The 2020 season ended in more disappointment for the Indians, who reached the playoffs but were once again unable to break a World Series drought that has gone back to their most recent title in 1948. The Indians may again try to contend next season, but it’s entirely possible they’ll do so without superstar shortstop Francisco Lindor. Although the charismatic four-time All-Star won’t even turn 27 until next month, he’s only a year from a trip to free agency, and odds are that the low-budget Indians won’t be able to extend him. With Lindor due to earn anywhere from $17.5MM to $21.5MM in arbitration, it could make sense for the Indians to listen to trade offers before next season. If that happens, here’s a group of teams that might inquire…
Yankees
- New York seems to have its long-term answer at shortstop in Gleyber Torres, but he had a so-so season, after which general manager Brian Cashman indicated he’s not a lock to remain at the position. With second baseman DJ LeMahieu set to reach free agency, the Yankees will have to address their middle infield in the coming months. What better way to replace LeMahieu than by acquiring Lindor? He’d grab short and allow the Yankees to move Torres back to the keystone, where he gained a large amount of experience from 2018-19.
Mets
- This should be an aggressive offseason for the Mets, who figure to change owners from the Wilpons to Steve Cohen. If Cohen wants to make an immediate, headline-grabbing impact, there won’t be many better ways than by acquiring Lindor. The Mets aren’t necessarily set at short, where Andres Gimenez and Amed Rosario were more OK than great in 2020.
Angels
- Regardless of whether the Angels acquire Lindor, they’re probably going to add a new starting middle infielder this offseason. David Fletcher’s capable of playing shortstop, so they’re not necessarily a shoo-in to pick up someone there. However, with Andrelton Simmons set to hit free agency, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see them add a high-profile replacement and keep Fletcher at second. The Angels, having missed the playoffs six years in a row, could decide to go big on Lindor. He’d look good in a lineup with Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon.
Braves
- The Braves received solid production from shortstop Dansby Swanson in 2020, but after failing to take home a championship once again, would they consider a sizable splash in their infield? It seems possible, especially considering their uncertainty at third base. In the event of a Lindor acquisition, the Braves could either move Swanson to the hot corner or make Swanson part of the (a) trade.
Phillies
- Shortstop wasn’t an issue in 2020 for the Phillies, who benefited after signing Didi Gregorius to a $14MM contract. The problem for Philly is that it may lose Gregorius in free agency, leaving the position as a question mark heading into the offseason. Lindor would make for a more-than-adequate Gregorius replacement if the latter leaves.
Dodgers
- Flaws are typically hard to find on the Dodgers’ roster, but considering their deep farm system and their penchant for pursuing stars in trades (Mookie Betts and Manny Machado, to name a couple in recent years), it wouldn’t be a surprise to see them involved in the Lindor sweepstakes. The Dodgers are fine with moving players all over the diamond, so even though there’s no clear “fit” for Lindor in LA – which boasts Corey Seager, Max Muncy and Gavin Lux among its returning middle infielders – the club could probably make it work.
Blue Jays
- Toronto already has an-up-coming shortstop in Bo Bichette, but perhaps the club would be willing to shift its infield around to accommodate Lindor after a playoff season. Bichette could move to second or third, giving the Jays an infield consisting of him, Lindor, Cavan Biggio and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. On paper, that may be among the scariest IF units in the game.
Reds
- A Lindor pursuit could be out of the question for the Reds, but they do need immediate aid at shortstop. Picking up Lindor would give the team a better chance to contend in 2020, and it would hand Cincinnati an opportunity to send Jose Garcia back to the minors for further seasoning.
Athletics
- The A’s may not have the financial clout to pull this off, but all bets could be off if it’s just for a year. Either way, the A’s, who are coming off a division-winning season, will have to figure out their middle infield before next season. Starting shortstop Marcus Semien is slated for free agency, leaving the A’s without a solution there for the time being.
Twins
- Considering Cleveland and Minnesota are in the same division, it seems unlikely they’ll match up on a Lindor trade. Still, if the Twins make a compelling offer, the Indians would have to listen. Adding Lindor would allow the Twins to move current starting shortstop Jorge Polanco into a utility role, though that’s assuming he wouldn’t be involved in a possible deal.
Cubs
- The Cubs already have a shortstop in Javier Baez, but he had a shockingly rough 2020 and does have extensive experience at second base. Maybe president of baseball operations Theo Epstein, who’s seeking to change around the Cubs’ offense, would acquire Lindor and move Baez to the keystone in hopes of giving the club a jolt. Chicago does have a notable young middle infielder in Nico Hoerner, but he hasn’t hit since debuting in 2019.
Alas, it’s finally time to see outrageous off-season trade proposals. I love it.
LOL! I was thinking this thought when I tapped on the article. =D
It’s easier to assess since the Betts trade. At least one very good controllable player plus one good prospect.
More than that actually. Don’t forget that the Dodgers only I’ve to give up those two because they agreed to also take Price’s contract.
Exactly. Any article or post in the comments about the Phillies spending more money on the lineup when it will take $40-70 million to fix the rotation and bullpen shows no more than 30 seconds of thought went into that idea.
The Phillies rotation was actually one of the strongest in the league (surprisingly). The bullpen? Eek…but a lot less expensive to fix.
On the flip side, they‘ll likely want to either re-sign Didi or find a replacement for him. While Lindor is a stretch (if for no other reason than the prospect cost—which we’d struggle to produce).
But adding a middle infielder isn’t at all a ridiculous suggestion.
Adding a middle infielder isn’t a stretch, but adding Lindor is. If the Phillies want to do more than just make the playoffs they need a reliable 3rd starter, another starter, and 2-3 good bullpen pieces. Add that on top of extending or replacing Realmuto, the fact that the Phillies have never had this high of a payroll in their history, and the lost COVID revenue and the idea of Lindor is silly.
I would really appreciate it if Cleveland would trade this guy just so I don’t have to see all the speculation about it. It’s been going on for years. Is that so much to ask? I mean, ultimately this is all about me, right?
Chief.. Just wait until he starts to hit free agency.
Once he’s not an Indian we won’t care
Elvis + for Lindor?
i really think the deal would have to center around odor.
They can have Odor and Elvis for Lindor. Where do I sign?
Please stop drinking. It is not good for your health.
what you don’t think they should get rid of odor? he’s garbage lol
Haven’t seen so much talk about Elvis and Odor since the king of rock and roll died on the toilet.
Hahahaha
That is really funny.
Odor? Lol he is horrible! Nobody WANTS Odor!
Don’t be so sure. With the new GMs and all the new MiLB system, its possible Rougned Odor could be bundled to offset salary.
The only un-tradeable player in MLB this season is Miguel Cabrera. A case can be made for everyone else.
This is beyond b.o. it’s b.b.o!
Joey votto. Hits like a replacement player paid a ton and has full no trade.
Here is my ridiculous Rangers trade proposal, but is it really that outrageous?
Lance Lynn and Johnathan Hernandez to the Astros for Forrest Whitley straight up.
Whitley’s stock is going down, the Astros need good starters, and J-He (I want his nickname to be J-Hey so bad… pronounced hey… like jay-hey) would be a big arm out of their pen to go along with Scrubb and Paredes for young pen arms. Plus, the Rangers front office and beat writers have said that they want to look towards more of a 1v1 deal for Lynn. That’d fit the confines quite well.
Outrageous?
I don’t think the Astros are ready to pull that plug yet. Whitley is still only 23 and has yet to start his MLB clock. This proposal would be DOA.
Lynn is a FA
Lynn is most definitely not a FA. He has another year left
What would be a reasonable trade for lindor and hand to the dodgers? Dodgers could use a lefty in the bullpen next year.
Elvis Presley?
No, he’s already left the building.
We’re the Flying Elvises!
Elvis is in the toilet right now.
Underrated Candidate: The Miami Marlins
Got the system to do it, would be a center point of their offence, a decent team need as well.
Marlins are very unlikely. Cleveland may want some of our young arms. We’re not interested in giving those up. And our OFs are there for us to sift through.
Now there is the possibility that the Marlins could move Isan Diaz if they aren’t thrilled with him, especially since Jazz Chisholm is up.
Cleveland’s strength is their starting rotation. Each starter is controlled for at least 3 more years. Their weakness is outfield offense. They will be looking for a controllable MLB or MLB ready outfielder.
I mean, they have the pieces to do it, but why morgage a lot of the future for one year of Lindor when he’s a free agent after 2021?
Exactly. The Marlins have some good young arms, and some interesting bats in the minors, but they are not going to be a real contender yet next season, so why mortgage any of the future, plus take on a big salary, especially after last years financial loses due to Covid, when they can save the prospects and $, and just sign him as a free agent next year if they so choose to(which I HIGHLY doubt). They are not one rental star away next year from being real World Series contenders imop.
Cleveland can not afford Lindor. Why do you think that the would want Andrus and his contract?
to be fair, with all the pitchers they’ve dealt they could extend Lindor
No Cleveland doesn’t have the kind of revenue to afford Lindor. He is the type of guy they need to get what they can for him and keep their strong player development going.
Every team has the means to afford a Lindor. The issue is spending big money on mediocre players that are near replacement level
Are you suggesting that Lindor is near replacement level?
Cleveland hasn’t spent big money on replacement level players. They spent small amounts of money on Cesar Hernandez (who had a better 2020 than Lindor) and a couple of minor pickups (Domingo Santana, Dom Leone) that didn’t work. Their extensions have mostly worked out- Ramirez is probably the best value in baseball, Carrasco is a top tier pitcher for cheap, even Roberto Perez has done wonderful things defensively that have more than earned his cheap contract. Carlos Santana is about the only bad one this year, but he was more than worth his contract the previous 2.
The Indians can’t afford Lindor because they make $40m on their cable deal while the Dodgers, Yankees, and Angels make $300m+. They really cannot afford a close to $150m payroll, and committing 25% or more of your payroll to one player is not a winning strategy. The only thing that would really solve that is equal revenue sharing.
Elvis makes much less than Lindor
Cleveland is not going to pay Elvis 14.25 million. Just stop.
Hmmmm…ridiculous trade suggestions time! And they will involve at least a couple of the fan bases that are notorious for ridiculous trade suggestions.
In the NL East, we know which fan bases those are. There are two of them. And they aren’t the 3 teams that play south of Pennsylvania.
Of course, E!SPN will take this stuff and report it as fact.
oh please…
No worries. All of us in the NL East know which fan base is the worse with these. Soon we’ll hear about Cano for Lindor or Ramos for Trout or Nimmo for Soto or Syndergaard for Kershaw, Buehler, Betts, and Bellinger.
I like the Mets (oddly), and I try to be more realistic with my proposals, but I know what you mean. All teams have die-hards, and that is multiplied x2 with Mets fans. All are die-hards, and all will provide their 2 cents on some pretty comical trades sometimes.
Granted it goes for all team, it is just magnified for… well, NY teams lol.
Remember when you said Harold Ramirez is better than Brandon Nimmo?
He is better than Nimmo. He just didn’t play this year because of Covid and then a season-ending injury.
Try again.
I don’t really see the Phillies as having many valuable trade chips.
Definitely see the jays getting a big name infielder this off-season.
In theory, there’s three ways Lindor fits in LA to me
First and more likely, if DH stays, JT re-signs as DH full time. Seager shifts to 3B, Lindor to SS, Muncy to 1B. Lux to 2B or re-sign Kike
2. JT re-signs to play 1B, Muncy goes to 2B, Lindor to SS, Seager to 3B. Not sure Jt is really a 1B and no, it’s not easy to be a good 1B for a great team. Dh stays rotation, Kike probably leaves
JT leaves. Kike leaves. Seager to 3B, Lindor to SS, Lux to 2B, Muncy 1B
They’re not trading Lux for Lindor. But they may hold him back.
I think 1->3 -> 2 are order of most to least likely
I think lux would make sense in the deal I don’t see the dodgers giving up anything else other than maybe something centered keibert ruiz? If they win the chip this year I doubt they would add him after all seager, buehler and bellinger are all going be very expensive
Like Adell comment below, I just don’t see lindor getting Lux or that tier of prospect
He’ll bring back a top 100 guy. But not top 10-20 that Adell and Lux seem to be
Jmo, but I don’t see it
Make sense, I’m just going on past trade deadlines like when we got manny and betts it cost us 1 top 50 player both times.
What would your trade proposal for lindor include from the dodgers if not lux?
Sure I hear ya. If he was lighting the world on fire in 2020 maybe it’s a conversation. But I think that would be an overpay, Adell or Lux, respectively
I think the Dodgers would be willing to discuss one of Ruiz or Gray as headliners. I don’t know the angels system as well, but a marsh level player would probably be a decent start. I know you said you’d like to keep him, I just honestly don’t know their system to suggest an alt, but I’m sure there are other guys in LAA system that could sub for marsh
Top 50 I think is a legitimate aim, maybe even with a lower top 90/100 secondary piece, depending on player 1? while Lux and Adell aren’t rookies anymore, they both were top 20 guys if not both top 10. There’s a significant prospect value gap from top 10 and top 50 guy. Tell me what you think, I’m just one opinion. I enjoy these convo about player value
I like the perspective from the dodgers angle. I too am a dodgers fan my father is an angels fan so I’m somewhat familiar with both prospect pools.
I personally would prefer to not give up gray (think he has the stuff to be a quality starter) and ruiz (just because quality catchers are so hard to find) I’m personally not very high on lux just don’t think the bat will translate but think he does deserves more at bats to truly see what he is potential truly is. (Lux reminds me of prime dan uggla, big swing big power don’t think he will hit for high average.)
If they believe in ruiz maybe something centered around cartaya or mitchell white (think white is a stud just doesn’t have a spot on the roster which could be an issue when price returns) Also since we wouldn’t have a true need at catcher when rostering ruiz and Smith for the foreseeable future cartaya could be a high upside piece for lindy.
From the angels perspective I think marsh is the future right fielder and would prefer to move adell (adell while a great athlete and no real weakness in minors his strike out rates and lower averages in the minors scare me) think he could by a Byron buxton/Justin upton type player at peak. Some of there other top prospects are infielder that are a ways way and the have a few arms I’m sure they would prefer to keep. Outside of adell, marsh and detmers they don’t have anything else inside the top 100.
My trades would look something along these lines:
Dodgers acquire: lindor
Indians acquire: cartaya/white plus an arm like Carrillo or grove
Angels acquire: lindor
Indians acquire: adell, Soriano/Ramirez
Nothing in reality tbh. Dodgers took their swing, and landed with Betts. Which is/was the perfect fit. The simple fact of the matter is the Dodgers are in a great spot to insert rookie minimums while also continuing to shed and spend on short term deals as their cornerstones are going to be up soon, especially if they can win 3 more. Their explanation will inevitably revolve around loss of revenue, and a championship more than buys them good will.
Then the added aspect that although May, Gonsolin, & Urias have provided to be tremendous they did so in a short season, and expectation for them to repeat both in reg season/playoffs would be a ridiculous ask next season into the playoffs. So their main need at the deadline next season would probably SP.
Call me crazy, but I don’t see a situation where the Dodgers entertain said notion especially with Seager showing. LA will be quiet for the most part this off-season in terms of guys outside the org, and do what they generally do and save assets to examine mid season needs.
Moving Seager to 3B to accommodate a trade for Lindor made some sense when it wasn’t clear if Seager’s body repairs were going to take. Now that it’s obvious that they have, the need simply isn’t there. Talking to Colorado about Arenado seems more likely, and not very.
Well 3B was mentioned way before injuries, because there was a worry he’d grow too big/slow to play SS. I don’t think that’s the case yet, but if you acquire a better SS, you move the lesser range to 3B. Look to SD.
Also, if you think Seager is going to bulk out, being healthy for a year+ in a row now, maybe you consider adding a lindor
I generally agree there’s a small chance LAD goes there. But if the package cost isn’t too extreme, they could get him even if they win a ring, going for the back to back. And if they lose, like Mookie, another big move to add firepower. Assuming they won’t spend because they win is severely understating how much this front office has done in the last 8 years. I don’t expect them to be satisfied. That hasn’t been their MO
I understand valuing marsh highly and the frustration with Adell. Truly I think angel fans saw an unfinished product this year With Adell. He will benefit from more minor league time imo
In general I think the Indians missed their chance to get a mega package. I think the return is gonna be underwhelming when we look at what fans expect. And maybe that means the angels can do it without marsh or Adell. But I don’t know if they have the depth, again I’m not an angels guy
With the dodgers, your reasoning is very valid and I think LA would take that deal depending on that 3rd piece. I don’t think LA wants to trade Ruiz, in general I agree. La is very good at trading from depth so your package does make sense
I’d like to see what Indian fans think/expect back
It’s fun to think about, but you’d be asking your star home grown SS who’s helped lead you throughout the playoffs to move off SS in a contract year. Secondly a guy who has never for all intents and purposes played the position to accommodate Lindor, as a pure rental. Those negotiations to re up Seager would go swimmingly with Boras. And in all honesty, it’s a completely different situation than Machado. With all due respect, that’s a complete type of fantasy trade.
So yes I could see the Dodgers shed some salaries to reup a Turner for short term AAV, trusting in their development pipeline that two to three years down the road Hoese is available. Now integral pieces, no, but selling high on Pollock & shedding Kelly, letting Joc, Kikè leave so on so forth. No different than the annual churning they are accustomed to. Money magically available to accommodate both Bellinger and Seager as the Turner’s, Jansen’s, Kershaw’s & to a lesser extent Price ride off into the sunset. Not saying they aren’t competitive as any other, wanting to continue to win, but I don’t think they are immune. I do think they continue to make deadline acquisitions to ease both the log jam at the upper levels and guys not in future plans as always, but realistically they probably will need that SP next year.
Betts was a rare opportunity, an owner and team so motivated by resetting the cap threshold, that it bucked their general wait to assess mid season needs. If you’re the Indians pure motivation is talent based packages.
Cleveland needs a controllable MLB or MLB ready outfielder in any Lindor trade. That is their biggest need.
From the moment he was drafted many outright assumed that Seager was too big to play SS. The fact that he has played almost nothing but SS for his entire career still doesn’t seem to put a sock in these theories. A move to 3B could still happen later in his career if/when he starts to slow down, but that time obviously isn’t now and could be many years off. In fact watching Turner’s play this year tells me he probably has another year or two of 3B in his body.
Who’s “Gray”?
Josiah Gray, presumably.
Two things. First I’m absolutely down to give Corey a 7 year, 28M/yr deal and see if he takes it. Lindor or not
2nd, if Seager thinks he can play 3B well, and may not sign with LA, why wouldn’t he want to showcase he can play a good 3B to his market? He’s entering FA next year along with 5 other high caliber star SS’s, at least. None of them play 3B, his only competition would be Bryant.
The market will be saturated with a bunch of natural SS, him showcasing he can play 3B does nothing to hurt his long term value
It’s not like he can’t play SS in 2022 again
This team is built to be a juggernaut. The only way you improve juggernauts is with stars. And the best teams make it work, if they want to. I’m just saying LA COULD make it work with lindor and Corey together
This team is built to be a juggernaut. The only way you improve juggernauts is with stars.
—————————————————-
That’s not the route I’d go. I see little to be gained by trying to improve the record of the team with the best record in baseball. I’d prefer to extend the juggernaut by a year or two by hanging onto my prospects.
You have the Dodgers giving up spare parts and the Angels dealing an elite prospect and more. Eh…
They are not trading Lux for 1 year of Lindor espcially if they win it all.
No way they trade Verdugo plus others for one year of Betts!
Actually last off-season every Sox fan was insisting that it would require Lux or May plus more. That didn’t happen. The price was much lower.
I’m a RS fan, but I find many of my fellow fans to be well-intentioned, but not overly insightful.
And the Boston writers are the worst in the country. There were a couple of writers that suggested that Betts had almost no market value, because he only had one year left, and was going to cost $28M.
And you had other writers who were thinking they were going to get May & Lux. It was like none of these writers ever heard of the non-elite prospects. Guys like Gray, Downs, Kiebert Ruiz, etc.
And when the trade happened, some of them had no idea who Verdugo was.
Save the money for the time coming to extend/re-sign Seager and Bellinger and Buehler.
Oh please. I’m saying pay lindor in 2021. Not 2022-2030.
His 20M or whatever in one year won’t make them unable to sign Bellinger and Co to long term deals. You can acquire a player just for one season
Sure you want to ask Seager to move to 3rd in his walk year? I’m thinking that could really throw a wrench in any extension talks. Get Seager’s deal figured out BEFORE making any big moves.
Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic, but I don’t think the Mets are at a stage where it makes sense to take on a rental like Lindor (assuming they even have the necessary pieces to make it happen)
Wondering what angels could trade to get lindor?
Maybe adell + Vera?
There’s no way Lindor gets Adell Now with one year of control+ a subpar 2020
Cle should be expecting Marsh+ To be angels offer imo
I’d rather keep marsh imo, I’d rather distance myself from adell, dude looks like Lewis Brinson to me.
I love the fits the listed on here I think angels, phillies, Braves, blue jays, dodgers, and twins would all stand to benefit from adding him to the squad. They also all boost nice prospect pools that they could in some form send in return to Cleveland.
The Angels are not getting Lindor. They don’t have enough to package with Adell or Marsh. What they can get with Marsh and Detmers is Carrasco.
Brinson was two years older when he made his MLB debut than Adell is now. I think age is important when comparing prospects, Adell has a very high ceiling
You’re vastly overestimating what one year of Lindor gets you.
If that’s all it took, I’d do that if I were the angels. I understand they need pitching, that might be too good a deal to pass
I agree especially with the hole from simmons being there. I think salary wise the can afford to sign both lindor and bauer if they really wanted. I would be surprised if a roster with trout, rendon, lindor, upton, fletcher and Ohtani doesn’t make a postseason. Great players!
The Angels are going to trade for Trevor Story instead of Lindor who also has one year left of control. They will send Canning plus prospects for him.
Dont see that as possible seeing as angels need pitching, they aren’t trading from a weakness to add story….also don’t see rockies taking that deal.
Angels could just go after Korean SS Kim and trade no one.
Possibly. The second base market is pretty deep, too. Sign Cesar Hernandez and keep Fletcher at short, maybe take Schoop on a short term deal and wait for the Pujols contract to expire.
There’s enough talent available to be able to replace Simba without draining much resources, including Simba.
Leave the Cardinals out? Move DeJong to 3B, possibly 2B and FINALLY get rid of Wong. Cardinals probably don’t match up with Cleveland’s needs though. So maybe Story could fit in STL under these circumstances.
Why would the Braves want to downsize to get lindor
look at the #’s Swanson is waay better with a bat!
Think the point is saying they get rid of Riley whos is pretty bad. Why would Braves not want to add him to Acuna, ozuna (potentially) and Freeman, and Swanson. Thats a great core.
Your probably right if you could get Swanson or Lindor to play 3rd. I never was on the Riley side, I always leaned more to Camargo with better defense and about the same bat
Hey, Braves fans. I know what James said about Riley vs. Camargo on defense had been the conventional wisdom before this year.
Were repeated references on Braves postseason broadcasts to Riley having surpassed Camargo defensively accurate, or was that a result of some good old-fashioned hometown spin?
Asking because I hadn’t seen enough of either this year to know.
IMO At 3rd Camargo has better defense and a better arm, you dont want Camargo at 2nd or ss. He also wont hit the HRS that riley would but i think he would hit for alot better avg being a reg 3rd baseman
Camargo doesn’t hit well enough to be a FT 3B, though. He never really lit the world ablaze during his time in the minors. He ran into one good season in the pros and then became what he is.
FWIW, I’m not sure Riley is the answer either with the bat. He just has a different set of flaws.
I think glove wise they’re about equal. I’d prefer Riley over Camargo just because Riley is always a threat to run into one, but I think 3B is a good spot for an upgrade.
The arm of Camargo is what makes me lean that way, but your right about 3rd being a good spot for an upgrade.
Riley has a cannon also so if it’s the arm you’re looking at, Riley is still far and away the better option.
you guys gotta chill with the Swanson love. he had good numbers in a short season. lets see if he can do it again. not saying he isnt good, but pundits are way too high on this guy given his draft pedigree.
@darkside sure you can be pessimistic but the defense is there, he is plenty valuable even if bat doesn’t replicate this season yearly. Swanson is still a great player imo.
Im with Ya
Dansby has had 3 pretty solid years, so he technically has done it again. More importantly though, he’s a gamer. He comes through in a lot of the big moments. He’s probably never going to be an MVP, but he’s a good player who’s been continually improving- hence the appreciation.
Probably???? He most definitely won’t. Not even close. Avg hitter at best, great defender. But any Braves fan who would even consider taking Swanson over Lindor should really get checked out.
From an Indian’s fan persepective, the Braves may be better off not pursuing LIndor. Swanson is no Lindor, but he’s pretty damn solid and when you factor in the cost to obtain Lindor then it gets a little harry IMO.
he had a great year this year and a solid year im 2019 but has otherwise been less then stellar. still id agree that its not worth making a move for Lindor, but i just dont think he’s as good as advertised yet in an era with many great SS.
In what way is Swanson better than Lindor? Im just not seeing it.
Unless Lindor’s new team (such as the Yankees or Phillies) can sign him to an extension, they will have the same issue when he leaves after one season (assuming they don’t sign him as a free agent): they will still need an infielder. That’s fine if they have something going for the following season. If not, they just delayed it a year. Of course, if they win a title in 2021, it won’t matter.
Philly is not and should not trade for Lindor. lacking expendable prospect ammunition, financial constraints, and a lack of a real pressing need. we’re not signing him to a huge extention with Harper on the books so the prospect cost could just cause a Realmuto 2.0 situation.
Uhhhhhhh Philly could be losing Gregorius to FA and they absolutely have the ability/personnel to make a trade for Lindor. The Phillies also have more than $63M coming off the books.
I think the Indians are not going to get much. Lindor has one year of control, at around $20m per year, oh, on top of it, teams are going to be hurting financially like never before after last season’s no attendance, 60 game only schedule. How many teams will want to(can?) add a huge one year salary right now, and pony up top tier prospect(s) also. Shoot, we are not even sure yet what next season, especially the first half, is going to look like, concerning possible Covid restrictions.
Just worth noting that the 60 game schedule had no effect on finances, since player salaries were cut accordingly as well. In fact, for some teams it was a net plus, since their TV contracts were not cut as much as payroll.
The no fans in stands thing definitely hurt, but some teams way more than others.
There is no way the pro rated salaries even remotely made up for the lack of fans for 81 home games/concessions, parking, playoff attendance, etc. There is also no way it made even close to that much of a difference to make up for a 63% loss in cable contracts/national tv revenue. The expanded playoffs helped some, but the players got their extra cut of that, and their was no real fan attendance, so it was very minor in comparison to the above. There, additionally, was the loss they assumed in administrative salaries, even with the layoffs. Plus, they paid minor league players and personnel for, at least 2 months, and some organizations the whole year, with zero income coming back. Lastly, who knows how Covid will affect financial matters next season. Will fans be allowed in stadiums next year? If so, when? How many? The Covid vaccine, assuming it is very effective(?), is not even expected to get to the general population until Q2-Q3. Teachers don’t even want to risk going back to classrooms until the end of the summer of 2021! Those are major loses for not only one year, but possible two. Oh, and the CBA is up at the end of 2021, and since the owners and players in MLB rarely seem to ever agree on anything, who knows the effects that could have on the 2021 or 2022 season? Both parties are going to be desperate to recoup large loses of income over the past season or two, so that makes for some potentially VERY UGLY negotiations.
Nick Senzel, Nick Lodolo, Jonathan India, and Jackson Miller for Lindor
Hahahahaha
If I were the Reds, Lodolo would be off limits. I was thinking Stephenson, Senzel, and India. However, if he is not off limits then I would absolutely do that trade, and you wouldn’t have to include Miller.
if it has to involve Senzel or Stephenson the Reds should just walk away. those two guys are franchise cornerstone type talents.
Milwaukee could be in this conversation as well, but I wonder if Cleveland is more likely to keep him and reassess things at the deadline.
Another challenge for any acquiring team is the 2021 season might also be abbreviated. How much will any team give for 120 games of Lindor?
This is a good point I made above. We, also, don’t know what kind of attendance will be allowed, and for how long? Not to mention, the CBA is up at the end of next year, so that unknown (since neither side seems to be able to negotiate with the other over almost anything recently) throws another potential wrench in the mix.
It makes zero sense for the Blue Jays to trade assets for one year of Lindor. They have bigger needs in the starting rotation & center field. It would be much wiser to use their money to upgrade those areas.
If they extend which I’m sure any team that trades for him would do he would make that lineup that much deeper and give them veteran leadership. It’s a great pick up
I just don’t see the Blue Jays giving Lindor a huge contract when they have Bichette, Biggio & Guerrero that they’ll need to lock up as well as other holes to fill. The Jays probably need 2 starters & they need a better CF than Grichuk. I’d rather see them sign Springer & keep their young assets than trade for Lindor. I’m perfectly fine with Bichette at shortstop.
> if they extend
It happened with Betts. But that is an extreme rarity.
Cubs? What do the Cubs have that would attract the Indians? Unless it was Baez+Horner+Alzolya, I don’t see any sort of match up between the two teams in a Lindor trade.
Why not throw in Bryant, Rizzo, Hendricks and Contreras. That oughta get it done
But I do agree, the Cubs will not trade for Lindor.
You obviously missed his point. He was saying trade those guys. He was saying that the only players of interest on that team are their bigger names, which Cleveland can’t afford and the Cubs wouldn’t trade.
All but 3 of these teams are from big markets
I hope Cleveland can find a way to retain him. Lindor is great, he’s been great to that organization, and he’s been great to that city. I’m sure he’d like to stay. It’s good for baseball to have legit stars in their small markets. If Milwaukee could pony up $200m+ for Yelich, can Cleveland for Lindor?
Good post! I know you and I have..struggled with each other but damn good post.
And that Yelich contract is looking like a massive mistake that will handicap the Brewers for years.
This is going to be Mookie 2.0 and Cleveland is going to look really stupid in a year, aren’t they?
If Cleveland got the equivalent of Verdugo, Downs, and Wong for Lindor, they’d laugh all the way to the bank.
And, just for the record, who’s doing that laughing on the Clevinger, Kluber, Mejia, etc.? Cleveland’s competitive advantage is assessing their players and trading those who have topped out on their value.
I wouldn’t count the Cardinals out!!
NYY Andujar & Nelson for Lindor.
Torres back to 2B
DJ to 1B
Trade Stanton to LAA or LAD
Voit to DH
Not a terrible suggestion, but with rumors that NY wants to get under the $210m tax threshold, the $ it would cost to pay Lindor, re-sign DJ, and they still need to find at least one good starter, if not two, to replace Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ, it would make it extremely difficult to get under that tax threshold, assuming that is their plan. Plus, who knows what their plan is at C also.
None of that is likely. Andujar is a favorite amongst Yankee fans to trade for any one but there is no value there. Stanton to either LA team makes no sense unless the Yankees are going to eat a significant portion of the contract. We don’t know if the NL will have a DH next season and Stanton’s best fielding days are behind him. The Angels already have Pujols and Upton’s terrible contracts and Ohtani to take DH AB’s so Stanton would be a redundant expense for a team thst needs pitching more than another broken down hitter
@dave neither the angels or dodgers want or need stanton. Angels would do it if it meant shipping upton back your way, outside of that there’s no match
Horrible ideas, Dave.
Nelson and Andujar for Lindor? Are you high right now? Because that’s the only way you could possibly think the Indians would accept that trade.
Also you want to trade Stanton to LAA or LAD? Seriously? The Dodgers are smart, so they’re not going to take on a contract that pays Stanton $30 million/year to play 20 games a season. And the Angels have no use for a big contract DH on a team that already pays Ohtani and Pujols.
The Yankees just took Cleveland out of the playoffs and they very well could meet again in 2021. If Yankees want Franky, they are not getting him for cheap. His value is pretty high in the offseason, given the fact that the acquiring team will at the very least get draft pick compensation if he walks after the season. If he is dealt at the deadline purely as a a rental, you’ll likely see a Machado type package, no blue chippers but a 2-3 solid prospects and 1 or 2 lotto picks. Jasson Dominguez 1 for 1 or Indians hold him until the deadline to see if they have a shot at a ring, if they are contending and have team chemistry and a healthy core, then keep him and settle for draft compensation.
First off the Yanks are not trading Jassson Dominguez! The kid is that talent you just don’t trade away especially for a rental 1 year player.
You’re right(about Jasson), but that’s exactly why you don’t trade your superstar shortstop to a team that just took you out of the playoffs, and will be playing 7-9 times next season and possibly meeting again in the playoffs. If you’re not getting what you want, you ship him off to the National league. Remember, the Yankees acquired 2 top-100 prospects from the Indians for 1.5 years of a 32+ year old ace reliever, yet you think they will just ship their superstar shortstop over for spare parts. Maybe a package featuring Frazier with a big league ready 3-4 starter (German, Montgomery, Schmidt) gets it done.
Hicks is a spare apartment??? Top 10cf that gets 10 mil per year through 2025? Voit who led the league in 3 big offensive categories and is in his prime. Andujar who two years ago was truly the rookie of the year and has without a doubt a middle of the order bat and still only 24yo who can maybe become a decent to average 3b? I don’t agree with anything you just stated.
Well clearly, you’re struggling with reading. The trade proposal/comment was Andujar and Nelson for Lindor. Andujar is a defensive liability and damaged goods, he’s never been the same since the labrum injury and Nelson might be a back end SP……so yea, spare parts. Good luck getting the value all Yankees fans think Andujar has.
Cleveland does not want any players making a large salary. Not even $10 mil per year unless they are a star. Expensive spare parts aren’t going to get Lindor.
Any trade with the Yankees would start with Frazier, period. Unless of course the Yankees would prefer to substitute Dominguez. The Indians need cheap OF with lots of control who can hit.
When you try to trade with a team for their best player it is not about just what YOU are easily willing to give up, it is about what THEY want. If the Yankees don’t want to trade Frazier the Indians will just trade Lindor to someone else. The Padres tried to trade their leftover spare parts and 1 quality player they were willing to lose for Betts. They didn’t get Betts. The Dodgers did. They actually had to give up multiple quality players/prospects with cheap long-term control.
Dave Frost nhlpa – First the Yankees are stuck with Stanton. He has a no trade clause and no team is going to want his salaries and injury worries. Second, Andujar and Nelson does not get you a package of Lindor candy, let alone, Francisco Lindor. Andujar can not play a defensive position ands is a DH only which does not help the Indians.
Andujar has close to zero value. The only interest he might draw is as a cheap DH.
I still don’t see why the writer thinks Gleyber is the SS of the future for NY. May have thought that coming into this season, but we have learned a lot from his full time playing at short. He’s 2b. NY has to sign or trade for someone for the future.
He’s not a SS. I found the entire article to be weak and scattered. Most of the teams mentioned already have SS’s, and aren’t going to trade real prospects for a mere upgrade.
IRT the NYY adding a SS, I think Didi should be a slamdunk. As a RS fan, I’d much prefer them sign Lemahieu to something like $80M/4 rather than have them sign Didi for $42M/3.
Didi is the epitome of a professional.
Great point on Didi – can handle NY with no issue, good D, LH hitter, and nowhere near what others will cost at the same position. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they rekindled their relationship with Didi.
3 team trade
Indians get – Voit, Abreu, Lux
Dodgers get – Lindor
Yankees get – Seager
The NYY get Lindor for Voit and a career minor leaguer?
And the LAD have a very slight upgrade from Seager to Lindor, and in exchange, give up 5 years of a top-5 prospect? Why not ask for Wil smith as well?
Seager > Lindor. No way Dodgers make that trade.
I’d love to see Seager hit in Yankee stadium in pinstripes…. nonetheless, I don’t think Voit or Abreu hold that type of value. Now, if you said Garcia, Urshela, Voit, I think they’d give it more consideration, but that’s not worth one year of Lindor to the Yankees given the control they have on those players and their desire to reduce salary.
My opinion, a win-now Yankee team outbids for JT. Realmuto, signs Didi and/or DJ, and trades some combination of Voit, Urshela, Frazier, Andujar, Schmidt, and Garcia for the vacancies they have remaining (most likely SP or strong RP).
Without knowing exactly what the Indians want in return its hard to speculate. The Angels, Cubs, and Yankees probably don’t have the prospects to trade. The Twins are probably out being a division rival. The Dodgers would likely have to include Lux in the trade, same for the Mets and Gimenez. A’s probably not. Reds, Braves, Phillies i don’t see it. Any team that trades for Lindor would likely want to know they can sign him to an extension before agreeing to trade anything of value
Cano+ for Lindor.?????
Lol I’m just playing a game with that marlins fan who made that ridiculous comment earlier.
Can’t wait till they are in last place last year and the dude doesn’t know what hit him. “I thought we were good after 60 game” lol
They beat the Mets.
Adell or Marsh plus other prospect capital for Lindor and an arm would make the most sense IF a deal goes down.
Not a chance. Adell is worth several times one year of Lindor. Just no way.
wow it must suck being an Indians fan. Why don’t they lock up any of their all stars?
The owner doesn’t realize the saying that you have to spend money to make money.
The Rays say hi.
1-They averaged 95 (prorated) wins per season the past 5 years. That might be #2 in BB, IIRC.
2-This is their MO, same as TB. Keeping your stars forever seldom provides value, or pays off.
3-They actually do lock up some of their players. Ramirez, Kluber, and Carrasco come to mind, and there might be one or two others.
The A’s are not a possibility. They have no prospects.
Of these options, the last one seems the most logical for the Tribe – trade with the team that destroyed your last chance to break the drought and get Hoerner as part of the return. Then, once again, you trade a star for someone that can’t hit. Now, if they could just trade J-Ram they will have totally destroyed the team, the fan base, and baseball in C-town for the next 10+ years.
@frozen
How do you destroy what does not exist. The fans don’t show when the Indians win.
In a prior post I suggested a trade idea that helped the Indians now who have the pitching and helped the Yanks try and get over the hump for at least one year.
Yanks send Hicks who makes 10 mil per year through 2025. Miguel Andujar who has an electric bat but still no real position other then trying 3b again, a young bullpen arm, and Voit.
Cleveland sends Lindor.
Yanks she’s some salary to take on Lindor salary and hopefully resign DJ to play first.
The trade isn’t awful considering everything going on financially in baseball and all the unknowns.
The only difference is you left out Otto. It’s still not a good trade or a trade they entertain by any means for the Indians. They have more than enough bat first better suited for DH/1B options in Reyes & Naylor. And let’s be honest those guys are devalued and easily obtainable. Add to that Ramirez and Jones. So you want the Indians to trade a franchise superstar for spare parts. Some like Voit that can hit, but you add 50/5 for a guy that hasn’t shown he can stay healthy and is not going to post in their top of lineup everyday? Yeah make complete sense for Yankees zero for Indians. It’s like your Stanton to Dodgers kick last season.
Hicks isn’t in your lineup everyday????? Hicks is injury prone but when healthy he is a top 10 cf by far and signed to a very reasonable contract in his prime. Add Andujar who if he can play average D eventually could be a huge middle order bat and then add Voit who led the entire league in HR and RBI and Slugging! I also added a young bullpen arm and you act as if getting Lindor for one year coming off a mediocre year is worth way way more then that? Stop!
Billy, If Hicks is such a value, why are you trying to dump him on the Indians? Who would then play CF for the Yanks? There are reasonable contracts for a big market team and ones for a small market team. Hicks does not have a contract that the Indians would want or trade for. If Lindor is traded to the Yankees, Hicks will not be in the deal. The Indians will not take on that contract.
Billy, do your homework on the Indians. Blue Painted is a Dodger fan, yet he has taken the time to understand the Indians in his comments.
And in that prior post, I explained to you that the Indians are not taking on Aaron Hicks and his contract, especially following their financial losses due to covid-19. You are correct that Andujar has no real position, but he is not going back to 3B on the Indians with Jose Ramirez. Indian President Chris Antonetti stated that Ramirez will stay at 3B and they are having their top prospect Nolan Jones, a 3B, getting reps in the OF and at 1B during the fall league. Andujar has no place on the Indians other than DH and they already have a DH. Your trade did not make sense in the prior post and it still doesn’t make sense for the Indians in this post as well.
The Cardinals could move DeJong to Third and Lindor at Short.
Agree let Wong leave and Edman to 2b!!
The Yankees offer Gleyber Torres and Luke Voit for Lindor and a reliever. Win-win for both sides.
Yanks are not dealing a young upcoming star in Torres for a 27yo ss in his walk year waiting on a huge contract coming off a mediocre season!
Seriously??
Mets give them Conforto or Nimmo if they like him better. Plus one of the SS, I’d say Giminez has more value so Cleveland takes him over Rosario and also JD Davis. Mets already has talks with them last off-season. I think Cleveland was pushing for McNeil. I go back and forth on how I feel about that. He may have now established himself too good a player for a one year rental. Unless they get a window to negotiate an extension. But the first three I mentioned, might get it done.
Can we please put Kenny Lofton in the Hall of Fame? Count the Hall of Fame seasons
If the Mets offer Nimmo, Giminez, and JD Davis. I feel that Cleveland counters with something like Conforto, Giminez and Dom Smith. I’d be reluctant to do that. The first offer, I’d be ok with. There was talk last spring of possibly moving Rosario to CF and I feel like that may happen if they obtain Lindor.
The Mets are not doing either for a rental
1-If I were Cleveland, I would take that deal. Conforto is probably good enough to warrant a QO after 2021, and should supply plenty of value in 2021. Gimenez is a rated prospect with a good year in the pros, and they’d have 6 years left.
2-The issue with Lofton is that he will be judged alongside Edmonds. And Edmonds has Lofton pretty much beaten across the board. Lofton has a career fWAR of 62.4 in 9,234 PAs, and Edmonds has a 64.5 in only 7,980 PAs. While Lofton was a better fielder, Edmonds still had 8 GGs. And the difference in OPS+ is 132 v 107.
That said, I have no problem considering Lofton, but I don’t think he is as good as Edmonds.
Fair. But I thought Loftons WAR was 68.3 or something like that. Ahead of Edmonds. Lofton was the best Leadoff hitter of his generation really. Super super under-appreciated. If you look at all time WAR on baseball reference, Lofton is amongst other above some legends. Ernie Banks for one Prime example
I’d rather if the Blue Jays tolled with Bichette for one more year at SS and then see if he is able to be slotted in there for the future or if he’ll need to move to 2B. If he can, you got a ton of assets to use on a different position. If not, throw all the money at Lindor/Correa/Baez and save your trade assets.
Voit, Andujar, Sanchez, Judge, Garcia for Lindor and Beiber.
Cleveland is not trading Bieber. The Indians would want no part of Gary Sanchez as they value defense at the catcher position. Sanchez is the complete opposite of what the Indians want in a catcher.
I don’t hate the idea of adding Lindor but I wouldn’t move Swanson to do it. He’s finally putting it all together. His 2.6 WAR would’ve been worth 7 over a full season. You don’t trade guys like that.
I’m with you on that. I’d trade Riley, one of the young catchers and a pitching prospect or two for Lindor. I know there will be some that say that isn’t enough, and that’s fine. It comes down to the control, though. The Braves probably wouldn’t extend Lindor, so it doesn’t make sense to go crazy.
First, the Indians have Jose Ramirez at 3B. Second, Riley would just add to the Indians stable of outfielders who do not hit.
I was thinking Riley for the Cleveland OF, but I totally get your point. I’m just not into the idea of an Atlanta/Cleveland match up on Lindor. I don’t want the Braves to pony up the price unless it came down to something like what I mentioned.
I didn’t like any of the teams mentioned, except maybe the NYY & Reds.
Gimenez is .already a good quality starter at age 22.
The LAA have to be focusing on starting pitching.
Atl is not replacing an increasingly good Swanson with 3 years left.
Philly has a hole, but are likely to offer a QO to Didi, plus their top $$$ concern will be the BP and Realmuto, and they can always move Segura beck to SS, and play Kingery at 2B.
Why would the LAD give up anything whatsoever to replace Seager with Lindor? I like Lindor slightly better, but he’s only a slight upgrade.
Toronto already has a SS.
The As wil likely offer Semien a QO, and teams like that cannot afford the gamble of having two $20M drop into their laps. And how often does Oakland trade for a $20M player?
Minny has a SS.
The Cubs are like the LAD, with a one-year SS option.
Most of the teams mentioned already have a SS. The idea that teams with a SS, will acquire a second SS, and then figure out what to do with their original SS, almost never happens in real life.
That said, I like the NYY, though I like Didi a lot more for them. But that requires allowing LeMahieu to walk. That’s a tough sell to the fans.
If Williams was still with the Reds, he’s traded good prospects for one-year rentals a few times. I could see the crazy sob trading Greene straight-up for Lindor.
That said, I am surprised Detroit was not mentioned. He’d be a nice upgrade over Goodrum, who could go back to 2nd. And now that Detroit has promoted their minor league rotation, now is the time to make some moves to engage the fans. And they were > .500 on 9/1, so they showed they can play. Lindor would be a good fit.
Detroit is not going to compete in 2021. Wasting prospects in lindor is foolish
You can argue they are a decent idea to sign him for 2022 and beyond sure. But they shouldn’t be trading prospects for a one year rental, no matter the improvement. They aren’t one Lindor away from the playoffs, let alone a long run in Oct
You’re probably right, but there is some merit to creating a winning atmosphere prior to creating a playoff atmosphere. And, assuming they keep the same playoff setup, I think Lindor makes them a .500 team. There is value in that as well.
For the jays to get him. It would probably cost Pearson
Lindor makes sense for the Angels since we are likely losing Simmons. I would trade Ohtani plus a prospect for him. As talented as Ohtani is on the mound, he’s barely pitched for us in three years and his DHing is only so valuable without playing a position. This hole needs to be filled quickly so all of the attention can be focused on a nice new shiny pitching staff.
Cleveland has pitching and a DH so Ohtani would not be what the Indians would want in a Lindor trade. Cleveland would be looking for a cost controlled MLB or MLB ready OF like Adell or Marsh. I don’t see the Angels offering Adell. I do see the Angels as one of the better contenders to acquire Lindor.
hockeyjohn – good to know since I don’t follow Cleveland. I would be fine packaging Adell for Lindor then if that’s what Cleveland needs. We need to fix it and move on to pitching.
Pitching…. Angels need pitching. Keep throwing cash at sluggers, fine. How’s that worked out for them? Until they FOCUS on pitching they will not be much of a concern for the rest of the AL West.
“This hole needs to be filled quickly so all of the attention can be focused on a nice new shiny pitching staff.”
empirejim – Based on my first comment, I agree with you.
Sounded to me like you thought swinging a deal for Lindor was the first priority. Further, I dont understand the logic of trading a pitcher with high upside so you can load the lineup with superstars. Ya, Ohtani has been injured and unable to pitch. Ohtani is one of the guys you should be building around, but sell low and buy high if you like. As a fringe Angel fan, I get frustrated with Arte spending like crazy on position players and then stocking the rotation with a bunch of # 4’s and 5’s.
Well, maybe you should read my full comment again as it should be clear that I think nothing should distract from revamping the pitching staff. Having a hole up the middle could be a distraction to the top priority of revamping the pitching staff.
Ohtani, although talented, hasn’t been available to help the rotation. I think we should move on from him if it helps secure our middle infield.. Just my opinion.
I get where you’re coming from, but up the middle is not near the issue as the rotation. Lots of teams passed on Beuhler in the draft because of elbow trouble. The Dodgers are reaping the rewards of sticking with talent through an injury and rehab. Angels are, or should be, “pot committed” on Ohtani. If they trade him now, they will regret it. Opinions are good, especially informed and politely stated.
I think the Indians would ask for Alec Bohm and Possibly Rafael marchan in a deal….at that price i think Lindor is yours…BUT i am not sure Phillies pull the Trigger! I think it takes an MLB ready or Active young player and a 5-10 prospect to Get Lindor….maybe a guy from 10-15 as well….BUT if the Phillies offer those 2 guys i am fine with a 2 for 1!
Bohm is far more valuable than Lindor, imo. 6 years of a possible 3+ WAR player for one year of a 5-6 WAR player?
Actually, Lindor is a 5-8 WAR player just entering his prime. I don’t blame you for trying to devalue him to build your case, but the Indian’s FO is way smarter than that.
I think the Phillies and Indians should complete a huge blockbuster with Lindor and Carrasco going to Philadelphia and Bohm, Howard, and Hoskins going to Cleveland.
Actually, Lindor is a 5-8 WAR player just entering his prime.
—————————————————————
Lindor has had only one season above 5.7, so it is tough to consider him an 8 WAR player. Just taking a look at his career, his average WAR is 4.7 and his average bWAR/650 PAs is 5.3. And, while he is in prime, his WAR last year was 0.8.
If he played in 150+ games, it is possible for him to exceed 6 WAR, but I would never make a bet he will exceed 6 WAR.
And i wouldn’t do that trade if I were Philly. All they’ve done for 2-3 seasons is to get more expensive and get older. This adds $30M to their payroll. It makes them better for one year, and worse for the following 5 years. This is the same mistake they made with Segura & Realmuto.
Actually, Lindor hasn’t had a full season WAR below 5.0 and has been as high as 7.8, all before turning 25. If you think he’s reached his ceiling then I understand your take, but any intelligent baseball mind knows better. He’ll consistently give you 5-8 WAR for the next 4 yrs at least, and it’s not unrealistic to think that his average WAR will increase as he enters his prime.
5-8 assumes that, on average, he will give you 6.5. While it is always possible, the likelihood is that he will continue to give you 5-6. I would say that about every player.
As a RS fan, I can see Bogaerts has a bWAR as high as 5.9. But that is not his usual production. I would say he is a 4-5 WAR player. I’d bet real money that he will have at least one season well above 5, but I’d also bet money that he will not average more than 5.
Taking absolutely nothing away from Lindor, Indians’ fans should stop salivating. the Sox didn’t get a whole lot for Mookie, and if you haven’t heard, there’s a virus going around.
Frankie’s great, both on and off the field; kid lights up a room. But I suspect it’s be a quantity rather than quality trade (shades of Von “Purple” Hays). Three (maybe 4) of some team’s mid-range prospects, the kind the acquiring team can replenish through the draft.
Boston received 5 years of Alex Verdugo, a former top 50 prospect, who turned into a very good outfielder. They also received a top 100 prospect in Jeter Downs and a lesser catching prospect. Boston also got rid of 1/2 of David Price’s contract. I thought Boston did quite well. I would love a Verdugo type on the Indians.
As a RS fan, I loved the trade, and like it more now than when they made it. Betts is a future HOF, with a WAR/650 of 7.6. Verdugo’s WAR/650 is 4.8. I’m getting 5 years of 4.8 and giving up one year of 7.6, to me, that is not remotely close.
The salary difference, Downs, and Price, are all icing on the cake. And, FWIW, when this first came up, while I wanted more, I said I’d be okay with Verdugo for Betts straight up.
The better description and more honest description is they didn’t get as much because they wanted to attach Price to the package. It was more about shedding money to dip under the threshold than just talent alone.
When it comes to the Braves and Swanson I’d keep him at SS and move Lindor to third by offering them Waters Riley Ender and Toussaint for Carrasco and Lindor
Lindor is a superb player, but giving up the farm to rent him only works if your team is one star short of a serious World Series run. I’d hate to be the team that has been rebuilding for years and has finally turned the corner only to have the GM trade away a good chunk of young talent for a rental piece. If it fails, you are set back maybe for years.
Every team in baseball can afford to sign Lindor to a long-term deal. No exceptions. The question is whether teams are content making money hand-over-fist with a mediocre roster or want to win. I think we know the answer. Fans like to complain about the long-term contracts doled out to star players. But those contracts pay for themselves in the first few years of the deal, regardless of whether the player is Mookie Betts, Mike Trout, Manny Machado, or Bryce Harper. With a little imagination, even the smallest market teams can lock up stars and enhance the value of their franchise. Instead, they cry poverty while laughing their way to the bank. These folks own teams for a reason.
I CAN afford to buy a lamborghini i just would have to be imaginitave and figure out how to survive with no money for food or water along with probably no place to sleep except maybe the car. Is that a silly example yes but you CAN spend big money on one player but you also need money to play for other things such as stadium maintenance, workers, staff, benefits, etc etc.
Look at the Tampa Bay Rays which for 2019 was 264M in revenues before expenses.,Do you think they could afford a miss such as stanton and ellsbury from the yankees, which combined is roughly 1/5th of their revenue before payouts to staff and other players? The rays make no revenue even when in the world series you hardly see fans there. Most of the fans that do go are yankee or mets fans.
You can operate at a loss if you want and appease the fans but do you think an owner/businessman wants to keep money into something that is losing money? its like owning a bar and losing 100g a year because everyone loves you over pour your liquors.
While there are a lot of teams that do pocket the money and run such as the Marlins (hopefully that changes with new owners), Pirates, and Mets with Wilpons are definitely offenders of that. You have teams that are well run such as the Rays that are contenders and spend wisely and still within their small revenues.
Fans like to complain about the long-term contracts doled out to star players. But those contracts pay for themselves in the first few years of the deal
———————————————————-
I’m not sure any long-term contract for a hitter has paid for itself, let alone pay for itself in the first few years. Over the past two years, Harper is #25 in fWAR, and Machado is #32. That’s not a great payback, considering their contribution in their last few years might be close to -0-.
And these are two guys that have done okay. There are many others like Pujols, Miggy, Fielder, etc., where their teams got 1-2 good years, followed by years that could easily be replaced by a minor leaguer.
Wish the cards would get involved. But knowing the cards it would have to be a trade and sign situation. But I’d say trade Jordan walker, ponce deleon, and knizer. Let wong go, move dejong to second, or keep wong and move dejong in the trade instead of one of the other mentioned pieces. They have alot of money coming off the books after next year, so they could afford a new contract for lindor.
The problem with projecting these teams who have a need is figuring out what they would send back to CLE to fill their immediate needs. I think the Braves match up best if they send Swanson and either Waters or Pache to the Tribe for Lindor and a low minors high end prospect.
Would Gleyber Torres straight up for Lindor work for each side?
Yanks need to get more left handed and better on defense and that does both.
Cle needs controllable production. If he is played at 2b, he is a 30-35 HR guy at that spot.
Trying to not throw out a pile of garbage for a superstar type proposal.
Opinions appreciated. Thx.
It would work for the Indians, but not for the Yankees based on team control and valuation. It would be one year of Lindor at approximately $19M salary in 2021, vs. four years of control for Torres who is projected at $2.5M next year. Torres was rated as one of the most valuable trade properties in the game heading into 2020 due to his age (only 23), talent, position and low cost. If the Yankees were to put him on the open market, they’d do much better than one season of Lindor. Lindor is great, better than Torres when looking at his total skill set, but his return will be greatly limited by his lack of team control.
You’d have to look at the Betts for maybe a comp. The Red Sox received a MLB player in Verdugo, an A-ball prospect who just touched AA rated in the 50-100 range in Jeter Downs and a low-A lottery ticket in Connor Wong, who may never amount to anything. Keep in mind, the Red Sox also gave a quality starting pitcher in the deal in David Price, paying down half his salary. Price was overpaid on the Red Sox, but is fairly priced now.
Based on all that, maybe Lindor nets a Clint Frazier, and a Yankee prospect in the 50-100 range? A Deivi Garcia or Clarke Schmidt would be nice gets on the pitching front, but I wonder if an OFer and a pitcher are what Cleveland would target. Also, I don’t think the Yankees can afford to part with one of their young starters.
If I were Cleveland, I’d take Torres, and cut my telephone line so you couldn’t ask for him back.
Not for Yanks. Why would you think they would trade a young budding star fir a player about to hit free agency that just had a down year?
Well because they probably wouldnt do it for what you typically see thrown out there on sites like this.
Torres didnt exactly have a great year either.
Plus theres an apparent Yankee tax, which I’m not sure isnt due to Cashmans personality.
Did you read the 3 sentences about the Yankees, or just the first 10 words?
It doesn’t say the Yankees will trade Torres for Lindor. It says they move him to the keystone. Aka 2nd base. And then Lindor plays SS
Cmon
Now I’m laughing at YOU because my comment had nothing to do with that portion of the post.
I asked a question. Thanks for your articulate response.
Did it make you feel better about yourself to reply in that manner? Hope so.
Wow you are something. Then enlighten me, what young star did you think MLBTR was suggesting NYY trade for Lindor that you had to ask a rhetorical question and say “not for Yanks”?
Go ahead. What young star if it wasn’t Torres? We both know you meant Torres. Who was it?? I continue to laugh at you
Thanks for putting a projected trade package for each team :/. Golly can I write for you guys I’m 15 and probably know more about this stuff than you all.
How do you know everyone else isnt younger?
I’m gonna leave it at this regarding Lindor. Cleveland lost out on a great chance to obtain a huge pay load for him and the corona virus with the short season and the unknowns financially going forward has truly hurt the value they can expect to get back on him in his last season before free agency at 27yo and coming off a mediocre season at best. So if I’m a team that can afford his pay raise this season which will put him close to 20 mill for the 2021 season I would consider hard on how much I’m willing to deal for him coming off a mediocre season. Also the bigger question is does Cleveland consider themselves a playoff team now and my guess is they absolutely do with that pitching staff but they know Lindor is absolutely leaving so their hands are tied. Do they want to trade him and continue to contend if not strengthen their team or completely rebuild? My guess is they will want major league ready talent and contend! They need an outfielder! A bullpen arm! Another infielder. Maybe a Middle order bat? There are only a handful of teams that can match up with them in this case and Angels are one, Yanks and Dodgers and evening Mets are all in that mix as well.
Cleveland lost out on a great chance to obtain a huge pay load for him
——————————————————–
That’s the same with any star player. It’s kind of meaningless. The Dodgers are losing trade value for Seager every day. But maybe they want to win in the playoffs. The Angels are losing value for Trout every year. Cleveland isn’t trading simply to get rid of their stars.
Weird the Cardinals aren’t listed here when they have a gaping hole on the left side of their infield. I don’t think it would be too much to ask DeJong to slide over to third.
The only match is the team that is built to win 2021. so Yankees and braves. Because you can rule out the Dodgers.
Rule out the Dodgers??? Is that a joke???
The dodgers have acquired as many or more stars via trade on short term deals than any other franchise in the last 3-5 years
Immediately excluding them seems odd, especially when their 3B is a free agent and the DH looms
Lindor should have been traded a year ago to get a decent package. Why would any team cough up any of their top prospects for one year of Lindor and the Indians desperate to trade him. Guy only plays hard when he’s in the mood and that wasn’t very often this past season.
I remember reading those articles in the Boston press about Betts being untradeable due to having only one season left, and a big contract.
One of true beliefs in MLB, and every sport, is that there will always be a GM that thinks he is one start away from being a contender,
Yanks can offer Voit and an outfielder and acquiring Voit for Lindor will not only get Lindor’s salary off Cleveland’s books but also allow the Indians to turn down Santana’s option and save an additional $17M
that’s $36M plus while bolstering the offense
If they Indians are done with Bauers and Bradley while committing Naylor to LF then Frazier and Voit would be a fair return IMO. If they’re not done with Bauers and Bradley then Voit isn’t a good fit.
The Mets have much bigger priorities (2 starting pitchers, C, CF) than SS and also have 3 very young SS, Rosario, Giminez and #1 prospect Mauricio who all have potential high sides.
I love Lindor, as a Cub fan I would love to see him and Baez creating the most dynamic duo in baseball but there is no way the Cubs would trade for Lindor. For starters they do not have the payroll flexibility to do so. They probably have the prospects but I find it highly unlikely the Cubs would be willing to meet the Indians asking price for Lindor on a one year rental… Theo may be desperate enough to win another title before he goes off but I strongly doubt the Ricketts family are desperate enough to go into luxury tax territory for the third straight year.
A’s
Would the Dodgers be willing to move Lux or Seager in a Lindor package. They refused to include Lux for Betts and Betts is better than Lindor.
Lindor is about the same as Seager. I had that complaint about the original article. There is absolutely no motivation for LAD to consider replacing one year of Seager with one year of Lindor.
This list is mostly teams that don’t really need, or are unable to obtain Lindor. Since the Indians can’t sign him AND want to dump salary, I sadly see them getting a disappointing return – just like they did for Kluber and Clevinger.
Kluber and Clevinger might both have been injury concerns for the Indians.
Past that, I agree. There are too many really good SS’s out there. You need three things to get a haul.
1-At least a semi-big market team.
2-A need at SS.
3-A good farm.
4-No other competing needs. This is often overlooked by writers, but a team with no starting pitching is not going to invest $20M in a SS.
The Reds are really the only team that fits that profile. As a Yankee hater, I hope they acquire Lindor, and then re-sign LeMahieu to play 1st. But I doubt they do so.
I think the Indians are looking at a less-than-market return for Lindor, and might be better off keeping him.
Whomever can dangle Refsnyder is in the driver’s seat
Tribe needs to re-sign Lindor to a two-yr deal with an option through the 2023 season. Their closest-to-being-ready SS prospect hasn’t gotten out of A ball yet. Surely they can afford two years of salary. They can’t possibly be this dumb.
That’s never going to happen. Unless Lindor gets badly hurt, there is a -0- chance of him signing a 2-year contract. He’ll be looking for 8 years.
Well the large problem for a team wanting to trade for Lindor ,
The Indians have a great deal of depth throughout the system from the following SS, 2B, Catcher and every aspect of Pitching Starting and Relief
The Indians system lacks any close quality depth at 1B and Outfield any team that has that quality depth ready prospect or player with 3 to 4 years of team control that are at least a 3 tool player where one of the tools is the ability not only to hit but also with power will be able to complete a deal for Lindor.
Will the Indians get a haul for Lindor Imo the days of a haul for Lindor left the train station last winter.
The best we can hope for is a outfielder or 1B ready or with a couple major league seasons under their belt and maybe 2 position prospects just starting at High A or AA.
I’m a Indians fan but JMO the days of getting any top 20 of the top 100 prospects are over for a Lindor return