The Nationals’ recent interest in Kris Bryant isn’t the first time Washington has explored trading for the former NL MVP, as the Nats and Cubs held some discussions just last offseason. Victor Robles was known to be of interest to Chicago in a potential Bryant trade, and Jesse Dougherty of the Washington Post adds that held firm in keeping not only Robles, but also Juan Soto, Trea Turner, and pitching prospect Jackson Rutledge during negotiations with the Cubs.
Needless to say, there was zero chance Soto, Turner, or probably even Robles were being moved for Bryant last offseason, and this quartet will continue to be off the table in any trade talks this winter. Rutledge (the 17th overall pick of the 2019 draft and ranked by MLB.com as Washington’s top prospect) could have made some sense as a trade chip when Bryant was coming off an impressive 2019 campaign and had two years of team control remaining. Now, however, Bryant is just a year away from free agency and is looking to rebound from an injury-plagued 2020 season. As Dougherty notes, the Nationals or any other team might not have to give up much or any major prospect capital to land Bryant, if the Cubs’ chief intent is just to get Bryant’s projected $18.6MM salary off their books.
More from the NL East…
- The Phillies lost $145MM during the 2020 season, a source tells The Associated Press. It’s safe to assume that every team took a sizeable hit, though the exact numbers for almost every team will likely never be fully known. (The Braves, as part of the publicly-traded Liberty Media Corporation, are an exception.) Phillies managing partner John Middleton has stated that the revenue losses will have some impact on the team’s offseason plans, but it remains to be seen if that means the Phillies simply won’t splurge as they have in recent offseasons, or if it could mean a much quieter winter. The latter option would make things very difficult for a Phillies roster that has a lot of needs to address.
- After a tough 2020 season, Mets left-hander Steven Matz has been mentioned as a possible non-tender candidate, as New York might prefer to seek out other rotation options rather than pay Matz a projected $5.1MM arbitration salary. However, Newsday’s Tim Healey (Twitter links) doesn’t think the team’s decision is that hard, as Healey would “be surprised if [Matz] doesn’t get tendered a contract.” Matz posted solid numbers as a starter in three of the previous four seasons heading into 2020, but he lost his rotation job during an injury-shortened season that saw him post an ugly 9.68 ERA and surrender 14 home runs over only 30 2/3 innings. Retaining Matz would give New York some added rotation depth while they wait for Noah Syndergaard to return from Tommy John surgery, though the Mets are expected to be active in seeking out free agents, including pitchers. The rotation already got a boost when Marcus Stroman accepted the Mets’ one-year, $18.9MM qualifying offer.
Matz is too fragile to be a starter. He has never held up. He should be moved to the bullpen. He has the stuff to be a very effective reliever, and would benefit from the lighter workload.
The guy is going to be 30 next year. He is what he is…another overrated Mets pitcher that didn’t live up to the hype.
As opposed to all of those Marlins studs who completely lived up to the hype, which has lead them to have one season above .500 since 2010, and it was this past COVID-shortened, crazy season. Congrats on all of their success.
We don’t have our players hyped up like the Mets make sure that everyone hears how great their mediocre players are.
And congrats to the Mets success…1986!
Who’s got the longest championship[ drought in the NL East?
Mets were in the WS just 5 years ago…only Washington has gone that far since then.
Guys, guys….the Mets and Marlins both suck.
Heh
Ha!
Sorry Mets don’t suck. The last time the year actually counted they won 86 games in the toughest division to play (at the time) Mets have around 70 mil to spend this year. I don’t know who will be on the roster come opening day but the roster won’t suck. Marlins on the other hand? Let’s just say LOL.
C’mon, it was funny
The arrival of Jeter changed the culture and MO of the Fish. this past season [I believe] is a better indication of where the Marlins are than the previous time. The organization had gone through the same thing the Washington football team went through. Frequent changes to management, coaches, players front office, and plans and goals that shape a team.
Jeter was definitely a stabilizing force for the organization that allowed them to start developing their prospect in a consistent and organized way. this season we really saw the results.
Mets are a joke and everyone knows it
Yeah but they’ll always remember our championships. Who the hell remembers anything about yours?
Mets and Marlins will both suck in 2021 unless the Mets really sign some plays instead of talk about how great they will be. Action says more than hype, Marlins will more than likely finish last in 2021.
I don’t recall many marlins pitchers with hype……. a bunch of guys I forget about?
Baseball pun…. your unbelievable my guy! I loved it.
Marlins on way up, Mets treading water
It was funny. Break up a somewhat agitated argument with comedic flair. That’s my style too. Love it.
I promise you the Mets will not suck. People who believe that either say it just bc they like to make fun of Mets or can’t really evaluate talent.
Uh huh, and you base that on what?
They are too busy hyping outfielders like Lewis Brinson Jr and Sierra.
The Mets were in the AL East?
The al East is horrible. 3 horrible teams at the bottom. What you think yanks winning 100 bc they are that good? Lol
@Metsfan22
Lots of homers on MLBTR (logically so) and you’re one of them. Folks calling you out for being an inept baseball fan not just a low sklled fanboy.
We all get the current situation – NYM’s long suffering fanbase finally has an owner who might take the team to greener pastures. They’re still a middle of the pack team till results accrue.
Denigrating a small market team that’s made good progress in rebuilding is childish. Calling NYY’s results ‘fortunate’ is stupid and some immature manifestation of jealousy IMO.
The NYM Fans should only hope that Super Steve is able to blend NYY big market acumen with Miami’s small market pragmatism.
Smart NY fans want both teams to prosper and relish the idea of another subway series especially in the couple seasons while Degrom is still dominant. Unfortunately laddie you’re closer to a basement dweller than a smart NY baseball fan
bwahahaha nice!!!@baseballpun 🙂
They won 86 games the year before.
Does Florida ever hype, or even promote, any of their teams? Do any of their teams have a fan base outside of Florida?
I’d be willing to bet, given the fact that Florida has such a huge influx of residents from other parts of the country, that there as many or more fans of OTHER teams, especially those from the northeast like Philadelphia and NY.
Except players aren’t lining up to join the Marlins via agency. No hitter signs a big, long term, free agent contract to spend his best years playing for the Marlins? It seems to me that the good players the actually develop can’t wait to get out of there the first chance they get.
As a very long time Mets’ fan, I just hope they stop acting like they are a small market team, filling their major league roster from other teams’ scrap heaps.
He was over hyped for valid, even if partially local reasons. From LI.. The doubles, his grampa, perhaps overachieving early on… I get why he’s a guy folks are slow to give up on. I’d move him to the pen, make him the spot-starter but I’d have a short leash even with that.
Matz had a magical debut and, at times, has looked like a pitcher. The problem is that if you have watched him pitch the passed 2+ seasons, his decline has been easily predicted.
No command of any of his pitches and he simply cannot throw his secondary pitches for strikes at all. If it’s obvious to casual fans, I’m sure other teams’ coaches see the trends too. Lay off anything that’s not a fastball and swing from your heels three times on his straight 95mph fastball.
It’s pretty simple. The league knows what he can and cannot do and he has failed to develop a counter attack.
Tell me about it.
– J DeGrom
He is the only bad Mets pitcher the rest lived up. This isn’t the marlins were every hitter they seem to bring up is a bust.
Stanton, Cabrera, Yelch, Osuna, Ramirez…
Mets are an average team with a few standout players, DeGrom and McNeil. The rest of their team has either been mediocre or painfully inconsistent throughout their career.
Lol the fact that you believe this is funny. Alonso smith Nimmo Davis conforto stroman syndergaard Peterson gimenez Diaz Wilson lugo ????
Even Matz had his dominant stretches. his Problem was consistency
Dark Knight flamed out after the hype.
MetsFan22, you are the absolute worst homer on here. You massively overvalue every player. The Mets are the very definition of mediocre.
Hmmmmmm I’d stack the Mets lineup easily against your Braves lineup and day that they are fairly equal. So in that regard the Braves players are also overvalued?
Seems like Braves are the team to beat for playoff spot not Mets!!
The Mets absolutely do suck, a team loaded with mediocrity outside of DeGrom and McNeil. This is still a last place roster until proven otherwise, quit being a delusional homer and learn to understand the facts.
Conforto, Nimmo, Smith, Alonso… tons of talent on the Mets…. also tons of holes to fill. But no shortage of very good to great players. A lot of work to be done , though. Being a homer who can’t see the flaws on their own team isn’t as annoying as being a cross town rival who hates on the Mets for the sake of it.
Is he wrong? Stroman, Syndergaard, Davis, Alonso, Smith, and Diaz have been inconsistent.
Bellinger Buehler seager jansen have been inconsistent
The Braves do a great job addressing their roster needs, developing their minor leaguers and putting their players in the best situations to succeed.
In the past what impressed me the most, is knowing who to trade away and how to build a market for the guys they intend to deal away.
Yes, year in and year out, the Braves are contenders.
@metsfann22
Very true- those LAD players have not consistently won the WS after getting there. Ask mom to send more ovaltine down to you
Those inconsistent guys also just won a world series
Maybe…but they won.
deGrom has been a stud… Syndergaard has been a strikeout machine… Wheeler turned out to be an excellent pitcher with his sub 3 ERA… Harvey had 5 great seasons, including the postseason when he carried the Mets to the World Series… And outside of this past season Matz has been league average. Matz was never hyped to become an ace. You, sir, don’t seem to understand baseball much.
Harvey 5 great seasons? You better check your stats. I don’t think he even played in 2014. After 2015, he was lousy. He only had 36 big league starts before 2015.
Saying Harvey had 5 great seasons and then commenting that someone else “doesn’t seem to understand baseball much”? Ok
And I’ll take the Braves lineup over the Mets lineup any day of the week
3 great seasons. Also he did live up to the hype. He did bad bc of a horrible injury… he was everything they hyped him up to be
Mets lineup is deeper. Braves last year had years from TDA and Duvall they won’t get again. Mets lineup also had better advanced stats last year. I’d take Mets
That’s insanity. You can have all the advanced stats you want, but the Mets simply did not score. 60 games is long enough to be telling. The offense has issues. Also, the Mets are losing Cano who was the 3rd best hitter of the season.
Now after the Mets sign Realmuto and a few others, then maybe I’ll agree with you, but as it stands the Mets are the 4th best offense in the division. Actually I’ll give them 3rd because the Phillies are losing two key bats.
3 great seasons? Try again
@joey Syndergaard has been injured in 2020, won’t start the 2021 season in the rotation, and had a 4.28 ERA in 2019. Mets had 7 pitchers make 4 or more starts and 5 of those 7 had an ERA north of 5.00. They are not a team ready to win a pennant.
@metsfan22 Harvey had 2 good seasons, 2013 and 2015 and in neither of those did he make 30+ starts. Without putting up 30+ starts its really hard to say it was a great season. He just didn’t make enough starts. In 6 seasons as a Met he had 104 starts. That is really bad. He just couldn’t stay healthy so he did not live up the the hype of being an Ace.
He still flamed out.
They have major holes and poor construction. But the division is pretty weak, in that the Phillies are also poorly constructed and the Marlins are not fully cooked yet. (They just may be a couple years away from beginning a dynasty). Atlanta seems good. Washington I can’t really tell. But the Mets have a lower payroll than expected and thus can spend(not that spending equals success). They can, with the right moves, contend. And anyone who contends has a shot at the pennant.
I think Harvey’s downfall was his own ego. I’ll never forget when he refused, against his own manager, to come out of that big post season game and they ended up losing.
Unlike Bartolo Colon, Harvey just hasn’t figured out HOW to be a pitcher.
I wish that were likely but I’m concerned that Matz’s injury history and psychological makeup, for lack of a better phrase, make him dependent upon both a very regular routine, probably not possible as a reliever, and a long warm-up process, also not conducive to the pen. I hope he can adapt, but I’m concerned that his stuff which was vulnerable to first inning problems over the past few years, won’t translate. His problem does not seem to be needing to drop and third or fourth best pitch or to avoid a second or third time through the lineup. He just doesn’t execute his pitches. He’s not all in on the plan that he and the catcher and the pitching coach and analytics department developed. He can’t consistently get even his best pitches to move and locate as he wants. He gets rattled by mistakes, both his and others’. Perhaps less pressure in the pen will help. Or, perhaps he needs to find the right coach or needs to pitch further from home, which may mean a change of scenery.
Marcfrombrooklyn, your assessment is spot on!! To anyone who watches, everything you stated is blatantly obvious. Well worded on your part!
Matz Isn’t FRAGILE…
He Made ALL HIS STARTS IN
2018 & 2019
The way I see the Mets is they could break out any given year. It might not be sustainable but it could happen, like 2015.
I think Marlins are trending in the right direction. They are underrated and will be a force in that division.
Maybe the Mets team rn. But the Mets team that will be playing opening day shouldn’t be viewed like that
Matz is fragile from the collar up. He is always beating himself up, looking over his shoulder and seemingly never has any kind of bulldog in him. It’s almost as though he’s shell shocked every start. It’s been that way for almost three years.
There is a new kind of reliever coming to the fore on successful bullpens. The swing man is the thing now. The Dodgers have had a bevy of swing men move through the pen, several of whom have found extended stints in the rotation. These guys tend to be shutdown pitchers for up to about three innings [on a good day] and through enough pitches that spot starts con go 5 or six without much risk of implosion .
Note the swing man and long reliever are similar roles. but the swing man has to be able to handle high leverage innings and is more likely to pitch deep in a game he is called on to start.. I personally like this development because it starts to value other elements of the pen as highly [or at least close] as the closer/set up man roles
Yea…just like deGrom
Soto or Turner were definitely not going to be traded for Bryant. I’m not sure Robles is much of an upgrade over Almora for the Cubs
with the age of the staff i don’t see Rutledge going either. The only way Robles goes is if the Nats sign another CF type fo impact OF.
Agreed.
KB will be FA soon.
Cubs get 0 for him.
If they pay Bryant his $18M in arbitration this year then the Cubs will most likely issue him a QO next year unless he completely implodes in the ‘full’ 2021 season (which is not out of the question). Hopefully he does enough in 2021 to warrant a team signing him to multi-year FA contract in 2022. This way, the Cubs will at least net a high draft pick by losing him to free agency. This would be much better than losing him for nothing.
Dudes a troll. Don’t listen to him.
Can you please elaborate why Cyril (Dorothy) is a troll everything he is saying makes sense.
He’s referring to chi_sox fan as the troll, not Dorothy.
I think health will have as much to do with his future salary as his production this season. If he does not appear durable in his walk year the length of contract will also suffer
They’re not 145 mm in the red, they just didn’t make as much as last year. Completely overblown
When a team says it lost $145M, they don’t mean they brought in $145M less than the previous year. It means that the team showed a loss of $145M on its income statement. With that said, a fair amount of these losses are most likely non-cash expenses (accrued interest, depreciation & amortization, etc) but from an accounting perspective, the teams total expenses were $145M more than its revenues, so they are in the ‘red’ by $145M. Just look at the Atlanta Braves in 2019. They are public and disclosed their financials. They made $38M in EBITDA (Earnings before taxes, A&D) but they were actually in the ‘red’ over $40M after the non cash charges were factored in. Baseball teams do not bring in a lot of profit (net income) even in good years. What they do is generate positive cash flow (which is great for owners) but they have enough non-cash charges to post losses most years and avoid paying taxes. It becomes a win-win for them.
If it was what you were saying, the announcement would have been, the Phillies brought in $145M less in revenues than they did in 2019. A $145M loss is quite staggering as this means they certainly lost money from an EBITDA perspective too and had to eat into their cash reserves. Another season or two of this and some teams are going to be in big trouble.
U an accountant?
His avatar is.
I am and Dorothy is spot on. Terminology in the accounting world is incredibly confusing for the average person that doesn’t have a financial background, knowledge of the terms used.
I’m not assuming the story is using accounting terminology. It very well could be PR spin, could it not?
Teams mask their profits, so why should we expect them to be honest about their losses?
My tax accountant can beat up your tax accountant! Said every professional sports team owner.
I presume it’s because they can carry the depreciation out very far
The Braves are a public company and they had a $26 million operating loss before amortization and write offs. That means they lost nothing.
Did the Phillies lose 145m,or did they lose 145m off of their usual expected revenue?
Middleton is just getting his excuse ready for when we lose our 2 best hitters.
When they say the lost $145M, this means they lost $145M on their income statement. So yes, they lost $145M but not all of the expenses were cash expenses.
Classic Cyril stuff, right here.
Who’s to say the AP story is about accounting losses and not just the team’s spin? I can’t find the actual AP story, just a bunch of regurgitations of the same story stating $145M in “losses.”
Phillies just handed Sixto Sanchez to Miami like the Dodgers handed Pedro to Montreal.
They got the best catcher in baseball in return, if only for two seasons.
again, as a Phillies fan, it sucks in hindsight, but at the time it was an even trade.
Even at that time, the Phillies pitching (aside from Nola), was dubious at best. To be fair, not sure people (myself included) expected Jake to completely fall off the cliff. Regress, yes, but no lose it all.
It’s not an even trade if cheapskate Middleton doesn’t even make an attempt to resign him. If he’s so broke he needs to sell the team to someone who cares, the fans deserve better.
A underrated factor to that trade is that it likely helped with convincing Harper to sign in Philly.And people can say whatever about him,but I’m still happy he’s a Philly.
And Sixto had issues with staying healthy in the Phillies system.We’ll see how he handles a full season next year.
You’re gonna hate that Harper contract sooner rather than later
Heck, I bet Harper’s gonna hate that Harper contract sooner than later
I expect to hate the 2nd half of it.His bat speed could slip around 33,34.There are also cases of corner of’s staying productive through their mid 30s.The lh power bat,and a legit rf’r was needed when the deal was made.The years between Werth and him were pretty bad in rf for Philly.
Harper is average to good. He is paid like a super-star. Aside from 2015 (when he played like a superstar) and maybe 2017, he has merely been average to good. 2015 is a long time ago, now.
Harper is definitely not average.By the years you point out,you must just look at the batting average.Consistently flirts with a 400obp,and a 500slg%.Solid defense and a strong arm.He’s a very good ball player.
Matz on a shorter pitch count (75-85) he is more effective and stays healthy. Build up the pen and he is fine for a # 4 or 5 starter.
That seems to be the thought now a days according to analytics…. maximize player value by limiting pitch count, 3rd time through… personally I think it overly taxes the bullpen… make Matz the guy who replaces the starter and get a starter who can actually throw a hundred to 110 pitches. Then maybe maximize Matz by needing him to only pitch one or two innings. Just my theory.
He reminds me of Oliver Perez, mediocre as a starter but could be better in the bullpen.
Release /non-tender Matz watch him go to the Dodgers and they fix him and he will be great then.
Dodgers would have no reason to sign Matz.
I figured out why the marlins guy hates the Mets. All I have to do look at the record between the two the last 5 years.
Is that why Mets fans hate everyone else?
Yup! Good one. But you could make fun our past all you want. I’ll take our future over 20 other teams.
29
You’re gonna need a new crystal ball because the Mets are gonna Mets no matter who is forking out the contracts.
lol
Looking at the Phillies future. Idk if I’d laugh lol
idk, doesnt mean the Mets have a brighter future then all other teams though
the Mets are and forever will be the laughingstock of the league
I’m starting a “Save the Phillies Foundation”….donation of $100, and you get to dance with the Phanatic…$500 and you get to sleep with the Phanatic.(his/her daily persuasion dependent of course)……
gee, shocker Soto is untouchable. brilliant pre-arb guys aren’t just throw-ins for rentals.
On the subject of hype, the Nationals are banking on Robles and Kieboom living up to their hype, and the vaunted rotation doing the same, in 2021.
Matz needs to be non-tendered. Doubt he will accept a bullpen role in stride. Let him go elsewhere to continue to pursue a rotation spot.
Matz is cheaper to hold onto, than not. His 5 million to Cohen is more like 500 grand… or so it seems anyway. He’s yet to make an acquisition of any kind, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I could care less if Cohen owns the Buckner ball, and I don’t want to see or read any more anecdotal articles about Cohen. He needs to get off Twitter, get on with the business at hand, and start stocking the team with viable stars. Remind Sandy that he doesn’t have to count his chump change to go after free agents. You’re now the biggest commodity in the MLB, so start acting like it. We waited long enough to get here. We deserve it. So show us the money, Cohen.
Stevie Cohen’s beautiful money will manifest itself soon enough.
@bobbykidd1965
Hang in there bud. The whole FA pool will be identified right after the Dec 2 tender date. I think Super Steve is keeping his powder dry until he sees what’s out there just for $$ without having to trade prospects.
Hand is obviously of interest and I think he’s waiting to close deals bc they have some interest in Bryant and Sanchez. No QO on Bryant is the hook there. Other FA will also be of interest particularly for the pen.
NYM faithful should have a good holiday season. Only bad part is that we’ll be deluged with drivel from fanboys like mf22.
Phillies lost $145MM compared to what? Is it a net operating loss for 2020? Are they comparing dollar to dollar over other season averages? Curious what “lost” represents.
I always thought I could see Matz turn in to a Brad Hand type of pitcher. Started turned effective reliever/closer.
Matz is the type of rotation depth you have on a minor league contract or at the MLB minimum, not for $5M.
Isn’t that $145 million loss just the stupid money that was never spent? Asking for a friend!
Bryant to the National for Will Crowe, (either Eddy Yean or Mason Denaburg), and Matt Cronin? Cubs receive a potential lefty set-up guy, immediate #5 starter (Crowe), and in either Yean or Denaburg a potential high-impact lottery pick.
As a Cubs fan – since I would imagine Rutledge, Cavalli, and Lara are off the table – I would take this deal. Get what you can for a guy the Cubs right now are not going to resign.
I don’t think Kris Bryant is going to give the Cubs a hometown discount, and if he has a great season in 2020, they can resign him heading into 2021. This way the Cubs at least get some value back, while cutting payroll.
They can use Bryant’s salary savings to sign La Stella and Quintana, with additional money left over. Then non-tender Schwarber, trying to bring him back at a cheaper amount or simply move Happ to leftfield where he probably belongs. Cubs get better defensively and get one of a couple of contact hitters they probably need throughout this lineup.
okay, not to pick hairs here, but how on Earth did Mr. 4.70 ERA Eddy Yean become such a high ranked prospect in the Nats system overnight?
From MLB.com: “The Nationals gave out six-figure bonuses to 16 different players at the outset of the 2017-18 international period including Yean, whom they signed out of the Dominican Republic for $100,000 on July 2. He pitched to mixed results during his pro debut in the Dominican Summer League the next year but jumped onto the prospect radar in 2019, thanks to an eye-opening age-18 campaign that saw his stuff improve across the board and concluded with a late-season promotion to Class A Short Season Auburn. He was one of the more talked-about prospects during Washington’s fall instructional league.
Yean’s improved velocity can be attributed to his recent physical gains, as he’s quickly grown into his projectable frame without it detracting from his athleticism and clean delivery. His explosive fastball touches 97 mph and parks in the low- to mid-90s with late life and angle, setting up an 84-86 mph slider with depth that projects as at least an above-average pitch. A promising changeup gives Yean another potential weapon, and club officials were pleased with his progress during instructional league in developing the pitch.
With his stuff, size and delivery, Yean looks every bit the part of a future big league starter. While conditioning will be a major focus in the young right-hander’s development going forward, the Nationals believe he has the requisite athleticism to make it all work.”
So, it just looks like he has potential. I like Denaburg better, but Yean is younger. All of this seems it some sense like a pretty humiliating return for a former ROY and MVP, but apparently the Cubs need to move salary.
I might have made this deal last winter. Now, knowing the Cubs really want to shred payroll, and for one year of control, not so sure I would part with three assets, and assume the whole contract. On the other hand, he is a Boras guy, and Washington is one of the teams that he has worked well with, over the years.
Matz reminds me of Isringhausen. Good stuff that fades fast. Decent first run through a lineup, so so second and dreadful third., Sounds like a reliever to me.
Interesting dialog…first, as a Phillies Phan, let me spend my. $.02c…First, the Bravos..Still the gem of the NLE..next, I see the Mets and Fish about equal only because the Fish have a bun ch of very young players and a solid minor league system.. then comes the Nats who have a lot of talent, but there is something missing there…The Phils (I love the Phils) have more holes than Swiss Cheese…Middleton said in the past he’s spend stupid money, and he did..They have on e of the highest payrolls in. baseball, yet might lose JT, DD and that is a lot to lose..
Back to the Fish..As good as I think they are, it will revert back to the same old krapola as b4..Zero fan base that comes out to the park..I go to games there and 70% or better of the plans in the seats are from the visiting g team..as their players get better, they just can’t keep them…winning there has zero effect on attendance…It’s not a baseball town
Sorry about all the typos…I suck at editing…
Cubs have Baez they don’t need Trea Turner. If Bryant had 4 years of control and was 3 years younger. He wouldn’t net Soto.