6:36pm: An MLBPA announcement confirms the news. Per the release, the league informed the union that it will not schedule a season of over sixty games.
6:30pm: MLB has informed the MLB Players Association that it will not make a new proposal to the union in an effort to resolve the sides’ disagreement over the financial structure of the 2020 season, per Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic (via Twitter).
Just what that means for the potential resumption of play remains to be seen. One might think that commissioner Rob Manfred will simply declare a season length at full pro rata pay — the option that the league has long held in its back pocket, but which brings with it the potential for an open-ended grievance action.
Last we had heard, the league preferred not to take this step. Whether there may be an alternative means of resolving the matter is not immediately clear. Per the report, the league will consider its options over the weekend, which is perhaps yet another indication that the league believes it is well served by allowing time to trickle away.
This latest development comes on the heels of today’s run of worrisome indications that the coronavirus has already made inroads into MLB facilities even before the league has undertaken a resumption effort in earnest. Those reports reflect truly concerning developments. They also play into the hands of the owners that have evidently decided to take a hard line on the 2020 season.
It seemed just days ago that we were finally headed toward resolution on an attempted restart of the MLB campaign. Now, there’s as much uncertainty as ever — greater, perhaps, given the urgent need to launch a season in the immediate future if one is to take place at all.
2020 season is over.
Yup
Yup, whoever here who’es still debating 72 vs 60 games just wants to argue with someone else at this point.
Hint – Just get married and you wont need to log on to get your daily fill
RIP Baseball 2020.
If they call it a season, can they just award the Ranger the WS trophy? Might be the only way my team could ever get one.
Rangers? They take a back seat to the CLEVELAND INDIANS!! Go Tribe, scalp the Rangers. They should have a parade too!! Rangers stole the Senators as well.
Best reply!
Mlb made a series of proposals to the MLBPA without receiving a counter, just consecutive rejections.
Time for MLBPA to make a couple more of their own without waiting for a counter.
The PA did counter, numerous times in fact.
That being said, based on what we heard from some basketball players, baseball players and now seeing in multiple sports, I highly doubt a number of players are eager about rushing back. I think the PA is playing hardball knowing owners won’t give in but really the PA doesn’t want to play either but save face
Yep
That was my thought too. Although a few were saying they wanted to play I don’t think many did. That’s why the negotiations have been so contentious.
Although MLBPA made a couple offers through the process, Mlb had made 3+ consecutive offers without a union counteroffer. Union just denied, then mlb altered the offer, then repeat.
Now let the union make an offer, mlb deny, union repeat with something new 3 or 4 times.
I:’m not sure what you mean “3+ consecutive offers”?
ESPN has a timeline of the formal offers
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29290117/mlb-deal-line-own…
MLB’s first offer May 26- sliding scale, 82 games
MLBPA’s first counter offer May 31- 114 games
MLB’s second offer- June 8- 76 games
MLBPA’s second counter offer- June 9- 89 games
MLB’s third offer- June 12- 72 games, first prorated offer
MLBPA’s “when and where” reply- June 14
MLB”s fourth offer- June 17- 60 games
MLBPA’s counter offer- June 19- 70 games
MLB’s reply- June 19
And that’s where we are at. MLB spent two months posturing and apparently approving an offer for revenue sharing that was never given the players, knowing it was a non starter and would require significant documentation re: revenue.
now that’s a childish way of thinking if you want actual games to happen.
I’d prefer they did. Even though you don’t generally like to argue with yourself, they could say “split the difference on everything we don’t agree on”. Nothing to lose at this point.
Without fans I don’t see the point of a season. Shut it down. Hopefully 2021 will be better for baseball.. I am guessing free agent contracts will be few and far between this off season.
I’ve always said…. they can bicker over the money issues but it won’t matter. COVID will not allow a season to take place. Simple science. And stupidity, maybe wishful thinking on so many parts.
Science would consider that outside of the demographic of sick and elderly, that the virus is not deadly to like 99 percent of people. Are those of us healthy enough to live our lives supposed to stop living for the next 2-3 years until a vaccine? People will be depressed out of their flipping minds, and suicides would take more lives than COVID ever could.
If I could live like this for the rest of my life, nothing to look forward to, nothing to enjoy, not being able to socialize freely, the number of years I would want to live would be zero, We are meant to live, not like this. Intstead of a relative few people dying, we are all dying by being robbed of life. This does not honor the lives of everybody equally, and is capable of destroying everything that makes life worth living basically. Not the virus, the response to it.
My dad died because of the virus and he was 50, and had no pre-existing health conditions. It’s better to be safe than sorry. Get your facts straight MAGA supporter. Keep this baseball-related.
let’s not make it sound like the entire country has been on shutdown. many states have been poor at implementing strong testing, tracing and social distancing measures, many of which are now seeing huge increases in cases.
and secondly, stop thinking of this only in terms of players. those people have lives too outside of baseball. while you may THINK players aren’t at high risk, certainly some of their friends and family likely are. coaches probably are, umpires probably are.
this is the problem. narrow minded thinking amongst people who don’t understand how things spread.
But the vaccine will be available by the end of the year and it will just go away anyway, like magic!
nobody is saying that but it limits the worst case scenario, sort of like, oh I don’t know social distancing, wearing masks, not acting like your Invincible
“Get your facts straight MAGA supporter. Keep this baseball-related.”
I like how you’re telling others to keep it baseball right after making it political.
Corn-a-various.
Corn-teened!
Above and beyond the dysfunctional attempt at labor talks, the news out of Clearwater and Dunedin sealed the deal. See you (maybe) in 2022.
I agree. I thought I’d care but I don’t
MLB is going to loose alot of fan if they dont get there heads out of there butts. Figure it out.
“Figure it out.”
Oh, the irony.
Who cares about a mini season? Figure out how to get an agreement in place for the next CBA. Has to have contingencies but if those talks are more of the same, some fans will never come back, at least not the same way, to the same extent.
2020 sports are done after all these players got the virus, the mlb will die if they allow 2021 to get away from them, they are on life support and the people of America are not goin to get behind the players right now, the owners will still be billionaires and the players will have played themselves
This is ridiculous.
I went to 25 games in person per 1994, zero since…..
People who brag about not changing their minds are losers
Per 1994 what does that mean?
Last time these millionaires and billionaires fought over $.
Hang on tightly.
MLB isn’t going to lose fans because of this. People who really want baseball during a Pandemic will want baseball post pandemic
I see the point you’re making. But let’s not forget the issues with the baseballs last year, followed by the absolute debacle on how the Astros case was handled. Followed by the Boston case taking forever. Followed by the negotiations on the season taking place publicly. Followed by the Yankees letter. On top of 45M people being unemployed. On top of probably that many who have taken significant pay cuts. On top of so many teams tanking for years. I’ll admittedly be back, but will have a massively sour attitude for a while. I can see how all the moving pieces would make the casual fan walk away.
I can see some lower attendance numbers perhaps because of the financial impact but absence makes the heart grow fonder and those who were fans before likely will watch again. let’s remember, there really isn’t much else entertainment wise that’s going on right now.
That ship has sailed.
Tell me it aint true and they are just saying this? When MLB says no, it really means no.
MLB really screwed this up. Both sides could be accused of intransigence, but is clear that the owners are now acting in bad faith. The owners have given the fan base the middle finger.
I would agree with you, but I don’t know what intransigence means.
Whatever truculent means, if it’s good, I’m that.
Read my mind… Lol
It’s clear the owners are.
We just started slowly reopening the country and we are seeing the ramifications.
Nothing like jumping off a cliff and hoping there is water.
The Owners. The union is not protecting it’s players or the game.
how have the owners given them the finger? they’ve made proposals. I mean if they decide to cancel altogether you could make that argument but if they come out Monday and say we are doing 50 games what is your excuse
Greedy players just had to get those 10 extra games. Tony Clark was a mediocre player and is also a mediocre union president. A good president and commish would have settled this long ago.
This isn’t on the players
It’s on both sides
No. Just the owners.
No, it is also on the players, because some of them are whining about the fact that they will not get paid in full.
Their last offer was really reasonable. It’s going to look bad on the players if there is no season because of a 10 game difference. The owners could have also just accepted the 70 game proposal, but here we are.
The players could have just accepted 60 games. But they didn’t.
There is more meat in the players proposal than those ten games. Currently players get 0% of playoff TV revenue. The proposal included a 50% take of TV revenue for the additional playoff games in the 2021 postseason. Ownership was never going to set that precedent, especially with a cba fight coming.
@Javia
The owners could have just offered 70 games but they didn’t.
See how that works?
Which is exactly the point I was making to kwade26, who had made the comment before mine. Did you bother to read the comment I was responding to or not?
See how that works?
Actually they couldn’t without expanding the season or playing multiple double headers. There isn’t enough time left for 70 games. Max is about 67 with a reasonable spring. If they have to do a full set of testing before starting max is probably more like 64 or 65.
Javia – agree 100 percent !!
The players could’ve accepted 60 see how that works? Owners are correct to assume the worst when speaking of losing playoff revenue due to a second wave. There isn’t time for 70 barely 60 and that’s pushing it
They could have fit 70 even in the same time frame if they start about 3 days sooner. They just wanted as few games as possible. 60 games in 71 days is hardly “pushing it”.
this is a business players should not get any tv revenue they make their pay and that should be it
Clark and Manfred actually got together, negotiated, and agreed to a plan. Less than a day later, Clark backed out of that agreement.
It’s on both sides. What happened to “when and where?” The owners conceded to pay.
The when and where was a joke. They are proposing 70 just because they want to keep the door to the grievance open because I’m sure they will file. The owners have always offered the same thing which was around 60 games pay. If the players would have just agreed to the bubble, like every other league. We wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
when and where still stands. Manfred can issue a schedule. When and where was the players telling him “we’re at an impasse, issue the schedule”
The owners went back to the table because:
1. They need to get the players to back off from a grievance
2. Absent an agreement, the owners can not access potential revenue generators such as expanding the playoffs and having ad patches on players.
To get those they need an agreement with the union. Without that, manfred and issue a schedule and prepare to fight a grievance or cancel the season and prepare to fight a grievance.
The players are only going to waive the possibility of grievance and its discovery process for something substantial. That’s not 10 games, but is very much establishing precedent of players getting a cut of playoff TV revenues.
Which, BTW, the owners just got an agreement with tbs to increase tbs’ payment from 350MM to 550MM for an LDS series beginning in 2022. Currently the players get 0% of that money. Their current playoff bonus is built on gate percentage of the minimum number of games the playoffs can be played, regardless of how deep the various series go.
No “when and where” wasn’t a joke. It was the players’ understanding from the March agreement. If the parties couldn’t reach a negotiated solution, the commissioner would set the length of the season where the players’ salary would be prorated based on the number of games played. There was nothing about waiving the right to a grievance or changing the playoff structure. Once the players saw that, they realized they were still in a negotiation, so they countered the proposal..
I didn’t mean a joke in that it wasn’t real. I meant a joke basically saying they could never agree to it. The players are “negotiating” in order to keep the grievance on the table.
Except after Clark and Manfred got together and Mafred told him we caved and agreed to 100% salary for 60 we cannot go to 70 and Clark proposed it anyway. They may have found there way out a grievance there
It’s absolutely on the players. The agreement THEY AGREED TO in March specifically said there will be a renegotiation/reduction of salaries if the games are to be played in empty stadiums. They’re not only now refusing to do that, but refusing to take FULL pay for 60 games. The players are miles away from innocent
I believe that is called ‘negotiation’. It’s what you’re so angry about them not doing, but they’re actually agreeing to renegotiate, so your anger is misplaced at best, moronic at worst.
Its not anger, nor is it renegotiating. They’ve flat out said they won’t take anything less than full proration. Then they got it, and still won’t “just play”
No, the March agreement did not say they had to renegotiate. The agreement said that the two sides would discuss the economic feasibility of playing games in neutral sites or without fans in attendance.
The owners have recognized that players were not required to agree to further salary cuts. There were two other specific areas in the March agreement that provided for increasing revenues: Expanding the playoffs and Extending the regular season. The owners were not required to extend the season any more than the players were required to take further salary cuts.
The players are not blameless here. Each offer they’ve made was not expected to be the final deal. They knew that the owners weren’t going to take their terms. Same with the owners offers.
It said the owners would be willing to play in empty stadiums if there was a reduction of salaries.
And yes, both sides are to blame. And I absolutely agree the players should TRY to get what they can. But the agreement was pretty clear in saying what I stated above, and now the players – like I said, aren’t moving off of “full salary” nor are they ACCEPTING full salary… with that in mind it’s beyond silly, maybe even “moronic” (to steal a word from low iq posters above) to say only the owners are to blame here. It makes no sense
It did NOT say that at all. This is the operative language
“MLB and the union will discuss the economic feasibility of playing games at neutral sites or without fans.”
Economic feasibility does not mean cutting salaries, but if the owners are going to claim that playing more games is not economically feasible, they sure need to be ready to back that up with documentation, which they don’t want to do.
The players also claimed in a letter to Halem
even MLB admits that our March Agreement does not require players to agree to further pay cuts. Indeed, as Mr. Halem agreed in a May 18 letter to Tony Clark: ‘The Association is free to take the position that players are unwilling to accept further reductions.’ Pat Houlihan, MLB legal counsel, similarly acknowledged in his May 22 letter to the Players Association. ‘We agree with the Association that, under the Agreement, players are not required to accept less than their full prorated salary.’’
We are at the stage where 60 is pushing it and to counter at 70 when Manfred said there simply aren’t the days is asinine. Be realistic please. Maybe try for 63 to 65 if you want some kind of hope of an actual agreement but people don’t seem to understand another 10 game on top with expanded playoffs isn’t going to work. They got their full prorated salaries plus forgiveness of the money paid upfront plus playoff revenue sharing. Sign the damn thing before the owners shrink it further. Not all owners were on board with 60 Manfred truly lobbied to get owners on board for 60 but 70 wasn’t happening. If the players dont agree I bet they go less games than 60 and cannot change the playoff structure and might not get forgiveness on original payment. Also the good faith grievance shifts in the owners favor after mlb came all this way caving to what was supposed to be the main issue
Owners could maybe counter at 62 and help mlbpa save a little face but that’s it. Give them one day to agree or implement a season or cancel
Yes it is. Lock them out and bri g on the replacements
There’s nothing greedy about 70 games, when their last offer was 89 games and the owners last offer was 72 games. And the 60 game offer didn’t bring any more money than the 83 percent of 72 games.
By that reasoning if the previous offer was 140 games, then 120 games would be not greedy.. Previous proposal has nothing to do with it. MLBPA foolishly rejected the last offer they will get Blew it just like they blew the draft.
Not at all. 89 games was reasonable. The owners offered 82.
They just don’t want to pay the players, period.
Eighty nine games was not reasonable.
The season should end by the end of October. We are now seeing how easily this spreads player to player.
We have so much more information than we had just a week ago.
I read some of the takes here and they blow my mind. It’s like the virus is a cold. No… Get the virus, you miss a month, spread the virus, and it’s over.
Maybe these owners can outsource baseball to the Bangledesh or Chinese slave labor camps.
Well said my man.
Patrick time is ticking. you can’t get an offer from the owners, say no and then meet their game number 5-7 days later. that’s 5-7 games lost.
Well, there’s still time to report by June 29 and both sides have been told to be ready for that.
The players have to ask themselves whether 6% of their salaries is worth it.
– For a player making minimum salary, that’s about $ 33,800
– for a player making 10 million, that’s $600K
– The grievance is worth a lot to the union, but to each player who has an average career of about 4 years? Maybe not so much.
– Plus some playoff pool revenue, plus the advance write off
And if it’s worth taking the 60 games, what other points do they dig in their heels on?
And if you’re the owners, and the players come back with a counter of say 60 games but still want the larger playoff pool or a cut of next year’s TV revenue for the expanded playoffs, do you just say no and head to a grievance? I would think not. If they get 60 games at prorated pay, that’s their magic number and all else is just frills.
MLB has greatly improved it’s position should they go to a grievance hearing just by running down the clock, and could help it more by locking in 60 games. But then, if you’re going to do that, why not get a deal with the extra playoff revenue?
Personally, I’d be ready to blow the whole facking thing up over the proposal to start extra innings with a runner on second base. I HATE that rule. HATE. But that’s just me.
Look, not taking sides, but it’s not about the regular season money for the owners – the longer the season goes on, the later the playoffs start and it pushes the postseason into dangerous territory with the 2nd wave of influenza. And the playoffs are really the cash cow for the owners in terms of.TV money.
The owners care about making sure a post season happens. The Union couldn’t care less if the post season happens.
The players want their in season money. The owners want their post season money.
The season can’t start up for at least three more weeks. There are 16 teams making the playoffs. You need long series and days off to prevent the spread. And of course it ends in October.
The math isn’t hard. But to some it is.
60 games in 71 days leaves room for more games, plus the season could start a few days earlier or end a few days later than Sept 27 and still get the post season over by Oct 31.
Players want to win the World Series. They play the post season for less money per game than the regular season. They’ve offered two years of enhanced playoffs. They just want as many games as possible.
I am doubt that, if they had offered less than 114 or 89 games, they’d have gotten more than 60 out of the owners at full pay. But with the hardline that MLB was taking, they couldn’t make a reasonable offer.
The Virus has already hit 5 players on one team & maybe more that have not been reported yet. This season is over, it will not start. The Owners now have what they need to shut it down & by doing so, I believe they will owe the players nothing more now.
Sad, very Sad
Yes and the virus is called greed
Greedy owners had to insist on players taking a pay cut on top of a prorated salary because they want the players to share in their in the financial losses of this season but don’t want to let the players share in the financial growth of the game.
False
that is a strange take
mstrchef13, why would anyone pay $1-$2.5 billion for a business and then have to split the profits with their employees? If the players want a share of the profits then they can buy a team of their own. Didn’t Jeter do that? Is he sharing his profits? Isn’t it funny how something he probably DEMANDED as a player is something he will NEVER DO as an owner. Maybe that should tell us something.
Arnold Tony Clarke said over e week ago, tells us where and when. MLB responded with more games for a reduced salary. They had an agreement for pro rated pay not reduced pro rated Pay.
– 82 games at sliding scale = ~33% salary
– 50 games at prorated pay = ~33% salary
– 76 games at 75% prorated pay = (drumroll) ~33% salary
It all comes back to the same place. MLB keeps making the same offer in different forms.
You know the last offer was 60 games at full pro rata, not that facts matter to you.
M Hayworth
The offer wasn’t for a sixty game season with standard playoff format, and you know that.
Kinda like you keep making this skewed-truth post on every article, including the “drumroll”?
The players were fine with 50 games, and as soon as they made that clear, Manfred flew to Arizona to talk to Clark in an attempt to expand playoffs, be free of grievance liability, and to increase advertising on uniforms.
Tony said “Yeah, sure we can negotiate to sweeten this deal for you, but you’re going to pay for it. Ten games is the price for $600mm in playoff revenue for expansion”
Does it really matter? With what’s happening, there’s no way to ensure training can stay open for every team.
Just cancel the dang season and blame it on Corona. This is going to set back baseball until they agree to a new CBA.
If. not when. because most of the billionaires dont want a new cba.
They don’t have a choice, the CBA expires when it expires. If they want the best players the world has to offer to play their game for them, they’ll need a new cba after next season.
Roguesaw – nowhere else in the world will pay the wages MLB pays, not even close.
Go to Japan or korea, see what you earn.
If somewhere else paid more, international kids would go there instead, as would usa amateurs.
On the contrary ATLSoxFan. Korea and Japan have repeatedly proven they will pay more. You’re hung up on the Trout’s and Harper’s. The vast majority on MLB players do not make anywhere close to that kind of money. And while they may not be Trout’s or Harper’s, the vast majority of MLB players are the best baseball players in the world. Guys like Eric Thames and Matt Murton, who struggled to find major league deals at minimum salaries, went to Korea/Japan, got paid to dominate those leagues. In 2015 Matt Murton made 3.8MM in Japan. League minimum was 507,500. When he came back to the States he had to accept a minor league deal.
Further, Japan and Korea are not the only options. If the CBA is not renewed, and the owner/union relationship deteriorates, you can bet investors here in the states will look to create a competitor and gobble up MLB free agents. It doesn’t have to be a new league either. Money could get poured into an indy league or even minor league baseball. The minors are a separate entity from MLB that enters into an affiliate deal with MLB in exchange for access to players controlled by MLB. This relationship is also in the toilet right now and that contract is also expiring. If MiLB doesn’t reenter into a contract with MLB, and there’s no cba in place, why wouldn’t billionaire investors pour money into the MiLB’s established infrastructure and chase MLB players?
If what you claim is true, all MLB players would follow the money.
No, the Korean and Japanese teams are restricted by nationality quotas a d only hand out a handful of elevated salary contracts to lure what American players they can overseas.
Japanese/Korean teams cannot support a mlb payroll, and couldnt hire the 200 or so guys making over 10m a season.
You make more money in mlb period. To get to the big contracts guys play American baseball first, sort of a paying your dues arrangement.
It’s capitalism, if the asian leagues paid the same or more the mlb guys would be there, instead of complaining or retiring.
What a bunch of clowns. 65 games, meet in the middle. Guess common sense isn’t prevalent in baseball.
You cant mathematically get in 65 games.
How not? 162 games in 181 days is a normal season. So 19 days off for almost triple the games! 65 games in 70 days is still doable even without double headers. Throw a couple of those in and bam! 65 games at least
How Not- Covid 19
64. Same divisions. Play each opponent 16 times, pretty much like normal.
Meh, every day the owners leak a different sentiment through their puppets in the media so who really knows?
COVID-19 a bigger issue than the union and the owners not getting on the same page right now.
Covid is a joke unless you’re higher risk. Please stop!!
Really ask the 20 and 30 somethings that are getting it now. Clueless
@ chief wahoo
Who are these players on the Phillies that are not “young and healthy.?”
It’s truly amazing how many people simply don’t get it. Not being high-risk for death doesn’t make you not high-risk to catch it, spread it, and potentially infect dozens more–each of whom could infect dozens (or even hundreds) more themselves.
By the numbers, that most certainly has lead to deaths and will lead to more–unnecessarily more.
The ignorance is beyond maddening. It’s one thing if it were only themselves, but the fact that innocent people suffer from their stupidity should be criminal.
30 University of Texas football players disagree, as do 27 Clemson players and several from Alabama. Your statement is ludicrous. The fact that the Florida and Arizona facilities are being closed now means that the virus never left. The unfortunate re-opening of the economy without taking the proper precautions has led to the increased outbreaks in Florida, Texas, California and Texas.
Bottom line is that even if the owners and players agree to play the Covid-19 virus will not allow it. The players didn’t sign up to risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones just so you can watch MLB on television. Way too much risk.
I get a flu shot every year and tested negative. so there’s that
all I got from this is you don’t believe any media or actual experts and you come to the comments section of mlbtr to get your “facts”.
It takes a while to sort out the biases of certain media outlets. The facts are out there, but they’re often buried under piles of spin. Usually, you can follow the money.
The owners have stalled since March to try and run out the clock so that they could pay the players as few games as possible, but still try to grab the playoff money.
Manfred knows dam well that Clark did not agree to a 60 game schedule with total salaries the same as MLB’s last proposal. He wanted to improve the offer in the case of a grievance. They proposed 72 games just five days earlier, but were “livid” when the players came back with 70 games.
The players have been no angels in these talks, but what Manfred and the owners are doing is a disgrace. All for the love of money.
Please tell us about the WHOLE meeting you must’ve attended?
They said there was trading back and forth. You also know new terms we hadn’t heard before like forgiveness of part of the salary advance was included.
What you DON’T know is everything mlb threw in as a sweetener in exchange for proposing fewer games. And vice versa.
BUT, is it unthinkable for one party to get mad if some of what they felt was agreed to ONLY to move the needle to a certain point has the other side immediately move the needle back the other way, keep the concessions, and not offer more sweetners of their own back?
I think not.
You’ve also got spositive tests becoming more widespread threatening the postseason viability which is the big chance for owners to offset expenses at this point.
Players deserve no season and hopefully to fall into bankruptcies over this one.
The $33 million forgiveness was logical because several players on minimum salary have already been paid all they were going to get with only 60 games prorated salary.
So MLB reduced the playoff pool from 50 million to 25 million, shifted that 25 million to the forgiveness and added $8M to it. The players countered with keeping the 50 M playoff pool and keeping the forgiveness. These details are all in the published offers- whatever was negotiated.
The difference from the owners’ previous offer was just that more regular season money was guaranteed, but taken away at the back end. All but $8 million.
That position makes no sense…
So the owners tossed in 8m just…. because? Without wanting anything back?
So the owners should want to shift risk into reclaiming money in the postseason (not guaranteed to play due to virus if they resume) and pay extra during a cashflow negative period (regular season which WOULD play) just because? Shifted rish, time-value of money, and interest paid on funds borrowed to make regular season payrolls all have costs and value that aren’t given up without concessions.
After hearing all about owners need to reap the downside of the bargain they sign even if revenues disappoint, all of a sudden owners should forgive salary advances…. just because? Because it ‘makes sense’, because it’s ‘fair’, because guys couldn’t budget their money and now would work for free because of an agreement they willingly entered to get a couple hundred thousand upfront and couldnt make it last? If player share of revenue from the contract they signed isn’t enough because season revenue disappoints… tough right?
Just like how players shouldn’t reduce off prorate salaries for owners, owners shouldn’t have to exceed prorated salaries for players which is the effect of forgiveness.
Shouldn’t players have to defer that forgiveness at 6% interest? Isn’t that what MLBPA said is fair earlier?
None of it is ‘logical’ where it should happen just because.
ALL of it was part and parcel of trading concessions, something Tony and the MLBPA tore up then kept in their counterproposal. Owners have every right to reject that and scoff.
Hey- I’m not advocating for or against any of these positions.
When I read that MLB came up with an extra $33M plus $25M for a player’s pool, it’s fair to point out that the previous proposals from both sides included $50 M players pool. There is also some money in the advertising patches on uniforms. You can do the math however you like, but those are the facts from the published proposals.
I think that I have accurately described the rationale for the $33M forgiveness on the advance, but I’m not inside their heads. They want to gain support for the proposal among a large number of union members. If you have a different rationale for it, please share it. But it’s in there.
If the objective is to get a deal, both negotiators need to take some things back to their constituents that they can support. The $33M benefits a huge percentage of the players.
Manfred doesn’t have an easy job selling the deal to 30 billionaires who are used to getting their way their entire lives, either. This would explain why the numbers keep moving around and still wind up with the same total payout to the players. I’m just pointing out that where Manfred giveth with one hand, he taketh away with the other. That’s been his M.O. since he’s been negotiating for MLB.
Here’s another theory. Manfred flew to Arizona, where Tony Clark lives, and met with him personally. He took the lawyers out of the room. Once again, Clark got his ass kicked. We don’t know exactly how they left it, but if there’s any chance that Clark left the impression with Manfred that he was accepting the proposal or that he would put it to the players, then much of this recent spat is on him. I think he’s in over his head with a very skilled negotiator. But that’s just me.
The players did not help matters with some of their proposals- 114 games, season ending in November, 6% loans and only if there is no post season,etc. All these things were non starters, and they had been told this before the offers were made. Just as the owners made three proposals knowing the players were stuck on fully prorated salaries.
In the end, I don’t think it mattered what the players offered. The owners are stuck on a given payout. They have moved only in the amount of money that will be guaranteed without playoffs. The players’ most recent proposal tries to pocket those guarantees and put some money back in the post season.
FWIW- I don’t think that Clark expected the owners to go for many of the things they threw into the last offer, In the end, it’s about getting as much as they can, but the owners aren’t going past 60 games.
Patrick –
“if there’s any chance that Clark left the impression with Manfred that he was accepting the proposal or that he would put it to the players, then much of this recent spat is on him. I think he’s in over his head with a very skilled negotiator. But that’s just me.”
This is one of the rare points where I 100% agree with you on.
I don’t think Manfred left thinking the whole deal was done, BUT I DO think Manfred left thinking certain terms were implied to be settled – such as having an understanding that the Owners were adding value elsewhere in the playoffs tv revenue and advance forgiveness – in exchange for a lower game count to limit regular season cashflow issues.
I also would believe that Manfred may have been led to think the full membership would vote on the deal they put together in the sitdown.
It wouldn’t be surprising Manfred left with the impression Clark understood 60 prorate salary regular season games was the red line and the other stuff was fluff to make up the difference.
I do NOT think Clark has any understanding how to tell his membership ‘No’ and will put whatever they ask for into a proposal – regardless of how inflammatory or low gain it is. I don’t see him as understanding the concept of momentum building, and definitely no concept of promoting goodwill.
The owners have stalled since March to try and run out the clock so that they could pay the players as few games as possible,
Heck.. what am I thinking, we should have had baseball in April. You guys are just so much smarter than the entire world.
You know so much more than the entire world and you know it before everyone else does.
The owners first proposal was given in late May, knowing that the players would not take less than prorated salaries. This is known to anyone who has been following.
You know very well there was no chance of baseball in April, so why even go there?
it’s June and ballparks are closing so April, may, june, doesn’t matter. I mean you could’ve move forward with a plan in may to play 120 games but then would have needed to figure out contingency plans a through z
Patrick
– 82 games at sliding scale = ~33% salary
– 50 games at prorated pay = ~33% salary
– 76 games at 75% prorated pay = (drumroll) ~33% salary
It all comes back to the same place. MLB keeps making the same offer in different forms.
Thank you.
60 games at full pro-rated salaries = 37%
Plus forgiveness of prepaid salaries for lower paid players. So the owners stepped up and increased their offer even though this guaranteed they lose over $1B on the season collectively, but that is still not good enough for the players. They’ll get what they deserve: 0 games and 4% of their pay. The players overplayed their cards. Owners will lose less by cancelling the season altogether, but in their hearts they know this is not the right thing to do for the long term interests of the game. I truly believe this 60 game proposal is their best and final offer. Time to call it season and move on.
Correct on the 37%, which is the same as 83% of 72 games.
They reduced the playoff pool from $50M to $25M, and shifted that to part of the $33M write off.
Both of these move more money to the reg season column, not dependent on playoffs.
The owners lose about $900 million in playoff TV revenue including the expanded playoffs, plus expanded playoffs next year. Plus they lose whatever from advertising on jerseys. It’s huge in europe.
Just call it. Opening Day 2021 only 9 1/2 months away.
There will be no 2021.
Yes there will be
What year comes after December 31, 2020?
I think the owners have been craven snakes during this process, but if the players won’t waive their right to file a grievance, there will not be a season. Period.
The owners are potentially facing the prospect of having acrimonious talks with labor, leaving all involved bloodied with a new CBA looming only to have the season shut down due to the virus anyway.
To then lose a grievance that pays the players a full year’s salary for a season that didn’t happen anyway is too risky.
No rational person would agree to that possibility.
They should not waive the grievance for 60 games.
New positive tests and the like, with fall disease seasons approaching, new grounds to just hang it up.
Cold weather baseball depends on Florida, Texas, and Arizona for viability…
Where the huge spikes in case numbers coming from?
Hang it up.
Goodnight, sweetheart, well, it’s time to go.
Goodnight, sweetheart, well, it’s time to go.
I hate to leave you, but I really must say, Goodnight, sweetheart, goodnight.
I really hate MLB right now, they are taking a huge heaping dump on the fans at the worst possible time.
first your father than MLB. who’s next?
Who cares. They will use covid nonsense as the final excuse anyways. All nonsense.
Yes, total nonsense. But that’s how it will go. Dr. Fauci and his overseers will have their way.
you’re a moron. just open your eyes
We are witnessing the diminishment of the Grand Old Game of baseball by lesser-lights such as Manfred, Clark, and Boras…very sad to witness.
Call it a day–MLB has whiffed on an opportunity to bring some joy and fresh air into our souls this Summer–shame on you all.
Both sides are to blame, no doubt about it.
Blame for acting like idiots – No doubt
For no baseball 2020- Nope, that was all Corona
Have a feeling people are going to come outta this like it was one side or the others fault for their being no baseball this year which isnt the case
The only reason the Owners proposed this last proposal is because they needed the players to agree, no grievance filing on either side because they knew deep down this season would not be concluded, the Virus was going to shut it down sooner or later.
They just wanted out of the grievance, Plain & Simple.
No, neither side is to blame. They aren’t the evil ones who released the bogus virus into the world for whatever exact reasons they were compelled to do it at this time. Economic reset? Change of Government? Mass vaccinations? 5G installations while cities and schools are emptied out? Probably a combination of twisted goals that will take years of research by the alternative media to figure out. Because Fox and CNN aren’t going to spill the beans, that’s for sure.
Reflex in the sky
Warn you you’re gonna die
Storm coming, you better hide
From the atomic tide
Flashes in the sky
Turns houses into sties
Turns people into clay
Radiation, minds decay
Robot minds of robot slaves
Lead them to atomic graves
Plastic flowers, melting sun
Fading moon falls upon
Dying world of radiation
Victims of mad frustration
Burning globe of obscene fire
Like electric funeral pyre
Buildings crashing down
To earth’s cracking ground
Rivers turn to wood
Ice melt into blood
Earth lies in deathbed
Clouds cry for the dead
Terrifying rain
Is a burning pain
(Electric Funeral)
(Electric Funeral)
(Electric Funeral)
(Electric Funeral)
you get some really good service from that 5G network through your tin foil hat
That Orange Kool-aid you are drinking has rotted your little brain. Calling Covid-19 a hoax is idiotic. At Last check over 117,000 confirmed deaths have been recorded due to this “hoax”. Sorry to tell you but the virus is not going away by itself.
60 games is an exhibition season. Now, I’m fine with an exhibition season, just to turn on occasionally because I really like baseball. But it’s nothing more than that. Leader boards, individual performances, who gets into the playoffs. and the legitimacy of the playoff results are going to be ****.
The Dodgers made the playoffs based on 57 first half games in 1981. Was 1981 an exhibition season?
In 1981 they had a total of 8 teams of the playoffs. Not 60 games to find sixteen teams. Not a comparable…
Totally agree with you.
The longer the owners wait the better the chance they get the exact amount of games they want scheduled. So they consider their options over the weekend and there goes a couple more days and a couple more days to getting what they want.
Manford could have stepped in weeks ago but he is doing exactly what the owners want.
Waiting. Waiting until there is only enough time left for 50-60 games.
That will make for a watered down season and really not worth playing.
I don’t know what to think anymore but perhaps they should just cancel.
This has been a terrible situation and it gets worse by the day.
Does it really matter anymore.
-Several teams have shut down their facilities today, and more will follow.
-The Phillies are seeing a significant viral outbreak, and that’s with no baseball being played.
-Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, Georgia and several other states that combine to host a majority of the major league teams are seeing major viral spikes that aren’t going away anytime soon.
Where can they play? Where the hell can a safe bubble be established? It’s sure not happening in Florida and/or Arizona. And this isn’t just about the players this is about umpires and coaches and grounds crew and trainers and I don’t even know how much other support staff. You can bet a lot of those people are in high risk categories.
There is not going to be a season, folks. Time to get used to it, get over it, and move on.
Correct…..these people just want to argue at this point-
It is their normalcy, they know no better
I grew up since I was four years old with this game. And in the last 12 months major-league baseball has done more to distance themselves from all of us true fans than they ever have. Between the botched Astros scandal, to this travesty of negotiations. I have no faith that the current leaders of the game will do anything to improve it and get fans back. I have lost interest in the game and I’m more than content not following it going forward. What should’ve been used as a avenue to get more fans to watch during a time when no sports and no activities were going on, major league baseball and its players have chosen to turn their backs on America. Such a shame.
To be fair if they started they would just be shutting down right now anyways or maybe even before – There would have been dozens and dozens of + tests and probably even a couple small outbreaks with teams
That doesnt take away from the disgusting actions by both parties but 2020 was never happening. Hopefully the time off and public scorn will bring about new reforms and better leadership 2021
You are exactly right, if they started, they would have been shut down by now.
Just look at all the news in the last five days.
We are just now reopening our country.
That’s your problem right there. Watching the news and believing it. Alternative media is your only hope to get the actual facts, instead of propaganda.
what is real media if everyone is alternative media?
Just like both sides have said in the past?
It’s really over isn’t it?
Even Yogi would say it’s over.
I was going to say something along those lines.. and the fat lady just caught a cab
Always the chance the struts blew out when she climbed in and is stuck at the curb.
You know she ain’t waddling to the airport, the players could use their speed and athleticism to run her down and carry her back
at least I don’t have to watch the Mariners and Marlins have another horrible season
No baseball this season.
I would say it is Nancy Polosi’s fault gor the whole charade. Should have finished spring training and started the season in March. Foolish delay based on a hoax.
My 34 year old cousin died from covid-19 two weeks ago. So I’m sure you know what I think of your hoax comment.
Sorry for your loss.
Other conditions?
Death rate below 60 y0 is very low
It’s not just sad to lose someone but it’s also tragic for someone so young
Agreed, a big charade is exactly what it is. But it’s not Nancy’s fault. She’s only in the regular government, not the Permanent Government that actually runs the country and the world.
this is possibly the dumbest comment on this thread and that’s saying something.
Bummer.
Be honest with yourselves, does anyone really care at this point? I mean, clearly MLB & MLBPA don’t.
But seriously, I love baseball more than anything that doesn’t have a heartbeat and I am over it at this point. I honesty don’t know that I’ll care enough to even pay attention this season if they play. And if they don’t, cool. I have six hours or more free every day like I have the last few months.
But let’s quit with the dog and pony show. Make an announcement one way or the other and be done with it.
I totally get where you’re coming from, but for me….I’ll take any baseball over no baseball. I don’t care about the semantics. I’ll watch sandlot baseball (ok, no. I’ll watch for a minute and then want to play)
At the end of the day, I don’t care about the money, the reasons for the back and forth negotiations. Just give me baseball.
The owners are fighting for what works for them, the players are doing the same. It’s how it all works in the real world.
Definitely. I don’t care why I don’t have baseball. I just feel like we’ve all moved on for the most part. I can see a lot of fans losing interest. Even us long running fans.
From the beginning, Manfred has been in a no win situation. He has the power to restart the game, but if he doesn’t get the unions okay, he opens up the possibility of a grievance. One thing that is often overlooked are the reports of certain owners not wanting a season at all. Apparently as many as 8. For obvious reasons none of them have gone on the record. Is It possible that Manfred has dragged on the negotiations so as to not suffer the embarrassment of having a minority of owners reject the plan. I believe they need 24 of the 30 owners to ratify any plan. This way, no owner has to vote against opening. We fans have been arguing over the salaries that we are forgetting the major financial issues-no fans in the stands. Whether players get 100% of 80 games or 70%of 80 games really isn’t that significant. However losing out on 30,000 fans a night really can put a dent in an owners piggybank. For many mid market teams with good attendance, small tv market, and growing payroll (Minnesota?), fans in the stands is essential. Of course now that players are testing positive for the virus, we will be back to square one. I don’t see baseball coming back this year. Have my doubts about the NBA and NHL also. NFL maybe, but in a bubble. If the colleges don’t open in September, forget about college football
I’m sure Baltimore (Davis), Dodgers (Price and Betts), Houston (Verlander, Grienke, sign stealing), Angels (Pujols, Trout, Upton, Rendon) to name a few are more than happy to skip the season and not pay the big contracts for a year.
Actually don’t agree on the Orioles. Orioles would actually be in better shape than many teams. Low payroll ( Davis notwithstanding), poor attendance so no fans wouldn’t hurt them as much. Not to mention they own the TV rights to the Orioles and Nationals ( which annoys the Nationals, but that’s a whole other issue). Owning a regional network with a low payroll puts the Orioles in better position than most teams
Most lower payroll teams won’t be as bad off as the bigger market teams. They typically will lose less revenue from having no fans, less from local TV deals.
And Baltimore (Cobb) also
Just cancel 20 and 21 and use the time to negotiate the next CBA
Cancel 2021 right now? God, that’s an idiotic statement. You don’t really like baseball much, do ya?
A total debacle.
They should have all agreed to play 50 games, worked out the money squabbles, and had the post season wrapped up entirely by the end of October.
Greed ruined baseball.
At this point just end it man. It’s ridiculous.
It’s pretty clear that the owners’ strategy all along has been to delay and obfuscate, to stretch this out as long as possible in order to keep the season as short as possible. That’s why negotiations didn’t start in earnest until late May. But I here we are, going into late June, and there are still so many moving parts and issues to be resolved. If there is no season, they will blame it h COVID. That may be the reason for all these COVID stories all of the sudden. I’m not disregarding the health aspects surrounding 2020 (or the risks) but I’m not sure everyone is going to buy that excuse. Not sure I will.
I definitely won’t be buying that excuse for baseball or anything else.
sounds like you don’t buy anything
All a joke! Isnt it simple? Players dont play NO pay? NO revenue for teams and owner. NO games is a LOsE LOSE for everyone. This is completely turning me off to baseball.
like you won’t come crawling back when baseball returns. #backslider
Man at this point I’m starting to really not care If there is a season this year I’m just really worried about how they’re gonna Figure out how next year’s draft order is gonna be Put together I would not mind if they just kept the same Order from this year because I’m a Tigers fan and they would get the number one pick again lmao
We can’t even bridge a 10 game gap, what a joke!! At this point let them all sit out for a year. Serves them all right!!!
honestly it might not even be an issue if no other sport can start back up this year. all other 3 sports seem to be headed towards simmilar issues, so i dont think it hurts baseball too badly. bullet dodged.
back up the truck
Man I wanted to see Mookie in Dodger blue next to Belli.
Crapola!
.
Some very good players who are young but not super young, are going to be losing at least one of their few remaining prime years.
CANCEL THE DAMN SEASON, YOU IDIOTS.
I posted this on another article earlier today, but it’s more appropriate to this article:
The owners and players are acting like young children. Literally. And this happens every time there is any kind of labor dispute or negotiation going on. Like a child that knows that he will not get dessert until he finishes his vegetables, yet every night will cry at the dinner table for 20 minutes until mom picks up his plate and sends him to bed without dessert. The child, thinking “oh, mom’s serious this time!” will then eat his vegetables immediately so he can get his dessert. This is what the players and owners do. Instead of hammering out all their nonsense well in advance, they drag their feet for weeks and months, the equivalent of crying at the dinner table every night. While they cry, the fans keep voicing their frustrations but both sides still won’t eat their vegetables until they both realize how bad they look and what a PR disaster they’ve caused and are thinking “oh, the fans are serious this time!” and immediately have a sense of urgency which should have been there the whole time. And this happens EVERY time during any sort of labor dispute they have. My message to the owners and players (not that they’d listen) is this: After the 2021 season is over and before the current CBA officially expires – eat your damn vegetables!
If I was player with little major league service time and earning around the minimum salary, I would not happy about the prospect of less than prorated pay when half my pay for the year is already gone.
Maybe I missed it, but haven’t seen rich veterans advocating for these players.
Well, if they don’t reach some agreement and that $33 million forgiveness out of the original $170 million falls through, there will be a bunch of players who stand to get nothing additional or close to it from 60 games of prorated salary.
Kind of how if players dont reduce their prorated salaries, or, if they insist on too many games, then there’s owners who stand to gain nothing from playing a 2020 season.
Wow, amazing how you adopt in favor of players the very core argument you’ve spent months trying to tear apart when owners make it.
Now the union can decide to accept the owners last offer or the owners will implement the minimum season allowing any players who don’t like it to opt out for one season.
It’ll be funny to see if the union makes a statement or goes nuclear instead of taking that last offer with some small adjustments.
I’m not sure the owners would entertain any adjustments.
They should if they get 60 games, rather than throw the baby out with the bath water. That’s a nice chunk of revenue from expanded playoffs.
The owners would be happy to make some small adjustments.
One day the players will understand that the word “adjustments” doesn’t mean “more money for me”
Reading all of the proposals makes it clear that MLB Owners are much more sophisticated than MLBPA. They have a CBA and are using it – Force Majeure to invoke the per game payments (players didn’t give anything here),reach a quick but flawed March agreement which addressed players immediate pain point (cash flow for lowerer paid players) with $170MM, stake out their concerns (lack of fan revenue, uncertainty of their cash cow i.e. playoff revenue actually being paid) agree to revisit things if indeed no fans are in attendance.
Lots of back and forth with players not wanting to recognize owners concerns about lost fan revenues, owners rehashing same offer multiple ways, but not increasing the overall payout. Man fried finally saddled up to meet with Clarke in person and they make some progress. Man fried characterized it as “… good meeting with a framework for an agreement… “. The idiot Clarke spouts out that no we haven’t agreed to 60 number of games. Total idiot and amateur. Irrespective of not being 100% done or in agreement on the number of games the smart response is ” .. yes we made good progress, we acknowledge each sides concerns, have added several sources of revenue for both sides and mainly need to agree on total games. I feel we’re close and expect that Rob wants to reach closure as much as I do. “. There’s no way in hell Rob turns down 65 games in that scenario. Xx number of games as double headers so the season ends ~ September 25. < see Rob I heard you. You asked for September 27. But give me a few more games and we'll get it done before then. Yes we'll wave the grievance, take play off revenue, forgiveness of some of the $170MM. Oh, hey, with the extra double headers we'll need a few more players. Let's bump the roster limit to 33 players and keep it all year. "Shake"
Goodbye 2020, 2021 and 2022 seasons I guess we will see the new kids playing in 2023 if Boras allows it.
At this point it really seems like one of two things… one or both sides don’t actually want to play a season at all. Or second the players really do just want the “where and when” situation to come to fruition – either because they’re goal all along was to file a grievance or just because that’s the situation they prefer to happen. Because no two sensible parties would essentially end negotiations when they were literally just 10 games apart — like that’s just not logical. So either one side or possibly both – have some reason that no deal is better than a deal for them or one side or the other doesn’t actually want there to be a season in 2020. Otherwise they’d stop the back and fourth of “we’re done negotiating… oh wait here’s another offer… okay we’re done negotiating… oh wait…” charade.
I’m sure some players want to get going. Otherwise why would they be a spring training facilities getting ready. Just stay home and eat Ding Dongs and drink Mountain Dew all day and become diabetic.
What most people fail to realize is, if they sign a contract that states they can not file a grievance, and the season does not complete because of the Virus, the players only get paid for the number of games they manage to play. With players already catching the Virus, the owners could call the season before they even play the first official game of the year.
Then Players Are Screwed. There is no way they should sign any document forfeiting their ability to file a grievance.
The way that I read it, at least insofar as the clause “as many games as possible” is the grounds for a grievance, that applies to the commissioner setting a schedule unilaterally. So, if they agree on a schedule, there can be no grounds for a grievance on that basis.
If they have some other grounds for a grievance, such as the owners refusing to negotiate over expanding the season past Sep 27 (which I think is a weak case) that could be brought, but could be waived also.
The March agreement where they agreed to prorated salaries sealed the deal on losing pay if games are canceled. They gave up the right to bring an action for further salary payments. In exchange, they got service time and a $170 million non refundable advance.
Patrick,
Someone else has stated in another thread that there is a clause stating that if there is a National Disaster, contracts do not have to be paid. So, if players do contract the Virus, that should give the owners enough leverage to shut down the season because the Virus has already hit the players. Now if the Virus does not spread to more players fast, they might get it started, but if more get infected after it starts, it could be shut down & owners would be free of any more payments.
So if the players agree to a deal where they forfeit their ability to file a grievance and the season ends because of the Virus, the players will not be paid past the amount of games played plus they loose their ability to file a grievance.
The players would be stupid to sign anything that forfeits their grievance because I just do not think the players will be able to stay uninfected through any proposed season.
That is just my personal opinion on the season making it to completion, If it starts, I doubt many games will be played before it is shut down totally.
As for my legal statements, I know you know the answers better than me.
This season is over. Silver lining for a few teams tho as i believe the league said teams will keep there draft positions if thats the case, so det, bal, Miami, KC and my jays get that at least. Also Grichuk’s contract goes down from 12ish a year to 8.3
Why won’t the MLBPA compromise? Literally none of the 3 safety conditions in the original 80-game proposal had been met. The current contract needs to be redone.
I don’t think it matters at this point since the league is shutting down all training facilities for a deep cleaning. Depending how long this takes you are going to lose more days–which is important if you want to end the season by Halloween.
I wish these conversations were never had publicly. Not to this level. This is a brutal battle and has pissed off just about everybody.
It’s not the 10 extra games the players are asking for that have the owners upset. It’s the ask to split 2021 playoff tv revenue 50/50 that makes this a non starter. Playoff revenues are what makes these teams ‘profitable’ from an operating profit perspective. Financially, nearly every team loses money each year from an accounting perspective. Look at the Braves last year, $37M in operating profits and -$50M Net Income after depreciation and amortization. I believe playoff revenues from broadcasting last year was around $1.1B,which equates to $37M per team if it is split equally. Now the players want half that money next year? No way the owners will agree to that even if the players say they are okay with 50 games this season. It will never happen.
The union has refused a revenue sharing plan multiple times because it would result in a salary cap. Now they are asking for full pay AND revenue sharing of the most profitable piece of the business? Who’s being unreasonable now? So sick of the MLBPA. By far the worst union in all of sports.
I think the players know they weren’t getting half the TV revenue from 2021 playoffs.
The owners are not of one mind. They are 30 very controlling individuals. Just as the players are 780 different players on the roster at a given time.
Fwiw I don’t think the players were asking for 50% of 2021 playoff tv revenue. I believe the ask was for 50% of TV revenue for the additional playoff games generated from expanded the playoffs from ten teams to 16 for the 2021 postseason. The owners would keep all that tv money for 2020, players accepting a 50MM playoff pool, and players would receive the same formula for playoff shares and no TV money for the 2021 playoff games that would have been played anyway if the playoffs were not expanded. Huge difference in total money asked for. But this issue isn’t the money so much as the precedent. Owners would/should never agree to yielding playoff tv money to the players. The kind of return the owners would need for that should be nothing short of revenue split and and salary cap.
IDK, If I were the head of the MLBPA, I would just go ahead and file that grievance on Monday morning. That is where it’s headed anyways.
10 extra games = 6% of salaries. For a majority of the MLBPA membership, that’s not much after already getting an advance.
The Grievance is worth more now, knowing this year will be shut down due to the Virus. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Players Union already knew the players were sick & thought the season would not be completed and that is why they jacked up their counter offer so high.
I was thinking the opposite. If the virus wipes out other sports, any claim for damages would be more speculative. The discovery would go forward with any grievance, but convincing an arbitration panel that they lost money when games would have been canceled anyway is a tougher case to make.
And they proposed 70 games because that’s about the max that could be played in that time frame.
10 extra games are 253m extra in salaries, plus 150x (10 ‘games’ 15 matchups per ‘game’) whatever per-game production costs are for workers, stadium costs, covid protocols, etc, etc, etc
I could easily see that costing 700m in real world money. 3m per matchup in overhead would be 450m, add to salaries.
You simply cannot waive aside expenses of scale as deminimis without projecting outwards.
Well, with reports still coming in of players testing positive, a grievance would certainly be interesting.
Bob Nightengale
Major League Baseball will close all spring training sites in Arizona and Florida for deep cleaning and will not permit players or staff members until they pass a COVID-19 test.
-_-
Yea! Stand strong. It’s your ball!
Naw, they’ll play. You really think high priced guys like Harper, Trout, and the rest of the players who even at 40% pay would make 6- 13 million bucks will give that up? Or the “poorer” players who really NEED their 1-2 million? Or the owners and their bazillion dollar tv deals? They’ll figure it out. Probably 60-70 or so games and a very lucrative post season.
I have a great Idea for Both Parties
GO AWAY!!!
I`M DONE ….SEE YOU IN 2021 OR AFTER ..I`M GOING FISHING AND IM TAKING YOUR MONEY WITH ME.
This is pathetic. Just give up, And get rid of Clark and Manfred. There’s always next year.
Both sides have said no counter offer will be made. Within 72 hours they both had a counter offer. So there will be a counter of 64-66 games. Doesn’t get much closer to a deal right there its in the middle so owners will need to accept it. When they dont Manfred needs to step and says were going to have 64 games. That’s final. Spring training starts next week
Rob Trashfred and Tony Crap need to be fired immediately. Both are incompetent garbage.
Have all 30 teams send one representative to a central location.
Have Rob Manfred fill a jar with gummy bears.
Whichever team guesses closest to the number of gummy bears in the jar wins the World Series.
This season, IF it’s a season, is all about who made the best minor league invites and can field the best taxi squad/depth.
Most teams won’t want to start the service clock on prospects who aren’t ready, or, for a team without depth to contend.
‘Top heavy’ teams like the red sox will fare poorly. Teams with demonstrated depth – yankees – stand to fare well.
You’ll probably see a couple usual contenders I’d think, but expect many of the higher seeded playoff teams to be new faces. That makes it interesting, especially when a positive test kicks a player out for 20% of the season or 1/3 of a post season.
They are way too close to not get something done. The fact that Tony Clark found 70 games and some additional playoff money acceptable (even though his response was unnecessarily antagonistic) means both sides do agree on the basic framework.
How can there be a season? Of any length?
With no social distancing, players will get Covid. When they do they are out until not contagious, usually at least a week, most likely 2 weeks.
AND, unlike an injury, it’s bound to take a couple more players.
Gonna quarantine everyone who has been within 6 feet on the guy?
How many Phillies got it? HOW? One brings to all?
It’s not going to work – Covid is too contagious even with the best of care because it is possible to spread before symptoms although that is thought to be less likely than it was a month ago.
If 5 players on a team, like the Phillies, come down with it, don’t you have to quarantene the team?
Won’t be a season!
And not the Owners fault. Will because there won’t be players availble!
I’m good with skipping the season. Not only will the season be too short (if they play 60 games), there’s the risk that as players start testing positive for the virus, it’ll affect the rosters and might even put the shortened season in jeopardy.
11:28 PM: The MLB and MLBPA are in disagreement over whether or not Rob Manfred’s dad can beat up Tony Clark’s dad. The league has issued a statement indicating that Rob Manfred’s dad can break a school bus in half with his bare hands. The MLBPA tweeted that Tony Clark’s dad breathes space poison and shoots red hot thumbtacks out of his eyes.