The reigning American League champion Rays could part with one of their most recognizable players. They have informed other teams that “they’re open to the idea of” dealing left-hander Blake Snell, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com writes, though the Rays aren’t “actively” looking to trade him.
It could be a game-changer if the Rays actually are willing to deal Snell, considering the lack of front-end starters on the open market after Trevor Bauer. Snell was an American League Cy Young winner in 2018, and though he hasn’t been as successful since then, any team would be happy to plug him into its starting staff. The 27-year-old posted a 3.24 ERA/4.25 FIP with 11.34 K/9, 3.24 BB/9, a career-best 49.2 percent groundball rate, and a 95.1 mph average fastball velocity over 50 innings in 2020.
The Rays signed Snell to a five-year, $50MM extension before 2019, but the low-budget team could now move on from him if it receives an enticing enough offer. Snell still has three years and $39MM left on that deal, but that should be a very appealing contract to clubs that need help in their rotation. Feinsand names the Braves, Angels and even the Mariners as clubs that are “believed to be interested in” Snell.
I mean… Not a bad Mariners fit if they can extend him 🙂
He won’t be a FA until 2024. No need to extend yet.
Even better! I think getting a hometown kid like him to lead the rotation is important, considering that proximity to home has been a huge problem in Mariners’ history.
He’s a hometown thug boy. Thinks he’s some street punk! You can have him seems like Ray’s where paying attention to his stupid rants on the internet last year!
It’s shocking how much a thug he is . Barley can form a sentence.
Ha!
Street punk? Are you like 80 years old? Lol.
Maybe, except I’m not keen on the front end of of the rotation having lefties back to back, especially with Marco Gonzales in that fold.
If the Mariners are going have Marco, he can only be the two, then he is going to be at a distinct disadvantage behind a lefty ace.
A big RH Ace is the ticket, not only for the Mariners but for Gonsalez.
This is the type of trade i said the Mariners would be looking for. Headliners could possibly be Marco, Trammel, a PTBNL which could be Haniger if he comes back and looks good. We would have to pay down some of his contract though. Then a couple of guys in the top 30. Cal could be the C they like or Torrens. Would be a nice package and bring Snell home. The many trades these two teams have made together would help it along too. This has M’s all over it.
Marco is under club control through 2025. I don’t see Marco being traded unless the team goes into another rebuild. Team friendly contract and leader in the clubhouse. I would swap out Marco with Sheffield in your scenario.
Since the start of the 2018 season, which includes Blake Snell’s Cy Young campaign, Snell has posted 8.1 fWAR in 65 starts while Marco Gonzales has posted 9.1 fWAR in 74 starts. Since the start of 2019 season, Snell has posted 3.3 fWAR in 34 starts while Gonzales has posted 5.6 fWAR in 45 starts.
With his favorable contract, Gonzales is worth more than Snell.
Snell has three years and $39 million remaining on his contract while Gonzales has four years and $30 million remaining on his contract with a $15 million team option for a fifth year.
You will trade Jared Kelenic and like it while Blake Snell becomes Chris Archer 2.0
Snell has 9.1 war according to baseball reference since 2018. While Gonzalez only has 7.5 War. While I do think that Gonzalez is a good pitcher that will bring value to a rotation. However, he’s not an Ace. Gonzalez doesn’t give you ace type numbers like Snell may. Gonzalez also doesn’t strike many people out and doesn’t have the best ERA in the league. Snell had a 1.80 ERA in his Cy Young year and had 221 strikeouts.
Since the start of the 2019 season, Blake Snell has an ERA of 3.96 in 34 starts while Marco Gonzales has an ERA of 3.76 in 45 starts.
Snell’s strikeout approach may contribute to his arm problems that limit his innings and starts while Gonzales is more durable with his Greg Maddux-type approach. This year Snell totaled 50 innings in his 11 starts while Gonzales totaled 69.2 innings in his 11 starts.
Snell has an AAV of $13 million over the remainder of his contract while Gonzales has an AAV of $7,5 million over the remainder of his longer contract.
Blake Snell posted a stellar Cy Young season in 2018 but since then the lefthander ranks 55th among all pitchers in fWAR with 3.3:
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&…
… ranking behind, among others, teammate Ryan Yarbrough, Chris Bassitt and Kirby Yates.
Even less kind to Snell is bWAR with 2.5 over the past two seasons.
Blake Snell is a talented pitcher but let’s not overvalue him.
Kelenic alone does not get that trade done. While Kelenic certainly looks a good everyday player he has only played 21 games at AA. Cautionary tale of Jurickson Profar who was 19 when he was in AA and hailed as the best prospect in the minor leagues. I would love for us to get Snell but I don’t have a lot of faith in Dipoto and even less in Kevin Mather and John Stanton to bring in a front line starter who we really need. In 2019 the Mariners had the third worst attendance since moving into Safeco Field. They were only 69,189 fans better than their worst season in Safeco. That year we averaged only 22,122 a game as the only ML team in the Pacific Northwest. Wonder what will happen to attendance if Portland gets a shiny new toy? Here we have a chance to grab a very team friendly contract for a frontline starter who grew up in the shadows of Safeco Field and would be an instant fan attraction so watch us blow it. I sure hope he doesn’t wind up in Oakland, Texas or God forbid the Astros. The knife would be stuck deeper and twisted harder if he wound up with the Angel. Thank God they probably don’t have a deep enough inventory to get him but you never know what could happen now they have a new GM.
That’s the package you think Tampa will take for Snell? Really?
Snell is not an Ace either. An Ace goes deep in games, something Snell has proven incapable of doing.
@rjc
Unfortunately that sentiment will be repeated by lots of corporate decision makers, in many cities and neighborhoods
where things were out of hand. No MLB Team for Portland and no CVS, Kogers, Best Buy etc for all of those other areas.
Stupid Portland have fun.
Also be mindful Snell pitches for Kevin Cash and the Rays. Rays philosophy dictates a starter should rarely ever face the batting order a third time. So often Rays starters will get pulled in the 5th or 6th with favorable pitch counts.
Also Marco did face the weak West teams whilst the East was a lot stronger in terms of competition.
Snell was injured in 2019. Returned to form for the most part in 2020, including shredding the best lineup in the game in gm 6 of the world series
kenphelps44 Portland getting a MLB team is about as likely as San Jose getting one, which is zero %. For the exact same reason. Portland is in the M’s territorial rights, just like San Jose are in the Giants. You can’t force a team to revoke the rights, just ask the A’s.
@muskie73
The difference between an ERA of 3.96 and 3.76 is pretty much nothing. Snell’s IP per start well be a factor of Cash’s decision-making more than Snell’s performance of preferences, as we saw in the WS.
For those still hoping to win the Dumbest And Yet Most Revealing MLBTR Comment Of The Day Award…you can stop. Ol’ RJ just locked it down….
@kenphelps Do you really think many fans are driving 3 hours up the 5 from Portland to see games in Seattle? Its 96 miles to SD from Anaheim and 29 miles from the Big A to Dodger Stadium.. Not much crossover in fans.
Portland already has a site secured for a new stadium and $1.3 billion in funding committed by investors. Those investors are paying $37.5K per month just to secure the option to buy that stadium site.
The Portland Diamond Project has down payments for 6500 seat licenses from people interested in purchasing season tickets when the stadium is built and a MLB team is brought in. I am pretty sure that is more people that have committed to buying tickets for a team that doesn’t exist in a ballpark that hasn’t been built yet than the Miami Marlins or Tampa Bay Rays have in season ticket holders.
They are in one of the largest media markets in the US that doesn’t have a MLB team.
The riots that lasted a few days are not going to keep MLB out of Portland.
Compass- you’re dead set on trading Marco!! I feel like you’ve pitched Marco in a variety of possible trade packages over the past few months! I get your point: he’s been healthy since he came to Seattle, he’s largely exceeded expectations, you can count on him keeping your offense in the game in just about every one of his 30 starts. He is on a team friendly contract. He will be a team leader for you and it seems like he is only going to get better.
My question to you Mr. Red Navigation instrument is: doesn’t that describe a SP that you want to keep in your rotation? I feel like you are hung up on the point that our OD starter is not a #1 SP in a championship team. You say he’s more of a 3 or a 4 but World Series winning teams need good SP3’s and SP4’s as well. If that’s what Marco’s true value is then let him fill that Game 3 or Game 4 starting role in a Seattle Uniform. It’s not like the Mariners are bursting at the seams with SP’s with Marco’s resume. To me, trading away top talent and a good SP on a team friendly contract for Snell feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Re: trading minor leaguers for a pitcher like Snell, personally I think we need to keep as many of the Nationally ranked top prospects as we can until at least the 2021-22 offseason. I feel as if the roster is still more than one All-Star type/ stud player away from a being playoff team. We would also be better served hanging on to all of our top OF and SP prospects for the much better 2021-22 FA class. We also need to be prepared in case of injuries or if Logan Gilbert, Kelenic or any of our young players have epic struggles similar to Evan White or Jo Adell in 2020*
I could be way off base but I honestly 100% believe the only reason there is an article linking Snell with Seattle is solely because of his hometown roots.
Snell’s average
Innings per start had little to do with Cash’s approach. As one who has watched every game the Rays have played from the beginning, I will tell you that in most of his starts he had 100
pitches by the end of the 5th.
Imagine saying I don’t want an Ace because he is left-handed
Absolutely, he had earned the right to pitch to Mookie. As a Rays fan who has watched Blake for every game the last 3 years….I think he lacks confidence in this stuff. So many times, he pulls on his hat, stalks around the mound, and then throws a goose egg. I think alot of this stress is caused by Cash and his fast hook (which we all saw during Game 6). This is why I don’t know really what to think about Snell. But he is a Seattle “street thug” which is a beautiful thing to behold…even in sub-tropical Florida.
Snell deserved to pitch that game in that situation with Mookie end of Story
This ^
Absolutely, he had earned the right to pitch to Mookie. As a Rays fan who has watched Blake for every game the last 3 years….I think he lacks confidence in this stuff. So many times, he pulls on his hat, stalks around the mound, and then throws a goose egg. I think alot of this stress is caused by Cash and his fast hook (which we all saw during Game 6). This is why I don’t know really what to think about Snell. But he is a Seattle “street thug” which is a beautiful thing to behold…even in sub-tropical Florida.
TB would want Kelenic.
Mariners are tooooooooo far away from contending.
Conversations would start with at least one of Kelenic-Rodriguez-Gilbert-Hancock, and probably require two of those names.
Sure, he would fit nicely, but it’s unlikely we’ll see elite prospects swapped for a player like Snell. It’s unlikely we’ll see elite prospects swapped for anyone this offseason.
Hey it is halohonker spouting more ignorance and Dipoto hate.
The reason I put Marco in there I just don’t see him as an ace. I know his numbered are good but I think with a good team he is a 3-4 starter maybe a 2nd. I could be way off don’t know.
I wouldn’t trade Kelenic for him or Rodriguez. I don’t see projected star position player worth a starter. They will have more affect overall than Snell would. Of all these high rated prospects odds are one or two will not live up to the hype. Hopefully since we have had more than our share of failures we beat those odds. If you take my first proposal and pay Marcos salary for a year and a big portion of Hanigers that should make it a bit better.
I am not going to say we don’t need an ace but there is enough pitching talent coming up don’t give up what would hurt the team for one. Deal from strength right now OF and pitching prospects. Will be interesting to see where he goes. He won’t go to the Angels because he would be embarrassed to have halohonker as a fan.
Since the start of the 2019 season Marco Gonzales ranks 19th among all pitchers in fWAR, just ahead of Yu Darvish, Walker Buehler and Aaron Nola:
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&…
Trivia: Marco Gonzalez had his offseason home in Seattle before the St. Louis Cardinals traded the lefthander to the Mariners.
Blake Snell apparently maintains his offseason home in suburban Seattle:
theathletic.co.uk/1530002/2020/01/21/2018-cy-young…
That would be pretty steep. I can’t imagine the M’s being willing to offer any of those prospects. A package of Trammell, Dunn, and Bishop too light? Maybe sub Sheffield for Dunn.
This is pathetic Rays get to the World Series and now cry poor.
Problem is that, relatively speaking, they are.
It’s more impressive that they made it as far as they did (and often do), considering their finances and almost total lack of a fan base…..
I think that the Rays deserve credit as the one team that maybe on an historic basis got so much from so little resources.
Unfortunately, the Marlins claimed the moniker “Bottom Feeders” because that is what the Rays are. The “buy low” and “sell high”. This is because of limited resources and fan base. They have developed a model (albeit not desirable) that some struggling franchises should look at. to develop your analytics, look for desperation in other team, and seal the deal. Look at the Chris Archer, Price, and other trades.,
Patino, Abrams and Weathers or something along those lines from the Padres could facilitate a trade.
The Padres would say no, even if a bit hesitantly. Patino and Abrams are blue-chip prospects and Weathers is also incredibly good.
Preller will absolutely be doing everything he can to get his hands on him. He’ll have to sell a big portion of a farm already pretty depleted by trades though. Abrams is almost surely in the package (many sites say he could be the top prospect in baseball soon) but Patino is likely someone they hold on to. The three of Abrams, Patino, Weathers likely gets it done for the Ray’s but is too much for Preller to trade.
Abrams, Weathers certainly, and then a fill in of a couple mid level prospects. 2 of Lawson, Thompson, Head, Wilcox? Crazy enough that might not be enough for the Ray’s to bite. Maybe Morejon in the package as well
I’d love him in a Padre uniform alongside Lamet Gore and Patino, though.
Final offer Abrams, Morejon, Weathers and Hudson Head.
You lost me at abrams and head
I don’t see the Padres making that trade. It’s just too many top prospects to give up for Blake Snell. Abrams looks like a future star so he is definitely off-limits. Patino and Weathers look good, and I wouldn’t trade both of them for Snell.
My trade proposal for Snell would be one of Weathers and Patino, along with Morejon and and a couple other lower level prospects. That would give the Rays a prospect with potential top-of-the-rotation upside, and a pitcher in Morejon who looks like a good middle of the rotation guy. I think that is pretty fair for a pitcher who has had a checkered injury history.
And you would be promptly hung up on by the Rays mgmt.
I would rather keep my top prospects than give them away and lose the trade.
So these trade talks where suddenly the Padres are either giving up a top prospect or they don’t have enough is exactly what myself and many other fans were saying would happen when Preller gave away half the farm+his MLB trade chips for a single postseason run, to save his job..
That’s different. The only top prospect we gave up at the deadline was Trammell, who has struggled since 2018. Most of the guys we traded are either lottery tickets or guys who project to be average/below average starters. These trade proposals involve the Padres giving up Weathers, Patino, and Abrams, all elite prospects for only one pitcher. That’s why I am criticizing this trade proposal.
Dan55-Yes,ask the Pirates how their trade with the Rays went when they gave up three prospects for a star pitcher.
@Mendoza Line 215 he doesn’t even have to do that. Padres got burned trading three prospects and three young major leaguers for Mike Clevinger only 3 months ago.
@ RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks The Padres didn’t get burned from the Clevinger trade. We gave up Naylor, Hedges, Quantrill, Cantillo, Arias, and Miller for Clev. Hedges was our backup catcher, Naylor was our backup outfielder, Quantrill was a long reliever, Arias was blocked by Tatis, Miller was blocked by Machado, and Cantillo was just our 5th best pitching prospect. None of those guys projected to be future building blocks in San Diego.
Sure, Clev’s injury means that the Padres will end up losing this trade, but based on what we gave up, I wouldn’t say that we got burned by the Indians.
@dan55 all of those guys could have been traded for something else. Something that wasn’t about to miss the 2021 with his second Tommy John surgery. Also, if a player is really good, they’ll find room for him.
Gabe Arias could have taken over at SS when Tatis leaves. And even if Quantrill doesn’t stick in the rotation, neither will Clevinger. And Quantrill is controlled 3 years longer and for less $.
That’s not fair to say because there is no way the Padres could have predicted that Clevinger would have Tommy John surgery right now. Sure he has had a relatively injury-plagued career, but there is no way they could have known that he would miss the entirety of 2021 with Tommy John surgery.
@dan55 still means they got burned in the trade
Dan, no it’s not. I agree, you didn’t give up much of the top of the farm. And Preller can be praised for that
However, he traded so many valuable pieces from the minors+majors, they now have fewer prospects to make deals this year. And they aren’t a perfect product
That was the general complaint with Preller’s deadline. He gutted the middle so much, this offseason, he either has to trade from the top of the farm, or the Padres aren’t improving. Preller did this at least in part bc it was his contract year. See where I’m going with this?
He overpaid to “get deals done” that didn’t push the Padres forward, but now hamstring them in today’s negotiations
Preller traded away some really great prospects and still has a top 5 farm system. Angels fans look down the 5 and we are jealous about what he put together.
Love how Padre fan justifies bad trades at deadline by Preller “we didn’t give up anyone good”
Bingo
Because the Padres haven’t gotten burned trading with the Indians and Rays enough already
I mean they got Cronenworth from TB so idk if you’re being sarcastic or not
Yeah, for Xavier Edwards. Anything else?
Tommy Pham was in the same trade as Cronenworth. Plus, we dumped Renfroe on the Rays. Margot and Pagan both have a couple years left on their contracts, so that trade could still turn out well for either side. The Myers trade is more complicated because it was a 3 team deal, and the Nationals clearly won the trade by getting Trea Turner. But I would say that the Padres got more out the trade than the Rays, as Will Myers has played relatively well. The problem with Myers is his contract extension, not the trade.
Tommy Pham is useless. Renfroe is still in his arb years so “dumping him” wasn’t a plus. It was a wash best case scenario. Pagan is also useless. Wil Myers is an overpaid clubhouse cancer. And yes, the Rays should have just kept Turner rather than letting the Nats get involved.
Useless? You do realize gave up a slap-hitter for Cronenworth, right? And to say that Pagan is useless, he has had some pretty good years in his career, and was very good this year after he recovered from his bicep injury. Plus, I like him a lot more than Margot. Turner got traded to the Nationals, so it’s not fair to include him when you say that the Rays always beat the Padres in trades.
@dan55 a slap-hitter who just turned 21 and has a lifetime .395 OBP in his career. Pagan had a 4.50 ERA in 2020. That means he gives up an earned run every other inning he pitches.
@ RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks First off Pagan was traded for Margot, and I would rather have Pagan than Margot. His ERA is inflated from an injury he suffered at the beginning of the season. His ERA was a 5.40 through August 30, and then he went on the injured list for ten days. He only gave up 2 runs in 12 innings since returning from the injured list. Also, I would rather have Cronenworth at second than Edwards, regardless of the fact that Edwards is 21.
@dan55 you can’t act like those outings before August 30 didn’t happen. They did. And Pagan has been inconsistent his whole career.
Cronenworth is better than Edwards now. We will see how long that lasts.
@RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks I’m not pretending those outings didn’t occur. I am simply giving an explanation for why Pagan struggled this year. Pagan is under contract for three more years, and when you consider his level of production in the past, I do believe that he is a very valuable player for the Padres. Also, we got him for Manuel Margot, who has been very inconsistent and is not an everyday starter.
Cronenworth is better than Edwards right now, and when you consider his offensive capabilities along with his really good defense, I think he will continue to be a better player than Edwards. Edwards reminds me a lot of Nick Madrigal on the White Sox, and while Madrigal is talented, I personally prefer Cronenworth.
@dan55 sorry. Just not impressed by Pagan.
I am admittedly bullish on Edwards. Dude does not make outs, his speed allows him to stretch his singles into doubles and his defense is A-grade. We’ll just see what happens. He’s not guaranteed to keep this up, but neither is Cronenworth guaranteed to sustain what he did in 2020. Especially when he kind of came out of nowhere.
August 3.18 ERA. September 2.57 ERA. Career 3.39 ERA. Very good reliever.
.248/.301/.394/.695 and 87 OPS+ with the Padres. Not so good OF.
That was a good trade for the Padres.
Renfroe just got DFA and Edwards was not on the Rays 60 man extended roster.
mlbtraderumors.com/2020/06/rays-announce-initial-6…
Good trade for the Padres.
Cronenworth hit .183 in September let’s calm down with him being anything right now based on his 1st 30 games
@Koamalu Edwards is 21. Calm down.
LOL Renfroe just got DFA’d. Padres got a pretty serviceable player in Cronenworth.
And gave one up in Edwards
I wouldn’t do it for Patino, Abrams and Weathers.
For one thing, Abrams has way too much upside. Eventually I think the Padres are going to choose between him and Cronenworth, and my guess is that they sell high on Cron, assuming his production and defense don’t just crater in the next year or two. Weathers and Patino are both going to be pretty good barring injury.
Interesting take DrDan75, but I personally think the Padres will move Abrams to center field in the future. The Padres don’t have very many high-upside outfield prospects, so I think moving Abrams out there and keeping Cronenworth at second would be more beneficial to the Padres. But if they put Abrams at second and trade Cronenworth, they could get some really good players in return.
Abrams is the shortstop long-term
@RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks That doesn’t make any sense because we already have Tatis at short and Machado at third. Abrams’ place is at either second or the outfield.
“That doesn’t make any sense because we already have Tatis at short…”
Only for four more years.
But it is reported that a Tatis move to the OF is an option if they made a move for Lindor. Wonder if this is part of the plan to save some of the wear and tear on Tatis given his all out play?
I get with Abrams is not Lindor but a move is something you would have to consider.
One of those guys, maybe. But not likely. All 3. Not a chance. The past 2 seasons Snell has a 3.96 ERA and 2.5 WAR total with just 34 starts and an average of 4.60 IP per start. In 2016-2017 Snell had a 3.83 ERA and 1.8 WAR total in 43 starts and averaged 5.0 IP per start.
Don’t let an outlier season in 2018 and one game in the postseason this season make you think he is worth substantially more than a single top 100 prospect. The Rays hope some team overpays and takes him off their hands, but Snell is not worth 3 top prospects.
Maybe the Padres offer something like Weathers, Mejia. and PTBNL. Even then I don’t think he is a fit for the Padres. Gray is a much better fit. Musgrave is a better fit, too.
More like “Blake Snell open to trades”.
Make the call Perry!
yeah. like right now
I guess it doesn’t hurt to see what the market is for him , Teams will lowball for a year probably and this kind of business hurts team loyalty and shouldn’t be condoned.
Why would you need to extend him when he’s under contract for 3 more years?
Phillies should be all over him. They have the assets and need to make it happen.
My god can somebody take over this team who actually wants to run it like a team that wants to win? If not, they may as well just trade Franco and Arozarena now because you know they aren’t surviving their arbitration years in Tampa. Imagine being the best team in your league and deciding “yeah, nows the time to trade our best pitcher”. That’s just embarrassing.
I had the same mindset as you before the Kluber and Clevinger trade. Look no further than the Tigers, they tried out bidding the MLB top tiers and trading away their farm & have been in the dumps as a result. If the price is right and it ultimately benefits TB team, I’m all for these kind of trades. You may think the Rays are cheap, but they have proven that scouting, player development, and trades determine team success.
@BobSacamano the Indians didn’t know Kluber and Clevinger were going to get hurt and if they did then Daniels and Preller might have a legitimate case to have the trades nixed.
If the price is right, why is TB wrong for making a trade that benefits their team? My point is they made the trade to benefit their team; regardless, if they were anticipating injury
@BobSacamano as MasterCal said, there is no way they trade Snell and benefit their team. At least not immediately. And coming off an AL pennant and looking to repeat they should be looking to benefit the team immediately.
That’s a baseless argument, because it’s complete speculation.
@BobSacamano it’s a baseless argument that no one is trading a player(s) more productive than Snell and with more club control for Snell? Ok.
meh. snell has been pretty mediocre the past few years after his cy. he’s actually more frustrating because you can see the talent is there. he didn’t have 1 game of 6 ip this year. he did show up for the playoffs so that’s in everybody’s mind
but they have honeywell jr, mckay, baz on the precipice (along with a few others), and they lost a majority of their bullpen throughout the year. alvarado was gone, drake, etc., etc. and they still made it work.
i think they have enough depth to pull it off. and snell’s price is higher than it would have been with his playoff performance. if they’re tired of his inconsistency it could be a good time to pounce.
i would wager they’d get a good amount back
If he’s been so mediocre and inconsistent why would anyone trade a king’s ransom for him?
So if they decided to trade Snell for better positional talent. Or, player(s) that better round out their team, than what? Look at Trout, you’re not winning without talent around you. Blake Snell and TB proved one thing to us on 10/27. They need more. If you think TB is going to win the WS with the same team next year.. good luck . You’re foolish if you think Blake Snell is the end all save all
@BobSacamano Blake Snell does have talent around him. That’s why the Rays made the WS. They need to strike while the iron is hot. And there are no players that better round out their team. As MasterCal pointed out, their rotation is relatively thin behind Snell and Glasnow.
Blake Snell might not be the “end-all-save-all,” but no one is trading one of those for him.
What would you give, and what would you expect in return for a Snell trade. The trade possibilities are literally endless! Do you honestly believe there isn’t one trade idea out there that both teams could ultimately benefit from?!?! There has been 5 World Series since Snell entered MLB and he hasn’t won 1 yet. Statistically, theoretically, and hypothetically it would be foolish to shut down all trades (including Trout!!!); especially when you or I don’t know the return. What a ridiculous argument… it’s a team sport!
@BobSacamano I certainly wouldn’t give up anything that would help the Rays more than Snell would unless the player I was giving up was a one-year rental which would defeat the whole purpose for the Rays of trading Snell.
One side or the other will get more production in 2021 out of the players they receive in the trade. No team is going to trade players more productive than Snell in 2021 unless those players are closer to FA. And trading for players close to FA is the exact opposite of the Rays’ organizational philosophy.
Sorry pal but there’s no way the Rays trade Snell and make themselves better for 2021. People said the same thing about the Red Sox trading Betts last year and it wasn’t any more true then.
Red Sox trade 1 year (55 games) and $20m of Betts and $64m David Price, for 4 years of team control from Verdugo, 55 fv Jeter Downs, and 40fv Connor Wong. They did just fine. They tried signing Mookie to a $300m deal and he turned it down. That’s a good return for a player that you were going to lose in free agency! A good trade for LAD as well.
@BobSacamano they did just fine long-term but they would have won more games in 2020 if they hadn’t traded Betts. No, it wouldn’t have been enough to get them into the playoffs but coming off a WS appearance, the Rays aren’t in nearly the same position that the Red Sox were in last offseason.
And it’s not true that they weren’t planning on re-signing Betts. There was plenty of talk about them making him a Godfather offer to come back this offseason.
Lol, they would of won more games, had a lower draft pick, lost him in FA, and literally be in the same position they were in 2019.. no playoffs no World Series. TB is listening to trades.. relax.. there are plenty of better current and future players than Snell. Is Snell’s trade value currently at the highest? Yes. Does TB need help elsewhere around the diamond? You bet. Does TB feel confident in their farm? Absolutely. Could TB get a ridiculous package for Snell? Absolutely. Will not having Snell on TB hurt their current situation? Depends. There will be over 30 other SPs making more $ than Blake Snell next year. And there will consistently be more and more following. Drew Smyly is making $100,000 less than Snell in 2021! You have absolutely no idea the trade package Snell could fetch. Just STOP. To say there is no trade worth listening to is absolutely ignorant
“Lol, they would of won more games, had a lower draft pick, lost him in FA, and literally be in the same position they were in 2019.. no playoffs no World Series.”
The point is that several people said the Red Sox could trade Betts and make the team better in 2020. It didn’t happen. Sure it was the more prudent long-term move, but it affirmatively made them worse for 2020.
“… there are plenty of better current and future players than Snell.”
But none with more control who will be traded for Snell.
“Is Snell’s trade value currently at the highest? Yes.”
So is Tatis’. By your logic San Diego should trade him.
“Does TB need help elsewhere around the diamond? You bet.”
The rotation is one of those places. Trading Snell would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
“Does TB feel confident in their farm? Absolutely.”
So now prospects are guaranteed to pan out and proven major leaguers aren’t?
“Could TB get a ridiculous package for Snell? Absolutely.”
So could the Padres get a ridiculous package for Tatis.
“Will not having Snell on TB hurt their current situation?”
Yes! Yes! Yes!
“There will be over 30 other SPs making more $ than Blake Snell next year. And there will consistently be more and more following.”
Don’t see how this is relevant.
“To say there is no trade worth listening to is absolutely ignorant”
No trade that any GM that wants to keep their job would offer.
1. Did it make BOS worse in 2020, sure (if you discredit salary). Did it make BOS better for 2021, yes. 2. TB doesn’t have half the team salary as SDP. Completely different ran organizations. Stop pretending their a large market, they’ll never sell the farm, or buy the big FA. 3 Honeywell, McClanahan, McKay. TB is great at developing and drafting, to discredit their scouting/f.o is embarrassing. 4 is prospects guaranteed? No. Is 2021 guaranteed? No. Could Blake’s 2019 or 2017 #’s re-emerge in 2021? Yes. 5 The relevancy of his contract length and $ directly reflects higher trade value. Billy Eppler was just fired.. Hindsight is 20-20, but I bet at one time he pondered the trade capital for Trout. You won’t ever be a successful GM, if you refuse to seek every opportunity to better your team. What a meaningless argument.
1. That’s the point! People on this site were saying it would make the Red Sox better IN 2020! And arguing with me when I disagreed! How’d that work out for them? And as far as discrediting salary, you aren’t going to get Betts’ production in free agency for less than what he made in 2020.
2. I never said they would sell the farm or buy a big FA. But it definitely makes sense to keep their best starting pitcher when their window is wide open and they don’t have a ready-made replacement already in-house.
3. How am I discrediting anything? No team hits on all their prospects. And even if they hit on all 3 of those guys the odds of even one being as good as Blake Snell are slim.
4. No 2021 is not guaranteed but the Rays already made it to the WS in 2020 and are returning largely the same team. They should be adding, not subtracting.
5. No one is going to offer anything for Blake Snell that will help the Rays more NOW than Blake Snell. Unless that thing is a rental which would defeat the purpose of trading Snell. You are asking other teams to make their roster worse in both the short and long term. Why would they do that?
I actually didn’t suggest that at all. You’re putting words in my mouth to try and validate your ridiculous claim. I simply said TB would be smart to listen to any trades that might improve the team. Simple as that! I’m not talking or speculating the return.. Or saying they should even do it! I’m just saying they would be smart to listen. Why is it so hard for you to fathom, that two teams can improve by one single trade from each other?
It worked out well when they traded Chris Archer. And meadows + glasnow were mlb ready. They’re just listening on offers. A very simple proposition. But, just the thought of the idea drives you bonkers! Huh? Lol
The same reason they gave a kings ransom for Chris archer lol, people in Tampa get frustrated watching snell and everyone else this he’s amazing…. I’d take a Kings haul for snell and be fine with it
@BobSacamano well sure, every team would be smart to listen to any trade offers for any player. Even Trout. But TB is not improving the team by trading Snell. At least not in the short term. That is just blind homerism if you think that.
Every trade has a winner and a loser. At least in the short term. For the trade to make the Rays better, it has to make the other team worse. Vice versa too. And you figure that the Rays would be adding years of control in the trade. Which means the other team would be making themselves worse immediately AND for the future. Now is that a very smart thing to do?
You have absolutely no idea. You’re speculating that TB won’t get MLB ready talent for Snell (like they just previously did with archer), that ultimately benefits the current team. We don’t know the return. Stop pretending like you know the return or stating the surmise!! What you’re saying is hypothetical, that’s it. Zero evidence. They’re answering the phone.. YES that is the smart thing to do. I’m not saying they should “whatever the circumstance” trade Snell
@BobSacamano so basically you are holding out for another Archer trade. Why would another team do that? No offense but everyone saw how the last Archer trade worked out.
Some teams trade for low priced prospects for the future,some teams for high priced proven veterans for the present.The trade can work out for both teams.
TB will not get a lopsided deal again like with the Archer trade,but they know more about Snell than we do.They will trade him if it makes the team better,and especially if they save the money.
“Some teams trade for low priced prospects for the future,some teams for high priced proven veterans for the present.”
And the Rays should be focusing on the present coming off a WS appearance.
“The trade can work out for both teams.”
Not in the present it can’t. One group of players has to produce more at the major league level than the other.
“They will trade him if it makes the team better.”
The only way to make their team better is by making the other team worse. Why would the other team make themselves worse and also cost themselves money and club control? Does that really make sense for them?
Your first point almost always makes sense but we do not know the TB projection of Snell nor do we know the financial status of the team,especially due to Covid.
There is a third situation that it can work out for both teams in the present if they are both trading established players in areas of position strength to fill areas of weakness.
Your third statement makes no sense.
@Mendoza Line 215 the rotation is not an area of strength for Tampa. And my third statement makes complete sense. One team’s return is going to produce more major league WAR in 2021 than the other. That is the team that won the trade in the short term.
It does make sense if you are just looking at the next year.
See my number two statement though that it can be a win win for both teams the next year.
And see the first sentence of my last comment. The rotation is not an area of strength for Tampa. Their only good proven starters at this point are Snell and Glasnow. That’s all.
Why would a team take a calculated risk? To improve their team in the immediate timeframe or present.. Why did the tigers trade JV, why did Houston trade 3 highly rated farm hands? Why did CLE trade Mejia, why did SDP trade Cimber and Hand? By recognizing potential opportunities and hazards, YES teams are and will continue making trades similar to the Archer trade in 2018. And the more recent Clevinger trade.. You’re not necessarily wrong, you just can’t seem to comprehend ideas other than yours. No sense in arguing with a person who cannot understand other’s objectives! The evidence of these trades are right in front of you.
Bob- You have just stated in clear terms what should be obvious.Thank you.
Tigers were rebuilding when they traded JV. Astros were squarely in win-now mode when they traded for him. Indians were in win-now mode when they traded a prospect for Hand and Cimber. The Padres were rebuilding when that trade happened. All 4 of those trades are points against your argument. They were examples of win-now teams making win-now trades and vice versa.
On Archer, the Pirates overpaid for a pitcher who has always been overrated. And on Clevinger, the trade looks good for Cleveland because he got hurt but they didn’t know he would get hurt when they made the trade and it looked pretty questionable at the time.
Remove pitc win
“ The trade can work out for both teams.”
Not in the present it can’t. One group of players has to produce more at the major league level than the other.
“They will trade him if it makes the team better.”
The only way to make their team better is by making the other team worse. Why would the other team make themselves worse and also cost themselves money and club control? Does that really make sense for them?”
You keep repeating this idiotic sentiment and it’s just wrong. I can name a trade less than ONE YEAR AGO that gave one team a top 3 CY young winner and the other team a dominant reliever to win a title…. oh yea, Kenta for Graderol… last year
So you’re clearly wrong. And guess what? The best teams do exactly what the Kenta trade did and what the Snell trade will do. They trade from depth when their chips are most valuable, to fill holes they couldn’t fill otherwise
Have you never seen a fair trade before? It doesn’t have to be who screwed who
@Laughing@You…
1. The Twins destroyed the Dodgers in the Maeda-Graterol trade as far as 2020 goes. Sure, the Dodgers won the WS anyway, but let’s not pretend that that was because of that trade.
2. Rays have no rotation depth
3. Trade when their chips are most valuable? Ok. Time for the Padres to trade Tatis. And the Nats Juan Soto.
4. I’ve seen plenty of fair trades. But they usually involve one team trying to win now and the other trying to win later.
Key word in 4. “usually” … If a team can benefit from an Ace (we’ll call him Snell), and this team has dispensable players (that TB can benefit from).. why not trade? Why is this concept inconceivable to you?
They wouldn’t benefit from those players more than Snell. Who are the Rays’ five proven starters that are better than Snell?
Did anyone say Rays had five proven starters better than Snell? Or, are you still uttering bogus material?
Remove pitcher-God bless you.I have never seen one poster take on four others at once.
You have boundless energy,and tenacity like a bulldog.
The problem is that your arguement is a one trick pony and you do not see the logic behind the other arguments.
Sometimes it is good to slightly move the prism to see different colors.
“ 3. Trade when their chips are most valuable? Ok. Time for the Padres to trade Tatis. And the Nats Juan Soto.”
You intentionally choose different scenarios, like two guys making the minimum vs a starter who makes 25% of a teams payroll
THEN you complain when I pull Boyd as a comparison in another comment? You’re a joke
And “as far as 2020 goes” … that’s a stupid, stupid way to evaluate trades. Especially when there’s another prospect, a draft pick AND 5 MORE YEARS OF GRATEROL, two for the min, and the twins have Maeda beyond this year. This trade isn’t done. But it helped two teams make the playoffs. That’s a win win
I would say the twins and Dodgers are very happy with that trade because there’s short term and long term value.
You look at things through the smallest prism then scream about stupid logic
Uhh, no. 0%. Either way, happy holidays friend.
@Laughing@You Soto isn’t making league minimum anymore. He’s arb eligible now. And Tatis in one more year. Better trade them before they get expensive!
And as far as Snell making 25% of the Rays’ payroll, they aren’t getting that kind of production elsewhere for less $. And if they could, then no one would trade for Snell they’d just go after the mystery guy who was as good as Snell for less $.
Of course I am going to take issue with you comparing Snell to Boyd. The situations their teams are in could not be any different.
“This trade isn’t done. But it helped two teams make the playoffs. That’s a win win”
Helped the Twins make the playoffs. Didn’t do enough to stop the Dodgers from making the playoffs. Look at Maeda and Graterol’s respective WARs in 2020. There is no competition.
Remove- brilliant retort
Hoped you would like it
Yeah but if they trade Snell their rotation is basically nothing behind Glasnow (unless they re-sign Morton and get an MLB ready starter in return)
That’s very disputable, considering we don’t know the return.
Yeah, they’re like the Indians, except they trade key players at near-maximum value ……
Any GM would be a foolish to not listen on all trades, in a TEAM sport. They are “open to trade talks”. Do not forget how uncertain 2021 baseball is
Damn right
Actually this is smart. Snell has never eclipsed 200 innings in a season and he’s had an FIP over 4 for two seasons. He’s also very erratic. If Ray’s can get a lot of talent back for him, it’s a smart move.
Insert eyeroll. This is how they win, you should know this by now. I predicted this when Cash pulled him too soon–he was ticked, sure he said all the right things after the game, but like others who criticize the TB way–e.g. Pham–they will find a way to get rid of him. Trade him for guys a couple years away, build for the future, and keep winning. A deep prospect pool for the Rays–and many came via trade. I love the Rays, and I love Snell, but if they find a good take for him? Do it.
Exactly!
Well then they may as well sell Arozarena right now as well. His value will never be higher, so they can keep on one upping their own galaxy brain. Just a great way to win a WS.
I guess I lied, it looks like they may have missed their opportunity to sell high on Arozarena.
Hahaha, JDGoat!
I don’t think Snell was the biggest factor in that game. He was dealing but Rays also had a lack of offense all series long.
They just got a team with a $60 million payroll to the WS and averaged 93 wins in 2018 and 2019. They DO win. What exactly do they need to do for you to think they “want to win”.
I’ll go with don’t trade your best players when you came a couple games away from winning a WS. Seems pretty obvious.
Reality can be obvious, but the obvious is not always the reality.
Snell is not their best player. He was not even their best pitcher. He had one great season in 2018 and 1 great game in the playoffs this season, but he has been decidedly mediocre in 4 of his 5 seasons with the Rays. In 2019-2020s Snell has had a 3.96 ERA, 2.5 WAR total in just 34 starts and an average of 4.60 IP per start. In 2016-2017 Snell had a 3.83 ERA and 1.8 WAR total in 43 starts and averaged 5.0 IP per start. He is not what I would call an Ace. A middle of the rotation starter that can be counted on for 5 solid innings.
What he is, is a player the Rays think other teams want and they are hoping for some team to offer more for him than they value him.
They are a great team for developing players, they just seem to do it for other teams.
Not every team in the MLB has $200m to spend on, and retain 40 human beings. Is that Erik Neander’s fault?
Mets will be ALL OVER THIS
I don’t really want to give up Alvarez Mauricio or Allen and for snell you almost have to give up 1-2 of those + more. I don’t like the that for someone that gives you 5 innings
Why give up prospects when you can sign FA’s for just money? Makes zero sense. Rays are trying to take advantage of Snell’s bargain contract after low revenues around the league.
Ya think? Why the hell would they do that.
I’m gonna say it… this organization doesn’t make any sense. They’re smart… but they don’t make any sense.
Better get use to it! This team is molding the minds of 85% of the league’s offices.
Twins!!!
They already have a really good rotation. In fact I’d argue it’s better than TB’s is rn.
Will likely get flamed for this by both Rays and Giants fans but the thought crossed my mind:
Rays are looking for a young, MLB ready catcher
Giants are looking for a young ace to lead the staff of the future
Joey Bart is a product of the Bobby Evans era, and Zaidi seemingly wants to move him to a position outside of catcher as the Giants drafted Patrick Bailey to play C
Bart in a deal for Snell could make some sense…
If the Giants would take Keirmyer, Bart alone (with the usual “fillers”) would likely get it done. And SF can use KK….
I suggested something like this a month ago, but got hooted on…..sorry, still makes lots of sense.
Hard to make any bold suggestion without getting flamed. Giants and Rays just love to trade with each other, and Zaidi seemingly doesn’t have confidence in Bart being their future catcher and has said he wants to be aggressive this offseason.
It would take Bart and two other prospects at minimum, and taking Kevin K. Ramos, Bart, and another prospect between 9-12 in the Giants farm. Maybe Seth C or another pitching prospect. That’s just a starting point too.
I dont think you are too far off in a start to a trade. Rays would love to have a young controllable catcher for the foreseeable future.
I thought Giants, Angels, Brewers, Phillies and Mets right off the bat. I would love to see him end up in Milwaukee although I don’t think the Crew have the right pieces
@sign, my very first thought upon seeing the headline about Snell was “damn, the Giants could sure need a pitcher like Blake Snell.” But, as a rebuilding team, we need our prospects……way too much. Didn’t think about Bart tho. Interesting idea. I am keen on Bart and defended his mediocre debut this year.
The kid could be very good in 1-2 years. But, I don’t think he’s a future HOFer, that’s for sure. With Posey back next season and Bailey in the pipeline, I’d be happy to swap Bart for for Snell….in a heartbeat. Com’on Farhan!
Yeah as a Giants fan I could be open to it. Bart and lower level prospects say Melvin Adon, Logan Wyatt for Snell, KK and a mid tier Rays prospect say Joe Ryan? Giants taking on all salary
Everyone’s for sale at the right price.
Especially on the Rays. They have a long history of trading arbitration eligible players for prospects because they’re too expensive.
If they can get enough pre-arb talent back they’ll trade anyone.
Yep. It’s their history. But he is not in arbitration, he signed an extension; salary going up, time to dump. And he will never have a higher trade value after his ws work.
Imagine the Mets sign Trevor Bauer and trade for Blake snell
Will. Not. Happen.
Considering the owner has more money than a few teams combined, I wouldn’t completely discard the notion…
The owner having more money than a few teams combined has nothing to do with Blake Snell. Bauer, yes, and they could acquire him, possibly. But trade assets are only so many, and when dealing with someone like Snell, you get one big trade and all your major assets are gone.
He didn’t achieve the status of richest MLB owner at 14 billion by making financial decisions that appeal to his heart. I think one big mistake Mets fans are making is that they’re comparing him to GEORGE Steinbrenner, when in fact he will end up being more like Hal.
Should absolutely happen
Why not?
AJ Preller on line 1 offering half the farm for him.
Do the Rays need a go fund me site to help make Payroll?
I feel bad for them, their ️ stadium sucks and their fanbase is just okay
Still trading their best pitcher is just plain silliness
Lol not their best pitcher. Watch some baseball before making such a claim.
I love the Rays, and don’t need pity–we are consistently good, and the future is bright.
Orioles fans would love to be in this situation.
Solution is to move the team
Does Kiriloff as a centerpiece sound fair?
It’s not fair for minnesota. I think Minny does not want to scrap their plans with Alex Kirilloff to pay big money for snell. It’s not a knock on Snell but it’s more of what they have in Kirilloff. Cost-controlled huge bat seems more valuable to me. I think AK is gonna be a bigtime player for the Twins. They may non-tender a guy like Eddie Rosario to get Kirilloff in that lineup, that says all you need to know right there!
Trade him to the Pirates for their top 5 prospects
not enough
Make the call AA.
Braves won’t do it. It will take a big haul of top prospects to get 3 cheap years of Snell. We can dream though!
Think they would deal Riley plus other prosects? Rays are missing a big bat.
if it’s Riley + Waters you can make it happen. Otherwise it’s not gonna go.
Riley, waters, muller at minimum. the rays aren’t shopping him so they will want a haul. I think the braves should go for it since hes cheap and under control for 3 more years. Sign ozuna back and were in good shape to get a WS.
Gonna take more than those 3 for sure. But man, Snell, Soroka (healthy), Fried, Ian Andersen is a hell of a rotation.
That rotation is just filthy. I think we should go for it, do you? Maybe add William Contreras or Shea Langeliers and some lower level guys the rays see potential for. I’m wondering what the rays are looking for in a deal.
They should definitely kick the tires. If Water, Langeliers, Riley, and Muller could get it done, That would be great. Braves would need to sign Ozuna as well.
Depending who goes with him yes
I don’t know… I feel like if the Rays want your players it’s probably a bad idea to trade them. They’re so good at identifying and unearthing talent. Pittsburgh got fleeced in the Archer deal.
@ Appalachian_Outlaw To be fair the Pirates are not known for having a good front office. The Pirates have been burned by multiple teams in trades.
Dan55-Other than the Tampa trade,what are the other trades that the Pirates got burned?I am sure that you will say the Cole trade but they got the most that they could on that one at the time.What other ones?
Mark Melancon?
The reason why I ask these questions is because many of these posters are absolutely clueless.
Melancon was picked up for Joel Hanrahan who was a good relief pitcher whose arm immediately went south.He pitched 4 1/2 years for the Pirates and for 3 of them was one of the top three closers in baseball.
Melancon was traded in his contract year at the trade deadline for someone who turned out to be one of the top three closers in baseball for three years.Melancon consequently got a $64 M contract for four years and earned about one year of it.
@Dan The Pirates ownership is ridiculously cheap, and that has handicapped their FO; but I’ve never viewed those FO as ‘bad’ at what they do, keeping that in mind. They totally got fleeced in the Archer deal but that’s the only deal that jumps out at me as especially poor.
Mmhm then what happened to that guy who was one of the top 3 closers in baseball for 3 years?
Remove-Mmmm,sorry,you have proven my statement again.
How in the world could anyone have predicted that three years in advance?
Well that’s a silly question. No one KNOWS how a trade is going to work out when they make it. It’s the same as my Padres trading for Mike Clevinger and him missing more than half of his remaining club control with Tommy John surgery. It’s not exactly fair to blame the Padres FO for that happening, but because it did, they got burned in the trade. Ditto the Pirates and Vazquez.
The Pirates got three years of a very fine relief pitcher for a pitcher that they were going to lose for nothing.
I think that the vast majority would say that that was a fine return even though he did not turn out to be Mariano Rivera.
You conveniently leave out the other thing that “very fine relief pitcher” did.
The Pirates weren’t going to lose Melancon for nothing. He would have been a shoe-in for a qualifying offer had he not been traded. At that point you still got a first round pick for losing a QO free agent.
And you are stuck on “that other thing” which has no relevance to this discussion.If he would have gotten TJ surgery and not come back you would not be arguing.
The Pirates cannot afford to do what you said to do.NH saw an opportunity to get a fine young pitcher and he took it.He was right.You just will not admit it.
Absolutely the Pirates can afford what I said to do! For one, they weren’t completely sunk for the season when they traded Mark. If they actually wanted to win anything that year I don’t think they could afford to NOT do what I was suggesting. For two, had the PIrates kept and QO’d Melancon they would have gotten the first comp round pick. Plenty of good players were taken after that point in our timeline. They actually would have picked one pick before the Blue Jays where they picked Nate Pearson (#6 on MLBPipeline as I type this comment). The Pirates would have been fine with that draft pick.
I think that you are suggesting that they should have kept MM and got a pick at the end of the year because they were on the edge of contention.Their philosophy has always been to trade before FA to get ML ready players in return.They stated that they wanted to remain competitive enough to possibly make the playoffs and seemingly have a chance to advance in them.This is the way of some of the small market teams.
Well that’s a dumb philosophy. What if they were leading their division and this was prime Andrew McCutchen who was about to be a free agent? Getting good controllable players in return for your rentals is nice, but you take the championship any day of the week and twice on sundays.
And like I said, plenty of good players were available at pick #27 (where the Melancon pick would have landed) back in 2017.
In your opinion it is a dumb philosophy,but I do not think that you understand the plight of the small market teams.
The Pirates added players during the season during each of their three year playoff run when the only team with a better cumulative record happened to be in their own Division.
They had a window of opportunity and it was truly unfortunate that the Cardinals were so very good during the same window.
These teams have a sense of whether they can compete or not.The Rays May think that they had a fortunate year and Snell’s contract May be too much for them.
We do not know what goes through their heads.
I happen to agree with you that while near the top they should go for it.I think that you are overacting at this point unless the Rays do trade Snell and do not get a lot in return which to me signifies a salary dump.
It is a dumb philosophy! You don’t trade core players unless you are either rebuilding or have an equal or better replacement already in house and ready to go.
Maybe to you it is,but the rest of us live in the real world.
The real world where Mark Melancon was essential to any playoff run for Pittsburgh in 2016 and where plenty of good players were available in the comp round in 2017 and where Felipe Vazquez ended up being a horrible human being.
Again,you are judging something after the fact.
The Pirates had traded Neal Walker at that point,and AJ Burnett had retired.Charlie Morton was always hurt in Pittsburgh.Francisco Liriano had gone into a funk.
I just checked a list of #27 draft picks going back to 2012 and saw no one of note.
Just sayin’.
The Pirates weren’t completely out of it otherwise they wouldn’t have traded for Ivan Nova, also a rental at that point just like Melancon. If we also want to not argue with hindsight, you didn’t know that they would fail to beat out SF for the second wild card spot in 2016.
Previous #27 draft picks aren’t relevant here. It’s players taken after the first round in 2017. The Pirates would have had their choice of all those guys. Off the top of my head they could have taken Nate Pearson, Jeter Downs, Luis Campusano or Corbin Martin, among others.
I think that NH saw a chance to get a decent starter for next to nothing,and Searage worked his magic on him.
There may very have been some good players that he Pirates could have drafted,although it seems that they would have been later than the first 27 picks.
I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.
“I think that NH saw a chance to get a decent starter for next to nothing,and Searage worked his magic on him.”
But I thought you said their strategy was to trade players before they hit FA. So why would they trade for a guy who was 2 months out?
“I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.”
There is no agreeing or disagreeing with the cold hard facts.
Sorry,I did not see this gem response before I wrote the last retort.
You pick and choose situations to fit your cockamamie logic.Nova was a pitcher who they got cheap and they took advantage of the opportunity..They saw an upside to him and it worked.
You think that your take on things is cold hard facts.
To me you are simply arguementative and gradually acquiring a reputation for In essence being a troll.
“Nova was a pitcher who they got cheap and they took advantage of the opportunity..”
There was no opportunity! He was a rental! You already said trading rentals away is the Pirates’ philosophy!
Like you i spent far too long using logic in responses to actually talk about baseball only to be attacked for making sense to the masses here.
Please let it go, I’m tired of my phone blowing up all night with this individual literally arguing with every response provided.
I can’t believe that I made the mistake to not uncheck the notify me of all responses for the first time on this thread.
Will not ever make this mistake again!
the Rays arw no different then the Indians. build a good team through the farm, hope you win, and then trade everyone away or let them walk as free agents when they start to get expensive. great strategy to be good; terrible strategy to be truely great.
Darkside
Spot on. Bad stadium and media contract. Fanbase inadequate to support championship level team/ payroll. Only solution is to move the team
Their world series appearance would disagree with you big guy. theres not much ‘greater’ than that
Just when I thought the Rays might be serious about being and staying competitive, too.
white sox on line 1
The White Sox do make a lot of sense 3S. A package with Andrew Vaughn and Zack Collins and a couple of so-so arms probably gets that done. The Rays would get a TON of cheap control and they probably turn Vaughn into a monster.
Those guys make sense for WSox to be willing to part with before it becomes a fleece, but good chance someone will be more desperate to part with better. Now that Ethan Katz is the pitching coach, very optimistic Cease/Dunning/Kopech can realize their potential.
The Dodgers have catching and outfield depth they could trade
LA would have to give up either Gonsolin or Price to fit Snell in, and TB isn’t taking on Price’s contract, even if BOS is paying half of it
For Snell LA would give up Gonsolin and choice of catcher, 3B `and outfielder. Tampa could take there
The dodgers very well may trade Price. But unless they pay him down to like 5M a year, what’s the point from TB perspective? Way more likely, if they trade price, they do it in a Maeda like deal
Now, Ruiz and Gonsolin I would think starts the conversation. Probably need another 5-15 prospect, if nothing but Snell is coming over
Ruiz and Lux
Everything you’ve said below is as ridiculous as this
Dodgers have depth at EVERY position (and $ to take on a bad contract if necessary) if they want to make a realistic trade for just about any player in MLB.
Any team would have to give up a TON to get a guy like Snell for 3 more years and only $39M remaining. That is a great team friendly contract
But if the acquiring team also takes KK with Snell, that serves TB’s financial goals really well and probably subtracts from the number of players/prospects going back to TB. Boston could do this with Chavis, Benintendi, Groome, one of Jeisson Rosario or Pedro Castellanos, and two lower pitching prospects (say, Chris Murphy and Wilkelman Gonzalez or Durbin Feltman). Heck, take Lugo, too.
Do you think TB would trade Snell to an AL East team like Boston? Boston may not be a top of the division contender at this moment but they are never far away, especially if they can add Snell. Imagine Sale, Snell, E-Rod, Eovaldi.
If I was tampa , Im trading him somewhere with good prospects and a big bat goes back in the trade, that might be the one thing that cost them the world series,
Again, the effect of no Revenue Sharing is going to be HUGE, both on the receivers and the donors….the Rays lead the pack, I’m pretty sure, probably in the 60M range. But that also means the Spanks and the Red Sox have lots more to spend.
Even using Forbes’ figures, (which we know only somewhat true), it’s hard seeing the Rays affording a payroll north of 50M (same, BTW, for the Pirates, e.g.). Other teams are in a similar boat, but have owners who don’t quite operate the way Steinburg and Nutting do.
IF they can’t move move KK (without eating most of his deal), Snell’s gone. .
I think they are going to try to offload either Kiermaier or Tsutsugo along with Snell. And it would be smart for an acquiring team to be willing to do that, to slightly lessen the prospect package they’d have to send out. Interested teams with deeper pockets would be more likely/able to do that, teams like the Dodgers and Mets for sure. I’d say the Yankees, but I’m not sure that Tampa is going to be willing to deal with them. They’d have to blow the other teams out of the water with their offer.
All the teams are getting $70 million in additional revenue for 2021 from new national TV deals. None of them are hurting. Not even the Rays.
The Angels have Adell and Marsh. And that’s about it. Fletcher has plenty of value, too and the free agent market is pretty saturated.
Would love to see it but don’t think we get this caliber of a starter in trade.
I would do that trade but I think Marsh will be better then Adell. Make that trade and then sign Bauer & Odorizzi to pair with Bundy & Heaney.
Does TB need an OF?
Depends. KK is getting expensive and Meadows will hit arb fairly soon.
Really, if TB acquired Marsh they could trade Meadows for more prospect capital and just keep the pipeline churning.
I would rather trade for Marquez from the Rockies. With Snell, you better have a deep bullpen. Considering Snell doesn’t even average 6 innings a game pitched. Marquez would have a sub 3 career ERA if he was pitching in Tampa.
Look, I like Marquez too, but I don’t know how you could watch Kevin Cash be willing to pull Snell at 73 pitches in the World Series and not think that their process has something to do with his innings pitched, that’s #1. But #2, have you not seen Snell usually be outstanding in postseason starts? I’m not saying he’s a perfect player, but at that price, his value is extremely high.
The Angels desperately, desperately need high-end talent in their rotation. This Julio Teheran/Matt Harvey/Trevor Cahill “let’s throw some stuff against the wall and hope it pays off” crap isn’t going to work, and pretty soon here Mike Trout is going to get tired of all the losing and ask out. It will come faster than many fans think.
Could it be that the Rays realize he is never gonna be more than a 5 inning pitcher and has a poor attitude?
Smart move to at least get some feelers on him.
It is always smart for teams with a perennial star to ascertain value on him as he approaches FA. Many Mets fans this year believe their team is going to be able to get every single top-tier free agent available…. I don’t think Cohen will do that and even one of these significant trades will eat up most of their trade capital, so more than one may not even be plausible.
I’d have a poor attitude too if my manager was idiotic enough to pull me from a must-win World Series game when I’m absolutely dealing and I’m at 73 pitches lol. He didn’t even go nuts like I would have. I would have been irate.
The single worst managerial decision that I have ever seen, given the occasion, and it’s genuinely not even close. The guy he brought into the game had given up runs in his last 5 or 6 appearances in the postseason, something like that. There was no justification for it. Unconscionable.
The Rays are willing to trade just about anyone for the right price but this isn’t a stupidly run organization. If you are going to trade for Snell it’s going to cost a ton you have a Cy Young caliber pitcher that isn’t a free agent until 2024. They will only move him for an overpay at this point which means the offer most fans are offering aren’t near enough. It’s going to cost a ton.
I wonder what Snell is thinking right now with this news breaking that he could be headed somewhere else for the “right” price…..with 3 years and $39 Million left in the extension he signed………if he thought the Rays were going to be home for a long time, or at least the remainder of his contract, he now realizes he’s just another hired hand offered by the Rays for the right price….expendable for the right price…very interesting!
@rocky7 unless you get a NTC you don’t bake in any sort of expectation that the team won’t trade you when you sign an extension.
And this is why the Rays will never win the WS. They should be adding talent to that team in order to get them over the hump. Instead they are thinking of trading one of their best pitchers.
If they added a big bat like Cruz to be the DH and maybe make a trade for another bat or sign a pitcher, their back in the mix for the world series and al east title
Or…. since Franco seems to be near ready trade Adames for young controllable talent in their respective area of need – OF, C come to mind.
dodgers have multiple catchers to trade for Snell.
Ruiz would be the one that piques their interest for sure. Of course, it would take more than just him, but he would be a good piece for the Rays to get.
I’d wait to see if Franco is as good as advertised first. You can always trade Adames at the deadline. Plenty of top prospects struggle at first, like Vlad, Jr., and Adell.
Yes they will, 50 years from now when someone finally takes the team from sternberg and starts spending.
Trade to the Cardinals for Tyler O’Neil, Matthew Libertore, Matt Carpenter and Carlos Martinez
You’re kidding, right? Plus……… which other five ?
Angels make it happen . need him badly
worth trading Adell or Marsh?
i’d trade adell for snell and cash
Adell, cash and Pujols?
Do you seriously believe Adell and cash for Snell would be enough? I’d be shocked if TB settled on just Adell…likely takes 1-2 MORE controllable players.
You are far over valuing Snell. In 2019-2020 Snell has a 3.96 ERA, a 2.5 WAR total, with just 34 starts and an average of 4.60 IP per start. In 2016-2017 Snell had a 3.83 ERA, a 1.8 WAR total, and just 43 starts and an average of 5.0 IP per start. Don’t let one outlier system fool you into thinking he is somehow worth a kings ransom. He is worth a top 100 prospect, a reclamation project young MLB player, and a PTBNL.
100%. A pitcher Snell’s caliber is hard to find, especially at a price this low. The Angels can sign outfielders.
Snell is a 5 inning pitcher that’s it. He averaged less than 5 innings a start this year.
His manager is all-too-eager to take him out once he gets to the third time through the order, as you laughably saw in Game 6 of the World Series. He is capable of pitching more than that, I assure you.
How can you assure us when he has never done it in the pros? He is what he is. A good starter who can get you 5 solid innings.
He needs to come home to Seattle!!
Every team should be reaching out to see what the starting bid needs to be. If the White Sox sign George Springer to shore up the offense, that puts them as serious contenders in the AL. Would they part with an Andrew Vaughn or Kopech to pair with a Dane Dunning?
Vaughn, perhaps, Kopech, I doubt it. The reason is you need only one 1B and one DH, but 5 SP’s. You can always find a veteran slugger. The Sox also have Eloy, should he not improve defensively, or could go after guys like Cruz or Ozuna. 1B and DH are not premium positions, SP is.
Braves. Wright/Waters/Camargo/Contreras. Maybe Ynoa too.
I would make that trade so fast. no way that gets it done though.
It would definitely have to start with Waters and probably either Contreras/Langeliers, plus pitchers like Wright, Wilson, Ynoa, et al
Wow. I’m not usually a big proponent of emptying the farm to get a guy, but that’s a pretty great combination of arm and contract.
Adell, Yan, [ couple prospect outside 30] for Snell, and a bullpen arm
White Sox need to make this happen. Start with Kopech.
If Tampa is really wanting to shed payroll, maybe the White Sox would offer to take Kiermaier and Snell off their hands?
Interesting, but I doubt they give up Kopech in that case. At that point, they’d be paying about $26M/yr for Snell’s services. I don’t think they give up one of the game’s top pitching prospects, too. In that case, I think they offer Collins / Zavala and one of their other pitching prospects, like Stiever.
In re-reading that, I realize Collins / Zavala and one other prospect isn’t enough, unless it’s a guy who’s already made it, like Cease or Dunning. Even then, it might well take another guy to make it worthwhile. But I still contend that they don’t give up Kopech if they’re taking on Kiermaier.
In sports with salary caps, teams often have to move elite players they’d rather keep because of money concerns.
In baseball, only small market teams have to move elite players they’d rather keep because of money concerns.
Almost always to big market teams. The rich getting richer.
Because MLB has no interest in anything even approaching a level playing field.
Josh-correctamundo.How many teams could have afforded Mookie Betts but the Dodgers?
Small market teams are the Kansas City A’s of the 50’s and 60’s to the Yankees.
Rays will look to trade for top prospects, the Padres, Tigers, Mariners, White Sox, and Braves will be their targets!
“names the braves, angels and even the mariners as interested teams” what a joke. every team out there would want to plug that guy into the staff.
100%
Every team would ideally want to, but not every team is in a position to do so. You have to have the prospect capital or players they’d want, which is probably ideally a C or more pitching. You’d have to be in a position to use him (leaving out rebuilding teams like the Pirates and Royals). And you’d have believe that some of his metrics from 2020 are just blips, like the spike in HR/9 and FIP. He’d upgrade any rotation, sure, but that doesn’t mean all 29 teams are going to make serious bids for him.
I can’t realistically see the rays trading him. I get his contract is expensive under the rays standards but you have a cy young pitcher for a stupid cheap contract for baseball’s standards. Either it’s gonna take an insane haul for someone to realistically get him, or the rays cheapness is at an all time high after the covid revenue hit and Mgmt is forcing them to shed any salary possible.
I don’t see the Braves trading for him. It would prob take Pache and Waters at the bare minimum (if not a lot more) to pull off that deal and honestly we need at least Pache at this point… so I don’t see it happening
Oh, I agree. If they need to shed payroll, then find a taker for Kiermaier. I don’t know how cheap Tampa thinks an ace can be had, but $13mm is a bargain for Snell.
No doubt
Wish we had some prospects, the Phils could certainly use a top arm.
Such a cheap team
I think this has more to do with Snell’s youtube meltdown video where constantly proclaims “I’ve got to get mine” over and over more than the Rays needing to make payroll. Outside of 2018 Snell’s numbers are pretty pedestrian so the Rays may be trying to sell high while they can
True. For a team that has no plans of growing payroll, they might as well sell high.
Dodgers would probably jump in that mix. Lux, Ruiz, Gonsolin/May, et al. whatever it takes.
I would propose the same thing but maybe Tony or May OR Gray. I would ask them to take Jensen
They aren’t taking Jansen man. One of the reasons for moving Snell is to save money. They are going to want prospects or young major leaguers who haven’t even gone through arbitration yet, or early arb at the very least. It’s actually quite possible that they would want a team to also take more salary, like Kiermaier or Tsutsugo, and certain teams with deep pockets might be willing to do that if it meant that the prospect return might be slightly less. The Dodgers or Mets (with their new uber-rich owner) would be obvious candidates to be willing to take on more money.
That would be one scary rotation. They already have a lot of pitching, but Snell would make them even better.
If Snell wants to win a world series he would try to go to LA Dodgers. Dodgers have money and prospects to work out a deal with Tampa.
Snell has no say in the matter.
Teams better be willing to make good offers. Rays will be looking for specific players to add to their roster. Smart on Neander to see what those trade offers will be.
Angels for Adell, Jones, Sandoval
To much to give up for Snell
I don’t agree. While I think Adell has a chance and same with Jones, Sandoval doesn’t do much for me, and it’s an ace on a $39MM deal for the next 3 years. The Angels are rapidly wasting Trout’s prime, and are in serious danger of him asking out with another terrible season. It’s going to take more than Adell for sure, who didn’t look that good in 2020. Sure, that doesn’t mean he can’t end up being very good, but his stock alone isn’t going to cut it. Particularly in a year where the free agent pitching options are so weak after Bauer, Snell is going to command a hefty return, unless teams know that the Rays are worried about his medicals. I have a theory that this is why the return for Clevinger was so low. In any case, yeah, Adell isn’t going to be close to enough.
I think you are right. Other than 2018, Snell has a 3.90 ERA, a 3.91 FIP and averaged just under 5 IP per start while missing 21 starts to injuries. You can’t base a pitcher’s value on an outlier season 3 years ago.
I cannot believe these GMs get fooled into these bonehead trades year after year and are seemingly never the wiser when they unload their top prospects going for glory and they flop in the postseason. Meanwhile, the Rays once again get out from a big contract and replenish their organization with top level talent they develop into every day, effective, winning pros.
Here’s a tip: don’t do it unless Snell can be had for pennies on the dollar which is a near impossibility. Hello!!!
Snell isn’t owed enough money for any team to truly get “burned” by the contract. Atlhough the fact that the Rays are considering trading a player like him coming off an AL pennant does suggest to me that they know something we don’t know.
Snell is a Ace and getting paid 39m for 3 years. That is pennies on the dollar.
Not for the cheap ass Rays
Mookie Betts deal seemed to work out OK…but I agree with your general sentiment.
Sanchez Andujar and Frazier for Snell.. good value or if they want a slugger give up Voit if they can keep Frazier.. sign Dj and let him play 1b and we have 2 aces
There’s no way the Rays trade him within the division.
TB doesn’t need any of those players. They could use a catcher, but not Sanchez. They don’t need an OF or a 1B. And, as Darth Nihilius says, they aren’t trading in the AL East.
Whats with you yankee fans thinking anybody wants Andujar let alone Gary.
While I don’t see TB taking Andujar or Sanchez in a Snell deal, I’m pretty sure there is a small buy low market for Andujar or Sanchez.
There’s a buy low market, especially if a team think they can plug them in at DH. Their bats are good enough to play; it’s the defense that’s the killer for both of them.
Another delusional Yankees fan….
Yeah he’s the only guy in this thread to suggest a bad deal.
Perfect fit for the Twins, they have enough of a farm system to trade him. Rocco is very familiar with him having coached in TB. We desperately need an ace and he’s controllable until 2024. This needs to happen
Snell is absolutely available, especially if the Rays can bundle KK into a deal. 3 Top 100 prospects + MLB-ready controlled arm would likely get it done.
Braves, White Sox, Padres, Mariners?
Could also see the Rays flipping those Top 100 prospects (including some already in their farm) for a catcher + cash and taking the KK money saved to go get Nelson Cruz.
Doubt you get that package, plus get rid of Kiermaier. Teams would be getting a solid glove, but no bat OF, which sounds like the 4th OF on most teams. Effectively, then, they’d be paying $26M/yr for Snell’s services. That’s not unreasonable, but it takes out the contract benefit you’d otherwise be getting, and that loss of value naturally lowers the return package.
“No bat” is an interesting way to describe a league average bat on the best defensive cf in the game
Look at his last 3 years. OPS+ of 80, 79, and 91. He started off above average, but he’s been below average for a while now.
Ive watched every game hes played for the past 3 years. Kiermaier is a decent bat when he is not constantly injured
Dodgers anyone? I mean why not? 39 million for 3 years is really doable and for a couple of prospects I would look into it
Since the Rays love analytical darlings… How about a trade centered around Rhys Hoskins, Odubel’s contract, Mickey Moniak and a few cases of the new Under Armour Harper’s for Snell.
When have the Ray’s ever traded for MLB veterans. Doubt it happens.
Most people are saying its stupid for the Ray’s to trade Snell but they overlook the fact that he’s an erratic pitcher who barely makes it past 5 innings a start. He has never eclipsed 200 innings before and he had an FIP over 4 in two of his five seasons, one being this year. He’s expendable and now is the time to trade him if they want something back. Personally I find Snell highly overrated…
If that’s the case why would anyone be lining up to trade their best prospects for him?
We don’t actually know that teams are doing that
Walker Buehler has never thrown 200 innings, and has only thrown more than 140 innings once in his career. He’s about 19 months younger than Snell is, but still. There aren’t 10 pitchers in baseball I’d pick above Buehler for a postseason winner-take-all game, and maybe not even 5.
Snell is an ace, and his good velocity and 4-pitch mix really play in the postseason. If the Dodgers got their hands on him, it would be like highway robbery, with health permitting. I guess that’s the rub. If the Rays are willing to deal him with 3 years left on his affordable deal, you have to wonder if they aren’t worried that he is at big risk of an injury fairly soon. That’s the only thing that’s giving me pause. I don’t care about the bloated ERA from 2019, nor the FIP from this year. I watch him pitch against the best hitters the sport has to offer, and he can make them look silly. It’s like Trevor Bauer: would I want to pay that guy $150-200MM? Pretty risky, since he’s been a little up-and-down in his career.. But Snell is only making $39MM for the next 3 years, and if he were to have just one ace-like season, that single season would practically pay for the entire 3 years. The contract makes his value sky high imo.
This year Blake Snell averaged 4.55 innings per start in the regular season and 4.8 innings per start in the postseason.
Were the short starts the result of Tampa Bay design or because of Snell’s lack of durability?
In 2020 regular season and postseason, Snell had no quality starts according to the arbitrary definition of that statistic. As a team the Rays recorded seven quality starts in the regular season.
Unfortunately, if you consistently shut down any pitcher before facing a lineup a third time, that’s what you’ll have: a pitcher unable to go much deeper into a game, because of where his team-set limits are.
That said, given Snell’s relative youth, it seems reasonable that he could be stretched out, especially by a team with superior player-development capabilities such as the Dodgers. (And YES, TB has similar capabilities, with one major difference: they can’t afford to keep the studs they develop.)
There might not be a more team-friendly deal in baseball right now than Snell’s remaining three years for just $39M. If you can go get Snell at those numbers and get something vaguely resembling the pitcher he’s been the last three, YOU DO THAT DEAL 10 TIMES OUT OF 10.
Dodgers should totally do it, especially considering they have catchers to spare, young prospects to deal, etc. Their rotation would become baseball’s deepest (if not also best), and they’d have a natural replacement for Kershaw, who could be the 3/4 starter that he actually is now.
Good lord, it would be stealing…..
I believe the Dodgers are best positioned to do a Blake Snell deal and a win win for both teams. Firstly if I were Neander, I’d ask for a replace starter with Urias or May, 2nd and most important is a catcher…Will Smith preferred or Ruiz. and as a bonus for Ray fans (and Dodgers relief) add Dave Price (at about 5 mill per?) to finish out his career as a Ray and replace Morton as Sr. Pitcher- So Blake Snell for Smith, Urias and Price…Who says no?
god the rays are such scum, just fold the team already.
LOL. Best record in the AL, and one stupid decision away from possibly winning a WS.
it’s a shame they have no fans who care.
Joe-Blame that one on the computer.
Spot on. Move the Rays
Rays have designated for assignment Renfroe & O’Grady because their outfield is crowded. Rays need a catcher, Rays could use a power right handed bat 1st base & DH. Have plenty of infielders. Rays are not rebuilding. Snell signed with agent Boras so he is gone after contract is up. This is might be the best spot to get max value
Alonso for Snell
Would you guys take Alonso for Snell?
In thinking of trade packages from the Dodgers, Keibert Ruiz makes a lot of sense. It would have to be more than Ruiz, of course, but it would be logical for him to be involved.
Logical and doable, especially since the Dodgers have young catching to spare.
Alonso for Snell
Pete Alonso the kid born raised in Tampa and grow up Rays fan? Sure might have a few other players from each team but Alonso the centerpiece
I don’t understand people who don’t think 30 starts from Snell isn’t more valuable than a dh only .250 200k hitter.
Would Matz interest them as a hard throwing lefty once a really good prospect?
This is a great way to show your FO backing of a top player. I’m sure that’ll be inviting for future FA to see. Rays have really continued to bewilder me as a franchise.
I wonder if Jeter Downs & Bryan Mata from Boston would be enough to get Snell? I’d hate to see Boston give up on two of their best minor leaguers but if they really hope to contend soon, Snell would make their staff a lot better for sure.
I agree with your assessment but I have to ask: would TB trade Snell to a division competitor?
I adore Snell, but i doubt seriously they have enuff to get this top pitcher. Whomever gets him will be giving TB back a ton for him., even if there were problems, post WS, we’ll never know, but i am guessing there were a few.
Build a package around Ruiz and Lux. Would add Gray if they take Jensen.
So you think the rays, who are trading 13M aav if snell, are taking Jansen’s 20M salary?
There’s no reason to pay more in prospect cost to get rid of a very useable reliever like Kenley
Correct on taking Jansen, that’s obviously not happening. It would be more likely that the Dodgers agreed to take on more money from the Rays, say Tsutsugo’s $7MM salary for ’21.
Someone please spend some money for this WS contender. Yankees are laughing at Ray’s piggy bank savings.
Could be a good fit behind Bauer if Minasian can make it happen. Doesn’t look like a inning eater much though. Has he had injury problems in the past? Was 2018 abnormal for him?
Would rays trade with the American League team? Probably not if they think they might be helping teams they will be computing with.
After the WS, the Dodgers will grab him. He’ll love to finish a two hit game in the WS on the winning team and Dodgers have the prospects to get him.
Maybe Friedman and the Dodgers night swing a deal?
The Mets should trade for Snell , I would give Mauricio,Nimmo,Matz and Ali Sanchez
Sign Springer, McCann,Hand take a flyer on Kluber, Tanaka or Odorizzi for 1 year
DeGrom,Snell,Stroman,(Kluber/Tanaka or Odorizzi) and Peterson
Resign J.Wilson and Ramirez for the BP.
Sign Tyler Flowers for backup C
Rick Hahn and Jed Hoyer should be on speed dial with Erik Neander. The Rays will want to remain competitive in the AL East by trading Blake Snell for pre-arbitration MLB ready talent. This gives the White Sox a decisive edge over the Cubs in any trade talks providing Hahn is willing to deal from his assortment of young power arms and perhaps even 1B Andrew Vaughn.
If Hahn is willing, the White Sox could probably top most any offer out there including those coming from AL East Division rival contenders like the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays. That said, my money would be on Neander hooking up with former Tampa GM Andrew Friedman who now has a World Series ring as the Dodgers PBO and plenty of cheap young assets to entice the Rays.
It doesn’t make much sense – they would be blocking a young starter if they traded for him. Sox rotation is not really a huge issue for them. They are pretty close to complete already, my guess is they would use big money to find a power bat to plug into right field having missed on Mazara. They may also look to get the bat they thought they had when they also whiffed on Edwin Encarnacion. Sox are bat hunting not starter shopping.
I disagree. The lack of a reliable 3rd starter (along with Renteria’s baffling BP management), doomed the Sox against the A’s. I do believe that RF is their biggest hole and so Springer should be their biggest target, but I’d be ok with them dealing Vaughn and Stiever / Collins to get this done. Some people have suggested Kopech, but I doubt that because pitching depth is often the biggest need on a team. With Cease’s struggles, Dunning just learning, Lopez flaming out, and Crochet giving us an injury scare just a few innings in, not to mention Kopech coming back from TJS, it’s really hard to have too much depth on the rotation.
I could totally see the Dodgers in on this. What if Friedman is leaking the Arenado stuff to throw people off the trail of Snell? I could also see the Dodgers being willing to take back Tsutsugo’s $7MM salary to give them even more financial relief.
The Dodger rotation could be Buehler and then 4 lefties: Snell, Kershaw, Urias, and Price. I mean, that’s just crazy. And it’s likely that one of May or Gonsolin would still be around.
I cant blame any team for selling high on an Ace. With how injuries, production decline and sometimes how fragile mentally pitchers can get. If you can get a tremendous return then I think you have to make the deal especially if you’re a low market team.
Wonder how Pittsburgh making a bad trade a couple of years ago will impact the Rays’ demands for Snell. They will ask for your Top 5 prospects and the COVD vaccine in return after getting Meadows and Glasnow for a worse pitcher with less team control.
Snell is getting traded due to fallout from the WS disaster. We don’t know what went down behind closed doors. Which team that scores him is getting an ace and top pitcher in the league. Good luck to whomever gets him, they’re getting the best.
I think the Angels have to be on him. Trade Adell for Snell and pick up Hunter Renfroe
Adell isn’t going to be enough. Just like Lux wouldn’t be enough for the Dodgers. Had they looked like Kyle Lewis or something, sure. They haven’t/didn’t. Gonna need more. I do agree that the Angels should be in on this, though. They are in desperate need of an ace. Either you’re trying with Mike Trout or you aren’t. You could argue that Bauer would make more sense, as he won’t cost you much of the valuable prospect capital that you worked hard to replenish. Having said that, Snell would only cost $39MM over the next 3 years, while it’s likely going to take a $150MM commitment to get Bauer.
Arte knows he doesn’t need good pitching to fill the stadium
I would love to see the Twins land Snell. Minnesota has a lot of blue chippers they could use in a deal. Pretty sure TB would want the likes of Royce Lewis, Rooker, Kirilloff, Duran, etc. They could make it work, question is do the Twins want to part with such high end prospects – most of which are already MLB ready.. It’s a good fit, I think.
It would take one of Lewis and Kiriloff, and one of the others, maybe some more low-level guys. As a White Sox fan, I hope it doesn’t happen. Either way, though, the next few years in that division are going to be fun.
Teams need to proceed with caution when trading with Tampa Bay. They have proven many times to be adept at winning trades. They absolutely destroyed the Pirates in the Archer deal and then obliterated the Cardinals in the Arozarena deal (to be fair we don’t know what Liberatore will be yet). Buyer Beware!
Kelenic and JRod aren’t going anywhere. I wouldn’t trade either for Snell. Save you’re money, develop the farm. There are other pieces that can be traded for lesser prospects.
Marco Gonzales for instance was traded for merely Tyler O’Neill. There are deals out there that make a whole lot more sense than this one.
I can see Seattle reuniting with Taijuan Walker or James Paxton before trading high prospects for Snell.
The other thing with the M’s is they’re not ready to contend yet. Getting Snell would get them closer, but at the risk of shortening their window. For next year, while they may be improved, they won’t be postseason-ready, so they’ll have wasted a year of Snell and lowered their draft pick order. There’s no point.
LA can offer Keibert Ruiz who got called up last year, is MLB ready plus SP Tony Gonselin should be enough for Snell..
I don’t know if that’s enough. Ace starting pitching is at a serious premium, and this dude is only making $39MM for the next 3 seasons. Forget the bloated ERA from 2019. He rebounded this season and he showed what he can do in the postseason against the very best the game has to offer. He’s 27. It’s going to cost a lot to get this guy, regardless of what any poster thinks about the value of Marco Gonzalez vs. him lol.
The Rays would have to listen really hard if the Dodgers offered up Dustin May. Already has shown he can succeed in the big leagues and has 5 years of team control left. Say all you want about the Dodgers being cautious with their starting pitchers, but I can guarantee you that not even Dave Roberts would pull Snell at 73 pitches if he was dominating a lineup in a postseason game. Which Snell has repeatedly shown that he can do.
Forget Arenado. The Dodgers should be after Snell, as cheap as he is through 2023. Perhaps it wouldn’t require May, and perhaps you could offer up some combination of Lux/Gray/Ruiz/Gonsolin, but if I’m the Dodgers, I have definite interest here. Friedman has worked trades with his former team before.
Snell only last what 5 innings per start? Similar to James Paxton. These guys don’t pitch deep into games anymore. Unless you have fail starters that gets through 3-4 innings in the bullpen then I get the idea. But snell isn’t that great when his pitch count hits 80-100 in just 5 innings minimum.
But it is reported that a Tatis move to the OF is an option if they made a move for Lindor. Wonder if this is part of the plan to save some of the wear and tear on Tatis given his all out play?
I get with Abrams is not Lindor but a move is something you would have to consider.
Multiple thoughts here
1) what is the mindset of Snell? Does he want out for the opportunity to maximize his value given the fact that TB will not let him see a 3rd time thru the lineup? I told my wife when he was pulled that may be his last pitch in TB given his reaction. BTW,she doesn’t care about my commentary and told me who, if she was the Bachelorette would pick so I’m talking to you guys and gals
2)why not sell high on him? TB will always need the player capital he or any other big name developed can return. This is especially true given his playoff run and arm issues they will not ever get this return again
3) given their young talent with big arms they see it as a plug and play to get 18 outs and turn it over to the pen so his value is different to them than other clubs
1) I don’t think it matters what his mindset is. He can’t really force a trade, neither can he block one. His opinion in this matter is pretty irrelevant.
2) If they think it’s downhill from here (his spike in FIP and HR/9 are not good signs), then yeah, trade him now. His contract will never be more valuable. That said his ERA+ is in line with his career numbers and his WHIP was a little lower, so there’s evidence to suggest that he’s still going to be quite good next year. If I were TB, I’d probably try to go one more year, and then trade him, but it’s obviously their call and maybe they’re tired of the other issues surrounding him.
3) The Rays develop pitching talent better than anyone but maybe the Indians. If they are going to trade him, they’d be wise to do so for a C and another SP with talent they can develop. Effectively, it’d probably be getting a free C out of the deal, not to mention more control. I’m not sure that his value to them is different because you can still muck up the game plenty during those 18 outs, but they do have great pitching depth.
I get it that he has a contract and they are getting 3 more years at roughly 13/yr from him so he can’t force anything, I understand contract law and no where does it say they are trading him, they don’t have a gun to their head like the situation in Cleveland with Lindor.
His mindset is irrelevant to some degree but when you have a guy making up over 18% of your payroll assuming it jumps to $70M next season isn’t sold on his situation or the decision making of the coaching staff you have a bigger issue in an MLB clubhouse.
Getting the player capital return too soon rather than too late is what it is all about with their situation
The Indians have no gun to their head. They are coming off a season where they were 1 game back of the division title (comes out to about 2.7 games back in a 162 game season). Would keeping Lindor so they can make one last shot at a title really be the worst thing to do?
Correct sir, they don’t technically have a gun to the head but their situation is weighing is the return of a single draft pick as compensation vs. getting multiple potentially MLB ready player(s) with <1 year to pull the trigger and dwindling returns if they should wait until the deadline to make this decision.
Time and potential return are the device and ammo I am eluding to
Single draft pick + greatly increased chances of a title in 2021 vs. prospects that MIGHT help them at some point down the road.
I nor the headline shared do not advocate for the moving Snell, it simply states that they are open to the idea of moving Snell (assuming the return is fair) I am simply stating that exploration of the potential return as present or future chips must be weighed in multiple prospects vs. a year or years with a player like Snell that has a history of injury concerns.
Small market teams must move players for multiple MLB or near MLB ready players to complete and continue the cycle and not wait multiple years for a potential draft pick to become MLB ready yet all teams face a different reality.
Pair this with the claims that it has been expressed that Lindor will be moved before opening day for multiple players (assuming Cleveland’s return) is of a fair value they will need to at least consider the potential and most likely pull the trigger on the proverbial gun I originally referenced.
With this when you look at the expressed financial aspects of the virus that we are all facing today moving a player like Snell and his team friendly contract could potentially provide more prospect capital as return.
Any team would be crazy not to exhaust every avenue to potentially better themselves today and for the future.
LA-I salute you as a fan of the wealthiest of teams to have understanding and empathy for the small market teams.
They must do what you say to remain competitive at least to make the playoffs,or tear the team down and be terrible for at least three years.
Each small market team has to decide how to proceed once their two- three year opportunity window closes.
Unfortunately,this is rocket science to some.
“Small market teams must move players for multiple MLB or near MLB ready players to complete and continue the cycle…”
No they do not. Unless they are going into a rebuild or they have an equal or better replacement already in house and ready to go they can’t afford to trade the player.
“Any team would be crazy not to exhaust every avenue to potentially better themselves today and for the future.”
Oh you mean like keeping Snell? (who isn’t exactly close to free agency himself)
Unbelievable that anyone is defending this exercise the Indians and Rays are performing in trying to see how cheap they can be, how many good players they can trade off, while still remaining relatively competitive. Sometimes it makes sense to “go for it.” And for the Rays, coming off a WS appearance. Now is as good a time as any. Also, the hypothetical return that they could get for Snell right now is not going to make or break anything for them any more than Snell himself.
I love the game first and foremost and have been aa Dodgers fan since 88 when I was 10 yrs old. I live in the Midwest and see and understand first hand what happens when teams try to hang on too long and get that last run like the situation the Royal’s fans face today.
There is no blue print on how to do this perfectly but the idea of having multiple options to hit a double and hope that it makes to to the fence or sneaks out if far more appealing to me when looking at the realities faced rather than putting all into 1 sandwich pick at the end of the first round. I am only speaking for myself here and like everyone else am playing armchair GM
Sir, and I apologize if I am incorrect here but once again looking at and weighing options is critical for all teams. if the return is worth it they would be doing you as a fan a disservice to continued prosperity.
A pitcher that has averaged less than 5 innings every 5th with injury concerns or a shortstop that you can get an albeit lower level production with upside and some OF production with and an arm or 2 MAY have a greater value to a franchise than squeezing out one run in a division that will be very competitive given the improvements that CHI and MN have and potentially will make this offseason.
Not attacking you, just want to see as many teams as productive as possible as long as possible and make good decisions to maximize or extend their ability to entertain their fans
@IA Dodger 78 trading your best starter when your window is wide open would be doing a MUCH bigger disservice to your fans. And “squeezing out one run?” Dude, Snell is controlled through 2023.
The hypothetical return for Blake Snell isn’t going to make or break the future for Tampa. No reason they can’t keep him and still remain productive and entertaining for a long time.
I am not certain that Snell is your best SP next season, I get that he has multiple years of team friendly control and that only drives up his value.
Look at the return you got for Archer only a few short years ago and the position that has TB in today.
Again there is no perfect blue print for this scenario to reload while remaining competitive but you need to at least look and weigh the options
1. I’m not even a Rays fan
2. Every GM in baseball sees how the Archer trade worked out for Pitt. No one wants to look bad and that’s what Neil Huntington does because of that trade. The Rays aren’t getting that kind of an offer for Snell.
NH did not “look bad” on many if any on his recent trades other than this one.
You have no clue.
Most of his recent trades were good ones.
It is always entertaining to me to see fans of other teams think that they are an expert on every team.
Unfortunately,especially in sports,few remember anything but the most recent news.
The Archer trade got NH fired. Every other GM saw it. No GM wants to repeat.
Wrong again.Nutting gave both of these guys a four year extension after the 2017 season,which followed another mediocre 2016 season.Hurdle was never the same,and NH seemed to get complacent also.Hurdle getting fired after an absolute terrible second half in 2019 also got NH fired as Nutting wanted to completely clear house.The Pirates had a decent minor league system,but not one that was good enough for a small market team to contend.The hope for BC is that he will greatly improve the scouting and coaching systems and methods.Nutting,or his father,was smart enough to know that the organization had become stagnant.He was not smart enough to know not to give four year contracts after two mediocre seasons.
Tell me how the trade value for Matthew Boyd has aged
You cant assume health you cant assume that values going to remain the same. When you have a valuable trade asset and you believe that you can replace them internally you trade them. Just like the Dodgers did with Kenta Maeda. It’s what smart teams do. Sorry your team does not do that
@Mendoza Line 215 The Archer trade did get NH fired! But FWIW it looks like the Piratrs are finally sticking to a rebuilding plan rather than employing some ridiculous “both buy and sell” strategy. They will get Kumar Rocker next July and quite possibly the #1 overall pick the following year.
@Laughing@You…
“Tell me how the trade value for Matthew Boyd has aged”
Not comparable. One team was in the middle of a rebuild. The other is coming off a WS appearance.
“You cant assume health you cant assume that values going to remain the same.”
I’m not. But the same logic applies for every player. So by your logic, the Dodgers should trade Walker Buehler. The Indians should trade Shane Bieber. Why don’t I see them doing that? Get rid of them! NOW! Before they get injured!
“When you have a valuable trade asset and you believe that you can replace them internally you trade them.”
Who are the 5 proven starters Tampa has that are as good as Snell? I’ll give you Glasnow. Anyone else?
“Just like the Dodgers did with Kenta Maeda.”
Boy are they lucky that trade didn’t cause a big enough ripple effect to cost them the WS lol. That would be bad…
Just like the Dodgers did with Kenta Maeda.”
Boy are they lucky that trade didn’t cause a big enough ripple effect to cost them the WS lol. That would be bad…”
No idea why you continue to speak about things that you clearly do not grasp the entire context. Maeda would’ve been the sixth starter in LA. meanwhile he already had a complaint against going in the bullpen which is exactly where the Dodgers did need, pen help. So they dealt from a strength, let the kids grow in the rotation and added their future closer for the next5 years in the process
You’re looking at this so simplemindedly. It’s not just one year people are trading for and it’s not just one player people are trading for. The Dodgers got a secondary prospect and they also got a draft picked out of that. The draft pick could carry as much future value as Graterol, it was basically a 2nd rounder. It also opened a hole for Dustin May and Tony Gonsolin to have rotation spots and they were both huge this year and for the future. Trading is not just about instant gratification. It’s about building a consistent winner like the Dodgers do year over year over year. And the rays too. Hmm
You’re also trying to look at the rays how you want them to be built, not how they are built. They just made the World Series using their starters two times through and then the bullpen strategy. Often times using their bullpen arms as that opener. So they plan to fill multiple holes by trading Blake Snell when value is highest and they have a ton of young arms that can make up the slack. Why can’t they simply stretch out some of the relievers they had in the pen this year to cover 3-4 innings? They can do that, they cannot just create a MLB quality catcher. They’ve tried
You’re trying to think of this team so simplemindedly and the rays don’t think that way. To understand their process you have to think like them
When you have $60 million to build a 25 man roster plus depth, this is how you stay competitive.
And why isn’t Boyd relatable? He’s a starter the team held trading because he had multiple years of control left, planning to trade in the future, only to have poor performer or injury ruin his trade value.
But if you insist, the Dbacks with Ray are the same. Held Ray specifically they thought they could compete, he struggled and they got a fraction of what they’d have gotten pre season
Remove pitcher-The Pirates did not tank this year.They were just very very bad.
They have had three #1 picks since the mid 80’s.One was fairly good,one was a bust,and one was very good.This average is probably somewhat close to the average of all of the teams making the first pick in the draft.
Getting Kumar Rocker in itself will not make them a good team.
You are stuck on the Archer trade and cannot see anything else.
Sorry,but this discussion has passed the milestone of boredom and I do not have time for it anymore.
Your pen name says it all.
Getting Rocker in itself may not make them a good team but it is a huge step in the right direction and it is good to see the Pirates not try and half-ass their rebuild like the Rays appear to be with their window of contention.
You may be right on this one but at least the Rays got to the WS which is something that just the Mariners have failed to do since the Pirates were last in one.
Madea would have been the 7th starter in LA behind Chicken Strip and would have been 8th if Price didn’t opt out
He requested to be traded, his incentive based contract was never going to be maxed out or even close to in LA
Congrats to him performing when given the chance but please remember he asked to be traded
As IA and myself said below, Maeda asked to be dealt or was filing a grievance
You’re comparing 33+ year old Maeda to 21 year old Graterol, yet trying to not include long term value in the conversation.
“ Draft picks and prospects don’t win championships.”
Wow this is just dumb. Two of the best farms in the last 5 years were facing each other in the World Series. LAD’s roster was THE MOST homegrown roster of any team in the playoffs.
Btw, the Dodgers won the championship too. That’s the point. They win now and reload for the future
For the Rays, combine multiple guys in their bullpen who are 6’5+ and were starters in the minors. They also have Brendan McKay(12th ranked prospect in Mlb last year, Shane McClanahan, to a lesser extent Shane Baz(also top 100 arm) who are all in their team top 7 and are knocking on the MLB door. Honeywell was a top 50 prospect last year too
Again. Just because you don’t know the other players doesn’t they won’t impact decision making and their long term plan
For the last part where you continue to ignore my valid comparison, pitchers that their team believes is a TOR arm, multiple years of control, and they don’t trade him… just to see his value tank… Mike minor. Corey Kluber. I can find more. This is off the top of my head! You’re wrong buddy
“ They can get one without trading their #1 starter.”
1. He’s not their nor A #1
2. No they can’t. They’ve had the best system or top 5 for years, and have failed repeatedly
“ This is the only time I’ve ever heard that. If it is true, good luck winning that.”
Good job admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about or the background of the trade. Go ahead, do a little homework and educate yourself
“ This conversation isn’t about long-term value. I never said the Rays won’t get more long-term value by trading Snell. But that’s completely beside the point.”
If you don’t think trading snell is about long term value you’re useless in this conversation. Sorry it’s too hard for you to consider more than one season
“ What’s your point? There’s always risk involved in not trading starters at peak value no matter who you are. By your logic, the Dodgers should trade Walker Buehler. The Cardinals should trade Jack Flaherty. Why do you think they aren’t doing that?”
You once again pull examples that have NOTHING in common with Snell and then claim you won a point. Neither of them are making 13M on a 60M payroll team. he’s 25% of the payroll!
Further the dodgers and cards are going to talk extension with both those guys. They are in arbitration. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SNELL OR IF HE SHOULD BE TRADED. he signed one of those extensions, and is now part way thru it.
He’s in year 9 of service time? If you claim Boyd isn’t a valid trade example because his team isn’t winning like the Rays, there’s no way it’s valid to compare year 1+2 arbitration guys and a guy who’s already on an expensive extension.
“ None of those guys have proven anything. Snell has. It’s those guys they should be trading for a catcher.”
The point is simple, you just don’t want to acknowledge it. The rays need to trade to improve. They cannot just create a catcher out of thin air. Why trade pitchers with 5 years of control, 2 at min, while paying Snell AAV 13M to produce similar results? Especially if you think those guys can be starters, and therefore increase their trade value in just one season?
At this point, the young relievers have that value. A young reliever. Not a starting pitcher. If the Rays envision the guy in a starting role, which would instantly increase his value.. should they trade him before he increases his value, or let him excel in 2021 in the rotation then assess if he’s a a building block or a huge trade asset? Cmon, you can do it
Oh and by trading a young guy over Snell, they are guaranteeing they get less for Snell AND the young pitchers. Snell loses value on opening day even if he maintains his performance. If he doesn’t? They’re screwed.
Go look at their bullpen. They aren’t scrubs. just because you don’t know their names do not mean they suck
“
Everything you’ve said is basically just rehashing your continued hot air. Only now you’re showing desperation.”
And how funny. I’m desperate?! You’re the idiot comparing pre arb and arb pitchers at 25 to guys who are 31+ and on the back end of an extension. You end on an insult, when you’re the one pulling random examples to prove your point, then jumping up and down screaming LOOK
Sorry you don’t understand maximizing the value of assets. It’s business 101. Keep huffing and puffing all you want. You just keep confirming you don’t know what you’re talking about, because you can’t consider the Rays business situation
“Good job admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about or the background of the trade. Go ahead, do a little homework and educate yourself”
I know plenty about the trade. Either way, that’s not a winnable grievance.
“If you don’t think trading snell is about long term value you’re useless in this conversation. Sorry it’s too hard for you to consider more than one season”
Obviously trading him would be about long-term value. But the Rays aren’t rebuilding. They just won the AL pennant. Sometimes it makes sense to focus on the here and the now. Just a lil bit.
“You once again pull examples that have NOTHING in common with Snell and then claim you won a point. Neither of them are making 13M on a 60M payroll team. he’s 25% of the payroll!”
Those guys have everything in common with Snell. They are young stars on good teams whose trade values will never be higher than they are right now.
“Further the dodgers and cards are going to talk extension with both those guys. They are in arbitration. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SNELL OR IF HE SHOULD BE TRADED. he signed one of those extensions, and is now part way thru it.”
They aren’t guaranteed to sign extensions just because the team wants them to. Plenty of good players don’t.
“He’s in year 9 of service time?”
Who now?
“If you claim Boyd isn’t a valid trade example because his team isn’t winning like the Rays…”
He isn’t. If Tampa weren’t contending NOW I would be all for them trading Snell. But they are. And Snell helps them NOW more than anything they could reasonably get for him.
“… there’s no way it’s valid to compare year 1+2 arbitration guys and a guy who’s already on an expensive extension.”
An expensive extension? LOL! The Braves are paying Snell peanuts for his production.
“The point is simple, you just don’t want to acknowledge it. The rays need to trade to improve. They cannot just create a catcher out of thin air. Why trade pitchers with 5 years of control, 2 at min, while paying Snell AAV 13M to produce similar results? Especially if you think those guys can be starters, and therefore increase their trade value in just one season?”
That’s an easy one. Because those other starters aren’t guaranteed to be as good as Snell. Or even stick in the majors. You want the Braves to think like a rebuilding team even though they are clearly not.
“At this point, the young relievers have that value. A young reliever. Not a starting pitcher. If the Rays envision the guy in a starting role, which would instantly increase his value.. should they trade him before he increases his value, or let him excel in 2021 in the rotation then assess if he’s a a building block or a huge trade asset? Cmon, you can do it”
If he fails in a starting role then his value goes in the toilet and takes a toll on the Rays’ hopes of contending. Prospects bust all the time.
“Oh and by trading a young guy over Snell, they are guaranteeing they get less for Snell AND the young pitchers. Snell loses value on opening day even if he maintains his performance. If he doesn’t? They’re screwed.”
And undeniably increase their odds of winning the WS in 2021. Also, if every team followed your logic, trades of prospects or post-prospects for proven starting pitchers would never happen. Take the Padres’ trade for Mike Clevinger for instance. Surely no one thought Mike Clevinger’s trade value would go up after they made the trade. And all the players they traded away except Austin Hedges’ trade values are very likely to go up in the future. So why did they make that trade?
“Go look at their bullpen. They aren’t scrubs. just because you don’t know their names do not mean they suck”
I never said they suck. They just aren’t proven frontline starters like Blake Snell.
“And how funny. I’m desperate?! You’re the idiot comparing pre arb and arb pitchers at 25 to guys who are 31+ and on the back end of an extension.”
Back end? He has three years left! And his extension was for five years when he signed it so if anything he’s in the middle of it. By the way, “Idiot?” I promise you do not want to get into the ad homnems with me.
You end on an insult, when you’re the one pulling random examples to prove your point, then jumping up and down screaming LOOK”
Oh my God! Pot meet kettle.
“Sorry you don’t understand maximizing the value of assets. It’s business 101.”
I literally gave examples of assets that are at max value. Like Fernando Tatis Jr and Walker Buehler. Actually read other people’s comments. Or have someone else read them to you.
“Keep huffing and puffing all you want. You just keep confirming you don’t know what you’re talking about, because you can’t consider the Rays business situation”
And you keep pushing your continued hot air, fluff and double-talk because you can’t consider their competitive situation.
“I know plenty about the trade. Either way, that’s not a winnable grievance.”
Lmfao you don’t even know what the grievance is you moron! How do you know?
And it certainly was. The dodgers were sending him to the pen for multiple years in a Row in august/sept to avoid him hitting his highest incentive, so they could avoid the luxury tax. Again stop talking about things you know nothing about. It makes everything else you say carry less weight. Just admit you have no idea what happened
“ “You once again pull examples that have NOTHING in common with Snell and then claim you won a point. Neither of them are making 13M on a 60M payroll team. he’s 25% of the payroll!”
Those guys have everything in common with Snell. They are young stars on good teams whose trade values will never be higher than they are right now.”
clearly trading Snell is about money, but you ignore their contract situations entirely. You’re real annoying. They ALL are arb or pre arb. Multiple years of cheap control left. Snell is on an extension after arb. It’s ENTIRELY different
Please show me how anyone of those guys is 25% of their teams entire payroll?
“
They aren’t guaranteed to sign extensions just because the team wants them to. Plenty of good players don’t.”
So what? That’s not the point. All of this points to they are different situations. You’re just too dense to admit it
“ An expensive extension? LOL! The Braves are paying Snell peanuts for his production.
You want the Braves to think like a rebuilding team even though they are clearly not.”
What I want is for you to know what team Snell plays for
“I literally gave examples of assets that are at max value. Like Fernando Tatis Jr and Walker Buehler. Actually read other people’s comments. Or have someone else read them to you.”
While ignoring their contract situation, which is the entire back drop for why a team trades a star. Money.
Until you give me examples with the same star power AND same contract, you’re just naming cheap stars to comp someone making 25% of a teams payroll
Btw, none Flaherty, Buehler or Tatis are more than 5% of their team payroll.
25% > 5%
Until you have examples that reach ALL the same parameters, you’re just an idiot
Oh no I said it. I’ll say it again! You’re an idiot if you think the contract situations of Tatis, Buehler or Flaherty are anyway the same as Snell
More needlessly long comments that are 5% substance and 95% fluff, hot air and ad hominems from you. But what else am I to expect? Your responses are a lot like I’m sure your breath… reeks of hot trash…
“And it certainly was. The dodgers were sending him to the pen for multiple years in a Row in august/sept to avoid him hitting his highest incentive, so they could avoid the luxury tax. Again stop talking about things you know nothing about. It makes everything else you say carry less weight. Just admit you have no idea what happened”
You can’t file a grievance just because a team won’t trade you. Well… technically you can. But you will never win. Maeda would have to prove that the Dodgers were specifically trying to keep him from reaching his incentives.
“clearly trading Snell is about money, but you ignore their contract situations entirely. You’re real annoying. They ALL are arb or pre arb. Multiple years of cheap control left. Snell is on an extension after arb. It’s ENTIRELY different”
I know this is nitpicky on my part, but Snell would still be in his arb years if not for that extension. Only the final year of his extension would have been a free agent year. And no matter what kind of contract Snell is on, he also has “multiple years of cheap control left” when you consider his production.
“So what? That’s not the point. All of this points to they are different situations. You’re just too dense to admit it”
They are the exact same situation. I’ve already explained multiple times why. YOU are just too dense to admit it.
“What I want is for you to know what team Snell plays for”
Ok, I misspoke there. He definitely plays for the Rays. A team that is coming off a World Series appearance and the best record in the AL. Something I’d assume they wish to repeat and hopefully actually bring home a championship this time around.
“While ignoring their contract situation, which is the entire back drop for why a team trades a star. Money.”
Not at all. Both are one year from arbitration where their salaries will start to climb and their trade values will start to plummet.
“Until you give me examples with the same star power AND same contract, you’re just naming cheap stars to comp someone making 25% of a teams payroll
Btw, none Flaherty, Buehler or Tatis are more than 5% of their team payroll.”
They might not be YET but their salaries will begin to escalate in the not-too-distant future. Because they are still making the league minimum. In fact, it looks like Buehler actually will be first time arb eligible this winter. But it doesn’t matter what percentage they are of their team’s payroll. All that matters is their production relative to what they are making. If the Rays trade Snell, they will just have to replace his production in FA or fall back in the rankings. And replacing his production in FA will cost even more.
You’re too full of yourself to see that though aren’t you? Well i’m sorry mullethead, but there’s absolutely no pill to cure your jaded reality of how things “should be run.” I’ll say it again… there are currently available GM jobs that you could work up through the ranks to try and put your money where your mouth is… until then, all you currently offer is fluff, hot air and ad hominems.
Agree with all of this, Hyrax.
Gonsolin, Ruiz and a third non-Lux/May prospect.
The Dodgers would be…quite good at day’s end, were it to happen…..
Not sure if they would trade in their own division, but who do you all think the Yankees would need to trade to get this done. Let’s keep in mind – while he is 2 years removed from a CY Young, at $13 mil per year, for 3 years, and about 5 -6 innings per start, I would peg him as a #3/#4 – so ridiculousness of Dominguez or Garcia.
lol at Yankees fans. I don’t think any team’s fans overvalues their prospects like you all do. Snell is even better in the postseason than the regular season. A package *starts* with Dominguez, who’s just a top-50 prospect. Yankees fans act like he’s Mike Trout 2.0.
Yes, Yankee fans are the only ones suggesting lowball offers. Look at the Adell for Snell straight up offer below. Just one of myriad bad proposals on this thread. You guys are something attacking NYY fans when everybody does it. There are very few solid offers being proposed here by fans of many, many teams.
He called it ridiculous to include Dominguez. At least Adell was at one point the #3 prospect in the game. Offering the former #3 prospect is better than laughing at including the #48. In that offer below, I also say that’s not enough.
I just don’t think the teams #1 prospect is the starting point. I think major league ready and layers are a starting point, like Schmidt or other top 10 that are older than 18.
But, the question was who, glad you were able to explain who not. Adds a lot of value.
Adell for Morton straight up?
Adell for Morton? They’d have to talk to the Braves about that one.
Adell for Snell? I don’t think that’d be enough. Adell looked seriously overmatched in his first trip to the majors. I believe he’ll still be successful, but he’s not enough to get Snell on a team-friendly deal. Good start, though.
Ya sorry it was a typo on that one I meant Snell… Adell did look overmatched at first but started to look much better. Also not enough to hurt his value as a top prospect. Rays need an outfield bat they can control. Maybe Adell and a Rivera?
Adell for Snell straight up?
A poster at Lookout Landing contributed an interesring comp to lefthander James Paxton, who was two years older than Blake Snell’s current age when the Mariners traded Paxton to the Yankees.
At the time of the trade, Paxton had posted 13.6 fWAR and 10.9 bWAR ion 582.1 career innings. Blake Snell has posted 11.6 fWAR and 11.3 bWAR in 556.1 career innings.
Paxton had two years of team control, for which the lefty was ultimately paid just over $21 million. Snell has three years and $39 million remaining on his contract.
Paxton and Snell each have durability issues although Paxton posted quality starts in 15 of 28 starts the season before the trade while Snell posted no quality starts in 16 starts between the 2020 regular season and postseason.
In November 2018 the Yankees traded lefthander Justus Sheffield, righthander Erik Swanson and outfielder Dom Thompson-Williams for Paxton. Baseball America ranked Sheffield No. 41 in its 2018 preseason prospect list and No. 27 in the preseason list following the trade. In 10 starts this year Sheffield ranked 26th among all pitchers with 1.6 fWAR. Swanson made eight starts for the 2019 Mariners but has fallen down the organizational depth charts. Neither MLB Pipeline nor FanGraphs lists Thompson-Williams among Seattle’s Top 30 prospects.
Should Snelll command a package similar to one the Mariners received for Paxton?
Ok based on a lot of the comments here this is where I’d start a package at from the Mariners.
Snell & KK
for
Luis Torrens, Justin Dunn, Taylor Trammell and Brandon Williamson
Three guys that could be on the big league club right now and a pitching prospect
Rays get out of that KK contract. If the Rays wanted a better pitching prospect then maybe swap Dunn and Williamson for Kirby and then maybe add a bullpen arm??
This is yet another scenario in which the White Sox could kill two birds with one stone this offseason by making a single trade. Earlier I had the White Sox lining up with the Rockies in a trade for their ace German Márquez and RF Charlie Blackmon to give the Rockies salary relief while also obtaining some fine young MLB ready talent. The White Sox are seeking both a TOR for their rotation and a RF. The White Sox could gain an advantage in trade talks with the Rays by offering to take on the contract of OF Kevin Kiermaier in addition to that of ace Blake Snell.
Kiermaier could give the White Sox a second Gold Glover in their outfield to pair with rookie Luis Robert. Left-handed hitting Kiermaier could move to RF as the White Sox primary starter, perhaps in a straight platoon with another GG caliber defender, righty hitting Adam Engel. Kiermaier doesn’t have awful splits (baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=kierm…) versus LHP but does show more power versus opposite side pitching, much like Engel does versus LHP. One of the two could also replace defensively challenged LF Eloy Jimenez late in games while also affording Robert a needed day off in CF. Imagine the defense the White Sox could put out late in games with a narrow lead with Engel in LF, Robert in CF and Kiermaier in RF!
Be careful.. if the rays are looking to unload him, he must be damaged goods.
I’m leaning towards this being true.
FWIW Blake Snell posted 7.1 bWAR over 31 starts in his 2018 Cy Young season but has posted only 2.5 bWAR in 34 regular-season starts since then.
This is the move Sandy Alderson was waiting for.
Nearing his 29th birthday, Erik Bedard had posted 12.8 bWAR over 658 career innings when the Orioles traded the lefthander to the Mariners in February 2008. Bedard was coming off a 2007 season with an ERA of 3.16, an ERA+ of 146 and 5.7 bWAR over 182 innings.
Blake Snell, who turns 28 next month, has posted 11.3 bWAR over 556 career innings. Over the past two seasons the lefthander has posted an ERA of 3.96, an ERA+ of 111 and 2.5 bWAR over 157 innings, including an ERA of 3.24, and ERA+ of 131 and 1.1 bWAR in 50 innings this year.
Like Snell, Bedard had durability issues but the Mariners snagged two years of the southpaw for the modest package of Adam Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman and Kam Mickolio.
Buyer beware.
Tony Butler was included in the five-player trade package for Erik Bedard in 2008.
Seeing how the Clevinger trade worked out, I would be super hesitant to deal with a team trying to trade their best (or one of) starters while still in contention. Like, why ARE they trying to trade him?
Depreciation
It’s. Not. Hard.
They could get a future MOR arm with 5 years of control, their future 21 year old catcher and probably another 2 pieces this year easily from LAD, with many other teams in the running too
Snell has a bad year? Or worse, he gets hurt? That package dissipates fast. Where’s Lance Lynn’s Massive package? Mike minor? Robby ray?
The moment he starts opening day, his value is only decreasing from here. They sound like they need to trade him or KK, because of COVID losses
Further, it’s pretty clear there’s some animosity from his usage in the WS. That interview was intense, so imagine behind the scenes
“Depreciation”
“It’s. Not. Hard.”
By that same logic, the Padres should trade Fernando Tatis Jr. The Nats should trade Juan Soto. The Dodgers should trade Walker Buehler. The Cardinals should trade Jack Flaherty. Because apparently moving guys at peak value is more important than the product on the field, right?
Omfg stop with your bs analogies to claim you win
Those guys have NOTHING in common with Snell. Pull a valid comparison or shut up
So to summarize, no, it is not by that same logic
Those guys have everything in common with Snell. They are all proven stars on contending teams whose trade values will never higher than they are right now. Way more in common than Matt Boyd (still Laughing @ You for that ridiculous comparison)
Adell for Snell