The Blue Jays are among the teams that have made an offer to free agent infielder Ha-Seong Kim, reports Daniel Kim of ESPN (Twitter link). It’s said to be a proposal of at least five years in length. Daniel Kim reported earlier this week that Ha-Seong Kim was mulling multiple five-year offers.
Kim can play anywhere in the infield and has raked over six-plus seasons in the Korea Baseball Organization. Last season, he hit .306/.397/.523 with 30 home runs in 622 plate appearances for the Kiwoom Heroes. The club posted him earlier this month. MLB teams have until January 1 to work out a deal.
Because of his youth, Kim could appeal to rebuilding and contending clubs alike. The Blue Jays are looking to cement themselves as part of the latter group and have been connected to nearly every high-profile free agent and trade candidate this winter. Toronto has an obvious need for an everyday infielder to join Bo Bichette, Cavan Biggio and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. on the dirt. Were Kim to sign with the Jays, they could plug him directly into their gap at third base, or he could take over at shortstop and bump Bichette to the vacant infield position. At the start of the offseason, the MLBTR staff ranked Kim the #7 available free agent and projected a five-year, $40MM contract.
Anyone know if Kim can play third well? the Bluejays need a good 3B.
Based on old-school numbers we can see, the answer is no. I don’t see a .940 fielding percentage at 3B holding up.
probably better them Vlad tbh
Vlad is solid at the buffet line and that’s about it. What a disaster that guy is. He was embarrassed at the size of his own ass after the Covid layoff.
He reminds me so much of Prince Fielder…
No kidding, Darkside. Vlad still needs to drop at least 20 and is probably better suited to catch fly balls than field ground balls.
Biggio can swing over to 3B.
I think the plan is for Bichette to move to third. Most likely anyway… If they sign Kim.
Nobody has said a word about Bichette moving to a position he has not played. Nobody has said a word about Bo playing 3B. Never played 3B in the minors. Whoever told you this or upvoted your comment hasn’t been paying much attention to Bichette. Biggio has some experience at 3B and he can be put anywhere. He’s the logical choice.
The real question is Bo v. Kim, who plays 2B.
“Vlad is solid at the buffet line and that’s about it.” lol. That’s the commentary missing from Baseball Reference, for real.
He lost 40 pounds and I can’t find anything that indicates he added 20 LBS back on like you claimed. You act as if he’s been a complete bust at the plate, yet he’s been an above average hitter since 2019 and just as productive with the bat as Whit Merrifield, Franmil Reyes and Shin Soo Choo.
I’m a Jays fan and am sweating bullets about Vlads body. He’s going to eat his way out of the league in three years.
Based on what? His previsous weight? People change. How do you know he cant lose the weight and keep it off? He’s lost at least 40 LBS since the 2020 season started and he’s trying to get to at least 235 LBS by next season. He estimated that he started out the year at 280 so he’s more than on pace to get to 235. How about give him a chance before writing him off.
He’s not a bust at the plate. He busts what’s on top of it.
Because of that, he’s been useless defensively and has caused a major problem thanks to the new logjam at 1B and forcing Teoscar to play the OF. Vlad is so bad, thanks partially to his diet, that Teoscar in RF is a better option than Vlad at 3B.
Some veteran has to take Vlad Jr under his wing. The Jays need to tell him he is a 1B and fire Montoyo if he tries him at 3B again.
Vlad will be a star at the plate. He is young and still figuring it all out. He was rushed to the big leagues because of his natural talent. Now he has to learn to be a pro. Everyone relax.
A 108 wRC+ isn’t bad for a 21 year old. Not every single young player is going to come up and light the world on fire like Mike Trout did. He’s shown a good amount of potential through his first two seasons and there’s no reason to think he can’t improve, especially given how much he’s worked to lose weight.
Vladdy will be a decent 1B/DH type but not elite. Those launch angle numbers are horrendous. I don’t care how much weight he losses, he’s got deep rooted mechanical flaws. Except for his fork to mouth action which received an 80 rating from baseball America.
The key is can he keep it off? The lure of late night McDonalds runs is strong. I can see him at a nice 230 LBS and he feels like he can treat himself to one McDonalds run. He goes for a double Big Mac combo with a mcChicken and 40 nuggets on the side. He then does that 3 times a week for a month and also buys a dozen prepackaged glazed donuts while driving home from an errand and eats 11 of them while driving and does that several times in a month. Next thing you know, this becomes a habit and next thing you know, he is 291 LBS and the Front Office loses it on him
Yea, he’s so good at over-eating, he lost 40 LBS since the season started and has continued to lose.
Sometimes you have to roll a 20-piece nuggets with the big mac combo. Depends on the kind of night you had.
Launch angle is stupid and can be ignored. Vlad hammers the baseball.
He still needs to lose weight. Wish he’d lose enough to play RF. His fly ball routes in the infield are good and he has a strong arm. But he’s too hefty.
You can’t just throw out launch angle just because you don’t like it. But he’s going into his age 22 season and has been a solid hitter the last two years. He’s shown a good work ethic given the amount of weight he’s lost since the start of the 2020 season, and, like you said, he hammers the ball. Was in the top 93rd percentile of exit velo and hard hit rate last season. No reason to think right now he can’t become an elite hitter.
It says it in the article that everyone is reacting to
I can throw out launch angle because it is not a problem for Guerrero. If you watched him play, you’d agree. He hits lasers. Absolute lasers. His exit velocity is superb. He hits the ball so hard he doesn’t need a good launch angle. This has nothing to do with whether I like it or not.
Does that make sense? Because we are in-agreement that Vlad can be an elite hitter. He is only 21 years old. For a guy that young he is already a very good hitter and getting better. But he does not need a great launch angle if he hits line drive homeruns and extra base hits (which he does).
Things really escalated for him in that drive thru line. I can just see the mayo from the dozens of junior chickens he inhaled running down his triple chin.
He looks like a McGriddle guy to me
McGriddles in the mornings. McChickens in the evenings. With a side of nuggets.
You know you’re spoiled with a successful rebuild when you complain about a 21 year old who’s already been An above average hitter for 2 years AND has shown a willingness to continue to work at his issues. Yeah he got fat but he’s busting ass to fix it. Aim your complains elsewhere. Any team would take a 21 year old who willing to work that hard to improve
Right-on laughing.
I disagree, @mlb1225 –
A wrc+ of 108 as a 21 year old in MLB is outstanding.
prince was a pretty good hitter in his day.
Funniest part about this is it’s more than likely a bunch of non athletic overweight chunky monkeys that are rolling on this guy about his weight. At least he’s proving he’s willing to make an effort, can ya’ll say the same?
So you don’t follow baseball do you? Let me guess your favorite team is Detroit or a like minded team that can’t develope internally, right? He’s slime down and realized where he slacked in 2020. So when he wins an MVP in the future I want you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge.
Moving from shortstop to 3rd base isn’t much of a stretch. Players capable of playing SS are usually capable of playing 3rd because SS is a more difficult defensive position and they are both on the left side of the infield. That being said, it is totally possible you are right in this case. I definitely read suggestions that Bichette could move to a different infield position as some people believe he has less than desirable defense at shortstop. Perhaps I remembered it incorrectly and Bichette would be moving to 2nd base and Biggio or someone else would move to 3rd. The point was 2 fold: 1) If the Blue Jays sign Kim it won’t be for the purpose of moving Kim out of the shortstop position. Toronto would only sign Kim to be their starting shortstop because he is so defensively superior to any other starting shortstop on their roster. 2) If the Blue Jays sign Kim Bo Bichette WILL be moving out of the shortstop position into another middle or left infield position. Playing Bichette at 3rd (or even 2nd) and playing Kim at shortstop makes way more sense than playing Kim at 3rd and leaving Bichette at shortstop. In other words: If the Blue Jays sign KIm, Bo Bichette IS moving positions because Kim is a better defensive player than Bichette at Bichette’s current position. Maybe Bichette moves to 2nd base. Bichette will definitely play either 2nd or 3rd with Kim on the roster and Bichette will definitely not play shortstop. I really don’t get the point of the semantics. The importance of which position Bichette moves to pales in comparison to the fact that he WILL be moving positions if Toronto signs Kim… And yes, I think I just answered your question. If one of either Kim or Bichette end up playing 2nd base it will obviously be Bichette because Kim is a much better shortstop.
What makes Kim a much better shortstop?
Kang as probably closest comparison of a SS transitioning from KBO to MLB.
Kang was used at 3B/SS and then settled at 3B in MLB. After strictly SS by the end of his KBO career. His fielding percentage and range/9 was better at SS in KBO than Kim.
I have supreme doubts that Kim would steal anyone’s starting SS job.
Kim as injury or yips insurance. Experience at 3B in KBO so he might be a flex guy. Omar Vizquel sized, might be a season before he could even handle a full time role. Year one seems likely to be spot starts unless injury throws us a curve.
Bichette isn’t like Gurriel at 2B level. If you only watched the playoffs, you might think differently, but Bichette can be average at SS as long as he can remain durable and the playoff performance doesn’t get in his head. Insurance at SS is very smart, but a replacement only a need if they have a Golden resume at SS.
@filthyrich – The fact that he is considered a very good defensive shortstop in his league and the fact that Bichette is considered a below average defensive shortstop in MLB. You can also see it in videos with the plays they each make (or don’t make) and you can read the scouting reports. In a general statement, Kim has much more range than Bichette, he is faster than Bichette and he is more accurate than Bichette which makes Kim far less prone to commit errors on the field. I am thinking I read that Kim also has more arm strength than Bichette on top of the fact that Kim has the far superior glove.
Thank you for clarity.
I’m not concerned enough to be scouring video and scouting reports, just havin’ some fun and looking at the stat lines, I question why Kim is spending time at 3B in KBO if he’s considered a very good defensive SS? And I really question the ‘much more range’ and ‘far superior’ talk. Without watching all the games, I guess that the sample video on Kim is highly biased toward highlight reel variety. And if you’re a Jays fan, I guess that the errors stick in the memory for Bichette most of all. He’s not a flashy, highlight reel type. As long as he can continue to work on improving his f% and RF, his bat will play at SS. Most of the guys that field the position better than him, can’t hit like him. The tradeoff is worth unless he starts really butchering it out there.
My personal feeling is that a SS getting outs is the ultimate, so RF/9 is my preferred stat for judging the position, and in that area, Kim and Bichette seems pretty much a coin flip.
Bichette rookie season bit below average, and 2nd season moved closer to average results. Some promise remains.
Kim still a wild card. Why would you go with the wild card?
Especially when the wild card has shown a willingness to play 3B.
I’d move Bichette off SS for Baez and Simmons for sure. And Story and Lindor. Probably Mondesi, Anderson, Dejong. Few others like Tatis, Seager, Adames, Swansby, the Crawfords might edge out Bichette, but it seems he’s worked his way close to this middle pack area. For now at least. Unless that playoff performance really soured the FO.
Good stuff, interesting to see it all play out, hopefully it’s with the Jays!
Bichette is injury prone and over the long term will play out as a below average defensive player. I like his swing and his top of the order abilities but durability will likely be his downfall.
A lot of players in this era survive, even thrive at times despite durability issues Corey Seager stands out if we’re talking SS specifically. Tatis still hasn’t shown he can survive a full 6 month MLB grind. Valid concern with Bo but he’s not at a Simmons or Tulo level of injury risk to me yet. Really does emphasize the need for a flexible roster. If he misses 4-6 weeks in 3 out of 5 seasons, that is still manageable. A better than Espinal/Panik as your backup SS option would be really nice.
Long term a lot of guys will play out as below average defensively as well. How long term are we talking I guess. He’s still young enough that we only need to think about the next 5 seasons really. No need to lock positional players up into their 30s as long as they’re playing on turf, in my opinion. Teams that aren’t spending are forced into using young options, and it isn’t backfiring. Turning into a young man’s game for the most part.
As for Bo… missed 5 weeks of a short 2016 season, 500 PA in 2017. 600 PA in 2018. Missed 6 weeks in 2019 or he would have been called up earlier. May be a good thing come free agency. Still got 450 PA in 2019.
Missed 4 weeks in 2020. Or half the season if you wanna spin it to make him sound worse.
I’d gladly take 400-600 PA per season over the next 5 years as long as there is a competent back up on the 26man roster!
Bichette is not moving off SS unless the Jays trade for Lindor or Story or the sign Simmons. Other than that he stays. If Kim signs I see him playing 2B while Biggio moves to 3B. Kim can play SS when Bichette needs a day off.
Indeed, I hope he doesn’t turn into him. It’ll be such a waste and blow for the Jays. I’m actually relying more on Biggio and Bichette to become huge stars. Vlad Jr. comes in as my numero 3 guy. 1B/DH type of player at best.
Perhaps not this year but soon enough Bichette will be forced off SS by a deal, signing or promotion of another player.
John Kruk proved body doesn’t matter in baseball
Kim’s .950 at 3B this year looks a lot better than his .963 at SS — fielding percentages are normally much lower at 3B than SS (they don’t call it the hot corner for nothing).
.950 is a little low, but you’d have to compare to his league’s average to account for possible differences in grounds crew and official scoring between leagues.
i think he’s played some in the past
360.1 innings in 2020 to be exact
He reminds you of Prince Fielder? But yet he’s embarrassing… good comparison. Vlad looks like he’s dropped 40 pounds
Both very talented. Both T-rexes at the supper table. Short careers due to bad bodies.
He dropped 40 but has reportedly put 20 of those back on since returning the DR for winter ball.
Vlad Jr. is going to never live up to the hype because his body type won’t let him be elite.
The Brewers got Prince’s best years.
Would love to see Vlad match those age 22-25 seasons so we can complain that they brought him up too early when the expansion Montreal franchise lures him away in free agency.
I’m being unfairly hard on Vladdy. I just think his ceiling is nowhere near many of us thought it would be. He just not athletic enough.
Scott Boras sold him to the Tigers on a 9 year contract by mostly talking about his expected career longevity because he never missed games in Milwaukee
yeah… I was thinking the same thing. I feel like my original statement may have been correct. Why does he find it so absurd that it might happen again?
To be fair Fielder never missed games in Detroit either. Texas is where the wheels came off
Well I like the sound of that. Hopefully they’re one of the front runners especially due to the Ryu connection. If he’s their big position player signing I would not be surprised at all if they send a package including Groshans or Martin to Cincinnati for a pitcher or two. They seem to match up really well in a trade.
Glad you communicated how you feel. Trading Martin, the team’s future CF, would be unwise.
IMHO Martin is as untouchable as Nate
Groshans and Kirk (and another mid-tier prospect) to the Reds for Castillo.
Works for me Jal179!
Is that enough? Probably not. I think Castillo would require Gurriel Jr going the other way.
Let’s just settle for Gray…
No. Teoscar, Groshans, Kirk, SWR. That should do it. Then the Jays have to go get a CF and go hard for Springer. Have him play CF until Martin is ready, swing Springer to RF.
Gurriel is up there with Bo and Vlad as guys to keep in my opinion. Great contract, good length, continues to improve, younger than Teoscar.
Losing Teoscar would hurt but agree on holding onto Lourdes over him. Castillo and Ryu would be a very legit 1-2.
They are not trading Martin.
Agree— untouchable along with Pearson
preach brother
Yankees could use a second baseman
Yankees 2B is playing SS
then what of DJ? are you Yankees fans that bothered by Torres at SS that you’d move on from DJ to get him to play 2B?
DarkSide830… In my opinion, resigning DJ is a borderline necessary move. He is an absolute beast offensively (and unlike basically any other hitter the Yankees have), he’s versatile and very good defensively, and he’s a great clubhouse guy (not to mention he loves playing for the Yankees and wants to stay). With that said, the ONLY way not bringing him back would make remotely ANY sense, would be if they go out and acquire a legit SS, which would push Gleyber back to 2B (where he is most certainly better defensively). They’d pretty much have to trade for Lindor or Story for it to make any sense to not bring back DJ, and I’m not necessarily advocating that. The acquisition cost would be fairly substantial for either of those guys, and they’re both free agents after this season. Would trading upper tier prospects to acquire a guy only under control for 1 year make sense for the Yankees, when they could potentially wait a year and just acquire either for only money? Who knows…
I called this. 5 years for 35 million. New 3B batting from the 7 hole.
Next up, JTR and then a deal with the Reds and Pirates for some starting pitching depth.
It’s coming together Shatkins…
if he’s only getting 7 per i think he’d take a shorter deal
Shapiro and Atkins gotta get it done. It’s like they throw spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks.
The Jays need pitching, pitching, pitching.
Well, if they sign Kim, it frees up a lot of money otherwise spent on DJ. They could trade from depth for a solid pitcher and still have the money for Bauer, should he want to come north. I don’t expect Jays will be out AAV’ed… But Canada can sometimes be a tougher sell.
Or shortstop
If Kim ends up a Jay, I would guess that would remove them from the Springer sweepstakes. Austin Martin becomes their starting CF in 2022.
I actually hate the idea of paying someone 40ish million over 5 years whom we’ve never seen against MLB pitching. I bet this guy ends up being a total flop.
It wasn’t 40 but the last time they did this with a position player was Gurriel and it seems to be paying off. Hopefully Kim turns out to be the real deal as well if they manage to bring him in.
Good point. I’ll be livid if they move Gurriel to the Indians for 1year of Lindor.
Large gamble for sure.
Define flop?
I’d take that bet.
Some bats have been transitioning from KBO nicely, doesn’t seem impossible that he could remain rosterable for 5 seasons.
If he could hit like Darin Ruf and not kick the ball around the infield, I’d think that’s worth $40-ish-mill for 5 years.
He could be like Kang, but there seemed to be issues with Kang. And even then, his bat transitioned very well, and he had MLB interest for 5 seasons after he came over.
Anyway, fun to guess for now.
Scout’s honour, name a charity, in 5 years if Kim is not in MLB anymore and we’re all still ranting on this site, remind me and I’ll donate a $20
Deal!
I could see a 12HR 61RBI 10 SB .264 avg .330 OBP type stat line for him. Not sure that’s worth 8 million?
That’s Robbie Ray money!
If that was the 5 year average, I’d consider that a flop depending on a few other minor factors.
WAR might be smooth? Isn’t 1 WAR worth roughly $8mill? If he could total 5 WAR on a 5 year contract would be a fair bar to me. Whether it’s one fantastic year and 4 trash years, or 5 average years, a total of 5 by the end of 5th year.
Chance it gets forgotten, and all in fun so doesn’t need to be too particular. I’d cave to the peer pressure if anyone made a fair flop case once the smoke cleared. Hahha, cheers.
Kim is projected from ZIPS between 3.5-4WAR per season pretty consistently, based on league average defence, with an average stat line around .271 average, .344 on base, 24 homers and 16 steals.
What Jal179 just described as a stat line – without the steals – is pretty close to many considered a flop by Vladdy Jr. – in only 60 games in 2020. And even that was good for a 115WRC+.
Using a rough fWAR calculator, Kim’s calculations at shortstop (league average) as a ‘flop’ would still provide you with a 1.4-1.9WAR a year player, worth about $11-17 million a season. I’d take that.
Another way to think about it: a 1.7WAR player, which splits the difference, was Bo Bichette’s debut 2019 season.
If ZIPS is even close, then $8m per season is a bargain.
His slight size is the only thing that has me doubting the projection.
How many games in that one? I’d cut those projections nearly in half and still be content.
Even if he’s a part timer, he could be worth $8m.
Johnny Mac gave 4 WAR in 6 mostly part time years, in his 30s.
Munenori was 1.6 WAR in just over 2 part time years. In his 30s.
350 PA and 2.4 WAR in Johnny Mac’s most active season is about what I’d feel safe predicting for Kim’s first season. But my expertise is only in daydreaming so I’m just havin’ some fun anyway.
ZIPS assumes just under 500ABs so probably around 140-150 games per season.
I mean, prorated for everyone’s shortened seasons, a 3.5-4 fWAR season tossed onto the 2020 Blue Jays would make him a top 3 player. That’s better than any Blue Jay performed in 2019 or 2018, and only behind some guy named Josh Donaldson in 2017.
If ZIPS is even close the contract at 5/$40m is surplus by the end of May in Year 2.
If the Jays land Kim, I think they would push harder for Springer.
Kim plays ss
Bichette plays 2nd
Biggio plays 3rd (maybe some OF)
Vlad Jr and Tellez rotate playing 1st and DH
They are not moving Bo off SS unless it’s for Lindor. The question is Kim or Cavan at 3B.
And what are you going to do if Austin Martin (a) gets hurt a lot, (possible) (b) underperforms his projections (likely) or (c) takes his bonus money, figures he’s “arrived”, and starts playing like so many high draft choices (very probable).
Worry about 2021….let the next guy worry about 2022. Wave at him as you’re passing him in the standings.
Years ago, Rays fans didn’t want to trade for a SS, cuz after all, they had Tim Beckham coming….
Austin Martin is the next CF in 2022. Now, nobody said not to address 2021. There are options if the Jays are willing to make a big deal with their current OFs not named Gurriel.
Or hang with Grichuk for one more season.
Or move Biggio out there and acquire another INF. Grichuk, Roark and prospects for Arenado wouldn’t be bad.
If Martin flames out, sign a CF. Blue Jays, unlike the Rays, have money. Whether or not the Jays owners choose to spend is another topic. The Jays can work on a totally different level than the Rays if they choose.
But Martin is the CF of the future as of 2020.
No he isn’t.
What?
We finally agree on something lol.
My love of JTR and your Arenado hard on are misaligned but we can agree that Martin is their CF of the future if Kim is signed…
Not sure what you’re referring to when it comes to Arenado but your foggy vision of the franchise has you tossing cash down the toilet for Realmuto. I used Arenado as the example to expose your lack of logic. Nothing hard over here unless things appear too hard when in a relaxed state.
My logic in signing JTR is the ability to move Janssen and Kirk for quality controllable starters like Musgrove and Gray.
Starting pitching is the greater positional need than catcher or 3B but I can’t see them signing Bauer.
8 years of Arenado would be painful outside of Coors.
6 years of Arenado. Not 8.
Slightly less painful lol
Most of the time, hitters adjust once outside of Coors.. He’s still a 115-120 wRC+ guy away from Coors and with his elite defense, hes still an elite level player.
Would you want his $199 million/6 year contract? That’s a lot of cash.
Agree with adjusting away from Coors. Arenado would be like Brooks Robinson. Not the same offense force later in the deal, but still a huge asset with the glove. For a good team, that would be enough. Arenado changes a team’s entire infield defense. Everyone else is better because of what that one guy does. Not many guys like that, surely not at 3B. Imagine him and Simmons on the same lefty side? It would be like Robinson and Belanger, which is as good as it ever got. The kind of stuff that turns mediocre pitchers into Cy Young contenders. Miker Cuellar instantly became elite as an Oriole because of it. Dave McNally and Pat Dobson benefitted greatly as well.
Why not just sign Turner, trade for Castillo, and fill CF internally as you stated? That way they can compete now while Ryu is still a top pitcher and in the future when the young players mature. Ryu and Castillo is a nice top-end of a playoff rotation. If Pearson or Ray pitch come through, then they’re a tough out in October,
The only thing Ray will be going through is waivers.
Could sign Turner. All hinges on the Kim sweepstakes.
CF could be addressed with JBJ. Bat him 9th, play him against RHP, play Grichuk in CF with a lefty. Then you have a decision to make with Teoscar or the 1B. I think Pittsburgh wants Tellez if the Angels don’t give up Walsh or Thiass. That would be a deal for Taillon or Musgrove.
Sign Bauer, trade for Castillo, buckle up.
I like the idea of dealing Rowdy for Taillin
I like the idea of dealing Rowdy for Taillon
I would much rather have Castillo than Bauer. More bang for your buck; might even be the better pitcher moving forward. As a Dodgers fan, I feel my team will be improved without making any big moves. The only guy I’d like to see them try to reel in would be Castillo. A rotation of Buehler, Kershaw, Castillo, Urias, and May would be one for the ages.
Castillo costs prospects, Bauer costs money. Jays have both. Why not have both?
I honestly wonder how much Castillo would cost in terms of prospect capital. That guy is filthy.
Depends on how you evaluate the two pitchers. Money being equal, I would prefer Castillo. I just like him better as a pitcher. Those are decisions front offices must make. Trade for a guy you really like or spend a ton on a FA just because he’s available. Yes, Castillo would cost prospects. But if you’re looking to win in the near future, it might be better to acquire Castillo and use the Bauer savings to fill other needs.
I would be in the minority here but feel none of the big four remaining FAs are any great shakes. Let someone else overspend and revisit the FA market next winter when there are better and more players to choose from.
Agree Guests. There will never be a year the Jays have money and prospect capital to out bid other teams. But they’ll probably drop the ball worse than Derek Fisher!
It’s not evaluating the two pitchers, it is evaluating the pitching market this year versus next year. Would Bauer be the #1 free agent if he were available a year from now? Looks like it, yes.
Then it’s a game of “would you rather”. Would you rather sign Bauer now and trade later? Or trade for Castillo now and be left with pitchers not at Bauer’s level? Who knows what will be available on the mound.
But, the Jays would then have available money for one of the big SS free agents if that becomes a position of-need.
Here’s the next free agent class: mlb.com/news/baseball-s-next-free-agent-classes
Jal179,
I’d love Castillo as a Dodger. A better defensive team behind him, better offensive support, fairer ballpark. Just the stability. I like to hoard prospects even more than Friedman but would offer a heckuva package for that guy. I also wouldn’t mind Amir Garrett.
How is Bauer ahead of Scherzer and Kershaw?
Either of those guys got to face the Pirates as much as Bauer did in 2020 might have seen history smashed?
Your point still stands, just nitpicking out of curiosity.
Yeah the Dodgers would have more to offer than the Jays. The Reds should make this move as they’ll land a significant return
Are you giving Scherzer or Verlander a 5-year deal a year from now?
Some years Scherzer had rebuilding NL East teams and a weak AL Central. Verlander a weak AL Central and weakened AL West. We can play this game for all non-AL East pitchers.
I wouldn’t expect Scherzer or Kershaw to command 5 years next offseason is why they stand out to me.
Verlander is in Kluber territory, I don’t really consider him above Bauer at this point.
Not a lot of guys that I put above Bauer. Only 2 that I think would be safer bets than Bauer are Scherzer & Kershaw.
Scherzer is simply dominant when healthy. 2020 he was a little off. If the Nats start slow, he can be had in trade I bet. If not, he is at an age where 3 years is probable. At $100m probably. But I still think less risk than Bauer.
Kershaw has an old man’s back? I’d still give him 3 years and $100m next offseason though. Teams won’t likely be in on him. But they should. In my mind.
I like a lot of things about Bauer, but I also wonder if he would throw a ball onto the Buffalo highway if he got pulled early? And wonder how he does in a year when he doesn’t face the worst team in the league in a quarter of his starts. Getting the O’s in 10% of your starts is nice, but not as nice. He used to face some duds in the AL Central and was inconsistent then.
This is why I’d prefer to go with a few other options for now.
Kluber this year depending on cost.
Similar Verlander.
Scherzer or Kershaw regardless of cost.
Then Bauer, Tanaka range?
That’s just me.
Good chats.
How so sure?
Might see him debut in late 2021 as a utility type if his bat seems ready. Arguably the best pure offensive player in that draft according to milb.com official. Played everywhere but catch and pitch in college, bulk of time at alternate site was at SS. All signs point to him spending his first couple seasons in a flexible role like Biggio.
We very well could be seeing Biggio cement himself as the CF of the future in 2021 if the infield gets beefed up enough? As of today, it still seems like it’s Grichuk. As of 2021, a signing or trade hopefully throws a curve at that plan.
Swinging at ghosts again Filth. I mentioned Biggio, and that could very well happen if the Jays decide to grab two infielders. Until then, Martin is the CF of the future. His noodle arm will not hold up at SS unless he improves that part.
Oh yeah, I did watch tape on him. His throwing arm is not strong. Scouts agree that his arm is suspect.
But where does the CF thought stem from?
Anything I read says he plays all over and mostly got reps at SS at the alternate site. The team is making it up as they go yet you are certain about what they intend to do?
Martin was the Vanderbilt starting CF. That is where it stems from.
If he’s getting reps at SS, that’s all it is – reps. Game play says Martin’s a CF since that’s where he was playing.
The arm comment makes me think LF or DH? Generally we want to see a cornerstone CF have elite wheels, does he have that? His bat, flexibility, and attitude is what gets the raves from what I can tell.
Thank you. Commentary suggested he played all over the diamond in college. Not enough hours in my day to be scouring that deep for the most part.
Or 2B.
I wouldn’t really staple Martin to any positon just yet. He played mostly 3B while at Vandy, but he played a lot in the outfield, second base and first base. He even saw a little time at SS.
Awesome stuff friendos, thanks.
I was thinking super-U Zobrist style or just keep him ready so that the first big injury can determine where he slots in.
I stated last month any mlb team might be able to sign 3 mlb players for a total of 25 mil.mlb seventh ranked free agent signs for 8 mil a year.salary expectations are being depressed.most of the free agents left better sign soon or settle for crumbs.
Teams now have an option to sign 3 players versus 1 high priced free agent.
I’m curious how much this might affect realamulto, springer and bauer’s asking prices.
Kim’s signing helps the Yankees with one less suitor for kim to bid against.it allows the Yankees more room to not overpay.
it probably wolnt that much because none of them are infielders
Awesome. I hope they land him.
Not to overpay for lemahieu
I think the Jays have the best offers for players that don’t want to play in Toronto. When the Jays or another team land Kim before Jan 1st, the log jam should break and players should begin to sign.
Logjam won’t break until we know more about the status of the 2021 season. If I’m the Jays, I sign Kim since the money could make him worthwhile for the length of the contract.
If Kim is a Jay, DJL will sign immediately with Yanks once the Jays leverage is gone. Same goes with Springer to the Mets.
Should get fun after Kim signs either way.
That’s a very reasonable domino effect. JTR to the Jays…
I’m curious who will get Brantley. He’s my favorite FA of them all.
I would attempt to trade Vlady if a really good deal was presented.
define “really good”
“Blue Jays have reportedly made offer to everyone”
Go look at the KBO stats. The guys tearing it up there couldn’t cut it in the MLB and moved over there and i mean they’re tearing it up!
OPS over 1000 30-40 homeruns hitting .350
It’s hard to believe he would get a 5 year deal when he will most likely hit .250 with like 5 home runs.
Not a sure thing, but Kang, Thames, Ruf have all transitioned very well. Enough to tempt teams to keep mining for value from KBO.
Thames and Ruf already showed some promise here though.. they both did really well in AA and didn’t do too bad at the major league level before leaving.
Kang’s batting average dropped 70 points and his home runs were more than cut in half.
.356 40 homeruns KBO- 2014
.287 15 homeruns MLB-2015
Kim
.306 30 homeruns KBO-2020
.250 5-10 homeruns MLB-2021???
He’s still pretty young though and maybe whatever team gets him can do an escalating contract and start him off in the minors.
$4 mil first year (kind of like a signing bonus for a first round pick)
$2 mil 2nd year
$3.5 3rd year
$5 mil 4th
$6.5 5th
$7.5 6th
Nice take.
Thames and Ruf having the previous experience and no culture barrier to overcome surely helped in their returns.
Kang seemed like a headcase but the comparison might be the best we have available.
One thing that stands out to me is comparing Kang and Kim by age.
Kang wasn’t good enough to leave after his age 24 season. Seems the age 27 season made the MLB take notice? If Kim stayed in KBO, would he hit 50HR in his age 27 season? Glad he’s deciding to test himself.
Kim likely just entering his prime. That excites me.
If the Pirates could have had Kang for his age 25/26/27 seasons, maybe his MLB career looks a lot better?
Also, not too worried about the batting average on a guy that has developed enough that he walks more than he strikes out. Super rare, like Votto, Santana, Yadi only guys doing this multiple times as far as I can find. Trout and Freeman did it once. That excites me a lot.
I’d take a dozen HR and a .250 avg if he’s walking near a 10% clip.
Word has it that Kim is using a no-minors clause as a bargaining chip to determine which team he signs with. Treat him like a rule 5 guy to see if you can catch lightning seems worth it to me!
If Kim were putting up the same numbers in AA or AAA at the same age, he’d be called up and you’d be excited about it.
Yeah I would be excited about it sure..I would compare KBO to high A though…But I wouldn’t think he should get a 5 year 40 million dollar deal.
There are plenty of hitters that tear up the minor leagues then can’t hit very well once they make the majors.. a lot of those guys end up in KBO or Japan lol
Matt Chapman and Sean manaea for Cavan biggio, pearson. Who says no? A’s clear salary, fully knowing they have no chance of signing Chapman long term.
Jays say no, fully knowing they have no chance of signing Chapman long term.
And wondering why this young man has hip issues already? ARod and Utley still produced after hip issues, but not quite the same. There are probably examples that have recovered fine, but I still worry a bit about Matt Chapman’s future.
Jays would possibly counter trying to get Manaea or Bassitt for an arm that still has zero service time?
A’s say no. As good of a player as Biggio is/may be he is not close to Chapman’s caliber. We haven’t seen nearly enough of Pearson to say whether or not he’s better than Manaea. This is a clearly one sided deal for Toronto
Jays say no. Dodgers should consider Chapman.
I doubt Kim pushes Bichette off of shortstop. Bichette said he would open to switch positions for an impact player. While I like Kim, I don’t think he fits into that category. Hard to know how he adapts to MLB pitching. Bichette likely stays at short. Whether than move Kim to 3rd or 2nd is the question and that could depend on what else the Jays do in the offseason.
Agree. Bo only moves for Lindor.
If Bo fields like he did in the playoffs, or misses half a season due to injury, it would be nice to have a capable backup!
As a FAN of the Red Sox I would’ve really liked to see them go after Kim because I think he’s going to be quite the hitter in the majors. And they have an obvious hole at 2B — however I know that with Downs in AAA and the guys they’ve already got (along with rumors now of Kike Hernandez) it was never realistic that the Red Sox would be in on him. Having said that — I obviously also don’t want to see him go to another AL East team and bolster their roster for years to come — however all of that “Fan-stuff” aside… I do think he’s a good fit in Toronto and they obviously are serious about spending the $ to further cement themselves as a legitimate contender for years to come. So while the Red Sox fan inside me doesn’t want this to happen… my “superior intellectual baseball mind” (kidding but you get my actual point) sees this as a really strong fit for both parties involved and makes sense that they’d wind up as finalists for him in FA
Kolten Wong would be a fit for Boston, no? Only drawback is the plethora of lefty hitters in the lineup. But his glove is strong and could be a nice spark in the 2-hole.
How much would it cost to sign Kim Jung-un?
Probably not as much as you’d think
I’m not sure the Jays have the prospects to land Castillo. The Dodgers and Padres are much better.
While this is probably true, LA and SD both have been very open that they will not be moving specific young guys. When factoring that in(and taking it at face value), the gap is likely a lot closer. Especially if TOR is willing to discuss some guys in the majors now
This guy could end up being a huge steal for the Jays. Even with going lower then what analysts believe still think he will produce .260avg, 15Hr, 15SB, 3.0 war. For 40mil, that’s good value for a player that can play the whole infield.
Plus still belieb the Jays land JT and trade a catcher for Musgrove. All upgrades for this young team that could take the Yanks for the East
Don’t stop beliebin!
Finally another Jays fan who sees the true value in signing JTR. Gray and Musgrove are must target starters.
As a Mets fan, I was wary of this guy.If the KBO is roughly AAA caliber, as I have read, his numbers (e.g.: .294 career ba) don’t excite me. From scouting reports, his arm appears to be at the low end of acceptable for an MLB SS, and his future is likely at 2nd base. Talk of 3rd base seems to be uninformed due both to his arm strength and the .940 fielding percentage in his small sample in the KBO.
I get it that it is nice to snag talent without surrendering draft picks or prospects. But given the $$, personally, I would rather have a guy like our Luis Guillorme, who has shown to be capable at 2b, SS and 3b in the majors, hit .300, and is still pre- arb. But….people always have to chase the shiny new thing, right? 🙂
Fair thoughts. Especially the shiny new thing part.
Guillorme seems like he deserves a longer look.
I’m stuck on the plate discipline with Kim. Willing to walk, and not striking out a lot are pretty good signs. If there’s no pop, it’s like Nori Aoki, and not worth the amounts being discussed, but the potential makes it worth a dice roll to me.
A role like Guillorme to start out may be needed.
A Wil Flores path wouldn’t be terrible. I’d hope for higher of course.
Year 2 would hopefully be peak performance. If the bat translates, it shouldn’t matter as much where he’s playing.
Super excited to follow him to start out at least.
My Ohtani excitement died out fast (edit- that’s a lie, I still enjoy following Ohts, and hope he makes the Hall)
Was this site around when Ichiro came over? Imagine the bold statements about how his game wouldn’t translate at that time! Definitely not predicting Ichiro things for Kim in any way. Just a semi-related side thought.
Last daydream for now I swear…
KBO is roughly AAA comment makes me imagine if a player started out in AAA at 18, did well by 2nd season, seemed to have it mastered by 7th season, and got a chance at MLB age 25. They’d might be ready to shine right away in that scenario? Almost Ryan Howard style? haha.
I’m thinking if they were batting a career .294 with a marginal arm, AAAA might be their ceiling. As far as a good eye and walking….he hasn’t seen a major league slider.Isn’t that the one that chokes up Asian imports? Let’s see how many caught looking Ks he gets in the first few months.
Guillorme, remember, is only our utility guy. I’d beinteresting to see if Kim could displace Gimenez or Rosario, guys that have had vursts of excellence, at least, at the mahor league level at short. Either one would take a ton of glove talent to second, AND they do have the arm for third (as does JD, but not McNeil). Four or five years is a gamble on a guy who hasn’t even swung at an American pitch.
I don’t think any MLB team has worried about a guy’s average in about 20 years now.
Majority of your point is strong, just can’t resist pointing out about the use of avg. Guys thrive at .220 if they walk over 10% and slug over .500 in modern baseball. Blame Adam Dunn?
Interested how many PA he gets first few months more than anything. SD has a little bit of infield depth!
His K:BB isn’t likely as strong right away due to pitch caliber, good take. Some guys transition from overseas fine, others don’t. Ichiro and Matsui were fine. Countless others, not so much. Many have been capable as well. Tough call, they’re all gambles this time of year!
Many infield prospects in the organization. Not sure about this one…
Here is a little tidbit via Daniel Kim: Ha Seong Kim left Soeul for medicals destination unknown, two direct flights left Soeul one to Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas the other to Toronto. On a side note: Travel time to Dallas-Fort Worth 12 hours 21 minutes, to Toronto 12 hours 41 minutes.
Interesting that he knows he left for medicals but not where he’s going. Medicals only happen when there’s an agreement, pending physical. Both the Rangers and Jays have been attached to him in rumors, although stronger on the Jays side.
…and, of course, looks like neither. Kim signs with the Padres.
Now that I was looking at his numbers, I do hope the Jays land him. The guy BB per SO is excellent. Not to mention he steal bases as well. The pop is the icing to the cake. Perfect lead of guy to pair of with Bichette and Biggio at top 3 of the order.
I do hope they land Springer though. They need that guy!