The Mets could go after Indians shortstop Francisco Lindor in a trade during the offseason, but the return might prove prohibitive for New York. As David Lennon of Newsday tweets, the Indians could ask for an Andres Gimenez–Jeff McNeil tandem in trade talks. That would be a lot for the Mets, who saw Gimenez perform well as a rookie in 2020 and who have gotten tremendous production from the versatile McNeil dating back to his 2018 debut. McNeil has batted an outstanding .319/.383/.501 in 1,024 major league plate appearances, so it seems highly unlikely the Mets will part with him and Gimenez for one year of control over Lindor.
- Former Marlins president of baseball operations Michael Hill, whom they parted with in late October, continues to look like a serious candidate for the Angels’ general manager job. Hill will have an in-person meeting soon with Angels owner Arte Moreno, according to Jon Heyman of MLB Network.
- Padres left-hander Matt Strahm recently underwent successful surgery on his partially torn right patellar tendon, Robert Murray of Fansided reports. The 28-year-old Strahm logged a 2.61 ERA/4.93 FIP with a career-worst 6.53 K/9 against 1.74 BB/9 over 20 2/3 innings in 2020.
- John Baker looks like the front-runner to take over as the Pirates’ farm director, Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh-Post Gazette reports. The former major league catcher has been working in the Cubs’ front office since 2015.
Hill was regarded highly enough as the Marlins team president under Loria for over 15 years to remain aboard with Jeter and company.
Patient company men like Hill and “Trader Ned” Colletti may be especially well suited to working for and possibly thriving under Moreno.
Ugh. This is so on point and I hate it. Passing around puppets.
The only reason Hill stayed with Jeter and Co was due to an absurd new contract Loria gave Hill just prior to selling the team.
Hill would be such a boring hire for baseball fans…
Bingo. Hill no doubt provided some value, but he only stayed because Loria gifted him a reported $10M contract while the club was being sold. Loria knew it would be the next owner’s problem. Jeter simply let him stay around until the contract ended. That’s not to say Hill wasn’t respected or wasn’t providing value. He’ll land solidly elsewhere. As we saw with Cohen and the Mets, when the new regime comes in, they usually clean house. They want to put their own team in place. The Marlins didn’t have the same financial resources as Cohen to do the same, so they kept Hill employed.
LOL, I was waiting for this post that gives Hill any credibility.
The guy was a buffoon who would’ve been fired if Loria didn’t gift him a contract extension for being a good “yes man”. Everyone here in Miami was relieved when this clown was finally let go.
Good luck Angels. I personally wish he would sign with an NL East team to wreck them.
The Angels have been also-rans for too long. Hill ain’t gonna change that. But you know our owner likes to run the show, so Hill will be nothing more than a mouthpiece for Mr. M.
Hill would probably work well with Moreno.
Angel fans who expect highly sought after GM’s are silly.
Anyone who takes that job has to be Arte’s puppet.
The Angels are going to announce Michael hill is their new general manager
LOL. Poor Mike Trout.
The same poor Mike Trout who no one forced to sign with that joke of an organization?
If that’s really what Cleveland’s asking price is, I’d check the water.
Maybe the Indians would take Gimenez and a prospect if the Mets agree to take on the final four years of Carrasco’s contract. Not an outrageous contract at 4 years and $47 million, but Carrasco will be 34 by opening day and the Indians seem headed for a rebuild. So Gimenez and another young building block that the Indians really like might work. On the Mets side, Carrasco would assure them of not coming away empty-handed if they are unable to extend Lindor. Of course, the objective should be having Lindor for many years to come.
Carrasco consistently far outperforms the value of his contract. He has lots of positive value, not negative. If you add him to the trade the Mets would have to add a lot more, not subtract.
I agree the Mets would have to add more, just not someone like McNeil. The Indians are shedding payroll and entering a rebuilding phase. They will be discussing Lindor with quite a few teams. I didn’t say Carrasco had a negative value. Just that the Indians might want to attach him to Lindor to shed salary while also getting young players they really like. They will try to get the best deal they can. It will depend on two things. A. How much they like what various teams are willing to give. 2. How much payroll they’ll be looking to shed or take on. Guarantee the Indians will not get both Gimenez and McNeil for one year of McNeil. Surrendering McNeil would defeat the Mets’ win-now purpose. And considering McNeil turns 29 in April, you have to question how much value he would have for a rebuilding team. Ther Indians have said Lindor will be traded. That doesn’t mean they’ll get whatever they initially ask for. If they aren’t willing to bend, they will be stuck paying Lindor money they claim they can’t afford.
Don’t underestimate what COVID has done. Teams are going to get rid of good players in order to get rid of their contracts. I’m not saying this deal is feasible… I’m just saying
Can’t give up too much for Linder. He can walk after 2021. Would still like to have him, however, ain’t willing to trade the sun, moon and sky to get it done.
First, the Indians are not planning a rebuild. Second, I doubt that the Indians trade Carlos Carrasco. He has signed two different team friendly deals committing to the Indians. Carrasco is the heart of the Indian locker room. Every young team needs a positive leader. Why trade someone that wants to play his entire career in Cleveland.
If they aren’t planning a rebuild why are they even mentioning trading Lindor?
Because they don’t have the cash to extend Lindor, and he will be a free agent after this season. The Indians FO likes to get value out of their players by trading them a year or two early rather than losing them for nothing.
He has one year of control and they can’t resign him. We go over this every time. Small market teams like the Indians and Rays are constantly reshuffling the roster to make the best use of what money they have. Cleveland will be working with less capital due to the losses from Covid 19. With their controllable starting pitching, they will still contend in the AL Central.
@dan55 so what if they don’t have the cash to extend him? He can’t leave until AFTER 2021. Not before, AFTER. If they aren’t planning to rebuild or at least reload in 2021 it truly does not matter.
@hockeyjohn…
“With their controllable starting pitching, they will still contend in the AL Central.”
I’ll take “Things that won’t happen” for $500 Alex.
Really man? Why is this still a hard concept?
They don’t want to give him 300M
So they could play 2021 with him, get to the ALDS, and then get eliminated. Then they get a 4th rounder?
Or they can cut 17M from their payroll, down to just 50M, and also get one or more guys making the minimum or close to it. To fill 2 more spots for 500K
They are cutting money. It’s not about winning. But It’s also about not letting him leave for nothing
Really man? You don’t think the Indians have what it takes to win the WS? They had the fourth best record in the American League this past season. They don’t have to give him $300m. If they can win the WS in 2021 then that is all that matters.
They won’t get a fourth rounder. That is for teams that are paying the luxury tax. The Indians receive revenue sharing and it’s pretty certain that Lindor signs for over $50m so the comp pick they get from the QO would be after the first round.
Teams let good players leave for nothing all the time. Just this offseason the Reds are letting Bauer leave for nothing, the Phillies are letting Realmuto leave for nothing and the Astros are letting Springer leave for nothing. If a good player leaving for nothing were such a problem then the Indians wouldn’t get jack squat for Lindor because any acquiring team knows that that is probably what is going to happen.
Not true, all 3 are wanted back by their teams. They are just trying to drive the price up AND none are 27 years old.
I mean, If they planned to throw another 50M at the team, sure they’re a legitimate contender
But they just cut their closer because 10M was too much. LAD paid a reliever 10M to pitch the 7th most of the year
So no. Even with Lindor I don’t think they are competition in the top tier of the AL, or LAD. Not sure they are even in the SD/ATL/Oak A tier of teams. They’re built to win the central, compete with the White Sox+Twins for a WC/division, and they’ve been subtracting from the team for the last 3 years without replenishing significant talent. Testing how cheaply they can still be competitive.
With the draft pick, my bad. That’s better than I thought they’d get. But adding in they don’t want to pay him 17M+… I think they will value a prospect or 2 further along+the $ saved than having Lindor to get to the LDS, plus a 2nd rounder basically
Do you think they are real competition for NYY, TB, even Houston In a 7 game set? I don’t.
They should get 2 guys or more who will be at least capable MLB contributors. For a team as cheap as Cleveland, plus the other factors.. I expect them to bite
JimTheGoat, first off, the Indians are planning on trading Lindor now because he is only under contract for next year. If they keep him on the team, he leaves for only a first/second round pick. Trading him allows them to get value in the form of other players/salary relief from his ~$20 million contract.
In regards to your point about winning a World Series, what about the current Cleveland Indians team gives you hope that they can win a World Series? They got bounced out of the first round this year, and they do not have enough incoming talent to get better. Not only that, they just cut their best reliever over $10 million. If the Indians decide to go for a World Series with Lindor, then they will almost certainly lose in the playoffs again and then lose Lindor in the offseason. If they trade Lindor, then they have a chance to get some solid Major/minor league players from him, and that will enable them to compete in the future.
@Laughing@You according to their owner Paul Dolan they intend to field a competitive team next year. Trading Lindor does not a competitive team make. And their fans on here also say that they will try to contend next year.
They are good enough to make it to the playoffs, especially if they keep the expanded format. And anything can happen in a short series, especially with their starting pitching.
@dan55 I swear you people talk about Lindor leaving like it’s the end of the world. If this was a rebuilding team like the Orioles or Pirates I would agree but the Indians are trying to win NOW and Lindor helps them NOW. Lindor making $20m isn’t a big deal because his production allows them to shirk at the other positions more than a replacement level player would.
They are good enough to make the playoffs. Once they get there, anything can happen.
@metfan4ever the point is they made it to free agency. Which according to you a good player making it to free agency is game over. So why weren’t they traded last August?
JimTheGoat, I 100% agree with you that the Indians should keep Lindor. They are trying to compete next year, and it’s best for them to keep their best player on the field. However, the owners of Cleveland are unwilling to spend any money, so trading Lindor is a necessity for the franchise. They want to trade him so that they can avoid paying him his salary of $20 million, and they would also like to get some cheaper players back. That is why trading him is so important for the Indians.
Trading Lindor will cost them more money because his production will just have to be replaced. They aren’t replacing his production for less than $20m.
Eh, you could get his production from someone else. He’s not exactly been lighting it on fire the last couple of seasons.
Trading Lindor and rebuilding aren’t mutually exclusive. The Indians organization doesn’t appear to be in a position where they want to pay for what Lindor will cost over the long-term, if they can find a suitable replacement via trade/FA signing at a much cheaper cost, and possibly gaining a piece or two to help them win-now, or build for the immediate future.
Look at their roster, look at the ages and names of the starters and their depth pieces. They are young, and very, very good. Yes, they have their work cut out for them in an AL Central that is rapidly improving, arguably with 4 of the 5 teams as legit contenders for the AL Central crown come 2022, but they aren’t going to “rebuild” prime years of their core player base into oblivion.
Every owner is going to say they intend to field a competitive team.
@vtncsc where? If not from Lindor where are the Indians going to get a lifetime 117 OPS+ who averages 6 WAR over 162 games for his career for $20m or less without paying him until he’s in his 40’s? Go on, I’ll wait.
@Alex Jones there is no player as good as Lindor that will cost less and who will also net them another piece or two.
“… but they aren’t going to “rebuild” prime years of their core player base into oblivion.”
They’re already kinda doing it
@jim He will make $20 million in 2021. That is why he will be traded.
$20m is a bargain for his kind of production
When did I make that point. Because you’re misreading it.
This year Lindor hit a 258 with 8 hrs and an obp of 338 over a third of a season. I didn;t know it cost more then 20 mill for that production
Uhhhhhh Carrasco’s contract is not a burden, it’s a team friendly deal and has very good value. This isn’t the same as the Red Sox including Price in the Betts deal. Carrasco’s control also includes options so if his performance was to fall off the team could simply choose not to keep him. Like I said, it’s a team friendly deal for a damn good SP.
If Lindor cannot be signed to an extension then the team that acquired him would make the QO which would either keep him around for another year or net them a compensatory draft pick. They also have the ability to negotiate an extension after acquiring him instead of getting involved in a bidding war after the season.
The Indians have the best pitching staff in baseball while being one of the youngest. They are not “headed for a rebuild”. They can also make Carrasco and/or Ramirez available if they wanted to acquire young, cost controlled, talented players ready to contribute. They cannot replace Ramirez with a better 3B, but they may be able to improve the overall quality of the team by trading him. Can you imagine the amount of young talent that could be acquired by trading Lindor, Ramirez, and Carrasco? I’m not advocating that they do that, but theoretically makes a lot of sense.
Lindor and carrasco for rosario Mauricio Nimmo Alonso wolf.
Alonso is completely off limits, per the front office. He is the face of the franchise w. DeGrom. Fans love the long ball. Package-wise, it’s def. in the ballpark of what would be needed bc Carrasco has a great contract and is a solid starter, and Lindor is a great player. He did under-performance this past season, so that may offer a bit of a pause to a few clubs, but there will likely only be 2-4 clubs who could use an upgrade at SS AND can realistically take on his contract right now.
The Mets should wait this out bc they have plenty of good depth at SS, and I suspect a super-soft market bc of his contract and many teams wanting to slash payroll. The Mets can afford him and I think they’d be a strong option for an extension. I think a long-term extension is actually easier for 5-6yrs bc of AAV than a higher AAV for a 1-3yr type deal. The Mets also finally have ownership that has $ to spend, so they don’t have to play shell games to look like they spend money.
Cey Hey, as a Blue Jays fan I have been eyeing Carrasco as a possible trade target thinking he’s the kind of money that Cleveland might like to shed, but I was under the impression that it was only 2 more years at $12m with the 3rd year being a vesting option (170 IP) for $14m. To me there is excess value on that alone and Cleveland could just shop it in a separate trade and enjoy a reasonable return. Am I missing something about Carrasco? I know there’s the leukemia thing, but he came back strong from that.
Not a fan of the Indians or Mets, so I have no horse in this race. I will say your words are undervaluing Carrasco by a lot. First, according to B-R, he only has two years remaining at $12M per. It’s an undervalued deal. He’s a $20M+ AAV pitcher on the open market, at least in a non-COVID year. He’d have significant trade value on his own, especially since there’s a team-friendly option for a third year. Carrasco over six of the last seven seasons has averaged an ERA+ in the mid 135 range. (We’ll give him a pass on that one off year for understandable reasons.) He’d immediately be the Mets second best starter, even when Thor returns.
I think the biggest issue here would be Carrasco leaving Cleveland. He signed a team-friendly deal to stay there, and just went through a major life event. He has 10-5 rights.
The odd thing is one year of Lindor at nearly $20M is actually worth less prospect wise than the potential of three years of Carrasco at $38M.
Bundling Lindor and Carrasco is fine, but unlike the Betts deal, it significantly increases the prospect cost.
Well said and reasoned. CLE continues to be in a tough spot by wanting to compete every year, but being financially restricted by ownership. They are really fortunate to have so many quality arms because otherwise they’d be in some trouble for the next few years. I’m a Mets fan, though I have watched a ton of Tribe games and I think they run a pretty solid organization overall.
I like youre thinking
Mets proposal would likely start with Rosario.
Why would anyone want Rosario as a starting point in a trade. He isn’t even the best ss on the Mets. Last year he was almost unplayable. Why would Cleveland trade Lindor for that
Advanced stats. Rosario has put up streaks of a few months of great hitting, but he lacks consistency. I can see him going elsewhere and really pulling it together. The Mets have been a dumpster fire as an org, and Rosario has been jerked around, so I think a lot of opposing fans don’t see much in his slash line, but watching his ABs…he has really improved.. I think his floor is 90-100 OPS w. an average glove, with an upside of hitting a lot of doubles and playing solid defense up the middle.
My gosh, that rumor of an asking price for Lindor with the Mets has got to be some bull started by Mike Lupica as David Lennon’s advisor. If that were true, the Marlins should jump in because they could top that trade package without breaking a sweat. So could many many many many other teams.
WHO WOULD the Marlin have to match McNeil
Not Washington. Lol.
McNeil and Gimenez for Lindor? Interesting. Although, McNeil’s versatility may cause the Mets to pause.
There is no way those two players is all it would take for Lindor
If the Indians say no to that deal. Their Gm should get fired on the spot…. how do you say no??? McNeil is cheap for the next 3-5 years and hits 320 with 20 hr. Plays 4 positions. He arguably has more value than Lindor of 1 year…. at 21 mil. No one is arguing McNeil is better but you got to look at value not who is better
McNeil alone is arguably more valuable to the Mets than one year of Lindor. They’d have to at least have an extension agreed to before the deal for that to be fair.
Lol there’s no way I’m doing that if I’m the Mets GM
I would never trade McNeil to get lindor, it just doesn’t make sense. McNeil has proven that he can perform in citifield. Until you have proven to do so, I never assume that a players numbers elsewhere will directly translate to spacious citifield. I’m not saying lindor won’t be good but not someone I’m paying top dollar for.
SS is not a hole on this team. Giminez is fine. They need a C, CF and 3b. Realmuto and springer are achievable by free agency. They need a 3b, arenado or Chapman would be my choices.
As for pitching, I’m looking to trade Alonso for snell or another #2 and then signing one. I don’t think Alonso has much value on this team since Smith is the better player and should be at 1b.
Chapman? A’s aren’t trading him – he’s controllable and cheap. Nor is Tampa moving Snell for Alonzo. They can get more and Alonzo is just a HR hitter.
Oakland traded Josh Donaldson around the same time in his service time. I would give up Diaz, Rosario plus prospects.
Alonso and matz for snell? They have been shedding payroll this off-season.
Can Alonso be traded for a #2 pitcher?
The Mets under new ownership may look to get a new “face of the franchise” type player, to create hype and interest within the fan base. That at least makes some sense, even if it doesn’t actually make the team better over the near or long-term to have Lindor instead of Gimenez/McNeil combo. Neither of those two bats they have right now are super star caliber players like Lindor is, and the Mets lack anyone else with that sort of a ceiling. Yes, Pete and Conforto are nice players, but they are far, far, from superstardom.
Also, nobody wants to hear about “oh Lindor had a bad season so he’s broken now”, – baseball people know better. They know this season was a complete farce, and the list of superstar/allstar talent that had absolute trainwrecks for seasons is longgggggggg. Lindor is 27 in a week, getting ready to hit the true “prime” of his career, and has already been an absolute monster before this abbreviated season. The Mets stand to have the cash/motiviation to sign him long-term.
It just makes sense, at least assuming that Lindor is willing to go to a team that reduces the likelihood that he’ll win a WS or even be a legit competitor come playoff time. That’s the one issue I see that could potentially prohibit a deal.
McNeil is not a CF. But he’s older, and we need to fix SS. I Love McNeil but we sit him to play Cano & others. Lindor’s #s play out the same as McNeil and fixes SS for our P. McNeil can’t do that for us. Also Realmuto & Springer cost picks and $$. James McCann- 7.1 career WAR and no compensation(lose of picks) and less $$, Jackie Bradley Jr. 17.8 WAR the same. If I give up picks & $ Then I’d sign Trevor Bauer. we need Pitching
Phew why do people think Lindor has a lot of value
He does not and we will see this. EVERYONE knows they’re gonna trade him. He’s not getting 2 guys off a major league roster lmfao
Brodie is gone buddy
Although McNeil is older than Lindor, his years of control would probably be attractive to Cleveland. I’m with you on his versatility. With fewer position players on modern rosters, guys like McNeil are great to have around when other players get hurt. Plus he’s a pretty good defender wherever the Mets put him. And that bat never suffers. Let’s not forget that the Mets would have to re-sign Lindor. Unless he pulls a Betts, that would create agita for Mets fans all season long and into the off-season. For me, it was a huge relief when the Dodgers signed Mookie to that extension.
Why would they “have” to re-sign Lindor if they trade for him?
Bro if the Mets trade for Lindor and don’t sign him long term…. that would be horrible… you don’t do that lol
@MetsFan22 sure you do. The Cubs did it with Aroldis Chapman. The Dodgers with Manny Machado. The Phillies with JT Realmuto. Etc. And it wouldn’t be horrible at all if they win the World Series next year with Lindor’s help.
Yeah, I’d still be pissed if got him for just one year…
Even if it leads to a championship?
And remember, that was also the plan with Mookie Betts until the Dodgers got serious and signed him.
Yeah, the Dodgers won the WS. Even if he had moved on after one year I have a hard time believing that their fans would be too upset. And it’s not like they didn’t pay him.
JT was 2 years and philly wants to keep him. Chapman was pissed by the way Madden used him and never wanted to leave the yankees. And Manny was near they end and his antics got to be disruptive
@metfan4ever Manny’s antics are fine. The Dodgers didn’t bring him back because they only needed him for 2018 since Corey Seager was hurt. Just because they have money doesn’t mean they are going to spend $300m of it on a guy who doesn’t fill a need.
The Cubs knew 2016 was their year, they got what they wanted out of Chapman. Whoever trades for Lindor is doing so because they think 2021 is their year, that’s all.
The Philly-Realmuto situation proves that trading for a guy just so you can try to extend him is bad process. Even if he does stay, unless he leaves significant $ on the table then the trade was still pointless.
It seems to happen more and more these days. Realmuto being a recent example.
Why would anyone want Rosario as a starting point in a trade. He isn’t even the best ss on the Mets. Last year he was almost unplayable. Why would Cleveland trade Lindor for that
I hate the Mets and yet know that would be a terrible trade for the Mets and since Brodies not in NY no chance they’ll do that. Lindor hit 254 last year with 8 hrs. I understand he’s better then that but to trade a ss whose under control for 5 years and seems to be at least an adequate ss probably better and 3 years of a 300 hitting everyday player who can play anywhere for 1 year of Lindor coming off of a bad year and making 20 mill is ridiculous
No way the Mets move McNeil though…he is a swiss army knife for positions and he has an above avg bat. Yes he is older at 28, but his numbers are elite. He is a 3+ WAR who can play nearly anywhere in the infield or outfield. He maximizes his value at 2B, but he can play everywhere but CF and 1B. He isn’t a FA until 2025 and he is dirt cheap. Every team in MLB would take a league minimum guy w a career 139 OPS+
His career slash line:
.319 / .383 / .501 / 884 OPS. & 139 OPS+
Lol either the reporting is horrible or the Indians are confused on how value works.
McNeil for Lindor is a overpay….. (we all know Lindor is a better player) but you got to look at years and money…
I doubt the Indians are asking for that. They know better. So it’s probably bad reporting.
No, it is reasonable to expect the Indians to begin negotiations by asking various teams for more than they ultimately expect to get. Those teams will then make counter-proposals and talks will continue until a deal is struck between the Indians and one of the teams. That is how these things work and it could take weeks or even months. As a baseball fan, you should know and understand this. Lennon is a beat writer with sources. To say it is “bad reporting” is trying to discredit him just to discredit him. Lindor is a superstar and you can bet the Indians are asking for the moon, just like the Marlins did with Realmuto, the Red Sox with Betts, etc. A team doesn’t initiate trade talks by lowballing themselves. The Mets already know this. They also know that they are just one of several teams inquiring about Lindor.
There’s a difference between “team did or did not ask for this”
And “team doesn’t expect to get this return, but you start high”
Both can be true though
Well……that depends. Will they extend Lindor? Will Lindor accept the QO? McNeil for 1 yr of Lindor could be an overpay. Then again it could not. These are the weights and measures that determine how good or bad a trade ultimately is. The problem with that is you never know until well after.
Acquiring Lindor is not going to come cheaply. Fans of other teams need to come to grips with that reality just like Cleveland fans need to realize that having a yr left before he can possibly hit FA isn’t as valuable as 2 yrs of control. Regardless, no team is getting him on the cheap. Think about the Betts deal minus the contract dump of an unwanted player. You can’t say Betts was a better player because he was also more expensive.
This may be a Johan Santana situation where an extension gets worked out first.
If so, I’d be more willing to give up McNeil if he was paired with Rosario and/or other non-pitching prospects. Gimenez could be McNeil with a better glove. Even if his bat doesn’t pan out, excellent defense and base running can carry a middle infielder.
I’d rather not have to give up McNeil. And I would just flat out not do it if an extension isn’t agreed to beforehand. But, a middle infield of Lindor and Gimenez with Realmuto behind the plate and a real CF (I know, getting ahead of myself), would vastly improve the Mets defense and ability to stop opponents’ running game.
There are a million ways this can work out. I’m excited that the Mets are involved in stuff like this again and seem serious about building a winning team now.
LFGM
You see, the problem with that, is that no extension happens without Frankie Lindor’s approval. And the window to do that probably closed a while ago.
He wouldn’t listen to the Mets because the Indians failed to negotiate an extension with him? That doesn’t seem to make a ton of sense. Especially, since he’ll otherwise become a free agent either during or on the heels of a pandemic and possibly (likely?) during the offseason before a work stoppage.
I’m guessing if the Mets call his agent (after getting permission or whatever), they return that call.
If you really think Lindor is about to get hosed in free agency (note: he won’t), why not wait until he is a free agent to sign him and keep your prospects?
I didn’t say he was going to get hosed in free agency. Also, this isn’t about what I think. It’s about what Lindor thinks he’ll get in free agency and how close whoever he’s talking to is to that figure.
The reason you trade and extend him is the same reason you’d sign him as a free agent (and give up a draft pick). Doing it earlier has the added bonus of not having to compete with other teams in free agency.
The whole point of extending him and not having to compete with other teams is to not have to pay as much $. If you are close to whatever he thinks he’ll get in free agency, then that defeats the purpose of trading for him. It means you are paying for him twice.
And as for having to give up the draft pick from the QO if you sign him, your 2nd round pick in 2022 isn’t worth nearly as much as it would take to trade for Lindor now. Not even close.
It doesn’t make any sense. Lindor would listen to an extension offer if the Mets or any other team including the Indians offered it. He and his agent have a number in mind that they feel he is worth and if the team that trades for him extends an offer close to that, you can be 100% sure he will both listen and negotiate with that team. To say otherwise is ludicrous.
@Koamalu you don’t have to trade for a player to pay him the market rate.
@Koamalu by your logic, the Cubs are not very smart for giving up valuable prospects for Aroldis Chapman. Or the Dodgers for Manny Machado. Or the Royals for Ben Zobrist. Regardless of their respective contributions to the team when they were there.
Of course Lindor would at least listen to their offers, but you were suggesting that they pay him close to what he and his agent feel he is worth in free agency. If you do that then it defeats the purpose of acquiring him early and taking the other teams out of the equation. You are already “paying more.”
So as you always like to say, “Anything else you care to be wrong about today?”
Also…
“More teams bidding means a higher price paid than 1 team bidding. Every time. 100%. Without question.”
That’s not true. There are plenty of examples of teams paying a premium to keep a guy they like off the open market. Justin Upton, Paul Goldschmidt, heck you could maybe even argue Mookie Betts. Trading for them made sense at the time because they filled an immediate need on a contender, but paying market rate to extend them was overkill.
Lol you just admitted to being PF again
No, but if you wait until FA then you are competing with other teams as well. There is an advantage to having the soon to be FA that you desire to keep on your roster as it allows you to negotiate an extension all season if necessary, even if you don’t think so. It’s an inside track that gives said team a better chance of keeping that player. With the current financial circumstance, you bet your ass a player will take the offer if they feel it is even close to competitive.
No, the whole point of extending him is to have a really good player on your team. Trading for him now would could cost more in terms of prospects/players, but they’d also have him for an extra year and it sure seems like Cohen wants to compete immediately.
Also, waiting a year and then signing him as a FA might not be an option. Mookie Betts is a good recent example.
If he’s not on your team, you do.
@cdav45…
“No, but if you wait until FA then you are competing with other teams as well.”
So? If you are already willing to pay him market value you’ll probably be able to sign him anyway.
“There is an advantage to having the soon to be FA that you desire to keep on your roster as it allows you to negotiate an extension all season if necessary, even if you don’t think so.”
Ask the Phillies (JT Realmuto) if that is true.
“With the current financial circumstance, you bet your ass a player will take the offer if they feel it is even close to competitive.”
So you want the team to give up a leaguewide top 100 prospect (possibly 2) and then ALSO pay the player free agent prices?
… k
@PitcherMeRolling…
“No, the whole point of extending him is to have a really good player on your team. Trading for him now would could cost more in terms of prospects/players, but they’d also have him for an extra year and it sure seems like Cohen wants to compete immediately.”
They don’t have to extend him to compete immediately bud.
“Also, waiting a year and then signing him as a FA might not be an option. Mookie Betts is a good recent example.”
Extending him might not be an option either. JT Realmuto is a good recent example. If they don’t extend him then they just gave up all those prospects for basically nothing. Also, how likely really is it that Lindor signs an extension at this point?
I didn’t say they have to extend Lindor or even acquire Lindor to compete immediately. I also was pretty clear that giving up much of anything for Lindor was predicated on being able to extend him. Just like the Johan Santana trade that I specifically referenced.
Grab some comprehension reps and get back to me, champ.
@Pads Fans bro, can you just stick to one account? You can’t possibly think you’re fooling anyone at this point. If you’re looking for camouflage this ain’t it.
In fact, I’m pretty sure you have to use a different email to make a new account on this site anyway. You have to be running out of backup emails. It can’t possibly be worth it when you sound exactly the same every time.
Nice cherry pick of Realmuto, and that example really points to what I’m saying. What, you don’t think that the Phillies made an offer before he hit FA? There are plenty of examples of players agreeing to extensions. As an Indians fan, I give you Kluber, Carrasco, Ramirez, and Perez as recent extension examples.
If the economic situation doesn’t change much, I think that increases the likelihood of players accepting the QO, which would obviously gain the team another year of the player.
Hell yes, I want the team to give up a league wide top 100 prospect(possibly 2). We’re not talking about some middling player here. It’s Francisco Lindor who happens to be the best damn SS in the league that instantaneously makes the Mets a better team. So you want to get one of the most dynamic players in MLB for castoffs?
…….K
@cdav45…
JT Realmuto is a perfect example of the flaw in your logic. The Phillies assumed that he would magically fall in love with the place and sign there for half of what the market offered when they traded for him, he didn’t and now they just traded a future #1 to a division rival for basically nothing.
“As an Indians fan, I give you Kluber, Carrasco, Ramirez, and Perez as recent extension examples.”
None were in the same situation that Lindor is in right now.
“If the economic situation doesn’t change much, I think that increases the likelihood of players accepting the QO, which would obviously gain the team another year of the player.”
It’ll be a cold day in Hell before Lindor accepts a QO.
“Hell yes, I want the team to give up a league wide top 100 prospect(possibly 2). We’re not talking about some middling player here. It’s Francisco Lindor who happens to be the best damn SS in the league that instantaneously makes the Mets a better team. So you want to get one of the most dynamic players in MLB for castoffs?”
No! I think the Mets should wait a year to sign Francisco. If they’re going to pay free agent prices anyway, then there is no reason to give up a leaguewide top 100 prospect (maybe even 2) on top of that. Trading for Lindor is not a prerequisite for signing him. If it was, the Indians wouldn’t be trading him in the first place.
Now that the Mets don’t have BVW as GM, they are FAAAAAR less likely to accept a sucker deal like BVW did for Cano. Ugh….Kelenic could win ROY when he comes up as a CF.
Judging by Lindor’s comments the other day about MLB’s TV contract and overall financial picture, it appears that he has a strong desire to test free agency. Granted, we thought that about Betts. The difference is that the Dodgers offered stability on the field as well as off it. It was a perfect situation for Betts because the team had a track record of winning. The Mets are different in that they are the #2 team in their own market. This makes signing Lindor to an extension a bit trickier. Lindor and his agent have surely considered this. It would be a disaster if the Mets traded for one year of Lindor, only to watch him end up with you-know-who or a division opponent like the Phillies, Nats, or Braves. Lindor will be traded. Just don’t expect him to automatically re-up with that team as Betts did with the Dodgers,
@Cey Hey it’s not like the Dodgers didn’t pay Mookie. He got more new money than any other player in the history of MLB. And it wouldn’t be a disaster at all if the Mets win the 2021 WS and Lindor helps.
And if you don’t think they can win the 2021 WS, then they shouldn’t be looking to trade for Lindor, extension or otherwise.
I think the real thing with Mookie is LA met his price. Yes he impressed the FO and that is why they did, and the team situation made it easier for him I’m sure to jump in… but in Boston he had said without saying it he wanted to get btwn 300 and 400M after Trout re-upped last year
If Boston had offered LA deal to Mookie, he’s still in Boston IMHO. Someone wants to put Lindor in Trout territory for new money.. at that point what are you gaining from waiting for FA vs risking with injury?
Maybe I’m wrong and he wants that top figure. But if Clev offered 300-350M, I think Lindor signs tomorrow
I think you’re right that Lindor signs with Cleveland if they offer him a $300M+ extension. But, what the Mets or any other team that trades for him now gets is an extra year of his prime vs an extra year of paying him on the downside of his career if you wait a year. Plus, if you wait a year, that gives 28 other teams a chance to swoop in and get him.
@PitcherMeRolling they also run the risk of a JT Realmuto situation happening. Is that what you want?
“Plus, if you wait a year, that gives 28 other teams a chance to swoop in and get him.”
They most likely get that chance anyway. And if you’re already planning to pay him market value on top of trading for him, I’m not sure why the other teams having a chance to sign him would be such a problem.
Again, MY POST WAS CLEARLY BASED ON BEING ABLE TO EXTEND LINDOR PRIOR TO TRADING FOR HIM. I EVEN INCLUDED A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF SUCH A SCENARIO.
Once you understand this part, you’ll understand that your 2nd point is rendered moot.
Please, please, please don’t do the thing where you respond to what you think I’m saying. Read what I actually say and respond to what those words mean. M’kay?
Well we’ve already established that I don’t think a Lindor extension is all that bloody likely. I also don’t see the value in extending him unless it’s for enough of a discount to offset the surplus value you traded to acquire him in the first place.
What you think about the likelihood of an extension doesn’t have anything to do with what I said. If you want to talk about something else, make a separate post.
I see something more along the lines of Gimenez, Davis and a prospect being the cost for Lindor. No way the Indians get McNeil. With 4 years of control he has far too much value.
Giménez , Dom Smith & Davis for Lindor
How are those 3 players better than anything the Yankees can offer
What would the Yankees offer mlbnyyfan? The Indians don’t need Andujar the DH. If the Yankees put up Frazier and a lesser piece or 2 they could do it.
Proceeds to say he will offer Frazier after making this comment lol.
I think the Mets have more appropriate players to offer than the Yankees, like Gininez and Smith.
IF the Yankees engage, and I think the Mets truly have the better shot, I foresee some combination of Voit, Schmidt, Frazier and…….
Indians need 1B as well as OF help. Giminez can perform at the MLB level so that’s highly advantageous for Cleveland.
If the fourth is Peraza, that will help. Nonetheless, I believe the Mets have better pieces at the comparable positions, depending on what the Indians are looking for.
Yankees get Seager? Baez? Simmons? Possibly even Arenado (another platinum glove too) then trade Urshela as well? I’m not saying these will happen, just Brainstorming.
I don’t know if the Indians are more interested in pitching or hitting prospects. But, if they want pitching and the Mets and Yankees are both involved, the Mets have little chance. BVW left the cupboard pretty bare in terms of pitching prospects.
Except it would take a jackhammer to pry Dom Smith away from the Mets at this point in time.
I would offer Frazier but they got rid of him originally remember why take him back.
The Indians had to give him up to get Miller. They didn’t want to. They are currently seriously in need of OFs who are quality hitters and are cheap with lots of control. Enter Clint Frazier.
Mlbnyyfan: I say Indians consider trading for Voit, Schmidt/Garcia, Oswaldo Peraza, Frazier. They may need to add money, a lower prospect or something else, but if they truly want him, it’ll take something like that. Is it worth it? No. But part of the agreement will contain an opportunity to negotiate an extension. Then is it worth it? I’ll tell you in five years, who the hell knows.
Agreed. He OPS’d .993 last season. He has always been a great hitter (per minor league stats) and he has an above average glove at first base. The Mets shoehorned him into learning the OF, but his best value is at 1B bc of his glove.
Too much. Not including Dom Smith for a possible rental.
Wait..you mean someone posted a comment that had nothing to do with the Yankees?
*GASP*
Good thing mlbnyyfan was there to fix that.
Hill is used to a meddling owner who makes all of the real decisions. He’s a perfect fit here.
Okay Frazier it is. Who else not named Torres or Dominguez. Let’s make it happen
You will have to ask Indians management mlbnyyfan. Frazier will definitely get their attention. The rest would be resolved with haggling. The Indians will probably ask for Torres or Dominguez. The Yankees would counter with Andujar or some prospect they don’t mind losing like Florial but the Indians won’t settle for. After negotiations we will all be surprised.
Given that Frazier is now arbitration eligible, he might be too ‘expensive’ for Cleveland to trade for. Cleveland would probably ask for Garcia and another position player or two from NY.
I’ll play mlbnyyfan. How about Frazier, Gil, and Florial for Lindor. If you want a bigger deal would could expand it to Lindor and Perez(you need a good defensive C) for Frazier, Andujar, Gil, and Florial. What say you?
I don’t see the Indians trading Roberto Perez. I also don’t see a place for Andujar to play on the Indians. Andujar can not play infield or outfield. He is a DH and the Indians have Framil Reyes.
Padres need pitching. The payroll isn’t unlimited so they have to get creative. Picking up a starter like Marco Gonzalez from Seattle gives us a 1/2/3 type starter to matchup better with anyone including la at a very reasonable contract.
Kikuchi lhp, Gonzalez lhp, haggerty utility
For
Myers of, luchessi lhp, patino rhp, campusano cc
Fair deal?
So your payroll is unlimited but the deal revolves around you getting rid of the worst contract on your payroll? Lol
No one wants Myers. No one wants to pay him 20M while they are not competitive. You are stuck with him unless SD pays half his salary or more per year. At which point, he’s probably worth praying 2020 wasnt a fluke and his value rises more next year.
But no one. No one. Wants Myers for 20M/yr right now when a starting infielder costs 5M-10M max in this market
Wait. You also want Seattle to take the soon to be felon facing 10 years??? Like he’s a valuable trade piece at the moment. He’s closer to the restricted list than he is to be part of a trade package. Wow
I’ll say it again Padre fans. Your 40man scraps+problems aren’t worth anything close to what you think they are
Laughing@You, you have a perfect name because I’m laughing at your comment right now. It’s so stupid. You say that the trade idea Nico480 has is full of 40-man scraps, even though he includes both Campusano and Patino in the trade. Now, Campusano probably has very little trade value right now because of the legal situation, but athletes usually just get a slap on the wrist punishment for crimes like this, so I think he will be fine. But to say that Luis Patino, one of the top 30 prospects in baseball, is worth nothing? That is insanely stupid.
Ooo I’m crying.
So it’s 3 pieces of crap they don’t want and have no spot for, yet don’t want to DFA and lost for nothing… and a decent prospect?
Bravo. Enjoy your fantasy. That’s all this trade is
Myers just had an exceptional season. Just outside the top 10 in MLB overall. ..288/.353/.606/.959 with 15 HR in 55 games. $20 million for that level of performance is below market value. He will have the 44th highest salary in baseball in 2021 NOT including any raises for free agents or arbitration eligible players.
Yesterday on MLB Network they talked about the 6 teams that have already contacted the Padres about Myers. Obviously teams are interested.
The Padres have no need for Gonzales when they had 3 pitchers better than he was this season and they certainly would not take on the $28 million guaranteed for Kikuchi and his 5.39 career ERA as a Mariner.
As to Campusano, the charges have already been dropped to a misdemeanor by Richmond County DA Natalie Paine and that was before she was defeated in the election. He has not even been to court yet. The NEW DA Jared Williams’ stance during his campaign has been in favor decriminalizing marijuana so Campusano will probably end up paying a fine and doing community service. Maybe you ought to let that play out before making hateful remarks. As to his talent, he is a top 50 prospect who came up to the majors at age 21 and showed he belongs both with the bat and the glove.
Myers been mediocre for most of the last… 4 years? is paid to be a top 20 player, and put up a respectable line in a year that didn’t allow for one of his patented ugly, cold AF streaks
Congrats! He didn’t suck over 1/3 if a full season! That doesn’t mean people want to pay him 40M and take a prospect they don’t know if they will he in ST or behind bars
It’s not hate. It’s fact. NO ONE in Mlb will trade for a guy who was just arrested on a felony before everything is cleared up. They’re not taking him hoping the politics works out in their favor. That’s not how millionaires operate
@Laughing@you-perhaps you should actually read and consider a comment before trying to tear the commenter apart?
First off, Nico480 said that the Padres payroll ISN’T unlimited. Which makes your whole first sentence…a mistake? At the very least.
Secondly, Kikuchi is due to be paid $16.5 million next year. So $3.5 million less than Myers. Of course his lifetime ERA is 5.39. Which makes him not only vastly overpaid but also worthless. Also Will Myers batting line of .288/.353/.959 would have made him far and away the best hitter on the Mariners last year. Their best? Kyle Lewis .262/.364/.801. So yes, the trade is not crazy for the Mariners, it is crazy for the Padres.
@Nico480-The Padres deepest area is their starting pitching. OTOH the only OF replacements they have are Greg Allen and Jorge Ona. Neither one is anything close to starting quality at this time. The Padres will not be trading their 3rd best hitter from last year when they have nobody to replace him with. There is also zero chance that they will sell low on their catcher of the future and give up a top 30 pitching prospect for Marco Gonzales whose career numbers are just slightly better than Lucchesi.
Yeah you all are right
The padres have been trying to dump Myers for 3 years but teams are lining up now that there’s a pandemic and everyone is crying poor!
Yeah. That seems logical
Not fair from the Padres standpoint. The Padres starters had the 3rd best ERA in baseball last season. Lamet, Clevinger, and Davies all had a better ERA than Gonzales, Paddack slots in at #4, and they have Patino, Morejon, Weathers, and Gore that will be competing for the #5 spot in the rotation. They have no real need for starting pitching and they certainly are not giving up Patino and Campusano for anyone.
What the Padres need is bullpen help. Rosenthal and Yates are free agents. Perdomo had TJ surgery. Strahm had knee surgery. Stammen will be 37. They might trade some lower level prospects and players including Mejia for relief help.
I like the value on both sides of this deal, but Seattle just isn’t trading Gonzales. As a Mariner fan I am sure of this. But I’m also intrigued by Patino and Campusano. And Myers is a fun player to watch even though the contract is above water (unless he repeats 2020).
Cleveland is always crying poor. Steve Cohen is ultra rich. The win-win solution would be for the Mets to trade Gimenez and a whole bunch of “cash considerations” for Lindor.
Before you Met fans get on the Lindor bandwagon, think about where the Mets should allocate money first: Extend Conforto, maybe Thor. Sign Springer, sign Realmuto or McCann, sign 2 pitchers. If they then have $ in budget to trade for & then sign Lindor, then do it but not before.
Mets would be fine to get Lindor after they fix SP. Or before if you end up fixing the SP. they don’t really need springer and realmuto. Teams have made it far with good defense bad hitting catchers.
Mets have a good foundation but they need a catcher. Just look at my team if you want to see the result of a bad catcher. It should be a priority for both our teams. Catcher and SP. then frolick in trades and FA for unnecessary stars.
Great post. The Mets should aim to be the East Coast Dodgers. Spend $ to fill holes, but invest in scouting and elsewhere so you have more collateral to trade bc signing FAs is a loser’s mentality bc there is rarely if ever any “value” in those deals. LAD has a ton of $$, but if you look at most of their players….cheap and on their first contracts. The Mets need to do the same thing. Lindor “could” be part of that, but they have much larger needs to fill first. 2-3 SP, nearly an entire bullpen, and most in need C with CF a close second bc they need to strengthen their defense up the middle.
Myers just had an exceptional season. Just outside the top 10 in MLB overall. ..288/.353/.606/.959 with 15 HR in 55 games. $20 million for that level of performance is below market value. He will have the 44th highest salary in baseball in 2021 NOT including any raises for free agents or arbitration eligible players.
Yesterday on MLB Network they talked about the 6 teams that have already contacted the Padres about Myers. Obviously teams are interested.
The Padres have no need for Gonzales when they had 3 pitchers better than he was this season and they certainly would not take on the $28 million guaranteed for Kikuchi and his 5.39 career ERA as a Mariner.
As to Campusano, the charges have already been dropped to a misdemeanor by Richmond County DA Natalie Paine and that was before she was defeated in the election. He has not even been to court yet. The NEW DA Jared Williams’ stance during his campaign has been in favor decriminalizing marijuana so Campusano will probably end up paying a fine and doing community service. Maybe you ought to let that play out before making hateful remarks. As to his talent, he is a top 50 prospect who came up to the majors at age 21 and showed he belongs both with the bat and the glove.
Keep telling yourself buddy. Only people who think Myers has value are Padre fans and the tv network trying to keep Padre fans watching
They’re not lying! Why would they lie to viewers!?!?
@-Laughing@you
What was suggested was essentially a bad contract swap: Myers for Kikuchi. $20 million for $16.5 million next year. Now I can see you do not believe in Myers resurgence, so how about we use lifetime numbers?
Myers lifetime OPS? .776. That is better than everyone on the Mariners except Haniger, Lewis and Murphy. So his LIFETIME numbers would make him the fourth best offensive performer on that team.
Kikuchi’s lifetime ERA? 5.39. Among Padres starting pitchers that puts him after Clevinger, Lamet, Davies, Paddack, Lucchesi and Patino. It is 0.01 better than Morejon, who is on a serious upswing.
So, a #7 starter(at best) for a guy who would be a team’s 4th best hitter for very similar money. Who is getting a better deal there?
Is that you Koamalu? Another new account?
So now you’re trying to pretend that Myers is going to meet or exceed his career numbers in a hitters nightmare that is Seattle?
It’s now how all Padre fans ignore they shoved the fences in 10+ feet almost everywhere, then shout their hitters are now better than their career numbers
Myers is a 5M player in 2020 market. NO ONE WANTS HIM.
A pitcher is WAY more valuable than a player who’s paid 4X his market rate. Seattle has had 1 full season to assess Kikuchi. They phone it in to be stuck with Myers? Lol ok
Myers just had an exceptional season. Just outside the top 10 in MLB overall. ..288/.353/.606/.959 with 15 HR in 55 games. $20 million for that level of performance is below market value. He will have the 44th highest salary in baseball in 2021 NOT including any raises for free agents or arbitration eligible players.
Yesterday on MLB Network they talked about the 6 teams that have already contacted the Padres about Myers. Obviously teams are interested.
The Padres have no need for Gonzales when they had 3 pitchers better than he was this season and they certainly would not take on the $28 million guaranteed for Kikuchi and his 5.39 career ERA as a Mariner.
As to Campusano, the charges have already been dropped to a misdemeanor by Richmond County DA Natalie Paine and that was before she was defeated in the election. He has not even been to court yet. The NEW DA Jared Williams’ stance during his campaign has been in favor decriminalizing marijuana so Campusano will probably end up paying a fine and doing community service. Maybe you ought to let that play out before making hateful remarks. As to his talent, he is a top 50 prospect who came up to the majors at age 21 and showed he belongs both with the bat and the glove.
So here’s something funny. In 2019, in Myer’s June-July(game 56 to 82, the games we just missed)
He hit 186/305/300
To that point. He had a 700 OPS. And a 330 BABIP.
How about how he ended 2018? Right at 55 season games to end of the year? 228/305/386
Dude he’s just an overpaid streaky hitter. He’s a bad Matt Kemp. No one is going to believe he can magically put it together for 162 because he was good for 60. He’s done this before and then fell off a cliff. Just stop. Id bet money I can find a streak like this every year he’s been in SD that was a full year. It’s laughable
@Laughing@You don’t bother. Once Koamalu has declared himself right, all bets are off.
Will Myers is different now. Those stats were from 2019 with Andy Green as the manager. All of the Padres hated Andy Green – notice how practically the entire team improved this year. Myers in particular hated Green – he was caught on tape in 2018 cussing him out. Without Andy Green, Will Myers is finally able to succeed. Now, I’m not saying Myers is going to continue at a .959 ops pace, but I am saying that he will continue to be a solid hitter.
Blaming Green is typical Padre fandom especially on 60 game season
@dan55 sorry man but think this is pure delusion. Again laughing is right teams aren’t stupid and padres would have to pay down dollars to get him off the books. Myers isn’t a very good player and his career numbers are far more believable than a short season in which they only played 7 teams.
@dan55 so basically you are saying that Wil Myers is a headcase
Cmon. Now you’re pretending Andy Green is the reason, even though Myers had some of his best years while also some of his worst under green?
Blame the player. Your alternate reality is a joke
This was his first above 800 OPS season since he was a *rookie*. He’s just a Consistent player over 162. Woo hoo. You missed his cold streak I found he has every year after 60 games.
Bingo
Myers also hit .100 in postseason against Dodgers
Lmao the man of 247 usernames Koamalu himself still on his Myers kick. I got news for you pal. The other GM’s are going to consider his entire body of work. Not just what he did during the pandemic-snortened 2020 season. If they were going to base a player’s value solely on what he did in 2020, then Lindor wouldn’t fetch anything in trade, let alone the “incredibly good” return you affirmatively stated he’d fetch.
MLB Network never said anything of the kind, just like how San Diego sports radio never said James Shields to the White Sox for Tim Anderson was a done deal and how Eric Hosmer never said “Am I earning my paycheck now chief?” to Andy Green after hitting that home run during the Mexico series.
Oh and how does a player “show he belongs with the bat” in just 4 plate appearances?
Finally, nice triple post.
Unfortunately for Cleveland they are impacted by the pandemic and thus need to shred dollars, which puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to a trade like Lindor when teams know they need to move him as their first priority. It’s also going to be difficult for them if Lindor isn’t open to discuss a contract with the acquiring team and wants to test the market. With that said, a deal in which the Mets offer Giminez and McNeil would be a win for Cleveland- and they could always move McNeil if he doesn’t suit them, though I’d find that hard to imagine considering his production, versatility and cost efficient salary. Plenty of teams out there that would make a move for him.
Why would it be difficult for them if Lindor isn’t open to discussing a contract? Aren’t they trying to win now? Does trading for Lindor not help them win now, extension or otherwise?
Historically Indians middle infielders going to the Mets doesn’t work out well for the Mets
Good point.
As great a player as Lindor is, not sure the Mets have a ‘need’ for him at this time. A deal involving Gimenez is ok, but what do the Mets add? Smith? Nimmo? Nido? Move Davis and slide McNeil to 3b or sign another 3b? Rosario may make more sense financially for the Mets.
Rosario, Smith, Matz, Nido, Familia, Gsellman as pieces and cash or international money? If the Indians add an arm and a true CF (payroll reductions) from their side, it might be close.
I think other teams may have more to offer than my Mets.
I think you’re probably right. And I also think the Mets have more pressing needs than going after Lindor. 2 starters, a catcher, a bullpen piece or 2, maybe a center fielder. They also need to know if there will be a DH in the NL in 2021. Lots of holes to be filled. SS isn’t really a priority
I agree with you Bill, The mets have depth at SS even through the minors with Rosario, Gimenez, and Mauricio. While Lindor is an improvement on those but having him for one year will not make a huge difference to the team with all the other places that really need the attention.
As i side note, I wonder if the mets are considering putting Rosario in CF still.
Mets are not one star player away, particularly in what may be another shortened season where a high-impact player can be somewhat marginalized. I’m a Phillies fan – but if I’m managing the Mets I don’t trade a true asset from the big league roster (i.e. McNeil) for one-year of Lindor. McNeil is pre-Arb, McNeil – is pre-arb. Non-starter, even for Lindor.
I would love to see this happen it would be a real good move for Cohen’s first ever move to trade for Lindor and then give him a great deal. Would make Mets fans so happy and would really go a long way in showing this is the new Mets.
I see some valid points regarding any Mets interest in Lindor. I understand they may have greater needs but they do have a new owner who wants to make a splash. That does matter in New York so I wouldn’t rule it out.
Sure the Mets have other holes but the Mets had plenty of financial flexibility before the ownership change. Now with Cohen if he wants to spend to fill other holes it really is not an obstacle. So signing Lindor doesn’t stop them from filling “other” pressing needs. That is the leftover thinking from the Wilpon era.
I dont think anyone has problems with signing Lindor if/when he is a free agent, but giving up 2 or more pre-arbitration starters with multiple years of cost control. Especially when those 2 have shown success at the MLB and NY in McNeil and Gimenez. If those 2 are not involved then it would probably be more well received, but trading away what 8-9 years of potential above average play and creating another hole to fill for a slight upgrade for 1 yr is a little too much.
This would be the equivalent of the yankees trading Urshela and Torres for Lindor. This would be considered nuts by almost anyone in baseball.
Mets fans never hesitate to make themselves look stupid.
Sure I’d love to have Lindor, but the package can’t include McNeil or Smith… I’ll keep it as unbiased as possible:
Lindor last two years: ops 854, 750 / ops+ 118, 102
McNeil last two years: 916, 836 / 143, 131
Smith 881, 993 / 132, 169
Of course it can work with other pieces like gimenez, davis, Rosario, nimmo and minor leaguers like baty, vientos… but Indians may want more, though they have little bargaining power when teams know they need to shed money
The last three years of McNeil + Davis
fWAR = 10.7 for McNeil and Davis (2.2 fWAR/Yr)
fWAR = 13.7 for Lindor (4.4 fWAR/Yr)
Lindor is worth both these guys, combined.. The Indians “bargaining” position is really simple.. if you don’t pay the asking price, there is no deal.. They’ve been that way for nearly 14 years now..and will continue.
While I’m not saying that’s this deal is the end all for the Indians want.. the simple check of an encompassing stat like WAR shows.. the evaluation of a mets fan is biased.. biased, indeed…
@gson McNeil and Davis combined for 338 PAs in 2018 (about half the playing time of one full-time player). Did you maybe choose this time period because 2018 is the last really good season Lindor had?
I don’t know what the Indians want. It’s probably more than I’d like it to be. But, let’s not pretend that cherry-picked statistics mean much.
Exactly… go to lindor’s best year and the year before McNeil and smith blossomed… talk about bias lol… look at war last two years… three years ago is actually ancient history in this context
@pitch.. I chose that time period because that’s ALL there was for Lindor, McNeil & Davis to be on the field at the same time with similar/same circumstances….
SSS isn’t the intent.. don’t go there..
If more time is included.. the balance of the deal becomes overwhelming in favor of Lindor…
@gson All there was for those 3? What?!?! McNeil and, to a lesser extent, Davis became full-time players in 2019. Why wouldn’t you use the last 2 years? Wait, you don’t need to answer that, I already know.
No joke? If more time is included it becomes more in favor of Lindor? It’s because that exacerbates one of the problems with comparing the last 3 years, as opposed to the last 2.
Maybe the people you talk baseball with don’t know better, but I do.
You neither know who I speak with or what I know.. making your claim to be erroneous before starting.. You would like to cherry pick a certain set of statistics to support your poor (very poor) argument..
Good for you..I’m sure the MENSA candidates you speak with agree with EVERY WORD YOU SAY..
Get a life..
You don’t know what ‘maybe’ means? That sucks.
It’s not cherry-picking stats to use the years that allow an apples to apples comparison. Are you one of those “logic is a school of thought” types?
@gson
Even by your logic, 1 year of Lindor=13.7 fWAR whereas 4 years of control for each of McNeil and Davis=42.8 fWAR.
@hudson6 Careful with that logic business, some folks may be allergic.
@Hudson.. Do more math..
start with raw data..
you’ve obscured the data that was presented..
WAR is not the only measure of a player’s value and greatly overrated defense, but that’s a tiresome debate so ignore that… but yes, the two-year window makes more sense because it’s as close to full years they all played… McNeil and Smith barely played in 2018… the more relevant point is they’re players on the rise and Lindor may have already had his peak years… if he maintains current value, he’s still very good.. but not worth either of them in w package for a one year $20M rental
@ma.. Lindor is a top ten player in all of MLB.. he has consistently shown he can perform and has a strong history of playing a lot of games (not all games).. and yes, this does show he is equal to or better than this pair of Met’s players…
Leadership by this player..is off the charts great, btw..
That’s great… and smith’s clubhouse presence and leadership is equally admired, and all I know of McNeil is he’s great in the clubhouse… but last two years for Lindor Show a downward trend… of course I’d bet on him to bounce back, but I think smith is on the rise and will be a star… I think McNeil is just a solid balanced hitter that every lineup needs… so no, based on numbers and trends, I wouldn’t trade either for one year of Lindor at $20M (if he had theee years of control left that’s a different story, but he wouldn’t be available then)… and I’m willing to bet most would agree
@Ma, Lindor is 26 so he’s just entering his prime years. So far in his 6 yr career, which includes 2020’s numbers which hold little value to me for any player, he has slashed 285/346/488/833 with 138 HR while winning 2 GG and 2 SS awards. You’re not getting him without some regret. Trying to leverage a deal with 2020 stats will get you nowhere. To say he’s on some kind of downward trend while McNeil who is 28 won’t be is nothing short of stupid fanboy gibberish. Smith has performed better the last 2 seasons, but they come with a SSS warning. Oddly enough, in 2019 and 2020 Smith has 177 AB in each season. Can he maintain that level of performance over a 600+ AB season? Yeah……….maybe………I don’t know.
Omg don’t talk to me like I don’t know baseball… damn, people can be annoying… no, the last two years have not been his best years.. they have not even been as good as the two guys I mentioned for comparison being talked about… I said he’ll likely bounce back, but those two years are relevant and have lowered his value… especially when it’s a $21m one year rental… don’t give me the fanboy crap… ever think that the player you like may not have the trade value you thought he has? Of course they’d have to give value, but not two players who could easily end up outperforming him… prospects and some other promising players, sure… otherwise, wake up and face some reality … fan boy
The Mets don’t need Lindor, the Mets need pitching,3b,CFand C. I would give them Mauricio,Matz and a minor leaguer for Carrasco than hope Stroman takes the QO than they wouldn’t need Bauer. Trade Nimmo,Rosario, Ali Sanchez and a minor leaguer to the Cubs for Baez and W.Contreras
Sign Springer,Paxton,Hand, another RP and resign J.Wilson and Ramirez for the BP.
A rotation of deGrom,Carraso,Paxton,Stroman and Peterson
BP: Lugo,Hand,Diaz,Familia,Wilson E.Ramirez and another FA
OF: D.Smith,Springer and Conforto
INF: Alonso,McNeil,Gimenez,Baez and Contreras.
DH; Shared between Cano,JD Davis,D.Smith,Alonso and rotate them on the field.
@jvent First, 99% of what the Mets do this offseason is going to be after Stroman makes a decision about the QO.
Isn’t Nimmo basically Ian Happ? Who the Cubs have long been rumored to be shopping. So, why trade for another one of him? That’s aside from the offer being otherwise light.
You completely left out Syndergaard, who hopes to be ready by opening day 2021.
Why would anyone want Rosario as a starting point in a trade. He isn’t even the best ss on the Mets. Last year he was almost unplayable. Why would Cleveland trade Lindor for that
Even just McNeil for Lindor would be absurd. You can ask, but the Mets can laugh.
Giminez, Vientos, and Shervyen Newton is a reasonable offer. It would be better if the Wilpon Mets hadn’t thrown away one of Giminez’s controllable years. He should have beguan a normal 2020 in AA until he learned to hit.