Could Mookie Betts have blossomed to stardom in a Brewers uniform? It could have been a reality if former Milwaukee GM Doug Melvin had had his way, as he tried to acquire Betts from the Red Sox in 2013 in exchange for closer Francisco Rodriguez, according to MLB.com’s Adam Berry and Adam McCalvy. As a fifth-round pick for Boston in the 2011 draft, “Mookie sort of went under the radar if you went by the so-called MLB Pipeline or whatever. I don’t think at the time he was in their top 10-15 prospects,” Melvin said. Both the Brewers’ analytics and scouting departments agreed on Betts’ potential, however, so the pitch was made to then-Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington, who wisely declined the offer.
Betts was already in the midst of a big season at the A-ball levels in 2013, and Cherington recalls that by season’s end, Betts’ “name was the first one” mentioned by other clubs in trade negotiations. “Doug Melvin was the first to ask, so I always give Doug credit. He was the first one to ask for him,” Cherington said.
While Milwaukee fans take a moment to sigh ruefully, let’s look at some other items from around the NL Central…
- Cubs third base coach Will Venable spoke with the Tigers about their managerial vacancy, NBC Sports Chicago’s Gordon Wittenmyer reports. Venable was first cited as a potential candidate for the Tigers job back in September, and Venable has also recently interviewed with the Red Sox about their managerial job. Beyond the Red Sox and Tigers, “other clubs also have sought the Cubs’ permission to talk with Venable about other, non-managerial openings in their organizations,” Wittenmyer writes. A veteran of nine MLB seasons, Venable has spent the last three years in Wrigleyville as a special assistant to Theo Epstein, as well as a first base and third base coach. This is the second straight winter that Venable has been a popular candidate, as the Cubs considered him for their own manager’s job last offseason, and the Astros and Giants also interviewed him for their managerial openings.
- The Pirates have 19 players eligible for arbitration this offseason, the most of any team in baseball. At least some of those names won’t be back in Pittsburgh in 2021, as The Athletic’s Rob Biertempfel thinks as many as six players could be non-tendered and several others are trade candidates. Interestingly, Biertempfel cites Trevor Williams as a potential non-tender, on the heels of a season that saw Williams get off to a good start but then struggle to finish with a 6.18 ERA over 55 1/3 innings, with a league-high 15 homers allowed. Williams received some trade interest from at least one team (the Blue Jays) back in August, so it’s possible Toronto or another club could have some talks with the Pirates before the non-tender deadline. Williams had a pair of solid seasons in 2017-18 and is entering his age-29 season with two years of team control remaining. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects Williams to earn between $3.2MM and $4.6MM through the arbitration process this winter.
Yes, the Brewers could’ve had Mookie Betts which they missed out on. But they’re really losers when you consider they could’ve traded him this past offseason for financial flexibility!
Mookie never would have signed a free agent contract in a drab place like Milwaukee, so they would have lost him for a fourth round pick….lol
Mookie was totally in control of where Mookie wanted to play…..you don’t get it either….lol
When you sign a contact for over $100 million you will never live long enough to spend all the money, so you sign where you want. Sometime it is from the team that offers the most and sometimes it is not.
TR – Wow this is your second response talking about how location is most important. What are you a real estate agent? Location, Location Location? Mookie took the deal because it was a fair market price with an organization that is strong and will compete for championships based on their financial commitment and the quality of players in their organization. It was a business decision not a great place to buy a house.
Location can be important for many reasons not just the weather. If family lives in a location that might draw a player there or away from it if the relationships are rocky. Spouse preferences could be a big part of the decision. But in the end, all the items on Mookie’s checklist needed to be marked and they were in LA. The financial side, the quality of living side and the respect of the organization were all good in LA and not in Boston.
You may want to apologize to the folks of Milwaukee. Your description was ignorant. Milwaukee is a great place to live and have a family. The weather is northern weather but the city itself is awesome.
They didn’t need to lose Mookie for a fourth round pick. I believe plenty of teams competing for the World Series this year would have been interested in late July for Mookie. Verdugo, and the two other back-ups could have been surpassed quite easily. Think of the Braves farm system. Think of the Padres farm system. Both could have beat out LAD in a bidding war for Mookie. The idea that he got traded for a fair value is ridiculous when you consider the other options that remained unexplored because the deal was done prematurely.
Grew up outside Milwaukee. Loved it! Would go back again in a heartbeat. (Maybe not so much Kenosha currently) Just bc you think a place is crap doesn’t mean everyone else does. Plenty of pro athletes stay in WI bc they love it there.
Uh.
Milwaukee is underrated.
Myself? I’d rather live in any city before I’d choose LA. For a variety of reasons.
Personally I like Milwaukee too. I am not a California person, but Mookie certainly seems to be and I was speaking from his perspective based on his comments. I lived 35 years in the Midwest and prefer it.
We’ll never know but based on Mookie’s original action, he signed with LA instead of playing it out because a) he likes living and playing there but also b) COVIID-19 changed the equation. When he was offered basically pre-pandemic free agent value, he took it instead of seeing what his true market value was. Had Boston offered that contract before the trade and then the world changing,I don’t see him signing then.
LA at middle class pay, I would pass. LA California at Mookie money, I would take California in a heart beat.
That type of money can afford any community or home in California. For all we know he could live in Malibu, Newport Beach, Hollywood Hills, etc. Those areas have amazing views paired with beautiful homes.
Dodgers stadium isn’t impressive, but the organization is. There he is in the World Series with a chance to win it. Plus he gets paid 32 million a season at 39 years old from the Dodgers.
Actually, the net present value of $35M for 12 years which is the rumored amount he asked for from Boston is $29M less than the deal he signed with LAD. There was no COVID influence on Mookie’s decision, He took the deal because it was fair market value and far more than anyone offered because of the $65M up front. He had an excellent financial advisor.
Fair enough.
I guess it was the “drab city” I was reacting to.
Everyone has different priorities. One of my sales guys spends 3-4 months in Los Angeles every winter.
You couldn’t pay me to do that!
But.
I was out on the MN river at dawn hunkering down in one of my boats (in light snow!) hunting ducks & geese.
I realize that is most certainly *not* for everyone.
Uh?
Will you get over it already? The Red Sox were gonna lose Mookie anyway and they weren’t contenders this year. Getting Verdugo, Downs and Wong and shedding half of the Price contract easily beats the fourth round pick and lowered draft position they would have gotten by keeping Betts.
Sorry Jim but the deal was miserable. It will be regretted for a century just like Babe Ruth. The ownership choosing to not give Mookie the money created the problem then Bloom not doing what GMs are supposed to do by finding the ideal time to deal Mookie is yet another critical failure in this deal and then throw in the financial suicide of the Price component and this one surpasses the Ruth sale by a wide margin with regard to stupidity.
Just getting rid of Price’s ridiculous contract is almost a win by itself
KD – you must live for this site ….. time for me to leave……
Your prose is decidedly overwrought. Most Red Sox fans got over the drama in 100 minutes, not your stated 100 years. The team is called the Boston Red Sox and not your hardon for the Boston Mookies. Are you an adolescent?
Regretted for a century? Financial suicide? Dramatic much?
KD been watching too much Wilbon…
@KD17 Bloom dealt Mookie at the absolute PERFECT time. And how is shedding David Price’s underwater contract that Red Sox fans were hoping and praying only a year earlier that he would opt out of “financial suicide?”
It is now all hindsight, but we know that Mookie was never going to sign a long-term deal with the Red Sox. And even with him, the Red Sox pitching was so terrible this year that they wouldn’t have made the playoffs anyway. The fact that they were able to get one budding star and two minor leaguers with a lot of potential is the best possible outcome. Shedding half of Price’s salary (and him sitting out this year) was just a big bonus.
No I find it hilarious that one of the leagues wealthiest teams traded their best player in his prime who is undoubtably a top 5 player league wide because they didn’t meet his asking price.
@JDGoat it was either that or lose him for a fourth round draft pick.
JDGoat@, Yes you’re right but mookie was looking for a contract that would pay him a gazillion dollars WELL PAST his prime. Only a team floating in money would do that.
We all know the Red Sox plan of getting under the tax in 2020. That three times the tax hit is pretty huge so 1 times the tax was the goal. Things will normalize in 2021 and you can bet the Sox will keep their homegrown prized prospects, even if they let one who is 29 years old get away.
They may have met the price had it be the right time. They had to reset the lux tax. I never got the feeling Mookie would stay. The Sox tried every year to get a deal done, but he wanted to wait. I am fine with letting him go, and fine with the return. Waiting til the trade deadline could’ve been a huge mistake with the COVID wild card. I wish Mookie well and have no issues. Glad he got what he wanted and seems happy.
its called smart business…if I remember correctly didn’t he turn down 10yrs 300mill before the trade? which was like around a 15mill a year raise…sorry the spoiled crybaby athlete felt he couldn’t live off 300mill…as a red sox fan getting rid of him was the SMARTEST move
Why shouldn’t he get as much as he can? I am a Sox fan as well, and have no problem with the athlete who treats it as a business. The owners do the same.
This is also one of those “what ifs” that does not occur in a vacuum. Betts would have likely remained at second base with Milwaukee since there was no Dustin Pedroia to force the move to RF. You also have to wonder about whether Yelich could have been acquired. With Betts in tow the Brewers may not have fallen out of the race and Jonathan Lucroy may not have been traded for Lewis Brinson who in turn could not have been the #1 prospect in the deal for Yelich.
Boston may not have won the World Series in 13 either. Koji Uehara was their superstar in the ALCS, but if they acquired KRod Koji wouldn’t have even been the closer. Who knows if K-Rod would have led them to the LCS win.
I love what if chain reactions.
outstanding comment. The what-ifs are endless and meaningless.
Good stuff, @hiflew.
Man, I forgot all about the fact he came up playing second.
Agreed !! Good stuff Hiflew.
It’s nice to hear a new recent baseball what if instead of the stale David Wright/Blue Jays one that I am sick of.
Doug Melvin had a decent eye for talent.
I really think Betts signed an extension in L.A. because once he got there he liked the area and the organization. I doubt that would have been the case in Milwaukee. Just a hunch.
California is a dumpsterfire and their taxes alone means he will earn less there.
Never know. Yelich signed an extension there and he is just as much a star as Mookie. I think people are really giving Milwaukee a completely undeserved bad rap here. I’ve never been to Milwaukee, but I have been to Cincinnati, Columbus, Chicago, and Indianapolis. They can’t be that much different. They all seemed like really nice places to live.
I see a lot of Mookie Betts in Jeter Downs (btw, Jeter plays 2nd base… like somebody else when he came up). Very similar swings, statures, and ability (when Mookie was in the minors, I’m not comparing a prospect to a current MVP winner). All I’m saying is that Boston has a really nice piece in Jeter, and it looks like they’ll have their own Jeter to flaunt for years to come.
They don’t deserve Downs to become a star after their weasle move on Graterol. Graterol is extremely raw and still an effective relief pitcher. He will be an elite closer in 3 years and make LA’s fleecing of Boston even worse.
How is it “weasel”? They wanted a starter, and with Graterol, you’re getting a high leverage reliever. Not saying he wouldn’t of helped them, but it is easier to find great bullpen arms than it is to find great starters. Heck, Pete Fairbanks has become a substantial piece in Tampa after coming over in the Nick Solak trade with Texas. They didn’t trade an MVP for him.
I wasn’t aware you could tell if someone is a starter or reliever based on a physical…. If Boston wanted Graterol to start they very well could have done so. The fact Graterol has been healthy proves Boston was trying to weasle more out of the trade.
He has already had TJ surgery, and in just 2019 he went down with a shoulder injury. They could’ve started him, but tbh with the way his stuff is, he’s a bullpen arm. It’s inevitable. Very few starters are capable of throwing up to and over 100 mph consistently: Jacob Degrom (he’s the unicorn, very few injuries), Chris Sale (You should know), Strasburg (everything), Verlander (TJ)… It just doesn’t work out most of the time for guys like that, and despite those guys being some of the best pitchers of this generation, they are injury prone. And with Graterol already having a compiling injury history, I wouldn’t have wanted to take the risk of starting him. For the sake of the Sox, and for the sake of his career. Keep him in the pen.
GoLandCrabs – Shows you how bad Bloom is at his job. We got less with Downs and Wong!! There was no reason to rush the deal but hey why get top dollar when you can get 10 cents on the dollar in January!!!
@KD17 if he waited any longer the COVID pandemic would have hit and he wouldn’t have gotten anything for Betts as teams wouldn’t have even been sure that there would be a season.
In July when the playoffs positioning was happening both Atlanta and San Diego would have become bidders and others might have jumped in too.
@KD17 No one would have traded a thing for Betts in July when he was two months out from free agency, they got no draft pick for losing him and in the middle of a pandemic.
I guess Bloom made sure we’ll never know the answer to that question. I believe there would have been strong competition for the 2nd best player in baseball just like there was for Chapman. Lots of teams haven’t won in lots of years and Betts makes anyone of the top teams the favorite. If Atlanta gets him over LAD, they are probably in the World Series right now. Maybe even San Diego gets there with Betts in SD not LA.
We can both speculate but there is no sure answer. The Cubs proved to the baseball world that the level of desperation can be far greater at the deadline than most people can imagine.
Mookie wasn’t in the middle of a DV scandal when LAD acquired him and we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic when Chapman was traded to the Cubs.
Stop being so obtuse and admit that the Red Sox wouldn’t have gotten as much for Mookie as they did during the offseason.
@Sandcrabs A guy who has pitched one partial season is the next Mariano Rivera, sure he is
How does “elite” = “greatest of all time”?
How does a team not deserve the personal success of a player/person?
Wild comparison. Downs is not like Betts at all. Downs can’t hit low level pitching in the minors.and Mookie hit .341 with an OBP of .414 and slugging of .551 at age 20 at Hi-A where Downs struggled. By 21 he was starting in Fenway. Downs sucks compared to Mookie.
Dream on about Downs. The most over-rated prospect we’ve had since Anderson Espinoza. Your infatuation with Downs is completely unrealistic. He’ll be a journeyman if he makes the majors. He projects to hit for low average, has the potential to walk a lot and swings for the fences on every pitch so he’ll strike out a lot and he’s an average defender. Where are you getting your information. It can’t be farther from the truth. Go to Baseball Reference and look up both players if you don’t believe me. Downs was the #32 pick in the draft and considered a bust for a couple of years until he got promoted to AA for 12 games in 2019 against two of the three worst pitching staffs in the league. His .333 average jumped him from obscurity to #44 on the MLB prospect list leaving the first 2 and 3/4 years of mediocrity as if it didn’t happen. Bloom got fooled. Downs has a low probability of success based on his performance at the lowest levels of the minors. Check out Mookie’s numbers at those levels and you see a star of the future, just like Trout did and Acuna and Tatis. Downs won’t be a star in Boston. He’ll be lucky to make the majors in the next few years. I say sell high and buy low so swap him for a guy with real talent that isn’t top 100. The rankings are such a joke. Did you know the first time Mookie was ranked was when he was playing for the Red Sox not in the minors? You know who the ranking people liked? Blake Swihart and Henry Owens. Oh yeah and Anderson Espinoza.
Sooooooo mad hahaha
Mookie was gone after one year anyway. Downs easily beats the fourth round pick they stood to receive when Betts walked after 2020. And even if Downs does end up busting (which is definitely a possibility) the Sox still have Alex Verdugo for 4 more years and 6 years (7 with some easy service time manipulation) of Connor Wong.
The fourth round pick is silly. That would never have happened, they could easily have moved him in July and gotten more.
Verdugo will play for several years and add value but the whole point is they gave us 3 back-ups for Betts. We could have gotten more if the timing was during a point in the season when a team had an urgent need. No urgency in January.
Also, players only have value if the are better than an alternative available to us. I don’t see Downs or Wong being starters for the Red Sox so then their only value would as a back-up and that means limited value to us during 1 or 5 seasons. On top of that, they need to beat out our other back-up players or they were of no value at all.
So to summarize. We gave up what turned out to be a nearly MVP season by Betts for a good season by Verdugo. Verdugo could have several more during his controlled years. Thus, as of now, Verdugo is the ONLY value received in the deal. Downs and Wong have yet to add value and unless we trade them and receive value or they actually make it to the roster and start their value is non-existent or extremely limited compared to Verdugo. On the flip side, besides the Mookie one year value we also lost Price. During 2021 and 2022 any pitching that Price does will add to Mookie’s one year of hitting. That’s our cost.
If we had dealt Mookie in July for one starting pitcher under control then the same analysis would be done between Mookie’s partial season and the starting pitcher’s next several years. The Price component would go away and we’d get Price’s value in 2021 and 2022 and we’d lose the $16M X 60/162 that we saved in 2020.
So for now the question becomes is Verdugo better than whatever else we could have gotten in July? I say no because there would have been far more desperation in July and maybe LAD gives us a quality starter like May or Urias to beat out Atlanta’s offer of Ian Anderson (since this deal is in July he wouldn’t have shown what a stud he is yet) or Kyle Wright. Worst case they offer a comparable OF like Pache or Waters. San Diego is in the same boat with farm system pitchers. With competition for Betts I can’t see a way we don’t get as much as we did in January. LAD wouldn’t be in the World Series without Betts and Atlanta or San Diego might be.
Also, I’m mad at Red Sox ownership. Why aren’t you?
No, they weren’t going to get more in July now that the pandemic had hit and when the acquiring team only got him for 1/3 of the time and no draft pick.
The Dodgers had a completely urgent need for Betts. They have always failed to make a big move to put them over the top and Betts is doing exactly what they hoped he would do.
If Wong or Downs aren’t the best player available at their position for Boston, they would be able to net value via trade.
Betts’ MVP season wouldn’t have been enough to get Boston into the playoffs this year. All he would have done was hurt their draft position.
No reason to believe Downs and Wong can’t produce in the future.
Getting Price off their books was huge for Boston.
I’m not mad at Red Sox ownership because I am not a Red Sox fan or a fan of any AL East team.
Good to know. It helps explain your position. Thanks.
I can imagine the number of articles that will continue to be written about Betts over the next 12 years as he builds his HOF case, acting as a continually painful reminder
Maybe Verdugo and Downs will provide some relief for Red Sox fans, but history says this will not be so.
The Dodgers owe Betts huge money until he is 39. I doubt he produces after 35.
Agree. So if he performs above his contract for 8 years and below for 4 is it a bad deal?
Do you believe he will perform above for 8 years? Maybe 5 years. The Sox weren’t in the position to do this deal. They have years where they will spend big and years they won’t. That’s what the lux tax does. Look at the Yanks last year.
It’s just not, but okay. I don’t know anyone who isn’t okay with it. He wasn’t staying with the Sox.
Milwaukee fans bring it every game. Miller Park is always rocking inside and outside the stadium. Hell, there is probably another 1000 or so fans still out in the parking lot watching or listening from their cars. Plus every bar is packed around the stadium.
I reside in Milwaukee now and up until this 2020 BS, I have loved the area.
Boston, like most teams, became a victim of their success. Good players get paid and you have to have good players to win, and when you win, the players get paid even more. Teams have a budget. Its hard to trade a Mookie 1. When he’s cheap or 2. When you are trying to contend. When his trade value is peak, is probably the same time his value is highest to Boston’s franchise. So KD17, when would you have traded him?
I would have kept him but if that wasn’t possible I think in July with expanded playoffs and teams on the fringe of being successful both San Diego and Atlanta would have competed to drive up his price. Other teams, possibly the Yankees might have even joined in the fun just to drive up the price for LAD.
Chapman brought home Torres for a desperate Cub organization. Hard to tell what we could have gotten since nobody was desperate in January.
I guess the Tiger managerial search is of not much interest. Venable? Kelly? Cora? Hinch?
Maybe waiting for a coach from one of the WS teams to interview?
Very possible. Dodger 1B coach, George Lombard, has also been mentioned.
Just ask yourself this: Since Miguel Cabrera is the feature player and automatically batting 3rd for the next three years, is Tiger ownership/management dedicated to building a winning team and will the Manager even matter?
So, let the Tigers hire a homeless person like the Lions did.
Wrong link for Francisco. No worries. Easy mistake to happen. Still really good work and article.
Would Mookie have rose to stardom in Milwaukee? Maybe. Would Mookie have rose to stardom if he stayed at 2B? If Pedroia never gets hurt would Mookie have been traded later on? If Mookie went to Milwaukee would he have been traded again? Too many variables
All teams kicking themselves for not taking Betts. He lasted until the 5th round