For a second straight offseason, Rockies owner Dick Monfort set the stage for a tight-budgeted winter for his club. “There will be nothing normal about this offseason as the industry faces a new economic reality, and each club will have to adjust,” Monfort wrote in a letter to season ticketholders at the end of October.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Nolan Arenado, 3B: $199MM through 2026 (Arenado can opt out of the contract after 2021)
- German Marquez, RHP: $36MM through 2023 (includes buyout of 2024 club option)
- Charlie Blackmon, OF: $21MM through 2021 (contract contains player options for 2022-23)
- Trevor Story, SS: $17.5MM through 2021
- Scott Oberg, RHP: $11MM through 2022
- Ian Desmond, INF/OF: $10MM through 2021 (includes buyout of 2022 club option)
Arbitration-Eligible Players
This year’s arbitration projections are more volatile than ever, given the unprecedented revenue losses felt by clubs and the shortened 2020 schedule. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, who developed our arbitration projection model, used three different methods to calculate different projection numbers. You can see the full projections and an explanation of each if you click here, but for the purposes of our Outlook series, we’ll be using Matt’s 37-percent method — extrapolating what degree of raise a player’s 2020 rate of play would have earned him in a full 162-game slate and then awarding him 37 percent of that raise.
- Daniel Bard — $1.7MM
- David Dahl – $2.6MM
- Elias Diaz — $850K
- Jairo Diaz – $800K
- Carlos Estevez – $1.5MM
- Kyle Freeland – $3.9MM
- Mychal Givens – $3.6MM
- Chi Chi Gonzalez – $1.2MM
- Jon Gray – $5.9MM
- Ryan McMahon – $1.7MM
- Antonio Senzatela – $2.2MM
- Raimel Tapia – $1.5MM
- Tony Wolters – $2.0MM
- Non-tender candidates: E. Diaz, J. Diaz, Estevez, Gonzalez, McMahon, Wolters
Option Decisions
- Declined $15MM mutual option on RHP Wade Davis (paid $1MM buyout)
- Declined $12MM mutual option on 1B Daniel Murphy (paid $6MM buyout)
Free Agents
- Wade Davis, Daniel Murphy, Kevin Pillar, Chris Owings, Drew Butera, Matt Kemp, AJ Ramos
Despite a 91-loss season in 2019 and an offseason that lacked any meaningful additions to the roster, Monfort projected a 94-win campaign for his club in 2020. The Rox got out to a hot start, but their eventual .433 winning percentage was actually worse than their .438 mark in 2019. Now, they’re faced with similar payroll constraints and the continued awkward saga with a franchise icon, Nolan Arenado.
Monfort opened the 2019-20 offseason by declaring a lack of payroll flexibility, and while he stopped a bit short of being so on the nose, his email to fans and a quick look at Colorado’s payroll ledger show that they’re likely in a similar boat. The Rox were set to open the 2020 season with a roughly $146MM payroll prior to prorating salaries, and despite the fact that the contracts of Daniel Murphy, Wade Davis, Jake McGee and Bryan Shaw are off the books, they’re not far from that range.
The Rox owe a combined $93MM to Arenado, Trevor Story, German Marquez, Ian Desmond and Scott Oberg. Even if they non-tender all of the candidates listed above, that figure could rise into the $115MM range. Add in pre-arbitration players and the $7MM worth of option buyouts they paid after the World Series, and the Rockies don’t seem like a club that is teeming with surplus cash. They may not quite be to 2020 levels of payroll, but that was already a franchise-record outlay. We can’t assume they’re comfortable returning to that level, so it appears spending will be measured.
It’s that financial outlook, paired with Arenado’s persistent frustration, that have led to overwhelming trade speculation. Onlookers ought to be plenty familiar with the public nature of Arenado’s dissatisfaction at this point; the five-time All-Star flatly said he felt “disrespected” by the organization last winter. Arenado was reportedly was frustrated with the team’s lack of offseason activity, despite a promise at the time of his extension to make consistent efforts to field a winning club. Arenado told Denver 7’s Troy Renck last February that general manager Jeff Bridich, in particular, is “disrespectful.”
Given another poor showing and playoff miss from the Rox, many fans and pundits alike expect an Arenado trade to be a focal point of the club’s offseason. It is indeed reasonable to expect that the club will explore the market, but the path to an actual trade is anything but straightforward. Arenado has six years and $199MM remaining on his contract — an enormous sum that is sure to cause owners around the game to balk at a time when most clubs are frantically cutting costs.
Looming beyond the overall commitment is the fact that Arenado can opt out of the contract next winter. In many ways, that creates a lose-lose situation for interested parties. Arenado could play at his customary superstar level, enjoy another lofty finish in MVP voting and bolt for free agency. Alternatively, if he struggles or sustains a major injury, any acquiring club would be left with the remaining five years and $164MM on the contract. When the best-case scenario is one year of elite play and the worst-case scenario is six years of a $33MM+ salary for a player whose production has taken a step back, how much surplus value is there for the Rockies to peddle?
The elephant in the room is that Arenado simply didn’t have a great 2020 season. He did still secure his eighth Gold Glove in his eighth Major League season, but Arenado logged a rather bleak .253/.303/.434 slash in this year’s 201 plate appearances — output that is miles from the .295/.351/.546 line he posted in his career prior to 2020. Arenado entered the year with a 120 wRC+ — production 20 percent better than a league-average hitter when weighted for home park and league — and turned in a mark of 76 in 2020 (24 percent worse than a league-average bat).
One could argue that there’s some bad luck at play, and that could be partly true. However, Arenado’s 87.3 mph average exit velocity, 33.7 percent hard-hit rate and 5.4 percent barrel rate were all far and away the lowest of his career. Paired with his enormous salary and the opt-out downside, some clubs may not feel Arenado has much positive trade value. That’s an outlandish-looking comment at first blush, but at the very least, the Rockies won’t be getting a king’s ransom in a trade. They’ll quite possibly have trouble convincing another team to pay the full freight of the contract.
If the Rox are looking to offload salary while adding some controllable young talent, shortstop Trevor Story is the easier piece to market, as MLBTR’s Jeff Todd recently explored. We’ll avoid rehashing his argument at too great a length, but suffice it to say that a 28-year-old career .277/.343/.535 hitter (114 wRC+) with high-end defense of his own is a pretty desirable player under any circumstance — but certainly when he is playing on an eminently more reasonable one-year, $17.5MM pact. Any of the Phillies, Reds or Angels would stand out as a clear fit, and other contenders like the Yankees, Twins or Blue Jays could make sense if they shuffle some pieces around. Top prospect Brendan Rodgers, meanwhile, is on hand for the Rox as a potential heir to Story’s spot.
Of course, while the focus of this outlook thus far has been on the possibility of dealing away a star infielder, that would be a dramatic 180-degree turn from how this organization has operated. Monfort has been almost fatally optimistic about the players the Rockies have in house. In addition to last year’s 94-win proclamation, the Rockies functioned as buyers at this year’s trade deadline, dealing from an already thin farm to acquire Kevin Pillar and Mychal Givens. Monfort may yet hold out the belief that this core group can put together a legitimate World Series run.
Should that prove to be the case, it’s not clear just how the Rockies can piece together the requisite upgrades to supplement a flawed core. Even if the Rockies are able to clear some payroll space, the work needed is considerable.
Colorado starters ranked 20th in the Majors in both ERA (4.83) and FIP (4.88), and their bullpen was only spared from being the game’s worst because of a historically bad group in Philadelphia. Rox relievers logged a combined 6.77 ERA and 5.56 FIP this past season, and Oberg, their best reliever, is a question mark for the 2021 season after undergoing thoracic outlet surgery in September. (He did not pitch in 2020.) Yency Almonte and Daniel Bard were the only two Rockies relievers with 10-plus innings pitched and an ERA south of 5.00.
If there’s a silver lining for the Rockies in all of this, it’s that the market for relievers looks decidedly harsh for players. Brad Hand already went unclaimed on waivers at a rate of one year and $10MM, and we’ve seen several seemingly reasonable club options bought out. The Rox could have their share of affordable bullpen pieces to pursue — although they likely need to add several arms to pair with Bard, Givens, Oberg and perhaps Almonte to make this a serviceable unit. Waiting out the market and striking gold on some Bard-esque minor league pacts feels like a necessity.
In the rotation, the Rockies have several arms who have had success at various points, but only German Marquez has been particularly consistent. The trio of Gray, Kyle Freeland and Antonio Senzatela have all had intermittent success but also endured brutal stretches. With little to no help on the horizon in the farm, the Rockies would likely need to add a veteran option if they plan to continue in win-now mode. It’s difficult to convince free agents to come pitch at Coors Field, though, which will impact their pursuits both in the ’pen and rotation. Then again, if money is as tight as it appears, they’d likely be shopping in the lower tiers of the market anyhow, or perhaps trying to acquire some non-tender candidates in buy-low trades prior to the tender deadline.
On the position-player side of the roster, the Rockies got no production whatsoever out of their catcher position in 2020, but that’s become par for the course as the club has steadfastly remained committed to light-hitting Tony Wolters. He’s a non-tender candidate again, though, and a solid defender with more ability at the dish (e.g. Jason Castro) might not cost that much more than Wolters’ projected arbitration price.
First base reps could be offered to any of Ryan McMahon (if he is tendered a contract), Josh Fuentes or prospect Colton Welker, and the free-agent market should have some affordable names (e.g. Carlos Santana, Mitch Moreland, C.J. Cron, Justin Smoak). Some outfield support behind David Dahl, who struggled in 2020 before undergoing shoulder surgery, would make sense as well; a Pillar reunion or a similar pursuit doesn’t seem far-fetched.
Frankly, however, the Rockies seem as though they’d be better served to take a step back. Marquez would instantly become one of the prizes of the trade market were he made available, and Story could return some young talent as well. Other Rox arms — Freeland and Givens among them — would hold ample appeal themselves. That has not been how this franchise operates, and while it’s commendable to see a team continue to push for competitive teams year-in and year-out, the process becomes more questionable when financial limitations prevent the front office from making any meaningful changes to the current group’s composition.
Perhaps the club will try to thread the needle of a long-term talent acquisition while still fielding a hopeful contender in 2021. If Bridich is able to find an Arenado trade, for instance, the Rox could reallocate some of those dollars to short-term deals for players to fill needs.
It’s still hard to envision this group contending with the World Champion Dodgers or upstart Padres in 2021, however. The Giants also continue to make strides, while the D-backs retain their own talented core in need of a rebound. The NL West looks like an increasingly tough division, and the Rockies’ avenues to assemble a competitive unit are limited if Monfort again opts not to spend this winter.
Rangers29
Offseason Outlook: Bleak.
Rbase
Even that is too positive i’m afraid…
Arnold Ziffel
Mediocrity would look good to this disaster.
They have a great manager, 2 big time stars, for the first time a good starting rotation, a great story in Bard and not much else. Poor ownership and upper management spell disaster.
statman
Good luck with that Arenado contract as he enters the wrong side of 30 and inflated home stats (.227 on the road with 1 HR on road in ‘20!!!)
Prospectnvstr
It’s very ironic how the same 2020 shortened season can be distorted into a springboard, falling off a cliff, rising star, breakout, not enough of a sample size, an extended spring training, etc. If player X has a career best 2020, is that real or memorex? If a guy has his worst season, same question? In a “normal” regular season, players have ups & downs. If a veteran player had a down year compared to his previous track record, it’s “more likely than not” an abnormality.
Troutgolfsinoctober
So does Freddie Freeman not deserve the MVP? Because he was good any other year. 2020 was no exception.
paddyo furnichuh
Arenado’s splits before this season were troubling. Maybe playing with reduced 02 levels affects recovery time when back on the road? It would be interesting data to study.
Desmond’s signing and Blackmon’s ill-advised extension seem to put Bridich on the hottest of GM hot seats.
Jean Matrac
Troutgolfsinoctober:
What has that got to do with predicting future performance? All the season awards winners were based equally on the shortened season.
Not to speak for prospector, but the point he made is that it’s interesting how guys that had good seasons in 2020, like Gausman, are having it devalued due to the short season. But on the other hand, the subpar seasons that some guys had are being used as evidence that they aren’t as good as what was thought.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Agree on the oxygen and the Desmond signing. That Ian signing is like the gift that….. well you know the rest lol
Troutgolfsinoctober
Not to speak for prospector but I’m speaking for prospector lol…..Well maybe I misunderstood. But as a guy from Baltimore I can tell you I highly doubt Kevin g is the real deal. He threw 97 here and that was about it. Very inconsistent pitcher but I would love SF to sign him to a nice contract he can be the next cueto(not that he’ll touch that money but the expectation and fall would be funny) So I have watched enough of him to make the judgement. I watched almost every orioles game for years my guy. Nice try. But if I didn’t comprehend it properly then sure dude. Let me apologize to you for asking another poster if Freddie deserved it or not. Lol he did! That’s all I was trying to say. Freddie always plays good. Kevin does not. That is not up for debate. I don’t care if you use an eye test or a numbers test. Bad comparison but I do understand and agree with your point on a serious note.
Troutgolfsinoctober
In other words it was a misunderstanding because I agree with him on most points. All I asked is did FF not deserve to win? And we all know he did. If a guy who is a meh player lit it up then I question the sample size. That is all. You gotta show me something if you haven’t been consistent before. If you been a good player like Freddie then it’s obviously no outlier. Maybe I wasn’t specific enough or I took it wrong. A guy like Kevin isn’t a great pitcher. He’s alright. But he’s not a guy I’d give a long term deal to. Hardly any Baltimore pitcher since mike mussina deserved a long term deal. They botch their pitchers development.
I’m not gonna say Nolan’s going to crap because he was hurt and didn’t mash at the dish like he normally does. He was the best defender last year arguably at any position despite being hurt. He’s Brooks Robinson type good in the field dude(not saying you think he isn’t).
Jean Matrac
So in other words you just don’t get what was posted. No one here is criticizing the Freeman MVP award. That’s just projecting incorrectly from the main point.
Troutgolfsinoctober
To a degree besides the fact that Kevin Gausman is not devalued due to short season. My point still stands on the shortened season. Just like you were still talking for someone else
Troutgolfsinoctober
I did misunderstand yes and I readily admitted that. But my point stands. Wish you could admit Kevin g was a garbage example. But hey I don’t expect the guy who thinks he is speaking for other ppl to admit anything. It’s not projecting. When I still took apart the “main point” . What I said about the shortened season isn’t wrong.
You said I was projecting but did nothing to take apart my argument when it came to what I felt about who deserved credit for the short season and who didn’t
Troutgolfsinoctober
Dude … was the point of the other guys post(apparently your burner account or your friend or something) about people having their shortened seasons devalued while others had it “over valued” ? Was it not about how in the short season Different ppl received different credit? Did I not show why that was? Unreal man! And I’m projecting? You brought nothing to the table to tell me why I was wrong on Gausman. Nothing! I’m done with you. Goodnight, tell your friend goodnight for me to since you speak for him too.
Jean Matrac
Dude, the point had nothing to do with how good or how bad Kevin Gausman is. He was just an example in how people will use the short season to justify their opinions, both ways, of particular ballplayers. Thanks for living up to the entire premise. Sorry you get so bent out of shape over a simple difference of opinion.
Troutgolfsinoctober
One of the reasons a good amount of Colorado hitters do poorly away has a lot to do with the size of the NL west parks. I would bet that if he went to the AL East he would hit almost as many home runs. The ball doesn’t spin the same in Colorado and hangs up so it’s easier to see as well. So hitters have to make a road adjustment to the spin rate.
I get you though. He’s only a 260 hitter outside of Coors. All I’m saying is he would adjust. It’s hard to adjust when you have to go back and forth all the time. We have seen SOME players adjust when they leave permanently is what I’m saying. Dj, Matt Holliday, Larry Walker was decent outside COL. The truly good talents will make it anywhere it’s just my opinion he’s a truly amazing talent. I’d put him at a 280 hitter with 30hr power If he left anywhere besides the AL East. He’s not a 300/40/110 guy Though(sometimes more). It all depends where he goes if he left. But IMO he would crush in NY.
I know you didn’t say that his D wouldn’t play but that’s a factor as well. It plays anywhere but I agree with you, you don’t get paid 30 plus per to play insane defense lol. Just feel like the home away thing is overdone, he’s not just another guy who plays in Colorado. He’s arguably the best All around 3rd baseman in the game, certainly the most consistent.
sf giants mania
The Rockies only played 20 games on the road this season and he probably played in like 15 of those. He’s still the best 3rd basemen in the MLB and this coming from a Giants fan.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I totally agree dude. I’ve always said he’s the most consistent 3rd basemen in the game.
Smelly_Cobb
I was going to say something similar haha
jramey1
Same as your Texans…. Rockies are like the Angels got a superstar but can’t win
Rangers29
I hate when people bring up this argument. Every. Single. Time. That I am critical of a team…. SOMEBODY… says, “The Rangers!”. Yes I know, we suck, we are terribly managed, and we suck, but that does not negate anything I say about another team. Every single time! That’s like heckling a 40 year old comedian about something he did in his twenties. It really confused me more than it pissed me off, I’m just surprised how often it happens.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I’m an orioles fan. So I feel you. I won’t even put the logo next to my name bro.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Comment of the year…. I was just gonna say they could have saved the rest of the words and just said something along those lines lol.
kgrieve
What about Aj Ramos?
Steve Adams
Agh, missed listing him among their outgoing free agents. Thanks. Updated.
SignWongTradeSolano
This is Story’s last year, I’d think it’s foolish if they don’t trade him this offseason. At the very least they’d get a return and offer him a contract next offseason.
angelsfan4life
Marquez is the guy I really want the Angels to try to get. Maybe take on Desmond to give up less to get him. Now the question is, do the Angels have the players to entice the Rockies to do the trade.
jkinser20
Marsh and some lower level pieces might get a Marquez/Desmond deal done
Rbase
I like this idea! Desmond is due ‘only’ $8 MM in 2021 , and he quietly had a pretty good season. He might be able to cover 2B and/or a corner outfield spot if Adell and Upton struggle again.
I do think Marsh may be too much though, given that Marquez is only a 3rd/4rd starter and is not on a cheap deal. What about 2B Jahmai Jones (7th), Jose Soriano (13th) + lottery ticket outside the top 30 prospects? I think that would work, given that the Rockies seem to want to cut payroll.
Steve Adams
Desmond opted out of the 2020 season and was below replacement level in 2019 per both Baseball-Reference and FanGraphs. I think you’re mistaking him for someone else in terms of 2020 stats.
It’s correct that he’s owed $8MM next year, although he’s also owed a $2MM buyout on a 2022 option, so it’s a total of $10MM still owed to him.
Rbase
Whoops, I read the 2019 season as 2020 on baseball reference. Well, he was pretty good in 2019 at least. $10MM is affordable IF the Angels believe he can be a good bat for them, wherever he plays.
paddyo furnichuh
Desmond was below average offensively in 2019(based on OPS+) while not offering much on the defensive side. If it were 2014, Desmond would be a desirable asset. In 2020, he’s a player who is overvalued by less successful FO’s such as the Rockies’.
By now, the Rockies FO may have learned and accepted that Desmond’s production has been mediocre at best.
KamKid
If they have a poor farm, would they be best to try jettisoning the Desmond money or just eat the money and maximize the returns in any trade? I’d happily take on $10m in Desmond when spreading that over the term you get on Marquez if it brings down the acquisition cost.
angelsfan4life
@Rbase have you ever watched him pitch? His career ERA is barely over 4 and that’s while pitching in Colorado. 3 years for 36 million is not an expensive contract. Marquez is probably the best pitcher, most fans don’t know about.
Ma4170
I was just going to say… Marquez outside of CO is a beast… I’ve been wanting the Mets to trade for him for three years
ChangedName
These weird contracts the Rockies signed with Arenado and Blackmon are so player friendly, they almost don’t mean anything from the team’s perspective unless the player completely tanks or gets hurt.
It’s like the opposite of NFL contracts if they were 100% in favor of the player instead of the team.
DarkSide830
how much do people want out of Blackman? i get tge options arent bad, but he keeps hitting up a storm and would be a perennial MVP finalist if he posted those numbers elsewhere.
ron swanson 2
But he wouldn’t post those numbers anymore but Coors Field. That’s the issue.
ron swanson 2
*Anywhere
hiflew
You have ABSOLUTELY no proof of this statement. It’s just a guess. No one knows because Blackmon has never played anywhere but Coors as a home park. It would be equally dumb to say that Clayton Kershaw would have been a bum if he played in Cincinnati or Texas instead of Dodger Stadium. But for some reason, no one ever does that to players that aren’t Rockies hitters.
its_happening
Uh oh, here we go….
Credit to Colorado for finishing 25th in OPS in 2020. They were 29th in 2019. 27th in 2018. A crowd please 23rd in 2017. 25th in 2016. Dead last in 2015. Do we need to continue?
Is it too much to ask the Rockies to place above 15th in road OPS? How about cracking the Top 10? They are measured against the rest of the league and they do not finish in the top tier. No excuses, they are Coors hitters period. Even the Yankees have had years in the Top 5 road OPS recently. I guess they know how to hit outside their home park.
There is your proof.
ron swanson 2
.347/.404/.583 career at home.
.263/.316/.431 career on the road.
WRC+ 132 at home.
WRC+ 99 on the road.
That enough proof for ya? Below average player when not at Coors.
Arnold Ziffel
Ever look at DJ Lemahieu ?
hiflew
Shut up and go away. I am not asking for you to respond to me. I know what you are all about and would prefer not to hear it again. This place is big enough for us to never speak again.
BTW, that was directed at WAJGH, not Ron or Arnold.
hiflew
Ron, did you ever consider the fact that the Rockies are the only team that doesn’t get their road stats inflated by games at Coors? Everyone knows Coors inflates their home stats, so conversely not having Coors in their roads should work the opposite way.
So not it is not any “proof” at all. Road stats is completely different for every player based on who their team plays. I is not a controlled stat, so it is not as meaningful as some people believe.
its_happening
Nice response. Nowhere near an adult response but nice response.
Now check home v. road stats with your pitchers.
If you don’t want a response you can leave. Your choice. Choices are nice.
DrDan75
The Rox have a great mix of young and older players but they never seen to have enough. They will always need plenty of pop to compensate for pitching woes at Coors Field, and the NL west is quietly becoming a really tough division.
Arenado is likely gone after this year anyway. Might be a good idea to shop him.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
What would they get for him? His career OPS is about 200 points higher at home. On the road, he’s just a little above average. The glove would translate anywhere, but the bat wouldn’t, yet he’d still get paid like a superstar. And that’s before factoring in his awful 2020. His trade value is very low at this point. If he opts out next year, they might be better served giving him a QO just for the draft pick. If he rebounds, but doesn’t opt out, then they can shop him. Either way, I don’t see them getting any sort of value for him this year unless they package him with someone else or take on someone else’s bad contract.
LordD99
Where’s he going? He’ll be owed $164M for his age 31-35 seasons, for an approximate $33M AAV. Teams will dealing with their second straight season of pandemic-fueled financial losses, and potentially looking at a strike or lockout in 2022. I’ll give him a pass in his 2020 season, but there will be questions about what he’ll do away from Colorado. He’s a fine player, but he’s not approaching his current salary on the open market in his 30s.
ASapsFables
The baseball gods have not been kind to Colorado. Since its existence, this franchise has been stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place, entrenched in MLB Purgatory somewhere between the Rockies and World Series Nirvana with no clear path for salvation on the horizon.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Part of the issue is where they play. That stadium lends itself heavily to the strategy of outslugging everyone. FA pitchers don’t want to go there because it will torpedo their numbers when they want their next deal. It’s an ok strategy for the regular season, but pitching wins in the playoffs.
ASapsFables
That’s what makes it so imperative the Rockies draft and develop amateur pitching talent that lends itself to the high altitude of Denver. Pitchers who can miss bats and keep the ball on the ground would work just fine in Coors Field.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
They could have offered Keuchel a big enough deal and didn’t. There are other groundball/soft contact specialists out there, too, that they don’t seem to covet. Most don’t have high K rates, but I wouldn’t mind more grounders if half my infield is Story and Arenado.
ASapsFables
As White Sox fans, how would you feel about them hooking up with the Rockies on a blockbuster trade for SP German Márquez and RF Charlie Blackmon. The White Sox two biggest needs this offseason are finding another top of the rotation pitcher to compliment Lucas Giolito and Dallas Keuchel along with a RF who would ideally hit left-handed.
Seems to me the White Sox could kill two birds with one stone in a deal with Colorado. Such a trade could also benefit the Rockies by unloading two of their richest contracts while adding some high upside young prospects, especially a power arm or two from a pretty deep White Sox system.
SeattleFan99
Why would you non tender Ryan McMahon, yes he has had his slumps but just a year ago he hit well. And is only 26, at least trade him he has value
vtadave
Maybe SOME value, but for a guy hitting .203/.290/.328 away from Coors since 2018, the return is probably minimal at best.
its_happening
Can’t hit and can’t field. Can’t see much value in that.
Bochys Retirement Fund
Here’s a thought! Owners need to stop acting like they know the game as well as the people they hire to do that to begin with.
DTDATL
Story is a guy that the Braves should be all over. Either him or Swanson can move to 3rd and then you get rid of the need for Ozuna.
BlueSkies_LA
Not normally a big believer in changes of scenery, but that’s what Arenado needs. Unfortunately for the Rockies his contract has no surplus value, probably more like net negative. Trading him would be a pure salary dump. I’m predicting they stuff a bunch of money in his pockets to get it done.
kylegocougs
All they really have to do is piss him off for this entire season and he’ll opt out then they can collect a decent draft pick. To me that seems like the best option, way better than paying half his salary to play somewhere else.
BlueSkies_LA
Could happen that way, but he could also have a poor season or be injured and not opt out. The risk is pretty huge for the Rockies either way.
Troutgolfsinoctober
You are right. I just get upset when ppl bash him for playing at Coors(not saying you) ….. it gets old and it’s an overblown narrative. Larry Walker almost didn’t get in the hall….. why? Because he played at Coors
He had a better slash than Griffey. Griff had 284/370/538 to Larry’s 313/400/565. Griffey gets 99 percent HOF vote and rightly so. However Larry barely got in. It’s ridiculous….. but but …. but Coors. No problem…. he had a higher ops plus than Griff as well 136-141 which obviously IS park adjusted. That alone PROVES there is such a negative stigma simply because he plays at Coors.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I hope you are right and he does go somewhere, he deserves to win and has passion for the game. If he went to the Yankees he would hit like a beast and shut everyone up. I just don’t see him going there and have a bad feeling if he leaves it’s going to be in Texas. Wouldn’t mind seeing him in dodger blue but that’s prob not realistic either. Hard to imagine he opts out though. He won’t come close to that dough again. Sucks watching the best 3rd basemen waste his time with those peons that own the team stinking up the good Colorado air. What a shame
Enrico Pallazzo
Best bet would be to sell the team and move them to some place more interesting and also someplace that isn’t essential on the surface of the moon.. Montreal or Portland (if it ever stops burning itself down) or maybe even Vegas. That would be fun to have a good old fashioned team move and name change. Sometimes you just need a fresh start in a new place you know?
its_happening
Vegas is a launching pad also so that’s a no go.
Montreal cannot and will not support baseball.
Nobody wants to go to Portland.
Enrico Pallazzo
Well I guess you know everything mr smart man. Montreal comes up as an idea quite often . Even with that silly idea to split cities with Tampa. Vegas would be a launching pad but not like coors. Most people probably don’t want to go to Portland but there are real efforts being made by groups trying to bring a team there eventually. Maybe you have some better ideas? Or you just like crapping all over other peoples random thoughts?
Boe Jiden
Totally agree. Offer some suggestions instead of crapping all over some else’s ideas. “Nobody wants to go to Portland” is just a dumb thing to say. Who is the “nobody” in that scenario?
Vegas might have some of the issues as Denver sure, but Montreal has a fan base that is frothing at the mouth for baseball. Montreal is absolutely a viable option. Nashville and Charlotte have groups trying to bring baseball to their cities as well.
its_happening
Nashville, Indianapolis, Charlotte, San Antonio. There is four.
Before you come up with an idea, check things out. You’d see inflated stats in Vegas. You’d see that nobody showed up or watched Montreal Expos games. You’d see that there are issues in Portland the last 6+ months. Easy on playing the victim card. To say you had a thought is a stretch,
its_happening
Boe Jiden – Considering what is happening in Portland I am not sure why you’d say what I said is dumb, and why would you be hypocritical over what I said when you resort to a much lower hanging fruit than I did?
Also, Montreal does not have a fanbase in Montreal. If you knew the city and the country you’d never say something as ignorant as Montreal “frothing at the mouth for baseball”. There are more Expos fans outside of Montreal than in Montreal. Re-check their attendance records and you will see they finished below average league attendance the last 20+ years and they drew less than what Tampa draws now.
Montreal is an option. A bad option.
Boe Jiden
In an interview from May of 2020, commissioner Manfred listed Vegas and Montreal as well as few other cities listed absolutely above as possible cities mlb could expand/relocate to. Maybe Montreal or Vegas are bad ideas. They are still, as of a few months ago, seen as potential places a team could land.
Getting back to the original point: baseball doesn’t work in Colorado long term. Team needs to move to a city that is sustainable for baseball.
its_happening
Montreal needs a new stadium. That is a stretch. Beyond that the Expos have fans across Canada thanks to national television. Unfortunately Montreal wasn’t interested in baseball.
Define sustainable. I say that with all seriousness because baseball won’t be motivated to move a team if that team makes money. If attendance drops to dead last in Colorado (like it did in Montreal), then it will be hard to argue sustainability. Relocation is a hard sell.
Troutgolfsinoctober
@ jb….. I mostly agree. Yes, Montreal deserves a team. Anything over Portland And enrico ….. I wouldn’t be crapping all over Portland either if I was him. That’s because it’s not even worth talking about putting a team there. Ppl are leaving in droves. They are not “coming” they are “going”. That’s a fact!
Good ppl live there(some not so good but that’s ANY city)that want a team yes. I agree. However, if you own a business it is not a stable environment for your investment. The city can not ensure public safety. Ppl are leaving, businesses are boarded up out of fear. Not sure if that’s the best place for a team when other cities are far safer and ppl aren’t leaving them like Portland. That combination equals no money. That’s why they won’t get a team. That’s just the facts, not politics. Nothing political about it. Just not the best place for a team. MLB can make more money elsewhere.
its_happening
Your entire take on Portland proved I was correct. Not sure why you had to make the crapping comment.
I know Montreal. It is not a viable option for major league baseball. People outside of Montreal care about the Expos. People IN Montreal do not.
Troutgolfsinoctober
The point was any city is better for a team than Portland (which we agree for once) and the crapping comment was to enrico who said I don’t know why you are crapping on Portland. That’s why I said the crapping comment. If you go back and read(I know it’s not your specialty) I write “and enrico “ before the crapping comment, therefore directing it at him. You are the biggest cherry picker on this site who can not read. I know I can’t write the greatest. But that was self explanatory when you go back and look at the posts. Just take one minute to read before you comment. I know it’s hard.
larry48
what about Nashville, Tn they have a group trying to get a team. I see Rays or Rockies going there.
Angels & NL West
I like the Rox, but it feels like they are a long way from contending in the NL West. The other 4 teams are currently better positioned to compete in 2021 and beyond. And the poor Rox still have Bridich and Monfort calling the shots. I just can’t imagine a scenario where they turn things around any time soon. You can’t replace the owner, but the GM has to go. Perhaps Theo’s 3rd miracle?
dave huth
The Colorado Rockies may as well fold as a whole organization. This club is so terrible. They signed Arenado, but have no money to pay him. Arenado isn’t even good. He has a good glove, but where is his bat. The Rockies must pray to God that Arenado opts out of his terrible contract. The only reason he can hit bombs is because he’s at Mile High. Also, he is a big headache in the locker room and clubhouse. Fire Jeff Bridich because he might be the worst in all of baseball.
Boe Jiden
Franchise needs to move to a different city.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Wow ….. you are just a hater. Worse, a hater that brought no facts to the table. If you said he can’t hit for average away I’d agree. But not the power bro. So a guy that hits 40 bombs every year. For the last couple complete years, with 38 his low. He still led the league that year with the 38, can’t hit a homer anywhere else?
Wow. Fun fact in 2019 he hit 1 less home run on the road than he did at home. But hey don’t let the facts get in the way of your temper tantrum. He’D still hit 25-35 in any city. And play all world defense. Is that worth 34 million? Nope. That’s the only thing you are correct about. But to say he has no power if he left is just wrong. Even seasons when he had 16 away, multiply that by two dude. It’s 32 which is still excellent. Even 28 with that defense, you will take it and like it.
Bring some facts next time. I’ll bring you some ice for the black eye you just got.
Troutgolfsinoctober
He has the best glove not a good glove. The only guy who has as good or better of a glove is chapman. They might be the best defenders at any position. . . Both went to the same high school in Cali. To say he’s not good makes you look like you know nothing about baseball. Nothing! 8 Gold gloves in 8 years. You have to go back many many years to have a run like that. Decades!
But yeah man that Arenado. He ain’t no good lol. You should be kicked off the site for your lack of knowledge. Your hating bad. Everyone knows I don’t care for trout, but he’s the best in the game and I must give credit to him. If I deny that then that’s not being realistic. You my friend are not being realistic.
Well Nolan’s the Best third baseman year in and year out. Some years a guy has a career year and might out do him but nobody is as steady over the last half decade. Is this Jeff B or Richard Monforts burner account?
flyfisher64
So for the prior quarter century, the Montfort’s approach largely has not worked and until he goes/ steps aside..expect more of the same mediocrity..
mlbnyyfan
I think the Arenando should be traded to Texas. Kiner-Falefa won the GG but they can move him if the acquire a all time great.
B-Strong
The Rox are pretty much screwed with Arenado. He would have to have an absolutely amazing year across the board in order to justify opting out of that contract. That means he’s likely to stay with it, and im pretty sure that contract isnt going to age well. Arenado is a defensive god, but his bats proven to be suspect over time.
AHH-Rox
The discussion of Arenado’s poor 2020 leaves out an important factor— the shoulder injury that he was fighting much of the season that put him on the IL for the last week or so.
Rockies fans have good reason to hope that a healthy Arenado will be a productive hitter again in 2021.
SalaryCapMyth
The home vs away myth
2019 HOME & AWAY OPS
Mike Trout 1.106 / 1.063
Mookie Bets .957 / .853
Juan Soto 1.061 / .877
Josh Donaldson 1.037 / .785
Mike Comforto .934 / .792
These home/away splits are from 2019. Doing better at home than you do on the road is normal baseball. I know it’s more drastic with the Rockies but we put to much emphasis on it. The Rockies aren’t unique for this.
its_happening
It is more drastic. That is the point.
SalaryCapMyth
It’s not as drastic as you think. THAT is the point.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Trout’s splits are barely worth mentioning. What would be more interesting is the average of all non-Rockies players vs Rockies players. You can take five guys and prove almost any point you want.
SalaryCapMyth
Of course you can. But this still demonstrates that home / road splits that favor home isn’t unusual. It’s easy for you to poke a hole by saying my sample isn’t big enough but then you aren’t posting any stats at all to support the concept that Colorado is this extreme example of home-road splits.
How about Arenado’s home/road split from 2019. It’s 1.057/.866 which looks really similar to Soto. Arenado’s split doesn’t look so strange next to the ones I posted. It’s obvious that Colorado’s reputation for home-road splits are exaggerated.
Jean Matrac
SalaryCapMyth:
It’s difficult to compare home and road OPS between teams. It doesn’t really tell you anything. You’re correct that most guys hit better at home. But some teams play in pitcher’s parks so the difference there will be minimal, compared to going from a hitter’s park to a pitcher-friendly one.
So I think comparing OPS and OPS+, since OPS+ is park adjusted, is more illustrative. This is a sampling of that comparison from 2019, Rank is in MLB which admittedly isn’t ideal due to the DH/no DH rules then. But shouldn’t have that much of an affect.
Team – OPS – Rank – OPS+ – Rank – Delta
Col. – .782 – 9th – 88 – tied for 24th – -15
Tex -.750 – 16th – 88 – tied for 24th – -8
Min – .832 – 2nd – 118 – 2nd – 0
LAD – .829 – 3rd – 117 – 3rd- 0
Mil – .767 – 12th – 97 – 13th – -1
TBR – .757 – 13th – 102 – tied for 9th – +4
Sea – .740 – 20th – 99 11th.- +9
SFG – .694 – 28th – 83 – 28th – 0
Det – .684, – 29th – 78 tied for 29th – 0
Mia – .673 – 30th – 78 tied for 29th – +1
I quickly scanned the other teams to see if there were other large differences, but didn’t see anything noticeable. Not saying there aren’t, just that I didn’t notice any. But clearly the Rox benefit from their park far more than any other team. Tex seems to have benefitted from their former park, but still not near what Col. did.
Troutgolfsinoctober
How did Baltimore or the Yankees benefit from their parks? Not saying Colorado doesn’t benefit the most. Just feel like you took big parks and applied it. You didn’t use Cincinnati also. All hitter friendly parks. I understand your point I just feel like you cherry picked to make your point(not saying you are wrong)
Troutgolfsinoctober
Look at Cruz or dj they left hitter friendly parks and hit for as much or more power. I know it’s not the standard it’s the exception but Nolan is exceptional lol. Cruz left Baltimore and for his four years in Seattle(supposed to go down according to the chart) he hit more hr than anyone in baseball in that span. Ny is a hitter friendly park too but if Colorado is that ridiculous of a helping factor how did he have career high power? I guess he did have way more protection in NY and saw way better pitches I’ll give you that. But point being in exceptional talents are exceptions.
its_happening
SalaryCapMyth – it IS more drastic and you lost your point, however wrong it was. Par for the course. For a refresher check what tad2b13 and perhaps even you can understand.
Jean Matrac
Troutgolfsinoctober:
I didn’t base my choices on the size of the home parks. I took teams from the top (Min. and LAD, omitting Hou because of the cheating). I have to admit that I accidentally left NYY off the list. They were 3rd in OPS, and 3rd in OPS+ not LAD, who were 4th in both categories.
I also took teams who were about league average (Mil, Sea, and TBR), and teams from the bottom (SFG, Det, and Mia) Col is there for obvious reasons, and I included Tex simply because their 88 OPS+ was a tie with Col for 24th in MLB.
I didn’t do the entire league because there wasn’t that much variation, but like I said, I didn’t look deeply at every team. But to answer your questions:
Bal had a team OPS of .725 for 25th place, and an OPS+ of 91 for 22nd place with a +3 delta.
Cin had a team OPS of .736 for 22nd place, and an OPS+ of 86 for 26th place with a -3 delta.
Clearly, Col benefits the most. Tex benefited a lot, not as much as Col, but that is moot due to a new stadium. Cin is somewhat helped as well.
Sea is hurt the most. TBR is hurt by their park and Bal is hurt somewhat. (No idea how significant a +3, or +4 delta is.)
But, like I said not a complete analysis.
Troutgolfsinoctober
These guys just don’t get it dude don’t waste your time on them. 41 bombs in 19. They have no idea that Dude hit 20 homers on the road in 19 but he sucks on the road right? Lol. Like I said above even if he only hit 13 home runs on the road, he’s on pace for 26 with the best glove. Them guys would love to have someone who plays some of the best 3rd Ever and hits 26. That’s being conservative because I think he would hit far better than that. He was hurt last year and averaged 40 home runs a year the previous 3 seasons. I get it he doesn’t hit for average on the road but that would come up if he had a permanent home away. ALL players hit better at home. You can only find a few guys that do better on the road. Never hear them cry about judges abysmal splits. Because he’s not at Coors.
I wrote about Larry Walker having a higher career ops plus(that’s park adjusted in case you fellas don’t know)than Griffey(141-136)on this same post above with the slash lines of both and he beats Griffey in all 3 categories by a mile(Griffey 284/370/538 to walkers 313/400/565). Almost 30 points higher across the board. Yet he barely got in the hall because he played at Coors. Griff got 99 percent of the vote(he deserved it) and Larry almost didn’t even get in. Ya can’t make this stuff up. Nobody is knocking Griffey, he is an icon but you guys sure don’t treat Larry like an icon.
Troutgolfsinoctober
@tad 2 b13….. I can’t argue with that, all I’ll say is good players buck that trend. That’s all it is dude. Just a trend. If Seattle is so hard to hit in….. and hurts hitters so bad why did Nelson Cruz leave Baltimore for Seattle and hit
More home runs than anyone for them 4 seasons? He hit more bombs than anyone in baseball his 4 years in Seattle.
Because he’s a stud. Nolan is a stud. Those numbers are averages for average players. I can’t dispute them numbers you are right. But Nolan’s not an average player. If it was that easy to hit 40 in Colorado every year why doesn’t everyone on the team have 40? I admit Blackmon benefits a ton from Coors. Why can’t he hit 40? By that logic everyone on Colorado should be hitting 30 or 40. But they don’t Because it’s not as cut and dry as the Coors haters think. That’s all I’m saying. I ain’t even saying you are a Coors hater but there’s plenty of them here.
We may not agree but I respect you because you brought facts and numbers.
Troutgolfsinoctober
@tad you also need to consider Baltimore sucks right now go back to 2012-2015 and I bet it’s a much bigger variance. Same with Cincinnati, they stink right now. So a lot has to do with the hitters on that team when it comes to those numbers. Baltimore is a very hitter friendly park. More than those numbers say. Same with NYY. Again….. I respect you and you ain’t wrong that COL benefits the most. They always have and always will. But ppl need to quit laying it like a blanket on every player.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I’m done after this because This will put an end to the power away from Coors argument …. starting in 15…. When he played a full season and started hitting for power(he didn’t do either in 13-14)
In 2015 he hit 22 home runs away and 20 at home and in 2019 he hit 21 at home and 20 away. In between them years he has never hit less than 15 Bombs on the road from 2015-2019. Hurt and played short season in 2020. I believe 17/18, one of them years he also had one less homer on the road than at home. Goto baseball reference and look it up. But the fact ppl are so lazy they don’t look it up and cry Coors is ridiculous. Stop jumping on the train and just look it up, I watch most of his games so I know. The Batting avg I won’t argue, he benefits big on avg at home, I already said that. But power you are ALL wrong.
There is no power argument, 15 bombs on the road(at the minimum) means he has 30 power anywhere(minimum). I don’t care what the Coors effect says. Those are the numbers. That’s just an indisputable fact.
Game, set, match.
its_happening
Or the fact that Coors has big field dimensions to counter the air factor which would then make hitting homeruns more difficult due to size. That nullifies your homer argument.
The fact you feel the need to defend the Rockies hitters when, as a team, it has been proven they cannot hit well on the road is blatant ignorance. The argument becomes game, set, match when the Rockies can become a perennial Top 10 hitting team on the road. They typically fall in the lower 5 or 6 despite finishing near the top in hitting at home. That is a red flag.
Troutgolfsinoctober
My argument was mainly about nado and the road power. I have always said all the nl west teams have big parks. I just laid out for you the stats on Arenado And the away power (which can’t be argued ) and you have zero to say about that.. I am not defending all their hitters. Just Arenado. I used Walker to make a point about the Coors hate and how real it is. You didnt say anything about either of those guys in your retort because you can’t. I proved why, and you have nothing. That’s why it’s game set match.
You used what if’s and what about Isms. Never said Rockies would be a top ten hitting team on the road. In fact if your reading comprehension was worth anything you would have seen I said they benefit the most from their field.
So I guess cause nado never hit less than 15 bombs on the road and I threw out the real numbers, I proved my “ignorance”. If actually posted real numbers to prove my point instead of just bashing the Coors guys makes me ignorant than I’m proud to be ignorant.
Troutgolfsinoctober
If it’s that easy to hit at Coors why doesn’t everyone hit 30 plus on the team every season? Come on and tell me….. if the Coors hate isn’t real why does nobody ever win an mvp? Why does walker have to barely get in when by the numbers he should have been in first or second time around and not the last? We KNOW they benefit as a team. So stop moving the goal post on my argument.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Year 2000, Todd Helton highest war, most hits, doubles, best avg, highest obp, slug, and most total bases with over 160 ops plus and comes in 5th in mvp voting(total robbery). From 2000 on he had 4 of 5 seasons with over a 160 ops plus. Troy tulo never won an mvp(partially because he couldn’t stay healthy) but had a few years of 160 ops plus. Nado never placed higher than 4th or 5th. It’s ok for Javier Baez to almost win an mvp And get closer than Nolan, mostly because of defense, but not for Nolan. I can keep giving you numbers even though you can’t post any numbers yourself. You use other posters numbers to justify your Coors hate to blanket all Coors hitters.
Bring some numbers of your own. That’s all I’m asking. I get it the rocks get help. We know dude. The great rocks hitters would do better than you think and I posted the numbers to prove it. Now put your numbers up to show me why they wouldn’t. Don’t bring batting avg because I already said nado has help on his avg from Coors, I readily admit that. My argument about him was to another poster saying he could Not hit bombs on the road which is flat out false and I proved it.
Jean Matrac
Troutgolfsinoctober:
First off, all I was doing was showing that the Rox, as a team, benefit from their home field far more than any other team. This was not intended to say anything about Arenado specifically. Actually, I’m a fan, and think he would be an upgrade at 3B for most teams.
I did look at the orioles from 2012-’15.
2015 OPS .728 – 12th, OPS+ 97 – 14th Delta -2
2014 OPS .734 – 5th, OPS+ 104 – 6th Delta -1
2013 OPS .744 – 4th, OPS+ 101 – 9th Delta -5
2012 OPS .728 – 12th, OPS+ 97 – 15th Delta -3
Your point is well taken in that multiple seasons should be looked at. While 2019 suggested the O’s were hurt by their park, the negative delta from -1 to -5 over those 4 seasons suggests they actually benefited from their park. So I looked at multiple years for the Rox.
72018 OPS .756 – 4th, OPS+ 90 – 21st Delta -17
2017 OPS .781 – 5th, OPS+ 90 – 26th Delta -21
2016 OPS .794 – 2th, OPS+ 97 – 13th Delta -11
2015 OPS .748 – 3rd, OPS+ 89 – 14th Delta -28
2014 OPS .772 – 1st, OPS+ 102 – 7th Delta -6
Once again, it’s clear that the Rox benefit at home more than any other team.
empirejim
I love Arenado’s D, but his bat is pretty pedestrian outside of Coors. I think the Rockies would have to eat a good chunk of his contract in order to move him. Their best hope is for one more dismal season that prompts him to opt out because he is such a competitor.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Well he’s not gonna have a dismal season this year I can assure you that, secondly I agree nobody is taking on that money. Don’t see how he could walk away from the money u less he really wants to win. Which I hope is the case because if he went to New York or the Dodgers for 20 something he might actually win.
His average would be pedestrian but if you look at 2019 splits he hit almost exact same number home runs away. His power will play anywhere. Maybe not 40 home run guy but I bet he hits 30 with all world defense which is still a 20 something million player.