mets fan about that. Your owner is also a billionaire. I believe his net worth is close to 2 billion. He’s not some little raggedy salt of the earth blue collar joe shmoe. White sox have been signing free agents and attracting good players in free a agency. That’s not the only way to make a great team. Also you mentioned you hate the nba and think it’s rigged and that you also want a salary cap .guess what the nba has smart guy??? A salary cap. And it doesn’t make the sport more fair now does it? They still build super teams and leave some teams with zero hope. Stop crying about money, maybe cry about your dumb GM/owners who do stuff like trading away Tatis.
Boe Jiden
And yes, I guess I am self centered and selfish in my fandom. I want the Dodgers to win every year. That’s what being a fan is. I’m not a fan of baseball because I want to see all teams do well, I’m a fan because I want to see my team win. That’s the only team I care about.
UnknownPoster
Again man, Chicago has bought more former all stars as free agents since 2017 than LA. you’re complaining about yourself and then pretending it’s LA doing it
UnknownPoster
You do know the min Lux tax is 210M for 2021? And will only continue to rise? Who cares if they are sub 200M?
They are facing the same issue *any* team faces when they have a talented arbitration group come up together. Payroll may go up, at a minimum it will be reallocated. They do have multiple expiring deals that will either decline in AAV(CK) or leave (Jansen, Kelly, Pollock, Price). That group of 4 at the end makes almost 60M in 2021 if my memory on their deals is correct, and all gone by 2022. That’s a lot of cheddar
But overall, if payroll rises to 220 or something for next 3 years… it doesn’t change the fact that they did not lead MLB in payroll for every season since 2013 like some claim. Even since 2017 that’s a BS claim
Cap & Crunch
Totally false Enrico on basketball –
The cap is amazing for the sport, it makes it thrive for all 30 teams
Baseball would be 100% better with a cap and FLOOR with better Rev sharing
The fact the Rays are trying to Sell Snell for financial reasons is beyond sickening and a huge black eye on this sport-
New generation of kids these days, they want fair, its not just root till your blue in the face and maybe you’ll have a magical year some year like us older folks! Cant say I blame them; getting a cap/floor should be the first thing on the menu next CBA but it wont be.
This sport has huge problems, my suggestion; clone Adam Silver pronto and give him the keys
UnknownPoster
Again, all you’re doing is putting more money in the owners pocket and taking it from the players with a cap
You realize an offseason like Philly’s with Harper/Segura/McCutchen/Robertson would likely not be allowed, in your scenario, because some BS cap would claim they are spending too much. And what did that spending get them the last 2 years? The most difficult part of running a franchise is deciding who to invest in long term. You’re just making it easier to screw the players
its_happening
By “thriving” you mean staging the winner year in and year out? The lack of predictability? The orchestrated, scripted drama that is the NBA? No thanks.
Baseball will not be solved by a floor or cap. The new generation of kids might want to learn how to handle losing and what real competition is like. But please do not bring up the idea that the NBA is exceptionally run.
JoeBrady
How right-wing American—selfish and self-centered.
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LOL!
You live in the 3rd largest city in the US, but are 24th in attendance. Your next door neighbors were somehow able to sign Lester away from the RS, and Darvish away from the Dodgers. And the WS signed $49M worth of players last year.
Quit crying poverty and support your team.
Boe Jiden
Hey Cap n Crunch, nice try, but you are completely and totally wrong. The NBA has less parity than any other league. It has had more dynasty’s than other league in the last 30 years.
Number of NBA champions since 1990: 11
NFL champions: 16
MLB champions: 18
So which sport has had the most parity? MLB.
If you want to see the same select teams win over and over, by all means, hand the keys to the NBA.
This narrative that the mlb doesn’t have parity is made up by people who don’t like the game and want to see it fail.
JoeBrady
It amazes me that this is even news for some people. A lot of people would have to think for a few seconds to remember the last B2B in the MLB. Or the the RS have the only claim to a dynasty this century, and that includes multiple last place finishes.
If one is a casual fan, there is probably no basis for a hard opinion.
If one is a hardcore fan, there is no excuse for not knowing these things.
filthyrich
SF still has the RS number. 3 in 5 seems more dynastic than 4 in 15.
No B2B this century!
The last B2B was probably the last true dynasty. Without a B2B, is it really a dynasty?
JoeBrady
The fact the Rays are trying to Sell Snell for financial reasons is beyond sickening and a huge black eye on this sport-
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IMHO, it is kind of ridiculous, and flies in the face of the facts. The fact that the Rays made the WS, while far larger-spending teams are playing golf, is because they understand the value of players and the value of prospects.
Theoretically, how does this differ from the Archer trade, or Longoria before him, or the Stanton trade?
A smart GM understands the future net value of their players, and will try to trade up in value with teams that don’t understand the formula, or have conflicting needs.
But the bottom line is: if you consider this a disaster for TB, then you have to hold a consistent opinion, and think the Archer trade ‘is beyond sickening’. In which case, you are in fact rooting for a .500 TB instead of a WS TB.
JoeBrady
As a RS fan, I have scientifically determined that no less than 4 WSC’s constitute a dynasty.
UnknownPoster
If you want to be a dynasty, you have to be relevant in all the years of your dynasty. Not missing the playoffs twice and barely being a WC the other 3 times
JoeBrady
As a RS fan, I have scientifically determined that finishing last a few times is okay.
KD17
Dynasty is about championships over time so JoeBrady is right. That era is over in Boston thanks to Cora and the dbag owners. Laughing@you your argument significantly reduces the chances for a dynasty. The Bulls were a dynastry winning 6 of 8 years much like the Celtics in the 60s and the Yankees from 1920 to 1962 (call it one dynasty or multiple smaller dynasties is up to you). Do the Patriots qualify? Does Golden State qualify under your definition? I only disagree with you as to whether it is important where you finish when you don’t win during a dynasty run.
More importantly, does it matter if we say the Red Sox were a dynasty in the first 20 years of the century versus they were the most dominant organization? If it truly matters, then the latter works for me. I’ve dropped the Red Sox as my team after 60 years because of Cora being rehired. Ownership has shown a complete lack of integrity in handling their star black player Mookie Betts and the rehiring of a convicted cheater. They don’t deserve to win for another 86 years or until Henry, Bloom and Cora are gone from the organization. Until then, I’ve moved on to the Chicago White Sox, Chicago Cubs and now the Philadelphia Phillies because they have the combination of coach and GM the Red Sox should have had to gain the notoriety of being a dynasty. DD and Girardi make the Phillies a very fun team to follow. Girardi got many weak Yankee teams to over=perform when Jeter was fading into the sunset and DD has provided resources in every location he’s been at to help teams significantly improve. They have the upside to make folks stop talking about the LAD farm system and start talking about how good GMs don’t take 5 to 10 years to build a winner.
UnknownPoster
Hendricks to LA would make a super pen this year and let Kenley walk cleanly next year.
they could even trade Kenley while paying down the contract, to increase Friedman’s war chest, IE Maeda
Cap & Crunch
You realize you’d have to give 15 mill w Kenley to get back some used baseball right?
You might as well be talking about a treasure chest for this pipe dream
UnknownPoster
That’s quite the exaggeration. Kenley at 5M (them kicking in 15M) gets a massive haul
The dodgers sent 10M with Maeda to buy Graterol. They sent money in the Puig deal to get better prospects. It’s not likely I agree. But to say it is a pipe dream is laughable
Cap & Crunch
Massive haul ? This is getting even weirder now….
Kenley will be a Dodger all season for better or worse; buckle up bucka roo
UnknownPoster
I was playing along with his ridiculous proposal LAD would *need* to send that much money to facilitate a trade, and for nothing
That’s ridiculous. You can love or hate him. But he’s still an above average closer with massive experience. He had a 128 ERA+ last year, 28% better than the average pitcher. Statistically . You don’t think that gets something useful if he only makes 5M? That’s just dumb. Teams spend MASSIVELY for closing experience. And just a 1 year deal?
Again. I do not think Kenley will be traded. But if he is, he’s a candidate to send money with to increase the return. That was the point of my original post. After that, it’s that dudes scenario I’m replying to
Shrutefarm
A reliever has 1 or 2 good years and turns it into a lucrative contract and then regresses. I’ve seen this movie far too often. I wish him well but 4 years is pretty steep for a reliever.
JVizzle
Can’t fault the Dodgers for how they have run their team. Can maybe fault managerial decisions prior to this season costing them titles. Overall they are best team in NL – and well positioned (with money) for next few years.
Only problem I have with Dodger fans is the inability to let 2017 go…..
UnknownPoster
are you serious? Most fans of MLB still hate the Astros for 2017 and you think the *actual team* they beat for the title isn’t justified to *at least* be as angry as regular fans? Get real
World Series tickets were 1300/seat for reserve, in 17. Dodger fans spent a lot of money to learn we were facing a team that cheated. And that doesn’t even account for the heartache of the series individual games, the Continued BS about Kershaw blowing games, Darvish losing it in the 1st G7. All later shown to be because of their cheating. So please, don’t tell me how to think
Enrico Pallazzo
I would love to see you just let it go if your team got cheated and then the cheating team showed zero remorse and continued to taunt your team at every opportunity. I highly doubt that dodgers fans will ever get over it and I don’t expect them to. As a mariners fan I know that my team didn’t really have a chance but they still got cheated too. I’ll always despise the astros, Even after all of the people from 2017 are gone. The astros are a disgusting organization from top to bottom.
Cap & Crunch
Theres just going to be too many deals in the market this year (on 1 yr contracts) for Fried to pay full price on the dollar for Liam (especially 4 y?rs ) – His thrift store eyes wont be able to lay off the holiday sales
Really good market to shop if your willing to go multi yrs on target guys for your org tho- Loved the May deal for NYM already- I see teams like the white sox and blue jays ulimately getting some pretty good bang for thier buck in this market
End guess- LAD doesnt ink an RP over a 1 yr deal. Fluidity is so key these next couple yrs and the pen isn’t a blaring red bell at the moment- 8~9 mill on 2. and a half relivers, they might have the half in Pazos already
KD17
Kenley looked terrible in a shortened season. Could be an off season not the end of his reign. With arms like Graterol why waste money on a closer until it’s perfectly clear you need to dispose of Kenley? The Dodgers don’t have any urgent issues except how to pay Bloom for the deal he did with them last year. I’m thinking Friedman owes him a small yacht.
CommentsSectionCommenter
KD17, I say this on behalf of most (all?) Dodgers fans a week late, though it’s no less true now:
It’s PERFECTLY CLEAR we need to dispose of Kenley. And not cut, or even trade, but never ever ever use him in a high-leverage situation again not ever.
He was elite for a good long while. He is…nowhere close to that now.