For the first time since 1972, both the American League and National League played a season under a uniform set of rules. The institution of the universal designated hitter was one of several concessions made to the unusual circumstances of the pandemic-shortened 2020 season, as with pitchers already facing a heightened injury risk from a lack of normal preseason preparation time, the decision was made to spare the pitchers the extra stress of hitting. Both the league and the players’ union agreed that the DH would become a full-time feature of National League baseball for the first time ever.
What was the reaction? Well, it probably depended on how you felt about the DH in the first place. It didn’t quite stand out as much as other oddities of 2020 baseball (i.e. the automatic runner on second base in extra innings, or seven-inning games in doubleheaders) since the DH has been part of the game for almost 50 years, yet some fans of National League teams surely felt unusual watching games played in their favorite team’s ballpark without a pitcher coming to the plate. If you’re a fan of the Dodgers, Braves, or Padres, you probably learned to love the DH — having an extra lineup spot to house a big bat was a key reason why these three playoff-bound clubs scored the most runs of any team in baseball.
DH-free baseball has long been on the decline at many levels of the game, and the thought was that the universal designated hitter would eventually become part of Major League Baseball. With the current collective bargaining agreement expiring after the 2021 season, it has long been assumed that the universal DH would be one of the many issues to be debated between the owners and players. The 2020 implementation was considered to be a first step in that direction, and since the experiment seemed to work well, could the league and the MLBPA simply skip ahead and make the designated hitter permanent in National League baseball?
It won’t be quite so easy, of course. Commissioner Rob Manfred recently said that all rule changes applied only to the 2020 season, so any further changes like a universal DH would have to be settled after another round of negotiation between the league and the players. With the CBA talks looming and the contentious tone of the negotiations prior to the start of the shortened season still lingering, there may be no such thing as an “easy” decision between MLB and the MLBPA these days. It is quite likely that the league will try to gain some concessions from the union in exchange for the universal DH, and given how loathe the players have been to concede any ground to the owners, it may be difficult to find common ground on one relatively small issue without opening the larger can of worms that is the myriad of questions facing the sport in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Manfred’s statement about the DH and likelihood of a 2021 rules reset could also be a way of addressing the concerns of National League general managers. As the Padres’ A.J. Preller recently noted in regards to his team’s club option with Mitch Moreland, the Padres are a little unsure about how to proceed with deciding on Moreland or other roster matters until they know whether or not the designated hitter slot will be available. If the rules will revert to their pre-2020 state, Manfred was essentially telling Preller and company to prepare as if there won’t be a DH….until, maybe, there is?
As we get closer to Opening Day 2021, MLB will have a better idea of how (or if) the next season will proceed, whether that manifests in another shortened season, fans in the stands, or many other factors related to the state of the pandemic. It could be that the 2020 rules are re-implemented around, say, early March if it becomes apparent that a normal 162-game schedule isn’t feasible.
But, many player agents and MLBPA members are undoubtedly aware that the lack of a DH spot will mean fewer roster opportunities for players this offseason. Players like Moreland could have their options declined, defensively-challenged veterans will be less in demand, and even some of the bigger-name designated hitters will again see their markets limited to the American League. Like MLBTR’s Steve Adams observed in regards to Nelson Cruz, the slugger’s desire for a two-year contract would be much easier to find if all 30 teams were candidates (at least on paper) to sign Cruz this winter.
With all these factors in mind, do you think the league and the players will work out a deal for a universal DH in 2021, or will the National League get at least one more years of pitchers at the plate? (link to poll for Trade Rumors mobile app users)
Manfred litteraly said no so…2022 at the earliest
This.
Of all the new rules, the runner on 2B is the worst. Fans want to see legit extra-inning epics, not gimmicks designed to end the game ASAP. Some of my best memories are from games that went into the 12th inning. As for the DH, I have one question that nobody could ever answer: If pitchers are required to hit, then why aren’t hitters required to pitch? Lastly and sadly, the expanded postseason will probably happen again. They want the additional revenue, and are willing to water down the product to get it. There’s an old saying that applies here, once they have their hand in your pocket … it never comes back out.
yeah i had no idea that people were unhappy with long extra iinning games. I understand people not liking that a low scoring 9 inning game goes 4 hours because the OCD pitcher does jumping jacks in between pitchs but extra inning games are so much fun. It’s like do you like baseball? here’s free extra baseball that could decide the game at any time!
“If pitchers are required to hit, then why aren’t hitters required to pitch?”
players are required to hit and field a position on the field. I dont see a designated hitter on the field playing defense at any point. Each position requires different skills. Do you see Prince Fielder playing shortstop? Perhaps Jose Reyes playing catcher, maybe aaron judge who constantly has muscle issues stretching out during a double play playing first base.
I have seen a fielder Sandoval pitch a game, Ohtani plays both, Degrom swung a decent bat. Hell Todd Frazier had the best era of all the mets relievers even though he only pitched an inning. Maybe they should have actually used him more. Rick Ankiel had a year or two of decent pitcher and was a solid outfielder too.
so a hitter should play a position in the field you can have a bad pitcher that swings a hell of a bat if you like, just like you can have a bad defensive catcher that swings a good bat or a great defensive shortstop but swings a horrible bat. The only difference is that pitcher and catcher requires certain skills that are involved in literally every pitch.
I think it’s a tv thing people at the ball park actually going to game I don’t think mind.
12thing is one thing. 16h+ innings? no. created logistical nightmares for teams from roster management and player health to issues with staff (overtime hours) and fans — who often leave without seeing a finish to the game not to mention affordable public transportation shuts down in some cities.
it is a tv thing as well as others. Stations pre-empt programming and advertising sales and schedules get messed up costing stations income. Fans don’t see all the practical reasons why minimizing long xtra inning games is appropriate.?
Thanks for the argument from 1975 when pitchers also knew how to hit.
that’s management fault for using 3 pitchers an inning. pitchers all thinking they can throw 105mph but can only last 1/3 an inning. pitchers somehow going only 4 innings in a game every 5 days. pitchers getting hurt every freakin day.
Even though pitchers are required to field their position, they are almost never referred to as fielders. Every player has a “designated” role on the team. The offense (hitters) take turns hitting, does the defense take turns pitching? No they don’t, they have a player who is the “designated pitcher” to start the game and they have “designated relief pitchers” in the bullpen during the game. They even have “designated bench players” to start the game. So why shouldn’t there be a “designated hitter” as there is a “designated pitcher”?
And the reason why 99.9% of fielders don’t pitch is because they don’t know what they’re doing and they would be putting themselves at risk of injury by pitching. Are you old enough to remember what happened to Canseco when he pitched an inning? It’s the same thing with pitchers hitting and running the bases, most of them don’t know what they are doing and I can list many injuries sustained by pitchers as they were batting or running the bases.
And BTW you actually made a good argument FOR the DH when you brought up Ohtani and others. He’s a darn good hitter, without the DH he wouldn’t be allowed to hit in every game that he’s not pitching in.
And because there was no DH in Babe’s days, he was forced to quit pitching … which was a shame because he was actually an excellent pitcher.
It is a low attention span issue. People want instant gratification. I love a 12 inning game occasionally. Always exciting.
Yeah. I mean if you want to add a runner on 2nd after the 18th inning or something, fine. But not in the 10th.
“If pitchers are required to hit, then why aren’t hitters required to pitch?” The answer was right in front of you. One hitter is required to pitch. In the NL, he usually bats in the 9th spot of the lineup, but sometimes he bats 8th. Seriously though, what do you want? Do you want every player in the lineup to pitch one inning? who plays his position while pitching? it kinda feels like a philosophy question, since not matter what hitter pitches, he will be the pitcher, even if a pitcher fills his spot defensively.
The penalty for failure to win in regulation (read under 15 innings) is that you have to exercise an option on a career AAAA guy to field a team the next couple days.
This is a problem that doesn’t need to be solved. Baseball has, since 1869, been a game of series where a manager has to manage not only to win today but tomorrow as well. Why, in an era where travel is easier, rosters are expanded, the 10 day DL etc… why do we need to dumb down that for today’s manager?
Because the 15 inning game is vanishingly rare. Like 1/4 of 1 percent of games go to the 16th. When it happens it is memorable, exciting, and grabs headlines.
Extra inning, sudden death baseball, is a great brand. Frankly, I’d rather they did something to curtail blowouts rather than close games. (Slaughter rule!) The weekly 4.5 hour 13-2 game is the problem, not the 5-4 16 inning nail biter that turned on every pitch from the 8th inning on.
Huh? That’s like saying why aren’t catchers required to play SS
It’s called competition, a game takes what it takes.
Here in Seattle a number of years ago the Mariners were involved in a 19 inning affair that was decided by a Mike Cameron walk off homerun.
Who wants to battle and then go home with no result, or go the softball route and put someone at second to help things along?
If I wanted softball I’d dust off the glove and play softball.
Baseball is a game of strategy, not of, we’ll play until it’s no longer conducive to some higher up and a tie is just fine and dandy.
Its competition.
How would Harvey Haddix’s perfect game for 12 innings been affected by that stupid rule?
Agree with vonhayesswollenmember, runner on 2nd starting in 12th or 11th
I actually liked the 7inning doubleheader idea. Why not keep it when postponed games need to be made up? Never wanted DH in the NL, but decided it wasn’t so bad. Runner on 2nd in extra innings, never again.
I think it happens. Once you budge it’s over. Too bad I’d rather not have a DH at all.
the idea was for the rules to be a 1 off for this year. if nothing is done, the status quo will return.
Because the CBA is up after 2021, the owners are sure to make those extra 15 starting jobs a bargaining chip. Expect the universal DH in 2022 for sure.
DH and Pitcher in same Lineup.
when did he say that. he said it will be hard to negotiate but he also said most rule changes will most likely stay
I can’t wait to see Aaron Nola hit this coming season……..
Time for the Kershaw October choke job tomorrow for pivotal Game 5
Classic
Great game tonight. One for the ages.
Gee MJ. You are a bit of an idiot, ey wot?
I’m really surprised Manfred hasn’t pitched the idea of no pitchers batting with only 8 lineup spots so shorter games.
But..8 lineup spots wouldn.t shorten games..It goes based on innings not number of players batting
5 ball count to shorten games. Boom.
The question is, who doesn’t want DH on both sides?
More runs, fewer strikeouts (theoretically), more excitement, less chance of injuries to pitchers. Isn’t that what they want?
It takes some strategy and decision making out of the game, like whether to pinch hit for a starter that is performing well in order to have a better chance at keeping a rally going. It also forces pitchers to get into the game a little bit more and not just spend all their time on the mound or in the dugout, which I like.
At the same time, I understand why people like the DH.
Every point made for and against the DH is valid.
Yes, it improves offense; and yes, it detracts from strategy.
That’s why (if I had a vote) I would be against the NL adopting the DH rule: without it, MLB is able to showcase both brands of baseball. A little something for everyone.
As well, since the inception of the abomination that is inter league play, the DH is the last separation of the leagues.
For my money, one of the special things about the Majors (note the s) is that MLB is an umbrella organization overseeing two separate professional Leagues (again with an s).
That idea is almost completely lost now. If the leagues have the exact same rules, play the same style of baseball, and have routine crossovers built into the regular season schedules, then they might as well just be called Conferences.
I know that this is all “progress” but once the homogenization is eventually complete, I’ll sure miss the days when we had two Major Leagues.
How about use the DH spot for anyone on the bench that hasn’t played yet. This way you get more offense plus the manager has to make strategy decisions on who to bat and who to sub in for.
If you DH you are still eligible to play the field. Once you’ve played the field, you can no longer DH.
Personally I like inter league play I wish they would have made the DH at the NL league parks and no DH at the AL parks to show fans the different style.
Great post, Starscream. Summed up all my thoughts better than I could have.
Starscream, you act like the MLB was always supposed to be set up as two separate kinds of baseball or something and that there is something perfect about that set up…?
You know the leagues had the same rules for a very long time until the DH was introduced to the AL, right?
And then suddenly each league was playing a slightly different game…I’ve never heard anyone so enamored with this arrangement that they created some kind of ridiculous mythology to reinforce its importance
It’s a travesty that the leagues play by different rules! It’d be one thing if they never actually faced each other, but even if it was just the WS it would still be wrong in my book
They should either both have it or neither should…it’s about fairness, not “showing a different style of baseball”
If you want different go watch something else (Minors, college, KBO, etc.)
I’d think the players would want an even playing field
ABStract, you act as if when you leave something in place for nearly FIFTY years that they haven’t created a norm. For those of us (which may or may not include you, I don’t know) born after ’72 this is what we know, and for many of us what we like- the style of play a lot of us have watched for our entire lives. It doesn’t matter the original intent, this is what is. You change it and you’re going to alienate a portion of your fanbase. Can baseball afford that given their position in the sports market?
Let’s just end interleague play altogether. It’s unnecessary. Then everyone has a level playing field, if that’s the issue. I don’t like interleague play, anyway. World Series can go by the set of rules for whichever team has the best regular season record, putting more emphasis on regular season wins.
No it doesnt. Old people just act like theres huge decscions to make.
Plenty of people don’t want DH on both sides. Don’t pretend you’re unaware of this. (Also, more runs doesn’t equal more entertainment, not to everyone.)
I just want the leagues to have a different style of play so that there’s interesting variety and a reason to follow a team in each league. The DH was part of that. But that ship has sailed since MLB has done everything in their power to make the leagues exact replicas over the last few decades.
I don’t want the DH in the NL. Leave things alone. I hate the DH in general, but the AL had it long before I was born- so I’m not going to say do away with something long established over there. As others have said, having the difference in the leagues satisfies everyone who enjoy the different styles.
No it doednt. Im a padre fan, pitchers hitting is stupid.
You just say that because you are one of the 3 teams that benefited the most
I’m a Braves fan. My team would arguably benefit from the DH. I still don’t want it.
I remember when each league played a different style of baseball. If a player was traded or signed by the other league it didn’t guarantee they would have the same results. Some players did much better after they changed leagues. I don’t like inter league play, it takes away from the World Series. The DH in the national League would be great because not all pitchers knew how to hit or bunt, for that matter.
You guys all know that there was NO DH IN THE AL for most of MLB history, right?
As baseball was conceived and played for decades, BOTH LEAGUES HAD THE SAME RULES!
MLB was not created with two ways of doing things, this was a later addition that is in no way too sacred to be changed!
And the DH wasn’t added to give viewers more styles of MLB to watch, it was expected to be tested in the AL then to be added to the NL eventually, but the NL fought it…
The DH is not a holy rule of the MLB gods or something
I’m blown away by the lack of historical knowledge I’m seeing in the comments
I enjoy pitchers hitting. Especially when they can hit decently well. I also, though, liked the DH being universal this year, so I could go either way, though I somewhat lean towards the UDH staying
“Who doesn’t want DH on both sides!” Stupid question asked as if you are unaware that many DON’T want it. Feigning ignorance does nothing to strengthen your point.
Man I wish they would be indecisive on the matter so that the Mets trade Dom Smith or Alonso to Texas because that will happen….
Who you going to give us lol? They probably just sacrifice defense this year with smith at LF so that in the future they are both DH and 1st. Davis would be the one to go
There is no way the Mets should give up on Alonso after one below average season
LOM the rangers dont have the pieces to get alonso.
This seems like an easy one to me. It doesn’t harm the owners and the players like it. If they can’t hammer this out this winter, that doesn’t bode well for full CBA negotiations.
it will harm the owners as they will be paying out slightly more as a dh would most likely be paid more than say a utility infielder, a dedicated pinch hitter, or a mop up guy in the bullpen for that roster spot. Thats also assuming that they dont add a roster spot specifically for the dh like they did this season. Also not sure how the insurance works having that additional person/salary may cost more in benefits and insurance for the owners. .
This is the reason the owners will use it as a negotiating tactic as saying it will cost them more money than what are you going to give them for that. Perhaps a bigger percent of the revenues for the playoffs? Maybe a lower cap allocation for drafts, maybe making qualifying offer be the average of the top 200 contracts instead of i think its the top 125.
The notion that owners will scream poverty regarding paying a DH is laughable.
How many of these owners have been completely alright with leaving millions on the table with less than half filled stadiums, year after year.
Its sickening, and what is even more sickening is the torches that fans carry for these guys.
Spend some money, get competitive, put some fannies in the seats then owners can cry, until then owners need to be branded with a scarlet letter everytime they moan about money.
No, but it will be in 2022.
I don’t really like it but I’ve been resigned to the fact that this is coming for a long time. I think they’ll temporarily have it again next season, since I think there’ll still be some restrictions at the start of the year. And then in 2022 they’ll just codify it and that’ll be that.
So we are all assuming that everything with Covid will be done with when the next season starts?! Yeah there will be a DH in 2021….and when the new CBA is in place it will stick
I’m sure the players are in favour of the universal DH, it means more jobs for bat-only players.
The players should favor it, the DH extends careers.
pitchers might disagree
For the hardcore fan, the games have less strategy & intrigue. Players that come up as bat-only & play lackadaisical defense don’t see the field, meaning there’s less “hit it at that guy”. No more Ryan Howard on defense, etc. The bench is also basically meaningless for most teams. The Braves had guys on their bench for nearly the full season that got less than 10 at bat’s. The bench exists for players with minor injuries or need a rest.
For the average viewer, the added (likely) power bat means more homers. They don’t notice strategy in the first place.
@yeti
There are relatively few players who are great hitters AND great defensive players as well. The league is full of iron glove hitters and defensive specialists who couldn’t hit a breaking ball with a telephone pole. Too much specialization is somewhat of a disincentive to improve, at least IMO.
And you are correct about strategy. A few months ago my son asked me why a players’ teammates were congratulating him for grounding out. “Because he hit a ball to the right side with a runner on second.” That runner advanced to third with just one out in a tight ballgame.
I miss the days of Mike Schmidt and Graig Nettles… I guess we do have Matt Chapman
Hey, at least we got 3 WS to watch Bochy work his strategic magic before strategy is completely lost
That guy was a freaking master
Sadly, I think this is the rare time when the fact that both sides sort of want it means it actually won’t happen next year, just because of how contentious the relationship between MLB and the union is. Both sides want to use every single issue as a bargaining chip, and no one wants to give up anything for “free” – so we’ll have more blustering on both sides all off-season, but nothing will be in place until after the new CBA. I hope I’m wrong, I’d love to see it here to stay, but I don’t have any faith in the goodwill of these 2 parties right now.
Sad that after seventeen years of consistently watching Baseball, I may have watched my last game in 2019.
I was a Yankees fan that became a fan of the Mets in 2013 because I prefer the NL with the Pitcher bunting,the Pitcher being Pinch Hit for,the Double Switches and the strategy.
Now the DH will be everywhere?
Makes me want to vomit!
That’s definitely not enough!
The runner on 2nd extra inning insanity?
Just that alone,destroys the great Sport of Baseball.
Go watch another Sport if you even think for one second this festering piece of manure is acceptable!
I feel sad for Baseball fans that are having America’s Favorite Pastime hijacked and disgraced.
We have been thrown in the trash by those in charge.
We don’t matter!
My heart was broken a long time ago!
Absolutely. Baseball has been around for so long, and these rule changes aren’t going to be good for baseball. I don’t care about the universal dh, but the extra inning rules, the double header rules, I mean come on. Who doesn’t love watching extra innings? Those are the best innings to watch. Why would you change that?
Yes the problem with baseball is close games – said nobody ever.
This hurts the Mets the most and help the Braves the most lol
What helps the Braves the most? Keeping the dh or getting rid of it?
Probably keeping
The Braves have the most top heavy lineup I’ve ever seen. Don’t expect TDA and Duvall to be elite bc they are for a 60 game season
The Braves don’t have a Dominic Smith. They had Ozuna this year, but won’t next season.
The DH definitely helped the Mets the most. They have a million garbage defenders to rotate around the DH hole. Smith, Davis, Cano, Pete Alonso.
If you’re a Mets fan you better hope for the DH.
Yep, having the DH would definitely help the Mets maintain their stranglehold on the 3rd worst record in the NL.
Yup
Where do you think he goes? He loves ATL
@tward09:
Everything being equal, I think Ozuna would sign with Atlanta. There will be a team (like the Twins and Josh last year) that offers a lot more in years and AAV than Atlanta will want to pay.
The Mets have a whole team of DHs. They need to get a few who can field.
It should come but most likely it will be rolled back so it can be used as a bargaining chip in the next CBA negotiation.
Will they have it? maybe…Mlb can be unpredictable at times and manfred doesn’t seem to use logic often so who knows
Should they have it? 100% yes. Hitters are paid to hit, pitchers are paid to pitch. I hate watching hitters pitch and hate watching pitchers hit. It’s a free out… how can anyone from any team justify giving an automatic out multiple times a game? It’s kinda ridiculous honestly
That’s incorrect. Baseball players are paid to play baseball. Given your argument, should they also use designated fielders? Why player an inferior bat at Catcher or MIF, or an inferior fielder at 1B or Pitcher?
1 ,hope not….. 2 ,whats the dodgers excuse if they lost the w.s. to tampa,” they didn’t cheat?”
Something will come put about the Rays possibly cheating, which, I highly doubt they would do
I’ve always hated the DH… but, I’m on board. I like it now.
In a perfect world I’d like to see an 8 man batting order… but that’ll never happen. So a DH is fine.
Just get rid of the stupid runner on 2nd in extras and the 7-inning double headers. Those are a joke… and please, get rid of the juiced baseballs.
Lower the mound if you want more action. Give me 10-15 hits per side each game, with a few extra bases and maybe 1 homer per game.
Short stops and center fielders shouldn’t be hitting like Mo Vaughn.
I often see people post that the players are overwhelmingly for the DH but that is speculation.
As far as I know The Athletic did not do their MLB player poll this year, but in 2019 a slight majority of players were against the universal DH (53.7% No)
cubsinsider.com/2018/07/16/poll-names-javy-baez-am…
I imagine that players like the option of having a longer career and making more money once their fielding ability erodes.
They mean the Union, not necessarily the individual players. The union sees another starting job and, theoretically, the salary that comes with it.
Go to most high school games and pitchers don’t hit so now the ones who make it into the major leagues haven’t swing a bat since little league – that can’t be good.
middle school???
and by the way, I’m playing high school baseball right now and our pitchers are hitting
I don’t love the idea of the universal DH but if that’s where this is headed, it seems like there’s a possible compromise that would necessitate changes for both AL and NL, preserve strategy, and still increase offense: tying the DH to the STARTING pitcher. The starter doesn’t hit, but whenever he’s pulled from the game, the DH hitting for him has to sit as well, or take someone’s spot in the field after that point. The subsequent DH would bat for any/all relief pitchers who appear after that point, but could also be replaced for other players at the managers discretion.
It would probably necessitate another roster spot, but I think it would make the presence of the DH spot a lot more interesting.
NO !!! Leave game alone. All I have heard over the last few years is the game is to long!? How is every game 9 to 8 going to work ? 4th outfielder or 10 men is next. That’s beer league stupid,
100% agree
Hate to admit it but I liked it. Absolutely hate starting an extra inning wit that runner on second. That’s not baseball at all.
If it doesn’t, Manfred really is a literal joke.
How odd that of all things you’re going to tie Manfred’s competency to this? I’m not defending Bobby Manfred. Just can’t understand why one dumb gimmicky rule like the DH carries such weight?
I want the dh back. If they discontinue the runner on 2nd, call the game a tie after 12 innings.
Boring baseball is pitchers hitting and never ending extra innings games.
I love the shorter double headers
No, boring baseball is a 4.5 hour 13-2 blowout in regulation. Let us watch close games until they reach their natural conclusions. But consider a slaughter rule – managers increasingly using 5th outfielders to pitch in blowouts already are.
The MLBPA will lobby heavily for it. A lot of GMs, too, I would imagine, because it makes it easier to build a roster.
There should be more options to the poll.
no but hopefully
yes and hopefully
no and Manfred is an idiot
As a Braves fan, I’m in favor of it. It puts the NL on equal terms with the AL in inter-league and post-season play, as well as when trying to sign free agents.
The strategy aspect of NL ball is way overblown. And for every “hardcore” fan who favors NL ball, there are at least as many who prefer AL ball.
That said, the DH will not become universal until 2022 at the earliest. Bot sides want the DH but also will use it as a bargaining chip to get something else they want in the CBA negotiations.
It really isn’t overblown. It’s managerial strategy, that’s what people don’t seem to understand. It isn’t about pitchers hitting; no one cares bout that. It’s a chess match. Deciding to take out a pitcher having a good game in favor of a big bat of the bench. That’s a tough decision. And it’s now erased from the game. Watching NL games turn into 10-7 slugfests was really disappointing in 2020, BUT I fully understand the DH is here to stay. It creates more jobs. It creates more excitement for the casual fan (as well as some hardcore fans). I get it. I’m cool with it. It’s here. I fully expect it in 2022, if not earlier.
@Von Purple.
The ability to write down two names from your bench and to cross out two names from your starting line up is not a chess match. With a 25-28 man roster it’s hardly rocket surgery. Regardless, I like the difference in rules.
The NL league can maintain it’s supposed cerebral supremacy, and personally I like small ball and the scrappy crafty manufacturing of runs.
What I don’t get – and I’m asking a few people – is the antipathy about regular season interleague play. As an A’s fan surely you’ll get more butts on seats if interleague games involve the Dodgers, Giants, Padres where away fans can travel a relatively short distance to watch their team?
It’s more than the ability to write names off a bench. Pulling a starter early during a good start to get some more runs on the board is a tough decision that doesn’t always pay off, but is sometimes worth the risk. It also increases the need for Middle Relief depth in the NL.
As for interleague play, not every city has an interleague rival. It works for CA or NY, but what about teams like Philadelphia, Toronto, Atlanta…etc? Also, what if your interleague rival is the best team in the league and your division rival’s interleague rival is the worst team in the league? Creates balance of schedule issues.
Nothing is ever simple between these two sides but it seems the compromise here is expanded playoffs for universal DH. Each side gets something they want.
Mangled is killing baseball. I never thought I’d say this but I’d love to have Bud Back!
Me, too.
Before 2020 I was against the DH. After 2020 I am now on the fence leaning toward the dh side.
The issue is that not every team in the NL has a dh. The Braves for instance got lucky this season having Ozuna. If they added it in 2019 the Braves would have probably been hurt by it without having a DH.
This season the Braves had bench players that rarely saw the field at all because the DH took the strategy out of the game. Way less pinch hitting options over the course of the season.
So there are arguments for both! I am leaning toward universal DH though.
I remember an odd game back in 1986 when the Mets were out of position players late in the game because of pinch-hitters, double-switches and ejections, and had to put a reliever in the outfield. They rotated Roger McDowell and Jesse Orosco between pitching and fielding for three innings depending on who was batting. Crazy stuff that I don’t think would have happened with a DH.
I was dreading the DH at the start of the season. After watching marcell ozuna in left field it changed my mind
The DH should be an easy olive branch for each side going into the CBA in a year. Instead, it will probably get tabled until the CBA because they think other matters take precedence right now. They will take a change that benefits just about everyone involved and find a way to make it contentious.
Should have had this proposed as two polls, which could provide three answers.
1. Will there be one – Yes
2. Do you want it – No.
3. Do you feel non-baseball people ie the lawyers and statisticians who are running the game have more power than baseball people and fans.- Yes
When attendance drops they will know why.
I don’t think attendance will drop if the NL adopts the DH. People will adjust. They always have.
For people saying the DH eliminates decision making, it really doesn’t. Everyone knows a pitcher is going to bunt with runners on and less than 2 outs. Everyone knows they’re going to be pinch hit for a some point. Everyone knows a double switch will happen at some point. No one is caught off guard when there’s no DH. There’s really no argument against it, just an opinion of not liking it.
You’re missing the decision making point. You’re down 2-1, but your starter is throwing well. It’s the 6th inning. He threw 85 pitchers. He can go a few more. You have runners on first and second with 2 outs. Do you pinch hit to score the runs? Or do you leave your starter in since he’s pitching well? That’s the type of decision making that’s completely gone from DH baseball.. For better or worse.
Yet for all the so-called “strategery,” everyone pretty much always knows what decision is going to be made. So what’s the big deal? All it does is muck up the box score and make it illegible to casual fans trying to pay attention and expand their interest. How is that good for the sport?
I just provided a specific example of when everyone doesn’t know what decision is going to made.
Your points about casual fans are valid though. If “dumbing” down the sport increases ratings, then so be it. I out dumbing in quotes because I’m not poo pooing the DH. I get why some prefer it. I dislike it, and I think it makes the game easier. But I’m just one guy.
I honestly don’t care. It has exactly zero effect on the entertainment value of the sport. Do it. Don’t do it. Frankly, I’m just sick of the debate over it.
When’s it going to be time to start talking about things that actually might help the sport attract fans? Like marketing players, or reducing the effects of analytics on the fan experience.
No they won’t, but I hope they will. I am finally sold.
As for those that say it eliminates strategy, that is not accurate. The Marlins played a lot of small ball this season with the DH, and our primary DH/1B combination of Jesus Aguilar and Garrett Cooper allowed for a small ball approach as Cooper got in the lineup regularly to take his quality ABs where he looked to slap a hit or put the ball in play for other run-manufacturing efforts by our team.
Marlins lineup is horrible. DH or not it shouldn’t affect them not scoring lol
“Even in 60 games, the Marlins will finish 15 games out of fourth place; 25 games out of first.”
“The Marlins will be in last place soon.”
– MetsFan22
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!
Not the marlins fan who actually thinks it would have lasted
Not every team can load up on leadoff hitters that can’t hit their way onto base when a pitcher throws them strikes. Some teams have to depend on guys that can actually score runs when it matters.
It’s a big factor when a team has good fielding and team speed that can manufacture runs. Some teams wouldn’t know about those concepts though.
I didn’t read thru all the comments so someone may have touched on this, but are there any leagues, besides the NL, that don’t use the DH? Everywhere I have lived, the DH is used in HS, college and club ball.
I liked the expanded roster as well. It gives you more pitching options. You could potentially give pitchers more rest between appearances and preserve their arms.
I personally am one that has never understood how you can have an unfair playing field between the two leagues. you either need to have both with a DH or neither with a DH. Certain teams shouldnt have the ability to sign players that other teams cant sign because of losing a batter in their lineup. lets face it their are great hitters that cant field but it shouldnt mean half the league should only have the right to sign them and force them to play the field and handicap the team defensively just to keep them in the lineup to hit when other teams can pay them top dollar to just hit. Essentially you allow half the teams to have a great hitter on their team that the other teams cant have without causing problems in the field. baseball is the only sport without a level playing field between leagues which I have never understood. I am not for a universal DH or against it, just want a level playing field where all teams have to deal with the outcome of signing certain players the same.
I think they should play DH free baseball when it’s NL vs NL.
One thing I like about the DH is it lets the pitchers do what they do best. If it’s a close game in the 6th and your pitcher has been dealing, but his team’s nine spot is coming up to bat with men on base, you don’t have to pull him for a pinch hitter. He can keep pitching and maybe get a complete game or at least give the team an extra inning or two.
NL teams don’t even try to play “old school” baseball anymore. Make the DH universal for 2021.
I will be surprised if it gets instituted in 2021, I think partially because people want to prove that after having the dh in 2020 that it is less compelling to not have it.. manfred said that the rules are going back to normal so I wouldn’t expect that to get reversed before the cba
Dump Manfred!
There are plenty of pitching strategy in the AL too. I’ve seen managers leave pitchers in the game too long because they didn’t have to worry about taking them out to hit or using a double switch. So much information is available to the managers of today. The good managers in today’s game are able to piece the analytics together with the human element to produce the desired outcome.
The use of “loathe” instead of “loath” was funny. I suspect Mark did it on purpose!
If you ever watched Frank Howard, Felipe and Matty Alou, Alex Johnson, Don Baylor, Rusty Staub or Dave Kingman play the OF, you would appreciate the DH more. The DH has given us David Ortiz, Edgar Martinez, Hal McRae and so many others. I just wonder had the DH been implemented sooner and over inboth leagues, what could’ve been with Tony Oliva, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey or the endless list of great hitters who’s defense was limited.
NL owners don’t want it. It will cost them nearly twice as much as they pay any other position to add a DH. About $5 million per season per team.
Because of that it wont happen until the new CBA in 2022
Bro, can you just stick to one account? You can’t possibly think you’re fooling anyone hopping on the same soapboxes. If you’re looking for camouflage this ain’t it.
May be an easy cop out but I’m okay with games ending in a tie, after 12 innings if nobody has scored game ends in a tie. Keeps arms and players fresh from having to slog through 13-15 inning games when they have to come back to the ballpark and play only a few hours after.
How about getting rid of it I both leagues.? Like to get rid of all shift sh…..t also.
How do you get rid of a shift?? Its called hit the ball where they aint ,and the shift ends
If the offense gets to start extra innings off with a runner on second, the pitcher should start off with a 2 strike count.
Baseball is my first love with that said the universal dh is great along w/runner on second to start extras all the new implementations were great you need to understand that we need change to our great game even though it may be hard to absorb in the beginning we have to adapt cause haters want to slowly get rid of our game