The Blue Jays have grabbed the first notable starting pitcher of deadline season, acquiring righty Taijuan Walker from the Mariners in exchange for a player to be named later. Both clubs have announced the trade. The PTBNL, per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal (Twitter link), is someone not currently in Toronto’s 60-man player pool.
To make room for Walker on the 40-man roster, the Blue Jays transferred righty Trent Thornton from the 10-day injured list to the 45-day injured list. He’d been diagnosed with loose bodies in his right elbow and will now miss the remainder of the 2020 season.
Walker, who turned 28 earlier this month, was the No. 43 overall draft pick by the Mariners back in 2010 and spent six years in the organization before being traded to the D-backs in the 2016-17 offseason. He returned to Seattle on a one-year, $2MM deal this season after missing the vast majority of the 2018-19 seasons in Arizona due to injury. That figure is prorated to about $720K in the shortened season, with about $344K of that sum yet to be paid out. Presumably, the Jays are on the hook for that portion of the deal.
Though the reunion was short-lived, Walker looked plenty healthy in his five starts to begin the season. He’s pitched to an even 4.00 ERA with a 25-to-8 K/BB ratio, five homers allowed and a 36.8 percent ground-ball rate. Walker’s most recent outing saw him hold a tough Dodgers lineup to three runs — all solo homers — on four hits and a walk with eight punchouts over seven frames. He’s averaged 93 mph on his heater thus far in 2020, and that number has crept upward of late; Walker sat at 92.6 mph as recently as July 31 but averaged 93.3 mph in his two most recent outings.
Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto said in a radio appearance on 710 ESPN Seattle (Twitter link via 710’s Jessamyn McIntyre) that he hopes to eventually discuss another reunion between the Mariners and Walker. Given Walker’s status as a pending free agent and the Mariners’ distance from postseason contention, however, the move was widely expected. Dipoto added that he’s happy to send Walker somewhere that he’ll have the opportunity to pitch in the postseason.
The Jays will add Walker to a rotation that recently lost Nate Pearson to an elbow injury and has generally struggled beyond top starter Hyun Jin Ryu. Veterans Matt Shoemaker and Tanner Roark have matching 4.91 ERAs — each with an FIP greater than 6.00. Righty Chase Anderson has been solid in a tiny sample, but he only just returned from an oblique injury and has yet to top five innings in a single appearance this year. The Jays have ridden an unexpectedly strong bullpen into the AL Wild Card mix, but it’s been clear that rotation upgrades would be needed for the team to hang onto that opportunity.
General manager Ross Atkins made that much clear a week ago when he acknowledged his plans to focus on win-now moves — specifically those that would reinforce his team’s starting pitching. The Jays were also recently linked to Pirates righties Trevor Williams and Chad Kuhl, and it stands to reason that they could yet look into acquiring another starter. For now, Walker represents an affordable rotation upgrade who could conceivably make six or seven starts over the final 32 days of the regular season. He’d likely factor into the club’s playoff rotation as well, should the Jays ultimately qualify.
Onlookers may be a bit surprised to see the return as a PTBNL not in the Blue Jays’ 60-man player pool, although that hardly means the Mariners’ return will be negligible. No team can fit all of its noteworthy prospects into the 60-man pool, of course, particularly given that most clubs — contenders in particular — have some of those slots allocated to veteran depth pieces. (Toronto, for instance, has Ruben Tejada, Caleb Joseph, Jake Petricka and Justin Miller in its pool.)
Furthermore, the expectation throughout the industry has been that the return for rental players such as Walker will be even more tepid than usual in a given season. Clubs are typically reluctant to part with high-end prospects even for a full two-month rental of a player in a 162-game season, and parting with notable prospect(s) for half that time is obviously an even tougher sell.
That’s not to say the return for Walker will be negligible. He was among the likeliest pitchers to change hands and surely drew interest from virtually any contender in search of rotation upgrades, so the Jays are presumably parting with a prospect of some note to acquire him. The likelihood is that said prospect was omitted from the 60-man pool either due to a lack of proximity from the Majors or a current injury.
The player’s identity won’t be formally announced by the team until after the season and might not even be settled upon yet; it’s not uncommon for teams to provide lists from which a trade partner can select a PTBNL. There’s also been some speculation that conditional trades — i.e. the PTBNL is X if acquiring team makes the playoffs or Y if the acquiring team does not — could be of increased popularity given the truncated nature of the current season.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported the trade (Twitter links).
Wow! And the dominoes start to fall…..
I didn’t expect that!
You didn’t expect Taijuan to be traded or u didn’t expect him to go to the Jays? I didn’t expect the latter. You were prob the same cuz Tai’s name has been put out as a trade candidate for over a week.
To the Jays….anything can happen this year!
Kind of sucks to see him go again. I wonder if it is tampering what Dipoto said? We traded you to get a new player but hey we would love to have you back. I hope they get him back and am surprised it doesn’t happen more often. When a team trades a player as he leaves and will be a FA agree to bring him back next year. Still not sure if you can do that in the press.
@ayrbhoy who cares baseball is fixed and BVW confirmed it with Rob Manfred with the “protest talks”. MLB and MLBPA are pure evil
You know who cares- johnnydubz? You do JD. Why else would you read a trade rumors site which provides up to the minute articles on MLB minor transactions then take the time to write flippant nonsense to other people who care about MLB?
Wow, conspiracy theories even about baseball !
I said he was either going to the Yankees or Blue Jays since they’re both trying to acquire pitching. I’m just surprised the return could possibly be low, even given the season’s length
Let the trades begin!
Nice little pick up for the 2nd best team in NY. I wonder what they gave up? We’ll see shortly.
PTBNL – in a 162 g season I believe teams have 6 mo’s to decide on the player. Bottom line we (M’s) get a player who probably won’t impact the team for 2+ yrs
If ever
i see what you did there
Prob didn’t give up much if it’s a player to be named later
That’s just a loophole to avoid the rule about players in the 60-man pool being the only ones eligible to be traded. It could still turn out to be a decent prospect.
Chaney- PTNBL is also used to get around trading from the most recent (2020) draft. Not that I’m expecting a 2020 draft pick in return- only 5 were picked so Seattle would be guaranteed a 5th rd pick or higher. I’d love us to get International $$ that’s where you can find some real value.
Not necessarily. Sensible move, could be anyone, and gives the Mariners time
My guess: Toronto’s prospect somewhere in their #7, #8, #9, #10 Top 30.
@Yank4life. I don’t know how many cought your joke. =D
I’m sure most of us thought it more of an attempt at a joke. I saw it more as a ‘Dad joke’ really…
We’ll take it!
Toronto’s going to be sneaky-dangerous come (and if there is) playoff time.
I definitely think the Buffalo Blue Jays have a shot for the playoffs now. Maybe 3 teams out of the AL East in the playoffs this season
Time for your Hankees to up their ante…one SP down!
Jankees*
*Pankees
*Wankees*
Pancakees?
Stankees.
*Spankees*
flapjacks
Big House, are you specifically referencing the 2nd best team in AL East with 3rd ranked talent, and 1st ranked over pay?
I sure was…they have to keep trying to buy a better ball club
Yank4life- Wait what? They are not from New York. They are playing in New York because they cannot play in Toronto. At least to me that’s disrespectful towards the Mets. I believe that the Mets will finish with a better record than the Blue Jays.
> I believe that the Mets will finish with a better record than the Blue Jays
FanGraphs projects the Mets to finish with 30 wins and the Jays 29 wins. But the Mets haven’t been .500 since July 29, and have gone 10-13 (.435) since.. The Jays face only two teams above .500 in their remaining 31 games: mediocre Miami (-2 run differential) and the Yankees (a great team that has lost five in a row and has more injuries than a hip replacement clinic).
The Mets have underperformed the preseason projections and the Jays have done much better than expected. I like the Jays to finish with more wins.
We shall see who finish with a better record between the Mets and Blue Jays.
This is a true statement.
hahaha, Buffalo Blue Jays….love it, especially when the Bill win the superbowl this season
Someone “not on the 60 man”? I would have thought you could do better.
It could’ve been a 1st or 2nd round pick from last year. Not on the 60 man doesn’t mean trash by any means.
There’s a lot of talent not on the 60 man roster.
Not if you are the Phillies!
I doubt they gave up a first round pick for a 30 day rental but we will see. Strange days…
The Angels gave up their first round pick for salary relief last offseason, but they’re an especially bad organization.
Plenty of solid prospects aren’t in their team’s 60-man player pool. There’s not room for most prospects there, particularly with every club allocating some of those spots to veteran depth.
Exactly- what those boys above said! It could easily be a 2020 draft pick. Incidentally- the Mariners are infamous for (prob) the worst PTBNL trade when said PTBNL ended up being Big Papi! We miss you Bavasi…..like a global pandemic! Haha
Players selected in the most recent draft can’t be included in trades, even as a PTBNL, until the offseason. They cleaned that up after the Trea Turner debacle between the Nats and Padres.
When the Mariners traded Big Papi to the Twins, his name was David Arias. So that literally was a trade for a Player To Be Named Later..
Remember the Twins gave up on him during his prime. He had no where to play with the Ms. Olerud at 1st, Edgar DH.
Bavasi didn’t trade Arias/Ortiz/Big Papi. That trade was 1996, when Woody Woodward was GM. Arias/Ortiz at that time was a 20-yer old in A Ball.
Basil- spot on! Nice one, clever
Oh, is that right Steve? Even in this COVID-19 season- no picking from the 2020 draft class? I wasn’t expecting TOR to give up a 2020 draft pick anyway- that would mean they’d give up a 5th rd or lower for 6 starts from Tai Walker. Just trying to suggest to the doomsday/Dipoto haters club that who knows what we get, we might end up w someone decent. HOU turned Josh Fields into Yordan Alvarez, (not a PTBNL trade,) but my point is you never know how a prospect will develop in another farm system
It’s a virtual guarantee that they ran through best offers from all of the teams and maybe a mid-tier guy is all that anyone was willing to give up. A PTBNL used to be pretty negligible (with a handful of notable exceptions), but the case for resetting our expectations was pretty well laid out in this post. I’d also point out that the current market of what has been traded reinforces the general attitudes a lot of teams have expressed regarding the truncated season.
Can you recommend a good resource to look at what teams are carrying on their 60-man rosters? I suspect that a lot of teams couldn’t even field a full squad at their alternate sites right now anyhow, but I’d love an easier way to look at the roster construction when things like this come up.
MLB dot com
Rosters
NRI
My go to is FanGraphs / RosterResource
Thank you tim815 and Oddvark. I have used the MLB from time to time, but wanted something easier to toggle. The RosterResource is more like what I was thinking. Cheers!
Roster Resource at FanGraphs is a great place for depth charts, player pools and taxi squads.
Oops, didn’t realize someone beat me to it.
All good. As noted above, that was more like what I was looking for, so appreciate the extra reinforcement vote.
No doubt, especially with lower-level prospects.
Majority of the best prospects in baseball aren’t on the 60. Not that they are getting a elite guy but ptbnl is a good thing.
That depends on the philosophy used to create the 60-man this season. Teams that are attempting to compete this year, will fill the 60-man with players who can be called on to help out on the MLB club if needed. The consequence is that they will have younger decent prospects who will be left off of the 60-man because those players wouldn’t be able to help out at MLB. – those players will be losing a season of development time.
The other side is the approach taken by teams such as the Mariners, who aren’t intending to compete and hence filled their 60-man with all of their best prospects so that the prospects could receive at least some development time at the alternate training site.
I’m not sure where the Jays were in their approach to filling the 60-man, but I don’t think that you can glibly assume that a player isn’t a decent prospect just because a team didn’t put him on the 60-man roster.
Just looked a bit, Jays have a lot of their top prospects not on the 60 because of how far away they are, and a lot of the back end of their top 30 are on the 60.
PTBNL isn’t the same this year as it has been in past years
It could be someone from this past draft who’s not in camp (once the restriction on trading them is lifted)
It could be any number of prospects not on the 60
I wish MLBTR did a segment about notable prospects per team left off the 60 man roster.
Could be someone as high up the list as Adam Kloffenstein, #10 prospect according to MLB, who I don’t see on their 60 man..
Could be someone lower like Griffin Conine, #16 on Jays prospects, not on the 60 man.
Or could be a couple prospects outside the top 30 altogether.
I’m sure seattle gets a list of players to choose from. Possibly 2 depending on Walkers performance even.
As a Jays fan, I can virtually guarantee that it won’t be Kloffenstein. I’d be pretty surprised if it was Conine. I’d expect it more to be like a Tanner Morris or Ryan Noda type of return.
For Vogelbach…
It would be a literal steal for the Jays lol.
Wow, that was huge and they all had to give up was a PTBNL that’s not on the 60 man roster, finally the jays are making smart moves
You have no clue who the kid they just gave up might be. May end up being a very bad deal for Toronto. You just don’t know with a PTBNL. It’s not quite the same as it was in recent years.
Fair, but we’ll have to see who that player is, for now it’s still a pretty solid move to bolster the rotation
How did the just get a PTBN when multiple teams were in on Walker, the Yankees most notably. I work for the Blue Jays single A team and would love to see someone I’ve seen play be the PTBN
Sometimes rumors are just rumors.
its just someone not on the 60. its their way of avoiding using a 60 man spot on the player in question.
Ckin88, Jaysfan- some PTBNL trades include- Michael Brantley, Big Papi, Marco Scutaro, Moises Alou, Gio Gonzalez and most recently Trea Turner. However, you have to keep in mind the Mariners past trade history- if you google worst trades in history there are a number of Seattle trades on there, (Adam Jones, Varitek/Lowe, C Guillen, R Soriano, Mike Hampton, O Vizquel etc) but to be fair those trades were all made before Jerry Dipoto’s reign so we’ll see……later!
True, but I also read in another article it could a PTBNL or cash considerations so maybe it’s not one of their very top prospects, and I don’t think walker is worth a top 10 or top 20 prospect maybe a top 30
@ckln88 – you can’t trade anyone that is not on your 60 man roster during the season. They have to be a PTBNL. Many of Blue Jays top prospects are not on the 60 man roster right now so its possible they actually trade a very good prospect. My guess is the Mariners actually got a decent prospect if they traded him with 4 days left and Blue Jays are probably looking to beat the Yankees to him and gave up something decent, not just a scrub.
So the best prospects aren’t neccersarily on the “60”…actually, most aren’t. I suspect Jerry D. got a good return for a rather “meh” starter. It’s absolutely a seller’s market this year.
Nobody was getting a huge return for walker with his track record. Plus there are plenty of good prospects that aren’t on 60 man rosters.
No matter what they get its a win for the mariners. This is exactly why rebuilding teams take a flyer on a guy like walker. In hopes of trading them for value at the deadline. Smart move.
Exactly- the Mariners only had roughly 5 maybe 6 starts left from Taijuan. They flip that to get a player who will hopefully give us 6 years in the ML. We’ll find out if said player comes from the Jays 2020 draft- I’m hoping that’s what we agreed upon since it’s guaranteed to be a 5th rd or better prospect. BTW- The Jays picked 3 SP’s, a SS and an OF in their 5 rds. I seriously doubt it’s their 1St pick SS Austin Martin, hopefully it’s one of their young SP’s
I’am sorry to tell you Seattle fans you are talking about names that if they are correct will cost Ross Atkins his job.
No need to seriously doubt. It isn’t Austin Martin. You weren’t getting him for Marco Gonzales.
Players traded this year cannot be traded from the 2020 draft, not even PTBNLs.
More likely from 2019 draft year.
I love it! This is gonna be a good day!
The Blue Jays get another good, promising pitcher to help bolster that rotation, and I also think Walker feels pretty good right now too. He went from maybe not even signing with a team, to now being a trade asset for the M’s. Yes the hassles of mid-season trades suck, but I bet/hope that this is a confidence booster to Walker. Everyone knows he has the talent.
It was good to see a more mature side of Taijuan Walker in Seattle this season. Before he was flipped to AZ for Haniger/Segura he was extremely talented but very young, super athletic but quite immature, known for not listening to coaches or taking their data/advice seriously.
While away from Seattle he learned more about sequencing and mound presence from older heads like Greinke or Robbie Ray. His last 3 starts in Seattle we’re really good and I wish him all the best on the Blue Jays. In one year he’s made a return to the mound from TJ surgery, he’s had offseason uncertainty, a 1 year deal with the youngest team in MLB who told him they are more likely to win the No1 draft pick than a playoff spot, the threat of having no contract at all, came out healthy from a restart, then a trade to a young and exciting team in the hunt for the playoffs! I hope he goes all the way. I feel like you never fully sever ties from your teams best prospects even when they’re traded away. Hope he does well for you Jays fans. G’luck Taijuan- go beast mode
It says PTBNL or cash. Maybe your GM can slip in a few Monopoly notes in the bundle of cash?
Was really hoping for a Walker/Seager trade to Atlanta
I’m guessing this means that we probably won’t see Trevor Williams and Chad Kuhl get traded to Toronto now. Maybe they will…
Anyway, I think this is a great pickup to add to a surplus of other right-handers, including Roark, Anderson, Yamaguchi, Shoemaker, etc. Taijuan to me will probably be a 2 or 3 starter on this team, maybe a front-end bullpen guy along with Hatch and others. Overall, huge get for the Blue Jays, and hey, the Mariners got some value in this deal as well for a guy who will pitch in less than 6=7 games if he starts for this Jays team.
So far, this may be tied for the second biggest deal this season, behind the Workman/Hembree Phillies deal, and tied with the Tim Hill to Padres deal.
I was expecting for Taijuan to be moved closer to the deadline to see if they could possibly get two PTBNLs, but it’s definitely a good deal for the Jays.
As a Jays fan who has no idea who the PTBNL is, I think we lost the trade! You get a decentish starter for 6 starts and maybe 8th seed. Hurray!
I agree. This prospects upside better be a #5 or utility guy. Probably will be someone decent, if it wasn’t why wouldn’t Sea wait longer.
let the speculation on who the PTBN is begin!
Originally I thought the player had to be in the 60 man to be traded? Like, prior to a trade
On the 60-man is required if the player is named in the trade and the trade occurs during the season. After the season it can be any player. So for a trade occurring now for a player who isn’t on the 60-man, the PTBNL is used and the trade will be completed after the season. But the trade must be completed within six months.
They do, that’s why some prospects have been called up to the 60 man, because they are about to be dealt. Unless, of course, the team just wants to get the prospect some work in. Though it should be a nice warning for a prospects getting moved up to say “I think I might be traded”. I hope it would give a little warning.
In my understanding of the trade rules, a player named specifically in a trade must be in the 60-man pool. But there are no regulations on ptbnl.
Depending on the trade market we could see a lot more like this.
That’s true unless it’s a player to be named which is an oddly easy to exploit loophole gonna be a lot of unnamed players moving.
After a quick search of the Blue Jays top prospects vs their 60 Player pool here are some possiblities of the PTBNL. Have at it
2 Austin Martin SS/OF
7 Orelvis Martinez SS
8 Gabriel Moreno C
9 Miguel Hiraldo SS/2B
10 Adam Kloffenstein RHP
12 CJ Van Eyk RHP
13 Kendall Williams RHP
14 Eric Pardinho RHP
15 Otto Lopez SS/2B
16 Griffin Conine OF
17 Leonardo Jimenez SS/2B
18 Estiven Machado SS
19 Dasan Brown OF
20 Rikelvin De Castro SS
27 Will Robertson OF
29 Sem Robberse RHP
30 Nick Frasso RHP
Martin is in their player pool, for the record. He’s also ineligible to be traded until after the season, even as a PTBNL, because he’s a 2020 draftee. Same with Van Eyk and Frasso (the ineligible part — neither is in the player pool).
I did a quick look myself as well and if you look at similar type traded players in years past, they’ve fallen in the second tier of prospects. Considering its a non 60 man roster guy, and the needs of the Mariners organization, I would bet on one of the guys listed in the group at 7 thru 9. with a lean towards a middle infielder.
I was thinking infielder too but I was thinking Dipoto found a youngster he likes. De Castro and Machado are both 17. That’s where I’d put my money
I doubt the Jays would give up Moreno or Orelvis Martinez. That would be a huge get for the Mariners if they received either of those two.
i can see Williams being the guy
If the Mariners get anyone from 13 up, they did very good. I doubt that would be the case though.
Martin and Moreno are at our alternate on the 60
This is a great preview for how unexciting most of these deadline deals are going to be. Going to be a bunch of players traded for PTBNL. Guess we have something else to look forward to in the offseason….
Does Logan Gilbert get recalled?
I did a recent thought experiment, to see what makes a good pitcher. So I went through the Mlb’s top 100, chose out all of the pitchers, and made a set of guidelines that are common between all of the pitchers (expect for two outliers). Logan Gilbert is probably my favorite pitcher on the list that isn’t a super prospect like Gore. He meets all of my qualifications, and he has a nice repeatable motion. I expect him to be really good.
One of the worst things about this abbreviated season is we were robbed of Logan Gilbert’s debut. If there’s a full/normal season next year imo he will make the rotation out of Spring T or be called up late April, early May after the service time clock expires. Can’t wait to see him. Go to YouTube- search Logan Gilbert vs Joe Adell Spring Training- love that
I think they will likely give some starts to Ljay Newsome until Graveman comes back. I don’t know that they want to bring Gilbert up this year although I wouldn’t have an issue with it.
The Mariners have turned Walker and Marte into Haniger, JP Crawford (Segura), a PTBNL…when you take it all the way down the line.
The Mariners also picked up Carlos Santana in the Segura trade, whom they flipped for Edwin Encarnación, whom they traded for Juan Then. Juan Then is a minor leaguer they regard highly enough to have included on their 60-man roster to be sure he got continuing development this year.
In other words, someone such as Juan Then would be the type of prospect the Mariners could receive as a PTBNL.
Right, forgot about Juan. Thanks.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that Edwin trade. I remembered Edwin playing out his contract in Seattle, but you’re right. Plus what I said below, it makes for a pretty good return, but we’ll see.
All these awesome Mariner moves should equate to some wins any year now!
Yes but each MLB team has a different strategy with their alternate site- since the Mariners are rebuilding their emphasis is on developing true talent. The Blue Jays/Yankees/ White Sox etc are all at different stages in the strategies, I’m pretty sure a lot of the teams built their 60 man with differing strategies
Going even further, Segura was traded to Philly for J.P, and Santana, and then Santana was flipped to Cleveland for Encarnacion… and a competitive balance pick in the 2019 draft, at #76, it was Isaiah Campbell. He is now the M’s 12th ranked prospect, and he looks pretty good. So they got quite a lot out of Marte and Walker. Plus whoever the PTBNL is.
Plus about $60M in salary savings on Segura. Plus Juan Then and Isaiah Campbell after they flipped Santana for Encarnacion and ultimately Encarnacion to the Yankees.,
Nice job guys. I missed a few points in my original post.
No worries, MLBTR has their own fact-checking division lol.
Ah yes, Juan Then the guy they traded away and then traded for again. DiPoto likes to take things full circle.
Then again, what’s the worst that can happen?
If it’s not Juan player, Then it’s another.
“That Dipoto genius beating the league again…”
-Mariner fan mindset
Just a guess but I’m gonna day Adam Kloffenstein is the guy heading to Seattle.
That’d be a great grab for DiPoto. Jays fan should hope for less than that.
That would be a little heavy for a guy whose going to walk at the end of the year, but it may not be far-fetched…like I said, a definite seller’s market.
Klof was an immediate thought of mine given I know he’s been playing on loan in the Constellation Energy League, (the one the Rox signed Rosscup out of) but he hasnt performed very well there so unless the Jays soured on him i dont know if he would move in a trade for a rental.
No way he is the guy. He is a major talent. My guess is someone at the bottom of their top 30.
Would agree with that. Kloffenstein is a real pitching prospect with an innings eating #3 starter upside. He’s really built like a big league starter.
If they gave that up for 6 Taijuan Walker starts, that’s a real problem.
I’d guess some super young kid that Dipoto fell in love with. Someone probably not even at Short season A ball level yet or maybe the “cash” could be international signing money
It’ll be for some pitcher that throws 96 and has a great spin rate… but can’t seem to get anybody out. That’s Dipoto’s bread and butter.
That fits his MO. Upthread I commented about Juan Then as the type of player that might be expected.
I bet you its a guy no lower than 15th in the system and probably one of the guys ranked 7 thru 9 in the rankings.
I highly doubt that for a handful of starts, Maybe a toolsy further off guy like #19 Dasan Brown.
I was thinking 25-35 range. No way will it be a 10-20 guy not for a 1 month rental of a pitcher like Walker. He is a solid #4 which has value but not worth more the a high 40-low 35+ FV on our prospect list.
Not a chance!!!!
Now that they have to be more frequent it’s interesting that nobody is going to know the return on these PTBNL deals until the offseason.
We could end up with a situation where comparable players are traded and when we find out in a few months the returns end up looking drastically different because there was no context for them to look to around the league to be able to determine fair value.
Love the move, concerned about the PTBNL…Walker was highly sought after and I’m guessing that the Jay’s put together a fairly solid list to choose from. Fingers crossed it’s more of a Conine type, rather than an upper level guy like Groshans
I am pretty sure MLB trade rumors nailed this in the trade power rankings
The jays show PTBNL or cash considerations, I don’t think we should expect much of a return unless he helps out in a big way
I highly doubt that the Mariners would have traded Walker for cash considerations as it doesn’t make sense or fit their M.O. If that was the case, it would be a terrible trade for them.
Depends how much cash and what they do with it. For a few million they could sign Walker again in November.
Damn you baseball trolls are really trolling
so Thornton has loose bodies and is out for the year, but when Eflin had them last year it was pushed under the rug. smh.
I’m assuming the Jays traded a decent prospect or the Mariners would have held onto him for a few more days and liked for better offers.
I doubt it’s Kloffenstein though as someone mentioned. I think that’s too much.
Maybe Kendall Williams, Conine, Riley Adams or Pardinho.
i doubt its Pardinho. they’d be selling a bit low.
Idk if it was Kendall Wiliams either. I’m thinking more a long the lines of a far off guy with a good ceiling. Dasan Brown #19 or Sem Robersse #29.
Both of those guys have high ceilings but a long way to go before the majors. That’s my bet,
For a PTBNL..Mets could have done that lol.
If he pitches well for TOR, I could see him being an extension candidate. He’s not even 30 y/o.
The Mets should be taking notes on how the Blue Jays are orchestrating this rebuild. Scouting, player development, and some sneaky good trades with an emphasis on pitching. The Jays ate some contracts to get rid of some deadwood, but it was worth it. They were committed to a rebuild and it hasn’t taken long to become a team worth watching. Nice future for that ballclub.
Rangers should be taking notes as well. 4 years of a “re-tool” just to have a few decent YOUNG pieces (IKF, Trevino, Solak, Taveras), and one “Star caliber guy”… Gallo. We have made good free agent pickups for pitching like Minor and Lynn, but besides that, there’s not much to be excited about. We don’t have a good farm, and our international guys who were supposed to be stars ended up flopping (Odor, Profar, Mazara, and hopefully not Guzman). We can’t develop prospects for our life, and we still put them on this weird “de-loading” program that sounds like it hurts more than it helps. Our bullpen can consistently pump out great arms, but that might be the one bright spot of this team.
Hopefully by the end of this season our farm will look better after we (hopefully) trade Lynn. Let’s hope we can tank for the rest of the season for Kumar or Leiter!
Slow down guys. They are still building up as we speak. Still a ways to go before they can publish that blueprint you speak of.
Mets don’t have the phrase “eating money” in their vocabulary.
Nice pickup by Toronto. Walker seems to have it back together. He looked outstanding last week against the Dodgers. The Jays will likely retain all their most-valuable trade chips in this one. They have been my pick to land Lance Lynn and I am sticking with it. Even if that doesn’t happen, Jays fans should be thrilled at how rapidly the rebuild is progressing.
I think it would be Pardinho going the other way.
LOL! “or cash considerations”.
You think they see ‘cash considerations’ as the equivalent of Pardinho?
Eddie it doesn’t say or cash.
it was a baseball player, There’s no reason for the M’s to trade a cheap rental for cash. Would that makes any sense? I doubt the player was Pardinho. Outside chance though. Could’ve been a blocked infield prospect like Otto Lopez as well.
0 is the number of people on this site that will know until sometime after Thanksgiving..
Will anyone other than the Jays and Mariners make deals this year?
I think you might see Philly make a couple for relief pitching. ATL could a top arm for their rotation.
I was hoping ATL could add him on the cheap, oh well
You must have enjoyed Anderson’s performance. A shame about Siroka, but the Braves aren’t far away from having an outstanding rotation. They should continue to rule that division.
I was ecstatic. It was nice to see a pitcher that actually knows how to pitch and not just throw.
Exactly. The Braves rotation might actually be more successful than the Mets “five aces” were because they don’t seem to be throwers like Harvey, Thor, Etc.
Only deGrom seemed to learn to pitch and be consistent.
DID_ATL, I’m a Dodger fan who loves watching Siroka pitch. He has the poise of a 10-time all-star has that Maddux-like thinking man’s approach to getting hitters out. As an organization, the Braves are far ahead of the other NL East teams when it comes to developing pitchers. The Marlins would be second. It’ll be a crushing blow for the Phillies if they miss the playoffs, lose Realmuto, and then watch Sanchez blossom with the fish.
Makes the first game of the double header so much easier
AL East is a different place for pitchers. Ask Dylan Bundy. This should be interesting. Walker’s upside prior to his injuries were undeniable. The ball is flying around that park in Buffalo. We’ll see how he fares. At this point the Jays need pitchers who can lift their throwing arm without wincing. Hoping Walker’s upward trend continues.
Again, let’s remember Walker was in demand. And I know Mariner fans might disagree, but DiPoto’s a pretty bright guy. I’m sure, like any good GM, he put Walker’s name out there on the bulletin board (wouldn’t we all like to see that one…probably shock most of us) and took what he perceived to be the best offer. He might be right, might be wrong…that’s why they play the games.
For the Marines to pull the trigger so quickly, I would think the Marines got a pretty decent list of prospects to choose from. It is probably a conditional list though. If Walker stays healthy throughout the rest of the season and the Blue Jays make the playoffs, they can choose from a couple of prospects in the 9-12 range. If Walker gets hurt, pitches poorly or they fall out of the race, then they can choose one of three players in the 25-30 range. Something like that.
0 chance in the 9-12 range for a 1 month rental.
Most of Toronto’s young talent is already up on the major league roster or on their 60 man roster. So a 9-12 pick is certainly not out of the question if Walker leads them to the playoffs. Seattle wouldn’t have pulled the trigger this soon (with so much competition for Walker from other teams) unless they got a pretty darn good offer for Walker’s one month of service.
We still have the # 4 Farm according to BA recent update so our 9-12 is a highly rated prospect. for 1 month of a #4/5 starter – not buying it.
Walker is good depth for the jays, although I didn’t expect them to trade for him, I just hope they don’t give a top 20 prospect up for him because I don’t think he’s worth that much
Jerry Dipoto seems to want to go against the grain and tank again this year and probably next year too. Taijuan Walker was one of our better pitchers. When you have starting pitchers that you can rely on then it makes it alot easier on the whole team especially the new young hitters. Why does Dipoto keep picking up prospect after prospect when they’re already stacked? The Mariners are not short on prospects by any means. I think trading Walker was a mistake and I don’t believe he will resign with the club ever again. Dipoto will never trade for a proven veteran because the Mariners aren’t contenders and won’t be for a number of years if Jerry has his way. You can’t have a team entirely made up of rookies and expect to contend. I really don’t wanna have to wait until Kelenic and Hancock and company are veteran all-stars. The Mariners don’t need a revolving door of rookies coming and going with nothing to show for it. Mariners don’t need a five year plan, they need to start building up the wins now instead of tanking in order to get a good draft pick. While we’re young!
Relax, they arent making the playoffs this year and Tijaun is only under contract for this year. We are trading away basically 5 or 6 games of TW for a prospect that we can control for years to come. I am hedging my bet that this is a better prospect than many are letting on. If I had to bet it would be Martinez the 18yr old 3B kid. We have alot of starting pitching ready to hit MLB level, with some real exciting prospects on their way. TW was always going to be somebody we had hoped would rebound and we could flip for prospects. If they really want him back nextvyear they can sign him in free agency as we will have a ton of money to spend.
Our GM would be shot into the sun if he traded our #7 for a 1 ,month rental of Walker
Hey Ben, I understand your sentiment and I agree that they can’t win with a team full of nothing but youth. But the reality is that he was going to test free agency and there’s at least a decent chance he re-signs with Seattle. Shannon Drayer of 710 ESPN Seattle noted that though it isn’t common for players to return to their former club the following offseason, he has ties to the area and he himself has been very public about his love for his teammates. Another reunion isn’t out of the question.
Regarding prospect depth, Seattle is stacked with pitching and outfielders. They’re thin on infielders and especially catching, and Jerry himself has been very vocal about the need to create/produce waves of talent in order to sustain a long-term winning team. My guess is that the return will be conditional, with the possibility of someone like Moreno coming to Seattle if Walker pitches well, or perhaps Nick Frasso who is the Blue Jays’ number 30 prospect in Pipeline. Reports are suggesting that the player will be from Toronto’s top-30 list.
Seattle can probably contend as early as 2022 if they start bringing in veterans via free agency as the elite prospects (Kelenic, Gilbert, etc.) start to integrate. We haven’t seen trades for veterans yet because of the current stage of the rebuild, but as they start to compete and get closer to contention, we probably will see a swap or two. Right now they’re still assessing who they have and trying to project where the areas of need will be.
Try not to sweat this.
The other piece of the picture is that from 2005 through 2018, the Mariners mantra was rebuild and contend at the same time. The new senior management that came in after Lincoln departed was willing to do what Howard Lincoln could never do – which was to admit that the rebuild and contend approach had been a failure, resulting in the team neither contending nor rebuilding. So they gave DiPoto clearance to tear it down. They still peddled it as a “step back”, but it pretty obviously was a lot more than that.
But it hasn’t just been a case of trading for prospects. Simultaneously the Mariners have started to show an actual ability to consistently develop prospects, and to take players discarded by other teams, provide some adjustments and convert them to useful players. Even if the Mariners might only have ascended to league average in such matters, that a huge improvement from where they have been for many years.
Good move, especially for a PTBNL, but didn’t expect the Jays to be the ones getting him.
So when they say, “Only players in the 60-man pool can be traded,” what they really mean is, “Anyone can be traded, but they can only be NAMED if they are in the pool.”
If they’re not in the pool, you just have to wonder about it for a while. I think I’ll head over to the Blue Jay’s site to pick a prospect.
If it’s just a “player to be named later” then the Braves missed out bad. There are roughly 3 guys on Seattle’s roster the Braves should go get, he was one
Great acquisition by the Jays,. Now the Jays need to acquire a veteran power bat to anchor the lineup and one more starter, preferable elite no dumpster diving. Then the Jays are ready for the playoffs.
Kevin Smith is going the other way. 24 year old shortstop/third baseman former 4th round pick. Has dropped down the prospect list in recent years and the Jays are flush with prospects at his position. Struggled in Double-A last year but still some nice upside.
Book it!
Wished the Mariners’ extended Walker. Hopefully the M’s get a good fetch AND that Walker returns in 2021.
Hi Steve,
Can you add the word “or cash consideration” after the word “later”? Please & thank you.
“The Blue Jays have grabbed the first notable starting pitcher of deadline season, acquiring righty Taijuan Walker from the Mariners in exchange for a player to be named later”.
I can say with 100% certainty that Walker was not moved for cash considerations. A player is definitely coming back to Seattle for Walker. The only players traded for cash are players that get DFA’d and clubs will pay cash before he clears waivers so other teams can’t pick him up. That and Babe Ruth of course.
MLB has officially announced it as “a player to be named or cash considerations”. The only thing unclear is whether it’s the Mariners who get to decide whether to take the cash instead of the player, or the Blue Jays who get to decide whether to give the cash instead of the player after the season.
Normally the “or” in a deal like that is so they can follow the players on the list for the rest of the season and decide which one they want or if none of them are developing as hoped they take the cash. With no minor leagues, it’s less obvious why they can’t make the decision between player and cash in advance.
The Blue Jays is suppose to decide not the Mariners.
There is another possible reason this gets announced now as PTBNL and/or cash considerations.
1- Jays need a starter for tomorrow against Baltimore who is immediately behind us in the standings. Rather then pull a Bull Pen day as had been planned ( before tonight’s postponement ) and use the pen already overused they announce the trade a bit prematurely to get Walker into Buffalo to make that start.
2- Why do i day prematurely? well maybe the trade hasn’t fully been finalized and they are working the final touches on a much bigger deal that wont get done in time for Walker to make that start. I’ve said for says a Seager/Gonzales fits the mold of a help us now and in the yrs ahead type trade that our GM has been talking about this past week.
By no means am in convinced the above is a case but it is a valid possibility .
excuse the typos my proof reader she was otherwise occupied.
You can think of it as only getting a guy for a month… or you can think of it as getting a guy for half of the season, better than the one third the normal year trade deadline offers. Depends how valuable being in the playoffs this year is to a team.
For the Blue Jays, I think it’s huge. Financially, a playoff spot this year means they can sell tickets (hopefully) next year on the basis of being a legitimate contender… and Blue Jays fans are notorious for only showing up when the team is competing. Then there’s team confidence, showing the young players that they’re better than people thought and that management will get the players to put them over the top. And then there’s the matter of attracting free agents, who obviously care mostly about money, but proving that your team can win will get a lot of conversations started with agents and never hurts.
I agree that is why i think they should not stop at Walker.
Yea the playoffs would be huge in bringing fans back. I just hope they don’t deal a top 20 prospect for a rental, I rather deal a top prospect for controllable high end talent rather than quick fixes, if they do make the playoffs the offseason should be interesting.