4:34pm: Manfred evidently acknowledges that, as Clark had stated, he invited a new union counterproposal. (Via Jon Heyman of MLB Network, on Twitter.) But Manfred says he advised Clark that seventy games would be an “impossible” figure to fit in without extending play.
The league is continuing to cite concerns with extending play into November — a legitimate concern, to be sure, given the expectations of public health officials that the coronavirus threat could ramp up yet more this fall and winter. Curiously, though, Manfred indicates that doubleheaders are also deemed specifically problematic by MLB’s health advisors. Heyman explains that the concern is with “players spending too much time together,” though it’s not entirely clear why two games in one day would be different than a string of games on separate days.
4:17pm: MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has responded to the public statements of union chief Tony Clark, as Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports (links to Twitter).
“This needs to be over,” said Manfred. That statement refers, presumably, to the all-too-public spat between the league and player’s union regarding the terms by which the 2020 season will occur.
Beyond the obvious harm to the reputations of all involved, the protracted turmoil is running headlong into the realities of the calendar. If there’s any hope of launching a season of the length under discussion — the league proposed sixty, the union seventy — then a deal must be sewn up soon.
Clark insisted in his most recent statement that he did not reach an agreement with Manfred during their recent sit-down. Manfred offered his own take, though he did so in a rather circumspect manner.
Per Manfred:Â “I don’t know what Tony and I were doing there for several hours going back and forth and making trades if we weren’t reaching an agreement.”
It’s yet another bizarre dispute between bargaining parties that obviously have a strained relationship but no alternative partner. They are still arguing over the interpretation of the last deal they formally agreed to.
In this case, nobody claims that pen went to paper. Manfred himself stated just yesterday that the meetings had resulted in a “framework” that “could form the basis of an agreement.” But the sides evidently now disagree as to whether and to what extent they reached a handshake deal during their in-person talks.
Ultimately, says Manfred, both sides “want to play” and “want to reach an agreement.” In a statement that both contains a rather clear threat and undermines any claim that there’s already a binding deal in place, Manfred concluded: “We’re doing everything necessary to find a way to play, hopefully by agreement.”
Eddie1
Hot mess!
kodion
If COVID produces a second or third wave severe enough for another, however temporary or (un?)necessary, shutdown, we may not see the other side of this before the CBA needs to be dealt with. As bad as things are now, they COULD get worse
bush1
The Covid wave has never ended. So a “2nd wave” isn’t necessary.
WiffleBall
In many places the first wave is indeed ended. The end of a wave doesn’t mean there are no cases, just as the crash of an ocean wave doesn’t mean there is no water.
New York for example, is down from a high of 10,000 cases a day, to 500 day. New Jersey is down from a high of 4,000 a day, to about 300 a day.
The “second wave” many people fear is a return to those higher levels in those areas, while places like Arizona, Texas, and Florida are just now entering their first waves.
jabronieramone
Bingo!
jabronieramone
Yup
claude raymond
No wiff there, you got all of that one. Homerun wiffle. Perfectly stated
elscorchot
Florida, which was applauded for opening, is now spiking like crazy. So here, the wave hasn’t ended. It’s gotten worse.
claude raymond
Yep
AngelDiceClay
There’s sure as hell can be a 2nd wave. If in the fall and winter we have a huge spike.
ekrog
Yes it’s spiked from almost nothing to nearly almost nothing.
papasmurf25
You’re a poet and you dont know it
ldoggnation
I’m in AZ. Let me educate you. Texas, Florida and us, protected the most susceptible to the virus, especially our elderly
Here, over 30 % of deaths and hospitalizations come from Navajo Nation and other of the off the grid and poor tribes. That is a holy shame, but help for them is flowing and they’re being helped.
Our deaths and hospitalization have dipped drastically.
Cases are up because there’s more testing.
We were over our first wave before May and opened our state the second and third week of May.
twentyforty
And the overwhelming majority will be just fine, if even get sick at all. AGAIN.
James Midway
The COVID death numbers have been much inflated. People that are dying of cancer and flu are getting counted as COVID.
emac22
It’s always funny when the 4 year olds stand up and start talking about adult subjects they can’t comprehend.
It’s always sad when Republicans stand up and open their mouths because its clear they don’t understand anything.
9lives
You forgot abortion deaths.
l41db4ck
Keep your mask on and stay home.
George
There will be a second wave. Dealing with that will mean having few enough cases and enough personnel to track and isolate individual cases as they occur. Do we have that? Because if we don’t, it will take off again, and combine with the Flu season.
I don’t want to see a situation like Italy where anyone over 60 was denied a ventilator.
robluca21
There is some question to what is considered a covid death however.
Example. You get into a fatal car accident and you happen to have covid..well you get marked as a covid death .
Doctors were being pushed by hospital admins to mark more deaths as covid so they would receive additional funding .
Cant just believe what the tv tells you.
robluca21
You let other guys bang your wife
Stevil
There’s evidence that suggests the exact opposite; that the true numbers are higher… bbc.com/news/world-53073046
This won’t interest anyone who is determined to stick with a conspiracy theory, but for everyone else it’s something to weigh.
None of it will likely factor into negotiations over a baseball season, but perhaps some people will give the situation more pause for thought.
Stevil
Well, evidence laid out and presented like a theory isn’t the same as a conspiracy theory.
But feel free to dismiss the possibility (likeliness) that other people might actually know more than you do.
breckdog
Covid numbers in my state are still going up daily. More than doubled in last month or so in the city where i live.
Idioms for Idiots
Boy, this just keeps getting better by the day. I can only imagine the drama that unfolds in November 2021.
cysoxsale
There wont be discussions. Itll be this- Clark: ok lets talk. MLB Owner: If you think we’re ever going to try to play again youve got another thing coming. We’re rich and we don’t need the players. League is done. bye
bradthebluefish
Do away with unions, pay people their market rate, have opts outs if the player doesn’t perform to their salary. That’s what should in 2021.
bigdonkey44adam_dunn
your a DA…enough said!
George
That’s how it was before 1966 when players were virtual slaves to the club and had no say in their compensation or their future. It is the union that has allowed players to establish their market value through arbitration and free agency.
BTW, even if you don’t belong to a union, the working conditions you enjoy today are the result of over a century of collective bargaining by unions.
Idioms for Idiots
I don’t even care how many games will get played this season if there is a season. I don’t think anyone’s going to take this season seriously.
I’m just curious to see if they can actually come to an agreement at this point.
Samuel
Most of you are too young to understand how important Boxing was to American sports fans. Like baseball, it built up a following in the later years of the 1800’s. Up until the early 1950’s. Those were the 2 of the 3 most popular sports in America, with Horse Racing being the 3rd.
By the early 1950’s Boxing had lost it’s charm. A combination of fixed fights (i.e. cheating), along with boxers managers (i.e. financial agents) manipulating the sport to such a point that fans had to be put through endless negotiations between the managers and the promoters which dominated the Boxing news more then the fighters and their abilities.
The 1956 NFL championship game between the Giants and Colts with Johnny Unitas leading the underdogs to victory was seen in televisions that were becoming standard in American homes, and fans went to a sport they could count on – one with integrity (the current NFL lost theirs decades ago),
Point being this – the Golden Goose is dead bird walking, and like the Boxing people in the early 50’s, MLB participants and the media covering the sport poo poo it. The parallels between current MLB situation (including the recent cheating by the Astros which has resulted in no substantial penalties of merit) and Boxing in the 1950’s are real.
–
NASCAR literally came out of nowhere to be a popular spectator sport. Something else is coming that will blow MLB, the NFL and the NBA out of the water. I don’t know what it is, but within 10 years there is another sport that is going to take over the American psyche.
jearbear_
Marble racing is the next thing
BuddyBoy
I get your point but the NFL will not be surpassed in the next decade by anything.
thedimitriinla
Very nice post. I think in 10 years the NFL and NBA will be fine. MLB is a different story. And the sport that is most likely to achieve this takeover soon would be soccer.
grouchonyy
1956 the Giants topped the Bears 47-7. The game you’re referring to was 1958
Halo9er01
Now this is Pod Racing!
Henry Limpet
Professional Croquet!
kniveschau
Next big thing is E-Sports. It’s already something you can gamble on and it’s coming in a big way. No doubt in my mind it’ll be bigger than the NFL within a decade – the fanbase is significantly larger worldwide. Just need the TV deals to catch on to it in North America. EU and Asia have already figured it out.
Samuel
“Boy, this just keeps getting better by the day. I can only imagine the drama that unfolds in November 2021.”
83sox94win05;
B I N G O !
That will be the fatal shot to dead Golden Goose walking.
jkoch717
All I can think about is Lando in Empire Strikes Back. “This deal is getting worse all the time.”
DarkSide830
“I have a bad feeling about this”
claude raymond
“We need a bigger boat”
SashaBanksFan
What we have here is a failure to communicate
pnedwek
I find your lack of negotiating in faith disturbing
ekrog
You can’t handle the truth!
Captain Dunsel
If people can’t communicate, the least they can do is shut up. (paraphrasing Tom Lehrer)
Arnold Ziffel
4 million unemployed, businesses closed that will never re-open, medical people risking lives daily and these idiots are arguing about how to divvy to millions. Jackasses, all of them.
yaketymac
45 million unemployed
atomicfront
Exactly. Players just seem to want to beat the owners instead of saying what can we do to get a season going?
Rex Block
How to divvy billions …
Tim_Buck-Two
Knowing the way Manfred like to change baseball and handle scandles I have zero hope or faith that there will even be a 20 game crap shoot of a season, only so a lesser honorable World Series Title can be handed out than the one that was handed out in ’17. To bad the players and owners are greedy, and the commissioner is a joke, maybe we would have started play in July otherwise? I’m writing this one off, not even gonna watch if it happens. SMDH what a joke
kingcong95
(surprised Pikachu face)
Elroy Tate
If the MLBPA had competent representation I am convinced there would already be a deal that would compensate players better than any deal they will eventually get at this point.
baseball1010
Elroy… Manfred: “We’re Going To Play Baseball In 2020”
WiffleBall
Thanks for quoting Manfred. What’s your point? His comment was a clear threat to invoke the back-up 48 game season, which he did again today. Both sides are terrible: the owners have been overly greedy in the middle of a pandemic where millions are suffering financially, but the union has been especially childish, batting around decent starting proposals and pretending it’s not about money while out the other side of their mouth trying to call owners greedy.
At this point, I don’t want baseball back. Let’s fix the police system first.
josuph
Agreed. Clark and his people are a disaster. Their incompetence got the players fleeced in the last CBA, then he signed that March agreement without understanding what he was agreeing to, and now this… adolescent pouting. Poor Marvin Miller is rolling over in his grave.
AtlSoxFan
And see, THAT, right there, is both the problem and why Manfred is fed up.
You don’t negotiate from the edges, especially with something that has been this messed up to bring the 2 bosses in.
You take the most divisive issue 1st, head on, and look to add value. Manfred’s key word was TRADING.
You can bet they started with season games, and, to add value to players that’s why you got new ideas for the first time like forgiving part of the advance.
By the end of the sit down I bet Clark said he could sell that to his union, and there were minor open issues like ironing the rest of the testing protocol, what happened if a non-game situation cost playing time – would a covid positive or quarantined player accrue service time – etc.
Then the MLBPA turns around and reopens a ‘settled’ term that was the basis for concessions, but, leaves in the concessions.
afsooner02
Millionaires and billionaires killing a sport one day at a time…..good work to all involved
bhambrave
Most of the players aren’t millionaires. It was reported here recently that two thirds of the players haven’t reached arbitration yet.
kodion
What the union should be fighting for is their future.
Make the one-off concessions now for something like getting to arbitration and Free Agency one year earlier. (That might not be the specific target but I don’t think it will really matter what the goal is. The “greedy” players already past that will never support it like they would if they cared at all about their “brothers”.)
This is an opportunity for guys who have signed, and received significant revenue from, “set for life” contracts to actually be heroes in this.
atomicfront
Yeah but those aren’t the players whining like little bitches. It is the guys who already have their millions.
SimonSwings
Whoa, wow. That is an incredibly stupid comment. Yeesh
WiffleBall
The take home salary of a rookie is 420,000 or so. The average salary in general is 4.65 million. The mean (the point where there are equal above and below) is 1.6M.
So maybe not all of them are millionaires, but it’s fair to say are certainly exceedingly wealthy, and most of them are or are close to being millionaires, making a heck of a lot more money than anyone commenting here ever will.
claude raymond
Its the median not the mean, not that it matters. Your point was understood and agreed with. Please don’t think I’m trying to bust balls so apologies to you in advance. Mean is the same as average. They’re often very close values. I knew what you meant using “mean” so please don’t think I’m mean cuz I do know what you mean.
I’m not trying to show intelligence I’m just average.
In enjoy ur posts
claude raymond
*I enjoy
chesteraarthur
Don’t forget the signing bonuses that some of these players also received.
DonB34
I agree with the original comment. It’s not the pre-arbitration guys who are dragging this out, It’s millionaires like Max Scherzer that say “Tell us when and where” on Twitter, but then he throws a hissy fit that he can’t possibly throw a pitch for less than $35 Million, or he can’t only play 60 games, etc.. He already has more money than he will ever spend….. play ball already!
ottoc 2
It may be that two-thirds of the players have yet to reach arbitration but a pretty good percentage of them received signing bonuses of at least $1 million.
In 2019 the top 22 players signed for at least $3M; the 35th pick did not sign, and you had to go down to the 59th pick before finding one signing for less than $1M ($925K). And because some players were considered “hard signs”, you could find a player in the 19th round (577th overall pick) signing for $477,500 in a $125K slot.
puhl
FU$@ the players!
oldoak33
Why?
gvnbuist
“Why?”
Are you new here?
oldoak33
No, but you must not be paying attention.
Manfred declared that he had a deal with Clark and bought out
1) The right for players to file a grievance
2) Two years of expanded playoffs
3) Two years of expanded playoffs with only a $25mm player pool
4) Advertising on uniforms.
And Rob thought he could buy the union off with ten games for an exchange of value exceeding $600-$700mm? Quit kidding yourself.
Eatdust666
Because they’re selfish, greedy whining MOFOs about the fact that they are not getting full salary.
oldoak33
Full salary? I’m sorry, but so far the best offer they’ve received is 37% of their salaries.
User 589131137
please learn how to read.
lowtalker1
Seriously why should players get full pro rated salary’s without fans in the seats? Baseball is a business and they will lose money from food sales, ticket sales, merch, alcohol, etc
They already got the service time so that puts them one step closer to the free agency and real money.
oldoak33
Because that’s what was agreed to in March, and if players concede to salary cuts based on economic conditions it sets legal precedent moving forward that owners have grounds to force players to reduce salaries based on projected revenues.
Player salaries do not coincide with revenue. They coincide with projections, and if during an investment decision, which is what baseball ownership is, you make a mistake, you can’t just reduce the cost of running your operation by declaring your product overvalued.
If you bought Hertz stock three months ago and the company files for bankruptcy, do you have grounds to sue for damages because of economic downturns? No, you’re an investor who made a bad decision and now you’ll have to wear the loss.
WiffleBall
No, that’s not what they agreed to in March. In March, it was assumed that any resumption in play would be “business as usual”: no expenses for medical testing, full stadiums, truncated but otherwise normal schedule.
Situations have changed, and players want to act like they haven’t.
That said, both sides have been childishly unwilling to compromise.
andrey c.
Espn, Fox and Turner Broadcasting pay mlb 700, 350 and 300 million per year respectively for National tv broadcast rights.. They recently signed extensions for even higher amounts in future seasons. Those current amounts equate to 45 million per team.
Tampa Bay receives 48 million per year for their regional tv broadcast. So that is 48 + 45 = 93 million total for National and Regional tv rights per year that the Tampa Bay Rays receive. Their total payroll for players is 65 million.
Even if MLB has to renegotiate those tv contracts due to fewer games the players have already agreed to cut their guaranteed contracts based on games played. If only 81 games are scheduled Tampa’s player salary would drop by 50% to 32.5 million.
Large teams like the Dodgers make 236 million per year for their regional tv rights. That is why the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc can afford 200 million dollar payrolls where as Tampa can’t.
Given that the teams make more money from just TV rights than they pay in salary I think it is fair for the players to say they have given enough with prorated salaries, there is nothing else they need to give.
Yes teams will be losing out on ticket revenue but they will also receive money from things like Radio broadcasts, MLB.tv streaming, Draft Kings Daily Fantasy(gambling), online merchandising, etc.
Teams like the Yankees own their own tv broadcasting and will benefit directly from higher ratings. If people can’t go to games in person might more people purchase an mlb.tv streaming package? Could Draft King Fantasy usage increase during quarantine.? I think it might.
Teams will definitely make a profit despite not receiving ticket revenue.
The teams are however losing money with no games being played. No revenue at all but they still have fixed expenses such as Manfred’s salary plus all the lawyers. Property taxes, utilities, scouts, GM’s, etc. The Yankees have to pay their YES tv network employees even if there are no Yankee games to broadcast.
No season is a bigger problem for the owners than the players. Tv rights holders, MLB.tv subscribers, Radio broadcasters, etc. will all want their money back.
claude raymond
To me, the players were winning the PR battle. They had the fans on their side. But now they’re blowing it. Fans like the many posting here, are now siding heavily with the owners. But wiffle, you are right to say they’re both being childish. Publicly criticizing the owners, now, is horrible timing…and childish.
Having said that, the owners started this foolishness with the sliding pay scale proposal.
Split the diff, 65 games, and move on
oldoak33
Anyone of importance on the league side has acknowledged there was no requirement to revisit salaries.
You will never convince me that contingencies had been planned for no season to be played at all ($170mm advance with no payback if season was cancelled, full year of service if no season was played, etc) but not planned for games without fans. Anyone thinking games would be played with fans is a moron.
Owners positioned themselves for this, if not to solely recoup the $170mm advance by playing a minimum amount of games. By granting Manfred unilateral authority over the schedule, and by negotiating to burn the clock, the owners wound up perfectly positioned to require a schedule under 75 games. All of this positioning occurred in March while Tony Clark and the players were naively assuming owners would be trying to get a season going ASAP.
oldoak33
They’re not “blowing” it.
Manfred claimed unilateral authority to start a season.
PA called his bluff and said “when and where”
Owners scurry to weasel out of a grievance that would’ve been filed for a billion dollars (due to a schedule unnecessarily shortened) and also to make more money from expanded playoffs.
The owners are the ones that resumed “negotiations” because the owners are literally attempting to alter the season and make more money while protecting themselves from a grievance. If they want to be freed from the possibility of a grievance, want expanded playoffs for two years, and want advertising rights, then they can pay for it.
If not, the players will stick by the motto “when and where” and wait for Manfred to implement the season he claimed he would (without all the sweeteners for the owners).
Brac2brac
That’s a clown statement bro
Dorothy_Mantooth
No team will make a profit this year, that is abundantly clear. Just look at the Atlanta Braves financials. They had record revenues of $470M last year and a payroll of around $130M. They made a net operating profit of about $40M. After factoring in Depreciation and Amortization, they lost $50M. So their payroll expenses only made up about 1/3 of their total operating expenses as an organization. People seem to think players salaries are the only big expense teams have and that couldn’t be further from the truth. Each team employs 1,000’s of workers and has to pay huge travel costs, utility costs, real estate taxes, police details, stadium improvement costs, etc. 40% of their total revenues come from game day attendance so by losing 40% of their income, every MLB team is guaranteed to lose money this season. If that wasn’t the case, the season would have already started. Yes TV brings in the majority of revenue but that will not come close to covering all of the teams expenses.
oldoak33
So what? At what point did anyone sign on the dotted line to honor the CBA, or any subsequent agreement, only if baseball was profitable?
At best they have the wording “economically feasible”, which doesn’t mean “profitable”. Considering businesses operate at a loss all the time, the PA is well within its right to hold Manfred to his claim of 50 games full pro rata (which magically aligned with the three offers the players received from the league dollar wise), or the owners can buy their way out of a grievance while also trying to add additional playoff games for two seasons and expanded advertising.
Dogs
Without fans in the stands a lot of their expenses fall off the books too.
And all those damned Attorneys & Accountants those cost a fortune just to save a fortune & they stay on the books if they play or not.
emac22
Weasel!
Why do people like you feel such a desperate need to lie?
You’re pathetic.
Stevil
Prorated salaries, as agreed upon in March, was never something that could be renegotiated without the entire deal being voided. That’s why the union has negotiated every other potential economical stimulus except base salary. Everything else falls under the “good faith” excerpt.
Even that can be manipulated, though. This is being dragged out by the owners because fewer games mean fewer game checks, and postseason salaries are attendance-based. If there are no fans, nothing goes to the players, hence the union asking for a cut of TV revenues (which is considered a stimulous). That explains why the owners want more postseason teams, as it means more postseason games and more undivided revenue, though a deal won’t likely get made without an agreement that compensates players, somehow.
Make no mistake about who is dragging this out. The delays have been intentional. The owners never wanted a season with 81+ games. They’ve (successfully) been leaking discussions to the media to generate public sympathy and put pressure on the union to concede.
You can be disgusted with both sides, but nobody should believe that the owners are victims in all of this. The biggest victims are the fans.
A'sfaninLondonUK
Dorothy-
I might be misreading here but you’re actually making Old Oaks point for him. You say Player’s costs are $130m out of $470m revenue, but many of the other costs you mention won’t apply this year or will be vastly reduced, such as stadium improvements (irrelevant), reduced police details, utilities will also be vastly reduced, travel will be more than halved in a 70 game season.
The point you make about game day revenue (40%) has to be balanced against game day costs. It is NOT a flat 40% to be lopped off where everything else remains equal is it?
oldoak33
Hi A’s fan
It doesn’t matter what the numbers say, it matters what was agreed to. So far the league has acknowledged full pro rata be paid, and for Manfred to have the right to unilaterally schedule the season.
That’s what “when and where” was. It was the unions concession that Manfred was able to mandate a season by his determination. The leagues current counter was an attempt to buy their way out of a grievance, and expand playoffs and advertising.
The league claimed additional loss for every game played, so I’m not sure why the fact that they’ve stalled is surprising anyone. But make no mistake, full pro rata has been acknowledged by multiple members on the league side and the commissioner himself.
ekrog
Maybe he thinks they’re sexy?
bhambrave
I think what happened is they reached a somewhat agreement, and after the meeting the players asked Tony about it and he realized he made a bad deal. Now he’s trying to save face. Reminds me of Michael Keaton in Gung Ho.
retire21
That’s exactly right.
atomicfront
More like Boras told him no. You think the guy making $550k a year is complaining? Nope just the guys who are already rich beyond their wildest dreams.
SashaBanksFan
I love that movie
masam99
A bad episode of “The Bachelor.”
waylonmercy
There are good ones??
claude raymond
Funny stuff Waylon.
joels
I honestly could care less at this point, I “forgave” the 1994-95 strike, but told myself that was it, that there’d better not be a next time. I’m 58, & have been a baseball fan for 50 years, but this may be it for me. Oh, I’ll go to minor league games when I can (I can actually afford the tickets!) & maybe start watching college basketball, which I used to enjoy, again. Not being an MLB owner or a union member, I don’t matter anyway.
lowtalker1
I cannot stand the crack of metal bats
Stevil
So, how much less can you care!?
richard dangler
Just play the games starting next week with full stadiums. Corona is a hoax and no one buys it anymore.
Ancient Pistol
You should lose this attitude. It is real. However, there are better ways to address it than shutting everything down.
asdfgh
Not a hoax man, Over 100,000 nearing 200,000 lives lost and already NZ and Canada having another wave of it. Also there’s a hot mess in the White House.
AngelDiceClay
Melania is a hot mess. You’re right
GRAVER NY
Completely agree. Fake news.
Bill Smith
Unfortunately for Dick Dangler, his opinion doesn’t matter, just like he doesn’t matter. What matters is what the grown-ups say, and the grown-ups are the ones negotiating, the ones doing the science, and the ones who have medical degrees. So it would be in Dick Dangler’s best interests to go push his opinions out in a more appropriate forum, such as one of his social media MAGAt echo-chambers.
Ancient Pistol
Please keep politics out of this. You adding into this discussion makes you no better than Dick. In fact, adding the echo-chamber line lowers your stock quite a bit.
MLB-what-ifs
Bill Smith – no one cares about your OPINION. You can go look for Joe when he wonders away from his mental hospital
ekrog
If no one cares about his opinion, what makes you think anyone cares about yours?
chesteraarthur
Everything is allowed if you just burn stuff down and pretend you’re protesting. People with medical degrees said that’s more important than viruses, so obviously we believe them. But also only believe the ones that support Bill’s point, ignore any dissenting medical opinions.
Harvbanger
Yeah ok R Dangler. Take a trip to Florida. Hang out on the beach with the other thousands or so. See how good you feel in a couple of weeks. Hoax. LMAO.
ekrog
Yes just like all those cases we saw from the Florida spring breakers, the lake of the Ozarks, and the protests. Billions of cases. L MY AO.
chesteraarthur
I’d be willing to bet he’d feel fine, just like most people are 14 days after being exposed to it
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Cool! Let’s chip in, send him to Florida and find out!
jobusrum9
I’ll be the guinea pig if you’re willing to pay for me to test the theory in south beach for a few weeks.
Ancient Pistol
Manfred = 1, Clark = 0.
I think Manfred’s comment on meeting face to face for several hours and his opinion that a deal is forthcoming seems more accurate than Clark’s accounting. It seems unlikely you’d meet for so long if an outcome is impossible..
Chatdawg09
The details they are disputing are nuanced enough that I can see how someone could say we are in the right ballpark of figuring out an agreement. But everyone should be able to bridge the gap here. I agree full heartedly Manfred won points about wondering what they were doing if they weren’t hammering out a framework though
rob_manfred_sucks
Uhh Manfred ‍♂️
rob_manfred_sucks
dang I didnt know emojis didnt work
Idioms for Idiots
@rob_manfred_sucks
I guess the middle finger emoji. Am I close?
Afk711
Then get your anonymous owners who said the proposal the 70 game proposal players just sent is “the worst ever”. How is the difference between 60 games and 70 the worst ever. Enough floundering around and have common sense that the damage you will do to the game long term is far worse than profit losses in 2020.
Halo11Fan
AK, there is a virus. This isn’t like the flu. Players are going to be out two or three weeks and not two or three days.
There has to be built is stop gaps so they don’t spread to teams.
If a team catches this, they are gone, if a league catches this, it’s over.
Those ten games are ten days off which can be used to prevent the spread.
Afk711
This has nothing to do with the financial bickering between players and owners.
Bill the Cat
Halo, I’m laughing my ass off that you think that ANY of this nonsense between MLB and the MLBPA not reaching an agreement yet has anything to do with anything other than money. OMFnG…..
MLB-what-ifs
Halo – go wear a mask
You and governor Hair Gel
giantsphan12
@MLB-What….EVERYONE, when in public around others, should be wearing a mask. My mask protects you (somewhat) and if you’re patriotic enough to care for your fellow citizens and neighbors, your mask protects us. All developed countries that are doing better, per capita/#s than U.S. are largely doing so due to masks and continued social distancing. Masks are part of the only thing we have right now which is mitigation.
gwell55
Bull Montana here no one wearing masks within 300 miles of our house… no covid here either and tons of nutcases from california, washington, and oregon driving through stopping eating restraunts, getN groceries, buying drinks, fishing, hunting, and playing around….
All American Johnsonville Dogs
This is a complete disaster for the mlb.
The fact it’s this public is mind boggling.
Players acting like they’re being asked to make scraps
Union has no idea what it’s doing
Owners crying woe is me
It’s a complete travesty…. nobody is believing any side is the victim despite their attempts to make themselves seem like they are.
Manfred had any backbone he’d put a final deal on the table and say take it or we cancel the 2020 season instead of letting this poor excuse of negotiations continue.
Bill Smith
Probably not particularly likely for him to take those measures when he has a collective of 20+ hands shoved up his rear and calling the shots.
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Sadly, you’re right. The fact they’re still arguing over something they discussed in March. The players and owners need to have an outside person come in and make a ruling.
Halo11Fan
The only people I respect less than the owners is the Players Union.
lowtalker1
Aka tony Clark.
Halo11Fan
No, the Players Union.
The owners made Marvin Miller necessary. But when the Union and Miller fought strongly against PED testing, that it took an act of congress to get testing, that’s when they lost me.
They had me all the way until after the strike in 94, But like most unions, if given the opportunity, they become more concerned about their power than the good of their members.
That happened with PEDs.
Bill the Cat
Not disagreeing with you on this one halo, but it was Fehr not Miller during the fight against PEDs. Just semantics though. I’m still disgusted by the whole PED fight as well, it was an embarrassment…..
seth3120
Totally with you here Halo. Instead of protecting their own members from having to use a substance that was killing people to remain on a level playing field with other players they used it as a bargaining chip. The owners had to give to get testing in the cba. It should have been something both sides just said let’s do this for the betterment of the game and the players health. People keep saying that MLB owners and players should just split the difference but they don’t understand how hard Manfred had to push to get that 100% pay for 60 games. He expected them to sign and be done but now he has to go back to the same owners who weren’t happy at 60 and ask for more. They went at it full steam ahead and got a counter offer not an agreement. I guess at this point you give the players a few extra games and say this is it. Hopefully players realize if they wait any longer that deal will come off the table
DonB34
Mark McGwire says comments on articles should not talk about the past.
The Human Rain Delay
You are 100% correct Halo
I dont think many here understand who/what the MLBPA works for
DarkSide830
enlighten us on this conspiracy then
The Human Rain Delay
Conspiracy? No…. not in the slightest
If you haven’t taken a deep dive into who/what the MLBPA has represented over the past 25 years, a post by me isnt going to change your mind at this point.
Sabermetric Acolyte
At this point Manfred is just playing to the media. The owners won’t accept the counter proposal and Manfred is already laying out the “it’s not our fault” narrative. At best the owners will reword their last proposal, claim it’s so much more different than the last one, claim poverty, and whine about those greedy players. It’s all still just window dressing for the future CBA talks.
Bill Smith
We just need to make sure these owners are taken care of so they can feed their families. Those yacht fleets aren’t going to gas up themselves. Let’s get them a piece of that “stimulus” pie, and stop sending out all these thousands of dollars to entitled American citizens. This isn’t a Socialist Republic of States, after all.. -MAGA America
Cincyfan85
“This needs to be over.”
That’s how I feel about just about everything right now.
lowtalker1
If they want to get some games in they better have brought the idea of double headers into the mix. Let’s play two
The Human Toilet
Doubleheaders increase the chances getting the virus, why would Manfred lie about that? lol
jhiphop
62 games, 8 against each division foe, 3 against the other 10 in your league, 10 weeks. Let’s go.
Larry Leonardo
Got the wrong people negotiating. Never will happen unless some outside parties with clout get involved. Greed galore.
CNichols
Manfred’s statement that, “I don’t know what Tony and I were doing there for several hours going back and forth and making trades if we weren’t reaching an agreement” actually makes no sense.
What he is describing there is the process of negation, not a final agreement. If you’re actively making and receiving concessions, you are in the process of working out a deal, but that doesn’t mean that you actually have a final deal.
What Manfred is doing is like the equivalent of a team saying that since they exchanged numbers with a free agent that they must have been making an agreement. Until you actually agree on the specifics with that free agent and write up the contract, you just don’t actually have an agreement.
Tom84
But exchanging numbers with a free agent is much different than months of negotiation and hours worth of meetings negotiating
CNichols
People meet for hours all the time and negotiate. I’ve been to 12 hour mediations before where we exchange concessions all day and then don’t leave with a deal.
Also aside from the scope of it being much larger it really that much different than a deal with a FA? They’re both just contracts. Say you’re a GM and you’ve been talking to Gerrit Cole for months and you have a face to face meeting with him for hours and go back and forth negotiating most of his contract. It’s clear that you want him for 9 years $316 and he wants 9 years $336. At the end of the day, you might have a framework that can get you a deal, but you haven’t signed Gerrit Cole yet until the two of you agree on 9/326 and he signs his contract.
Now Manfred is confirming that he told the MLBPA that they could make a counter proposal? He’s literally confirming that they did not have a final agreement
DonB34
The quote was that they had the “framework of an agreement” after spending time together. Which made it seem like a proposal that both reps were ok with, and Tony Clark just needed to take back to the players for a vote. Maybe some tweaks needed. But what they came back with today is a straight counter-proposal, which seems like that was just wasted time on whatever “framework of an agreement” they had. So yes, why did Clark leave the meeting if he still wasn’t happy? I think he was… and some of the power players were not pleased. Likely the same ones saying “Tell us where and when” but obviously didn’t mean it…… just driving public opinion…..
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Makes perfect sense.
It’s June 17th.
You assume players need 2 weeks for ST. That puts us right around July 1st
The more time passing now means less games and/or less ST time or both.
At this point unless you’re meeting to reach an agreement you’re just wasting time trying to negotiate details that should have been hammered out long before now since each day that passes without an agreement wastes time prepping and playing for 2020..
chill39
Offers are made on paper not face to face. Deals are done in person. This latest meeting should not have ended without a deal. Both parties left with a deal they felt their groups would approve. Most likely it was the Agents that nixed this. Let’s not forget that the billionaire agencies and agents that truly control MLBPA. It’s not really players vs owners. It is Agents vs Owners.
DonB34
100%.!! Clark liked the deal when he left. Why would they have walked away for the day with the “framework of an agreement” if they weren’t both happy? That sounded like it was time to vote.
tedtheodorelogan
All parties can go sit on rusty pitch forks. So over it. On a different note, glad to see Jordan Spieth playing well and on the first page of the leaderboard again today.
Tom84
Yeah man, hes the hometown golf hero over here in Dallas. Good to see him back on his game.
Indianfan
Only problem is they play four rounds.
bush1
I’m not pro-owner at all, but the more this goes on I am beginning to think Tony Clark is an issue. Obviously, Manfred has his issues. But he’s an expert in negotiations like this and getting things done. Who knows if Clark has the ability to communicate and convey things in an effective way for a massive deal like this.
chill39
I doubt Clark even talks to players. He works through the Agents.
bush1
Well, if that’s the case then I’m write. Clark is a major issue.
bush1
*right
DarkSide830
terribly worded
Ricky Stevens
This whole bunch is just stuck on stupid. Owners, players, the commissioner, agents–every last one of them is worried about who’s getting the biggest piece of the pie.
What they’re missing is that if they don’t agree to something there won’t be any pie at all.
weo
Most of the owners will be losing money. The players are getting paid less, but won’t be losing anything. Screw the players who want to turn this into a NASCAR sport. I’m done listening to these babies.
DarkSide830
wolnt lose anything…except money? what am i missing here?
hwyisalive
Do you know what a colossal waste of time is? The major league baseball owners and the major-league baseball players association continually dissing one another about who is trying to screw who out of money and preventing a baseball season from happening. Any Immunologist or Virologist can tell you that there is no way they are going to be able to play a season regardless of the number of games, and have playoffs all the way through the World Series starting any date soon through and concluding by the end of October or early November without compromising lots of lives. Including those of players, coaches team employees and even the owners and their families should they attend games. Just shut the mother down for 2020; owners take your billions and players take your millions and donate the funds to help develop a goddamned vaccine so you stand at least a small chance of playing in 2021. Because unless a vaccine is developed soon, produced in large enough quantities to make the world safe, distributed throughout the world and actually trusted enough by people so they take it, you might not be playing until 2023 or later. 
DonB34
The Korean Baseball League is already 39 games deep into the season, so I don’t see why baseball in the US faces certain doom in your opinion.
madmanTX
Just eliminate all sports until Coronavirus is eradicated. I want to see all your heads explode from not being able to whine about your teams.
ScottCFA
Then why are you here, troll?
atomicfront
Or wat h sports where players aren’t grossly overpaid and you will see plenty of sports. Women’s soccer is starting soon.
22222pete
I cant believe there are health concerns for a healthy group aged 20-35. Look at the data, people in this group don’t get very sick, its just another cold
You would think folks who are home with data would analyze the data for COVID
If players are this dumb I am not watching anymore. Glad I cancelled by mlb.tv in February
fred-3
Most of the managers and speciality coaches are 50 years old or older
atomicfront
Healthy 50 year olds aren’t dying either.
bbatardo
I laughed at the reason for no double headers… look if you are going to spend 3+ hours with someone, how different will be 6+? Presumably they will be testing often, so if there are concerns for 2 games in a day there should be equal concern for 1 in a day.
tominco
Ultimately, says Manfred, both sides “want to play” and “want to reach an agreement.”
Yeah right. If you both wanted that you’d be half way through spring training now with games starting in 10 days. You are all idiots.
Marlins2019
Cancel this season already and start fresh in 2021 without the bogus DH-in-NL and 16-team postseason garbage they’re trying to foist in this deal.
atomicfront
Sounds good to me. Boras can use a season without revenue. And the players can get $900 a week in unemployment.
jsaldi
Instead of meeting with Tony Clark get with the real boss Boros and reach a settlement and play ball
James Midway
So essentially Clark DOESN’T want to play.
coolhandneil
No. There are small market owners who don’t want to play.
The Human Rain Delay
Moving Forward –
What I hate most is it looks like the 2021 playoffs are a joke now too 16 teams ? wtf/why??-
I was totally ok from the beginning scrapping this season or altering it any fashion you like but I just hate next years playoffs are getting dragged into this….I know I know Money….who cares about ANYTHING BUT…. so lame
I hope the DH is not here to stay past 21 in the NL……. I highly doubt it, it will probably be cemented forever now in both leagues ;( ……….. Im an NL guy, its going to be a little sad tbh
On the real. this is going to drive a lot of current fans away from the game. That doesnt mean completely but the sliding scale is going to be crippling. Its always about the sliding scale
coolhandneil
Man, Manfred & the owners really screwed this up.
atomicfront
They should have never given the players the advanced salary. Should have torn up the CBA.
The Human Toilet
What the great Michael Scott said, and relating well with this situation;
– You know what they say? “Fool me once, strike one. But fool me twice… strike three.”
toooldtocare
These negotiations remind me of the work of 3 men, Moe, Larry, and Curly
bobtillman
Larry Moe and Curly would have been too embarased.
toooldtocare
You’re absolutely right!
NY_Yankee
Clark and the players called Manfred’s bluff, but Manfred is holding a full house and Clark a pair of threes.
terry g
There is no guarantee that a second wave won’t hit in October rather than November. The playoffs and the money the owners are counting could be a moot issue.
DarkSide830
honestly they should play into November. no proof virus is more virulent in the winter after recent numbers, and even so I cant imagine these governors will put restrictions back in place. (for better or for worse)
brucenewton
If they are doing 70 games, summer training needed to start today. I foresee a lot of arm injuries coming.
saintguitar
If it was agonizing before, now it is almost laughable. Do they even know what they are doing? Do they even realize or care about the fans who are losing interest every single day? Is the difference between playing 70 games or 80 games that important to publicly calling each other, essentially, liars?
Man, I don’t get these guys.
NY_Yankee
Basically Manfred is right. It is time to put up or shut up for both sides. No more “Dog and Pony Show” games. Just set a deadline of 12:01AM Monday morning to come to an agreement or cancel the season..
matt4baseball
Basically Manfred lied again, There was no agreement since they never agreed to the amount of games which hinders the actual pay the players get this year. Until there is a signed agreement there is no agreement. I’d count my fingers after signing anything with the owners or Manfred.
thornt25
The Manfred quote is “a jointly developed framework that we agreed could form the basis of an agreement.” I don’t know how people are interpreting this as him claiming the ink is dry. Tony Clark is being overly combative at a point in the negotiations where relationships should be improving. Hopefully this will be forgotten in a few days.
Dorothy_Mantooth
@Matt4Baseball – How do you know that? Were you in the room? For Manfred to state that, some sort of handshake agreement was definitely reached; the players just nixed it when Clark brought it back to them for final approval. I’m sure Tony gave some sort of assurances that these terms would be, or at least should be agreeable to the players but that is the issue that has been haunting us all along. Clark does not know what the players he is representing truly want. He’s just a stuffed suit and very bad at his job.
balloonknots
Remember manfred sucks but he also works directly for the worst set of owners in all sports. Shitty business men who are in it for the money and don’t how to grow the business properly! Let’s go nba, mls and nhl as mlb markets can be had!
bobtillman
With all the good feelings from this negotiation, I can’t wait for the new CBA talks……maybe a 24 team playoff?
DonB34
Everyone gets a World Series trophy.
Shane48
You guys need to get life’s, baseball is not essential for life. It’s a kid’s game. The independent leagues are starting up in July go to one of those games. Pro sports without fans is rediculous. The disparity from wealthy clubs and poorer clubs is easily solved thru total revenue sharing of all venues of income influx.
whyhayzee
Let’s just say there IS an agreement. Both sides are happy. Then what? Is this saving the economy? Is it boosting morale? Or is it just needlessly creating potentially dangerous situations that could lead to more cases and more deaths. For what? To be able to watch a game on TV? Is it giving people jobs? Or is it needlessly wasting test resources on a small group of people? Are we just going to let a small group of people have constant access to testing and healthy procedures so we can watch them on TV? Really? When do they start training? What are the protocols? Do they have to self quarantine? Are they under tighter restrictions than the rest of us? Why is all this necessary? Because we really need baseball?
Are you kidding me?
pjmcnu
There’s no threat left in “hopefully by agreement.” The players already called that bluff. That’s what got these negotiations going.
So if both sides really want to play, split the difference at 65 games (and $37.5M in player postseason money, if my memory serves [($50M + $25M)/2]) and play.
Eric Ferrari
Give the players 70 games and get the waiving of right to file a grievance in return. Fak! Enough of the BS already.
bradthebluefish
NHL and NBA does a 16 team playoff. Why not baseball?
DonB34
Baseball plays double the amount of games to make sure the best teams are in the playoffs. I would argue there shouldn’t even be two Wild Card teams because that put someone that doesn’t need to be in the playoffs into the playoffs.
nyyrulesbutimnotbiased
Bauer for commissioner. Manfred needs to be kicked out
Dogs
David Dombrowski for Players Union Leader
tonyinsingapore
Tha virus is defeating the US.
Baseball is a prime example.
atomicfront
Baseball is irrelevant.
dpsmith22
Manfred needed to nip the media circus in the bud when it first started. He is worse then Selig was. Is that even possible?
mdunkel
Manfred is a idiot who hasn’t gotten anything worthwhile done while being the Commish. Games are just as long and he seems to not be able to make a decision. Clark is just a flat out clown. I won’t be watching any baseball this year even if they do go back. Maybe next after all the drama and bickering is over. The have drained all the fun out of it.
bencole
Rob Manfred needs to be what’s over.
jessaumodesto
How to make baseball better:
1. Stop with cookie cutter stadiums!! Why not have some Stadiums with say 100 foot fences, but make them 500 feet high. So basically you can bomb a single off one or it a towering homer.
2. No umpires! Have the pitcher call balls and strikes. Could you imagine the tension?
3. Have a man in the press box determine how many outs each team gets per inning. Sometimes it may be 10 outs sometimes it’s only 1, but that would be fun.
swinging wood
Acid is a hell of a drug.
Henry Limpet
Yeah it is. Got any?
(just asking for a friend).
dave 2
Neither side wants to play this season and both sides think they need to act like they do.
BigGiantHead
Double headers.
There, fixed it.
Nobaseball20
Time is ticking away ! Lost respect after Blake Snell rant!
Arnold Ziffel
I hope Snell blows his arm out, although Greed rules both sides. Jerks.jj
TC06
Replace Manfred! That doesn’t mean I’m on the players side. I think both sides are a bunch of spoiled brats!
Akblaze
MLB missed the mark. The fans needed them and instead we got garbage. I will think twice before I purchase any tickets, gear, or tune in moving forward.
I hate soccer but at least the MLS had the courage to put together something creative and entertaining for our country to watch in July. Good for the PGA, NBA, and NASCAR too.
Snuffy
This has been going on so long I forgot who I drafted. Hopefully they will perform in July as I thought they would in April.
Dutch Vander Linde
Manfred does not like baseball. His plan is to take MLB and flush it down the toilet.
FishyHalo
Why can’t Manfraud be over? He gets paid 25 million to do this poor of a job.
Rallyshirt
Getting my baseball itch back, having watched the 2005 Chicago White Sox Road to World Series Championship.
Taking down former champ Boston and its legion of big-name stars in a sweep. Then, off to Anaheim and their stacked club in the ALCS. Lost game one, but the pale hose came back to finish them off in five. Finally, the veteran-rich and talented pitchimg Houston Astros. After beating out the mighty Cardinals, they get swept in a no-holds-barred World Series battle by the Cinderella White Sox.
Such a good time! I highly recommend a viewing.
Hawktattoo
1995 Mariners…great viewing also.
NY_Yankee
Clark had his bluff called by Manfred. Now Boras is making him walk it back
kwolf68
Owners are draining the clock so when the “negotiations” are over there is no recourse other than to have the bogus 50 game season they want. Total scum.
g8752
Seems like Fauci is talking out of both sides of his mouth. One day he says the MLB cant play too far after September and then he realizes he never said anything against the NFL playing until February so he had to say something on the NFL.
Just get a deal done.
g8752
I think all players should play with condoms on so they wont transmit HIV too.
kwolf68
This deal has nothing to do with Fauci. The owners don’t want many games, they want expanded playoffs, period. They’d be fine with no season and 2 months of playoffs.
EVEN IF Fauci said it’s OK to play in November the owners would concoct some other excuse as to why they can’t play into November.
This is the owners getting what the owners want,
Hawktattoo
His concern for mlb came up since he is a fan. He can state his concerns for mlb and nfl just like you can.
Henry Limpet
He can state it, but there is no reason for anyone to put any weight into his opinions…and people need to realize that they are just that: Opinions…and not cold hard facts.
Many in the media and government are and have been treating his statements as if he knows any more than any other doctor.
The man has neither a Ph.D. nor any real clinical experience to go with his M.D….He’s been doing desk and presentation jobs since he graduated med school and has never actually conducted a study or written a paper all on his own.
Fauci isn’t even a scientist; he’s a ‘Science Politician’. His job is to ‘speak with mortals’ and acquire Research Funding.
Indianfan
“This needs to be over.” You think?
mike156
Bleh. I realize that’s not eloquent, but it’s fairly accurate,
ottoc 2
There is now a report that 5 players and 3 staff members of the Phillies working out in Clearwater have tested positive and that it has spread massively to their families. There are still 20 players and 12 staff members (ML and ml) who are still awaiting test results.
Maybe all you effing idiots here claiming fraud will wake up and realize this pandemic is serious.
dbec72
Manfred needs to say 80 games and if you have a medical condition or are 70 or over to watch the games on tv and let’s play.