Nolan Arenado’s future in Colorado — or perhaps the lack thereof — will be one of the main storylines throughout the 2020-21 offseason. The 29-year-old has publicly voiced dissatisfaction with the organization in the past, and another poor season followed comments from owner Dick Monfort that foreshadow a tight-budgeted winter don’t figure to improve the relationship.
In this week’s Offseason Outlook for the Rockies, I laid out the reasons that trading Arenado isn’t as simple as some might think. On the surface, a five-time All-Star who has won eight Gold Gloves in eight MLB seasons while hitting .293/.349/.541 and averaging nearly five WAR per season seems like a player who’d be highly in demand. As with any player, however, Arenado’s trade value is inextricably linked to his contractual status, and the franchise-record extension he signed in 2019 muddies the water.
Arenado is still owed a hefty six years and $199MM between now and the 2026 season. He’s due $35MM in 2021, and his contract allows him to opt out of the remaining five years and $164MM at season’s end. Any club that acquires Arenado recognizes there’s a chance he’ll only be around for one season. If Arenado plays at the level an acquiring team would hope for upon making the trade, that team knows there’s a chance he’ll opt out. The Covid-19 pandemic has obviously changed the financial outlook for many clubs and altered the sports economy, but Arenado would surely look at Anthony Rendon’s seven-year, $245MM contract and wonder whether he could approach that level with a big 2021 showing.
On the other hand, Arenado had his worst season ever at the plate in 2020 and finished the year on the IL due to shoulder soreness. That’s enough to already make some clubs wary, particularly because if that proves to be the start of a trend, they’d be stuck paying more than $33MM annually to a player on the decline. There’s no way Arenado opts out if he repeats this past season’s .253/.303/.454 output, so there’s inherent risk of being stuck with an albatross contract here.
A trade is further complicated by the fact that the Rockies would of course want to receive quality young talent in return. The optics of dumping Arenado simply to be rid of his salary would be extraordinarily poor for Monfort and general manager Jeff Bridich. Given the risk associated with the contract and Arenado’s shaky 2020 campaign, it’s frankly difficult to imagine a team taking on Arenado’s contract and parting with considerable prospect capital. The Rockies might have to pay down some of the deal and/or take another sizable salary on in return if they hope to find a palatable trade.
As if that context doesn’t complicate matters enough, also consider that Arenado has a full no-trade clause baked into the deal. He may welcome the the opportunity for a fresh start, but it’s possible he’ll need to be incentivized to waive that clause as well. Topping things off is that he’s not even the only All-Star third baseman who could be moved this winter. The Cubs figure to seriously entertain the possibility of trading Kris Bryant. A former Rookie of the Year and NL MVP, Bryant is coming off a down season of his own but has a similar ceiling with none of Arenado’s long-term risk. Bryant is in his final year of arbitration and is a free agent next winter. Only one team can get Bryant, of course, so interested teams that miss out could turn to Arenado. It’s also possible that some clubs prefer the Arenado gamble — long-term risk and all. Regardless, Bryant’s presence on the market plays a factor in any potential Arenado talks.
Suffice it to say, trading Arenado is a daunting task for the Rockies. Based on name value alone, one might think nearly every team would be inclined to look, but the majority of clubs around the game can be written off almost immediately. We can rule out low-spending clubs like the Indians, Pirates, Rays, Athletics and Marlins, as Arenado’s contract would be considered too extravagant for their budgets. The D-backs are still paying Zack Greinke to play for someone else and traded Paul Goldschmidt away rather than meeting his $130MM extension price — far less than the $199MM owed to Arenado.
The Brewers already gave a mega-deal to Christian Yelich and wouldn’t risk a second one. The Angels signed Rendon to the aforementioned $245MM deal last winter, and the Twins are very likely out after inking Josh Donaldson for $92MM. Cincinnati has Eugenio Suarez at third base and probably couldn’t stomach paying a combined $60MM to Arenado and Joey Votto anyhow, as phonetically pleasing as that pairing might otherwise be. The Astros have Alex Bregman at third base and could conceivably move him to another position, but that’s a reach with Carlos Correa locked in at shortstop. The Phillies look set at the corners with Alec Bohm and Rhys Hoskins.
We can also eliminate any clubs that are in the midst of a rebuild. The Rangers appear to be just starting down that road, and the Orioles aren’t far enough along in the process to consider a splash of this magnitude. The Tigers and Royals are hoping to soon emerge from rebuilding efforts, but this doesn’t seem likely for either unless it’s part of a sudden and unexpected all-in push. Elsewhere in the AL Central, the White Sox have a strong infield as is and would probably prefer to allocate resources to the rotation and/or right field. Maybe they could try Yoan Moncada in right, but Arenado is something of a square peg in a round hole for the South Siders.
Over in St. Louis, the Cardinals have been connected to a heavy-hitting third baseman for years, be it Arenado or Donaldson. It hasn’t come to pass yet, and while the need very arguably still exists after Matt Carpenter floundered through a tough 2020 season, it’s hard to imagine the Cardinals adding a contract of this magnitude. This is the same team that just declined Kolten Wong’s $12.5MM option in the name of financial flexibility, and the same club that seems to be grappling with whether it can afford to re-sign franchise icons Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright. Owner Bill DeWitt Jr. brazenly lamented the baseball industry’s lack of profitability earlier this spring and more recently offered a very reserved assessment of his club’s payroll outlook.
That’s a whole lot of teams that don’t seem likely to jump in on Arenado, so let’s turn to run through some clubs that might not be immediately ruled out.
Mets: Now backed by baseball’s richest owner and suddenly spared the $20.25MM they previously owed to Robinson Cano in 2021, the Mets are seemingly connected to every big fish on the free-agent and trade markets alike. Arenado would add an all-world defender to a club whose defense has been miserable for several years running. Incumbents J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil are solid options, but McNeil can play second with Cano suspended and Arenado should be a big upgrade over Davis. The Mets could conceivably even put Davis in a package to acquire Arenado, as he’d give the Rox a controllable, quality alternative with a nice bat.
Nationals: The loss of Rendon was clearly felt throughout the Nationals’ lineup in 2020, as Carter Kieboom wasn’t able to step up and fill the void. The Nats have Max Scherzer’s contract off the books after the 2021 season and could reallocate those long-term dollars to Arenado while entrusting Stephen Strasburg and Patrick Corbin to front the rotation. Washington’s payroll ranks toward the top of the league on a yearly basis, and GM Mike Rizzo isn’t afraid to make high-priced splashes. Adding Arenado would block Kieboom at third base, perhaps pushing him to second base or making him expendable in a trade — be it this hypothetical deal or another swap.
Braves: The Braves don’t have a clear third baseman in light of Austin Riley’s struggles, making this a solid on-paper fit. However, this is the exact type of move general manager Alex Anthopoulos has avoided since coming to Atlanta. He eschewed a long-term commitment to Josh Donaldson despite considerable fan backlash and has yet to acquire any player on more than a three-year deal (Will Smith). The seven- and eight-year deals for Ozzie Albies and Ronald Acuna Jr. were pre-arbitration bargains — the polar opposite of paying top-of-the-market value for a superstar already approaching his 30th birthday. Additionally, the club will likely still need to set aside some money to extend Freddie Freeman. This will be a frequently suggested landing spot for Arenado, but contextually, it doesn’t feel as strong as it looks at first glance.
Blue Jays: General manager Ross Atkins has already talked about acquiring “elite” players this winter, as the Jays have watched a strong young core emerge at the MLB level. Incumbent third baseman Travis Shaw is an obvious non-tender candidate, and while the Jays have some appealing youngsters down on the farm, a healthy Arenado is better than the ceiling of virtually any third base prospect. The Blue Jays quietly have quite a bit of financial flexibility, and if they could try to send Randal Grichuk back to Colorado as one of the pieces to offset a portion of the weight of Arenado’s contract (and fill a need for the Rockies at the same time).
Dodgers: A team with pockets as deep as the Dodgers and a farm system to match is of course going to be mentioned in connection to any high-profile trade target. They’ve been linked to Arenado in the past, and this morning while I was finishing this very piece, MLB.com’s Jon Morosi wrote about their continued interest. Adding Arenado would effectively displace free agent Justin Turner, who is revered in the L.A. clubhouse, but at least for the moment, there’s a vacancy at the hot corner at Dodger Stadium. Of course, the Dodgers just locked up Mookie Betts on his own mega-deal and may not be keen on issuing another. And it’s anyone’s guess whether the Rockies would actually consider trading one of the best players in franchise history to a division nemesis.
Giants: Speaking of division rivals — the Giants look to be coming out of their own rebuilding effort and have the money to take on Arenado’s contract. Brandon Belt, Brandon Crawford and Johnny Cueto will all be off the books after the 2021 season, leaving the long-term payroll outlook wide open. Veteran Evan Longoria is a roadblock at third base for the moment, but the Giants could send him back to Colorado as a means of both giving the Rockies a ready-made replacement and also offsetting some of the considerable cost they’d be taking on with Arenado’s contract. Younger talent would surely need to be added to make this appealing for the Rockies, of course. President of baseball ops Farhan Zaidi has spoken of a focus on the pitching staff and only looking at “complementary” position players, but he’s also said he hopes to return to the playoffs as soon as 2021.
Padres: We might as well get a little weird and round out the division-rival trifecta with an off-the-wall Padres suggestion. The Friars already have Manny Machado and his $300MM contract at third base and young superstar Fernando Tatis Jr. at shortstop. There were at least rumblings of potentially moving Tatis to the outfield in the event of a Francisco Lindor acquisition by the Padres, however. Adding Arenado would require an even more elaborate position shuffle, with Machado going back to shortstop and Tatis moving to the outfield grass. It’s a long shot that would likely require the Rockies taking a bad contract back — e.g. Wil Myers, Eric Hosmer — with the Padres chipping in some notable young talent. We’ve all learned by now not to count San Diego general manager A.J. Preller out of any scenario, but there’d be a whole lot of moving parts to get Arenado down to the Gaslamp Quarter.
Yankees: Like the Dodgers, the Yankees are almost an obligatory entrant in these types of exercises. They’re looking to pare back payroll this winter after spending at record levels in 2020, and their primary focus appears to be on retaining DJ LeMahieu. Arenado would be a luxury rather than a necessity — and a risky one at that — but the Yankees aren’t short on MLB-ready talent they could send back. Either of Gio Urshela or Miguel Andujar could appeal to the Rockies, and the team has some young pitching to work in as well. Arenado would be a tough fit with both Gerrit Cole and Giancarlo Stanton both on the books long-term, of course.
Cubs: It seems unlikely that the Cubs would take on a major contract after consecutive offseasons of effectively sitting out free agency. Owner Tom Ricketts has spent two years claiming not to have additional resources to allocate to the roster and earlier this summer proclaimed that ownership losses during the pandemic have been “biblical” in nature. The Cubs just laid off 100-some employees, per The Athletic. But they’re also expected to be active in reshaping the roster under new president of baseball ops Jed Hoyer, and they could jettison enough salary that cramming Arenado onto the books doesn’t seem impossible. Some combination of Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Yu Darvish and Willson Contreras could be moved this winter. Fitting Arenado into the picture still could be a stretch, though.
Red Sox: Boston already has Rafael Devers at the hot corner, but there’s been some speculation about him sliding across the diamond due to defensive struggles at third base. It’s admittedly tough to see the Red Sox taking on a contract like this less than one year after trading Mookie Betts and dumping David Price’s contract in order to limbo under the luxury tax line, but they’re a big-market team with huge payroll capabilities and probably don’t want to be a division afterthought for too long.
Mariners: Saving the most fun suggestion for last, let’s not overlook Jerry Dipoto’s ability to surprise the baseball world. “Trader Jerry” has rebuilt this organization’s farm system in a matter of two years and brought a number of interesting young players to Seattle — many of whom have now reached the Majors. Adding Arenado to an infield that already has two young Gold Glove winners in J.P. Crawford and Evan White would give the club a defense for the ages, and before anyone questions whether Seattle can afford to pay Arenado $33MM per year, consider that as of 2022, the only players on the books for the M’s are Marco Gonzales ($5.75MM) and White ($1.4MM). Bringing Arenado into the mix likely pushes Kyle Seager to designated hitter for the final year of his contract, which might be for the best given his declining defensive metrics.
—
That’s a whole lot of words on trading Arenado, but it’s important to remember that a deal coming together shouldn’t be considered a given. Arenado is not a Francisco Lindor-esque guarantee to be traded prior to Opening Day due to the complexity of his contract and the difficulty the Rockies will have getting what they’d deem fair value in return. Any of the highlighted teams at the end of this exercise could emerge as a rumored trade partner, though some are obvious reaches. In my view, the best clubs for the Rockies to work with are the Mets, Nationals, Dodgers, Blue Jays and, yes, the Mariners. That’s not to say any of those clubs are in talks or are likely to acquire him, however.
Of course, any trade depends on the extent to which those clubs believe Arenado can rebound from a mediocre year at the plate and the extent to which they’re willing to gamble on the glaring downside that is inherently woven into his contract. Trading Arenado isn’t as simple as some will make it out to be this winter, but it’s a reality the Rockies will have to explore.
baseballpun
More like ArenaNO, am I right?
Right?
Hmm.
Scott82
Ain’t no player worth 35 mil a year! These players are sad to see ain’t no team going to take that money and redo his contract to only see him falter in his later years.
sgord03
$35MM/year isn’t too sad to me…
bot
There’s tons of players worth 35 and 40 and even 50 mill per season any given season. Mookie was in his last year in Boston no doubt. Problem is paying that annually til there damn near 40. Nobody is worth that money.
22Leo
I think Betts will age very well and is one guy who has the intangibles, like leadership, to make that extension look very good for the Dodgers. Compare that to someone like Machado, who has talent but terrible character, even openly declaring that he slacks off and won’t ever change. That is one bad contract the Padres gave him.
skyline619
Right, like the guy got 3rd in MVP voting and was second to getting a gold glove at 3rd base was mostly slouching during the season. How about F.U. for making crap up to fit a narrative.
UnknownPoster
Skyline
Machado openly and publicly said he lost interest in the 2019 Padre season, because they were losing. It was year one of 10
Are you really a fan, if you didn’t know that? IT WAS A YEAR AGO
It’s not a narrative when it’s fact. 300M man. Year one. Gives up on team because it’s sub 500. You want THAT to mentor kids about working hard? Lmfao ok
Mendoza Line 215
I think that some of these premium players do not play as well when their team is not in contention.At least Machado was honest enough to admit it.One of the things that really fuels them is competition,and when the team is losing,that aspect is out the window.It is also one of the reasons that the best players tend to want to go to the best teams.They want a shot at the WS,especially if they have played for a number of years.Remember,they do not have to worry about their jobs as their ability and contract status are both far above the average player.To some extent I think that they are only being human,but it definitely affects their stats and in the long term can reduce their value.
statman
Hope whoever trades for him is ok with his .227 average with 1 HR on road in 2020!!!
Troutgolfsinoctober
Stat man ….. nice cherry pick. One season. You must have an eye problem. Goto baseball reference and look up his road ops or take the time to read the comments and you’ll see that’s an outlier on a year he was hurt. Stop embarrassing yourself. Acting like he’s a 220 hitter away from Coors. Your baseball intellect needs work. Read my other posts.
Never hit less than 15 bombs on the road in a full season. And a swiiiiiing and a miss for a so called stat man lol!
cookmeister 2
you mean his road OPS that’s .200 lower than at home? or the OBP of .320 on the road? Or his BA 60 points lower on the road?
He’s a good player, but to act like he’s the same person on the road is just wishful thinking from a potential suitor, or just being a homer
statman
Cherry picking??? Hmmmm …. well ok, I’ll try to keep it simple for you to understand – will just list batting averages to make it easier to follow along for you. I’ve listed home first and road second and limited it to 5 years – hope that’s not too much of a cherry pick for you …
2020 – .271 – .227
2019 – .351 – .277
2018 – .347 – .248
2017 – .336 – .283
2016 – .312 – .277
Lifetime – .322 – .263
Hmmmmmmm … looks like he’s kind of an average hitter on the road, but really gets all kinds of confidence or something at good ol’ Coors, eh? I would say a lifetime differential of 22% home-road splits on avg and 24% differential on OPS is what one would call statistically significant, wouldn’t you?
mlb1225
So he’s a .260-.280 hitter on the road with a .850 OPS and eltie defense? Sounds a lot like Matt Chapman. He’s better at home, but his OPS’ on the road range from .776 to .876. The one time since 2015 his OPS has dipped below .830 was in 2018 with that .776 mark. He’s been more productive on the road than many think. You can’t really take his 2020 numbers into account. He only had 86 plate appearances. Erik Gonzalez hit .331/.339/.509 in a 116 plate appearance sample size this year too. The other examples I used when he ws on the road, he had more than 300 plate appearances.
statman
Uh, no he’s not a .260 to .280 hitter on the road … he’s a lifetime .263 hitter on the road with the last 3 years not that good.
hiflew
Except if he is traded somewhere else, then his Coors stats can be added to his road stats. That would push the numbers up significantly. Which is exactly what the stat does for every player that doesn’t play at Coors.
mlb1225
Since 2015, his breakout season, he’s hit between .248-.277. If his lifetime average is .263, a .260-.280 hitter is reasonable. His home and away splits were much more dramatic back in the early part of his career. Look at his OPS’s since 2015:
’15: .835
’16: .832
’17: ..886
’18: .772
’19: .882
’20: .639*
*Again, that 2020 mark is in only 87 plate appearances. You can’t look at that small of a sample size to determine if he was actually good or not.
Jean Matrac
BA is a terrible way to evaluate a hitter’s value. Road BA is even worse.
802Ghost
Significantly is a stretch unless he lands in the NL West.
looiebelongsinthehall
The problem is with COVID, many clubs can’t take that contract right now, even a few you would think could. Not if they want to win. Why pay top dollar AND give up prospects when prospects have never been valued more? Mookie was an exception (LA major market, long winning drought, financial flexibility in both short and long term). Only team I see is the Mets and even with new ownership’s money, I don’t see a deal based on what the team would likely offer v. What the Rockies would expect in return. Maybe if the Mets steal DJLM from the Yankees, the team in the Bronx would look to make a trade with Colorado and then use Urshela as part of a package to get Lindor. A lot of moving parts but if DJ goes to Flushing, that would be an old George type move to get the back page back.
looiebelongsinthehall
I’ll take a team of .300 hitters any day.
tesseract
Players usually hit worse on the road. Arenado is actually an outlier on how well he performs outside of Coors. Do some research
AngelDiceClay
What’s sad is your lack of command of the english language.
Stevil
‘English’ is capitalized.
Koamalu
Players are worth whatever a team is willing to pay. MLB made record revenue in 2019 add pre-Covid was set to make even more in 2020. In 2021 MLB will get $2.125 billion in additional revenue from new national TV deals. That’s $70 million more money coming in per team per season.
So every team can afford to spend $35 million on one player if they want to.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
What? He is probably the most consistent defensive presence in the MLB, and possibly in its history. He also has been a far above average hitter(before this year of course, but plenty of MLB’s stars were bad at the plate this year. Ask Belli), and this is coming from a Giants fan.
baseballpun
I wouldn’t pay him that much AND give up prospects to do so. One or the other, sure.
User 4245925809
Wrong. Mookie Betts was consistently the best defensive RF in the game by defensive runs saved for a few seasons and he was playing RF at one of the biggest (fenway), with tough to play corner, not to mention during daytime games has one of the toughest sun fields around. I’d say betts has been consistently tops, defensive runs saved, range.. etc at his position over his peers.
17dizzy
I beg to differ with the article concerning the Cardinals. Arenado has been sought by the Cardinals in previous years. Arenado isn’t against signing with the Cardinals. He’s as much as said so last season.
The Cardinals have some young players available plus, the Cards have some players on their 40 man roster that would fit nicely in Colorado. {O’Neil (Gold Glover), and Gorman specifically}
Wong has been cut. Carpenter is going to be an expensive bench player, (unless Carpenter would do the honorable thing like McGwire did and left his next years pay on the table and retired—- when McGwire saw he was washed up).
At any rate—-a large amount dead weight payroll will come off the books for 2022.
Here would be the Cardinals starting lineup
Arenado 3rd
Edman. 2nd
Goldschmidt. 1st
DeJong. SS
Carlson. LF
Molina/Kinzner C
Bader. CF
Fowler/ platoon. RF
gbs42
I doubt many athletes would do what you call “the honorable thing” and walk away from millions of dollars. David Wright and Dustin Pedroia come to mind. They’ve been exceedingly confident in their abilities for decades, so to expect them to consider themselves done must be extraordinarily difficult. And again, there’s the $18M or so to consider.
22Leo
My memory of McGwire, which stands out the most, is of him crying like a child while admitting to cheating in front of Congress.
sgord03
Well… he actually said he never took steroids in front of congress. He admitted to it prior to him being hired as a hitting coach which begs the question – what world are you living in?
Tim_Buck-Two
Im offically voicing my dissatisfaction with Colorado’s inability to move him thus making us all read about it for a 3rd off season in a row… TRADE HIM ALREADY
Mrtwotone
I could actually see the swap with San Francisco involving longoria to offset some of the salary. Ultimately I don’t think he gets moved though I’d love to see Nolan in Atlanta
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
Well, the Rockies would be ridiculous to not move him. He’s opting out after the 2021 season, no doubt. Why not move him and at least get something before he just leaves? The move to SF, even as a Giants fan, won’t happen sadly. If it were to, we would lose too much. Arenado is a great player, whether it be with a glove or a bat, and the Rockies are going to ask for a sky high amount, and may not even get anything for Arenado leaving Coors
its_happening
He’s not opting out of that contract. He will request a trade long before he opts out. He’d have to be far and away the best player in baseball to consider opting out.
jimthegoat
How is he opting out, “no doubt?” Usually a player only opts out if they are obviously worth more than whatever they are opting out of. Like Stephen Strasburg, Zack Greinke, or Alex Rodriguez.
Chief Two Hands
Seems to me that the Cardinals are a likely destination if traded. I’m not sure the Rockies are smart enough to move him, but it’s not unprecedented for them, of course.
baseballpun
it would make sense if I thought for a second that the Cards would take on that contract. Unless that’s why they declined Wong’s option and they’re getting ready to trade for Arenado and move Edman to 2nd. But I doubt it.
RedbirdNation3
Almost every team mentioned above predicates an Arenado trade with the Rox taking back a bad contract. Why wouldn’t the same apply for the Cardinals with Carp and/or Fowler?
gbs42
I think both Carpenter and Fowler have no-trade rights that complicate things.
Four4fore
Correct, but Carpenter has fly out to right stuff that would play well in Colorado.
Dogbone
Only way to move the pieces in the puzzle around, and be able to get a deal done with the Cubs – is if the Rockies pick up all of JHeys contract. But if I’m the Cubs, I don’t commit to a contract like this. Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson.
Rockies are going to have to ride this one out.
RedbirdNation3
Also, the Cards can make the deal without including Carp (although they’d much rather send him to Colorado). So if you’re Carp, wouldn’t you rather go to Denver to be the starting 3B instead of being Arenados backup? Maybe he can catch some Coors magic so his 2022 option vests.
bush1
He’s much more likely to NOT opt-out. His contract is massive, and teams will still be crying poor to extent
Next offseason too. I’d bet heavy he doesn’t opt out.
Joggin’George
Yea, I don’t get people thinking he’ll opt out… he’s not getting a better deal than he’s already got.
nowheretogobutup
Arenado’s contract is the killer and then his poor 2020 season. It’s a gamble whoever makes the move. The Rox would have to eat about 1/3 of his contract to make things even come close to happening.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
Every MLB player is a gamble after the 2020 season. Bellinger was garbage, Yelli we won’t even mention, Judge was good for 5 games, and Cole did far worse than expected, just to mention a few guys. I would say you kind of have to overlook 2020 and look at their career. I wouldn’t get too down on those guys, because in a full season they would’ve had more time to turn around. Unless it’s Soto or DJLM. Gosh those guys had a year
UnknownPoster
Go look at Bellinger. He had a 300 OPS (not a typo) in the first month, then 800 and 927 OPS
Omg he took a minute to warm up with a slow season. Let’s not pretend he’s not an annual MVP candidate. In a normal year no one cares about the first 20 games. Here it’s 1/3 the year..
MoRivera 1999
tward09
As I recall, Judge was leading the league by 2-3 HR’s with 9 HRs when he went down to injury in early August. Now, he struggled when he came back in September, agreed. But he was hardly only good for 5 games. That’s flagrant hater talk.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Dude, he hit 250 because of a bummed shoulder, he was hurt. Hardly the “start of a trend”. I would expect you guys to at least mention the injury. Smh.
Steve Adams
I originally had the shoulder issue mentioned and must’ve nerfed that sentence while editing something. I updated to include a mention.
That said, the shoulder injury and/or downturn in production could both be the onset of a downward trajectory in his career. I’m sure the Rockies, Arenado and the baseball world as a whole hopes that’s not the case, but any owner looking at taking on $200MM in remaining salary will absolutely be wary of similar troubles on the horizon.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I get it Steve, Thanks for the admission. I appreciate that. I even posted above I don’t see anyone taking on the money. 200 million is always 200 million no matter the player. I get it. Believe me. I just took issue with not mentioning his injury.
Also, I liked how you even included the division teams chances, and thought process. However unlikely. You wrote a fine article and took a lot of time so thank you for the response. That was my only knock on an otherwise great piece. Thank you.
Bigball11
Not only are you an idiot about most things, you’re also a loser who sucks up to people who don’t care about you. Lol this place is comedy
Troutgolfsinoctober
@bigball you got no facts. Just another hater. What makes me an idiot? The fact I was in bed with the one who conceived you til 3 this morning and I’m tired now? Go make daddy some Cheerios I’m hungry
baseballpun
Commenter: “Jesus what a bunch of amateurs on this site not mentioning ____. smh”
Writer: *Explains*
Commenter: “Oh, hey I get it. Love what you do. Didn’t mean to be a jerk. Thanks for acknowledging my existence.”
oldmansteve
The script of insecure cowards
Troutgolfsinoctober
Or just someone who appreciates he omitted his error. Never said he was an amateur. But to say someone’s on the decline and not mention an injury is not fair. He said I got you and I said I appreciated it. Why is that wrong?
Troutgolfsinoctober
Way to stick words in my mouth. That never happened. Nice alternative history. Never said he was amateur and at bottom of the post I defended him because another guy was getting on grammar. I had an issue with not mentioning an injury which is fair. Then said I appreciate the fix.
baseballpun
If you’re not a coward, you’ll go to Steve’s house and tell his children TO THEIR FACES that their father is a hack. Then, while Steve is comforting his crying kids, you’ll hit on his wife.
baseballpun
Truthfully, I just feel like a see a version of this on almost every post, so I made the joke. It was at your expense, but it’s nothing personal about you or even this specific post.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Why would I do all that when all’s I asked for is an omission on not including an injury. That’s important as to why a career 300 hitter hit 250. You are a complete clown
Troutgolfsinoctober
Oh okay guess I’m not allowed to defend myself. Guess I’m just supposed to let you write your revisionist history and then let you go on about how I’m going to go to Steve’s house and proceed to make it personal when it wasn’t. You say don’t take it personal then get personal. Stop being a hypocrite.
baseballpun
Oh, right. You won’t even traumatize some kids and try to break up a marriage, and I’M the clown? Smh.
Troutgolfsinoctober
lol at this point I’m dying laughing and you have completely disarmed me….. what do you want me to say? Jeeze man. Send me Steve’s address already then 😉 …. just kidding.
I get it I’ll lighten up. That was funny
baseballpun
*thumbs up emoji*
UnknownPoster
Being polite is now being a coward
America 2020
oldmansteve
If he wanted to be polite he would have been polite in his first post, not backtracked after he got called out for being brash and then put on a friendly face.
its_happening
Or, Nebraska, he realized he was being harsh and took ownership of that. Something you haven’t done. Maybe take a page or the hint?
UnknownPoster
You sound like a child. “If he’s bad I can be bad!“
“It’s not my fault! He hit me first!”
Or, you could pretend you’re an adult…
Chief Two Hands
People here edit stuff? Next I will be told they proofread their articles…Sorry, man…too many do not. Just teasing, though.
dobsonel
Just for fun, assuming Stanton would waive his no trade clause, what would a three team trade look like and who would the third team be?
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
The Bears and the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant softball team
rhymo
Me Burns is too cheap to take on that salary!!
Troutgolfsinoctober
That mr burns comment was awesome dude lol thumbs up
tbone0816
Cardinals
Troutgolfsinoctober
@ the one …. the cards had interest in Stanton before, it’s possible I agree. Just not probable. But his trade value is low. And much as I don’t wanna admit it, will be super tough for Nolan to find a place to go with the contract.
twins&mlbfan4ever
dodgers
mlb1225
I know a lot of people are going to say that “Well, Arenado sucks away from Coors”. He’s better in Coors, which is ovbisous, but he doesn’t go from a perenial MVP hitter to a scrub whene he plays away. Look at his away OPS’s since 2015
’15: .835
’16: .832
’17: ..886
’18: .772
’19: .882
’20: .639*
Aside from 2018, he’s a .850 OPS away hitter. That’s still really good. Even then, it’s not like his ’18 was awful. .772 is still above league average.
*Note: he only had 86 plate appearances away from home this year, so take it with a grain of salt.
DTDATL
Yeah, the “he sucks on the road” crowd are clueless.
Mendoza Line 215
I think that the naysayers point regarding his home/Road splits is that while he is still a reasonable hitter on the road and of course a fine fielder that kind of production would in no way warrant an equivalent contract to what he has now.
I think that the Rockies are in somewhat of a bad place with him but he is too.He wants to play for a pennant winner now that he is getting older and that may be a few years down the line for Colorado.But he needs to have another very good year with good Road/ home splits to even think about leaving that much money on the table.
JFactor
Added to that, Rockies hitters are the worst road hitter in baseball since their inception….by a lot.
There is something to their adjustments coming and going from Coors. Or maybe they spend a lot of time hitting in pitchers parks on the road (I think it’s a mixture of both)
Last time I checked, Rockies hitters on the road are a lifetime 81 wRC+. Easily the worst in baseball
its_happening
He’s been fine on the road. Just not $35-mil per year fine on the road.
24TheKid
Good thing he’ll play half his games at home.
mlbdodgerfan2015
So, it will obviously depend on where his home games are played at. If a pitcher friendly park most likely the numbers will likely be worse than the road performance.
its_happening
Exactly. 24TheKid missed the mark like Michael Bay when he made Pearl Harbor.
smuzqwpdmx
He’s good on the road. Still an All-Star with a well above average bat and great defense. But he’s paid like an MVP candidate, which he definitely isn’t away from Denver. Who wants to buy a contract that’s based on inflated numbers?
Troutgolfsinoctober
Also funny how Rendon can get his salary and it’s no big deal. Tony never even hit 30 bombs until he had a juiced ball. He’s not the same player. And for everyone who says he only hits them bombs because Colorado. I had to school ppl in another thread on his away power.
Since 2015 when he started playing full years and hitting bombs ( didn’t play full seasons or hit home runs in 2013-14 ). . . In 15 he hit 22 home runs on the road and 20 at home. In 2019 he hit 20 on the road and 21 at home. In 17 or 18 he also hit one less on the road than at home. He has never hit less than 15 on the road from 2015-19. That makes him a 30 hr guy anywhere. Especially considering the rest of the NL west parks are not the most hitter friendly and are huge. Stop the non sense Coors argument. It may help the team, it may help the average, but the numbers don’t lie on nado and the away home run power. Just stop. Those are the facts. Because we know ppl are about to say “he only hits home runs cause of Coors”.
Non sense
its_happening
Rendon had been in the Top 3 among 3B OPS on the road in 2019 and 2018. Arenado was not. Arenado cracked the Top 3 once in 2015. In Colorado there’s more to it than just bombs; elevated pitches, fast infield (something I notice watching games there), fly balls turning into doubles, and I’m sure there’s more.
In 2018 and 2019 Arenado was 11th among 3B in road OPS. Those road bombs only did so much for him.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I can’t argue any of that but let’s talk defense than…. Rendon isn’t even on the same planet. So you are correct there is more to it than that. Only things I give tony credit for being better at is his on base is always better, and he’s a good doubles hitter as well. The road numbers will be what they will be.
I can not argue that. I have the network and I watch most games. I also heard announcers say how the ball hangs up there, less spin rate. So the road adjustment has a lot to do with it, if the ball spins more away it’s obviously a harder adjustment. But your right there is more to it. Nobody even wants to talk defense when it comes to Tony vs Nolan it’s not a contest.
Troutgolfsinoctober
All I’m saying is power is huuuuuge for a corner infielder. And tony can’t compare, we can play devils advocate on what would tony do in Colorado but we won’t know. We know Nados power plays anywhere. Tony hit 30 once, nado does it every year Coors or no Coors. I don’t feel like writing on about the away power stuff again, you have seen it.
its_happening
If power is that huge then let’s stop talking OPS in arguments. OPS seems to be the new gold standard and yet despite all the power Arenado has he falls short more often than not against other 3B despite the bombs. That’s not good. Falling outside the Top 10 the last three seasons is now a potential consistency situation.
As for D, no question Arenado is better. Personally I think Rendon should have remained at 2B.
Nonetheless, I’m open for my Blue Jays to deal for Arenado.
Loling @ you
Accept the main difference is rendon is a far better hitter the last 3 years. Rendon 155 ops+ versus 130 ops+ The defense isn’t far off from arenado… Arenado, though the splits are bad I would not pay 35 million for a .260 with 25-30 homeruns.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Fair enough. It’s not that it’s that huge but in corner infield that’s what you do. Ply good d and hit for power that’s part of your job. But top ten is still good. I never said it’s 35 million good and I agree with you. Point taken
Troutgolfsinoctober
It is far off because tony was in the same league his whole career and if it was close he’d have at least one gold glove but he doesn’t. And go check the splits. It’s no what you think. Nado a 1.6 d war last year in a short season. That’s arguable that he was most valuable defender at any position last year. Not saying he was but it’s close.
its_happening
All good. Pretty good discussion. Arenado is one of those guys where you know he’s a darn good ballplayer but that Colorado effect confuses everyone as to just how good he is. Like I said, I want the Jays to be in on him and even if Arenado were to opt out I’d be fine slapping a QO, taking the draft pick and saving the money.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I feel the same way man, I want him to go anywhere else at this point. Thanks man good talk
mlbdodgerfan2015
@ Troutgolf. The numbers don’t lie. Arenado is a career 0.985 OPS in Coors and 0.793 away. The 0.192 spread is huge. Power is overrated without the context of OPS. 0.793 OPS is very pedestrian for a 3B. He’s a good player. Has some pop and plays great defense, but no way he puts up anything close to his historical numbers without playing at Coors. He’s a good player getting paid elite dollars. That’s a big problem. Coors is as good as a hitting park there is. It’s huge, the ball carries extremely well and the breaking pitches break less. Triple whammy for pitchers. Not impossible that he could still put up numbers elsewhere but highly unlikely that his production doesn’t take a major hit.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I don’t think it wouldn’t take a hit. Alls I’m saying is his career low road home runs is 15, that makes him a 30 home run guy anywhere with the best(him or Chapman) glove. You will take 30 hr and a gold glove every year from your third basemen. He had hit over 20 on the road twice, so the power is there no matter where he goes. I get it there’s more to it than power. But NL west parks are not hitter friendly so if you have 15 road bombs playing in that division your power plays anywhere.
Never said anyone was worth 35, never said to make the trade. All I’m saying is ppl act like he’s trash outside of Coors and that’s obviously not the case. I don’t deny he’s a 260 hitter outside Coors but that would adjust. And the power plays anywhere. If you read the posts that’s all I’m saying. I don’t know how that’s even up for debate.
mlbdodgerfan2015
A lot of players hit 30 HRs and I’m sure Arenado could have decent power numbers depending on where he ends up, and always has a very good glove. But it won’t come close to what he was posting as a Rockie. He’s not trash outside of Coors, just a lot worse than he is at home. Good players getting paid elite dollars is not how you win World Series. When he signed that contract with the Rockies I think all of us except Colorado knew that it was a very bad contract. Then again maybe even Colorado knew that it was a very bad deal but felt like they were forced to give it to him out of loyalty. That usually doesn’t end well. I don’t see Friedman pursuing this unless the Rockies eat a big portion of that contract.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I don’t see Friedman doing it either unless Colorado eats ten million. Imo Friedman is the best gm in baseball. Again I don’t see anyone really taking it on. We agree on most.
I just don’t agree he is a lot worse Away because he didn’t hit or play full years his first two seasons, when you throw them out he has an 800 plus road ops every season since 2015 minus last year. So for 5 years in a row that’s no fluke, (counting 15-19 it’s five not 4 because you count both 15 and 19) he has had around an 800 ops. That’s still good. It’s not his Colorado numbers and I won’t even try to argue that. He would take some type of hit, I just feel that hit that he would take is exaggerated that’s just my opinion. We aren’t gonna fully agree. And that’s okay. His first two years he wasn’t the same hitter as he became After 15. Good post’s and good talk. I gotta run. Have a good day my guy.
mlb1225
I think Toronto here would make the most sense. The Jays have the prospect capital to make a move like that and don’t have very many big commitments on their payroll. Only one I can really think of is Ryu and that’s not that big of a contract either. The Jays could also send Roark to help offset some salary instead of having to eat it.
92jays
It wouldn’t make sense for Colorado to take on bad contracts like roark or grichuk
its_happening
How about both?
mlb1225
Not Grichuk, but Roark would make more sense. He’s not under control for a long time, only 2021, and it does off set a bit of salary for the season at least.
its_happening
To make this deal possible it will have to be Grichuk. In fact more Grichuk than Roark at this point. Grichuk could pound 40 per year playing in Colorado.
KamKid
Toronto still has to buy out Tulo’s ’21 option. I’d like them not to let Colorado off the hook again.
its_happening
If it means a World Series ring or darn close like 2015-16 you make that trade every time. There will be negatives with that kind of contract.
However, Jays need two pitchers before they think about a trade like this. Ray is not one of those pitchers.
KamKid
I don’t know. Once bitten twice shy I guess. This rebuild thing is hard to take for a lot of fans. If it helps immediate contention in the playoffs without threatening the longer term goals then yeah go for it. I don’t think Arenado is that piece. The risk here is too great when it kind of has to be a best case scenario to think of it as providing any reward.
Poundsy24
The Red Sox should make this move. After moving Mookie, this is a guy you want. This kind of player does not become available very often. At $32.5 million/year though that’s a tough contract to work with.
Maybe offset with JD Martinez contract a little bit, toss in a couple prospects like either Chavis or Dalbec plus a prospect in the lower minors. JDM reduces the contract size and length, Rockies get a couple young guys, one ready for MLB action and the Sox slide Devers over to 1B, get an MVP-caliber 3B and can maybe make a run for a DH-type like Ozuna.
This would mean JBJ is gone for sure. I’d honestly attach a competitive draft pick and maybe another decent prospect if it meant getting COL to retain just a little bit of salary per year.
Another route that no one is gonna like, trade Devers for him. Arenado is more proven and still under 30. Devers was a stud prospect, had a couple good seasons, but he’s no MVP candidate that can also save a ton of runs on defense. Use Devers years of control as leverage to have COL retain salary. $25mil/year for Arenado would be my target.
Gotta save salary elsewhere though. Tough allocating about $100mil/year to just 4 guys. Gotta build the farm. Maybe move a guy like Benintendi to do that. Sign short-term options like Brantley and again, Ozuna to be competitive if you want to be. The Sox are a project. Very interested to see what Bloom has up his sleeve.
beyou02215
No chance that Boston trades Devers for Arenado.
bot
If they weren’t gonna keep mookie- no way they go get arenado
Poundsy24
I completely agree with both of you. Not gonna happen. Arenado is a guy I want on my team until the end of time. He’s a gamer worth every penny.
Johhos
Phillies could work in a trade..Hoskins, Velasquez and younger catching prospect ( not Marchan ) . Phillies could also take on Desmond if you take Herrera..
Bohm plays first too.
But Story would be a better fit in Philly .
hiflew
I wish people would stop calling Arenado’s 2020 a “down year” because it wasn’t. It was a below average (for him) 2 months. 2020’s stats are too small to tell anything from when compared to 162 game seasons. All it is is a player having a bad April and May before going on a tear later in the summer. Some players need longer to get going than others. And a lot of the ones that had great 2020s are the same as having a great April and May before falling off the last four months of a year. We are better off just basically ignoring 2020 altogether or at the very least not giving it as much emphasis just because of how different it was from the norm.
SalaryCapMyth
I get your point but you should use a different example or at least look at the stats because your example is wrong. July, Arenado’s opening month was EASILY his best while the rest of the season was bad.
Disproving the example doesn’t defeat your point but it doesn’t demonstrate why your point is correct either.
UnknownPoster
Ok. Bellinger
300 OPS first month
795 month 2
927 month 3
Ended with a 789 OPS even though 2/3 of his months were better
hiflew
It’s not exactly the same point for every player. The point is that streaks can happen (both good and bad) in a 162 game season that would basically be covered up by the rest of the year. In a 60 game season, those streaks are the season. Dan Uggla was famous (or infamous) for being a much better player after the All Star Break. I used to grab him in a buy low trade in fantasy every year and was often rewarded. Others start out strong, make the All Star team and then are bums the rest of the way. Domonic Brown is a good example there. He was an AS in 2016 and looked like he might finally deliver on his promise, but he tailed off considerably in the 2nd half and was released the next year. If we had a 60 game season in 2016, Brown would have probably gotten a big extension from someone after the year.
UnknownPoster
The point was this seasons overall numbers are kinda dumb to look at without context, because its such a short season. We agree you just pulled Uggla as another example
JFactor
But are the Nationals really getting new budget room with Max walking, considering how his contract was laid out and deferred?
Troutgolfsinoctober
Lol @jfactor ….. they would defer that 200 million for so long if they picked up Nolan he would be getting paid after his death. Them guys are ridiculous. I hope it comes back to bite them when they owe max and Steven all that money not to play. Good point my guy.
SalaryCapMyth
LOL! The Nationals sign a $200 million dollar contract and it’s paid out at $1 a year for 200 million years. =D
For Love of the Game
With his brutal home/away splits over his career? No way!
Troutgolfsinoctober
Not a wise comment see other posts to disprove
For Love of the Game
OPS .985 home, .793 road.
Guess what homer, he’s a little better than average hitter on the road, which represents how he would hit if he were traded! Gold glove defense, but the package ain’t worth $33 mill. a year!
Stuff it, Mr. Unwise. Or should I say, Mr. Monfort!
Troutgolfsinoctober
From Baltimore but thx. Look up the away power, ops aside he’s a 30 homer in guy with all world defense, that’s what a good third base does. Save runs and hit for power. and I never said that’s worth 35 million. Nice try.
baseballhobo
The Rockies might as well trade Arenado to the Dodgers. Colorado will lose to L.A. with or without their biggest star.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Dude almost everyone will lose to LA regardless of who they have. They are arguable the best team in baseball year in and out. But to your defense I wish he would go to LA and win for a change.
troll
grichuk can’t go back to colorado since he never played for them. toronto can send him to colorado
Josip Tomic
True.
Josip Tomic
Hello Steve,
Can you fix the two sentence? You put ‘the’ twice & there’s a gap between the word ‘my’ & ‘view’.
“He may welcome ‘the the’ opportunity for a fresh start, but it’s possible he’ll need to be incentivized to waive that clause as well’.
“In my ‘ view’, the best clubs for the Rockies to work with are the Mets, Nationals, Dodgers, Blue Jays and, yes, the Mariners. That’s not to say any of those clubs are in talks or are likely to acquire him, however”.
SalaryCapMyth
Oooor you could just be happy this is a free service. If you want to give your input on writing to count for something than maybe you should purchase a subscription to The Athletic.
Troutgolfsinoctober
Josip ….. if you can write so good, then you write the articles dude. He took a long time to put a lot of viewpoints in. I didn’t agree with all, and I had an issue with not including the injury at first. That said, he did a fine job. You English major pencil pushing Monday morning quarterback.
oldmansteve
This guy was just trying to help the writer out. He wasn’t rude or condescending. He was adding his “Free” input on a “Free” site that doesn’t pay to have copyeditors. Throwing insults at him makes you look petty as heck.
Troutgolfsinoctober
So acting like an English major on a baseball website doesn’t make you petty…. but what you wrote about me above wasn’t petty? (The omission on the Injury) Or condescending? Thx Steve I can now see I’ll always be able to count on you to tell me I’m petty and insecure. Lol at this point I’m laughing because you have been nothing but personal and didn’t even talk about the article. Why are you here if you didn’t wanna talk Arenado? Just another troll. You can have the last word. I’m done responding to trolls. Ppl like you add nothing to the baseball conversation about the potential trade at hand.
hiflew
What if he is an English major on a baseball website? Should he pretend to just be a regular moron and overlook it just because others don’t care?
Troutgolfsinoctober
Look I can be a bit harsh sometimes, you obviously can be too. However, I can also be very polite when someone makes a good point. I always give due credit if I agree or see a good point. So are you calling me a regular moron?
I took his comment as condescending. If I am wrong And he is one, than I would apologize to him if he asked for one. However, If you understand the article, then it shouldn’t matter. I have a feeling both of you did understand the article. So his writing is effective IMO. If you don’t like it go someplace else. Free country brother.
So to answer the question….. I would laugh and just say I guess the Joke is on me. I know my writing is trash, and I don’t care. I’m not writing a paper for a professor so it doesn’t matter to me. I’m not here to impress anyone with writing or be impressed by someone’s writing. The fact it matters to anyone on a baseball site seems ridiculous. To write nothing about the trade proposal, yet tear apart someone’s writing? Why even get on here? It’s about the trade possibilities, it’s About baseball. Take your language major elsewhere. I have to go though so you can have the last word if you wanna keep trolling my posts. I’ll still tell you to have a great day though.
Signed, regular moron.
oldmansteve
I 100% am being rude to you, and will not pretend I am not after the fact, but thank you for writing an essay rationalizing your behavior.
Troutgolfsinoctober
@steve ….. still not talking any baseball I see. That’s a trend with you. You like that essay? Good. I thought it was a fine piece myself. Poor English aside buddy. Not a problem Steve, especially considering this comment wasn’t toward you. But it’s okay, I’ll still kill you with kindness too. Have a good day my guy lol.
worthington
Don’t see any chance with Giants. None.
ChangedName
Why would anyone give up a top level package for him with the 2021 opt out?
its_happening
I don’t think a top level package will be needed to take his full contract on. Hypothetically if the Blue Jays dealt Roark, Grichuk and a young prospect outside for Arenado it would be a big addition and subtraction. If Arenado opts out, drop a QO on him and take the draft pick while saving millions.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I agree. That would probably get it done. The rocks get a decent arm, a young kid and everyone’s happy.
ChangedName
Is the one year “trial” worth him having another down year or getting hurt and the new team getting stuck with a $200 million deal?
I’m not sure a team like the Jays will be signing up for that after how poorly the Tulo deal ended up for them. Rockies would have to pick up some of the deal and practically give him away for other teams to take that risk of him opting into the rest of that deal.
its_happening
The Tulo deal wound up pushing the Jays to two ALCS appearances. They do not get there without that trade. Take the good with the bad.
Pads Fans
Jon Paul Morosi said today that it would take Gavin Lux and one of Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, or Brusdar Graterol to get Arenado. That is with the Rockies eating none of his contract.
empirejim
Bwahahaha….. Morosi smoking the same pipe as Bridich I guess
UnknownPoster
I thought so too. Looked it up
In reality, Pads just can’t read or knows he’s full of it and that’s why he didn’t Link the article. It Just names possible guys teams would ask the dodgers about. No where does it say the expected package for Arenado, with no money, is Lux+May++ He’s just making crap up
UnknownPoster
Hahaha you fail at reading comprehension
Clearly, there’s a reason you didn’t link the article. It says NOTHING to that degree
It says Lux is a potential trade candidate after a rough 2020, which is dumb. Who trades a rookie after he had a bad year, when it’s believed he was impacted by covid?
Then it says teams will likely ask about that trio of arms. It DOES NOT say it would cost multiple names from that list to get Arenado, with no money coming back. You just fail at reading
Deleted_User
@Pads Fans where is the link to Morosi saying this? Don’t tell us to Google it like you always do across your many scokpuppet accounts. You made the claim. You provide the link.
And why do I even care? Morosi gets things wrong more often than not anyway.
OilCanLloyd
He’s not a long term fit for the Jays. The farm will be ready in 2 years to fill 3rd. Jays should package a deal for Darvish or Hendricks.
GarryHarris
COL could get more for almost anyone else on the roster.
Marius
They saved the Mariners for last, but I think they’re going to start spending again. I like this move for Seattle or Toronto.
JustMeAgain
kinda true. He’s great at Coors and a bit pedestrian elsewhere. The problem is, his road numbers don’t justify his current contract. he got his contract because Coors Field inflated his numbers.: career .322 at Coors, .263 away. 36% more HRs at Coors. Those numbers are okay, but not numbers that get you $33M/year. so the Rockies are going to have to eat a good portion of his contract if they want to trade him unless they trade him to a sucker team. But since the Mets have been sold, there’s one less of those now.
mlbdodgerfan2015
People don’t full understand the Coors effect. They only think HRs. But the reality is that Coors needs to be a large stadium to keep the balls in play. That has as much if not more impact than HRs. There is so much more space to cover in the OF. All those balls that fall in front of the OF . All those balls that get to the gap when in other parks it’s a single it’s a double or triple in Coors. Add the impact of breaking pitches not breaking as much and you can see why Coors is the best hitting park in MLB.
Troutgolfsinoctober
I can’t argue any of that. However, all the west parks are big in the national league. It’s hard to say Coors is a large park so the ball can fall in so you did not deserve that double when I don’t hear ppl say the same thing about Machado hitting a double(just an example) or any west player hitting for average. Not saying you are saying that but that’s how it comes off. I can’t argue the spin rate and hang up. I fully agree. I think it makes it harder on Colorado hitters to go on the road because of that. So it works both ways. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth or distort your argument. You are correct about a lot. I just get mad ppl act like he’s a bum away and that’s not the case. Coors hate is real.
Larry Walker has a higher ops plus than Griffey in his career and almost didn’t make the hall despite beating him in thirty points in every category in the triple slash line. I’m not comparing him to Griffey, Griff is an icon. It’s just funny Griff gets 99 percent vote on first ballot and Larry almost doesn’t get in. Why don’t we treat Larry like an icon? We know why….. That’s how real the stigma is. When he had better numbers minus the counting stats(I’m not against counting stats, I’m for them sometimes) . However, park adjusted Walker is Still the better hitter on paper. My eye tells me otherwise and Griff is always my fav player ever. Just making a point on the Coors hate. It’s ridiculous.
its_happening
Aside from a baseball buddy and I, we notice the infield seems quicker in Colorado and I wonder if the air has anything to do with the clay/diry or the grounds itself. I have no idea. We could be insane for thinking Coors has a quick infield.
The other big factor is the complaints from pitchers where offspeed pitches do not bite the same way in Colorado. If hitters see more hanging breaking pitches that spells doom for any pitcher.
UnknownPoster
That’s just not true anymore. Lad and SD play extremely small when it’s hot. Did you watch the postseason? AZ has always been a hitters park. And SF is moving fences too. Denver rounds the division
Pads Fans
The biggest effect Denver has on players is the lack of ability to recover because of the altitude. Look at players that have left the Rockies.
jajacobs2
As a Dodger fan, I do not want to see a trade for him. He is overpriced and coming off an injury. His numbers away from Colorado aren’t anything special. I’d rather trade for Bryant.
mlbdodgerfan2015
I agree. I hope the Dodgers don’t pursue him. Only way I’d do the deal as a Dodger GM is if Colorado didn’t take much in return and offered to pay a significant amount of the contract. This is a bad contract gone bad, and seems like the Rockies have limited leverage given the no trade clause.. Arenado is a good player getting elite dollars. If Ned Colletti were here I could see him getting fleeced by the Rockies but I’d hope that Friedman is much smarter.
empirejim
Arenado’s defense alone is reason to explore a trade. Colorado would have to eat some of the contract. But I dont really see Bridich trading him in division unless some GM offers a really stupid deal.
angelsfan4life
The Rockies might not have a choice but to trade him to the Dodgers. He won’t accept a trade to the Rangers or Mariners. The Angels have Rendon. I know they would prefer to send him to the AL. The Yankees are the only team who is close to winning and could afford his contract. But they want to get below the luxury tax. The Giants are like the Angels, no where near contention. So they Rockies might not have a choice but to trade him to the Dodgers.
55bums
Critical point is the no trade clause
Arena do is in complete control
Remember hearing last year he has shown an interest in playing for the Dodgers
He can dictate the deal or the Rockies are stuck for the duration
UnknownPoster
When the best fit is a division rival who’s owned you for 8 years, it’s really hard to see this working out this year
jimthegoat
I honestly don’t see anyone trading for Nolan until we get some kind of clarity on his opt-out clause
stymeedone
I honestly don’t see anyone trading for Nolan and that contract, when we don’t know how Covid will be effecting the 2021 season. It doesn’t fit well with another year of lost revenue.
AngelDiceClay
Its amazing how the Angels didn’t draft him andthe A’s 3B. Both played their HS ball in Orange County.
Troutgolfsinoctober
El toro high
dave huth
NOlan Arenado is not worth a penny. I would never want to see him leave Colorado because he would instantaneously make any other team bad. He is one of the worst headaches with the biggest contract. (Others include Harper and Machado). All of these people getting these huge contracts needs to stop because most of them end up being a bad person to have on your team. They are not worth a quarter of a billion dollars. I’m sick and tired of the bad teams signing people to long contracts. The Rockies just need to decline as a whole organization. This is pathetic.
Pads Fans
You mean Machado the MVP finalist and on the field leader of a playoff team and Harper a top 10 offensive player in the NL this season?
BlueSkies_LA
I don’t expect the Dodgers to make a major play for him, but Turner being resigned would not be a barrier. This time last year the Dodgers were planning on moving Turner to 1B if they signed Rendon. So if they did somehow end up with Arenado it would not stand in the way of bringing Turner back (which almost certainly they will no matter what else happens).
niel.marshal
Trading Arenado this year by sending prospect to Rockies and pay Arenado 35M/year sound dumb for the Dodgers. If they pay 35M/ywar for Arenado they might cant pay Corey Seager for next year. Dodgers only have about 17-18M to spent to stay below CBT threshold for next year.
2022 is interesting however for LA, they might have a lot of money to spent since Jansen (20M), Joe Kelly (8M) and Kershaw (31M) and Seager are FA
UnknownPoster
They were going to blow past it in 2020 with Price pre Covid. Lad doesn’t care about the luxury tax, as long as it’s a smart business move
niel.marshal
Yeah i know, unlike Yankee that already signalling they want to under CBT in 2021, Dodgers so upper mgmt so far didnt signalling to do that.
But still, getting Arenado and sending prospect to Rockies IMHO not really a smart move. If they really want sign an infielder who are versatile in multiple position like Kike and good at hitting like JT, they might considering DJ Lemahieu. He can hitting .290 and play multiple position, and clearly not cost 35M/year
swinging wood
Executives make long=term decisions because they don’t think they will be around to have to deal with consequences when they hit.
The Arenado extension is no different.
Jean Matrac
What we’re missing here is a sense proportionality. As a batter he is not the best, or even the second best 3B in baseball, but clearly he does not stink either. Those who think he stinks post misleading stats like home/road BA. Three quarters of the road parks for Arenado in the NL West are pitcher-friendly. OPS+ is park adjusted which makes for a much better yardstick. Here’s a list of active third basemen and their OPS+
Josh Donaldson – 136
Kris Bryant – 134
Justin Turner – 128
Anthony Rendon – 127
Matt Carpenter – 125
Jose Ramirez – 123
Manny Machado – 121.
Nolan Arenado – 120
According to the list Arenado is 8th best at the plate for his position. But for those that value defense like I do, would prefer him over over guys like Carpenter, Turner, and Rendon. Given his age some would prefer him over Turner, Carpenter, and Donaldson. At worst he’s probably 6th most valuable at 3B in MLB.
Is he worth $35M per? That’s questionable, but you could also question Machado’s $32M per, or Rendon’s $35M per. Nor is there a viable salary comparison to guys like Bryant or Ramirez. But with his combination of hitting, defense, and age he ranks well among 3B in MLB.
Koamalu
Arenado is not just one of the best hitters at his position, he is the best defensive player at his position. Overall only Rendon and Bregman have been better since 2017.
UnknownPoster
That’s such a dumb list. You’d really take Matt carpenter over Arenado going forward? And it’s not his defense I’m talking about. Sure Carpenters prime was great. But he’s far from that hitter now
Jt is 35 and unless you’re in WS or bust mode, he’s too old for 2/3 the league. KB just had an ugly year and is due 20M. Same knock
Rendon, Ramirez, Donaldson(although he’s in JT territory with age), I’ll add Chapman.. sure I’d have to consider them over Arenado, at least.
With Manny vs Arenado, i don’t want an aging Machado on a team when he’s already checked out of multiple losing seasons, in his prime. He’s going to mature now?
I put 4 guys above him, and Donaldson has the same mark as JT. So it’s 3 clear cut above him for me, with a Donaldson being team specific.
He’s a very very good player
Jean Matrac
Laughing@You:
Maybe you should have read the post before commenting. It appears all you did was look at the list, and assume that’s how I ranked them.
How can it be a dumb list when it is simply the top 8 in career OPS+ for 3B. It isn’t my ranking, it’s their stats.
If you had read the post you would see that I prefer Arenado because of his defense over Carpenter, Turner, and Rendon, Though I admit I wasn’t completely clear, I preferred Arenado over Turner, Carpenter, and Donaldson because of age. So how do you think I prefer Carpenter when I mention Arenado being superior in both defense and age? Nowhere did I say I preferred Machado over Arenado.
Admittedly Chapman should have been on the list, but he was left off because he doesn’t have enough career ABs to qualify on BB Ref.
I also defended Arenado’s salary, by pointing out that his salary is in line with other similar guys.
And, I said “at worst” he’s the sixth most value 3B in all of baseball. I also said, “But with his combination of hitting, defense, and age he ranks well among 3B in MLB.” How do you get that I don’t think he’s a very good player. Maybe next time read first, and maybe not look so foolish.
UnknownPoster
No I read it. And this post. And I still stand by my statement, that’s a dumb list for the point You’re trying to make
Cmon dude. You yourself had to qualify multiple ways, and also agree it’s missing his biggest competition
You Specifically said you would take Arenado for defense and age over carpenter. Does that not imply you prefer his offense? Especially when you list career numbers from the early 2010s as your justification, that have carpenter higher? Cool Matt’s peak was better. It’s not 2015 anymore though
You also have to eliminate 3/8 because they’re over 35 and we’re talking this year and the next 5. So 4 of 8 out the door before even looking at the side by side. HALF YOUR LIST
So yea. It’s a stat. But it’s a dumb list for your point. You claim he’s 6th or 8th just for his position, of qualified hitters. (And you threw Chapman in too when I pointed out how flawed your process was). Nice save
You CLEARLY are trying to say he’s not at the top of his position… but I would take him over everyone but Rendon and Ramirez, including contract, without much pause, if we are talking about the next 5 years
I don’t want someone who is going to play 120 games or suck. Then it’s Arenado, Machado, Ramirez, Rendon. I have him 3rd. Machado has the same stats and openly quit on his team… in 2019. And is signed till 38, vs 34 for Arenado. Pass
Are you even looking at total value?
Brac2brac
Not worth $35MM now and it won’t get better as he ages. A futher decline in batting will happen in another home park. Still a damn good player just a bad deal based on the contract.
What he’s actually worth is exactly what someone is willing to pay. Hard to believe Colorado will have the appetite to look bad and pay down the contract to a level that makes it neutral or better. I doubt Cohen is dumb enough to over pay when he has better value FA available.
I doubt a deal is done before next offseason
empirejim
Funny how you say he isnt worth $35M, and then say he’s worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Maybe should have thought that one through a bit……
pepenas34
The issue is not how good Arenado is, the issue is his contract. Once a player sings a deal like this ( NTC plus 35M per and an opt out) no matter how good he is. If teams go through NTC then the buyer won’t give elite prospects plus $$, the seller won’t pay for the player to play for other team and no elite prospects in return. Its a dead end
AngelDiceClay
Plain and simple. He will end up on the Dodgers. Not the Mets. Not the Yankees.
#1 He wants to play for the Dodgers
#2 The Dodgers have the $$$ to sign if him he isn’t traded and opts out.
#3 The Dodgers have the players to trade for him.
End of story
UnknownPoster
I think for him to end up in LA, he’s gonna have to opt out. I don’t see Col taking a Dodger package unless it’s such an overpay, lad looks dumb. And lad doesn’t make those deals
Or… he waives his opt out. If some money is eaten, maybe then I can see them matching up. But seems like it’ll take a lot for it to happen
colelovesthenats121
What the Nationals could trade for Arenado
Carter Kieboom, Prospect P Mason Denaburg and P Eddy Yeen or Max Scherzer and a low line prospect
Leave your thoughts
niel.marshal
Dodgers didnt need Arenado. If they really want a guy who can replace JT productivity and Kike Hernandez utility, they just can sign DJ Lemahieu. They guy can hit .300 and can play 2nd base or 3rd base, you know in case Gavin Lux cant hit well next year. Or they just can sign JT with lower cost and put the money to sign LHP reliever since they might non tendered Scott Alexander and already lost Jake Mcgee
OCTraveler
Dodgers have a deep system and an immediate need for an option rather than re-signing an aging Turner. Would the Rockies take Goslin, Ruiz and McKinstry for Arenado?
BlueSkies_LA
The Dodgers would be nuts to give up even one of these three for Arenado unless the Rockies were prepared to pay down his contract very substantially.
Koamalu
It would take all 3 plus to get Arenado and those are exactly who the Rockies would be asking for. Possibly Urias or Buehler instead of Gonsolin. Arenado is not going to be cheap in terms of players coming back in return because he is not a guy with just one year of team control. He would be a Dodger for the rest of the decade.
Deleted_User
Yes he only does have one year of team control. And then a 5 year $164m poison pill option that will only be exercised if his production couldn’t be replaced for less in free agency.
Pads Fans
You really think the Dodgers are stupid enough to trade for him without getting him to waive the opt out?
Deleted_User
That’s not their decision to make.
UnknownPoster
It can be easily negotiated. They will have to talk to Arenado anyways for NTC
Deleted_User
@Laughing@You if Nolan’s expected future production is at the point where he is amenable to that then the Dodgers certainly aren’t giving up all 3 of Ruiz, McKinstry and Gonsolin, Urias or Buehler for him.
UnknownPoster
“ Dodgers certainly aren’t giving up all 3 of Ruiz, McKinstry and Gonsolin, Urias or Buehler for him”
I haven’t read whole thread but in no way did I suggest hes worth anything close to these total packages. At all. Gonsolin-level talent(so Gray maybe?) would be “the division tax” price and Ruiz is the more likely “Rest of MLB price”. McKinstry type players are inconsequential compared to the others you listed.
This all assumes he waived opt out
Rockies may like a Gonsolin/McKinstry, or Ruiz/McK, but anything more, there’s no way another team is offering similar value to force the dodgers to pay that. They’ll say no and sign him when he opts out
Deleted_User
@Laughing@You It was the man of 247 usernames Koamalu himself who said Nolan was worth that package, not you. But then you suggested that the Dodgers could get Nolan to waive his opt out. If Nolan were worth anything close to that kind of a package in trade then he would not be amenable to waiving the opt out.
UnknownPoster
You act like waiving an opt out is something that’s never been done. He can simply opt into 2021 when the trade is official
In my scenario, Arenado wants to be in LA long term. Maybe he gets some money for opting in, maybe he just wants to facilitate the trade
In that case, the dodgers are trading for 5 years of 29-34 for Arenado. Wouldn’t shock me if Rockies are throwing money in, like Stanton. But at that point, a Ruiz or Gonsolin+ a complimentary piece is plausible imo… but they doesn’t mean I agree with whatever package that guy threw out.
If he’s not opting in as part of the trade, there’s no way he gets Gonsolin or Ruiz or a similar player
Deleted_User
I’m not saying it’s never been done. But if he is so valuable at his current price point that the Dodgers are willing to give up those kinds of players for his current contract, then that means he’d be worth a lot more in FA than his current contract. Ergo, he’s not waiving the opt-out in the situation you describe.
UnknownPoster
What’s the confusing part? Not trying to be a jerk, just think we are looking at this differently. He’s making market rate at AAV, 35. Rendon is at 36
The opt out was his way to ensure Col was competitive. Or, if they did what they did, sign him then go cheap… he could leave
So he’s getting the prize of the opt out, by leaving. He’s making 35M a year. Could he maybe get 2 more years next year? Maybe, but he *has* to be a top 10 player. That’s a lot of pressure
If his 2020 was great, this is a different convo. But now he has to prove 2020 was a fluke, not just stay on his career norms
so why not accept 200M, with a chance at a honeymoon contract at 34, while going to the team you’ve been quoted as saying you want to go to?
Again to me anyways, the opt out is less about improving his AAV and more about calling Col’s negotiating bluff
Deleted_User
Like I said, despite all the hooplah people like to make on here about a player opting out if his team isn’t putting a competitive product on the field, only one player has ever done that IIRC. That was AJ Burnett with the Phillies after 2014.
UnknownPoster
Sure, but most players aren’t this vocal against ownership, claiming they went back on their word, he doesn’t trust them etc
If he opts out, it’s not for chasing the highest dollar imo, it’s him wanting out of COl and believing he will get a similar AAV in the market
Both team and player are trying to call each other’s bluff
Deleted_User
Well if all that were true the Dodgers would have no reason to sweeten the pot to get him to waive the opt out. Nor would they have any reason to give up any of Gonsolin, Urias or Buehler.
Pads Fans
Most fans are hilarious in how little they think they would have to give up in players to get an elite talent. Arenado is top 3 or 4 in baseball at 3B. You want that kind of talent, you are going to give up talent to get him regardless of his salary. He is that good. He has averaged over 6 WAR from 2017-2019. Close to $50 million in FA value per season. Even in a down year for him in 2020, he was worth more than Gonsolin, Urias or Buehler.
Deleted_User
The Dodgers are not trading Gonsolin, Urias or Buehler let alone more for a rental. And Arenado is worse than a rental because if he opts in it means his production could have been had in free agency for less.
BlueSkies_LA
His contract has no excess value, more like negative value. In fact baseballtradevalues estimates his contract is worth -$43.7M. The Rockies would have to write it down by that much just to zero it out and by more to get anything back of significance.
MoRivera 1999
BlueSkies_LA: is that contract valuation based on 2020 performance? If so then I have to say it’s dubious. I mean I don’t think anyone is putting too much weight on poor 2020 results unless they are continuing a previously established trend, like, say, Bryant. I’m not saying the -$47.3MM figure is off the wall, I’m just saying I look at it differently if it’s based on 2020. Do you know?
BlueSkies_LA
I don’t think so. I haven’t read up on it recently but they have their own methodology that tries to capture a player’s likely value if he was on the market today, which should involve more than last year, and also the current market for free agents. Not bulletproof by any means but it does provide a starting point for a discussion. I don’t think their number is at all unreasonable, just by using Betts as a benchmark. If Arenado was a free agent today, would he command more than Betts? I doubt it. So if they’re saying the out years of Arenado’s contract would have to be discounted to around $25M/year to move it, and a little off the top for 2021, then that sounds about right to me.
Pads Fans
Jon Paul Morosi said that it would take Lux and one of May, Gonsolin, or Graterol plus another prospect to get a trade done.
empirejim
@ Koamalu Arenado is EXACTLY a guy with ONE year of control. He has the opt out after ’21, so there goes your team control argument. And ANY GM that deals an inexpensive ACE for a very expensive defensive guru that hits some wont be a GM for long.
Bottom line, it’s all about leverage and the Rockies dont have it, the buyer does.
Vizionaire
Thang god the angels are not one of the candidates!
empirejim
Dont sell Arte short, he’s been known to make deals no sane GM would consider….
jpritch002
I’m a Jays fan and would love to see a trade happen between the Rockies and Jays
I think the Rockies could get Woods-Richardson, Grichuk, Tellez and maybe someone like TJ Zeuch? That would be a decent package for him… it would certainly be more than what the Red Sox got for Millie last offseason
Murphy NFLD
As a jays fan that seems light. Look at my suggestion and let me know your thoughts
Koamalu
Arenado to the Dodgers for Gonsolin or Buehler, Ruiz, Amaya or McKinstry, and a player to be named later or Intl FA money.
Deleted_User
Arenado for Gonsolin or Buehler? Oh god PF. The Dodgers aren’t giving up either of those guys let alone more for a guy who is essentially a one year rental, since all the surplus value from Nolan’s contract comes in 2021. If he doesn’t opt out, then whichever team he is on is going to be wishing that he was a rental.
BlueSkies_LA
Where are you finding surplus value for him in 2021? He’s owed $35M next year.
This is the problem with his contract. He has no surplus value for next year, and after that, it gets even worse.
Deleted_User
@BlueSkies_LA you missed the point of my comment. Whether or not Nolan will provide surplus value on his contract in 2021 is debatable. But he has an opt-out after that which means he is guaranteed to not provide surplus value on all the years after that because he’s only opting in if his contract is underwater after 2021. So the only year the acquiring team even has a chance to get any surplus value out of the contract is 2021.
UnknownPoster
@LH, That’s a flawed way to look at the opt in, Assuming he’s doing it as part of the trade
Because he’s not deciding if he thinks he can get more money on the market… He’s trying to get a trade done. It’s not like JD Martinez waiting till his opt out is due and staying, because the market was weak. Arenado is doing it to facilitate the trade, now. No matter how his 2021 plays out
BlueSkies_LA
I understood what you said then and now, and I agree the out years are all risk and little potential for reward. My point is it’s hard to find excess value at $35M for next year. It would be difficult to find excess value for any player at that price tag. Just for perspective Betts isn’t getting paid that much and he’s one of the best players in the game today.
Deleted_User
@Laughing@You like I said, if he is worth those kinds of players in trade, why would he want to waive the opt out? People always talk about a player opting out based on whether or not he likes where he is but the only instance I can think of of that actually happening is AJ Burnett with the Phillies. All the others based their decisions only on whether they thought they could do better as FA.
Deleted_User
@BlueSkies_LA well if that is the case (and I’m not saying it isn’t) the Dodgers certainly aren’t giving up Buehler or Gonsolin to pay Nolan all that money in 2021.
BlueSkies_LA
This has been my point all along. The Rockies would have to come up with $40-50M just to move his contract and get nothing of significance back. Some of that cash could go to paying his salary in the out years and they could hope and pray he has a great 2021 and opts out.
Deleted_User
@BlueSkies_LA if the GM’s view Nolan and his contract the way you do he’s not opting out under any circumstances. Yes, even if he has a great 2021.
UnknownPoster
@blue, Col is in a bad spot. They both fear he doesn’t opt out, 200M reasons why, and yet don’t want him to just opt out and leave for nothing
So imo they’d be more open to paying money for his trade and getting talent back, then letting him walk in 2021. Maybe I’m wrong
BlueSkies_LA
That could well be true. It’s difficult for me to imagine a scenario where he could squeeze much if any more value out of the market unless he had a banner season and he figured somebody would be willing to give him another year or two.
Deleted_User
And in that scenario the opt out is terrible for the team because they lose a positive value asset.
BlueSkies_LA
That’s what I am saying. The Rockies would have to come up with some serious scratch just to move him and even more to get back more than a warm body or two. It’s the commenters who think a team is going to send the Rockies a premium player or prospect (or several) straight up that have me wondering what they are thinking.
UnknownPoster
I said it somewhere else, but I truly believe arenado would have stayed if Col had tried to build a winner in 20+21. I think he’s happy with his contract, not his team
I also believe at this point, he feels lied to and wants to leave, in any way. In all honesty, I believe he *wants* to be traded to a place he’d be comfortable opting into. Aka, he knows they’re gonna compete every year. La is clearly on that list
I don’t think he’d be opting out to chase the dollar. He’d be opting out if Col doesn’t trade him (maybe he has a list too, i can’t say)
And would you really want to go into next years FA, Btwn 5 superstar infielders and covid still looming? Again, imo, that’s last resort for Arenado
Now, From LA’s side, they aren’t going to give up anything of Significant value unless they know they’re getting Arenado thru 2026. So he agrees to waive NTC+ opt in, well LA is now getting 6 years of him. They would be more willing to deal something worth the Rockies while.
For Col, I don’t think they get anything of value unless Arenado agrees to opt in to 2022+beyond AND they kick in money. Look at Stanton. It’s real hard to trade these mega deals without kicking money in.
All opinion from me, but let me end with.. lots has to happen for Anreado to LA to really be on the table, and I don’t think the chances are very high. Imo, the above is one of the few ways LA deals value to a division rival while taking a large deal back
UnknownPoster
@legend
Again, To me, it all depends on the trade
La wants 6 years of Arenado, not 1. They want him to opt in. But, they likely don’t deal if he won’t
So I disagree that the opt out is terrible for the team, if it’s torn up. La wants it torn up
Now, if la trades for Arenado, leaves the opt out in tact and gives up player value. Completely agree with what you’re saying. But I’m not expecting them to do that, nor have I said they will
Deleted_User
@Laughing if Nolan’s value is high enough that the Dodgers trade value for him he’s not waiving the opt-out. Regardless of whether he thinks the Dodgers are a winning organization. Players only waive the opt-out if they don’t think they will be able to beat the remaining money on their contract. If the Dodgers are trading that kind of value for him with that contract then that means they (and likely other teams) would be willing to pay him even more as a FA.
Deleted_User
The only reason LA would want the opt-out torn up is if Nolan has good reason to not allow that. And vice versa. You never see a player opting in because they already like where they are if they are clearly worth more $ than that.
jimthegoat
Yeah, all of this is a perfect example of why I said above that I don’t think Nolan gets traded until we get some kind of clarity on the opt-out. He has no reason to waive it now with a whole season left to play before his opt-out date but no team is going to trade for him when they have no idea which version of him they are going to get.
Pads Fans
6 WAR = $48 million. From 2017-2019 Arenado averaged 6.4 WAR. No reason to think he will not rebound from the injury in 2020 to repeat that level of play for a couple more years.
Pads Fans
So what you are trying to say is that the Dodgers are not smart enough to make waiving his opt out a condition of a trade? If he wants out of Colorado as the media is saying, then he will waive his opt out.
Pads Fans
Jon Paul Morosi said today that it would take Gavin Lux and one of Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, or Brusdar Graterol, plus a third prospect like Mitch White to get Arenado. He said that would include no money coming from the Rockies and that the Rockies could get a better return if they included money. He also mentioned that Arenado may ask for something in order to waive his NTC and opt out.
jimthegoat
The Dodgers can try to do that. And any team that trades for him should do that. But if Arenado is worth the package you are suggesting even with all the money he is making, it stands to reason that he could do better as a free agent or leverage the opt-out into an extension like Justin Upton. So no, he would not waive his opt out. Players and teams don’t give away leverage just for funsies.
Pads Fans
Today Morosi said it would take Lux and one of May, Gonsolin, or Graterol plus another prospect for the Dodgers to get Arenado.
rumors171
A perfect fit for the Red Sox. They should trade JD Martinez for Nolan Arenado
stubby66
GOING TO THE BREWERS MARK IT !!!!
Pads Fans
Padres, Cubs, Braves, Mariners, and Yankees are huge longshots to trade for Arenado. While the Blue Jays have the money, they have good young player at 3B in Vlad Jr.
The Giants and Dodgers seem the best fits. Big market teams with the money to take on Arenado’s contract and a need at 3B.
As the article says, the Giants have a relatively expensive contract that they could offload to the Rockies, but they really don’t have the top notch MLB ready players and prospects that fit the Rockies needs.
That leaves the Dodgers.. So what would it take for the Dodgers to acquire Arenado? More than Dodger’s fans think. More than it took to get Goldschmidt. Its going to hurt to get Arenado. A great young MLB starting pitcher, a MLB ready infielder, and at least one more good prospect. More if the Dodgers ask for money to offset Arenado’s contract.
The Dodgers have 4 good young starters that fit the bill. Buehler, Gonsolin, Urias, and May. One of them would have to headline the deal. The Rockies also have a deep hole at catcher, so adding a catching prospect to the deal makes sense.
ericl
There is no way the Dodgers trade Buehler for Arenado.
BlueSkies_LA
The suggestion would be funny if it wasn’t so completely ridiculous.
UnknownPoster
I laughed. Gotta live up to the name. It was hilariously awful
UnknownPoster
Hahahahaha wow
This is true if Arenado has 2 arbitration years left.
NO ONE is paying *anything* close to that. Having that fat of a contract is a HUGE depression on his value. They’ll be lucky to get a Kiebert Ruiz atm. Did you read the article? Who’s forcing the dodgers to pay that ludicrous price?
pepenas34
Pads, you first tell us how narrow the market is, if you add the NTC it will leave 1 or 2 teams (just like Stanton), but then you implied Dodgers are going to over pay ? doesn’t make any sense. Dodgers can and should sing Turner for 3 years at the cost of one Arenado*s year.
Pads Fans
Overpay? Nope. Market value for a 6+ WAR player? Yup. I never implied anything,
Pads Fans
Morosi said today that if they want Arenado, the Dodgers would have to give up Lux, one of May, Gonsolin, or Graterol, and a third prospect like Mitch White.
Apparently I am not the only one that thinks that it would take a huge haul to get Arenado.
UnknownPoster
Oh boy, so if someone has a dumb opinion, that makes yours better?
There’s zero way anyone pays that. Please, tell me what other team is forcing the Dodgers to pay this price, with a similar offer?
Congrats, you clicked on Morosi’s click bait and you bought it. Unless you can name multiple teams coming in with a top 5 MLB prospect and a former top 20-in the sport prospect who performed in his first season… it ain’t happening
ray714
Ruiz, White , and Peters/Pages is more than enough even with Dodgers getting money back.. maybe add in another mid level bat like De Jesus/ Estevez .
Murphy NFLD
Nolan and 36 mil to the jays for
Grichuk
Groshans
Kirk/Moreno/Jansen
Kloffenstien/Manoah
Thornton/Borucki
Colorado gets 4 peices and Grich Thornton or Borucki step into rotation right away and have a years worth of experience starting. A young high potential catcher. 2 top 100 prospects one a pitcher and one his replacement. The jays get Nolan at about 21 mil a year after the salary off set from Grich and the 36 mil
Murphy NFLD
I feel this is pretty well the deal they will be looking at. A couple small pieces either may be added to. This is contingent on Nolan agreeing not to opt out.
I also believe this is about what the Lindor offer would be aswell
gson
w/r to the “…Lindor as well..”
Very different situation in Cleveland.. the pandemic had a much more drastic effect on the Indians than most of the other MLB franchises. The Indians would not be able to take on the Grichuk salary in a deal.. They wouldnt be inclined to acquire the pitchers in the deal, but wouldn’t refuse one of them. The pitching depth is very deep in Cleveland.. What is lacking are position players.. Your deal could be modified as:
-Indians get Jordan Groshans SS/3B, Dan Jansen C, Alek Manoah SP and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. OF’er
-Jays get Francisco Lindor SS and either Tyler Naquin OF or Logan Allen SP.
The addition of an OF’er Naquin or SP Allen is for roster balance. While this isn’t necessary for the deal, Shapkins has made their careers on selecting / getting that extra guy in trades that turn into the best part of the deal. Naquin is now fully recovered from his knee and should provide his average season of .275/.325/.440 with 15 -25 HR’s, 80 RBi’s.. Allen could be a better SP in Toronto as he would benefit from pitching against the LH heavy NYY’s and Red Sox… He won’t get much of a chance in Cleveland..
Thoughts?
its_happening
It won’t take that much to get Arenado. Not with the looming opt out and not with the lack of leverage the Rockies have. Take Groshans out and there’s still enough there.
James1955
The Rockies Owner does not want to trade Arenado. No team is going to give up the top prospects and take on his contract to get him. Keep dreaming about a trade.
tesseract
“There isn’t much of a market for Arenado out there…” then proceeds to list nearly half of the league. He’ll probably go to the Mets and then MLBTR will say how they correctly predicted this move.
55bums
Arenado has control via the no trade clause
He wants to be a Dodger and the Dodgers want him
Getting him assures Seager that he stays at SS if he wants to be Lifetime Dodger
Arenado’s glove is a step in the right direction for the Dodgers and if he hits .275 with 20-25 HR’s and 75+ RBI he’s an overall better 3B for the Dodgers
For all these reasons plus he gets to a sure contender every year and he gets go home for the rest of his career; a trade makes too much sense
Plus, he can say no to any other move no matter what other teams offer
bot
200 some comments and no love for the Padres ?? They are a perfect fit !
Hosmer to offset costs and weathers as the prospect- highly unlikely Rockies will ever do better than that return.
If Padres can get him to waive just the first opt out- to secure 2 years minimum service- they should be all over it too ! Best move Padres can make to keep step w LA
its_happening
Perfect fit? They have Machado.
thegamedr
And Tatis Jr in SS
Deleted_User
Only for four more years
thegamedr
I believe Arenado’s splits should also factor in greatly. He’s a hitting machine in Colorado but a much more “regular” hitter elsewhere.
Definitely not worth all that money. NO way he opts out of all that money left with the expected performance outside Colorado. The team that gets him will be stuck with the Contract.
BKS1110
It is profoundly confusing how someone can sign a contract for a bazillion dollars with a poverty franchise that routinely makes bad moves and goes nowhere, and then act shocked and angry when that franchise continues to make bad moves and go nowhere. I mean what was this guy expecting to happen?
Spare Tire Dixon
At this point, the Rockies would probably be lucky if Nolan just opted out and they had a clean break from his deal. Any trade is likely to involve them paying some of his contract or taking on bad money in exchange.
Just beg the guy to opt out, take your comp pick, then shift gears to prospect mining through a Trevor Story and/or Charlie Blackmon trade(s).
Deleted_User
Nope. A team is never lucky if a player opts out. Unless he ends up signing for less money than he opted out of (like AJ Burnett). If he signs for more than he opted out of, then even if they wanted to get rid of him then they could have at least traded him for prospects if he didn’t have an opt out.
Spare Tire Dixon
If the Mets want to make a big splash trade just for the sake of it, they should just go for Lindor and work out an extension. Arenado’s deal is huge, even if he does turn it around and get back to hitting well. Love Nolan as a player, but not that deal. The Mets would be better served spending that kind of cash to address multiple areas of need.
solaris602
Arenado is on par with Trout in terms of annual salary, but definitely not in terms of performance. Nobody has to dissect Trout’s numbers to try and justify his contract, but when you break everything down for Arenado, the guy just isn’t a $35M/yr player, and for that reason I’d pass on him even if the return was a couple iffy prospects.
Jean Matrac
Comparing a 3B to OF isn’t the best way to make a point. Especially when one is considered the best player in baseball and whose contract was for $430M and the other who is just very, very good, and whose contract was for $230M.
Compare Arenado with Rendon and Machado. All play 3B, all are close to the same age, and all have similar stats. All 3 are making close to the same salary. IMO Arenado’s salary is right in line with how MLB values other similar players.
Pads Fans
If you break down the numbers Arenado is a 6+ WAR player so worth close to $50 million per season.
Matt_Angel_Bronco_Laker
IMO, Arrenado and Lindor trades have the Mets name all over it. I don’t believe, even trading for both, would completely rake the farm system considering they’re both potential free agents in 2022.
Stars appear to be aligning for the Mets to make incredible splashes this off-season.
Robert C
The ownership group of the Cardinals is always talking about profit but they do little to insure it. They keep putting a team on the field that is just good enough to be competitive and garner fan interest and hope but not good enough to get over the top or be elite. Any good businessman knows you have to spend money to make money. Cardinal fans are loyal enough to make the team profitable if management would make the moves to make the team elite. Watching the Cardinals the past few years has been like going to McDonalds when they have contests: the meal fills you up but has little nutritional value but you keep going because the possibility of winning a prize keeps you coming back even if the odds are not in your favor. McDonalds writes of the prizes as advertising, increases their profit and the chance of winning the big prize has to wait until the next contest. In other words, you get filled with baseball but necer get the big prize.
eddiemathews
Easy! Arenado for Bryant!
thomasg1951
Correa will be gone after 2021. It’s all about the money.
abcrazy4dodgers
Meh on disrespecting Turner by trading for Arrenado. He can still be signed for 2 years, first year playing 1B/2B with Muncie, and then of course slim possibility of UDH. 2nd year of pact, the valuable Freese/Utley role.
doxiedevil
For once I’m glad the Braves are cheap skates or they would probably trade off to much talent for Arrenado.
bravesfan
Would love my Braves to make a splash and go get him, even though I think Riley is a future superstar. (I overvalue him and think he has so much freaking potential, I don’t care…). I don’t see the Braves taking a shot at him though. Cost a lot in both cash and prospect capital and it’s ultimately prob not worth it
mikecws91
The White Sox could theoretically trade for Arenado, move Moncada back to second, and trade Madrigal to upgrade elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don’t think they’re that creative.
davidkaner
I love it when capitalism only matters if a CEO is making 100 million. The “worth” of any player or CEO is what the market says it is. Stop complaining about salaries because you aren’t paying it.
Stevil
Though there are no guarantees in baseball, it’s a pretty safe be Seattle won’t bite.
ray714
Dodgers should just go and get him if he agrees to cancel out the opt out. Dodgers have the $$ flexibility to get him and can afford to send 1 good and few decent prospects for him.
rumors171
I see a match with the Red Sox who can trade JD Martinez even up for Nolan Arenado. The Rockies would save $160M.
joefriday1948
The Rockies are the role model for poor trades, failed management and an inept but caring and generous owner in Dick Monfort. No other team, including the Tigers, have celebrated if not precipitated failure better than the Rockies. Another losing season followed by less than qualified replacements. Competent executives are needed. Please