A report surfaced yesterday linking two of the Pirates’ most recognizable players to trade conversations with the New York Yankees as the potential partner. The Yankees and Pirates have discussed a swap that would send Josh Bell and Jameson Taillon to the Bronx, though there’s no indication the two sides are close on a deal.
The Pirates would be selling low on both players, with Taillon on his way back from Tommy John and Bell coming off a rough 2020. Given Pittsburgh’s overall lack of appealing trade assets – and the Pirates’ need to maximize said assets – it would be surprising to see the Pirates part with the pair for anything less than what would seem like an overpay, given the pair’s current circumstances.
There’s another duo of Pirates whose names have been bandied about the trade wire even more often, however. Joe Musgrove and Adam Frazier have been the most frequently mentioned names in trade conversations, according to MLB Insider Jon Heyman (via Twitter).
Musgrove has arguably been the most consistent presence in the Buccos’ rotation since his arrival in the much-ballyhooed Gerrit Cole trade. A former first round draft choice of the Toronto Blue Jays, the former Astro has put up 3.6 bWAR in three seasons with the Pirates, pitching to a 4.23 ERA/3.69 FIP over 325 1/3 innings spanning 58 starts. Musgrove should make a very palatable salary in the range of $3.8MM his second time through arbitration, plus any acquiring team would get one final season of control beyond 2021.
Musgrove’s strikeout rate jumped to 12.48 K/9 over eight starts in 2020, well above his previous career-high of 8.30 K/9. His walk rate jumped with it, however, to a career-high 3.6 BB/9. His overall K/BB ratio of 3.44 K/BB actually tied with his rookie season for the lowest mark in his career. Still, there are some who see the 28-year-old as a potential breakout candidate, including Tim Williams of Pittsburgh Baseball.
Williams notes that Frazier profiles as a solid utility option for a contender. Frazier’s primary position is second base, but he’s appeared all over the outfield for the Pirates. Earlier in his career, he made fleeting appearances at shortstop and third base as well. Last season, he split his time between the keystone and left field.
Frazier – who turns 29 years old in four days – has never been accused of carrying a thunderous bat, but he’s been a largely-productive regular throughout his career, posting 2.4 bWAR per 650 plate appearances across five seasons. His .230/.297/.364 line was down across the board, though apologists could point to a strikeout rate of 15.2% that still saw him put the ball in play at a well-above-average rate, and a 7.4 BB% was well within his career norms. Looking a little deeper at Statcast measures like exit velocity and hard hit percentage, Frazier’s numbers dipped in 2020, but not so much to assume he couldn’t have rebounded over a full campaign.
DarkSide830
how bad is that team when you remove those four?
njbirdsfan
Not that far off the Phillies…for a ton less money.
Brixton
I mean, not even close to that, but cheap shots at the Phillies are always fun
brewcrewjazz
They are terrible with those 4. Pirates should have started the rebuilding process 10 years ago instead of trading for chris archer.
ronnsnow
That was Huntington’s fault. Cherington is in charge now.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Nutting still owns the team. Nothing will ever change
PiratesFan1981
I have to agree with you 100% on this. Sometimes I think back to Mark Cuban as a owner. But then again, he could have moved the team to Dallas. Either way, I often think of Cuban as owner and the state the Pirates would be right now.
Under Nutting we as Pirates fans have witnessed some of the worst trades in the history of Pittsburgh Pirates baseball. We seen A.Ramirez traded to the Cubs for pea nuts under Nutting. Then it goes onto trading one of the best closers in the game at the time Joel Hannahan for a bag of balls under Nutting. We witnessed Cole and Archer trades under Nutting. So many bad trades outweigh any good trades that was accomplished. It’s a ugly feat we as Pirates fans has to deal with. I agree that Nutting is bad for Pittsburgh and baseball. MLB won’t do anything to change that, or they’d done it years ago. The Pirates are run by one of the least knowledgeable baseball owner in the league. Nutting business tells you how little he knows about business and providing long term growth. He does just enough to make a profit and rinse/repeat for the next year. This guy should be chased out of Pittsburgh into exile.
Wick
You realize they got Melancon for Hanrahan right?
leefieux
10 years ago? 5 years ago they won 98 games.
Robertowannabe
They did start a rebuild around 2010. It peaked in 2015 and as been faltering since and time for a new rebuild. Archer never even entered into the picture until 2018.
KermitJagger
10 years ago is three years before their playoff run. I agree with you otherwise though. Management dropped the ball after the 2015 season. The fire sale probably should have occurred three years ago. The Archer signing, even if it had worked, was a few years too late.
ronnsnow
Hopefully far worse so the Pirates can get another top pick. Cherington is stockpiling talent that should start getting to MLB in 2023-24. 2025 could possibly see the Pirates as a scary young competitive team.
Chev Chelios
Yeah I think 2025 would be a perfect time to bust out and be ready to threaten the NL central
Dice 66
2025 ? Really ? Twins went last to first ! Things will happen long before that . 2023 Bucs in play for a while !
lolzmets
How bad is it for an adult not to capitalize their sentences?
ElGaupo77
All these guys are great dudes too. If you haven’t seen the Blacks players in baseball special MLB did with Harold Reynolds, Jackie Robinson’s daughter and Josh Bell (and a few others) please watch. We’re so blessed to have Bell in Pittsburgh.
rocky7
What does that have to do with the article?
stan lee the manly
…they are talking about trading Josh Bell? Seems perfectly relevant to me
rocky7
My reply was to Elguappo and his off article comment.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
And he responded for him
jkinser20
He’s talking about josh bell. The article is partly about Josh bell. Not hard to connect those dots
SalaryCapMyth
@Rocky7- You’re being a bit aggressive Rock. We can all see the connection so why can’t you? Is there something else you don’t like about ElGaupo’s comment?
JayKay
Wow, so there are people that are different from myself? Who knew! Glad to know MLB is trying to spread the word. Otherwise, I might never have found out by interacting with others as, I have my whole life.
kwolf68
Frazier is as pedestrian as they come. If they can coax a post-hype prospect like a Dustin Fowler or something similar that would be a huge win for the Pirates, but they will not get any meaningful prospects for Frazier.
Musgrove SHOULD command a very good return considering his trajectory he has shown and now the swing and miss is more reflective of his raw stuff. ANY team would like to strike on him at this stage.
julyn82001
… Then the Pirates should call A’s the jack master of all trades Billy Beane to discuss a deal involving Musgrove and Fowler. Billy is always open to discussions…
baseballpun
As Connor would say, Musgrove and Frazier are among the Pirates more recognizable players.
DarkSide830
by virtue of being in trade talks the most
rocky7
What does this MLB special you mention have to do with the article?
arthur blank_for owner
why does it bother you so much? lol
baseballpun
One could speculate….
rocky7
Don’t try and make a simple statement it into something more than what it is baseballspun!
rocky7
Arthur….Doesn’t bother me so much just wondering why such an off-article comment Bub!
Don’t try and make it into something more than what it is!
RunDMC
If I get to the end of all these posts and don’t see a third comment about the special, no Christmas fruit cake for you, rocky7.
its_happening
It doesn’t, Rocky. It’s not about the color of a person’s skin but the production they contribute to a ball team. A purple player hitting 1.000 OPS will find a home anywhere.
5toolMVP
Can said purple player pitch? …asking for a friend.
its_happening
He can enter the game with Deep Purple blasting on the speakers.
SalaryCapMyth
@Rock. You are “fascinated” with why this MLB special is brought up (which was already answered) and WE are fascinated with WHY you are so fascinated. If you can expect an answer from Gaupo than we can expect one from you.
TheTrotsky
I can’t believe I got this far down the page and he’s still talking about it.
BobSacamano
Fire sale! Red hot deals!! Buy a wonder-ball player, wrapped in seasons wrappings! Cash cube chance for any 45+!
DGHalos714
Get in there Perry! I think Musgrove can be a good piece for the Halos rotation. Maybe able to get him without sending Adell or Marsh….get it done!
bkbkbkbk
Lol. I think at most musgrove lands j Jones and a mid teens prospect.
gson
Hmm… A couple of points..
1. Musgrove is exactly what the Angels should be looking to acquire.. and exactly what the Pirates should be shopping.. Bell and Taillon should also be considered as well.. Neither one of these two guys have a future with the competitive Pirates team(s) of 2024 and beyond..
(Note: permitting the racial overtone comments only give power to divisiveness)
2. Adell is already an MLB’er.. Marsh is near MLB ready.. probably this year.. IF (and it’s debatable) the Pirates are going to be relevant / competitive by 2024 & onward, that would put both of these Angel players/prospects either at the end of their arbitration years or beyond. Neither should fit the competitive window of what the Pirates should be looking for..
So, the Angels should rethink who to trade..i.e. guys who will be maturing into ML level talent around 2023 to 2025… or trade those two guys (Adell / Marsh) with a third team that can provide prospects for the Pirates that will be MLB relevant in that competitive window..
Thoughts?..
HalosHeavenJJ
Marsh would come up in 2022 and be hitting his prime in 24 and 25. I’d prefer to keep him but he’s a great target for Pittsburgh.
Of the Bucs want to look further out, Jordyn Adams and Jeremiah Jackson would be good targets.
Adding a third team could work but makes it complicated.
SouthernBuc
As a Pirate fan I would be happy with Marsh or Adams being the lead for a return. If it is Marsh, I am not sure how much more would go back but I would probably hope for a lower level pitching prospect. If it was Adams I think I would hope for more than that, but he would clearly still be the key return. Maybe 2 other prospects but at lower levels. If Angels are looking to go all in (and I think they should), then I would say add Detmers and see how it might play out from the Pirates (Rodriguez, Brault, Frazier, or swap another prospect?)
bkbk
Ya’ll are nuts. Adell is a top 5 propsect and Marsh a top 30 on most sites. When in the last 10 years has a #3 or 4 pitcher alrady at his second arb year netted a return like that? Even truly elite pitchers at that stage rarely nabbed a prospect as highly rated as Marsh.
The bucs would be luck to get some combo of J Jones/Ky Paris and Livan Soto Stwarad Aquino.
MLB ready top prospects almost NEVER change hands. The ones that do are either a year or two off or have been up for a second and have ticked off clock time.
whyhayzee
This is kind of why baseball sucks. Roberto Clemente would be on the Dodgers. Willie Stargell would be on the yankees. Kent Tekulve would be on the Red Sox. And so on. What a great franchise back in the day.
baseballpun
I agree with you to a point, but this is more why Bob Nutting sucks than baseball as a whole.
HBan22
Nutting is a disgrace.
3Rivers
Absolutely
beersy
Both would be solid pickups, especially Musgrove, for the Padres if they can’t get Profar resigned or sign a “better” free agent starter. After signing O’Grady as a presumed super utility guy, not sure of the need/want for Frazier, but he has been a decent player in the past.
justwhoami
So is Kuhl no longer on the table? What happened there? (Haven’t researched it – I prefer this community)
joew
Chad is not one of those people you would really talk much about.
We might not be talking about him, but i’m sure if someone came up and said, “We want Kuhl” Ben would be like “Okay!” and take a 40ish prospect and/or a good amount of Int. Bonus money.
Brault is the one i’m surprised isn’t getting a lot more press. He looked great in 2020. If you are selling now is the time to sell him.
justwhoami
As a Yankees fan I looked at Kuhl’s basic numbers and he seems like a solid back end guy. What do you think would get a trade done?
joew
from the pirates side not much, probably a lower end prospect or two and/or cash/international bonus money.
his AAA numbers before getting called up where good. with a new coach might make a huge difference. also got hit with an injury bug.
bucincharlotte
The only chance this team has is to completely gut it and go with all young guys and get the top pick again. They will draft three times in the top 40 this year like last year and maybe again the following draft.
If they can’t find a few stars in that mix they have the wrong baseball people.
ronnsnow
I’m intrigued to see what kind of returns Cherington is able to get for these guys as opposed to Huntington’s strategy of demanding a teams top 3 prospects then settling for 5 fillers.
Chev Chelios
The Bucs should be trading any and all movable pieces away. It’d be fun to see them acquire some change of scenery types to see if they have any possible way of rebuilding value to move in later trades. I’d love to see Heyward, Andrus, Kyle Seager, Desmond, Segura, Odor, or other bad contracts end up there to see if they can flip any of them to a contender later on. I’m sure they could market those retread players to bring in fans (once the pandemic ends) and acquire prospects at the same time.
ronnsnow
I’m perfectly fine with that as long as they don’t bring in players that will take time away from young guys who should be playing. The following players should get 90% of the playing time at these positions. Hayes 3b, Tucker SS, Newman 2B, Reynolds LF. O’Neil Cruz needs a position, I think he best profiles in RF. As for 1B and CF, I’d say those are positions the Pirates can get players like that to fill in, assuming Bell is traded opening up 1B.
Though, Anthony Alford looked really good in CF in his short stint with the Pirates before getting hurt.
joew
I don’t think they should trade really any of them away (yet) unless there is an over pay.
Of the list to trade though, Fraizer probably at the top of that list since he is jamming things up in the middle. Polanco if you can offload him to make room for Swag and Alford.
If you do get that over pay on bell and Taillon then yeah.. pretty much everyone should be on the block.
joew
Frazier, a two time Gold Glove Candidate at 2nd base… If i was looking to buy that’s what i would classify him as. A 2nd basemen who can move if there is an injury. Generally he won’t be a drag on the lineup but won’t be leading it either.
Many of the pirates pitchers improved through the shortened season. My belief is that they where getting more work in with the new coaching staff. Given the success some Starters had recently with new teams.. Joe might bring in a bit more than his surface numbers suggest.
Either one won’t bring in top end talent but maybe both for one would give something better.
Joe is one of those guys i never want to see leave Pittsburgh though. He is just a Pittsburgh type of guy and plays hard whatever the situation, hitting, running and of course pitching.
Skeptical
Mudgrove reminds me of A.J. Not his pitching, but the fire in his belly. When AJ retired, the Pirates lost that fire IMHO.