The Blue Jays made one of the first strikes of the offseason when they re-signed southpaw Robbie Ray to a one-year, $8MM deal next week. That certainly doesn’t sound as though it’ll be the only rotation addition for Toronto this winter, however. General manager Ross Atkins told reporters in a Zoom call yesterday that he plans to remain active in his pursuit of rotation upgrades.
“I feel good about acquiring another free agent — I can tell you that — in the starting pitcher market,” Atkins said (Twitter thread via the Toronto Star’s Gregor Chisholm). “That doesn’t mean it will happen, but I feel like we have a chance to do it. … If that doesn’t happen, we’ll turn to the trade market. But we’re working on them simultaneously.”
Toronto already has a fairly deep crop of rotation options. Ray joins Hyun Jin Ryu, Nate Pearson, Tanner Roark and Ross Stripling as likely rotation pieces, with depth pieces including Trent Thornton, T.J. Zeuch, Anthony Kay, Jacob Waguespack, Sean Reid-Foley and others. Because they already have a number of options in place to soak up innings, Atkins made clear that his goal in future additions is not to simply bolster that depth but improve the options at the top of the staff. Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith tweets Atkins adopted a quality-over-quantity attitude when talking about the club’s continued pitching pursuits.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that the Jays are committed to acquiring an ace and nothing else. Adding a solid mid-rotation piece would still be prudent, given that each of Ray, Roark, Stripling and Pearson struggled to varying extents in 2020. If the Jays do want to put the pedal to the metal, so to speak, it’s worth noting that Atkins and club president Mark Shapiro came over from the Indians organization where top free agent Trevor Bauer has spent the bulk of his career.
Lower-risk but still-solid options include the likes of Kevin Gausman, Jake Odorizzi, Masahiro Tanaka and Jose Quintana, among many others. Old friend Marcus Stroman is also on the open market, although he had some harsh words for the front office after being traded in 2019. The possibilities on the trade market are too plentiful to count, although the Jays reportedly came close to striking a deal for Pirates righty Joe Musgrove prior to the Aug. 31 trade deadline.
DarkSide830
i wonder if some of their blocked young SP (Zeuch, Kay, SRF, etc) could be had for a solid OF or C.
DarkSide830
oh and Hatch
bigdaddyt
Hatch is a solid bullpen piece and has expressed interest in staying in it this season. And don’t think their going to get yet another catcher until they really figure out what Kirk is
terrymesmer
Roark and Stripling are not blocking anyone unless they come out blazing in 2021. Triple-A will have a full rotation of prospects (no more journeymen or reclamations) and a couple arms could throw multiple innings in the MLB bullpen. No one threw 100 innings in 2020; it might be a good idea to let some bulk guys ease the load of MLB rotations. Might even see some six-man rotations mid-season and in September.
KamKid
DarkSide, is there anyone in that group in particular you like? I like a bunch of them. While the Jays do need impact pitching, I think it’s often overlooked how well set up they are in terms of pitching depth. How many teams get by with 5 starters in a season? Having major league ready starters with options at AAA is important. If they do add a higher tier pitcher through free agency, they could certainly move some. You mentioned a few and there’s still also Patrick Murphy, Trent Thornton, Hector Perez, Yennsy Diaz (the latter 2 are almost surely headed for bullpen roles). Julian Merryweather is an out of options guy too. Lots of pitching depth with some upside there in a few of them. They can afford to trade some and still have injuries covered.
jimmertee
In the longterm, I feel Hatch and Pearson are going to be good to very good starters.
In the shorter term I feel Ryu is the only quality starter that they have. Stripling is a spot starter and depth only. Kay needs to improve to be a #4. Roark is done, time to cut him loose. Ray doesn’t know where the ball is going out of his hand. Thornton is a borderline starter. Perhaps one of the other kids can step up.
Both Tanaka and Ordorizzi are needed for the BlueJays to have a legitimate shot at winning anything.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Even if they got both of those guys, I’m not sure that’s enough of an improvement to make them contenders. The offense is great, but the pitching was among the worst in baseball. If they also get Pearson to make a Giolito-esque leap forward, then yeah, but right now, there are just a lot of holes and those two guys are solid, but not aces.
rememberthecoop
Hatch is a reliever long term.
bot
Rays shoulda gave Morton the 15 and then traded him for peanuts to keep him out of the division. Morton is highly unlikely to sign w a team like mets or reds and both would eagerly give up small value to have Morton on their team next year. He should be Jays top target !
UnknownPoster
If they sign him as FA, can’t trade him until June without consent. For this very reason, you can’t screw with a guys choice where to sign
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Gausman??? What are his numbers like at the Sky Dome?
Plus, he would cost a draft pick, if he turns down the QO
it would be funny if Stroman came back and he would cost a drat pick too
Blue Jays have prospects, maybe make trade for someone
Alex Cobb is available and I would throw in Chris Davis to get this done
its_happening
Cobb and $2-mil for Hector Perez or De Paula.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
@Were All
That might work, but I am unsure what Cobb is really worth
he would be better off on a legit contender, plus he is prone to blisters.
its_happening
Lefty, considering the Jays willingness to settle for Ray they’d be fine with Cobb. O’s would have to eat a little salary. Cobb would bridge the gap for a year before SWR arrives.
jimmertee
I always liked Cobb when he was healthy. I’m not sure I would trade for him now,, his best days may be over. I wonder if he can the bigtime innings?
CavanFuggedYourBichio
Nah, we’re good lol. If you want to get rid of Chris Davis it will cost you Grayson Rodríguez or Heston kjerstad plus more. He would be released immediately as there is no 40-man roster space for the worst player in the entire league. Do you really think the Jays would take on 60million dollars in salary for essentially 1 season of Alex Cobb LOL.
dpsmith22
do you really think a team would give it’s first round pick of the last 2 years, in a rebuild, to get rid of Chris Davis?
CavanFuggedYourBichio
Lol do you really think the Bluejays would take on 47million in Salary for the worst player in the league? I didnt say they would do it, I said that’s what it would cost, NOBODY is taking Chris Davis for ANY less.
UnknownPoster
The ridiculousness of his proposal speaks to how ridiculous the first proposal was
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
@Cavan
I am always trying to help the Blue Jays and it was the least I could do
In all seriousness, the Blue Jays should look for a trade rather than free agency, but I have no idea on who to seriously suggest
Maybe sign a free agent and wait until the deadline to make a deal rather than now,.
jimmertee
A semi developed first round pick with high upside is worth about $10M. If Davis has $60M left on his contract, that means to me the Jays or anyone else need $60 million back in return somehow because Davis is being cut right away.
FYI, The two years before he signed the big deal he was on adderall, a proven PED. His performance was highly inflated.
andremets
Os will eventually just waive Davis, eat the money and move on. I think he’s swing the last bat of his career already.
its_happening
Tanaka should be on their radar. Paxton on a buy low with incentives should be on the radar. A Bauer to Toronto signing would be a shock. Odorizzi is looking for a 4 or 5 year deal. Pass on that.
Morton should also be on the Jays radar. Lester too.
rhymo
I agree on all those aspects. I would like to see Tanaka, Paxton, Morton, or even Lester the only concern I would have is jays needing a top of the rotation arm with Ryu. I would think Pearson could be it but a proven top of the rotation arm would be ideal. Lester and Paxton at this point seem to be more like Robbie Ray; a possible mid tier rotation arm that has upside but most likely destined for bottom of the rotation. As we have enough 4-5 starters that may sway us from signing another possible one like Lester or Paxton. I would live to see Morton on a one year possibly two year deal as a top of the rotation arm to go along Ryu and Pearson.
its_happening
Rhymo – every guys I mentioned is better than Robbie Ray. That is why I am adamant about the Ray signing being a waste of time. Track record speaks volumes. Tanaka might be considered a strong #2 based on his short 2020 season, heck maybe even a 1B. A Ryu, Tanaka, Pearson combo would not be bad. Tanaka might be a good influence on Pearson.
rhymo
Track records speak volumes but was Ray’s track record solid before the 2020 season? He always struggled with command but his track record has been solid. I still have hope he can be somewhat like Liriano. Great stuff but wildly effective. I’m not saying Ray was the best signing or option but I have hopes for him.
its_happening
Liriano type isn’t going to cut it.
The rest of the pitchers mentioned have or had a track record in the AL East. That matters. Ray pitching in the NL walking guys left, right and center is very concerning. Ray is the type of signing you make if you are a team that is not ready to win. You hope for the best and temper expectations. If the Jays are looking to contend in 2021 this was not the signing to make.
KamKid
What do other Blue Jay additions Shoemaker, Walker, Dolis, Yamaguchi all have in common with Masahiro Tanaka? The splitter. Jays value that pitch. I feel like there’s a bit of risk in Tanaka, but he probably counts as impact in a way and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were exploring his market.
its_happening
KamKid, check Tanaka’s 2020 season and tell me you would not take that times 2 and a half. Tanaka is AL East hardened and would be a boost.
KamKid
Yeah. I like Tanaka fine. I don’t know if he’s my definition of impact, but I think he raises the floor of the rotation. Depends on term and price. His 2020 was fine but a FIP of 4.42 is pretty average. His WAR extrapolated to a full season is about 2.5. I like the low walk rates to contrast Ray. I would love Tanaka instead of Roark or Ray, He’s not first on my list for the impact part, but I wouldn’t dismiss him either. This website predicts a market of 3/39 for him. He’s 32 now so it’s reasonable to think he can maintain effectiveness for that time. There doesn’t seem to be anything that jumps out as an alarming trend.
jimmertee
Agreed Guests.
Tanaka for sure.
No to 4-5 years for Odorizzi. 2-3 years max.
Paxton on low sal + incentives.
i hear Morton wants nothing to do with travelling, so he wants to stay in Tampa near his home.
Bauer would look good, but lotsa homers coming through him either in Buffalo or Toronto.
its_happening
We are aware of Morton’s desire to be close to home. Money talks. Now, I’d rather offer a 2-year to Tanaka instead. Healthy Paxton is better than Ray. Healthy Paxton at his top form is a #2. A rotation of Ryu, Tanaka, Paxton, Pearson and (I guess) Ray does not look awful.
When you look at the rotation in that sense, it exposes the fact that the Ray overpay jumped the gun and wasn’t necessary. Ray is a guy you look to when options 1-6 sign elsewhere.
jimmertee
Sigh Yah Ray was a premature signing. But that is Shapiro/Atkins in their finest form. Kendrys Morales part II on 1 year deal anyone?
its_happening
Remember Jaime Garcia?
“Huge upside. Like the signing. Can get prospects when you flip him at the deadline. Blah blah blah….”
Have we not learned from past mistakes? Stop overpaying for #5s.
Sonny 3
What about Cashner
Rangers29
you mean like… you mean like… LANCE LYNN!!!
jimmertee
lol, give it a rest Rangerman.
Rangers29
I know, lol.
gson
At an Indians forum..following the story about the Jays being interested in the acquisition of George Springer (personally, I don’t understand the other player mentioned in the same light, Jackie Bradley Jr.) giving the Jays an OF’er they could consider trading. An OF’er is one of the holes the Indians have and are actively looking for help ther.. It was further mentioned that the Jays and Tribe could be a match for a Lindor deal (assumes a negotiating window for a contract extension, Vlad jr moving to 1B, Bichetter to 3B…. making the Jays infield the best in all of MLB) but only if one the Indians [nine] starting pitchers (not named Bieber) are included in the deal… Perhaps a prospect or more from both teams helping fill holes/eliminating blockage..
Thoughts?
Dexxter
Yup.
I’d be very interested in signing Springer and flipping an OF to Cleveland.
Grichuk and his contract wouldn’t be worth much… but Teoscar has some value after last season. Maybe even Gurriel but would need a young proven pitcher with plenty of control for him.
Maybe Triston McKenzie in a Gurriel deal of some form?
its_happening
Probably Plesac. The Indians will cry poor over Grichuk yet would welcome Teoscar who will command a nice raise in arbitration. Add to the fact they just saved $10-mil on Hand, they could carry Grichuk as a corner OF. Adding Plesac means they’d get some prospects in-return.
Truthfully, Indians should look to the Mets for one of their prospect SS and an OF if they want to contend in 2021. Indians seemingly want ready-now players, and the Jays might not want to part with their ready-now guys.
gson
The Indians don’t need another SS candidate.. if that’s the best “quality” prospect.. then, that’s where they’ll go..but..no real need there..
w/r McKenzie.. okay..
w/r to Plesac.. also okay…
The Indians are very deep w/r to pitching and in desperate need of quality position players.. that’s where the CLEFO is focused…
its_happening
Do you even know who the next SS is for Cleveland in the event Lindor is traded?
Answer: You do not have one.
You will need one for 2021. The Mets have one that will be ready opening day for the Indians with years of control. If your Indians plan on spending money for a SS then I guess that’s that. We will see. But you will need a SS.
cdav45
Definately not Plesac. If you’re getting a SP from Cleveland it will be Carrasco, and stop mentioning Grichuk. You don’t get good/great MLB players for your cast offs and overpriced vets. Carrasco is a #2 on most clubs and signed to a very team friendly deal. He won’t come cheap. You’ll give up less to get Lindor, and that isn’t going to be cheap either.
rememberthecoop
“Lower risk but still-solid options”? Wouldn’t lower risk be better?
Catch tha Taste
Bauer is a possibility to the Jays but I think he ends up getting over paid, for the 4+ ERA he’s posted up till last year that it will price the Jays out of their comfort for him. Odorizzi & Archer seem like guys that they may end up with. No doubt that Morton and Tanaka have to be on their list as well, but they may be harder signees for the Jays.
I don’t get all the Lindor talk, why do the Jays do this for 1 year of him? Do you really think he’s signing in Toronto before hitting free agency? If the Jays were a win now club, it makes sense. But they are at least 1-2 years away from being there… and they have some really good second waive of prospects coming up that they are not going to want to block long term) (Groshans, A.Martin, O.Martinez etc).
KamKid
It’s interesting that Atkins is specifically identifying the free agent market as the place they are going to get impact pitching. That really narrows it down to a handful of guys. On the trade front, how about German Marquez?
turner9
FA Pitching wish list
1. Bauer
2. Hand
3. Walker
4. Tanaka
Trades
The 2 young kids in Pittsburgh
Pleasac in a lindor trade
Any of those options will be a plus going forward, 2 of them would be ideal.
Altuves Buzzer
Morton 22 for 1, jays spring training is near his home (and recently massively revamped) and they are 90% playing in Buffalo this year (unless there’s a vaccine or USA rates get seriously reduced) which is 2.5 hours from fla with around 10 road dates in fla.
I could see it and no such thing as a bad one year deal