MLB didn’t just provide the MLBPA a new economic proposal today. It also filed some fighting words in the letter delivering its latest offer for a coronavirus-shortened campaign, as Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic report (subscription link).
Deputy MLB commissioner Dan Halem suggested the union has not acted in good faith in negotiations, hinting at the league’s possible stance if and when this matter ends up before an arbitrator. By Halem’s framing, labor is taking an obstructionist stance as the league provides what it labels a “final counterproposal” for a 72-game season.
That the sides are now exchanging angry letters, even as the clock ticks on squeezing in games, is to an extent merely confirmation of that underlying state of affairs. But there’s also a nod to a serious escalation lurking just beneath the surface. Halem hints less than subtly at a possible effort by the league to disrupt the sides’ late March agreement, claiming the union has “purposely failed to fulfill its obligations” and “deprived the Clubs the benefit of their bargain” in the contract.
No doubt the league already anticipated the likely outcome when it sent this shot across the bow. The union is expected to decline, and do so before the league’s appointed Sunday deadline, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter).
While the overall MLB salary offer has morphed in kind and crept up in value, the league’s bargaining posture remains the same as ever. The same holds true on the players’ side, where full pro rata pay has long been seen as a sine qua non.
The league begins from the premise that it can force a greatly truncated season with the players receiving pro rata pay for a third or less of a normal slate of games. Anything more? That’s gravy for the players, so they should be glad to get a marginal return for additional games played, particularly since the league is willing to dangle some added payment for an expanded postseason slate (should that prove possible). Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt laid this out rather forthrightly in his eyebrow-raising recent interview.
The players come from quite the opposite direction. By their view, the sides’ late-March agreement provided for pro rata pay for any games played. While that deal also contemplated the sides “discuss[ing] in good economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators,” the players don’t believe that disrupts the salary clause.
Given those radically different viewpoints, it’s not hard to see why this dispute seems to be so intractable. Indeed, Halem now asserts in the letter that the players have no initial right to pay in the first place. While many are playing under guaranteed contracts, Halem notes that the league could have suspended them upon the declaration of a national emergency. Of course, Manfred didn’t take that course. The late March agreement reportedly requires the commissioner to exercise good-faith efforts to stage as many games as possible, as Baseball America’s JJ Cooper notes on Twitter. And a players’ association source tells Rosenthal and Drellich that the league’s own attorneys acknowledged in letter correspondence that “players are not required to accept less than their full prorated salary.”
As we’ve pointed out here previously, it’s completely absurd that the sides remain entrenched in a disagreement over an agreement they signed in late March — one that was intended to deal with the COVID-19 shutdown. Perhaps that’s the best way to understand the acrimony and distrust: the sides evidently never really saw eye to eye even as they signed that agreement.
Mollysdad
wake me up when it’s over
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
you’ll be sleeping for quite awhile
stevewpants
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
dugdog83
Everyone’s a Talking Head
wahoomaniac
Stop making sense.
retire21
This ain’t no party.
Randy Red Sox
No kidding. Just announce NOW that the season is cancelled and with the impending strike to come we will next see MLB on the field in 2022 and NO-ONE WILL CARE !!!
Ejemp2006
Huge missed opportunity. Could’ve been the only live sports on TV for two months if they had just hammered something out for games without fans in the stands.
Still, this is why it’s America’s past time. Does anything else better represent where we are as a country right now? Polarized big rich interests fighting over billions while the rest of are out of work.
whitesoxfan24
This…100%
dynasty in boston
I see NHL 2.0
Bill Skiles
Oh uck ’em fall!
.
DarkSide830
im starting to get most angry at the reporters for letting this private league business become public.
Brixton
Why should we care? Someone within the league is leaking it to the press anyways
stymeedone
Or someone in the union
Robertowannabe
I believe both sides are leaking crap.
stollcm
Eh I see your point but both sides are probably leaking just enough on purpose.
wahoomaniac
Hello, that’s their job. Are you one of those folks posting the FB memes that “80% of our problems would just disappear if the media would just go away”?
kreckert
Entitled millionaires versus even more entitled billionaires. They are all tone deaf idiots. There’s no one to root for.
The only thing I’m sure of is that Rob Manfred cares neither about game itself or the fans. He would apparently sit on a grenade if the owners asked him to. Perhaps they should.
njbirdsfan
How exactly is someone who works hard to get good enough to play major league baseball entitled, and yet the public is perfectly happy to assume the guy who has a billion is intelligent and completely moral?
Technically correct
@njbirdsfan, It’s another unwritten rule. Also, I’m pretty sure it’s in the Bible.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
in the Bible?
BigFred
Two Corinthians. Look it up.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@Technically correct – absolutely correct, as theologians will agree…
It’s in the book of Defamations, Chapter XI. (in ancient tongue – Ban Kruptcy)
In the words of Man Fred, slave and prophet of the gluttons….
“And lo – the inheritor of 700 camels must covet the camels of a lesser man. For the lesser man haveth not the noodle to make further camels from other plebian’s labo(u)rs. Only his own.
“Indeed, and moreth, the lesser man – in his youthful intemperance – shall be tickled with mere morsels of the camel. Four arbits will equal one camel. His share – shall be knowneth as his arbit – ration.
It carries on a further about the camels not being particularly profitable anyway given the goods, chattels, (they’ve misinterpreted celeries as salaries apparently) and gluttons they have to carry on their backs, The theme is carried on a bit later in the book of DeWitticisms, court jester of the gluttons….
A'sfaninLondonUK
@Technically correct – absolutely correct, as theologians will agree…
It’s in the book of Defamations, Chapter XI. (in ancient tongue – Ban Kruptcy)
In the words of Man Fred, slave and prophet of the gluttons….
“And lo – the inheritor of 700 camels must covet the camels of a lesser man. For the lesser man haveth not the noodle to make further camels from other plebian’s labo(u)rs. Only his own.
“Indeed, and moreth, the lesser man – in his youthful intemperance – shall be tickled with mere morsels of the camel. Four arbits will equal one camel. His share – shall be knowneth as his arbit – ration.
It carries on about the camels not being particularly profitable anyway given the goods, chattels, (they’ve misinterpreted celeries as salaries apparently) and gluttons they (the camels) have to carry on their backs, The theme is carried on a bit later in the book of DeWitticisms, court jester of the gluttons….
86mets
LOL, I love this! Hilarious AND accurate at the same time. Good work!
padreforlife
Bible talk = priceless
kwolf68
LMAO. Classic.
A'sfaninLondonUK
Thank you all.
Robertowannabe
I believe that @ kreckert is like me and blaming both. The Billionaires worked hard to acquire their wealth to enable themselves to be the owner of a sports franchise and be in position to pay those players their millions. Both sides act entitled at times and both sides are to blame for the situation that baseball is in right now. Neither side has moral superiority in this fight.
joblo
The only morally superior group in this mess are us, the fans.
whynot 2
The fans have no say in this, nor should they. It is a labor issue.
Are fans the ones left without something to watch, sure, but that doesn’t give them a seat at the negotiation table.
Robertowannabe
But we , the fans are used by both sides to meet their ends. We are the ones whose buy the tickets, buy the concessions at those games, buy team apparel and other items licensed by MLB, and we are the ones to watch the televised games or listen to the radio broadcasts..We,are,the ones to pay the subscriptions to MLB to have access to the streaming services. We pay the freight yet have no say in what we are paying for or the costs for any of it. .
xtraflamy
Customers always have a say. Without us there is no way to sell their product.
whynot 2
They don’t care, they know a certain percentage of fans will be back regardless.
bill1218
“The Billionaires worked hard to acquire their wealth to enable themselves to be the owner of a sports franchise and be in position to pay those players their millions.”
The owner of my favorite team, Hal Steinbrenner, inherited it from his father. He didn’t do a lick of work to acquire his wealth and I’m not going to side with him even a bit over the players. Don’t root for laundry, especially when that laundry was bought with daddy’s money.
yankees500
I believe that the billionaire owners have worked much harder for their wealth than the millionaire players have
wahoomaniac
I guarantee you the billionaires have not worked harder than the millionaires. That’s completely laughable. Many of the Bs inherited their wealth and thrive in an economy that rewards capital more than labor. Anyone good enough to become an M in baseball worked their ass off to get there. No one handed them anything.
xtraflamy
Yeah, well that’s not entirely true. Many of the most successful had family support from very early. Good equipment, baseball academies, travel ball, personal trainers, private schools, middle class suburban environment. For most international players it is likely different story, but not all these players are coming up with nothing.
andrewgauldin
Given that a baseball player must be “good” enough to either go to college and play or good enough to get drafted out of high school, it means their parents or caregivers handed them everything up until they are signed by a major league team. Hence, they are handed mostly everything. Sure, they do their own work by exercising and working out etc, but so do the billionaires. It’s not working out in physical exhaustion, but the billionaires arguably worked harder, and definitely much smarter, but through other means.
By the way, working smarter not harder is totally lost in your train of thought.
At the end of the day, are we really going to pick sides because someone worked harder or not, or who is more entitled or not?
AngelDiceClay
As a Angel fan I can tell you Arte Moreno didn’t inherit his fortune. But does it really matter how they acquire their wealth?
There’s only 30 MLB owners. They have eaned the right to offer what they believe is fair. It’s not really their nor the players fault the season was delayed. It is my opinion that the MLBPA have ruined this season with petty counter offers. Once again I ask why don’t they bring in mediator to iron out their differences and bring back the game. Do the owners and players ever care about the fans?
ukpadre
Correct. Most of these people come from very wealthy families who had money in the first place. I guarantee you there are many many more working class people that are smarter and would work harder, but don’t have the capital or family wealth to give themselves the start needed because they need to spend it on luxuries like food and shelter instead of taking a small 1 million dollar handout from their parents.
prov356
ukpadre – “Most of these people come from very wealthy families who had money in the first place.”
Do you have a reference for that statement?
prov356
Being rich doesn’t mean you are immoral. Being rich is not a sin. I’ve never worked for a poor person.
dpsmith22
not sure where morality plays here. while I would argue that the owners own a business and as such deserve to attempt to turn a profit.
heater
Exactly why he got to become commissioner.
steven scott
baseball is run like a business the owners being the bosses and the players are the employes and they are not entitled to profits the business takes they get paid a certain pay and that is it. the company keeps its profits. the more profits it makes does not entitle the players to make anymore.
TradeBait
Maybe they should all just find regular jobs and forget about playing a game for a living. Club owners, coaching, players – just go get jobs. The year baseball died.
DarkSide830
id bet you quite a bit that baseball is back next year.
Ry.the.Stunner
I’ll bet you quite a bit that it’s back this year.
ThisGuy 2
I’ll be you quite a bit that it’s back last year
slowcurve
Nice bit
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
This year*
bkbkbkbk
This is literally a regular job. It’s not their fault you’re a bitter loser who couldn’t qualify for their position.
looongball
the comment from bkbkbkbk is the reason a lot of us stopped reading “Rumors”. knock off the hate.
dkcsmc1991
Correct
ukpadre
“This year baseball died”
So bye, bye, Miss American pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry…
ABCD
Hey, who put a hole in my apple pie?!
dkcsmc1991
Can we go back to 2019 please and redo all this?
datrain021
100% this
DarkSide830
im very much in the fastforward rather than the rewind camp
pnedwek
assuming there’s something to fast forward to
Robertowannabe
Where is a flying DeLorean when you really need one? Would be great to go back and go to Wuhan figure out how to keep the freaking vIris from spreading. Then we can have some bad cops fired while we are at it.
Gwynning
Don’t fast forward past Opening Day otherwise you’ll tear the time-space continuum! That means the Orioles would win it all and nobody wants that!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
You never know there 10s of fans may want that
dpsmith22
I do! lol
scarfish
Thought it said Dan Haley for a second. In which case, I could definitely see Mr HaleN penning such a grievous letter
Gwynning
MLBPA has drawn the line at 100%. Owners gave a juicy bit with the full service for this “half year”. Manfred will just mandate his 48 game solution early next week. All this bickering has made many fans salty and ruined potential for revenue in subsequent years. I hope everyone is happy… and healthy. Here’s to a better 2020 and it’s a legit title if my Pads win it!
warwhatisitgoodfor
It’s Mariners all the way. They can usually chunk together a decent 35 game run before the wheels fall off and play .300 ball rest of the way
Gwynning
It’s settled then! SEA vs. SD in the Series! I like our odds now! Hopefully the Astros get more bruises than wins, too!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
SD over Miami
SEA over Detroit in the LCS
Both have identical records. So they Roshambo to see who gets the home field advantage. If that goes more than 7 rounds. You get Bartolo Colon and another husky player race from home all the way around back home.
MarlinsFanBase
Nahhhh…Marlins are winning it all. We have the 2020 NL MVP, Jesus Aguilar. Marlins over White Sox after we beat the Padres in the NLCS and the White Sox beat the Rangers in the ALCS.
whynot 2
Haha!! thank you for the laugh
aladdinlee
Imho, there should be a full prorated pay if playoffs are to be played. If not, I think it’s fair to say the money game would be unbalanced. Plus, I believe there’s enough time to have at least half a season, aka 82 games
Gwynning
There were fringe bonuses for each team if there’s a Postseason, I think it was 50m per team, give or take. Everything about this just stinks to high heaven… everyone would have saved a lot of face if a deal was done sooner. And privately. Oh well, just more affirmation that nobody cares about Joe Q. Fan.
Patrick OKennedy
$50 million is the players’ pool for the postseason for all of them. Last year, they got an $80 million pool. Both sides have agreed that the players’ pool for the post season this year would be $50 million.
Gwynning
If so, I stand corrected. Post-bonus we had it calculated to 83% of pro rata. The players would just as soon opt for the 48 games at full pro rata. Thanks for clarification.
heater
Very true about the full service time thing. I forgot about that amongst all the other complaining. That itself is pretty big for players future earnings.
marcfrombrooklyn
He can’t mandate a 48-game season because that’s not a good faith at scheduling as many games as possible. That provision does not appear to be dependent upon revenue but rather on the health and safety concerns. It’s why MLB is couching its opposition to playing in November in terms of a resurgence of COVID-19 an not competition from the NFL or it being too cold to play night games in two-thirds of the parks. If they would agree to an 80+ game season if the players take a further haircut, then they have acknowledged that 80+ games are “possible.” This is about money and breaking the union and player solidarity in advance of the next CBA negotiation.
Gwynning
I sure hope you’re right because I would love more games… but at this rate, I’ll take 48. It will be in good faith; months of negotiations has yielded no deal. Manfred the Stoolie will say what the owners will want him to (no November ball, we’re playing games at a $480k loss per, etc.) and we will get 48 games at full pro rata. Just a dirty mess that could have been avoided. It shouldn’t be this difficult to resolve but I’ll reserve judgment on whether MLB or MLBPA is MORE to blame. The players clearly won’t agree to anything less than full pro rata, hampering any give and take going forward.
463doubleplay
Why is no one talking about the fact that there was a huge gray area in the players contracts on whether or not they would get paid full salaries even if they cancelled the season. Reports say there was no “pandemic clause” in their contracts. The players agreeing to not sue for full season salary if there was no season was by far the biggest concession made. Obviously they feel like they are getting taken advantage of now. This is all on the owners.
dpsmith22
not true. there is a clause that would have paid the players zero. it’s been discussed over and over.
the players are crying about making 3.4 mil instead of 17.5mil, while many people are starving and unemployed
steven scott
NO PLAY NO PAY.
Patrick OKennedy
TOXIC!
Halem’s letter doesn’t help matters and isn’t written in a tone that intends to reach a settlement. This does not bode well for the next round of CBA talks. And he will blame the players.
tigerdoc616
As much about the next CBA as it is about this season. With the tone the owners set, I don’t see this ending in an agreement.
Colorado Red
I think you are right.
Both sides are playing a dangerous game.
Soon, some of use are going to say Bleep you to both sides, and let them go BK.
neo
I also think the service time given away will not be as big a win for players as expected, especially after the owners set their plans for next CBA out.
The players likely figure they are happy to get through arbitration and into free agency sooner but I think the overall numbers won’t be generous to them. Plus, how much salary spike in arbitration can be expected after a year barely played?
The owners have been pushing hard and smartly since the last CBA and are ready to gain more advantage in the most adversarial labour relationship in sport. The owners are already steeled in missing out on income for the year and know that they can weather the loss better than players who have a shorter window to make the money and a greater need to resume to maintain their livelihood.
For all the chumps who say they are done with the game for the infighting that disrupts it, baseball ownership has no reason to think that chatter will be meaningful long term.
steven scott
I THINK THE PLAYERS ARE ONLY HURTING THEMSELVES BY HOLDING OUT. WAIT UNTIL FREE AGENCY THEN SEE COTRACT OFFERS DECLINE FOR TOP PLAYERS AND PERHAPS THEY WILL GIVE NO MORE GUARANTED MONEY EITHER. THEY GET PAID WAY TO MUCH MONEY ANYWAY.
Robertowannabe
Both sides have set a bad to e. The game will be shut down again before the next CBA is agreed to
JerseyShoreScore
Players can receive the same money for 50 games at full pro rata as they can for 70 games in the owner’s proposal. Why would they play 20 games for free, at greater risk to their health?
More importantly, players do not want to establish a terrible precedent that they are willing to play for less than full pay?
You know Manfred and the owners would cite past practice in future negotiations if the players did!
njbirdsfan
If you don’t play games for free, you’re a dirty socialist for wanting to get paid for the work that you do.
That’s what people who shill for billionaires actually sound like (not you of course, you get it)
Gwynning
You nailed it on the schedule/pay issue. “Sure, let’s play 20+ more games in a pandemic when we could get the same pay for 48 games!” said nobody, ever.
emac22
The players are afraid that they might set a precedent of helping out if there is a worldwide pandemic?
Are they afraid someone else might ask them for help if there is another global emergency?
LOL
Technically correct
The benches have already cleared, so you might as well keep throwing up and in.
Gwynning
Genius! High and tight is usually how I like my women but I like your style, good sir.
rxbrgr
Damn legal jargon makes this nearly undecipherable to us non-elites frequenting this site. No longer!
Gwynning
There are pictures in the middle of the pamphlet!
neo
Read the NY Post. They have all the best words.
roguesaw
Not everyone’s hands are big enough to hold a newspaper
Gwynning
Eddie Gaedel, is that you?
A'sfaninLondonUK
Hahaha
Now tempted to change my screen name to the ghost of Eddie Gaedel.
Talking of which – where the F is the ghost of Bill Veeck – he’d sort this out with a case of scotch and 200 smokes….
Jay25
The article seems to indicte that an independent arbitrator could be called upon to resolve the dispute. Maybe that’s a good approach for handling the 2020 season.
Jay25
I should have added: The owners obviously don’t feel comfortable sharing their books with the players, and the players are understandably suspicious of the owners’ claims of projected losses. Perhaps a third party could verify the owners’ claims and make a decision that would be fair to both sides.
Colorado Red
Neither side would agree to it.
heater
That should have been done weeks ago
JerseyShoreScore
The arbitrator could come in and mediate on games played, health agreement, etc. However, I do not believe an arbitrator can force players to play for less than what their negotiated contracts indicate they should receive per game.
looongball
If the arbitrator acts as quickly as in the Chris Bryant case we will have baseball by 2029…..probably.
fred-3
Canceling the season is just dumb. Did no one learn from ‘95?
Senioreditor
94’
joblo
I learned from ’95. There was a full season.
Questionable_Source
They were both shortened seasons. 144 games in ’95. They lost the end of ’94 and the beginning of ’95.
tommytbom
At least there are other sports that are positive and really will be back for their followers. So we can put MLB on the shelve where they belong or is it the dumpster ? These whining crumbs will be sorry !
Ancient Pistol
I’m not so sure. The NFL has been unwatchable with all the commercials for the past few years and the NBA is nothing more than a dunk contest were everyone travels.
Golf = blah. NASCAR = never got the fascination watching cars go round a circle 200 times. F1 = the only true racing event but their not coming back soon. ATP tennis = 2020 is probably dead. NHL = no one really cares.
So, there’s really nothing left.
DTD_ATL
Thankfully, most don’t share your opinions
66TheNumberOfTheBest
This comes down to how many owners understand business and how many do not.
How many of the owners are self made men who understand how to make money and how many just inherited either their wealth or the team itself?
Just off the top of my head…
On the silver spoon list, you have the Pirates, Yankees, Orioles, Nats (I believe), Tigers plus whoever I’m forgetting.
I realize now that I don’t actually know (or care, other than to make this point) who owns most of the teams, but I can’t definitively name a legitimately self made owner.
Is whoever owns your local/favorite team self made (and thus, likely has some business sense) or just living off of someone else’s work (and may not have a clue how business works)?
Ancient Pistol
Wow! This comment, and I don’t mean to be too disrespectful, is not well-informed.
CNBC, a few years back used a baseball analogy to describe inherited wealth and where business leaders started. Those starting in the batter’s box comprised 35% of all billionaires on the Forbes 400 (the guy from Oracle is an example). 22% started at first base and came from comfortable but not rich backgrounds (Zuckerberg). 11.5% started at second with $1 million of sizable startup capital (Trump). 7% were born on third inheriting more than $50 million (Koch bros.). Finally, only 21% inherited enough to make this list outright (Mars bars guy).
The idea of inherited wealth is widely misunderstood my many people.
filthyrich
How many teams are even run directly by an owner?
I’d imagine a lot of CEOs deal with Manfred on the owner’s behalf?
Nats- Lerner Enterprises, owned by Ted Lerner, 94 years old. I’d consider him pretty self made. MLB not exactly the big money maker for this company and I’d be surprised if there isn’t a CEO for Nationals matters.
Jays- Rogers Communications, again I’d be surprised if a CEO for Jays matters wasn’t involved with Manfred, but perhaps the Chair of Rogers Control Trust, Edward Rogers III.
Silver spoon or family legacy to live up to?
MLB not exactly the big money maker for this company either.
Braves- Liberty Media, similar to Nats/Jays.
Founder/owner of Liberty John C. Malone lived up to his father’s engineer legacy and then some.
At what point does the spoon become silver?
A lot of these guys got educated seems to be a common pattern.
Realty, finance and law being another common pattern.
Angels, Mets, White Sox, Rays, Brewers, Marlins, Astros, Indians, Reds, Red Sox, Dbacks owners could all be considered self made. Education didn’t cost an arm and leg when a lot of these guys were growing up.
Even the Orioles owner is tough to call a silver spoon case. Father owned a local tavern. I think attending law school at night with valedictorian work ethic was a pretty key piece.
Regardless, I’d guess whether they ‘know’ business or not, the owners are all about whatever option gets them the most profit. Some of the owners seem like true baseball fans but operating at a loss is just not something that seems realistic.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Neither Lerner nor Angelos still run those teams, their kids do.
Rogers and Liberty are corporations, not people.
Not saying that no MLB owner is self made, I’m sure many are, but I can’t name them.
On the other hand, I can name the Bob Nutting’s of the world (who only know how to bleed the wealth they were given and not how to grow more), plus the kids who just waited for their turn.
Collectively, the MLB owners really might not know better.
filthyrich
Thanks for added clarity.
Maybe I should look at the list of team Presidents rather than the list of owners that wikipedia provides?
Who actually deals with Manfred in most of these cases? Someone with a mandate on profit maximization in all cases I would imagine.
mike156
Let them litigate for the next five years, for all I care. I love baseball, and whenever it reappears, I’ll be happy to see it. But I think this is just garbage. Why on Earth would players agree to an extremely short season (for which they will get paid a fraction of what was previously agreed to) and then play an extended playoff (for virtually nothing). Yes, the players should make some additional concessions from their last offer. No, they shouldn’t accept a cram down bad deal.
The real target here isn’t just getting the players to agree to a bad deal. It’s the Owners attempt to bust the Union in advance of the next CBA.
DTD_ATL
Because some additional money is better than no additional money.
thornt25
There’s a general perspective that any money tied to the playoffs might as well be $0. I really don’t get it. The playoffs are really likely to complete, so there is a really easily attainable pay increase for the players here.
andyday
Someone needs to start another baseball league and run it like a business. The owners and Manfred have no sense how much it hurts MLB, in the short as well as the long run, for them to do everything possible to alienate both the players and the fans. A competing league would clean up, by treating players like partners, and working with them to make the game appealing to current and future fans alike. This clown squad of whiny, entitled trust-funders could never handle the competition.
filthyrich
BLoP: Baseball League of Puig!
Who else didn’t get signed… Rodney, Harvey, Ellsbury..
Jose Bautista wants to pitch? Sign him up.
Try to get Ichiro, he can definitely pitch.
Julio Franco and Jamie Moyer can’t possibly be done yet?! Sign them up!
Don’t worry ladies, Bartolo Colon will be courted heavily to join this randy crew of little and big BLoPpers.
Start making a push on guys like Yadi, Yuli, DIdi, Asdrubal, Yoenis as soon as November hits.
I dunno. I’m probably (definitely) crazy but I really want some tickets to see this BLoP.
Gocubsgo1986
Scabs get your gear ready. We need baseball.
Indianfan
Nope, don’t need no scab baseball. You can see that at 5:30 a.m. or anytime if you record it. Football, basketball, hockey etc., will be here soon. All this greed bag standoff is proving is I (and many others) can do without ML baseball. I wouldn’t have believed it, but it’s true.
dalrob
Baseball is nearing it’s end and everybody involved knows it, hence, they are all trying to make as much money, now, as humanly possible. The game is virtually unwatchable for anyone new. The games are far too long, the shifts and strikeouts are not entertaining and the umpires have far too big a role. They are getting what they can. Baseball is not attracting new fans and people will not care about it. This is suicide, and they know it.
DTD_ATL
Anyone who thinks the game is unwatchable or too long is an idiot, plain and simple
dalrob
Obviously, you are someone with far more intelligence than me. Like what I said, that is just an opinion. You like 4 hour games? You must be holed up in your parents’ basement with nothing else to do. I go to a 7 PM Jays game and I am not home until well after midnight. Game is an hour too long.
prov356
The average 9 inning game is 3 hours or less. So either time is slower in Canada or someone is exaggerating.
filthyrich
Nearly 10% of games go more than 9 innings, not a huge factor against the point you’re getting at, but discounting any factor when you’re calling someone out for exaggerating is a bold move.
Average game time for the past 8 seasons has only been in the range of 3hr-3hr10min.
Twenty minutes long maybe.
Games were 2:51-2:55 in 2006-2008 which were the highest attendance years in history.
I can certainly vouch that time does indeed go slower on Vancouver Island, but I didn’t realize the same applies in Toronto?!
Watching the Jays at Safeco, 7pm start, does lead to getting ‘home’ -(back to hotel) well after midnight, however most of that time is spent in post game drunkness.
If MLB doesn’t resume, I will really grow invested in the KBO pennant race.
Better timing than 2003 for another try at a Canadian Baseball League?
Or perhaps Yasiel Puig should start his own league.
Time really going slow on Vancouver Island tonight, I’ll stop with the daydream haha.
whynot 2
I didn’t realize the game had been facing a decade of declining attendance and revenue. Player contracts at all time low levels… Thank you for enlightening us on the true state of this moribund relic of the past
dalrob
Attendance is declining and demographics show that not many under 40 watch the game but you can go back under your rock. The “revenue” comes from the fact that they have squeezed every penny out of everything they can. How about a $12.00 canid beer?
treday
Yeah the MLB generated a league record $10.7 billion in revenue last year, but you’re right, baseball is on its last legs.
dbec72
90 games at the 80% make it happen Manfred! Play ball asap!
looongball
You can bet that whatever Manfred does, it will NOT be in the best interest of baseball.
tytomkiel
Screw it – NHL here I come…anyone else?
prov356
Uh, nope.
the kutch
Manfred makes me wish Brockmire were Commisioner….
Gwynning
Pretty sure Brockmire could fire Angel Hernandez! Sounds like a great episode
condemned
Such an opportunity squandered. MLB could’ve been the only sport going… sparking tons of new fans who maybe didn’t follow baseball in the past, but due to COVID, were looking for entertainment. Could’ve grown the game immensely. What a loss. Now more people that ever are going to be turned off in the battle of billionaires vs millionaires.
dschap02
They’re baseball players not gladiators. Who are we to demand entertainment at the risk of a players life ?
Simple Simon
pfft – not below 40 yo without underlying condition
DTD_ATL
Risk of life? Asinine. Should we list how many basic daily activities they’re more likely to die of? Or would that force you to wake up and step into reality?
dalrob
Huh?
Kevin28786
Such drama. Geezus. Nobody has to play baseball. They can quit their jobs just like anyone else. This is absurd.
emac22
No one is demanding anything. except the players…
The idea of the union allowing those who want to play to play is the issue. If some player need to only play if they get the full game check they should take the year off. This obviously is not a normal year. Most MLB and MILB players would rather play.
pinkerton
There’s more leaks in this league than the damn vegetable aisle at a TRADER JOE’S
Dotnet22
It’s leeks.
Senioreditor
Can we just get to an arbitrator already?
Andy51
What a dysfunctional group. Not a good sign for CBA negotiations that are just ahead.
dschap02
I don’t think the players want to play…. if you were in your 20’s early 30’s like most guys in the league, with more than enough money to live on, would you want to take the risk of being infected by covid?
MLB is a wash this year and we’ll be lucky if there’s an NFL this fall.
Simple Simon
Chance of dying from covid below 40 yo without an underlying condition is akin to getting run over crossing a street
wahoomaniac
The odds of being affected are irrelevant if it’s your health at stake, The question is how serious are the effects? There are young people getting strokes, losing lung capacity, testing positive for weeks on end. It is potentially career-ending. The odds might be akin to hitting a lottery, but it’s not your health at stake, so your odds are meaningless.
emac22
Just so you know what it’s like not to be a psychopath.
If someone gets infected they go home, go to work and wherever else they go infecting people along the way. A normal healthy brain would be able to recognize that risk as a bad and dangerous thing that should be avoided as much as possible.
Those without a healthy brain can adopt some basic rules to help maintain an awareness of others and their right to exist even when it doesn’t benefit you.
Lesson two will be tomorrow. In that lesson we will cover the ways people can suffer from illness without actually dying. Part one of that lesson is the permanent damage Covid does to the hearts, lungs and other organs in many of the survivors.
BleedzBlue
Oh my! would you look at the big healthy brain on MAC. He’s so smart he would never confuse psychopath and sociopath. Is part 2 where you tell us how irresponsible we are for not wearing a mask EVERYWHERE and that the shutdown must last until there is a cure? Why take any risks at all? I mean, way more people die in traffic accidents in my state than COVID so everyone should turn in their keys. Wrap your healthy a$$ in bubble wrap and walk to the grocery store for those essential pop tarts. Can’t pay because you are now unemployed? Don’t worry, Uncle Sam will borrow more against your grandchildren’s future so you can live at home. Yes – you have a right to exist. No – you do not have a right to destroy people’s livelihood.
ElectricEddie
How about some minor league games AAA ?
Stop this foolishness
geotheo
Problem with that is -are the minor league facilities available? Minor league towns don’t necessarily have the resources large cities do to maintain health and safety requirements. Bringing the minor leaguers up and calling them major leaguers wouldn’t be feasible. And what minor leaguers do you bring up. Using my beloved Baltimore Orioles as an example. No way they would want their top prospects ( Rutschman, Grayson Rodriguez, DL Hall) starting their service time clock. The hope is that Rutschman will be the face and leader of the Orioles in the near future. Can’t have a “scab” as your team leader. Ask the replacement players of 95 how they were received by their teammates after the strike. Most of the players that would fit the bill of replacement players would be the fringe players that are being released every day by teams. Don’t see any chance of minor league players suiting up any time soon
mlbfan
I can see future two-sport players choosing their other sport over baseball. Go back closer to what they agreed on in March and let’s play ball.
richt
Oy vey. How much Latin can be in one post?
Also, Manfred has always stunk. Since he was deputy commissioner. He’s got to go.
stlsoxfan
I am willing to pay full boat on my Direct TV MLB package if that helps the whining owners financial position enough to get this done.
Hopefully somebody will put on their big boy pants and understand what they are doing to the game and get this resolved!
tigerdoc616
Time for Congress to remove MLB’s anti-trust exemption.
Backatitagain
Unlock international signing because that is all we have. No reason to wait until July.
Col_chestbridge
Honestly, it’s a great call of a bluff by the PA. The owners can absolutely be profitable if they run games, even with no fans in stands for a time (although by the looks of how states are reacting, that might not be required no matter if it would be better off for public health). Gate is about 30% of revenue, they save money on labor for not having stands/concessions in, and they’ve already saved on draft expenditures. They’re already profitable enterprises, even if yearly cash flow isn’t positive the yearly increase in valuation means they’re still ahead. Maybe not by a lot, but I very much doubt they’ll be behind.
Individual teams might be, but that’s because the league chooses not to split revenues equally. The MLB tries to get the players to accept less because of this all the time, but that’s the league’s choice. If their complaint is about smaller market teams doing worse, they have every ability to rectify that problem themselves.
They could make money holding an 81 game season at full pro rated amounts right now. They’re just trying to hold out for more.
jd396
If you think the league is going to be looking at 70% of their usual revenue and so nothing else has any reason to change, can you sign this Tony Clark rookie card for me?
Robertowannabe
@ Col.chestbridge—Ok, you own a house It is worth $1.5million now. It’s value keeps rising yearly. You bought it for $700 thousand. You pay $3000 on your mortgage, another $1000 for the escrow. You have utilities, car payments, a wife and 3 kids all needing fed, clothed and assorted other expenses. Due to the Pandemic, your income drops 30%. How is your house going up in value By more than double going to help you pay your mortgage, car payments, utilities and other expenses when your income and cash flow are cut? That is what you are saying the owners can do with the increase in the value of their franchise.
FishyHalo
The problem here is your average team makes more like 60-70% off in game experience if you will.
The owners get money from the vendors who use their space to promote their product locally. Every single replay in the stadium has a sponsorship, every inning has a sponsorship. The cups you drink inside the stadium have a sponsorship, the drink options you have inside the stadium are sold along with the drinks you buy.
There’s more money being made every game by the corporate sponsorships than all the sums of the fans ticket sales, parking and good/service buying.
clgreeson7
Once again the fans continue getting screwed in the end!
jd396
Manfred and Clark deserve each other, baseball deserves better.
DTD_ATL
Both are the biggest laughing stocks in the enitre sports world. They make Goodell look like a genius.
balloonknots
Business owners would get killed in court if this went in front of a labor law judge. A owners get business value appreciation not the laborers and you can’t ask employees to taken on more risk going to work for less pay.
kwolf68
This is how it really works, and mostly always has. It’s why unions have been busted in other industries and part of the reason we have out sourcing. Rober barons never really went away.
Rangers29
Imagine standing outside of a house trying to negotiate a hostage situation, and you just start yelling at the hostage keeper… Wow MLB, I envision a strike in the near future.
jnorthey
All PR at this point. The two side know what a final deal needs to look like and could settle it in 10 minutes if they’d sit down on a zoom call for those 10 minutes but refuse to do so in order to show the world how big they are (and to their bosses – owners or players depending). It is all a show to prep for the big showdown after 2021 is done. Idiotic posturing, much like we have gone through in the past. Clark knows he needs a big win as players are not happy with him after being taken to the cleaners last time. The dumb thing is he has a win in front of him – the league before this season added another ML team’s worth of players by adding the 26th man. That is a massive win for any union.
Clark has made the mistake of making a ‘no partial pay’ thing his hill to die on here. Otherwise he could go with something like 90% and work towards a middle ground now, instead he has to get 100% or look weak and maybe lose his job.
Trying to think of solutions… a compromise he might take now is ‘we will play double headers on Sundays with the 2nd game being ‘free’ to expand the schedule. Manfred could tell owners it is getting more games for TV without cost and thus safe face with ownership, Clark could tell players he saved their pay. That would add 13 games potentially through September. If the schedule has, say 72 games to start that gets you 85 total. But owners only want to pay for 1/3rd of a season’s pay so might not work. Sigh.
Hopefully Clark can take deferred payments and owners accept that to reduce cash flow issues in 2020. That seems the simplest solution to save face for both sides. No pay cut, but also not being out the cash today. Maybe to help with cash flow for 2021 have a 10% deferment that year too, 25-33% for this year.
As I said, it is all ego at this stage, with money mattering, but with millionaires and billionaires the cash is more a representation of that ego. Hopefully they can find a way to save face for both sides and get past this so we get baseball soon. Sadly I fear this is a warm up for a nightmare in the 2021/22 offseason.
Chatdawg09
One thing I’ve been wondering this whole time is whether Clark has been taking a tougher stance to make up for his “loser” tag from his last negotiation, and to what extent this has hampered the current state of affairs
The Human Toilet
The strike of 2020, followed by the watered down 2021 season and the. Followed by the lockout of 2022.
MLB rather commute suicide then work this out.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
The Arbitrator will go in favor of the MLBPA for this. 72 games. 100% salaries. Kiss and make up give us some baseball
scottaz
Why not send a nasty letter to the MLBPA? They, from Tony Clark on down are idiots. They aren’t willing to compromise. They will reject the latest offer and regurgitate their same ridiculous stance that they should be totally uneffected by the pandemic that is impacting everyone else. They can’t possibly live on a few millions less per year. They weren’t smart enough to negotiate a good last contract, so they must stay hard line even during this COVID-19 economic dilemma, lest they end up with a weak negotiating position for the next contract negotiation. They will strike rather than negotiate the next contract. So, why not just impose the 48 game season and be done with this nonsense!
hk27
A non-strike in progress….
homerheins
We’ve been hearing so much about how bad a franchise is for cutting minor leaguers and now players are prolonging the process of starting baseball. Seems like their decision is also causing harm to those so many of you so dearly care about, or maybe you’re like me and you’re honest that no one would care if we were watching and discussing baseball games. Maybe their all a bunch of greedy brats who need to just gain some perspective that people need baseball as an outlet. It would be so much better than being on her commenting
Angels & NL West
If you have purchased a car or home, you know negotiations can get ugly before finally consummating a deal.
Now imagine negotiating a multi billion dollar purchase with someone you have previously conducted business with but don’t like or trust. In fact, their very sight sickens you… that’s MLB v MLBPA.
After a series of very public counter proposals, Manfred and Clark will reach an agreement and we will play baseball in 2020.
And we will all live happily ever after until the new CBA is negotiated…
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
If you’re a business owner, I can’t even imagine that you’d write a nasty letter to your employees and leak it to the press if you truly wanted to resolve the situation…
88good ol days
If you were paying your employees an insane amount of money to “play” their jobs I’m pretty sure you’d want everyone to know how greedy and selfish they were. I’d kill to play baseball for a living. I’d play during a lightening storm with the field covered in great white sharks and alligators for minimum wage. Screw the players. I’m done with MLB.
emac22
If I offered my workers 1.5 billion even though they kept saying “we want full pay because you’ll lose 4 billion with no season” I’d be mad, I’d release it to everyone and tell you this is your last chance to solve this via negotiation.
cjvirnig
If owners think casual sports fans will care one iota about a sham 50 game baseball season (played in empty ballparks with road broadcasters doing games from their basements) — they’re completely delusional. Especially when you consider it’ll be going up against the NBA & NHL playoffs. Under such a scenario, it would be ridiculous and insulting if stats and records count and if a “World Series champion” is crowned. Nobody will ever recognize the legitimacy of whoever wins that title.
Instead, MLB needs to do the right thing and make it all a fully immersive exhibition season. Any player who wants to play can play. Any player who doesn’t want to play doesn’t have to play. Plus, if it’s an exhibition, the league and the players can do cool stuff that normally wouldn’t be allowed: mic all the players, let them do Korea-style bat flips for homers, experiment with robot umps, fine-tune the pitch clock, use crazy bullpen carts, etc. Speaking as a huge baseball fan, that would be an exponentially better and more palatable scenario than trying to foist some total B.S. 50 game sham schedule on us and then trying to convince us that everything is cool and it all counts. No. Not gonna work.
emac22
You’re completely delusional if you think an 80 game season is any better than a 50 game season or that no season is acceptable.
The 50 game complaint is the dumbest and most obviously manufactured argument I’ve ever heard.
whynot 2
The length of the regular reason is completely arbitrary. It’s 162 games because someone decided on that number made sense financially, but it could have been 100, 122 or 129 just as easily. To question the legitimacy of whoever end up being champion is just silly.
cjvirnig
A 50 game regular season is completely illegitimate by any conceivable measure. Would you be okay with a 5 game NFL season?
Bart Doherty
The Players want us, the fans to side with them. The Owners want us the fans to side with them.
What about us, who sides with us ?
It’s time that we make all of these boneheads listen.
Both sides are ruining our national past time with their acrimonious stupidity. The two sides never take into account, what damage their moronic actions do to the game that we the fans love.
It’s time to stop bickering and play ball, for us, the fans. Or, maybe it’s time that we stop supporting any of you.
bigeasye
Agreed
xSpecBx
Well, bye-bye baseball. After you cancel this season and strike next season, you will kill what fan base you have left and be about as relevant as MLS. Could have been playing with limited competition and giving people something to entertain themselves once they ran out of things to binge on Netflix.
yanksallday
Barf
yankfann
No season.
socalbum
What a shame; great game derailed by ugly business. MLB and the Players Association deserve each other.
bigeasye
Break up the union and let the players that want to play, play. Honestly I’d rather see that than people fighting to get 15 mill instead of 11 mill. I’m guessing the fringe players and the guys on rookie contracts would be happy to play for whatever.
88good ol days
Players are too greedy. Get rid of them all and play the minor leaguers. I’m done with baseball.
NewMexicoLobo
54 game season here we come.
At least I would said the right before “the letter”.
martevious
Can MLB clone Adam Silver as their commissioner?
emac22
I’d rather see a baseball model where MLB salaries were capped at 5 million and the major leagues subsidized the oversize minor league system that gave us teams all over the country. I’d enjoy the game more if a few superstars quit because they weren’t paid enough and minor leaguers got raises. Instead, tens of thousands of jobs will disappear due to MILB contraction so that a few guys can win the lotto and the rest of the players shoot themselves in the foot to preserve the dream.
Most of the players want to play & need the money. Instead of good faith negotiations the union dismisses everything except full pay per game. As a fan I have zero respect for a players right to earn 20 million dollars while someone in the minors needs to get food stamps or a second job to eat. I have no issue if players want to sit out the season and not get paid but there are way too many guys I’d be happy to watch play who would be happy to share in a 1 or 1.5 billion dollar pool in this pandemic shortened season.
It’s time for the guys who need normal pay to sit down and let people who are more desperate fill in.
SportsFan0000
Great time to just go on strike, cancel the season and work on the new comprehensive labor agreement before it expires…Lots of issues to work out.
Mpwerner1977
It this does not get figured out MLB will be doomed!! Unless there were another Sammy and Mark situation between Tw homerun chasers, lol!
Mpwerner1977
MLB up for grabs? Is the MLB office secretly in CHAZ Territory
Mpwerner1977
It this does not get figured out MLB will be doomed!! Unless there were another Sammy and Mark situation between Two homerun chasers, lol!