The Major League Baseball Players Association is preparing to send a counter-proposal to the league which will call for 89 games at prorated salaries and expanded playoffs, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports (Twitter thread). It’s 25 fewer games than the 114-game proposal the union last sent and 13 games more than MLB’s 76-game proposal on Monday. Of course, the league’s proposal only guaranteed players 50 percent of their prorated salaries — plus another 25 percent should a 16-team postseason be played to completion. As such, it’s hard to envision this deal being accepted — or even considered — by the league.
The new number of games does bring the midpoint between the two proposals to 82 games — the originally proposed number by the league. And ESPN’s Jesse Rogers reports that the union proposal contains expanded 16-team playoffs in both 2020 and 2021, which would surely hold appeal to ownership. The Athletic’s Evan Drellich adds that the players’ share of the playoff pool would be set at $50MM in the event that attendance is either limited or prohibited. Should fans be able to attend — unlikely in 2020 but plausible in 2021 — the players’ share would be dependent on gate revenue, as usual.
The players are also willing to commit to “broadcast enhancements” in the regular season and the playoffs, per Rogers, which would presumably lead to players regularly being mic’ed up to interact with the broadcast team during play. They’d also concede that non-high-risk players opting not to play during the COVID-19 pandemic (e.g. players who have family members at higher risk) would not receive salary or service time. High-risk players could opt not to play and still receive both.
Tonight’s proposal also contains several new elements. Bleacher Report’s Scott Miller tweets that an All-Star Game and Home Run Derby could be held after the World Series concludes — which could create further revenue for teams. The Wall Street Journal’s Jared Diamond, meanwhile, tweets that the union proposal seeks to establish a joint, $5MM fund with the league to support minor league players and drive social justice initiatives.
Still, the biggest issue hasn’t been the potential for expanded postseason play or even the overall number of games, but rather the disagreement on player salary. The union has steadfastly insisted upon prorated salaries, while ownership has continued to push the notion that additional pay cuts are necessary (while making brash claims about team profitability). Ownership has also staunchly refused to consider playing beyond the end of October, and that’s sure to be another roadblock in this latest proposal; Rogers reports that the proposal calls for the regular season to begin on July 10 and run through Oct. 11. As Diamond observes, that would ensure that MLB playoffs don’t go up against the NBA playoffs, which are set to conclude on Oct. 12.
If the sides cannot come to an agreement on salary terms, it seems increasingly likely that commissioner Rob Manfred will implement a roughly 50-game season with prorated salaries. All of the reported components of tonight’s proposal may create optimism that an actual negotiation could finally commence, but MLB Network’s Jon Heyman gives plenty of reason for caution (Twitter link). One ownership source reacted to Heyman: “We’re nowhere.”
Why are they even bothering with these bad faith statecraft facades? Do they think they’re fooling anyone?
This seems to me to be a lot of progress. The opt out terms are defined, expanded playoffs for two years is owner win, games are at a point where they’re reasonably close. I would think a midpoint on games and maybe some salary deferrals will get them close.
I feel much better now than I did this morning
This is where I would link you all to “Who Do You Think You’re Fooling,” by Donna Summer, if it were allowed, well here and the article with the nonsense from DeWitt from the Cardinals earlier now that I think of it.
Manfried will be on the HOTSEAT! He needs to go! Watch the Astros will win it all to further complicate matters!MLB BS 2020
Bud Selig is in the HOF and he let the steroid era happen.* have been happening since the strike because of all the cheating
LMAO!
Selig let it happen? You are just showing your ignorance. You should review Marvin Miller quotes. You should read Fehr’s testimony in front of congress.
It took an act of congress to get steroid testing and it was feckless.
The players union is why we didn’t have steroid testing in the 90s.
SoCal, you have to remember that Johnny Dubz is the same LWNJ who thinks the Astros players should be banned from baseball and thrown in jail.
This is the most reasonable offer presented by far. This is on the owners now. Play an 81 game season, pay the players full pro-rated salaries, and defer some of money over three years for the highest paid players. Done. Plus, given how things have progressed with Covid-19, the likelihood of fans in stadiums is very high. The owners are acting like children.
It really is that easy, and it’s insane the owners are destroying their sport over such a small amount of money. Owners take the profits every year, but the one year they might see some losses they want the players to share the losses? Do they not see how tone deaf that is.
Agreed. But what’s crazy about the mid-way point on the # of games and where they are likely headed in terms of salary is pretty much where every ‘average Joe’ proposed before this horrific public negotiation started taking place. It’s crazy that they couldn’t just come to a simple straight forward solution a month ago. This posturing – from both sides – has been over the top absurd.
89 games, pro-rated salaries, drag the season into November and no guarantee of fans in attendance. You said something about being tone deaf or something?
Except 40 % of the owners revenue is from fans. So the full prorated salaries is probably a nonstarter. The owners concern is that after 80+ games it will be fall and the players will say well, we are worried that covid is coming back so we won’t play the postseason.
If there is a postseason, they have to play. They are contractually prohibited from striking.
The players agreeing to play for prorated salaries is them ALREADY taking a paycut on their GUARANTEED contracts
Sigh. All their contracts have Force Majeure provisions which makes them unguarenteed in time of emergency. So none has a guarantee for this year. Claiming it was too dangerous for healthy young men to play is not a strike. It would not fly for owners to try to get players to play even if we have a tiny increase in cases
Watch something other than Fox TV and then try again without casually risking billions of dollars of the owners money in exchange for full pay for any hours actually worked by the players.
It isn’t casually risking billions of ownership dollars to hold them to contracts that they willing agreed to when they signed the players to guaranteed contracts in the first place.
Players already agreed to take prorated salaries, which is a steep concession. When it comes down to it, it is the players who have been negotiating, mostly against themselves, since the beginning. Ownership hasn’t made anything close to a reasonable offer since thius all started.
Go look up Force Majeure in regards to contracts
Fans is gonna depend on where you are. On the east coast here I doubt there will be fans for a while,, maybe by the playoffs you’ll have some reduced capacity attendance, but I’m not even convinced of that.
463DoublePlay…perfectly said! Well done.
I’m not really sure how’s fair. You are asking owners to pay full prorated salaries without a large portion any paying customers.
Exactly right Halo11Fan. Cancel all the concession workers and the businesses renting space in the stadium too, which results in added income for the team IF they own their own stadium.
when America needs baseball most of all, these overpaid babies are crying about money ? Sorry A Hole ! i dont know how im going to feed my family next week and your crying about your multi million dollar contract. BOYCOTT BASEBALL !
steel cage match. dont come out until you have an agreement.
at this point I’d rather watch the Steel Cage match than baseball sheesh
I agree. If they didn’t work everyone would still be in the cage.
I was thinking of the same last evening. That they should call Vince McMahon, have a steel cage match and whoever wins wins. However, I think it be more fun if it was a Royal Rumble.
Just cancel the season. Neither side is going to win.
Just curious…. you and the other “cancel the season” types…..is that what you really want? If so…..you sure aren’t much of a fan.
It is possible to be a true baseball fan and also to be realistic. At this point the season is on life support. Time to pull the plug.
Im not sure you understand how life support is supposed to work
Why is it on life support? You seem awful emotional and dramatic dynamite
Well….I’m a baseball fan and I want to see baseball. You’re a fan but you want it canceled because you are realistic? One day I’m going to die. That’s realistic…but for now I prefer life.
When did “realistic” and “having the patience and attention span of a tantrum throwing toddler” become synonyms?
Realistic is acknowledging your drops aren’t so dynamite.
Dead baseball
Boycott
Stupid everyone
ah, the negotiator
So your favorite team is one one of the 16 to make a post season tournament format. The best player tests positive right before it starts. They play on. Who really cares right now?!?!? There is so much going on the world and these two sides are all about money while the unemployed are struggling to get assistance with no hope for even future job revenue.
Demonstrations and marches are acceptable but going to see your relative in hospice is forbidden. Owners AND players want more money and insist it’s safe to resume activities, but businesses and churches are still forced to lock their doors.
No, I really don’t care if there is baseball this year because no one knows if it’s safe and damn it, no ones gonna care who dies if it’s not.
If it’s not safe for schools or businesses, then it’s not safe for athletes and sporting events. So which is it?
It is safe for schools, businesses, and most of society. They’ve already moved on from Covid as they realized they were losing support
Jim stem – VERY WELL STATED!!
Jim – It’s safe for everyone with no underlying conditions and always has been.
I wouldn’t believe the Washington Post on this one. Or ever.
Good for you. Why believe anything? Good lord.
I mean, technically only Nascar has officially returned. No reason to crown other sports proactive until we actually see them play regardless of fandom or not
Golf starts Thursday
UFC, Wrestling never stopped ( Yeah I know not a sport exactly)
, and golf starts this week. But I get your point.
It isn’t what we want. It’s what we expect when players haven’t come down a penny from what they expected before the pandemic on a per game basis while acting like they’re being abused.
It’s mid June and players haven’t shown any sign they will consider anything at all. Anything the owners try to offer is just used as cannon fodder in attacks.
This offer is $600 million less than the players’ last offer.
The owners offer is potentially $200 million more than their previous offer, but $241 million less in guaranteed salary.
The players are moving toward a settlement while the owners are putting a new dress on an old hooker.
Maybe, just maybe, the owners opening offer was closer to their bargaining cutoff than some people give them credit for.
And maybe, just maybe, the MLBPA opening offer was so far past the endzone, off the field, and into the parking lot they can have movement on a reported dollar value difference in the offers but still not have made as much movement distance wise towards where the conpromuse has to be.
If we say “let’s meet tomorrow at midfield” and when the day comes I walk out at the 35 yd line while you come out of the endzone tunnel, of course you’ve got further to go than me.
phamdownbytheriver
Baseball is about history, and at some point the season becomes a mockery.
If this is the Union’s counter offer, then just cancel the season. This counter offer is a joke.
I really wonder who is really expecting this to be a season worth entering into the record books. If baseball is played at all this year they’re going to run out of asterisks. At best it will be glorified exhibition games played in empty stadiums, and that’s at best. That’s why some of us really don’t care about the outcome very much at this point, except for how it is likely to play out in the CBA negotiations next year. If the two sides can’t come to an agreement on starting play this year, the next two could be a repeat of 1994-95.
What exactly is stopping them from just sitting down at a table (over Zoom) and hashing out the details? There’s no way this works.
Negotiating strategy, a little time left, the high stakes, the all important court of public opinion. Just the process working itself out.
Or not working at all
Most are understanding if a virus cancels the season. None of us are at peace with money being the core issue. That’s simply unacceptable and MLB will slide down the list of popular sports and miss an opportunity to reach new fans.
Perfect comment. I believe the NFL will be ruined by politics and MLB will be ruined by greed
Great comment. Agree 100%. NBA will devour itself too.
NBA will see their popularity grow, sorry red state bros.
I haven’t watched an NBA game since Jordan retired.
Naw, the numbers state otherwise. While they KILL the social game, their growth from revenue and new fans isnt what you think it is.
Which time? He retired 3 times.
I haven’t watched a game since the Sonics were kidnapped.
Men’s Curling will be destroyed by polyester pants.
Well said.
GREED IS KILLING ALL THE BASE BALL FAN!!!!
Tommy Wiseeau?
You’re tearing me apart lisa… anyway how’s your sexlife
+1
Oh hi mark
wait… the commissioner can just make it happen? why didn’t we do they a month ago?
Right?
Because what the collective bargaining agreement allows him to do is not what either side wants.
Because it’s only 50 games he would
mandate. The owners already agreed to pay the full prorated amount for 50 games. But 50 games is awful and silly in baseball terms. Plus mandating anything will cause longterm drama and make the MLBPA mad and harder to deal with in the future.
The argument that 50 games is silly is completely manufactured BS from agents.
50,70,90 are all the same. Non seasons done so that fans can get some entertainment and so that the industry can get some income.
Are you paid to post that?
I feel like whoever represents MLB negotiating is the same person I am negotiating with on eBay for a pair of used pants that they want 85% off and me to pay for shipping because they were taking it off my hands.
You mean they want to see you with the pants around your ankles? I guess that’s about 85% off.
lol
He’s got some high ankles
Right now, winning the division in MLB is the greatest single accomplishment in professional sports. It requires sustained excellence over opponents for the longest period of time. Expand the playoffs and you diminish the importance of winning the division even more than it has been since the adoption of wild cards. You might as well think of the regular season as an incredibly long Spring and Summer Training. All that seems to matter is the playoffs. And if it’s a near given that you’re going to make the playoffs, and only the playoffs matter, why should I spend $75 for a ticket to a meaningless game? But wait, you say, some few teams won’t make the playoffs. True, and that means the season is devoted to identifying the handful of losers, not the winners. How sad. Do we want MLB to become the NHL or NBA or NFL? In my view, to get into the playoffs A TEAM NEEDS TO WIN SOMETHING.
Everybody will receive “participation trophy” in October.
That’s what this world has come to.
Socialism in baseball…..everybody is a winner!
And in the end we all lose!
But they all get a trophy! Unbelievable! Sad!
its one year…
I like that his trite sarcasm is all the reinforcement needed for your world view.
Keeps things simple that way.
LOL. Socialism killed baseball, who knew.
The reality is these expanded playoffs are about MONEY, period. Better talk to the capitalistic owners on the participation trophy thing.
No baseball player left behind..
.
Thats a fine opinion, but baseball is losing viewership because of the few playlff teams, a lot of teams are starring down juggernauts in their divisions.
Yawn
This seems like the most reasonable proposal we’ve seen so far, but there is no way they’re getting a season and postseason in that’s going to last through November.
As much moronic hand wringing and pearl clutching as there is about it, 60 or 70 games is the last best reasonable possibility.
MLB can’t strike, right? If so, not sure if there’s anything the MLBPA can do.
Pretty much next move is MLB will use the :Best effort” clause in the March agreement and gets to decide the games played. the union will have to accept it or go on strike which they will.
The clause in the March agreement states:
“MLB will propose a schedule “using best efforts to play as many games as possible, while taking into account player safety and health, rescheduling needs, competitive considerations, stadium availability, and the economic feasibility of various alternatives.”
The key phrase there is “as many games as possible. MLB may claim that more games are not “possible” because of the players’ insistence on full prorated salaries, but that would almost certainly result in a grievance being filed.
In that case, the players would insist that MLB open the books to verify their claim, and that is required by standard labor practices where an inability to pay is asserted. The owners definitely do not want that heading into the next round of CBA talks, so they’re likely to move toward an extended season.
The other thing with imposing a schedule is that MLB has to answer, maybe financially, to their broadcast partners, and their fans, and there may be players who think it’s simply not worth playing for 1/3 of their salary.
This is how negotiations get done. Just that this one is taking place on social media where every hiccup is being analyzed. There will be baseball.
“while taking into account” “and the economic feasibility of various alternatives”
Those might be the Key phrase part though and the owners do have that right so it could go on forever.
That is the claim that they would have to make, and would be the subject of a grievance, which would lead to discovery. Under NLRB rules, when a party claims inability to pay, they are required to provide the requested documentation. The players know this as do the owners, who desperately do not want to open their books heading into collective bargaining talks. That underlying factor could be what forces the owners into an agreement.
Wrong. MLB has much more leverage than being given credit for. Parse it out:
“using best efforts to play as many games as possible,” – obvious benchmark is compared to a normal season ending sept 30, otherwise you’d indefinitely claim it could go into future years
“while”:
1) “taking into account player safety and health”
– you need a training and ramp up period, and, you need to account for cold weather setting in if you extend the season which increases injuries while making controlled pitching more difficult
2) “rescheduling needs,” – again combine how many days are available after training ramp up through sept, nod to player health and needing some off days, build in days to make up rained out games, you need some travel days built in, etc
3) “competitive considerations,” – combines multiple readings of the word competitive since you need players able to perform by ramping up, need weather to allow productive pitching and not just hazardous batting practice, the need to ensure playoffs happen for the competition aspect, and, even go as far as make sure the product is competitive with other programming by not competing with the NFL
4) “stadium availability,” self explanatory, but lease agreements give windows of use by the ball club not to mention other preexisting obligations that the site be used for other purposes often scheduled far in advance that could preclude altering the season window too much, ignoring bans by local jurisdictions on venue usage due to health concerns
And finally 5) “and the economic feasibility of various alternatives.” – you can prove the loss of ticket and concessions revenues to be over 4 billion for the course of a season with no attendance. There isn’t a requirement to open every book with every expense to show substantial losses. With a 10b industry, where 4b is player salary alone, and 4b evaporates from gates, 2b is a tiny piece of pie for everything else. The standard isn’t whether mlb teams can avoid bankruptcy by giving in to MLBPA proposals. The standard is, would the MLB proposal be more economically viable than the MLBPA one.
I’m not saying that the players would win a grievance, but it’s a fight that the owners would much rather not have.
Since the owners have already proposed schedules of 82 and 76 games, much of the arguments other than economics disappear. The rationale for implementing a greatly shortened season boils down to economics.
The phrase “as many games as possible” means that the owners would be claiming that more games are not possible for economic reasons. That is, an inability to pay. This can be argued both ways, to be sure, but this is what the players would claim in a grievance.
The clock is in the owners’ favor as time passes and getting the games in by the end of September becomes more difficult. It strengthens their claim.
This is a fight that the owners do not want to have. They could win or lose the grievance, but having to open the books as they begin collective bargaining is something they want to avoid. They have to weigh this against any cost savings by playing a shorter season.
This is really beginning to feel like an episode of Pawn Stars. Continual arguing back and forth until the inevitable happens and they eventually come to an agreement at 50% of the value. Just cut to the chase and agree at 81 already.
89 game is kind of a setup for MLB to counter to 81
I think at this point the owners need to bite the bullet and go with the ‘pro-rated salaries’ — I understand they (at least say) they will lose money doing that BUT… the difference (overall) between 75% and 100% doesn’t seem like (in the bigger/long-term picture) to be worth risking a massive rift between the players and owners going forward. I mean I understand it’s millions and millions of dollars. But the players are willing to go with the extra playoff games which should generate more $ (this year AND next) so they should be able to make back some of the $ they could potentially lose. Maybe the final compromise could be the players agreeing to a potential ‘pay cut’ IF the post-season does end up getting cancelled. Because in that scenario I do understand the owners/league would be out a HUGE amount of $. So maybe a compromise could be 75% of pro-rated salaries that goes up to 100% as long as there are playoffs. And/or maybe even finding a way to compromise and ‘defer’ some of the salary to next year or beyond. Basically promise the players their ‘pro-rated salaries’ as initially negotiated… but make the stipulations that the playoffs have to take place because if they don’t obviously the league would lose massive amounts of revenue. I know this is a lot of “ifs” and compromises. But at this point I really think for the “good of the game” the two sides need to come together and figure something out to avoid a rift that lasts for years and years to come. Even if it means losing a little bit of $ this season…just figure out ways to make up for it over the course of the next couple seasons. If salaries can be deferred somewhat… then teams that do really lose a lot of $ can always trim payroll in future seasons to make up for it.
simple solution. play for 100% prorated salary but let owners defer half of the salary of players making over $4m for 3 years
I’m a little surprised that deferred salaries weren’t mentioned.
The players put that on the table in their last offer, although only if the playoffs were canceled and with a 6% interest rate, but the owners just rejected it.
Players have to be concerned that the owners would include the numbers next year in their budgets and cut payroll even more.
they are hoping the owners bring up deferred salaries, so the owners do respond with deferred salaries and a paycut.
Owners aren’t exactly eager to defer salaries. Deputy Commissioner Dan Halem last week, when the MLBPA’s 114-game proposal was rejected: “Deferring salaries, with interest, is the economic equivalent of assuming more debt. Clubs already have assumed $2 billion in additional debt that must be serviced and do not have the financial capacity to push more 2020 financial obligations into future years without impacting their financial stability.”
The players offered to defer salaries, but
– only $100 million deferred
– only deferred if the post season is canceled
– 6% interest, which is probably more than they could get investing it
But they did put the issue on the table. If the owners had concerns about cash flow, they could bring it back on better terms.
The players fear that the owners would just fold the deferred payments into their balance sheets for next year and slash payrolls.
Not going to he a season. Sorry. MLB wants the players to enter into the new CBA negotiations starving, and needing to get paid.
In case anybody who has any power to influence this outcome is listening, people are figuring out every day that there are other things that they can do with their summers besides watch baseball. There are real stars outside at night and things called trees that they can look at and Paths that they can walk without having to bundle up like they do in other seasons. Somebody needs to get a clue or baseball will lose whatever tenuous grip it thinks it has on the consumers attention and pocketbook
Proposals are slowly inching closer to each other. This proposal won’t be accepted but hey, they are at least making offers back and forth. So still some hope of getting an agreement.
Yes, if progress continues at this rate, the 2020 season should be able to debut by August, 2024.
At least they came back with a more reasonable offer. It shows both sides are trying to some degree. I was expecting the Union to again reject the League’s offer. This is a good opportunity for the owners to swallow some of the loss while players take a bit of a haircut as well.
We have to remember, neither side is responsible for the shutdown. I’m sympathetic that each side is trying to make something work under these unusual circumstances.
At least there is dialogue. I think they will have something done by Sunday
Enough!!!! Let’s play ball and let the egos GO!!!!, there are more issues of recognition in this country now! Cut the bull and play AMERICA’S PASTIME PLEASE!!!!
Issues of recognition? Is this similar to facial recognition software?
There shouldn’t be all of this editorializing about the owners claims in regards to revenue. We have no hard data and until we do its all speculation
Exactly.
Anytime someone tries to hide something, we should just give them the benefit of the doubt since we don’t have any evidence to the contrary.
81 games 81% prorated salary with 16 team playoff should get it done.
I hope so. I think it is fair for both sides.
Gap getting smaller, some details worked out. I know I’m being optimistic here.
Stop being greedy players and let’s play ball.
Stop being exceptionally greedy owners, and lets play ball.
Ya get what ya play for, no more. Actually players should play for less and some for free.
So if players get 75% of their salary, should they only give 75% effort? That’s what it appears the owners are asking for. As a fan, I think the players are giving enough by prorating their salary per game, especially when they have full year contracts.
That makes absolutely no sense. The fact players salaries are guaranteed in baseball even if you suck is already wrong. I wish my job had to pay me 10 years for not performing.
Are you the real Paul Konerko? Probably not since Pauly sides with the players.
If players receive 75% of their salary they should be grateful they are well-paid for a sport they love. Very well paid.
almost there…we’ll get a deal soon
You know, forget what I said earlier about reasonable offers. Heh. Reason is done. Reason is gone. Here’s the bottom line:
Both sides are greedy.
Both sides are lying.
Both sides are negotiating (or not) in stunningly bad faith.
Neither side wants to play this season, and when they say otherwise they are lying.
And finally, both sides want it to be the other’s fault when there is no season.
Had they been honest at the outset that they didn’t consider it healthy, either financially or physically to play this year, it would’ve been all right. Instead, we’ve had three months of entitled rich people arguing with other entitled rich people in public, which is going to lead to half a decade of bad PR which is going to get worse when the inevitable labor war comes.
I won’t be a hypocrite and say I won’t watch the sport whenever it comes back, I absolutely will, but this is the worst moment the sport has had since 1918, and it’s only going to get worse.
The bottom line is there was never going to be baseball this year, but the journey to a cancelled season could’ve come a lot easier.
Nobody wants to watch the All Star Game at mid season, why bother after? Huge money grab. 3.5 hour games, high ticket prices , and greed. Sounds like to me a great start to the end.
They’re 13 games apart- between 89 and 76.
They’re less than 20 percent of full salaries apart, between 35.1 and 54.9 percent.
The owners have to drop their last move in reverse, which tied regular season salaries to having post season games. The players have conceded to regular post season shares dependent on gate receipts, or $ 50 M. Last year’s share was like $ 90M.
Make it 82 games and 45 to 50 percent of salaries. Season is over by October 4, just like originally scheduled. Git R done.
The season was originally scheduled to end on Sept. 27.
The players’ 89-game proposal adds up to $2.2 billion in salaries. The owners’ 76-game proposal totaled $1.3 billion, with only $1 billion guaranteed. They’re nowhere near close.
If the players were really concerned about covid exposure risk and being away from their families as MLBPA has said, they’d be happy about a shorter season.
This is 100% ONLY about money. Fix that, the rest falls it place.
Make a short season of around 60 games with all but guaranteed chance of playoffs before covid comes back. Give the players as a whole, not just the participants, a much bigger slice of post season money.
Owners get shorter schedule mitigating “losses.”
Players minimize time away from families and smallest virus exposure.
Both sides get the most cash possible.
From all that I have read, I think the suggestion to bring in new participants and ideas to the negotiation process makes the most sense. I mean what creative approach has been brought forward to this point by either side?
Next season will be a disaster for the players who will not be under contract,…both with the lack of free agency spending and with veteran players hoping to get their option picked up by a club. Compromising at this point doesn’t show weakness, it sets a tone for a more manageable 2021 and the subsequent CBA negotiation. Manfred setting a 50 game season is the worst of all outcomes.
Get ready for a fan boycott in 2021 nobody better buy a single ticket the first week of next season, it’s the owners fault the players want to play and the owners only care about money. So as fans we do have a say so and we can boycott games next year to show that we can impact the game too
If you think this is just the owners fault you aren’t paying any attention. The players are as complicit in this if not more so than the owners.
Not Really. The players do not need to negotiate a cut in pay, they have guaranteed Contracts that would have to be paid in full if the season were to be canceled. But, the Players did agree to a prorated cut in their contracts to play an 82 game season. Then the Owners reneged and now are trying to cut it even more. The Owners therefore have to come to terms with the Players or they will be held responsible for all of their signed contracts, in full 100%.
Not true
Simply not true. Paragraph 11 of the uniform players agreement in the CBA gives the league the right to suspend all games and only pay players for the games that are played in case of an emergency. The owners would be able to not pay the players at all by the agreement. If the owners say tomorrow we just aren’t having a season, the players would not get any money but what was already given them by that agreement in March.
MLB has the right to cancel the season, with no pay, if a national emergency is called and affects the game. The U.S. has been under a national emergency since March.
Id advise everyone to stream the games when possible. Don’t go buying mlbtv
Both side state their terms and two people
Play Russian roulette whoever wins gets their deal.
I want baseball and if it doesn’t happen I’m going to build a fire Manfred army online.
Can both Russian Roulette champions/participants be Scott Boras? MLBPA gets first shot. MLB gets second. So on so forth.
Whatever you propose , do it with haste brethren
Why does baseball seem to negotiate through the media? It seems to be the only sport that lists every proposal and counter proposal in the media. So then egos get in the way. Baseball starting offer was 82 games what two weeks ago? Players ego then says we can’t agree to that let’s do 114! Baseball ego says no way then 50. Back and forth they go and two weeks later they seem to be headed back to to original 82 games with prorated salaries somewhere between 75 and 100 percent. Basically close to where they started at two weeks ago. I’m glad there looks like there will be a season but a lot of the selfish image baseball has could be avoided and time saved if they just negotiated behind closed doors and kept things out of the media.
I’d much rather see a 50 game season to create a ranking and have ALL the teams go to the playoffs. March Madness style tournament to allow for a miracle Cinderella team… yes, I’m an O’s fan….
Counter with 88. Then they’ll argue for two months about how to meet in the middle.
Playing the all star game after the World Series seems too long. They will have 3+5+7+7 playoff series, plus off days, which will be at least another week, or 29 days. It will be hard for the hitters to keep their timing for the all star game for those that don’t make it to the post season.
If they want to push the season out to Oct. 11, then they should have the all-star game during the season, in August.
From July 10 to Oct. 11 is 94 days. If they don’t have Thursday after the all-star game off, all star week will remove 3 days for regular season games. This leaves 91 days. If they have 3 days off in the 7 weeks before the all-star week and 3 days off after, then this leaves time for 85 games. An 84 game season seems reasonable.
I would view the October 11 date and the 89 games as a week of games to be sacrificed in a final deal. The players know that the TV contracts for the regular season end and the playoff contracts begin October 4 and 5, respectively. MLB does not want to mess with that.
MLB will play an 82 game schedule because they’re not really losing money by doing so, especially with an extra $ 223 million for an extra round of playoffs added in.
Still, having the all-star game after the World Series would mean that some players will have almost a month off. I’d have the all-star game during the season.
July 10 to Oct 4 is 87 days. All-star week loses 3 days. I can see a 78 game season.
I say single elimination game for each playoff. Spaced 6 days apart so each team gets to throw their ace every game, but they have to pitch at least 6 innings unless they give up 5 runs.
Time to see who’s best stacks up the best.
Why do we even comment on this incremental childish peeing contest anymore? Stop teasing us and figure it out like adults.
why is it that 2020 playoffs are already considered to be no fans? college football is going to have fans, at least at 50%. So why is MLB saying no chance of fans? Apparently is alright to gather in large groups as shown this week so why cant we all go watch a freaking baseball game?
They are so greedy and Tony Clarke is in space. That’s the best they have to represent the players? They don’t play this season it will take a decade to recover.
Yeah this is gonna kill baseball. Crazy watching MLB commit suicide like this. I won’t ever give them another dollar. This is the single most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen and I say that as a lifelong, diehard fan. Screw them all.
Some snappy YouTube or Hulu exec needs to create an alternative baseball format quick! Imagine fans drafting online teams (with certain parameters) and then those same *real* teams playing out some type of shorten season. Or let fans run a mock draft to select 12 teams with players who are available and interested. Obviously a shorten season, but the network & players could split ALL the media revenue and pinch out owners. Where are the dang media moguls when you need one?!
Owners can’t see the forest thru the trees. They will pay a financial price next season if fans disagree with his they handle 2020, and some some smart entrepreneur will create a 2nd league or some other outlet for players to make money doing what they love. Players have sought a Rev sharing plan forever, and owners can’t be trusted to disclose real financials of their clubs. This will all end badly for the sport we love. But necessity is the mother of invention – and someone will invent an alternative to MLB as we now know it if owners continue to act greedy.
I’m in favor of a real version of BASEketball, Blernsball, or even a dystopian Rollerball type baseball league.
Crazy how it all works isn’t it? Basically two sides publicly fighting over a few hundred million, which for all of us is more than we’d ever dream of having, but for MLB it is one teams payroll, or maybe 2 teams, or one long term contract. I expect in a week or less we’ll have it settled – owners will declare a 50 game schedule (or thereabouts) and start things rolling, players will balk at it, then the two sides actually sit at a zoom meeting and hash out the details – 80 games with 25% of salary deferred either until the post-season is over (unless canceled in which case it is never to be paid), or deferred over 3 years. Shifting risk from owners to players to some degree. 16 team playoffs the next 2 seasons, leading to a permanent 16 team playoff after the next set of negotiations plus 2 more teams (expansion) and radical realignment (all regional, AL & NL might still exist but more in name than any other way) with a DH across the board, mic’ed up players every game to help the TV sell more, adjusted payroll tax (higher penalties but at a higher dollar level), increase minimum salary, draft lottery of some kind. Win for both sides in the long run.
@jnorthey – I hope you’re right and I hope club staffers share your post with both sides to generate some creative thinking. But my warm and fuzzies have been replaced by chills at this point.
I like the idea of 25% of their prorated salary being deferred to the next season. To make it better for those minor leaguers that spend some time in the majors on a split contract, let’s have the 25% only apply to prorated over $500k.
For example, if a mlb player has a $1,500,000 contract and if his prorated contract is $750k, then the deferred amount would be 25% of $250k.
I’d love for all players to be mic’d up. Anthony Rizzo and Kris Bryant were gold in spring training.
Why 89 games. How will teams have half a game. Play a 5 inning game in pouring rain then call it with the team that’s ahead getting the win.
10 games in-division (40)
4 games out of division (40)
9 interleague?
Sean Doolittle’s quote makes no sense to me. He says that players are taking their hardline stance to protect future players. This is not the CBA negotiation. The intent is to find a way to play the game in the middle of a pandemic. It is as if Tony Clark gave him a note card and said “say this”…it’s old drivel that really means nothing now.
Prediction: Negotiations break down completely. Manfred declares 50 game season. Players strike. See y’all in 2021z
Deferred salaries at 6% isn’t a gift to the owners. It’s a gift to the players.
Don’t any of you have any extra money in a CD or anything?
Under those terms, it was a non starter, but they put the issue on the table. They opened it up, but the owners didn’t pick it up. Deferred salaries, done right, could solve a lot of cash flow problems.
Say every player making more than $10 million has salary deferred for a year at 1%. Or 2 years at 2%.
Yes, the deferred salaries need to be at 0%.
13 games apart between the Players’ 89 games and the owners 76 games. Shouldn’t be a problem.
$800 million between the players’ $2.2 billion for 89 games and the owners’ 1.4 billion for 76 games at 75%.
Settling on 81 games puts the players at $2.0B and the owners at $1.5B.
$500 million difference.
TV revenue from the playoffs is currently $775 million and would increase to $1 billion by expanding one round to 16 teams- per USA today. Two more years at $225 million is $ 450 million out of the $500 million gap.
The owners’ linking one third of player salaries for the regular season to the post season was a giant step backwards. They actually guaranteed less money for salaries than they did in their previous “sliding scale” proposal.
So that’s where we are.
blessyouboys.com/2020/6/10/21286001/mlb-players-pr…
Fehr, and his successor Weiner, grew the sport and there were ~~25 years of labor piece. Everybody made a lot of $$. I think one thing they did well was negotiate at a table. Clark obviously has a different tactic, and we are all seeing the results. What I do not understand is why the Union members are like sheep following this guy.
This seems to at least be trying to make progress. I will say one thing that is bothering me is that I keep hearing people and especially pod casters say that players already took a pay cut. This simply is not true. Paragraph 11 of the uniform player contract in the current CBA states that if the season is shortened due to an emergency the players will be paid a prorated contract only for games played. The players have not taken any pay cut at all yet this year. They have put the entire burden of playing without fans on the owners. Many believe that is fair since the owners don’t share higher profits than expected, but at least be honest about it.
Both sides are in the wrong here but people saying it is just the owners are just not being honest at all. The players haven’t made any real effort to be fair either.
Lets make it fun.
82 game season. 16 teams in playoffs. If you make the playoffs you get full pro-rated salary. If you don’t, you get 80 pct.
Lets go.
One of the things that the parties have actually agreed upon is a regioinal schedule where they will play only teams within their own region. That is within their division and the same regional division in the other league. There won’t be any east vs west or west vs central, etc. this season.
For an 82 game schedule, it might be
52 games vs division teams- 13 apiece
30 games vs interleague regional teams- 6 apiece
or something
We got below 7,000 deaths per week (1,000 a day) right around Memorial Day (fitting) and now we are at about 6,000 per week. That’s a slow decay rate but manageable. So the half life is still about a month. When does the death rate become acceptable enough to have baseball? Who knows. There are still hot spots all over, but the heavy population northeast states have taken a big piece of both the counts and the rates. NY, NJ, CT, MA, PA have all kind of somewhat driven the numbers, now we’ll have to see where the rest of the country goes as we reopen things. CA, IL, TX, FL may be trending up, we’ll see. The numbers are not right, that is unquestionable, they are low. But ignorant fools will say otherwise. Personally, I really don’t care what baseball does right now. They can propose and counter propose all the live long day for all I care. It’s really not their call anyway. I’m tired of the ignorance, the misinformation, the politics, the republicans (my party), and baseball. Find other things to do (oops, I just sat here and posted this rant). Sorry.
I don’t consider questioning everything you see and hear making someone an ignorant fool, especially after the last few years of lies on top of lies trying to oust a duly elected President. In fact, I think it means the exact opposite. Irregardless of that, baseball needs to get on with it. It’s turned into a strike/lockout situation.
No way you’re a Republican if you’re saying you’re tired of them with all the asinine BS coming out of the democrats. Nice try
If it is a 50 game season, why not tank it and get that #1 pick. There will be an * next to any success anyways.
As always, the owners constantly poor mouth their profit margins, never ever mentioning that it’s the PLAYERS who are the product on the field that fans pay to see. I’ve been to many, many MLB games, but at no time did I purchase a ticket hoping to see an owner. The players are the only commodity in the game. Pay the men who make the games worth attending.
Another farce. What a joke this is. They’ve had months to ‘fix’ this and they couldn’t. I don’t recognize 60 game seasons or 89 game seasons. Both will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to the ‘winners’ name.
Another farce. What a joke this is. They’ve had months to ‘fix’ this and they couldn’t. I don’t recognize 60 game seasons or 89 game seasons. Both will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to the ‘winners’ name.
Another farce. What a joke this is. They’ve had months to ‘fix’ this and they couldn’t. I don’t recognize 60 game seasons or 89 game seasons. Both will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to the ‘winners’ name.
Another farce. What a joke this is. They’ve had months to ‘fix’ this and they couldn’t. I don’t recognize 60 game seasons or 89 game seasons. Both will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to the ‘winners’ name.
Another farce. What a joke this is. They’ve had months to ‘fix’ this and they couldn’t. I don’t recognize 60 game seasons or 89 game seasons. Both will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to the ‘winners’ name..