10:46PM: Correcting an earlier report, USA Today Bob Nightengale tweets that there won’t be any counter-offer from the league to the players.
9:12PM: Major League Baseball has also released a statement in regards to today’s news…
We are disappointed that the MLBPA has chosen not to negotiate in good faith over resumption of play after MLB has made three successive proposals that would provide players, Clubs and our fans with an amicable resolution to a very difficult situation caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The MLBPA understands that the agreement reached on March 26th was premised on the parties’ mutual understanding that the players would be paid their full salaries only if play resumed in front of fans, and that another negotiation was to take place if Clubs could not generate the billions of dollars of ticket revenue required to pay players. The MLBPA’s position that players are entitled to virtually all the revenue from a 2020 season played without fans is not fair to the thousands of other baseball employees that Clubs and our office are supporting financially during this very difficult 2020 season. We will evaluate the Union’s refusal to adhere to the terms of the March Agreement, and after consulting with ownership, determine the best course to bring baseball back to our fans.
6:23PM: As expected, the MLB Players Association has turned down the owners’ latest proposal for the 2020 season, ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan reports (Twitter link). No counter offer is coming, as MLBPA executive director Tony Clark indicated in a public statement that players will now turn their attention towards preparing for whatever type of regular season Commissioner Rob Manfred decides to impose.
The rest of Clark’s statement…
Players want to play. It’s who we are and what we do. Since March, the Association has made it clear that our No.1 focus is playing the fullest season possible, as soon as possible, as safely as possible. Players agreed to billions in monetary concessions as a means to that end, and in the face of repeated media leaks and misdirection we made additional proposals to inject new revenues into the industry — proposals that would benefit the owners, players, broadcast partners, and fans alike.
“It’s now become apparent that these efforts have fallen upon deaf ears. In recent days, owners have decried the supposed unprofitability of owning a baseball team and the Commissioner has repeatedly threatened to schedule a dramatically shortened season unless players agree to hundreds of millions in further concessions. Our response has been consistent that such concessions are unwarranted, would be fundamentally unfair to players, and that our sport deserves the fullest 2020 season possible. These remain our positions today, particularly in light of new reports regarding MLB’s national television rights — information we requested from the league weeks ago but were never provided.
As a result, it unfortunately appears that further dialogue with the league would be futile. It’s time to get back to work. Tell us when and where.
As definitive as Clark’s statement is, more last-second negotiations between the two sides can’t be entirely ruled out. (After all, the owners allegedly weren’t planning to make any further counters after an earlier offer in June, though the two sides continued to swap proposals after that so-called final offer.) Barring an eleventh-hour breakthrough, however, it appears as though there won’t be any agreement to begin the 2020 season under conditions that both the union and the league could at least tolerate, if not fully embrace. As such, Manfred can now make a unilateral decision about the length of the 2020 regular season, as was decided back in March in the initial agreement between Major League Baseball and the MLBPA about how to proceed in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.
The league’s most recent proposal offered the players a 72-game regular season and 70 percent of their prorated salaries, with the prorated salary number jumping to 83 percent if the postseason was completed in its entirety. While the offer contained several other details, it’s clear that the issue of prorated salary was the main sticking point, as the MLBPA has steadfastly maintained that they were owed their full share of prorated salaries, as per their interpretation of the now infamously vague March agreement. Owners, by contrast, have insisted that paying these full prorated salaries would create too much of a financial burden (over $4 billion in losses, by the league’s calculations) given that these games are expected to be played without any fans in attendance.
To say these negotiations haven’t gone smoothly is an understatement. There has been quite the public war of words between players, owners, and league and union officials in the last several weeks, ranging from social media barbs to controversial interviews to increasingly pointed communiques between the two sides. None of this back-and-forth has seemingly brought the league and players any closer to a deal, and has largely served only as a PR battle that has brought a ton of public criticism directed at both parties.
As per earlier offers from the league, Manfred could wind up imposing a regular season of roughly 50 games — reportedly all the owners can financially manage given the MLBPA’s insistence on full prorated salaries. According to The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal (Twitter link), the union wants to see the league’s plans for beginning the season by Monday, as per a letter from union negotiator Bruce Meyer to deputy commissioner Dan Halem.
Should the league’s plans indeed come so quickly, we could be on track for baseball’s return by roughly mid-July, factoring in time for players to ramp up their preparation in a “Spring Training 2.0” camp before beginning what will surely be the strangest season in baseball’s long history. Even beyond such details as the formats of the regular season and postseason, roster construction, transactions, etc., there is also the looming spectre of COVID-19, and how the league will implement health and safety procedures to best protect players, coaches, staff, and other involved parties.
Am I the only one that doesnt care about baseball coming back in 2020 at this point?
This has become a joke and both parties are to blame.
Yes, it has reached that point. The season is tainted beyond repair.
No, you are not the only one….there’s just so much, real, serious stuff going on right now, it would be nice to have the gift of baseball, to take our collective minds off things,but, I don’t see that happening any time soon…
This world is a pretty awful place, especially right now.
It’s unfortunate that baseball cant temporarily step up to brighten the day like they have before.
Man, this attitude is garbage. The story is simple. AFTER COVID became clear workers (players) made concessions to their employers (owners) to insure that their corporation (MLB) could continue. I have to stress, this agreement was negotiated AFTER the outbreak, with all the information we have today.
Then the employer was like “Nah, we dont make enough money. We’re gonna drag you and the thing we agreed to weeks ago.”
These are people who have a window of a few years to essentially make all their earnings at once. This is a 90/10 responsibility problem where the only fault on the players side is that Tony Clark is a clueless negotiator that believes ultimatums and brinksmanship are the best tactic, which ultimately gets the same result as regular neogiating, but creates emotional scarring.
The full story please. The MLBPA wasn’t going to get paid if the season didn’t start and in good faith an advance was worked out. No one expected the game not to be played by now and with no fans. Contracts were signed with expectations of money streams which now will not be there in full so owners want to share losses just like much of corporate America has done in one form or another. I still say ownership should truly open their books and the MLBPA should accept a floor and cap like other leagues.
Yeah, and those greedy owners still paying all their other hourly and salaried employees and keeping their benefits active even though they couldn’t work just continues to show they are how greedy they, wait a second….
Actually they are not. Many of the teams have forced their employees to take pay cuts.
This whole disagreement is clearly the Owners fault. 1)They made a Covid agreement with players already taking less pay that they now want to breach,2) They won’t open their books to actually see their profits or losses, 3)They never negotiated in earnest so to shorten the season that would play the players less.” Greed” has engulfed the owners spirits completely, I guess there is crying for baseball!
What was the concession? We agree not to be paid for games we won’t play?
Your pretty naive to think that MLB would go out of business unless the players gave concessions. MLB revenue was 10.7 billion in 2019. Majority of it comes from regional, & national tv deals. Yes tickets & merch & concession/parking sales play a solid part in the rev stream as well. But the bulk money comes from TV. MLB owners have NEVER opened up their books for union or anyone else.
All the MLB owners are either billionaires or groups of billionaire investors & or corporations. They arent going broke if they lose money on baseball this year.
So focus you anger on the owners who are trying to force a crap deal on players, just to ensure their 2020 profits.
I dont know about you, but I dont work for free, nor should anyone else.
Get real Dix and Teo. You invest money that could be earning $$ elsewhere based on projections that are not fully there today. They should open their books but contracts were signed based on total revenue streams.
You’re touching on an important point: The delays are intentional.
The bulk of revenue would come from TV and postseason broadcast coverage. Players receive a percentage of salary based on attendance. They don’t receive game checks for postseason play. That’s exactly why they’re so adamant about not playing regular season games beyond October. They couldn’t care less about player & public safety, it’s an excuse to restrict the number of regular season games played.
The longer MLB stalls, the fewer regular season games can be played and the less salary owners have to pay. This is all about maximizing profit at the expense of the players.
They certainly don’t care about the public getting as much baseball as possible, either.
To be clear, I meant that players receive a percentage of attendance revenue in the postseason (they don’t receive game checks in the postseason).
The bulk of players’ salaries are from regular season games.
In reply to Stevil, you are exactly right with no fluff. Let’s highlight the fact, though, that there is no other way to maximize profits in this industry without the highest paid employees taking pay cuts. The owners own the teams and can make whatever legal business decision they choose, and will, as you point out. It is their prerogative to make those business decisions and they don’t really owe us fans anything. If I was a billionaire I would also want to protect my assets and maximize profits.
I don’t know about you all… but watching a game with no fans in the stands is not very exciting. Remember that Baltimore Orioles game they played a few years ago with no fans? We will all watch a few of those games and then TV viewership will slowly decline… as will merchandise sales and other revenue sources.
Something I don’t understand, though, is why these stories don’t mention any type of revenue for stadiums that could have fans. Florida games typically meet the social distancing guidelines in a regular year already and they could have their fans show up, Pay all the TB and Miami players full pro-rated salaries! Ok yes I know that’s kind=of a joke, but don’t we expect some other red states to have fans too? I would think that changes the revenue projections.
Let me say one more thing….
This is a baseball site. Though the pandemic has directly affected the sport, too many commenters are getting off-topic with their social and political opinions.
There are plenty of other places for that. When too many fans here get out of line, the comments get shut off–and that’s exactly what’s going to happen in this thread if the off-topic crap doesn’t stop.
So, let me appeal to the respectful and rational commenters here: Flag the comments that are insulting and off-topic. With any luck, we’ll have good baseball conversation despite not having actual baseball.
Thank you
An billionaire complaining about pennies for a salary is worse than greedy
You happy now, Stevil? You whiny beeeetch. You got your wish.
Do you not realize that they’ll ban you and your IP’s from the site if you continue to talk trash?
If you’re actually interested in talking baseball, you should do just that and do it respectfully. Keep talking trash and you’ll be talking your way out of here.
You’re welcome.
You think I care?
I thought the same thought, but they need ALL ballparks to be able to allow some fans in. If so then they could let in maybe 10-25% of the fans and generate some revenue to satisfy everyone. Either way whatever games are played I will watch my Yankees. I am 73 and have been a fan through many changes and many downs times. I can endure.
You should care if you’re actually here for baseball.
They have made zero concessions. Manfred is an idiot for not just tearing up the CBA as he could have. The players are a bunch of spoiled brats who only care about money.
yea, except an equitable comparison is where a business’ lowest employee makes 520k. it’s probably more now. prob 560K (major league minimum)?
i know there’s tons of details but players are literally being cry-babies for being paid way too much lol. i dont really care how much the owners make, the things that baseball players are producing aren’t worth the money they’re being paid. at least garbage men clean up the society and fast food workers make your food and bring it to you. baseball players throw, run and hit a ball. not directly producing anything for you
Your phrasing of “with all the information that we have today,” seems to neglect the reality that data is collected daily and compiled, and analyzed as to what it likely means for what happened two weeks prior. Your comment lacks contextualized analysis of what’s going on and uses oversimplified generalizations.
I generally lean slightly more toward the labor side of things. It is mentally lazy to spout rhetoric that takes extremes and demonizes one side.
If you want to get a real idea of why the owners should never get one ounce of anything from the MLBPA, read “The Game: Inside the Secret World of Major League Baseball’s Power Brokers” by Jon Pessah.
The level of douchebaggery amongst baseball owners, and especially ones like Reinsdorf, makes for a very interesting read.
And don’t even get me started on Bud Selig. Whatever level of Hell you wanted him to rot in before reading this book, it will look like Paradise compared to where you want him to end up afterward.
I am amazed that Don Fehr is still alive given his frustrations in dealing with those clowns all those years.
And a quick note to Tony Clark…loved you in your playing days, and you are a good public face for the MLBPA…now please stay out of the negotiations, and let the big boys work their magic. Manfred isn’t half the commissioner Selig was (not exactly a high bar), so let the lawyers work their magic. Let the arbitrators look over everything, see that the owners have lied again, just like they do every single time it comes time to negotiate a new labor agreement, and you have nothing to fear.
The players will get what they want as long as you stay out of it.
Someone giving away someone else’s millions is pretty greedy too. How’d you like someone to give away two generations of your wealth just because you have more?
What the owners are really worried about is that the players in November will say “Oh no Covid might come back big time! We will not play in the playoffs! Too dangerous!’, they will use that excuse because no fans allowed at playoff games means no playoff revenue for players and they will screw the owners prior to next years strike. We may have baseball in 2022, but likley not before.
bkbk, Nobody forced these guys to choose a career with a short shelf life. To assert that they deserve a lifetime of pay for a few years work is out of touch with reality. They can, if they choose, move on to other endeavors after baseball. Pro-rated salaries have been rejected by the union. They want all their money even though they probably play less than half a season. That point is a slap in the face of every working person that got furloughed, hours cut, had their income severely affected. Baseball could have been a bright light in dark times, instead the players are making baseball just another Jerry Springer telecast.
Agreed. It’s also another illustration of how Unions (which started out with good intentions for improving the workers / players conditions) have gotten overly greedy and shot themselves in the foot long term. This from a UAW and former UFCW member.
When you start biting the hand that feeds you….not good. You also have to keep in mind too the ego of these agents and players. They have been worshiped since high school and have hyper inflated opinions of themselves and what they’ve accomplished.
Very narcissistic to be honest. You can’t negotiate with a players union that doesn’t want to negotiate in good faith.
Agree 100%
F MLB. Seriously.
+1
Well said.
Sadly same here. Sucks. And I had some stacked fantasy teams too
They will in mid July. Season will just be 50 games.
Main reason I care is selfish. I run a baseball podcast. It’s a heck of a lot easier to have writers block when there is no current events other than the negotiations
Then why are you here when you could be doing something productive?
I’m an Orioles fan so no big loss for me. Other than losing the development of the youngsters it was already gonna be a lost season
Yup, don’t care anymore. Selfish on all sides. Millions of Americans are unemployed or underemployed.
Whatever. Here is hoping the nba gets their playoffs in.
So long baseball.
What NBA? The league with no defense? Best playoff sport remains hockey. I just hope if there’s a baseball season, they don’t bring back the juiced ball to create artificial excitement. Bring back real baseball with solid pitching, good defense and strategies like hit and runs, sacrifices and trying to steal. With 2.5 hour games and the sport will be fine. After the first weekend, no one other than fantasy gamblers will watch 4+ hour games.
Exactly. All they do is run back and forth and lob threes. The NBA isn’t really a team sport anymore anyways. Just a bunch of tatted up knuckleheads running back and forth, running their mouths, lobbing threes and occasionally going one on one to the hole.
No passing, no structured offenses or defenses, no inside game, and certainly no talent. The NBA hasn’t been very good going on 20+ years. Since high school players started flooding the league the level of play has plummeted. The style of play has moved almost completely to one on one. There is no teamwork anymore. Teams from the 80’s and 90’s would destroy today’s dominant nba teams.
Why don’t they do a sliding scale.
Players that are at the top of the pay scale lose a higher percentage down to league min lose nothing. If the guys that are asst the top of the pay scale can’t live on the millions they make they need a financial planner and all credit cards taken away. It will be a bit harder for the league min but they still make more than 90% of us.
I truly feel sorry for the owners it might be harder to hide millions of dollars of they don’t have fans. How can they short count attendance and other things they do when they need to lose money? All these billionaire team owners cry poor so much it is ridiculous. It was sarcasm on feeling sorry for the owners. I wish I had their money problems.
That is literally what the MLB proposed – the sliding scale.
And the players responded with two middle fingers, as they should….
Yea because giving two middle finger will get us somewhere…..
why? you can’t possibly expect the owners to take a 40% loss. that’s ridiculous.
I agree, both sides to blame, BUT, one side more than another.
At its most basic, here’s the problem. We know from 2019 data mlb makes just north of $4 billion from fans in gameday revenue. Let’s acknowledge but not guess on sponsorship, tv rights, and other revenue sources that might get prorated for games not played could be an issue.
Ok, now we know 2020 salaries excluding payroll taxes were also just over $4 billion.
On its face, it appears in a normal season gameday revenue pays over 90% of player payroll expenses, and, other revenue streams pay everyone and everything else.
MLBPA is telling owners they are to be paid in full for each game played, even though the revenue isn’t there, and completely ignores other potential revenue stream losses.
But WHERE does all that demanded revenue come from? You need to either make enough “profit” in a season to cover your team’s entire prorated payroll, or, manage to cut from somewhere else. I seriously doubt many, if any, ballclub had profit = player payroll in 2019. But thats what the union position demands.
This sums up my feelings as well. The owners aren’t blameless obviously, but the narrative that the owners should simply empty their pockets because they’re rich is tired and lazy.
When you would actually lay out the relevant facts, it paints MLBPA in a worse light. Were some of the early proposals from MLB garbage? Absolutely. But I think prorated salaries in the 70-80% range isn’t far off from what the reality should be, and it certainly represents an offer worthy of being countered. The fact that MLBPA won’t even do that is a very bad look.
None of your numbers are accurate. If they were, owners would open their books and show actual damages. Instead, they are telling MLBPA to just take their word.
Source? You are just making blind blanket statements. How do you know that the owners haven’t shared any financial details with the players union? Do you REALLY think the players union doesn’t know the revenue streams, numbers, etc. of the owners? COMEONNNNN
The Athletic reported that the owners provided some documentation but the players said that it was so heavily redacted that they could not make any sense of it and had no way to verify claims that they were losing money. let the arbitrator sort that out.
Agreed! Cman is wrong! The owners don’t want the players to see how much money they’re been making all these years before COVID-19. Look at the values of each team and how much they have risen over the last 10 years. These teams are now worth Billions when they were hundreds of millions.
How do you know? That’s right you don’t. The owners on average make 40% of their revenues from ticket sales, concessions and parking. So what you are saying is they are lying because they don’t open their books FOR YOU?
Yeah okay.
which teams are worth billions? and how do you know?
That’s right you don’t. You don’t have the slightest idea what you are talking about and are just blowing smoke. Just because a team is worth 100’s of millions of dollars in value doesn’t mean they have that much in annual operating capital / revenue.
If that were true the Dodgers could have operated for YEARS without any money coming, but low and behold they declared BANKRUPTCY IN 2011! Now how can that happen when a team is worth billions as you put it and is supposedly just rolling in unlimited money? hmmmm….
How do you know that 40% revenue is from Tickets, Concessions? Thats right you picked that number out of a hat? We will never know till some of these teams open their books. Yes i believe the owners are outright lying about their profits!
Whose askin you knucklehead
Your numbers are generally correct as far as we know.
Forbes shows gate receipts as $3.2B and “other stadium revenue” as $925M.
Player salaries are $4.22B based on Forbes and all the representations made through these negotiations. So the two numbers are close to even.
But that doesn’t mean that A pays for B and C pays for everything else.
There is $5.3 billion in TV revenues, of which $775M is for the post season.
We don’t know what percentage of that revenue will still come in because the owners are not providing the information. Worst case, it’s prorated, which means that TV revenues would still fully pay for fully prorated player salaries, with $1.1 billion to spare, and another $1.1B in sponsorships still mostly coming in (naming rights for stadiums is the biggest chunk of that).
And there are other costs, some of which are dependent on games being played and some which disappear completely this season, such as scouting and player development for the most part. Each team has different numbers.
And there is debt service. Something not in the EBITDA calculus. But it’s real and it’s a big concern of many owners from a cash flow view.
And the TV revenues are certainly not all dependent on games being played. Two thirds of MLB teams have an ownership stake in their RSN, and those networks get 90% of their revenues from subscriber fees rather than advertising, so they’re not taking a direct loss as a result of games being reduced. So the revenue from that source- while it’s all over the map in 30 different contracts- is going to be more like 75% than straight prorated per game.
$700 million from ESPN, $325 million from Turner, $525 million from Fox- some dependent on post season, but most of it not. We don’t know whether MLB has to refund any of that. They could fold any issues with ESPN into their new contract which they’re in talks over right now.
So it’s not clear at all that teams are losing money by playing more regular season games. Even if we are left in the dark, the players should not be if they’re being asked to give up millions of dollars in negotiated salaries. Regardless of what you or I think is “fair” or “reasonable’, those terms don’t matter in this case. If the owners are going to claim losses, they MUST open the books to prove it.
Anyway, whether you blame the owners or the players, there’s plenty to go around. It’s just a matter of degree who is more at fault. I just hope they sort it out without a strike or lockout in 2022. I fear they won’t.
An excellent and evenhanded analysis of this situation. Baseball is a business and nobody guarantees profits in business. Many businesses are suffering now, not just baseball, and many of them will be altered forever, assuming they even survive the pandemic. And yet I don’t see a lot of them treating their employees with hostility, because they want to be able to resume business as usual when the economic climate returns to normalcy as we know it will some day, and they will need employees for that who feel like they’ve been treated fairly. MLB doesn’t seem to care about that, at all. Astonishing.
I share your fear that this impasse is not a one-time event but is only the beginning a very bad phase for baseball that will alienate fans and erode their business. The course taken by MLB is going to cause deep and lasting damage to the game. We’ve seen it all before.
GREED
You are not the only one. I love baseball and was very excited about the Braves’ season. I’d rather have no season than this garbage. I almost feel sorry for the fans of whatever team wins the “World Series” this year–whatever that means. I’m actually hoping my team doesn’t win it all. I don’t want to be forced to reconcile my feelings about it happening in an otherwise meaningless year.
The winner will be remembered more this year than in most other years. The years that ended long, well publicized droughts, like ’04 and ’16 are remembered, but the rest tend to blend together. Everyone will know who won the world series during the pandemic, when they only played 50 games in the regular season.
This was never going to be more than a joke season anyway. The real story here is 2021 and beyond, and the likelihood of a repeat of the 1990s, the darkest time in baseball history when the game could only be “saved” by condoning cheating. Baseball as we knew it is done.
These clowns have had 3 months to work out a deal, but they procrastinated as usual. That’s the thing that really gets me. They could have come up with plans for Scenario A, Scenario B, Scenario C months ago.. And I have to wonder if the owners are intentionally dragging this out so there will be a smaller window for regular season games, which is exactly what they want … fewer games.
It came down to this because it isn’t about 2020, it’s about 2021 and beyond. The players know they are seeing a steadily diminishing share of the game’s revenue and ownership is determined to keep it that way. Irreconcilable.
Well there go your fans
A season will happen it will just be 50 games.
Do you truly think 50 games constitutes as a season?
This year? Yes.
So if we get this 50 game season how will the schedule look? Only play games within your own division? Will all the teams play in their own stadium, or will everyone play in the spring training stadiums to lessen travel?
given the situation, beggars cant be choosers
Look, I want something resembling a season as much as the next guy, but 50 games after this seems forced. I truly feel bad for whoever would win the World Series this year. It’s still an amazing accomplishment but sustaining success over 50 opposed to 162 games is vastly different.
why not a five game season?
and instead of playoffs, have a home run derby and call it a year.
they can if they are privileged beggars who expect a certain standard.
don’t laugh, some beggars come from less humble beginnings then others
“feel bad?” to suggest that someone who wins the WS would feel bad instead of simply a tad less excited? World Series is still the World Series, and it should mean more than 2017 and 2018 did for sure.
I think we agree to an extent? I feel bad because it will still be seen as a WS but the fact that it was over under half the games as normal will have an asterisk for a lot of people. Especially because of how this all played out publicly.
12 games against each team in your division equals a 48 game schedule.
Not really Ortsacnilrats. A long regular season separates the more talented and deep teams from the below average teams. With a shorter season it would be harder to win the World Series. Kinda more exciting for a larger fan base. Hell, even the Orioles and Marlins have a chance. I say bring it on.
I’m also burning with optimism’s flame.
DarkSide830. I agree.
A World Series with an asterisk? Just ask the Astros and their fans how that feels. According to them, there is no asterisk and even if their was it wouldn’t matter at all. So no worries. This title will mean at least as much, if not more than the Stros imaginary title does.
To quote the Stone Temple Pilots, “ moderation is masturbation”….
I’d take 80 games. 50 is ridiculous.
so the nba is back, nhl is back, mls is back, so what the hold up with the mlb? it kind of makes them look bad if they cant figure out a way to play
Hold your horses with the nba.. the players are starting to question if they feel comfortable coming back being only in Orlando.. we might see a pause with them.. crazy times!
NBA. Who cares.
Right, plus the NBA and NHL were almost done with their respective seasons when the stoppage happened. So the one issue isn’t close to what MLB is dealing with.
Kyrie Irving is really the issue. Most other players are asking questions but want to play. I find it funny that Kyrie won’t even play as he’s hurt
Hey man, covid might be more contagious on his flat earth than our round one. Don’t ignore all the facts in someone’s decision, it’s uneducated. We have no idea how things work on his planet…be respectful
LOL,. In a sea of terrible takes, this one is the worst.
NBA is coming back and if some don’t want to, that only makes it easier on Lebron
Maybe they realize people are still dying from the virus!!
Numbers aren’t any different than any other year.
The NBA is not even planned to come back until July 30th and it’s basically just for a handful of regular season games and the playoffs. If baseball came back on July 30th, it’d be less than half a season. They’re completely different situations.
MLB is also different because they don’t have a salary cap. This changes the scenario a bit.
As a Red Sox fan, I’m a bit selfish. Yes, I’m upset we lose baseball but we weren’t going to win this year and we easily win the Betts trade.
But the luxury tax threshold won’t reset if there is no season, so the Sox don’t completely win the trade.
Come on baseball. Every other league has found a way. Come on man.
Yes, they’ve royally effed up, but to be fair, the other leagues seasons were almost finished. The NHL canceled the remaining season games and the NBA is having issues now in their “bubble” plan.
The NHL and NBA have already played most of their seasons. They’re talking about (still not there yet) coming back in a month and a half for a small number of games.
Baseball would be 30 teams playing 60-80 games each plus playoffs for a season that hasn’t even started. The situations bare absolutely no resemblance aside from the fact that they’re all sports leagues.
The owners act as if with their agreement, they didn’t know that there was a possibility of some fanless games. They need to provide a higher percentage. The MLBPA should come back at 82 games and 90 percent. After the owners turn that down, keep the number of games but add a provision for another 15% of salary deferral.
The owners made a “final” proposal, but are upset with no counter, what’s up with that?
Screw both sides. They’ve had ample time to meet in the middle and they’re both being disgustingly selfish.
If Ron Swanson was the mediator, this disagreement would have been solved months ago with the Swanson Family moonshine drink off
The players already made one concession, while the owners have tried to extract more money out of them, but sure both sides are selfish
I’m not sure that entirely true. Do players get paid in the offseason? My understanding is they get game checks during the season and that is it. Last I knew they were getting paid some reduced amount during the shutdown even though they’re not playing. Seems like the owners could have just said, seasons canceled, you don’t get paid, have a nice day.
Please share. What single concession did players make?
Well a 1 Billion TV deal announcement didn’t exactly help!
I thought the exact same thing.
That’s not official yet and when it is, it doesn’t even start until 2022.
doesn’t matter when it starts….hard to claim poverty by owners when they’re signing Billion dollar deals the players won’t receive a penny of!…..
^ This. Even if it doesn’t start for 2 years. And even if it’s spread out over 4-5 years. It doesn’t matter. All of that goes directly back to the owner. And yes, some of that, if it’s an aggressive owner, will funnel back to the player but for the most case will go directly into the owners pocket.
It was the players who didn’t want a revenue split….
That was a revenue split for this year only, right?
Mostly because they don’t trust the owners one single percent to deliver a legitimate accounting of all revenues to be split. Secondarily because they believe revenue sharing to be a de facto salary cap and their position is that they will never concede to a salary cap, and especially one that was not negotiated into a CBA. No union would ever give away something as important as that without major concessions from the other side, and the owners haven’t conceded a single thing in this “negotiation” over the 2020 season. NOTHING. Name me one thing that the owners have conceded to the players while continuing to ask for more salary relief. Something. Anything.
Has either side conceded anything though? Again, we all want the same thing but at this point both sides are at fault.
yea it’s ok for a business owner to lose millions, in your world..
Not just a couple million like 10’s of millions. It’s easy to side with player and say ohhhhh those dirty nasty evil owners, but when 50% of your revenus are eliminated along with half the games and the players still want their pro-rated salaries in full…….well that’s not gonna fly
It only works out to about 4 more million a year, per team from what already get now.
In the words of “Dandy Don” Merideth….Turn our the lights, the party’s over…..
*out
@told2care
No need to correct
I am just impressed that you remember Dandy Don and his quote
My first thought of Dandy Don was from the King of the Hill episode
Amen brother. It’s over. RIP 1869-2019
yeah that’s just unreasonably dramatic
Tony Clark says its time to get back to work. Yet he rejected the proposal. That makes no sense. Manfred needs to man up right now and start the mfing season override everything and maybe it 72 games. 80% prorated
With no new deal, players must be paid full pro rata salary. so they can’t do 80%.
They deserve 100% the owners signed off on it. Even if it’s back paid. Pay the players. 75% for this year maybe an extra 5% for the next 5 years.
Just play baseball.
No, that’s not true. The agreement in March literally stated that the agreement is contingent upon there being no restrictions on fans attending games.
If baseball came back, there would certainly be restrictions on fans attending the games, and thus, there was no “agreement” in March.
I can’t believe it, but I’m siding with the Owners on this. Bring on replacement players, and screw the MLBPA.
No, not contingent. That language is not there.
It said that the two sides would discuss the economic feasibility of playing games with no fans. The owners refuse to produce any documentation to support their claims of huge losses- which the players have good reason to think are bogus.
Replacement players lol. Good lord.
Yes it is. All you have to do is open your mind and read. Regardless, the owners aren’t negotiating at all
‘Replacement players’? You cannot be serious. First, good luck finding players willing to cross a virtual picket line like that. Second, good luck finding owners stupid enough to alienate their players like that. Third, good luck finding enough people to care about what would be essentially AA games.
If they brought in replacement players, you may as well bring them back for 2021 as well because the normal players would strike immediately.
I also am siding with the owners. There are not going to be any fans at the games. That is a massive loss of revenues. The reasons these players, who live in an alternate universe, are turning down every offer is that to accept is, in their opinion, the first step towards a salary cap which they do not want. Every other pro league has a form of a salary cap. In Baseball, the lack of a salray cap means that for the most part the big city teams have the best players. If a small market team gets good playesr they lose them when they become free agents. I hope they have no season and then go to war with the players union for a salary cap during the next bargaining period.
Fine by me.
Agreed
@Patrick OKennedy-
How are we concluding that the owners claims of huge losses are bogus? I think its pretty reasonable.
They get revenue from broadcasting their games and from fans attending their games. Playing without fans means a large chunk of revenue won’t be coming in, but the players want full pay as though all revenue streams are coming in.
So the league & owners are saying, Ok-with limited revenue, we can only afford to pay 30% of your pay (over a full season of games) – or 100% of your pay but only over a 50-game season.
not sure if you know what negotiate means. the owners have made new proposals
100 percent spot on. Rising salaries have created a financial gap to the point of severe parity loss. the game is literally imploding. From owners not being able to pay minor Leaguers a larger salary, to ticket prices and consessions being incredibly expensive for the normal man.
yet many out here support the players escalating salaries regardless of it’s effects on us, the fans.
It’s rather simple.
The game must decide between parity between teams and players getting paid.
פשוט as that.
agree
The owners claimed that they would lose $4 billion without fans in an 82 game season. That claim has been dissected by several media outlets.
Two passages from the MLBPA letter stand out to me regarding how they view the negotiations: This is from the Athletic.
“Your own self-serving slide presentation showed that the league as a whole will lose significantly less money playing a season than not playing a season, and Rob admitted this in response to a direct question,” Meyer wrote. “With respect to other assertions in the presentation, we found it incomplete, unclear and unpersuasive and requested information that would allow us to verify it. Your eventual response was completely inadequate.”
I think there is a mindset among players that they have never been able to share in the riches of soaring revenues over the past decade or more, so they’re not now going to tie their negotiated salaries to revenues for the first time in MLB history.
Many folks think that’s unreasonable, or bad faith. While I see a lot of disingenuous crap flying in both directions here, I see the players’ position as legally correct. The owners know this, which is why any shortened season will be at full prorated salaries.
I also have no doubt that the players will pay a hefty price in salary negotiations following this episode.
Salaries have decreased the past two seasons in total, and player salaries have not nearly kept pace with increasing revenues for MLB.
Also don’t forget the disparity amongst owners. Some are asset rich but cash poor like buying a big house with a large mortgage. Equity is there but they struggle to pay the bills each month. Of course this is simplistic and perhaps an exaggeration but the truth is not every owner runs their team as a hobby and willing to accept either a loss or less of a rate of return than they expect.
It really isn’t all that surprising considering how bad MLBPA has been under Clark’s “leadership”.
This pandemic has only taken that awfulness to a whole new level not thought possible previously,
“Never been able to share in the riches…” Wow. A $400 million contract is nothing I guess. WalMart is a multi billion dollar company, do they have profit sharing? Do their managers and regional directors get to split half of the company profits? No? Why would that be? Because maybe the owners payed billions for their business. Why should they do that if their employees get their profits? I would love to see ARod buy the Mets! How many people think he would open the books and share all the profits with the players? Is Jeter doing that? I am sure he insisted on profit sharing when he was a player, but now that he is an owner…
A league of their own
DP Smith nails it. The fans (us) is where our focus should be. Yet the Patrick O’ who cares brings up figures without any knowledge or breakdown of the miscellaneous costs owners, not players, have to consider. Some teams have more money tied to more scouting, others in extra coaches on staff, even some teams have had more minor league affiliates than others.
For the people hating on any defense of the owners, here’s a rebuttal: if you side with the players you side with the destruction of the sport of baseball. Two can play that game. We should be more concerned over the fans, the affordability of games with the family and how we can help pass the game on to the next generation. Players and owners clearly haven’t done that with the age median of baseball fan being as high as it is.
wild bill- I don’t claim to have knowledge of all operating expenses of each team. Nor do the players, and that’s the big problem here.
We do know from Forbes reports that MLB gets $5.3 million in media revenues per season, plus $1.1 billion in sponsorships. $787 million of that TV revenue is tied to the post season. Player salaries total $4.22 billion per season. In any equation, the prorated salaries per game are much less than prorated revenues from TV and media rights. So the players are rightly suspicious of MLB claims that they lose money per game.
I am not thrilled with the players here, either. They could have made an offer to keep discussions alive, but they went straight for the terminal solution. The union- not necessarily the players themselves- want the discovery that goes with a greivance.
And I don’t like the way they threw amateur players and minor leaguers under the bus, allowing MLB to wipe out baseball in 42 cities, and eliminate 35 rounds of the draft, along with signing bonuses that are the only decent money those players will ever get from baseball. “Not our members, not our problem”. There is plenty of crap flying in both directions here, and the fans are like the kids stuck in the middle of a nasty divorce.
So the players are getting $4.22 billion out of a total revenue of $6.4 billion total? They are taking home more money than their business owners are? That is bothersome. That $2.2 billion also has to pay minor league player salaries, coaches, scouts, front office and team’s myriad lawyers, doctors(I doubt players pay for their own Tommy John surgery), insurance(titanic costs!), advertising, etc., etc… There are a whole lot more costs to running a business than just the highly visible employees. There are normally 2 to 4 times as many people behind the scenes who make things happen. Not looking so good for the owners now is it?
The players have good reason to believe there are huge revenue losses with no fans?
Is it brain damage?
$4.22 billion is the full amount for 40 players for the full season.
It would be prorated for the number of games played. So, if they play 72 games, total salaries would be $1.875 billion, or 44%.
There are other operating expenses, the largest ones being player development costs, and those vary widely from club to club. Because the minor league season has been canceled, this cost will be dramatically reduced for all clubs.
There are also front office salaries, utilities, supplies, telecomm, etc. Those costs are fixed and won’t change with more games being played.
Whether the owners are losing money for the season is one issue. Whether they are losing money for each extra game played is what they are claiming when they shorten the season.
And there are variable costs such as travel, stadium operations, extra personnel for games, that increase per game. These costs are all lower this year than others, but there is still a cost per game.
The owners have not provided documentation to show that playing more games is not economically feasible. This will be the subject of any grievances.
I’ve written an article that suggests the two sides not go the grievance route, and step up and do what’s best for the game and their fans, while actually increasing revenue, paying the players prorated salaries, having expanded playoffs. They have the time and the money to do it.
Teams are going to lose money. It’s pretty hard to chop 40% of revenue for gate receipts and concessions off the top and still turn a profit, even if some operating expenses are eliminated. And you can argue that the players are negotiating in bad faith, or it’s not fair, or not reasonable, but that’s not where we are. There is nothing in the CBA or the March agreement that REQUIRES the players to agree to salary cuts, or the owners to extend the season.
Part of the dynamic here is that Tony Clark got his arse kicked by Manfred in the last two rounds of CBA talks, and the union- not necessarily the players- wants the discovery that goes with a grievance to set them up for the next round of CBA bargaining. Of course I can’t prove that, but I just don’t see pitchers and second basemen saying “go Tony, get us that discovery!”
blessyouboys.com/2020/6/15/21291093/mlb-owners-cou…
Agree, mostly. The only point where I’d differ is with the characterization of Clark. To suggest he doesn’t represent the interests of the players in these matters is no different than saying Manfred does’t represent the owners. Since these are their respective jobs and they’ve kept them for many years I would have to conclude that they are representing those interests at least fairly well.
It is certainly true that the MLBPA got the fuzzy end with the last CBA at least, probably a lot worse of a deal than either side expected frankly. Even if we assume the players are dumb jocks who don’t comprehend such things (though I bet most of them actually do) they will have agents who certainly do understand the intricacies of finance, and a union that does too.
Either way it isn’t a leap of logic to assume this is more about 2021 and beyond than it is about this season, which effectively is already a goner. Both sides are drawing their lines in the sand for what is coming next. I believe the smart money is on a repeat of the 1994-95 catastrophe. If they can salvage a peaceful and productive CBA negotiation next year out of this donnybrook, then it will be a miracle right up there with turning water into wine.
You understand that Manfred can’t do that right? The only thing MLB is allowed to do is initiate a season that’s about one quarter of a season with 100% pro-rated salaries (I.E. players will play 41 games (or about) and get paid 25% of their 2020 contracts now).
And I’ll add that this was a forgone conclusion after MLB’s last request which essentially paid the players the same amount as they will get now but had to play 30 more games.
The latest proposal had the same guaranteed money over more games, but with a playoff bonus of ~$200m. It was more money than the 48 game backup, especially considering the playoffs are highly likely to complete. It’s their right to insist on full pro rata, but they’re taking a pay cut for it.
Manfred is required by the March agreement to propose a schedule for “as many games as possible”. He could roll out a 100 game schedule, or a 50 game schedule, but the salaries would be prorated.
He can’t implement 100 games. The owners rejections of the players proposals have been in part due to a refusal to play games into November. Their insistence is/was everything needs to be wrapped up by Nov 1. If Manfred books 100 games, they’re playing past Nov. 1. IMO, the owners haven’t bargained in good faith anyway. That’d be a clear breach of good faith negotiations, however.
I don’t know how “as many games as possible” should be interpreted. The players proposed 114 games with a December world series. I thought this was clearly an “F- U” to the owners for proposing the sliding scale. But if you take the phrase literally, why not even more? They could pull double headers with an expanded roster and get to 162.
Does the language assume that playing extra regular season games is financially viable?
What about double headers?
MLB had them regularly for a century – and that was without a 30 man roster.
Start season July 11th. Each team plays 7 games per week with a doubleheader and a day off each week.
Thats 84 games by October 1st
Owners must schedule as many games as they can safely.
And owners expenses are reduced by playing multiple games in one day
Why aren’t they talking about this
Yes, but playing double headers for 3 months and rescheduling the playoffs are clearly a financial disaster for MLB. I doubt that language will be interpreted literally.
According to several MLB owners, *EVERY* season is a financial disaster, and owners only own teams for the prestige of owning a major sports franchise and the expectation of selling the team at some point in the future for a significant profit,
No he isn’t because the players never negotiated in good faith, they have already failed to comply with the March proposal.
lol no way the mlbpa, who nixed double headers in the first place, would ever agree to that.
yea heaven forbid a business owner attempt to make a profit
Yes. That offer was posturing, and intended to draw the owners into the reality of where the players stood.
As many games as possible will be the clause that is the subject of grievances, and it centers on economic feasibility.
I was speaking theoretically in response to the comment
“The only thing MLB is allowed to do is initiate a season that’s about one quarter of a season”
Manfred is not restricted in the number of games he can unilaterally implement.
In fact the same March agreement states
“The sides will discuss “the possibility of playing a reasonable number of regular season games beyond the initially scheduled end of the regular season”
Just as the players are not required to agree to further salary cuts with no fans, the owners are not required to agree to extend the season past Sept 27. But they can.
Their response on double headers were that they were unsafe for players because they’re staying together for so long, and that the RSN’s don’t get value from two games in a day.
The players obviously want some double headers because it means more games and more pay. They could also help solve an issue of how to get ESPN more games that they need to make up. They contracted for about 100 games per season, and when they broadcast games, the RSN usually doesn’t. So if they’re games that would otherwise not be played, they don’t impact the RSN’s.
As if either owners or players cared enough to make it happen. Not. Both sides should be ashamed.
This needs to be worked out soon. If not, the game will suffer big and both, players and owners will lose.
Good luck and I really hope to see some type of games this year.
I’m finding it hard to care. Both sides arguing over money while alienating their fans. soon they’ll have no money to argue over. too bad cyz the brewers were probably gonna win a ship this year against the mariners
Brewers vs the Mariners for the ship…I like the cut of your jib (although I completely diasgree).
Start over MLB. Sheet can this thing from the ground up.
if theres no counter offer theres no way to agree to a deal. This clown refuses to do what will need to happen in order to have the game any time before 2027 or so
If there is no counteroffer, the March 26 deal stands: prorated salaries with Manfred setting a schedule “using best efforts to play as many games as possible.” where an arbitrator will probably have to decide a grievance over that language in the March deal if Manfred tries to impose a 50 game season.
Which in turn will take time and they will end up only being able to squeeze 50 games in anyhow. Such a joke.
The season will be over by the time a grievance is heard.
Rob Manfred needs to resign. He has proven to be incapable of leading a sport and somehow sunk far below Rodger Goodell and Gary Bettman.
what do you expect from a selig clone?
You do realize who Manfred works for, right? He works for the owners. He does whatever the owners want him to.
Drinking beer at a bonfire. Gonna adopt the three legged cat! Can’t wait for The Last Of Us 2, downloading now.
As embarrassing as it is to be an Orioles fan sometimes, I’m more embarrassed to be a fan of the mlb right now. Baseball had a chance to help heal this nation. Both parties couldn’t let go of their huge egos. Pathetic
Time to fire Tony Clark. Ineffective and inexperienced is a bad combination for someone with a key leadership role in a multi billion dollar industry. He seems unable to comprehend contract language or didn’t bother reading details before signing off on March agreement.
The union is relying upon the “using best efforts to play as many games as possible.” language to prevent the owners form imposing a short season. It belies the plain meaning of those words for MLB to offer season of 70 or 80 games and turn around and say that their best efforts means a 50 games season. That language does not say anything about money. If it would be so financially crippling to have an 85 game season with no or few fans in the stands that it would not be “possible,” to use the word in the deal, then the owners are going to have to prove that to an arbitrator by opening their books.
Agreed
The owners can only, legally, reduce the number of games based on safety.
How can they offer 72 games and then suddenly say its not safe to play more than 50?
I believe the best efforts clause also includes the economic feasibility w/o fans language. So the grievance will not be a slam dunk for the players. But it may hinge on how much financial data the owners are willing to parent to the arbitrator to defend the grievance. And the burden of proof will be on the union, as the grieving party.
The owners and players couldn’t reconcile “as many games as possible” with a good faith discussion if no fans will be in attendance so it goes to the default option: Manfred can impose a season of not less than 40 games.
This is the operative clause:
“MLB will propose a schedule “using best efforts to play as many games as possible, while taking into account player safety and health, rescheduling needs, competitive considerations, stadium availability, and the economic feasibility of various alternatives.”
MLB has made numerous comments publicly and in letters about how a longer season at full prorated salaries is not economically feasible. Once they have gone there, the arbitrator will require them to open up their documents to back up their claims. The scope of the documents will be a huge fight.
MLB’s counter-argument will be that the MLBPA breached first, by not negotiating in good faith, and that excuses MLB’s best efforts obligation. But your point is valid, any litigated claim arising out of this fiasco will be lengthy and protracted, and it’s doubtful those claims would be resolved before the new CBA is concluded. Likely any claims would be rolled into those negotiations and dealt with in the new CBA, ensuring, once and for all, in the words of Neville Chamberlain, peace for our time.
I actually now believe that the union doesn’t want a deal or to play this year. I think all there doing is posturing for the next CBA negotiations. If the owners invoke the clause to pick a season length to get season going…. the players simply won’t show up. The excuse will be “health reasons”. They have no intentions on playing.
The players are going to show up, read the last sentence of the response.
So I guess your under the impression that everything out of Tony Clark’s mouth is the truth. Lol. I have a wonderful bridge I’d like to sell you.
I’m pretty sure Tony Clark is too dumb to convincingly lie about anything.
Season’s finished, and this is only going to cause an inevitable lockout in 2022 at this point. There’s no way the product lives up to expectations in 2021 if everyone’s had what will effectively be a full year away from competitive baseball and proper training.
Trades that were made in the offseason with the expectation of playing baseball in 2020 (Mookie) will need to be sorted out somehow. Are those trades effectively void if the season is canceled? Do the players not accrue service time and therefore not reach FA this coming winter if no season is played? Players that would be free agents, and the union, will never go for that, and teams that made trades for rental players like LA will never go for giving up the assets they traded to get absolutely nothing in return.
I wouldn’t be surprised if those sticking points cancel next season, too, via lockout and we go into 2022 with a new CBA or no baseball again.
“LA will never go for giving up the assets they traded to get absolutely nothing in return.”
We wont have a choice, that trades locked in as it should be. Verdugo will not go back to LAD – Best we can hope for is an extra comp pick back
Dude, what’s up with all of your silly questions?!? They’ve sorted all the FA and service time stuff out like 2 months ago…..
So we’re just going to default to a scenario where everyone loses. Makes a lotta sense. Good luck to all parties in paying your bills with “principles”.
There will be baseball – if they have to, Manfred will invoke the 48 game schedule at full pro-rated salary as they have the right to do. The players union previously had a guy who got along very well with the owners and they miss him. Think his last name was Wiener. Nothing against Tony Clark, but there needs to be in-person dialogue, a relationship needs to be forged, for the parties to come together. In the end, the owners have the upper hand and can unilaterally issue it and if the players refuse they will be considered striking and that’s against the rules in the CBA. They wouldn’t get paid. That’s not gonna happen. I want baseball, but a 48 game schedule would be a joke. Talk about small sample size…
Baseball has stabbed itself in the throat. I have loved watching for decades but both sides are sickening, disheartening and care nothing about the damage they’ve already done.
My only wish is that this could last for years and both players, owners and the league would all have to take up real careers and other interests and always remember, “damn, maybe I should have just agreed to play games”
Also, I’m sick of people telling me (and people like me who are also frustrated) that if I don’t support the players 110% or that if I indicate I don’t care if the season doesn’t even happen, that I’m not a real fan.
Those people tend to not use their brains in general. All they do is look at the richest of folks and say “screw them” 100% of the time without bothering to consider facts or circumstances. Laziness, bias, jealously…call it whatever you want.
Anyone actually using their brains in this situation realizes that while the owners are not blameless here, MLBPA has been equally bad, if not worse.
So what’s the default answer based on the CBA? Players get paid based on the % of games they play? I really don’t know, but it just seems like gamesmanship on both sides. MLB owners and players are killing the league. It’s been happening, this is just going to be another nail in the coffin.
No deal that MLB has offered is as good for the players as the one Manfred can impose.
Why would the players accept any of them?
They should just do the 48 game schedule and be done with it if they can’t top that “offer”.
The guarantee in the last proposal is about the same as 48 games (~$1.2B). But it included a 15-20% increase in pay if the playoffs are completed, which amounted to about $200m. If they do the 48 game schedule, the players just get the pro rated pay without the additional bonus. It seems like the players are foregoing the extra pay (which seems very likely to happen) for the principle of sending a message to the owners.
the players would have gotten roughly the same salary, but have had to play something like 25 more games. that 15-20% needs to be weighed against the extra games before declaring it a raise. idk about you but id rather do less work at a higher rate of pay.
Yeah that’s for the players to decide. To me, playing 50% more games for 20% more money seems worthwhile considering the short lifespan and high pay of a major league career. Consider an extreme example, you’d prefer 100 games at 95% salary to 10 games at 100%.
But really, my point is that players could easily negotiate higher %s within this framework but they insist on full pro rata on principle.
for 5 million dollars?Absolutely
They’ll also have to work less, be quarantined less, and risk less. You can’t discount that.
More to your point though, this is about much more than this season. It’s important the players stand their ground. I mean contracts were signed. I don’t understand why the players would take less for a chance at a postseason completion bonus. Plus, who’s making that decision- Manfred, who works for the owners.
Right, the players can consider it not worth the risk and hassle. But I don’t agree with the claim that it’s the same amount of money for more games.
Correct. 57 games at full prorated salaries would be the same pay as the owners’ last offer if the playoffs were completed. So that’s basically 15 games and another round of playoffs for no extra salary.
So the players lose money, and the owners also lose by not having the extended playoffs, which USA today says is worth around $113 million per season. Out goes the baby with the bath water.
My understanding is that 57 games at full pro rated isn’t on the table though, 48 games is. 57 games of pay for 72 games may not be worth it to players and that’s for them to decide, but it is objectively more money! My frustration is that players and commenters keep claiming (or implying) that there is not financial upside vs. 48 games. Further negotiation within this framework would lead to a better deal for the players, but they’ve decided to stop negotiations on principle of receiving 100% pro rata.
Now the players look petty! This is probably going to an arbitrator.
Victims vs Victims vs Victim
Hmmm…..wonder how much of my mlb .tv premium streaming package payment is going to be reimbursed?
Seriously!!!
Probably none of it. Since they renew automatically and they love taking our money
I called and cancelled. They refunded my credit card in late March.
Always use PayPal to pay for MLB.tv. They will likely issue a refund even for unsatisfactory service, and certainly for no product at all. Doesn’t matter if MLB.tv refuses, just initiate the refund process through PayPal.
I refuse to use PayPal, for personal reasons. I guess if mlb refuses to reimburse, then I can look into starting a class action suit against them. I did something similar against them once before. Got a positive response/change within a week on that one.
Ha! I’ve thought the same thing.
But we all know the answer…
Focus on hockey. Baseball is done
June 6: no counter proposal planned.
june 13: after 5 more proposals no more planned
F**k the owners, F**k Manfred, and matter of fact F**k the players too…. this has been as ridiculous as it gets.
Millions of kids have needed baseball BADLY. And Everyone In the industry f**ked this up.
Yep.
I’m done. 58 years is enough. So long, fellow fans.
Dead baseball
Boycott
Stupid everyone
Tony Clark putting words in owners mouth. Not very profitable doesn’t equal unprofitable. Sly move. When teams are worth billions and profits are reportedly 50 million average per team prior to taxes etc. ROI sucks. Most probably invest due to ever increasing values of sports teams and represent long term value to investors that might treat annual profits as dividend. That was before COVID-19. Imagine the implication long term and insecurity it represents the owners. Hard impact means hundreds of million in potential losses long term while we are getting the effects of short term. Then players haggle.
MLB teams are worth billions, and are not really toys. People go bankrupt after winning millions in lotto, often “lending” money to family/friends whom have zero interest in repayment. Throwing away money adds up, and hardships can cripple financially irresponsible people. Would you rather give your relatives money or payout to players when you rich? It’s a common fantasy to say I would give up my life for someone, run into fire to save stray kittens, feed the homeless, etc. When they win lotto, drop everything. Relocate. Buy homes/ cars and throw parties. While these owners are probably going to be able to ensure generations of financial security
Been pleasantly surprised to see a number of sensible takes in this thread, and particularly with upvotes, beyond “the owners are rich, who cares” narrative. While some owners suck and/or are greedy jerkoffs, the circumstances of the current situation are tough for them with so much long-term uncertainty and more at stake financially.
And good point regarding how people often change once they would personally hit it big. It makes me laugh whenever people confidently proclaim what they would or would not do if they were to ever become rich, despite history showing us that power and money frequently corrupt. To assume that one would be the exact same person then as they would be now is naive and illogical.
Hmm. If you can understand that baseball is a business for the owners and a profession for the players, then it leads directly to a comprehension of the basic issues between them. Anyone who argues that owners are running teams as some sort of glorified hobby and the players are overpaid spoiled brats will have no comprehension of the basic issues and are not going to get any closer to one. I hear a lot more of the latter than the former in these comments, day in and day out.
You read comments, not hear them. Well played.
So they want playoff revenue without having to p(l)ay for the regular season. This is embarrassing.
SO.SICK.OF.THIS!
This has become ridiculous and painful to watch the owners and the players just looking out for their own best interests.
If they cared enough about their fans or baseball they would have come to an agreement already.
Baseball was already losing fans and I won’t be surprised if they lose a whole lot more after this debacle.
Cancel 2020.
Everyone that complains about the owners does not seem to realize it is a business to them(owners) and they can operate that business as they please. I have no control Over my current employer and they can choose to cut my pay at anytime. If I do not like this my choices are to work or leave. Maybe the players should make the same choice. They may think they are immune to reality but they are not.
Smartest thing I’ve read in all these posts. Well done.
Manfred is flushing baseball down the toilet. That was his plan all along. He doesn’t like baseball.
I’ve got a pair of 2020 season tickets plus a reserved parking spot for the Rangers in their brand spanking new stadium for sale. Get ‘em while they are hot….. wont last long!
What’s that rotten smell ? Oh it’s the Dumpster that the MLB resides in !
a fifty game exhibition season. OK. Looking forward to 2021
Both Sides are at fault! The table has been set for the end of 2021 when the CBA expires!!
A big Baseball Fan but I say the HELL with MLB this year, let’s focus on MILB!!
which isnt even playing this year?
Don’t let facts spoil a good rant!
Yea, we can focus on cpbl/college leagues w/ Milb teams in them
Who really cares anymore they can all work at McDonald’s
McDonald’s sees their whining BS. Why would they hire them? They’d probably want a bonus every time someone orders fries.
It’s time for Manford to make a decision and get the season started.
Its dragged on long enough.
Manford should have locked them in a room and not let out until a deal was done.
But that said let’s play and the sooner the better.
I get why the PA didnt want to respond before, but this is fairly close to an equitable deal. they might as well fire back with 90-90 and get 80-80, which is plenty good enough for both sides. there is no reason to not counter-propose now – this isnt a bad faith proposal.
Yeah I’m surprised by both the MLB’s sharply worded letter yesterday and the MLBPA’s response. The sides seemed to be moving closer financially. If the players move off of full pro rata, then they can be in a situation where they make much more money this year than a measly 48 game pro rata income. The owners are offering a sizeable playoff bonus that the players keep failing to mention in their tweets.
Negotiating within the (if playoffs 80%, no playoffs 70%) framework could mean a lot more money for the players. But it seems like many players don’t want conditionally higher salaries, they want to send a message.
At this point who really cares?
From an MLB lifer, you are both selfish and only care about $$.
The season is over and has been.
We the fans have zero interest in you.
We the fans do not need nor want you.
We will shift our loves for sports, our attention, our heart, and our MONEY elsewhere.
You are about to learn a very humbling lesson and deservedly so.
Foolish, selfish, greedy FOOLS.
…..
This is a bunch of Horse Crap money hungry idiots both the players and owners suck! I don’t even want to see what’s going to happen next year when they have to negotiate the new agreement!
Based on the climate of ALL types of negotiations, ie Rep vs Dem, MLB vs MLBPA, the fact that nobody can agree on anything, anywhere, has become a fact of life in the US. What a sad, sad society we are all living in…
And a big middle finger to all of you.
You’re not getting any of my hard EARNED money.
.
“We” is you Dennis. You only speak for yourself. Health issues, not money is the biggest hurdle to a season. MLB and fans need to pay attention to reality of Covid challenges.
No, we need to live despite COVID.
Lol.
The players want health issues done…then want less restrictions…then want more $ in hazard pay…who says it’s only the owners who can be greedy?
I will watch on TV, but will not kick any money that direction, greedy bastards, and that applies to owners and players.
The owners were so short sided, they couldn’t see the chance of empty stadiums back in Mar h.
wow now you hate the owners for wanting a real baseball season. wow, just wow.
I would imagine they won’t be opening new CBA discussions anytime soon.
News flash: NBA and NHL to resume play. NFL opens camps in a month. MLS will start again. And Baseball will lose fans. Morons!
Besides the numerous logistical reasons this season may never happen, there’s still the matter of postseason. Commish cannot impose an expanded(money making) postseason without union approval
i dont think that will be an issue if they expect to use some of that revenue to offset regular season losses
Manfred could care less about the integrity of a championship season. He is just about making $$$ for the owners. Remember he’s the commissioner who basically said it was ok to cheat to win a championship and that the championship trophy is just a piece of metal. Why would he care about how games are played? He just wants playoffs to collect the TV $$$ for the owners along with that $1 billion coming in a year and a half.
Byebye Mlb baseball. Almost all of us have already figured out ways to occupy our lives rather than sitting in front of a TV or paying hundreds of dollars to take our family of four to a game in the nosebleed section. I invite you wholeheartedly to suck it
Love it, toastyroasty!!!!
Maybe I’m in the minority here but 83% with no fans is pretty darn good. But let’s be done with this it isn’t going to happen let’s just play the season at 100% at the number of games the owners prefer. Negotiation never had a chance so let’s just start working on how, where, and when. Decide how many games you want to play and be done with it.
The pro player side of the argument consistently ignores the sizable playoff bonus and focuses on the worst case scenario where they receive the same guarantee as 48 games. If your employer offers a bonus contingent on financial performance, it’s normally considered a benefit.
The minute the two sides signed the March agreement without a true meeting of the minds, reasonable compromise probably became impossible. I don’t think a 48 game season, followed by a longer post season, is appealing or legitimate. It’s baseball, so I’ll tune in, but the results are no better than exhibition games.
When Tony Clark is involved, it’s more of a meeting of the mind.
Prorated salaries is no concession. It’s just common sense. Aw, nuts! Just cancel the season already!
Manfred commissioner of baseball? He is just commissioner of the owners. He could care less about the integrity of a championship season. He just wants to make sure the owners get that playoff TV $$$. He knew darn well those offers would be rejected by the players. Why should he care? Remember he’s the commissioner that basically said it was ok to cheat to win a championship and that the championship trophy is just a piece of metal. We should not expect anything more from him.
Agreed
The owners can only, legally, reduce the number of games based on safety.
How can they offer 72 games and then suddenly say its not safe to play more than 50?
They are saying they want to be done before a potential second wave of,coved,comes along. CDC has been thinking it could happen when the regular flu season hits. That is why they wat to be done before November.
They can reduce the number of games not only for safety, but also based on economic feasibility in the absence fans. The problem here is that the two sides have different views of how many regular season games are feasible at what salary rate. The owners say that without fans they can only afford to pay players for about 50 games at the full pro rata rate. But the players aren’t buying it. Since neither side is willing to offer a counter and continue negotiations, it looks like management will unilaterally implement and the union will file a grievance to litigate the economic feasibility issue.
i really do feel less and less sympathetic for the union. before they were right to do this, the owners were not negotiating in good faith. at this point though the offers are very fair and yet they cant be bothered. what a joke. im glad Manfred. can mandate 50 games because that’s what the PA deserves at this point.
darkside, your switching teams?
No, he is responding with reason to new events
Agreed. MLB’s initial proposals were definite low-ball offers, but even after creeping up to what some would consider a fair or near-fair offer, MLBPA is still throwing a temper tantrum.
If the players really wanted to play they’d have agreed to something by now.
Maybe the owners should sign all those minor leaguers that have been released and put them on the field.
If the would have really wanted to play, the would not have said anything other than full prorated contracts would be a non starter. Both sides really had no real interest in truly hammering something out for the sake of the game.
The KBO is already about 30 games into its season while the NPB is set to return June 19.
pretty sad if you ask me !!Both are at Fault here . . Only In America can greed do this and a Union!
those leagues operate in different countries which have dealt with the virus differently, are smaller leagues, and likely have weaker players unions/less of a history of poor labour relations.
what concerns me the most (and actually makes me less angry towards both sides) is the evolving situation with fans being allowed back into stadiums. this is why i cant get too angry at players for balking, because if fans are fairly ubiquitous (even if filling only a % of stadiums) in a few months, there must be a provision to share this added revenue in the normal manner. (ie regular proposal gives x% of expected earnings with no fans to players, so x% of stadium earnings for when fans come back go to players as well)
I don’t think you understand how dumb Tony Clark is. No matter what else is being said, he will only hear (understand?) revenue sharing, get up, ask someone where the door is, and attempt to walk out of the room.
To all the people saying NBA got it done:
The situation is not close to be similar. NBA had already more than half of their games played with fans, which means ths league has made a large chunk of their money and players have been paid.in the end players in nba will likely get 75+% of their salary, while in mlb we are talking 30-40% (70% of prorated for half a season max). Tell lebron, harden and Giannis to play for 40% before the season started and they are not playing.
Mlb simply lost a lot more money than NBA due to worse timing.
after that call the NBA’s situation is far from fixed, and the NHL still cant commit to hub cities. i dont think the MLB is any worse of a situation than any active sport at the moment.
Both sides are trash
Honestly, my hope at this point is the league declares force majeure, tears up the CBA, and get to work on negotations.. Better that then a joke of a shortseason, followed by a year of contentious behavior, followed by a work stoppage for 2022. I find it insane that MLB is the only major sport without a salary cap. It doesn’t work, top salaries are out of control. But, ownership has to fully open their books,it’s the one way revenue sharing between the parties will work, like the NBA does. For those that think all owners can afford the current situation, keep in mind their main business isn’t the team, and a lot of businesses have taken a major hit the past three months. Maybe those owners that were born into wealth are hoarding money, but I don’t think they all are money grubbing jerks,. For the players, not all of us find much sympathy for those top salaries after we took pay cuts, lost jobs and have been struggling.
“top salaries are out of control” meanwhile in the NFL where Mahomes might get $50 million.
I do agree that is insane. But if a team chooses to do that, it handicaps them on other team members / free agents. Without a cap, it’s a battle of whoever has the most money. I don’t think that was the intention of professional sports originally, and stinks for teams and fans. Why not set a minimum and max cap, take teams away from owners that won’t spend the floor, and not allow for someone to go over. It works fairly well in the other sports, you have to draft well, choose wisely on free agents, and don’t have to worry about another owner spending 2-3 times more in payroll. I’m all for a free economy, but ths isn’t what pro sports should be about,. Its entertainment, plain and simple, and most of us would give our first born to be a pro athlete. I know the biggest spender isn’t always the winner, in fact it tends to sink a team eventually with a handful of bad contracts, but why allow it in the first place?
That’s the problem with being mega-rich. When you reach that level of status, everyone comes to label you and blame you for anything that transpires with folks or organizations who make less money than you do.
It is discrimination, plain and simple, despite it being true that some owners are awful.
To use politics as an example, I saw a number of folks hating on Bloomberg merely for being rich despite many, clearly, not knowing a thing about him beyond that. Were there legitimate reasons to dislike him? Absolutely. But to write off someone due to their wealth is wrong, lest it be blood money.
the nerve of you to so adamantly defend yourself saying nothing of fact and simply a load of provoking insults. you could really use to stop doing this Strike Four.
Lets get a few facts straight here. The universal players agreement in the CBA states that if games are suspended due to a national emergency that players will only get paid for games that are actually played. So the basic premise of the prorated salaries is in the CBA, it wasn’t some paycut the players agreed to, this is just how it is written. What the players signed in March specifically said there would not be a season if there were no fans unless the owners decided it was feasible. It then went on to say players would get prorated salaries unless there were no fans in which case both sides will negotiate in good faith which the players have not done.
The owners original proposal was for 82 games paying the players roughly $1..2B. There last offer was for 72 games paying roughly 1.5B. So the owners have moved their deal up by 25% of total pay and 42% more per game. The players fully prorated salary in 72 games would be 1.78B, all they really needed to do was come down anything at all and the owners would have taken it The players this entire time have just said no and offered no compromise. The owners have made large strides in their offers and the players simply refuse to negotiate. I put this about 75% on the players and 25% on the owners at this point.
Players already made a huge concession don’t forget that. They could’ve kept their full salaries and idk if MLB could’ve done anything about it. Yes the owners have made small steps forward, but it’s still basically 33% of their originally salaries no matter the proposal
HOW exactly could they have kept their full salaries?
It’s a pandemic and they are rich. You don’t get brownie points for such concessions, especially not after failing to negotiate in good faith when the circumstances would change.
Players should not be paid their full salaries with no fans in attendance. To think otherwise is crazy.
No the players made no concession. The uniform players agreement says that if games are suspended for a national emergency players don’t get paid for them. The owners made a concession in march by saying even if the season is scrapped we will still pay the players something, they didn’t have to do that. If they had decided to just scrap the season in March the players would not have gotten any money this season.
Same.
And even if one wouldn’t agree with those percentages, I think it’s fair to say that, at a minimum, the players deserve more than 50% of the blame.
@endermlb – finally a logical response.
I’d add this take. A player gets hurt or has a bad season and still gets full salary. Not bc he deserves it, but bc it’s in the contract. MLB was able to reopen negotiations and not pay full annual salaries, but only prorated salaries for the same reason. The Force Majeure clause in the contract.
The flawed March agreement acknowledged the need to renegotiate if there were no fans. Maybe not so flawed if you consider that the Owners probably know who they are negotiating with and didn’t want to drag things out at that point till more information became available.
A ‘reasonable man’ just wants to know how much revenue fans generate and then make a proportional reduction in prorated salaries.
Attendance and ticket prices are public information. Any decent MBA Student could model that revenue. Totally flabbergasting if MLBPA doesn’t already track / model it. They’re amateurs and clowns if they don’t.
Any argument about ‘opening the books’ is simplistic and childish. You share revenue numbers with your partners in the ownership of that revenue. MLBPA isn’t in that position bc they have not included revenue sharing in their CBA.
MLB’s offer of 80% of salaries on a per game basis points to fan revenues equal to 20% of all revenue. I think that fans generate a bit more of the total, so I think its a reasonable deal for the players.
Obviously the playoffs generates significant monies for the owners. This is clear from the way they structured their offers. MLBPA should have taken a deal that got as much prorated salary per game (80% is reasonable and could have gotten 85% to 90% IMO) and then taken another bite of the apple with a bonus based on the playoffs. MLB Owners were jonesing for playoff revenue- there was money to be made for MLBPA.
MLBPA doesn’t have the right leadership and isn’t putting professional negotiators in play.
…every “right” to see it as disrespectful, etc. – that’s an unqualified yes – but every “reason” – maybe not so much.
I’m glad there will be independent league baseball that we can actually attend. I’m more interested in that than some ridiculous 50 game farce of a season. I might watch a game or two but this whole season (if there is one) is just exhibition baseball to me at this point.
It won’t be to the players, they’ll be competing their tails off in a shortened season!
Oh, yeah. Disgruntled employees are always a ball of fire. lol
Don’t indie leagues generally play about a 50 game schedule?
Every time I read one side or the other escalate, I get more disgusted, My sympathies are generally with the players, but they need to hire professionals next time. They’ve played right into the owners hands.
Will the greedy owners please pay the greedy players so we can have a season already?
Ummm, that’s a bit selective pointing to 1947 as MLB’s foray into racial equality. I remember reading that Jackie Robinson felt he was treated much better in the minor leagues in Montreal by Canadians than he was in the majors in American cities.
I’d love to see baseball return but I’m not deluding myself into believing the MLB is a model for racial equality.
The point is that saying sports should not be on someone’s mind because bad things are happening is not a good argument. Of course Jackie had a horrible time in the MLB; I’m not saying otherwise. But there is no doubt that baseball integration helped lead to public integration. Sports can be a very positive thing so brining sports back is good.
Bringing*
Looking at it through 2020 colored glasses, sure… looking at it in historical context, what baseball started doing in 1947 was way ahead of anything anywhere else in the country.
I wish the league would just hire scab players and be done with it. It would be an even, albeit much less talented , field of players. Asterisks will abound throughout history for this season anyway. Play ball.
I don’t particularly think the players want to play and I certainly don’t think the owners want a season. And I think Manfred cares about nothing but keeping his job, even if it means breaking the sport in the process. I wish they all just admit it and be done with it.
Manfred and Clark are both idiots.
id bet if manfred would resign then the players would be happy to sign any deal to play this summer
Hell, if Manfred resigns I’ll suit up.
MLPA are greedy. Without owners and MLB the players are just great local softball players.
Disagree, players have already made big concession, owners haven’t. Players could’ve argued for full salaries and they very likely would’ve won that argument. Owners haven’t conceded anything yet
Joey, would you pay to go to work knowing you are not getting money for it? Because that is what the owners have done at this point. The entire season could be written off and no salaries would be owed to players and the players walk away with 170M … i know a pittance to their salaries but that is a concession.
The owners (whether pressured into it or not) are paying their other employees. you know the concession people, the minor leaguers are getting money, scouts, maintenance regardless of play has to be done, taxes have to be paid regardless if season is played, etc etc.
So let me see what concessions have the players made, every game we play we will be paid full price for that game and f anyone else and dont care if you have the money to pay anyone else? Yes you have to pay more to be covid-19 compliant because if you dont and i get sick im going to sue you for making me play for full price. Also if i choose not to play because of covid 19 you will still pay me full and it will have no negative impact whatsoever on me? Yup i like those concessions.
in then end Tony Clark is to blame for this mess, the guy is a horrible union leader and f’d them years ago with what he agreed to in contracts and is now trying to make up for that crap work in the past and making things even worse.
Manfried and the owners definitely share some of the blame but not as much as Tony. I hope there is no baseball this year and players strike next year. This way everyone cleans house.
MLBPA are greedy and without MLB and the owners… they are nothing more than great local softball players
The owners and players aren’t rich enough? Screw ‘em! Let them sit home and binge watch Netflix or go out partying and catch COVID. I simply don’t care.
Most players aren’t “rich” ALL the owners are
I dont care how many games, I dont care who is “right or wrong” I just want baseball back. “bad” baseball is way better than NO baseball. Lets goooo! Cmon already!
Yep
Announcement of TBS TV deal had to have broke this deal. This is guaranteed money for the league. That lifts the MLBPA’s confidence to negotiate for more with this being leverage. Manfred is Commissioner because of his hunger for more business. He’s not a baseball man, he is a money man. And this sets the season back thanks to poor timing on his part.
Owners will need to give a little more on this. They should also push for Manfred to be fired. He lacks tact. That’s a fact.
It’s more “forced manure” than “force majeure”…..
I can see both sides of the argument here. What I CAN’T see is the inability of both sides to negotiate a settlement. I’m sure both sides have their share of Harvard and Wharton types…..it’s hard to believe that these are irreconciable differances.
Differant viewpoints are endemnic to labor negotiations; nothing new here. But the handling of the situation has been attrocious, both from a facts specific to the industry sense and a public relations sense. Really, a total catastrophy.
Amen
They’ve both long since lost any “moral high ground” they may have had and that was before covid came along.
I sure would like to read the full agreement from March. Not sure if it’s available somewhere but I can’t find it. One side or the other is dead wrong on their understanding of the language about with fans or without fans. If it’s even in there. Was it just a gentlemen’s agreement and the players/union crossed their fingers while shaking hands? Down right ridonkulous at this point. Both Manfred and Clark should find different jobs.
If I was the MLB I’d just be like “No play, no pay!”
Exactly, just like rent, no pay, no stay!!
Not a fan of the MLB making it seem like the players r taking away money from other employees. The players have already made a huge concession the owners haven’t that’s the issue here, yes you might want the players to take even more but the fact is they already gave up a lot and the owners haven’t yet given up anything. If the players really wanted they could’ve argued for full salaries and they very likely would’ve won that fight. MLB hasn’t actually proposed more money it’s basically just been the same thing over and over again
The league is missing half of its revenue, so that’s what the owners are giving up.
No, but you see, the players should still receive their full salaries.
…for some reason
…even though the owners are the ones absorbing most of the risk with organizations that have grounded to a halt.
I really want to give the players the benefit of the doubt, but they aren’t giving me a single reason to do so.
Another 35% proposal coming on Monday? Just knock it off, just come forward with the forced plan so the union can file a grievance to finally put the 2020 season to its fitting miserable end.
well that’s a pretty big error there
I said it once, and I’ll say it again – they can take that 50-ish game season and shove it. The owners and players had months to negotiate a deal and couldn’t get it done. They had a huge opportunity to be the first pro sport back and send baseball’s popularity skyrocketing but nope – the billionaires and millionaires kept squabbling over money. So if they don’t care, why should I? This ‘non-season’ has taught me that there are plenty of things to do (and worry about) over and above baseball.
Agree
I’m down, beyou…50ish games is just grasping at $$$ straws….I’m a fan of over 55 seasons, over 500 games in person, 47 stadiums in person, and at this moment, I miss it like a hangover……
This is all groundwork for the upcoming CBA negotiations.
Players definitely do not trust the owners & will be looking at changes financially & to the powers that are given to the commissioner.
Baseball fans are running out of patience…..why is it that other pro sports are moving on???
If you can’t agree on terms, games, salary…..shut it down until 2021. The real fans are suffering cause you two zillions aires cannot agree on anything. Play the games, summer is here……..where is the commish on this?
There is no such thing as a “real fan”, that’s you being egotistical.
Whether you like it or not, the reality is sports do absolutely nothing other than pass the time and take your money.
Just declare the sport dead, and someone will try form a Cincinnati semipro team in 150 years with underhand pitching and start all over.
Let the game go back to the kids for a long while, so we can understand why baseball is so great and the beings currently in control of its professional aspect are simply not worthy of this wonderful yet ruined game.
Underhand pitching???….sign me up!!!!….signed….Softball Guy….
Whatever. I love baseball and always will but F Rob Manfred and F Tony Clark.
Everyone has and is making sacrifices during this crisis, almost. Baseballs owners and players have shown again they could care less about the fans. When you decide to come back I won’t be there suspect many others feel the same.
“with an amicable resolution to a very difficult situation caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.” There was one… back in March… and now the owners want more money so they have backed out of the March Agreement..
Did you know that in March the owners weren’t certain that there wouldn’t be fans at games? Those agreements were made with the expectation that fans could possibly attend games. Coronavirus models used by local, state and the federal governments predicted 0 coronavirus deaths per day by mid June. Look back at the IHME model. The owners didn’t agree to pay full pro-rated salaries with zero fans in attendance. The players have to understand this or we won’t have baseball this year and the game might take a bit of a hit for years to come. The NBA is getting ready to play and the NFL is planning a full season so why is that baseball is having problems coming to an agreement with players?
Carpola… you are just making excuses for the MLB… I have been tracking and writing about the Virus since January.. and the Models were based upon the assumptions that the US Federal Government would respond with due diligence and the full might of the US to contain the Virus.. since many of the Owners Know the Malignancy in the White House.. they Knew he wasn’t capable of responding in any meaningful way.. ( as I was writing on the lack of response back in January… The US had already reported deaths in February….. On March 11th the WHO announced a world wide PANDEMIC… The 1st IHME report release March 26th ….here is a copy of the pertinent data to this post..
“New COVID-19 forecasts: US hospitals could be overwhelmed in the second week of April by demand for ICU beds, and US deaths could total 81,000 by July” healthdata.org/news-release/new-covid-19-forecasts……
the MLB and the Teams announced their agreement on March 27.. usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2020/03/27/details-o…
They Knew full well the World was in a pandemic, Deaths were coming wholesale to the US.. and they ignored the reality trying to make a buck… and now they want the Players to bail out them from their OWN ignorance…
Irrelevant.
The numbers agreed to, to our knowledge, were based on fans coming back. It doesn’t matter what you, I or anyone else was expecting to happen. I, too, thought it was a foregone conclusion that if games were to be played, it was going to be without fans.
The point is there was an understanding that a new agreement would be drawn up once no fans in attendance was confirmed, except the players want to be paid the same amount regardless. I can’t see how that would be fair given the change in negotiated circumstances.
For someone who pretends to like facts, you sure left out a lot of the relevant ones. I guess you’re just another person who hates the owners for being rich without bothering to use your brain to consider the actual situation.
Political opinions were already asked to leave
They agreed to the frame work in march… you implication that there was a tacit side agreement isn’t documented or valid.. The players are saying exactly what they agreed too.. the owners.. are trying to break a contract..
Time to bring out Al Bundy and the nudie bar league!
Brockmire!!!!
BIGGUNS!
Go home find a real job, guys. You might then realize what you just did.
I’ve been optimistic about a season for long term but I’m starting to think it’s not happening and if it does, it’ll be a lame shortened season. If it’s not 70 or so games I’m not in favor of having a season. Do you guys think it’s worth it if the season is so short? Expanded playoffs might make up for it but if something doesn’t happen soon I think the league is going to have to get really creative to make the season feel like a real MLB season.
Tribepride….I think anything MLB tries now is just a cash grab….expanded playoffs are awful, winning your league, or (after expansion) division, used to mean something….letting a bunch of second rate teams into the postseason just makes MLB no better than the NBA or NHL…there’s no participation trophies in MLB…..and, no DH in the NL!!!!….even though a keg of beer at second base sounds like a good idea, it really isn’t…..
This situation worries me. The next CBA is going to be ugly.
I get a good laugh from people that think baseball is life and death stuff. There are other entertainment that I like more.
What a dumb statement. There’s millions of people that think the same thing about what entertains you. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter.
What a dumb reaction. Pro sports accomplish nothing other than to pass the time. We need to be using our time better and the way you cant see that the earth is on fire right now means you need to be educating yourself more.
What kind of “education” are you talking about? The one that has everyone agreeing with you? No thanks I think we have enough hate filled trolls
bring in replacement players…. the guys that really would love to play!!!
unreal!
Death to anyone who would cross a union picket line. I’d rather look at nature than a scab. Shame on you. Be better.
Zounds.
“Death to anyone that would cross a picket line.”
First day here. This is a very eye opening comment.
This dude is a troll
At one point I was with the players but not..screw then! Being greedy while some lost their jobs completely snd some don’t know when they’ll go back..some had to file for Unemplyment and never received a single payment. You’re still gonna make millions and aren’t happy with it What a joke
Lol at this point I’m conjuring the $240 million contract man Robinson Cano injecting himself with steroids and I’m done with baseball as a fan. I’m ashamed of myself for not fully realizing what was happening. Is this woke?
No, you’re right, and honestly I no longer believe your players even want to play this year. They want to sit back and collect full pay. Owners should just pack it up and spend rest of 2020 making 2021 as safe as possible. I don’t even care anymore. They’ve both damaged their sport so much with these counterproposals.
*the* players not your players.
Ugh, on to the NFL
This time around i think there will be contraction. Say goodbye to the A’s and DRays to start. I honestly think this drags beyond the 2020 season into 2021 with a prolonged strike. This has been brewing for a while. Both sides can’t aand won’t agree. The only path forward is a salary cap and floor to bring some parity to the sport otherwise you might as well have a six team A league and then the rest of the teams move to a lesser B league due to payroll disparity.
If anything, it should promote expansion.
There’s more money to be made with more MLB teams, and though it wouldn’t save all the minor league teams getting the axe, it would preserve or create about 12 minor league teams.
I dread the end of the ’21 season, because I’m sure neither side is going to learn from this debacle.
Unless a miracle happens, you can’t call it Spring Training anymore. It will be Summer in less than a week. Give it up baseball.
Signing off this site and will be happy to come back in October. Maybe then these idiots will be focused on getting 2021 right and the hot stove will be fun to read about. Literally dealing with relatives with covid right now (as are so many around the world). Wake up, MLB and MLBPA. You couldn’t pick a worse time to be acting like this.
Exactly right. So much more important things going on right now, sports is a valueless distraction that makes people think things are normal and ok. They are not.
Maybe the “new normal” America means we do away with professional sports altogether? Maybe pro sports are part of the reason why America is in shambles right now??
There was nothing vague about the March deal, it very clearly states that without fans things would need to be renegotiated. Clark just doesn’t want to admit he wasn’t paying attention and the league as a whole is suffering for it.
Seems MLB wants to learn a difficult lesson – again. Here’s hoping for a significant fan revolt. I love baseball, but it’s time these whining rich kids on both sides learned a lesson from the fans.
America shouldn’t have sports this year, period. Its the most stupid, worthless, valueless thing we could have a society right now.
Arrogant b00mers would rather storm the steps of govt houses and riot than read a book. You are bored because you are not interesting. Read a book, become more interesting. Get a different hobby, there’s literally hundreds of things you could do other than watch live sports.
You realize you are on a baseball blog right. Why don’t you go buzz off “read a book” and stop calling people derogatory names. Since calling anyone a derogatory name is the weapon of the ignorant, looks like you have either not been reading books or reading hateful ones.
@midway.
Salut.
He’s bored otherwise he wouldn’t be here. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The idiom describes him well.
After watching this for months, and telling myself I wasn’t going to take a side, I am just happy MLB baseball is returning. And frankly, if I have to pick an unreasonable side here, I’m siding with the players. Good faith negotiation would entail sharing information (franchise revenues), and since that was never provided, I see more of a point in Players’ refusal to move from the “no changing the pro-rated agreement” demand. Nothing required owners to provide financials but nothing required players to lower their demands. My hope at this point is that each side learned something from each other here but that’s probably a fool’s errand on my part.
Manfred has the remarkable ability of screwing everything up that he touches. History will remember him as the Commissioner who began the road to baseball’s demise. Maybe they can draw as many fans as soccer. Be proud, Commissioner.
“MLB has made three successive proposals that would provide players, Clubs and our fans with an amicable resolution to a very difficult situation caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.”
Imagine dying for a fan, the most worthless part of the game.
MLB is a disgrace for wanting to play games this year. We already had 1994, just have another, who cares. Stop trying to murder baseball players.
Seems that you are ignoring the players and their union who are ready to play, just haggling over the money. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Just let Karen be Karen and move on.
What a mess! MLB and the Players Association could both file grievances under the current collective bargaining agreement and the March 2020 side agreement. And, both parties have laid the groundwork for unfair labor practice charges to the National Labor Relations Board. I will not be surprised for the union to file an unfair labor practice charge against MLB for failing to bargain in good faith, then conduct an unfair labor practice strike that shuts down the season.
That was a fine offer from the MLB. Not sure what more the MLB can offer.
I’m really starting to question the MLBPA’s motives, man.
By the day, I side more with the owners. We’ve ALL had to make adjustments due to Covid-19.
I own a construction company. Early on our volume was down significantly from years past. Even though we are essential industry, sales were strongly impacted.
To weather the storm I definitely made some concessions in building jobs I’d normally have no interest in building. Look. A 10K job requires the same preparation, resources, & planning as a 50K job. When my sales guys drag little jobs in, generally, I tell them to go find a real job to build. In the interest of keeping them going financially I built everything we could. No matter how small.
Same with my tradesman. To keep them going I landed some new construction jobs. The good news is these are simple, straightforward jobs. Which is also the bad news. Our normal jobs average ~ 40% profit. New con? ~ 15%.
Now.
We worked together on this.
But, bro…had they told me that they wanted the same compensation as usual I’d’ve taken the summer off. Haven’t had any kind of summer vacation in 14 years, man.
How is it not obvious that no fans in attendance equates to far less revenue?
A few years ago I abandoned the NBA.
Know what?
I feel my life got a little better.
Keep alienating us. A definite percentage of fans will walk away.
My thoughts exactly. No sure what more the MLB Players Union wants. They can’t possibly expect the indvidual teams to pay them full pro rated salaries the rest of the season with 40,000+ empty seats in each stadium. The percentage of revenue from ticket sales, concessions, parking is a lot higher than some of the bozos posting here keep saying. It’s not all TV revenue, not even close.
But to be perfectly honest I don’t care anymore. In fact their squabbling is so pathetically petty i hope the whole league goes under and never plays another game. It was slowly happening anyways if you look at the demographics and average age of the fans. Clearly a sport slowly dying.
It was literally the same offer they’ve offered previously. All they did was adjust the number of games played and percentage of prorated salaries. The numbers were the same.
The owners aren’t willing to compromise, that much is clear. They’re not even interested in deferring salaries, which the players have made clear they were willing to accept.
welll that’s all that has changed since their negotiations, tic toc tic toc.
And the players have compromised…at all?
Just scattershooting here….negotiations between the two parties reminds me of the quote from Charles Dudley Warner, “ Everyone complains about the weather but no one does anything about it”. On a brighter note, just think of the stories we will be able to impart on the next generation about the demise of the grand ole game called baseball.
As I read through the comments, my take on the latest statement from Tony Clark is that the league will set a schedule like an arbitrator, and there will probably be baseball according to that. I did not take this as the final “there will be no season” at all. It sounds like Manfred will decide on how many games, likely shorter than what the players want but that does not sound like season cancelled at all.
Anyway maybe I’m the one who doesn’t understand, but I feel like perhaps everyone is reacting to the disagreement and not reading the fine print that Manfred will likely set a schedule, and that the players are deferring to him to do so. I didn’t expect an agreement, but I’m happy that the players seem to want to play and are asking the league to set the schedule. Sounds like a pretty good chance there will be baseball to me.
We will see, I think Tony Clark is setting up Manfred to make the schedule so the union can officially file their greviance against MLB.
Anyhow, I really don’t have much interest in a 48 game season.
The owners proposals have NOT been acceptable. They keep recycling the same crap in each offer. I agree with the players that more talks would be futile. Commissioner Manfred needs to step up and decide for MLB how many games will be played with full prorated salaries. Then figure out if there is going to be expanded playoffs with 10, 12, 14 16 teams.
Both sides have been slow dancing for months. The music has been shut off. Now make a decision Commish Manfred and let’s see some baseball!
At this point i’m so sick of these two sides whining and squabbling like the spoiled brats that they are, I hope they fight and fight and the league not only doesn’t play this season but goes under for good. GOOD RIDDANCE!
Both sides have good arguments, but the art of negotiation is extremely weak on both sides. One would think that with that many supposedly intelligent people involved, each side could move slightly to the middle and avoid having professional baseball look like a train wreck.
There is a deal in place for the players to get their pro rated salary.Period.
There is a deal in place for the owners to minimize their loss.Period.
There is no longer a functional commissioner operating in the best interests of baseball.Period.
All this current bs is is an arguement which serves as a prelude for the contract negotiations for next year.Period.
Neither side wants to look weak.
Start a 54 game schedule ASAP and let the chips fall as they may.Too much clamoring going on and not enough doing.
What this game needs is a commissioner like the late,great Moe Howard.
When the players,Curley,and the owners,Larry,would act like idiots,Moe would bash their heads together.This action incredibly worked most of the time to end any insane arguement that these two knuckleheads would have that thwarted progress.
It is that simple.
We need a take charge guy like the smartest Stooge to enable us to watch the game that we all love.
This is my first time posting so bear with me if I don’t do it correctly.. Why couldn’t they agree to play the 82 game season at a % of the prorated rate and defer the balance of the prorated rate over the next 2 years? With a guarantee of payment to all players? The fans would get baseball, the players would get the money they agreed to in March and the owners would be able to spread any ‘losses’ over two years? The owners could even have a forecast on how to manipulate their payroll over the next 2 years to offset the deferred payments.
I may be just whistling at the wind here but I can’t imagine why somebody has’t sugessted something along these lines already. (And if they have, then I apologize for missing it)
I’m not sure, since this is your first post, if you frequent this site much, but if this is your gut reaction supposing that you are new then it speaks volumes. This is what any normal passerby would come up with, and what we’ve been screaming for months. You’re correct, it SHOULD be this simple, it’s plain to see, to everyone.
Because ferretti, The owners are greedily adament to offer nothing to the Players and teach them who’s in charge. This is a prep for the CBA in 21 as well.
So it’s set up for the Commissioner to implement some insulting season length like 20 games (while trying to extend the playoffs) or just lock the players out and the court battle will wipe out the 20 and 21 seasons (at least). Great job by both sides creating as acrimonious a situation as possible.
Here’s my solution. It would work. But they gotta do this fast.
They start and play whatever this season is under the owners last proposal…..BUT….the owners then annuitize the difference in what they would have paid the players under their (the player’s) last proposal and start paying it to the players next year and beyond. The payments go out for as many years as the player’s contract has left to go.
So if a guy is on a one year deal he gets the balance of this year’s contract next year. If a guy has 5 years left it gets paid out over 5 years in addition to his regular contract which presumably will go back to normal next year. Guys who have options picked up have their repayments stretched out to account for the new contract. The payments will follow players to their new clubs if they are traded and the new owner will pay it. New contracts don’t. The owner of the Reds will pay his ex-player whatever he owes him even if he signs a new deal with the Twins.
The low paid guys get their money sooner. The bigshots over several years.
The annuity money does not count against future caps.
The owners could even escrow a certain % of the money up front.
They could negotiate the start of the repay later (say starting in ’23 so the game has a chance to recover before the $$$ has to be shelled out) in exchange for bigger payments that pay back the salary faster.
They can come up with a formula that speeds everything up if the game recovers and flourishes sooner. Both sides would have an incentive to get the game back on it’s feet ASAP.
See…..I fixed it.
Considering there is a growing culture that seeks to eliminate competition, politically and socially, I think that major league baseball and its players union deserve this. Screw them. I am no longer interested, even at a long distance.
I wonder how those players will vote in November. Considering that we are suffering the consequences of a particular agenda from those who have TDS, I wonder how many of those millionaires who would never make anywhere near that much money without athletics are going to perceive this.
Buh-bye baseball. You are history.
Players not negotiating in good faith? That’s rich! Their proposals were at least different & moving towards the middle (even if not as far as owners wanted). Owners just made the same offer over & over, like a $20 bill, 2 $10s, 4 $5s, etc. Talk about bad faith! And much of it wasn’t even guaranteed, so the players might not even get it. And let’s not forget that agreeing to prorated salaries was a big give. Players had guaranteed money for the season. Season = salary, regardless of length. So they gave up half what they could legally claim (now probably more), right from the jump. And the owners’ response is MORE!
No they didn’t. The owners made several different offers. It’s the players that refused to budge at all. SORRY.
Each offer produced the same numbers. They adjusted the number of games and percentages, but in the end, the numbers came out the same.
Why do you think there were so many jokes about the offer being repackaged?
Simon sez: There will be three 10-team regional leagues playing an abbreviated schedule ranging up to 54 games without fans and their revenues.
A dozen or more teams will make plenty of money because of good TV contracts which all share to some extent to keep the bottom feeders (like the A’s and Marlins) solvent.
It will be exciting from the start because every team has some chance however small to make an expanded playoff,
Then randomness will extended so that an 8 with good pitching might beat a 1 in a 3-game set (minimum should be 5).
Ultimately 2 teams will be in a WS, and they both won’t be as bad as the all wildcard WS in 2014.
Once the Puritans and the Objectors get over their pique, it will be exciting because it will be baseball and every game will count!
Play Ball!
No expanded playoffs with an imposed schedule by the commissioner!
You’re probably right because neither side wants to give an inch, but why wouldn’t the players agree?
There would be a bribe of some sort involved.
The players should agree. However, we have reached a point where decisions may be made out of spite!
The decisions are not being made out of spite, they are being made out of something far more tangible: money. The positions both sides are taking now is a lot more about 2021 than it is about 2020, and that’s a good reason to worry about the future of baseball.
The facts seem pretty clear to me. Fans generate approximately 40% of league wide revenues (a little over $4B). With no fans in attendance, owners lose money. If the league brought in over $4B in profits each year, teams valuations would be 2X or 3X of what they are today. That’s just simple economics.
So with 40% of the revenues gone, why not just split the difference and offer the players 80% of pro-rated salaries. Forget about playoff bonuses. Owners will still lose money but at least the players would show some goodwill by agreeing to help offset some of the losses like the front office staff and others who have taken pay cuts have already done throughout every organization. If the players balk at this, then 100% of the blame can be put on them. They obviously don’t care about their fellow, non-player team employees who have already sacrificed pay along with game day employees who have lost their jobs. This is a once in a lifetime, unprecedented crisis and everyone needs to make sacrifices to get back to a semi-normal life. Regardless of what happens this season, next year is already affected as well. Free agency is going to be a disaster for players, even the elite players like Mookie. No chance in hell that he gets anything close to the $400M he was looking for. I’d be surprised if he even gets offered $300M/10 years. Owners are going to be frugal to offset this season’s losses so the more the players take this year, the worse it’s going to be for them in the upcoming years. Let’s cut the crap and play some ball. We’re all sick of it.
Your proposal is a non-starter for the players’ union. With the owners’ latest offer: if the playoffs are not completed, the players get 70% pro rated salaries for 72 games, about the same amount as 100% for 50 games. If the playoffs complete, the pay is bumped to 83%. This is a easily attainable pay raise and would likely result in more money for players compared with 50 games. Of course, the players could easily negotiate these numbers to 75%/90% or something, but the union has publicly stated that 100% pro rated salaries is non-negotiable. This easily could have been a win-win situation but the union won’t budge on the only issue they need to budge on to get to a deal.
Your latter point about future free agency is another unexplored aspect of this. Imagine the players get exactly what they want and the owners take a huge bath (114 games, salary advance and oops the December playoffs are cancelled so there goes playoff revenue). Free Agency would become a hellscape for the next 5 years as teams deal with the new financial reality of losing tens of millions of dollars.
Yeah, I’m about done with these overpaid whiners. I dont care if they play, this year or next. Either MLBPA is in cahoots with the owners, or it’s a collection of the world stupidest millionaires.
World’s stupidest millionaires
Who cares anymore. I have gone this long without baseball. I can go the rest of the season and beyond. I am a big time fan too.
The one joy in life I thought I’d never lose no matter what, was watching the Giants beat the Dodgers. Now? I have zero interest in MLB. In fact, I really hope they cancel the entire season so the players can see what it’s like to not work. Thank you for killing the lifelong joy. I’d rather go play catch in a park. Who needs ya!
The Union threw this season into Manfried’s lap and said you decide which is funny because he works for the owners. He’ll decide whatever the majority of owners want. However, the Union doesn’t have o accept the expanded playoff.
A strike may very well happen after 2021 and probably will with how well these two sides get along.
The MLB doesn’t want to play into November because they’ll go up against the NFL for TV ratings a revenue. But NFL only plays on the Weekends and Monday and MLB is a seven day a week deal. Of course, during playoffs, they try to schedule as many games as possible on the weekend. too. There’s too much time off begin games anyway.
I don’t have the slightest interest in whether the NFL, NBA or Hockey play at all. What happens between sports, financially is like comparing apples, orange and pears.
I’ll watch when they play again no matter how many games they play.
I love the way these “negotiations” are playing out.
Owners: “Here’s our offer.”
Union: “No. We’re so disgusted we won’t even counter.”
Union: “Ok, here’s a brand new offer.”
Owners: “No. We’re so disgusted we won’t even counter.”
Owners: “Ok, here’s a brand new offer.”
On and on it goes.
Been a baseball fan for over 5 decades, and I have to say that I’m on the verge of not caring any more. Baseball has an incredible opportunity to be the ones at the front in bringing “normal” life back to the masses. Instead, the greed displayed by the players is sickening. The millions they get is not enough, they have to get more. The owners, at least from my perspective, have been the only party actually trying to put Baseball back together. The players union has become the kind of union that does not care about the fans or the game. The players union is only about getting more, and more, to the complete destruction of their own livelihoods. Maybe it’s time for the owners to move past the union and begin rebuilding baseball with non-union players.
Baloney. Both sides are about getting more, and if you think the owners care about fans except as a source of revenue then I have to wonder where you’ve been keeping yourself all those years. And if you believe union busting is the solution then it’s pretty obvious that you don’t understand the problem.
Of course both sides want more, but if you think the owners aren’t more invested than the players you are ignorant of what it means to own a business. The players union is still insisting on full salaries. That isn’t negotiating. That is pure greed in the face of fans struggling to keep it together. The owners will lose multi millions with no fans in the stands. So tell me, how are the players not the problem here? This union, and by extension the players, are so out of touch it’s disgusting. The whole world takes an economic hit, but the players refuse to take a cut? How am I supposed to take their side when they want to live in an alternate reality?
As a business owner myself, no, I don’t believe I am ignorant in that particular area. A business owner who believes they can along just as well without their employees, now that’s ignorance. A business owner who believes their profits are guaranteed, that’s ignorance too. In baseball the owners have a very special deal. We know how much every one of their employees makes right down to the dollar, but how much ownership takes away from the game is a secret. This works like a charm when it leads to fan resentment of the players, as if we show up to watch the owners own instead of the players play. So I am not siding with anyone, I am simply understanding what this is about. The game is a business for the owners and a profession to the players and they are behaving accordingly.
No it’s not baloney. The players on insisting on 100% pro=rated salaries which is impossible for the owners given they will have ZERO fans in the stands and therefore ZERO ticket revenues, concessions and parking revenues which account for approximately 40% of their operating budgets. That reality means that they simply can’t eat that much of a loss from bloated player salaries. The fact that the Union isn’t willing to compromise at all is the problem.
The season is essentially lost anyways. Let’s call up the minor league players to play in the major league stadiums. We are baseball starved and most probably will watch all the shortened season games. Up and coming stars will be fun to watch. I suggest a 26-man squad with each team fielding an additional 4 women for a total of 30 players.
Baseball is in love with statistics. A 15-homer season will be a monster in a 50-75 game season.. When the season is done all the stats will have an asterisk at the end. Who cares for that!
Wouldn’t work. The same health and safety issues that involve the major leaguers would affect the minor leaguers. What would you call them? Would they still be considered minor leaguers playing in a major league stadium or are you going to dress them up and call them major leaguers? Then there would be all sorts of roster implications. Do you want your top prospects accruing service time before they are ready? Plus when the regular players come back, will the minor league players be accepted or will they be labeled “scabs” for the rest of their careers. Minor league players dream of playing alongside MLB players, not replacing them in a labor dispute. Also don’t forget most teams have released around 30 or so of their minor leaguers. Most of these would have been the guys you would have used. Fringe players who you could have easily disposed of once the regulars came back. It would be a horrific thing to do to a top prospect to bring them up and forever taint them as a replacement player. So the idea of bringing up minor leaguers isn’t feasible
You still think this is about “health and safety?” It’s all about the money. Always has been, always will be.
Remind you that MLB put out a 67 page booklet detailing steps that needed to be taken for social distancing. Unlike the NBA, where they plan on quarantining the entire sport for 4 months ( by the way, the NBA players haven’t officially signed on to that) , MLB teams would play at their home stadiums. As far as “bringing up the minor leaguers “ do you plan on dressing them up as MLB players? Will ESPN , FOX , and Turner ask for rebates to televise their games? If you try to pass them off as MLB players you will have to do a massive DFA dump when the regular players return. Looking at my beloved Baltimore Orioles, they sure don’t want to ruin Adley Rutschman career before it starts by having him labeled a “scab”. Short term fixes would lead to long term implications. None of them good.
BINGO. The Corona virus is only slightly more deadly than influenza as statistics have shown since this began.
Minor League players are just that. Play them as such and pay them minor league salaries. Since they will play in empty stadiums in minor league parks anyways, they can play in major league parks just for fun. Or, just televise minor league games, but jazz them up. They will not be “scabs,’ as minor league players. There is not much money going to be made, no matter what happens with negotiations. Looks like both sides rather not budge from their positions. And that means NO BASEBALL, at least no major league baseball. Player development still goes on. I am going to watch the minors this year and enjoy the game. Baseball does not need business to muck it all up. Young players play just as hard, and maybe more so such as running all out to first on a weak grounder. And yeah, that curve ball doesn’t bend all that well and come in flat; the catchers have more passed balls and shave every third day, but there will be enthusiasm.
Where are you going to watch the minors? They aren’t playing. Unless you want to wait for the Arizona Fall League. And as far as minor league players playing in MLB stadiums, where would they live? In the minors they share apartments or live with a host family. Having 4 players share an apartment wouldn’t be advisable with the virus. What about travel? Would a MLB team fly minor leaguers charter to go from place to place? Stay at 5 star hotels. And would ESPN televise exhibition games involving minor leaguers? Keep in mind when the COVID virus shut down the game in March, most minor leaguers hadn’t showed up to minor league Spring Training. They would probably need a month to get ready. Would MLB owners pay the money necessary for “Spring Training in June”. The owners would be silly to gather up the minor league players currently scattered all over the world and bring them to their major league facilities. The expense wouldn’t be worth it
Did strikefour create a second account?
Just call it for 2020. The players aren’t willing to compromise at all and intend to strike in 2021 anyways with the expiration of the mlbpa contract on Dec. 1, 2021. This strike will extend through next season as well.
Playing a shortened season of less than 100 and holding a postseason is ridiculous. The pandemic has done damage everywhere and the loss of the baseball season is another outcome. People need to stop whining and deal with it. If players and owners are unwilling to compromise, it’s everyone’s loss.