Just as the Rays are reportedly listening to trade offers on Blake Snell to see if someone will bowl them over, the Reds are performing their own due diligence and at least listening to offers on right-hander Sonny Gray, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports. It’s important to note that there’s no indication Cincinnati is actively shopping Gray. However, Rosenthal adds that the Reds are seeking to pare back payroll in 2021, and it’s possible that a Gray trade could fill other needs on the big league roster while simultaneously lowering overall expenditures.
Gray, who just turned 31 earlier this month, would immediately stand out as one of most coveted arms in the game, although the price to acquire him would likely be reflective of that reality. He’s thrived since being traded to Cincinnati, posting a 3.07 ERA and 3.33 FIP with a 50.9 percent grounder rate and averages of 10.8 strikeouts, 3.7 walks and 0.82 home runs per nine innings pitched.
On top of that excellent performance, Gray is owed an eminently affordable $10MM in each of the next two seasons before the Reds (or another club) make the decision on a $12MM club option for the 2023 campaign. In a market that has remained strong for starting pitchers, at least early on, the appeal of Gray’s contract is all the more apparent. Already, we’ve seen Robbie Ray ($8MM with the Blue Jays), Drew Smyly ($11MM, Braves) and Charlie Morton ($15MM, Braves) command sizable one-year pacts.
Any package for Gray would surely need to be focused on MLB-ready talent. The Reds only just emerged from a years-long rebuilding effort and aren’t looking to tear things down by any account. That said, even with Trevor Bauer coming off the books, payroll could be tight. The Reds are looking at salary hikes for first-time arbitration players like Luis Castillo, Jesse Winker, Tyler Mahle and Amir Garrett. Others due raises in arbitration include catcher Curt Casali, righty Michael Lorenzen and trade deadline pickups Brian Goodwin and Archie Bradley.
The Reds also already have $101.375MM guaranteed to Joey Votto, Nick Castellanos, Mike Moustakas, Eugenio Suarez, Wade Miley, Raisel Iglesias, Tucker Barnhart and Gray. The projected salaries of their arbitration class could push that sum north by another $24MM or so, depending on non-tenders, and they’ll have to round out the roster with pre-arbitration players.
All in all, the Reds are likely looking at a payroll north of $130MM for the second straight season. Considering last year’s roughly $134MM Opening Day payroll (prior to prorated salaries) was already a franchise record, it’s not a shock that ownership is looking for ways to reduce spending without completely punting on competing in what should be a rather wide-open, four-team division race.
Remaining competitive would be the tricky part. Castillo gives the Reds a legitimate top-of-the-rotation presence even without Gray or Bauer present, and Miley has long been a durable source of innings. Lorenzen hopes to move into next year’s rotation, and Mahle had a solid 2020 showing. Still, it’d be a precipitous drop to go from a playoff rotation of Bauer, Gray and Castillo to a top three of Castillo, Miley and Mahle. The Reds could always add rotation help either as part of the return package for Gray or via the free-agent market, but arms of his caliber aren’t going to be available at a $10MM annual rate.
As for Gray’s potential market, he’d draw widespread interest, and history can provide a guide for a few potential fits. The Padres, Brewers and Twins were linked to Gray when the Yankees made it clear they were shopping him after the 2018 season — much different circumstances than at present. The Rangers were reported to have interest as well, although they’re unlikely to be in the mix now that they’re focusing on a youth movement.
Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi, meanwhile, was a member of the Athletics front office when Gray was drafted 18th overall and developed there, and we know San Francisco is looking for rotation help. The Blue Jays have also been in the hunt for rotation help and aren’t facing the type of payroll constraints felt by many of their rivals. The Angels seem to be perennially searching for starting pitching upgrades. Others would undoubtedly enter the fray.
It bears repeating that this appears to be a far different scenario than when Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said in 2018 that he was “open-minded to relocation” for Gray and conceded it was “probably best [for Gray] to try somewhere else.” Gray’s stock has skyrocketed since that time, and without some combination of MLB-ready young talent (ideally at shortstop and in the rotation), it’s hard to imagine a trade actually coming together. Even then, this would be a difficult trade to make for a Reds team intent on contending, but other clubs will be motivated to try to make them consider the possibility.
harrystyles
gimme gimme gimme
22Leo
“Mine? Mine? Mine?”
jim stem
“I may be a coward…”
DarkSide830
the news is just getting absurd at this point. Snell and Gray arent going anywhere.
xlovesbaseball
Darkside830? breaks all the real stories, follow him writing nowhere for no one to get all the real info!!!
DarkSide830
i mean lets be realistic now. anyone is available for the right price, but there is no way these guys are getting traded unless the return is bigger then they arw actually worth.
Brixton
i mean, TB got rid of Morton at market price.. if someone offers them 2 MLB ready young guys and a top prospect, why wouldnt they move Snell? I dont think that price is crazy.
Or they’re all just trying to bait the Angels owner into trading Adell lol
LordD99
The Rats are always a wild card. Snell’s salary is about to ramp up, so it wouldn’t shock me if he’s moved. He has no more than one season left with the Rays. Gray I’d be more surprised at moving.
LordD99
Rays. Although Tampa Bay Rats opens up disturbing marketing opportunities.
aaroncook05
Let’s be honest adell is a franchise player I don’t think anything short of an elite top 10 player gets adell
gbs42
Adele is a top prospect but he certainly is not a franchise player, at least not yet.
empirejim
Franchise player with his .161 avg 3 homers and 7 RBI’s in 38 games franchise player???
aaroncook05
Look at Christian yelich this year .329 to .205 horrible year but definitely a franchise player. Quote me on this adell in the next two years will be in the all star game at age 23
aaroncook05
Obviously referring to his potential
LaFlamaBlanca
Lovely take on judging a 20 year olds production from a season for which he wouldn’t have made his debut until late into the year were it not for the pandemic and Minor league ball being non existent. If you know how to evaluate talent, go watch the kid during batting practice or outfield drills, the kid is the real deal, the sound off his bat when he squares is up is a thing of beauty. Adell will be absolute monster once he develops, the guy isn’t even of legal drinking age yet, so I would pump the brakes a bit before giving up on him.
trout27
Like all prospects we are talking about potential. With Adell there were some concerning parts to his game. His swing and miss rate was an alarming 48%. His route to balls showed some flaws in his ability to play above average outfield. He needs some time in AAA to work on his bat to ball skills and his outfield skills.
He is still potentially a monster but nothing is a given.
gbs42
I’m taking the word of Trout here, since he had the opportunity to see Adell close-up.
All kidding aside, Adell has lot of potential, and I hope he realizes it and becomes a star. But he has work to do to get there, and it simply takes time for a player to prove his talent plays at the MLB level.
I’m not saying this as justification for the Angels to trade him for Snell or Gray. Team leadership (and yes, with ownership’s influence/intrusiveness) will have to decide the best path for the team.
BobSacamano
The only thing absurd is your failure to comprehend the objectives of some of these MLB teams. It worked out well for CLE. It can work out for TB and Cincy. Trying looking at this with more than one perspective. 2021 is all but certain!
DarkSide830
work how? Cleveland ended up winning bupkis with their strategy and have been at best treading water in a division with at a better team in MIN and three teams with their arrows pointed up.
gbs42
They did win the AL pennant in 2016 and went to extra innings in Game Seven of the World Series.
BobSacamano
Bupkis? Hedges, Naylor, Quantrill, Arias, Cantillo, and Miller is bubkis??? For 1 season and 19 innings of Clevinger. It doesn’t matter where the rest of the division is, where do you think CLE would have been if they held out? Are you joking
BobSacamano
Ask yourself, if there is one team who would redo this trade who would it be? The decision CLE made before the trade and hindsight is remarkably uncomplicated. Their playoff window was shrinking and they made a choice that presumably benefited the team years down the road; among other things the dividends it has already paid . That’s including Clevinger returning to form in 2022.
BobSacamano
The cost of Clevinger alone next year will cover these 6 players.
Francys01
The Reds need the money to sign Bauer. Although, it will be difficult because big market teams will be competing with the Reds.
xlovesbaseball
The reds have zero chance at Bauer. They are reducing payroll and trading Gray still puts them nowhere near what Bauer will cost. Thank poor management from the front office and a $101 million spent already on a team that could hardly squeeze into the last playoff spot in expanded playoffs in a short season and will now lose it’s best pitcher. Hope Reds fan enjoy Moose, Castellanos, and Votto getting worse, fatter, and more expensive. All while the architects of this years long mess keep getting promotions like Kroll somehow did.
bot
Spot on. Possibly worst franchise in baseball. Classic Cincinnati
earmbrister
Yeah, you both are talking out of your backsides. X, why would the Reds trade Gray at $10MM/year to afford Bauer at twice that? As for your “concern” about three Reds getting worse, fatter, and more expensive, all three are signed long term. And I don’t know that I’d call any of them fat or even predisposed to obesity. As for getting worse, you’d be nuts for betting against a Castellanos bounce back. Moose will also probably bounce back, which leaves Votto. He isn’t going to win the MVP, but he’ll probably be league average. Now this might be news to a amateur baseball follower, but the team friendly value in a long term contract is in the early years. Votto has certainly provided that.
Bot, you’re a troll cause we all know who the perpetual bad franchises are. When was the last time your team won a championship?
earmbrister
Oh bot, you’re a Reds “fan”? Hey genius: the NYY have just ONE championship this century. And their budget is “just a bit” larger than the Reds. Please root for another team, Cincinnati is not worthy of you.
gbs42
One year of Bauer it will cost about the same amount as the three years still left on Gray’s contract. Under those terms, I gladly would take Gray.
ksoze
That was my thought. If the Reds were looking for room on the payroll to sign Bauer, then I’d be cool with trading Gray. He would bring back a nice return, and we still have a top pitcher in Bauer. If it is just budget cuts, then I’d be upset about it. The most likely option is they just got some people sniffing around to see if they’d trade a quality pitcher who has a nice contract.
pinkerton
I’d love to have Trevor Bauer in a heartbeat
But the hot stove is nothing more than a hot plate right now. No one’s gonna spend money, no one’s gonna trade. It’s all going to be a bunch of bupkis until January probably
xlovesbaseball
Morton signed today, well predicted
22Leo
Bupkis! Bupkis, I say!
M.C.Homer
Bupkis funniest thing I’ve heard since Scioscia’s “poppycock”.
Bupkis Poppycock, what a band name…
OurPadreWhoArtInSD
The market is actually moving faster than the last two years. Stroman, Gausman, Morton, Smyly and Ray are already gone. The reason trades are being mentioned is because the SP market has been moving quickly. Teams that miss out will turn to the trade market.
LordD99
Gausman and Stroman get and take $18.9M QO’s. Ray, Smyly and Morton all landing nice salaries. There is no discount on starting pitcher salaries this off season. Bauer is by far the best starter available, but Tanaka’s contract ticks up with every signing. He’s the name that gets mentioned the least, but he’s the most consistently good starter out there.
Bill M
I think Tanaka isn’t mentioned much because everyone seems to think he’ll just re-sign. But who knows? Money talks & starting pitching money already has a lot to says
Dorothy_Mantooth
Free agency really won’t take off until after the non-tender date (Dec 5th I think). This is truly going to be an offseason of the haves and have nots. Teams who can afford to add payroll will have a once in a generation opportunity to improve their teams with established veterans, while other competitive teams are going to be forced to pare talent / payroll. It will be Very interesting to see who the buyers vs. the sellers are. Atlanta and Toronto appear to be buyers so far.
davidk1979
Hello Mets!
NMK 2
I was gonna say the Mets should be interested. I looked into Sonny Gray before he went to Cincinnati as a possible rebound candidate, and I think he may thrive being in the shadows of Jake, Thor and other players compared to the spotlight with the Yankees.
That said, this is contingent on Cohen taking on an expensive second player to reduce the talent cost. We can’t afford another Kelenic-Cano deal, but offering a mid-level prospect/surplus player for a mid-rotation arm and a bench piece could be a win-win.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Sonny Gray is going to cost a lot more than a mid-level prospect. He’s a solid #2 SP in the NL and is signed to an affordable deal for the next 3 years. Cincinnati will only move him for significant talent. Package will probably require a young, established major league player (or pitcher) + a Top 3 prospect from an organization. Otherwise, there is no reason to move him. If they just want to reduce salary, they could move Castellanos for a mid-level prospect.
NMK 2
Gray is a solid pitcher in his current situation, but he was a disaster with the Yankees.(ERA 4.90 in 2018!). He was solid in Oakland and Cincy, which suggests it’s more about the environment than league.
This article also indicates the Reds – who’ve always been light on payroll – are in a bit of a budget crunch. They can demand an organization’s top five prospects, but if the ask is too high they won’t get it and will have to make moves to save money. With the richest owner in baseball now overseeing a team that needs pitching help, there’s a real opportunity to help both clubs. But blindly demanding a top prospect, an established player and more won’t get anywhere.z
BTW, nobody’s gonna offer a premium package for Castellano. He has a track record of poor defense, is tied to an increasing salary ($14 mil in 2021 to $20 mil in 2024) and had a down year in 2020. He’s the type of player you may package with better talent to lighten the books, but you won’t get a top 10 prospect for him alone.
LordD99
Not sure a return to New York would be a smart move, even in a different uniform.
NMK 2
That’s a fair point, and a risk that Cohen/Alderson would have to investigate. My opinion is it’s not the high-profile Yankees and there are some other big names he can hide behind, but maybe big cities just aren’t right for Gray.
We’ll find out in the coming months.
Bruin1012
Dorthy you are absolutely right there is no way that you are going to get Gray for a mid level prospect no way. If that is all anyone offers a solid starter with 2 years control and an affordable option third year for the team that gets him. If teams tried to lowball them into offering just a mid level prospect Reds would simply keep him.
earmbrister
NMK, I’m sorry but Gray is NOT a mid-rotation arm, nor just a “solid” pitcher.
Gimme a break.
Ancient Pistol
I’m starting to get the impression teams may have lost a boatload of money and are just looking to shed payroll. There’s no reason why the Reds and the Rays should be looking to jettison these pitchers.
gbs42
There may not be a good reason, but it may be excuse/justification for reducing payroll.
Rangers29
Question; With guys like Gray and Snell emerging as trade candidates, when should the Rangers start pushing rumors on Lance Lynn like “There are two teams we have spoken to” type things? Do they wait until guys like Gray and Snell get traded, or do they push the Lynn rumors a ton now and try to make him the first off the market? Which one drives the price up more?
OurPadreWhoArtInSD
I’m sure JD will wait until some more dominoes fall. He likes teams to come to him when he’s selling and tries to maximize leverage. He’s slow and methodical on the trade market, which is often why he gets cut out of deals or teams go elsewhere.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Even without COVID and the current MLB financial crisis, it is not uncommon for teams to state that one of their better players is available for the right price. Neither Tampa nor Cincinnati are moving either pitcher unless they get a king’s ransom in return. These teams realize (as should Texas with Lynn) that outside of Bauer, their pitchers are better than any FA pitcher available and they are signed to below market deals too. So they are hoping that they can pique the interest of a contender with good prospects (like SD) and get a massive return back. The only quality signed pitcher likely to move is Lance Lynn unless the offers for Snell or Gray are too good to pass up. Think Devi Garcia, Clint Frazier & another good prospect for Snell.
worthington
GIants should fill their needs with FA’s not trade prospects. Would be idiotic at this point.
JoeBrady
One more team that thought their players would never age. When will these guys learn that players like Votto, no matter what their skill set is, cannot play until they are 40. Votto has probably aged better than most, but the formula is basically always the same. 3 good years, 3 mediocre years, and 4 bad years.
baseballpun
Team with player will not hang up on other GMs. More at 11.
JoeBrady
I’d also be leery of Gray. It looks like a nice contract, but he had an awful September. 11 walks in 14.1 IPs is often a warning sign of arm issues.
joeshmoe11
He was injured and missed time. Came back and made 2 starts, throwing 10.1 innings, 3 ER with 12k/5bb. He’s fine
joeshmoe11
Had a back issue
99 Captain Judge
Just keep this guy as far away from the Yankees as possible. Pass.
hammertime510
Oakland A’s
bot
Reds are terrible ! Spend 3 years building a competitive team and now ready to tear it down after falling on their face. Reds were the most disappointing team in 2020, have the worst manager in all of baseball, and now are willing to sell off to rebuild again in a pathetic NL central.
REDS OWNERSHIP ARE MORONS.
Been saying it for 5 years, but this time I’m serious. Im done with the reds and now searching for a new favorite team
joeshmoe11
You will surely be missed. I’m hoping the front office will give you a fruit basket as a parting gift
earmbrister
Too funny joe
ekrog
Bengals?
earmbrister
Don’t let the door hit you where the Lord split you. You won’t be missed
What true fan swaps out his favorite team? I’ve been following the same teams for 50 years. Bon voyage
Judge_Smails45
Dodgers need a solid Starting pitcher. Trade Gray and prospect for Corey Seager. Sign Bauer to a one year big money contract. Extend Seager. Dodgers trade for Lindor. Give up Lux to Indians. It’s a win for everyone.
empirejim
No way that Gray and a prospect are going to get Seager from the Dodgers. No way Lux gets you Lindor from the Indians. All that to get a solid starter because Kershaw, Beuhler, Price, Urias, May, and Gonsolin cant get it done?
BartoloHRball
lol…I’m pretty sure the Indians would take Lux + a couple of lotto ticket prospects for Lindor….*if* LAD pick up all of the $. $21m for Lindor limits suiters to likely 4 or maybe 5 teams…max. LAD, Mets, Yankees, Blue Jays, and maybe the Phillies? Philly seems like such a mess right now. Yankees are likely more focused on DJL first.
Gray and Snell are being floated to see if a team will overpay. As a Mets fan, both would be *way* too costly in prospects bc the Mets are thin in the minors. They are better off taking on an upside pitcher w. a bad contract and/or paired w. a bad contract. Then they can sign a guy like Bauer, and then it’s:
deGrom
Bauer
Stroman
*acquired pitcher*
Peterson
Lugo back to the bullpen. Syn coming back in w. limited innings as the #5.
DarkSide830
the Dodgers have a whole rotation of “solid starting pitchers” already
davidmp2
No way in hell Reds actively shop a top 20 pitcher at $10m per year or that their purported interest in doing so is tied to lowering salary.
Steven Adams
The Reds would be crazy to trade Gray. That being said, I hope he goes to an actual contender.
mike156
I’m just going to have to wince every time Sonny Gray’s name is mentioned.
Signed, sad Yankees fan.
DrDan75
Translation: We will listen to offers for Sonny Gray. If you want to pay us way more than his market value, we may or may not bite depending on what ya got.
He’s not going anywhere.
DarkSide830
that’s my read. nothing wrong with probing the market. i wouldnt hate my team for making a deal like that if the return is monumental proportional to the player’s actual value.
luclusciano
I hope the Yankees get him.
Jk
pjmcnu
That’s it, cheap owners, give us all your good players! Keep your billions in your pocket, and save $20M. Come on out of the woodwork….
jimij
Reds would b fools 2 trade Gray, it there one shot to still contend, I rather have Gray than Bauer, they need a pitcher to fill void and go with lineup for a full season
jacd11
If Gray is on the block I want to either trade him to KC for Merrifield or work something out with Boston for Benintendi. To back fill the roataion spot Im a little interested in what Boddy can do with Matthew Boyd from Detroit. Barnhart and Shogo should be available to help get it done.
Murphy NFLD
I seen an interview were sonny said he had so much trouble in NY because he was constantly under a microscope as he was playing for a big market club. I dont think the jays or halos would be good for him
mbauza25
Reds need to move Suarez to short , castellano to 3rd , trade tucker sign J, T trade Iglesias , and and sign Bauer
earmbrister
Suarez has 24 innings at SS in the last half dozen years. He’s no longer a SS, he’ll remain at 3B. Signing Bauer might be a pipe dream.
mikemcsaudi
I’ll give you two bagels and a bag of donuts.
DockEllisDee
Make it a bag of bagels and a tub of cream cheese and you’ve got yourself a deal friend
GarryHarris
If anyone, the Reds should trade Raisel Iglesias. Maybe its coincidence but, iIt seemed that every game I watched him pitch in, he contributed heavily in losing those games.
jimij
Cant believe Reds would even consider trading Grey, its tough to acquire top rate pitchers, letting him go would take away one of the strengths they built upon “pitching”, if anything they should say goodbye to Bauer and sign another 2nd tier quality starter or two, pitching wins games!! Don’t b stupid
diehardfantd
Gray is going nowhere unless something crazy comes along like someone taking Votto and Votto giving up his no trade rights. Gray has a great relationship with Derek Johnson and his salary is very budget friendly for the Reds