It may seem strange to say it, but we’re actually just entering the thick of trade deadline season, such as it is in 2020. White Sox GM discussed his approach to an unusual summer trade period yesterday (via 670 The Score).
First and foremost, Hahn highlighted the potentially misleading nature of the short sample every team will have gathered prior to the August 31st trade deadline. “A team may overachieve for a 60-game season,” he observed. “A guy can have a bad month or two bad months.”
Given that “challenge,” says Hahn, it’s all the more important “to understand the true talent level” of both a team’s players and its potential acquisition targets. That means scouting, yet another task rendered more difficult by the coronavirus situation. And that’s all before considering the difficulty of assessing potential trade chips, many of whom aren’t even playing competitively.
In spite of those hurdles, there obviously figures to be some trade activity. The White Sox may well be involved. But Hahn cautioned against expecting this particular organization to slam the pedal to the floor, even if its bounty of young talent is still performing well come late August.
“If we have an opportunity,” Hahn said of the possibility of chasing a title and/or striking a deal to enhance the chances thereof, “we will take that seriously and vet it seriously.” But he threw some rather chilly water on the idea of a real go-for-it move.
Hahn continued:
“But this has always has been about multiple championships. It’s always been about putting ourselves in this position every year. Being over-reactionary to a bad 30-game sample or something like that, maybe doing something rash would perhaps decrease our chances of attaining that goal. That is something we intend to avoid.”
It’s not especially surprising to hear that the White Sox are loath to sway with the breeze too much just now. The club spent on significant new veterans and on its own rising core last winter, all with the idea of putting together a roster that can compete for years to come. Whether it can do so in 2020 will depend primarily upon just how quickly that youthful bunch can produce at the MLB level.
The broader question is whether other teams will be similarly reserved. On the one hand, they’ll all be considering the same factors noted by Hahn. On the other, there will be enticing opportunities presented in the short-season format. Some non-competitive teams will surely be looking to move salary, especially if a spendy veteran has a nice first half of the truncated campaign. And teams will have a chance to capitalize on unexpectedly advantageous positions in the standings without having to sustain it over a full 162-game season.
chitown311
In Hahn we trust
wild bill tetley
That makes one of us. Came away from this article thinking the White Sox need to start looking for a replacement.
maximumvelocity
Hahn is the most overrated GM in baseball. Not one single winning season in eight years, and the rebuild rests upon prospects from three trades, the one of the most expensive amateur free agents in history, and a few top ten draft picks. His pro free agent record, overall draft record, player development record, and record on trades outside of the big three trades is horrid. He also worries more about service time then player development.
I do not trust him, especially at this juncture of the rebuild. I don’t trust a person who has never won to build a winning franchise.
chitown311
K.
DarkSide830
have you heard of a rebuild?
Dogbone
@dark side
I’ve heard of rebuilds, but if you have a clue, it shouldn’t take 10 years of tanking. Of course Hahn had to work within the incompetence of the Reinsdorf, Kenny Williams regime.
maximumvelocity
@DarkSide. Yes. It should’t take eight+ years to accomplish one. The Twins did it in about three seasons. The A’s did it in three seasons. The Rays did it in about three seasons. Why? They hit on free agent signings, developed players in their system and hit on draft picks. And for the record, this is Hahn’s second rebuild. It just didn’t look like it because the first one never produced a single winning team.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Rebuild since 2006.
sckoul
If I’m not mistaken the rebuild didn’t start until 2016 as the White Sox where still trying to win games up to then hence making a bad trade involving tatis jr. Had the Sox been in a 6+ year rebuild tatis jr is still in Chicago. Twins took 4 seasons Nd so did the Astros. Rays did it in 5 seasons. Cubs you can argue did it in 3. All in All Hahn is doing fine. The White Sox have only seriously went after free agents the last 2 years as it was planned. Some rebuilds are faster than others. Doesn’t mean GM is the issue. Sox are right on time.
Idioms for Idiots
@sckoul
You would be correct. Nice post.
wordonthestreet
@darkside
Have you ever heard of a rebuild?
nrd1138
The rebuild did not start until 2016, despite the misleading attempts by many Cubs fans to say otherwise. The Sox, in GM Kenny Williams last official bonehead move, hired Robin Ventura as manager at the end of 2011 when he had no clue how to manage, and then compounded that mistake by refusing to fire him (or likely let Hahn fire him), until Ventura ‘resigned’ in 2016.Once Ventura was gone, then the rebuild began (in which Sale and Eaton were traded.).
ChiSoxCity
Maximum, if you can’t recognize the tremendous young talent Hahn’s accumulated, you either don’t watch much baseball, or you’re just a troll. You keep talking about “8 years blah-blah-blah”. Seriously? The team ownership didn’t commit to a desperately needed rebuild until recently, and refused to spend money on elite players before that—how is Hahn responsible? Any true White Sox fan appreciates the commitment, patience, and judgement Hahn has demonstrated in rebuilding the team and restructuring the organization from top to bottom. The job is not finished, but he’s set the course to a long championship run. Another high-end bat or starter added via free agency would put this Sox over the top, imo. That falls, again, on ownership to sign the check.
TLB2001
Yasmani Grandal is the richest free agent contract ever handed out by the White Sox, so it’s not like Hahn is the first GM in their history to not spend big on free agents (which btw has never proven to be a consistent means of winning)
maximumvelocity
You missed my point. I know they have acquired some very good young players. I said as much. But the rebuild is shallow, largely because of years of poor decision-making by Hahn. Once Robert, Madrigal and Kopech graduate, this will be a bottom-third system. Where is the wealth of talent from his drafts, notably among position players, which were an emphasis of drafts once Buddy Bell left? Why do Sox players stall once they hit AA? Where is the contribution from years and years of signing veteran free agents? Kenny Williams managed to find some solid players on a shoestring budget. Hahn’s veteran free agents have largely been busts. Where are the players acquired from other deals made during the rebuild? The draft, the poor targeting of free agents, the failure to develop players generating from the system, trading Tatis – that is all on Hahn. It does not take eight years to build a team into a winner if you know what you are doing. That’s called terrible management. Hahn does not deserve anyone’s trust, simply because he got very, very good players by trading very, very good players he failed to build around in his first attempt at a rebuild.
Just John
One thing he HAS done well is extend those very, very good players at the right time. It wasn’t simply having Chris Sale to trade for talent, but having him under that steal of a contract at that time. Eaton and Q were on pretty good contracts as well. Hahn’s no franchise savior, but he’s not as bad as most folks here make him out to be.
David Barista
I’d like to see Hahn acquire more top international talent… maybe he can leverage his reputation for rewarding prospects with player/team friendly contracts that buy out arbitration
Phanatic 2022
Overrated? I’m not sure I have ever read a positive comment about him..hahaha
Idioms for Idiots
Hahn earned some rope from the Big 3 trades and the extensions to Robert, Eloy, Yoan, and TA. Plus the Grandal signing.
Yes, he’s been deficient in other areas, so overall it’s a mixed bag. Had they not went into a rebuild in late ’16, Hahn would’ve been a huge bust, and, well basically they would’ve needed to go into a deep rebuild anyway to get out of that mess. So a deep rebuild was inevitable. We’ll ultimately find out how good or bad Hahn is as a GM in the next few years.
BTW, what the Sox were doing before Nov ’16 was retooling or reloading, or if you think that’s a load of B.S., then call it incompetence. Whatever works for you. But if you think what the Sox did before Nov ’16 was a rebuild, that was far and away the worst attempt at a rebuild in sports history. The rebuild started in Nov ’16, period, end of discussion.
Jeff Zanghi
There’s also the added risk of what if you give up a prospect or two for a guy and then the season gets cancelled before the playoffs… that would be a total nightmare. My guess is teams will want to wait until closer to the deadline to be sure that the MLB is indeed going to continue to just barrel through team infections (as it has with the Marlins and Cardinals) — because if they all of a sudden look like they’re changing course and considering cancelling things… a team would be devastated to have traded away assets for a rental who winds up not even playing a meaningful game for them!
louwhitakerisahofer
Perfect point. I personally don’t see many teams going for a one year rental for prospects approach this year, unless it’s a complete salary dump from a perennial non contender for a low level guy. I’m guessing the “big” deals will be better quality bench pieces.
Nick1992
I think big trades will happen during the offseason when there’s a vaccine next year.
Dogbone
I doubt KODAK is gonna help achieve that goal of a vaccine.
Briffle2
To add to that, if you’re a team looking to trade players, you’re most likely going to have to do so for a lower return than in normal seasons, further limiting the amount of trades.
mlbnyyfan
The White Sox at least a year or two away from contending. Wait until Indians lose Lindor and the Twins get older. The time is coming soon for the Sox to take over that division
Nick1992
They’re getting close just need better starting pitching.
DarkSide830
what if Lindor resigns?
ChiSoxCity
Cleveland’s not spending $300MM+ to resign Lindor.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
3-5 years is more accurate.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Lindor is not going to quit entering the prime of his career
stan lee the manly
My guess is its all going to be trades for guys with multiple years of control. If they can help this year, then great, but 2021 should be the target
ChiSoxCity
The White Sox have promoted most of their blue chip prospects. They’ve committed to longterm contracts to many of them, which means they’re committed to developing them longterm. There won’t be any major trades for that reason. They’ll look to improve via free agency during the offseason, and push hard for a ring in 2021.
sss847
he already flipped luis basabe for brady lail. i don’t trust him to be responsible with potential trade chips.
Dtownwarrior78
Being a die hard Tigers fan, I must say that Hahn has done an awesome job of tying up his young core of players to long deals well before they become super stars. I would LOVE to have Moncada, Robert and the other younger studs in that system to go along with Detroit’s upcoming pitching. But even more than that you don’t have to worry about the dreaded “time clock” starting b/c their already going to be there long term. I hate to say it but the White Sox are going to be good for a long time to come barring injuries and things of that sort.
ChiSox_Fan
Agree.
Unfortunately, Sox are incurring injuries. Too bad Kopech not pitching this season to replace Rodon.
Whifff
Sox seem to be right on schedule. This is the year they were supposed to get above 500 and start learning how to win. Why are Ka’lowns here upset with Hahn at this stage? Pure Ka’lownery so please stop posting and wasting our time.
TLB2001
I would be hesitant to bet the farm so to speak on a postseason that may or may not even happen.
Technically correct
In case anyone forgot, the trade deadline this year will be August 31 instead of the usual July 31. Postseason eligibility deadline is set for September 15.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I hope they don’t make any trades for rentals. I’m a die-hard White Sox fan, but this isn’t their year. Robert may well win RoY, Eloy could hit 20+ HRs, and their rotation has been undeniably better since the first time through it, but they’re still not at the Twins’ level. Maybe they’re more or less on the Indians’ level.
I also hope they don’t trade Tatis’ younger brother for a washed up pitcher. Hated that Shields trade at the time before Tatis even became a top prospect and hate it much more now.
mike127
@hyrax–what do you mean “this isn’t their year”? They don’t need to win the division to make it “their year”. They are more than a tick ahead of the expectation that the Cubs had in 2015. The Cubs went and got their free agent pitcher then and exposed their farm to the majors. They actually finished third in the division that year and lost in the NLCS.
Yes, it will be much more diffiicult to navigate the playoffs this year compared to any other—and it won’t be 29 teams year…..but they are positioned to have a solid chance.
Even if they don’t win the division, they should stand a good chance to have the best record of second place teams and host the first round.
If you are worried about them being as good as the Twins this year there’s a strong chance they won’t be as good as the Yankees or Dodgers or some other teams over the next 5-7 years, either.
I’d kind of sit and enjoy the uptick and see what September and October bring.
msqboxer
CWS currently have 9-10 guys 24 and older in their top 30 prospects who aren’t contributing to the current roster. Kopech needs to be moved down the prospect list into the back 20+ until he proves he physically and mentally play the game again. All of the other 9-10 guys should be trade bait for pitching…Collins, Sheets and all OF prospects are blocked.
Dtownwarrior78
I don’t know as much about Hahn as all you WS fans do but I know Kenny William’s was pretty damn inept when he was making the decisions there. But with the Tigers not playing the Cards b/c of Corona, I sat down and watched a full White Sox game and if they get some more pitching their gonna be tough to handle. Lots of young talent playing well but gotta stay healthy which they’ve had trouble with. The old saying goes the best ability is availability, and that’s a problem for them.
Whifff
Williams won a championship with something like a $60Mil payroll. A lot of GMs would like to suck that much too, one would think!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
don’t for the strike out on a dropped third strike tag out on aj pierzynski for some reason he was safe at first. I think that was vs Anaheim. That gave up the boost they need to ride into the world series.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Forget *
David Barista
Don’t forget that they lost 1 game the entire postseason and had the best record in the American League for the entire duration of the 2005 season. Oh yeah and 4 straight complete game performances from their pitching staff during the ALCS…. but yeah it must have been that dropped third strike call that gave them the boost…. haha
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
It wasn’t a dropped third strike. My point was that controversial play got them going. It screwed over Anaheim. In the end they won it all and haven’t been good since. Its win win for Chicago. They’ll never be the number 1 sports in Chicago. The wnba team is above them
lilojbone
What a shame that the “great” city of Chicago doesn’t want to see a team with talented young Hispanic men play. And these men make up the majority of the starters.
lilojbone
What a shame that the “great” city of Chicago doesn’t want to support a team of young talented Hispanic men. And the majority of these men are the starters.
jhomeslice
Hahn has had good and bad moves. His draft picks have been very lacking, but his trades from a couple years ago have been unbelievably good, you can’t take that away from him. Getting Moncada, Kopech, Eloy, Cease, Giolito among return players for Sale, Quintana, Eaton is about as good a return as possible, pretty much an overachievement if you asked me.
I think it is pretty clear that they will not pony up any young players of significant value, but they might be able to pry a starting pitcher who is at least slightly better than Gonzales or Rodon, away from a team looking to cut payroll, without giving up much. I have no idea who would be available specifically, but teams off to bad starts and who were not expected to compete very well like the Pirates, Royals, Orioles, Mets, D-Backs might have a pitcher or two among them who is pretty mediocre with a salary they would like to unload, but who would probably be better for the Sox rotation than their bottom two spots. It’s clear they probably need another pitcher if they are going to compete even for a bottom playoff spot this year. Gio has been horrific, more than twice as many hits/walks as innings in every outing this year.
nrd1138
I think Hahn has done an above average job, but I’m getting sick of people using the excuse that they are running up against good pitching or sluggers and that’s why they are having a hard time this season. Well, if you are a good team your job is to beat those teams. The Sox have good hitters, but you can tell many are young because they are not driving in runners on base in a lot of these games and off speed pitchers are killing them. If you do not have timely hitting you are going to fail miserably.Home runs are great, but not if they are solo shots. (also helps if the outfielders are not getting caught in the nets like fish allowing inside the park homers.) Good teams pitch well, have great defense, and timely hitting (Ie can driver runners in). The Sox are weird, some games they come back and you wonder how, and then you have games where they run into a buzz saw of a pitcher or hitters and are done by the 2nd inning.