Denard Span has played 11 seasons at the big league level, totaling 1359 games and 5956 plate appearances, but the former Twins, Nationals, Giants, Rays and Mariners outfielder confirmed to MLBTR this week that he’s suited up for the final time.
“I would say, in my heart, once I didn’t sign a contract going into the 2020 season, that was it for me,” said Span. Retirement, however, is a bittersweet step for the 36-year-old, who’d have preferred to walk away from the game on his own terms. Instead, changes to the free-agent landscape and the manner in which teams evaluate players left Span feeling conflicted as he sought a new team in the 2018-19 offseason.
“I’m a man of principles, and when those principles aren’t met, I can’t go along with it,” Span explained. “…I honestly recognize that I’m not the player that I was when I was in D.C. or when I was in Minnesota. But, I still know that I have value. I’m not a center fielder or premier player anymore, but that doesn’t mean I can’t help a ballclub win a championship or win games. I’m not the $12MM player anymore, but from what I did [in 2018], that doesn’t tell me I’m worth $1MM or worth $1.5MM or worth league minimum. I got an offer for league minimum. It was just unreal.”
Span indeed put together a solid campaign in 2018, tallying 501 plate appearances between the Rays and Mariners with a combined .261/.341/.419 batting line. He connected on 11 home runs, 22 doubles and seven triples while swiping nine bases in 13 tries. Both OPS+ and wRC+ agreed that his bat was 12 percent better than that of a league-average hitter. Through 137 games, Baseball-Reference pegged him at 2.1 wins above replacement — FanGraphs at 1.5.
“For me, how do you go from 500 at-bats, being a productive player — you look over the course of my career, I’ve never been a problem in the clubhouse, either — how do you equate that to $1.5MM or all the way down to league minimum?” Span asked rhetorically.
The timing of the offers was difficult on Span and his young family as well, ranging from late January through the first week of the regular season. Any offers received were of the “take it or leave it” variety, Span added, as opposed to a few years ago when there was more negotiation. Once Spring Training was underway, he finally received offers from multiple clubs at once — on minor league deals.
“It just was like, ’How did I get to this point where now I have to prove that I can play when I just had 500 at-bats last year?'” Span continued.
Span’s comments strike a similar tone to those recently expressed by former Reds second baseman Scooter Gennett. The 30-year-old Gennett, who didn’t sign a contract this winter, spoke to Doug Fernandes of the Sarasota Herald-Tribune last month about “not conforming” to what he “[doesn’t] think is right.” Gennett set a value on his skills and on the trade-off of being “220 days away from family,” ultimately opting not to compromise. Span viewed the decision similarly.
“I just couldn’t see myself at this point in my career giving in or compromising myself — especially where I’m at in my life, being a husband and a father,” said Span, who is married and has two children under three years old. “It’s already hard enough to be away from my family, and now they want me to play for less than what I humbly feel I deserve. I’m not saying I’m worth $10MM. I’m saying I’m worth more than what they offered me.”
Span and Gennett are hardly the only big leaguers frustrated by the changes to the free-agent landscape in recent years. We’re not far removed from a 2017-18 offseason that proved to be one of the most frigid in recent memory for free agents. The lack of activity on the middle and lower tiers of the free-agent market that winter helped to set the stage for much of the league/union tension that has negatively impacted the currently ongoing return-to-play talks and will certainly impact the next wave of collective bargaining in 2021.
While it’s true that the game’s top stars — particularly those still shy of 30 — have generally been able to secure considerable free-agent contracts, the 2017-18 and 2018-19 offseasons also featured an erosion of the “middle class” of free agents. (There’s a reason Adam Jones is preparing to play in Japan, after all.) Span himself noted that not long ago, veterans at the same point in their careers as he was following the 2018 season could even reasonably expect to find two-year deals. Rajai Davis, David DeJesus and Chris Young are among the numerous outfielders who signed two-year deals in the $10MM range from 2013-16.
In today’s game, comparable veterans like Kevin Pillar, Brock Holt and Asdrubal Cabrera have begun to settle for one-year pacts, and those who do find multi-year guarantees typically take a smaller salary. Wilmer Flores (two years, $6.25MM this offseason), Austin Jackson (two years, $6MM in 2018) and Howie Kendrick (two years, $7MM in 2018) are a few examples. With teams now suddenly experiencing unprecedented revenue losses, and with a likely aggressive wave of non-tenders on the horizon, it seems unlikely that the trend will change anytime soon. It’s eminently possible that other veterans will feel obligated to follow the same path as Span.
All told, Span will officially walk away from baseball with a lifetime .281/.347/.398 batting line, 71 home runs, 265 doubles, 72 triples, 185 stolen bases, 773 runs scored, 490 runs batted in and 28 wins above replacement. The 2002 first-round pick walked in 8.6 percent of his plate appearances, struck out at just a 12 percent clip and was a positive contributor on the bases and with the glove for the vast majority of his time in the big leagues. Between his draft bonus, his first extension with the Twins and his three-year deal with the Giants, Span earned more than $58MM as a player. His 2018 production suggests that he could likely have added to those totals, but Span will instead turn his full focus to his family, taking solace in the fact that he stuck to his convictions:
“At the end of the day, I want people to get that I didn’t play because of principles. Point blank.”
Couldn’t get a major league contract is more than likely why he walked away
He said he got an offer for league minimum.
Which he was deeply insulted by, it appears. And perhaps he should better understand that most teams are working in step with market forces and avoid spending any more than necessary, not paying every dollar needed to give proper respect to a guy’s career. It’s a ruthless game of finance and a lot of players need not take it personally if they want to continue their careers when no competition for their services exists while they no longer offer anything in demand on the market.
Market forces have nothing to do with it. MLB itself is a monopoly enshrined as such in Federal law, and then its owners collude to save money by diluting their product, leaving above average players like Span on the sidelines while they play replacement level filler. The best thing real baseball fans could hope for would be a competitor leave in North America with franchise organizations that actually want to win and that are willing to pay the best players and to highlight the fun of the game.
I believe the league minimum offer was for the 2019 season and he received that after the season commenced. The story is not entirely clear as written, but my interpretation is he was offered $1.5M by some team for 2019, passed hoping for a better offer that didn’t come, then some other team offered him league minimum once the season was underway, he passed again, so he sat out 2019. Now a year older and a year removed from the game, he received no guaranteed offers for 2020, probably was faced with only Spring Training invites to make a team, passed on those, so he finally decided to retire realizing MLB teams forced with cutting expenses won’t be offering anything now. I’m sure he could still secure an invite and a shot at some team’s expanded taxi squad, which will lead to MLB playing time, but that would only net him a prorated form of league minimum. So he retired.
He should have taken the $1.5M last year. That’s the lesson players like Span and Gennett have to learn. The game’s middle class are being squeezed, but $1.5M is still a lot of money. Pride comes before the fall. Just ask Span.
When you’ve made $56M in your career, like Span, you don’t have to do anything. You think he really needs another $1.5M? This was about principle and pride. Good for him.
As a Nats fan, I loved Span. Great guy. The problem here is 2 fold.
1. That Span thinks he will get contracts that similiar players go at younger ages. DeJesus, Young, Davis got 2-3 year deals worth 5ish Mil/year in their early 30s. Span was entering his age 35 season. There is typically a significant drop off around then, and none of those players above were particularly able to sustain solid careers after that.
2. MLB Owners finally wised up and stopped over paying players for bench guys. Span might have been able to be a starter on another team, but not many teams want to commit a corner OF spot to a guy who will bat .250 and hit 10 HRs, assuming he’s healthy enough to play a full season. Which in 11 years, he only played 130+ 6 times. Only twice did he even get to 150 games. His last 3 year average of .266/.334/.407 is solid, but not spectacular. Teams have also realized, why pay him $6-7m when you can play a guy like Andrew Stevenson, or a Brian Goodwin for less. Span’s speed doesn’t play up like it used to when he would steal 20-30 bases
The market took a considerable down turn with Adam Jones only getting $3m. I’m still blown away teams didn’t offer him more. I had him pegged at 3 years/36m.
Brian Goodwin? Brian Goodwin? His defense is worse than Span, and he’s a K machine with little power.
There must be veteran players who would be glad to get something other than a minor league invitation. But who knows, maybe Span made up the story that he had an offer at minimum to soothe his hurt ego. My sympathies to him as he makes the transition. Never easy to leave it all behind, especially not on his own terms.
Why would you even think he was making up offers?
At least he got his 10 years service time. He’s fully vested at the max pension.
and he made over 20 million. I feel so sorry for him……league minimum is 4+ times my salary
Dpsmith, Span made $56M, not $20M. He’s doing just fine I’m sure. If he’s not, then he did some foolish things with his money.
Dpsmith, so you’re making $140,000 a year? What’s wrong with that? When you’re 60 years old and your company eliminates your job, are you going to accept another job for $70,000 or just retire early? I know a lot of factors are in play to answer that, but Span has the means to retire.
Your jealousy is showing. Why do you care what someone else makes?
Oh the pain, who are you talking to? Because I’m not jealous of anyone making as much money as they can. I was just laying out facts.
He was a fine player, and I respect him if he wants to walk away. Too many guys, imho, have made a ton of money, and then try to hold on for 3 years for relatively little money.
Jones, OTOH, refused a trade to a playoff contender, because he didn’t want to move his family. And then moves to Japan?
Yep. Adam Jones simply did not want to play for the Phillies at that time. For whatever reason.
Maybe because it’s the Phillies LOL
If Jones would rather play in Japan over the MLB, then he’s not a bright man.
He wanted to play everyday and pad his career counting stats. He would’ve been a 4th outfielder in Philly. He probably delusionally thought he still had a chance to make a run at 3000 hits and Hall of Fame. He was only 33 and was already at almost 2000 career hits.
If Adam Jones thought he had a shot at the HOF, then he’s delusional.
Well, to be fair, Harold Baines (2886 career hits) made the HOF despite almost no defensive value and Johnny Damon probably would’ve made the HOF if he had gotten to 3000 hits. He got awfully close and likely would’ve gotten 3000 hits if Boras didn’t make him sit out early portion of 2012 to wait for a better offer.. He eventually signed with Cleveland, struggled that year due to late start and no spring training, got released that summer, and never played again. If he had taken an offer early that offseason, he could’ve padded his stats for 2-3 more years and got to 3000 hits.
There’s a pretty big difference between being asked if you want to immediately start work in another state and when you no longer have a job, accepting an offer for one in another country. One is immediate and unnecessary, the other you have a lot of time to setup and you have less options for work
Never understood all the hate that Jones received over it all
Ignoring the obvious, realtime. Adam Jones was all about the money and never about the rings. That is without question who he is and what he’s about. He makes millions; suck it up, play for a contender for a couple months and smile. The Japan signing basically said everything we needed to know, if we didn’t learn that from the Arizona signing.
yes you obviously don’t have ANY understanding of who Adam Jones is. One of the greatest players as far as charities and off the field fan interaction
Who cares about rings if you’re just sitting on the bench? He was only 33 years old at the time and already had almost 2000 career hits. He probably wanted to make a run at 3000 hits and make the Hall of Fame. Padding stats everyday playing for bad teams is one way to do it.
And? That was his right to do that.
I think the age of his kids has a lot to do with it too. If they were teenagers it may be a little different
Rare to see a player retire with more career triples than homers.
Greatest stat ever. Sam Crawford 309 triples. 97 HR.
That’s amazing!!! Thank you for sharing!!
I just looked up his Wikipedia. 97 homeruns and he was also a 2x home run leader.
Ty Cobb 295 Triples & 117 Home Runs.
Ty led the league in Triples 4 times & Home Runs once.
Cobb led the league in Triples in 08, 11, 17 & 18
Crawford led the league in Triples in 02, 03, 10, 13, 14 & 15 (only 02 was not as a Tiger)
Great Tiger Team Mates!
This really got me thinking. Cobb and Ozzie.
I thought maybe Tony Gwynn, but 135 homers, 85 triples. Rod Carew retired with 112 triples, 92 homers. I’m trying to think guys with a decent BA and speed but low power… Lou Brock had more homers than triples (141/149)…
Maury Wills, 71/20… Probably a lot of “old school” shortstops on the list…
Okay, here’s a silly result filed under “too much time on my hands.” At the moment, there are 28 men who have hit over 500 career homers in MLB. Who hit the most triples? The answer didn’t surprise me (Willie Mays, 140), but second place did – Babe Ruth with 136. Second to last on the list, Frank Thomas (12), and dead last, Mark McGwire, who hit only 6 triples in his career… 4 of which came in 1987, his first full year in the majors.
I’ll stop now.
Deion Sanders. Larry Bowa. Luis Alicea. Tommy Herr. Lance Johnson. The list is long and quite a few HOF from dead ball era. Wagner. Marranville. Speaker. Joe Jackson. Sisler. Modern Day, Dodgers Manager, Dave Roberts. Juan Pierre. Christian Guzman. Michael Bourn….and more.
Yeah, the dead ball era makes sense. I’m sure there were plenty of speedy infielders, too… maybe a lot of the Latin players from the 60s and 70s would be on the list. Probably a high percentage of the career stolen base leaders as well.
GIven Ruth’s reputation as a reckless base runner, I wonder how many of his doubles were scored as such after he was thrown out trying for even more triples.
Ultimate dead ball season line in Chief Wilson’s single-season triples record 1912 season with the Pirates: 11 HR, 19 2B, and 36 3B.
Line drive pier in old Forbes Field, with speed like Willie Wilson!!
Lance Johnson (117 triples, 34 HRs) was the first guy I thought of
Another Day With To Much Time On My Hands Too!
Curtis Granderson hit a lifetime total of 95 triples in 8,306 PA’s and 30 of those were in Comerica Park in 1,529 PA’s.
At Comerica=30/1,529=1.9%
All Other Parks=65/6,777=0.95%
Comerica Park is a Triples Park for sure.
While a Tiger Granderson led the league in Triples twice, he hit 23 in 2007 (also hit 23 Home Runs that year) and 13 in 2008.
Grandersons replacement was Austin Jackson and he led the league in Triples twice, 2011 with 11 & 2012 with 10.
A Detroit Tiger led the league in Triples in 2007, 2008, 2011 & 2012.
Not the Tigers Team, I meant Granderson & Jackson
Of more recent vintage…
Willie Wilson: 147 triples 41 homers
Ozzie Guillen. 28 HR 69 triples.
Most players on the mid ’80’s Cardinals…
Ozzie Smith, Vince Coleman, Tommy Herr, Willie McGee, Curt Ford, Jose Oquendo, Ivan DeJesus, Bill Lyons, Mike Ramsey, Jose Uribe.
It wouldn’t be the worst idea in the world to push every stadium fence back, wherever possible, and bring back the triple. It would bring some excitement not just on the play but the possible OF play to rob a hitter.
The triple is such an awesome thing to witness in real life. Like your idea. Won’t happen, but would be cool to see.
today’s player would just cruise into 2nd and look cool not getting dirty.
So he’s upset teams have finally realized they were over paying players south of there prime too much money so he walked away? He was a good player no doubt n should have enough money saved up for his family to be set for life but I’m sorry you are not worth more then a couple mill max. I get veterans minimum salary is a low ball, but teams arnt over paying like they used to and that’s just the nature of the beast. Good luck with your endeavors in the future you did very well in the MLB.
This guy was overrated and overpaid even in his prime and this led to an overinflated sense of his own worth. He is a slap hitter with an empty career .281 AVG, .745 OPS, and career slugging percentage below .400. He’s lucky to enjoy such a long career because he was nothing special. Once he’s no longer playable in CF, he is a league minimum player at best because no team wants a slap-hitting corner outfielder getting everyday at-bats. In the current juiced ball era, everyone and their grandma have OPS over .800, even a lot of guys who play premium defensive positions.
The problem with WAR is that it is socialism as it rewards barely above replacement level compilers like Span and underrates their potential replacement. Teams have finally smarten up. The best way to allocation resources is always “stars and scrubs”. I would rather pay Mike Trout 50 million a year than waste money on a bunch of Denard Spans, boring mid-rotation starting pitchers, and one-year wonder setup men because those guys are a. too volatile (can’t count on them to perform every season, even at replacement level) and b. super easy to replace from diamonds in the rough, quad-a journeymen, and reclamation projects for dirt cheap.
What are you wearing, “Jake from State Fromm”?????
Khakis and a red polo shirt?
Yet Jon Jay is still getting signed by teams and he’s HALF the player Denard Span is. Now you know why Span might be a little ticked off.
Well the only reason the White Sox gave Jay 4 million last offseason was because he’s friends with Manny Machado. They wanted to use him to recruit Machado. it didn’t work. Jay signed a minor league deal with Arizona this offseason to continue his career. Span would still be active if he had swallowed his pride.
And what a stupid reason to sign a player.
No one said it was a good idea. Just that it was one of, if not the only reason the White Sox gave him more than league minimum or a minor league deal.
Per FanGraphs, “WAR should be used as a guide for separating groups of players and not as a precise estimate“
Link: library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/
WAR overvalues mediocrity, undervalues potential replacements, rewards organizational complacency, and often use as justification to overpay for middle class veteran compilers on the free agent market. It’s why this website and sites like Fangraphs are almost always way off the mark when projecting free agent salaries for mediocre veterans like Span and Neil Walker.
How much is something “worth”? whatever someone else is willing to pay.
What is left out of the conversation about Span is how many of the other contracts he’d like to compare himself to would teams rather undo? How many guys putting equal numbers really just equate to regression?
Best of luck in retirement Denard. Age catches p with us all, but at least you can enjoy what you’ve been abLe to make for yourself.
Judging others without a clue about their personal circumstances and values says it all, JakeFromHate. Suck on it, loser.
Mr. Span never said what he thinks he’s worth, only what he thinks he’s not worth, both high and low.
Teams finally figuried out it’s a pretty bad investment to offer $5-$10M deals to 36-year-old outfielders whose value came in baserunning and defense. No offense Denard.
While I can respect his sticking to his principles, I doubt that any player is really worth their top salary, whatever that may be. And they probably are worth more than their minimum salaries, early and late in their careers. It ought to be understood that those even out, no?
Nah the elite players are underpaid. The middle class (the tier Span was in) used to be overpaid. Teams have finally wised up.
I would cut off my left ball with a spoon to get a chance to make MLB minimum salary.
Yep.. I’m completely done with MLB and the rest of the major pro sports.. I’m done with being in a bad relationship
You have basically the same chance as any one else. Better chance if you are American. You didn’t make the cut.
But… you can keep your left ball, my friend.
I’m not talking about playing baseball.
I would give up that body part to have a job for that money. Most people would.
Intercourse the players. Intercourse the owners. Intercourse MLB.
Wow, Eric.
I never once said “I need to go to this game live to see Denard Span”, but he was a pretty good player and a pro, which is more than the majority of us can say.
NO
you go to the game to see the TEAM.
Narcissistic injuries are difficult to digest. It always gives me a laugh when some of these people fail to recognize they make top 1% or better living than the rest of the world and wallow in how unfair things are.
Yeah I loled on Gennet’s comments on what he said about being away from family for 220 days. I did 271 straight days in Afghanistan and in the first years of the war units did 15 month deployments with a month leave in the middle. Its tough getting that league minimum though….
And… unlike Gennet.. You were putting your life at risk.. for a salary that Gennet wouldn’t leave his bed to collect.
Thank you for your service to our country!
why is it so absurd for a guy with a multi-million dollar net worth to decide that playing for a top 1% salery isnt worth it for him? by this same logic is Mike Trout supposed to settle for the veteran minimum if he has to because its in the top 50% of all earnings in the country?
Because he has no perspective. Because it’s a choice he’s made to sacrifice family time vs. getting paid in the top 1%. Few are afforded such a choice and no one should feel bad for him and so far if Mike Trout has complaints he has been smart enough not to take his complaints public. If you cannot understand how not complaining about your top 1% salary is not appropriate now there is no hope for you. And stop with your man crush with Trout.
No one said absurd or said Span deserved the minimum or had any thoughts about Trout. All of that was pulled out of thin air. What was said was “failed to recognize” and “wallowin how unfair things are”. I dont believe in the other 99% talk or the livable wage arguement, but 99.9% of people will never have a chance to do what Span has done or make what he has. Many people suffer indignaties everyday and carry on, so yes it sounds bad to read about disrespect over this kind of matter.
It probably boils down that a 1M deal, when you’ve got 58M in the bank, (and Span never struck me as the type that squandered his sheckles), isn’t worth it. Hey, it looks glorious and all that, but travel, smelly locker rooms, and smellier teamates ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.
I really thought Spanie would want to coach; he’s extreemly gregarious, thoughtful about the game, and was pretty well acknowledged as a likeable guy. But again, if a 1M player salary isn’t worth the greif (again, given his earnings), the paltry pay for coaches can’t be worth it either.
You clearly never been in a MLB clubhouse.
Gee wish I could fly first class, I have been furloughed. never have to pay for a meal, have my every whim met, rest at first class hotels , for a measly million and a half a year.
“Walk away?” Uh gee thx for sharing.
Span had a very good career, might still be playing if he decided to go to Japan.
Will always remember him for his 3 triple game
I don’t think he got an offer for the league minimum. I think he got an invitation to spring training with a chance to make the league minimum.
If he’s so sad he should play. The league minimum is still $560k, which is a very nice number. I know he was making millions, but he’s another one of those slap-hitting CFs over 30 that, once they lose their legs, are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head, he’s like Corey Patterson, Dexter Fowler, Juan Pierre, Carl Crawford, etc.
Some of you talk about how the league minimum isn’t worth it. I don’t get how players can walk away from the game when there is a chance to make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Once you’re gone you’re gone and there is no way they will make that back playing a sport, feeling that vibe standing in the field full of fans, signing a baseball to a kid who is looking at you like you’re a king.
Man, I’d love to live just one day sitting on a bench in a dugout watching all that while making $3500 a game.
A great player who I will always remember for hitting his mother with a foul ball on Mother’s Day and sending her to the hospital
While Mr. Span may not have meant it in a negative light, I view the teams that gave no offers as more of an insult than the one who did at league minimum.
I know that he is looking at the market as a fair starting point, but scoffing at making over half a million $$$ is a wealth I hope I can afford one day. Maybe it’s a sign that he isn’t in it for baseball nowadays.
All in all, if Span decides to hang it up, I wish he and his family the absolute best. Always a class act, and that means something coming from a south sider.
Do you have a skill that translates to that type salary? Last I checked they were only 750 people in the world that are professional baseball players
I think most of us as fans say we would play for the league minimum just to fulfill a dream of ours. However, Span did have a good career and made a lot of cash in his MLB career. Year’s down the line he will reflect on it and be thankful and count his blessings.
I think he already is thankful. Watching him in DC he was always one of the more humble players. I think right now he is just the latest player who feels a bit disrespected and is taking it personally.
But at the same time he is also looking forward to time with his young kids and wife. I think Span could still play one of two ways
> An OF desperate team signs him to a reasonable (roughly 3-5MM) a year contract
or
as a player coach.
I really think he will return in a coaching role at some point in the near future
So the real question. Will we play ball this season?
not unless someone blinks
Im just waiting for the first player to give back some money when they under perform their contract quoting “I dont want to disrespect the team”
And, I’m waiting for the first team to pay their pre-arbitration superstar what he’d get on the open market. That’s not going to happen either. Just as Ronald Acuna.
Yea Id have no problem with doing away with so many arb years….you know who would though? Mlb vets, the same ones who dont want to give a penny to minor leagues….. the same ones who just want all the money themselves inevitably taking money from the arb players via extension etc
Acuna signed on the line, dont blame ATl there
That will happen when owners give bonuses for over performing
Gil Meche did. He was out for season in the last year of his contract and retired. He gave up 12 million.
If you want to make that much annually move to the entertainment industry where careers are much shorter so pay per year is higher. Baseball and all sports are part of that industry. . Average that 58 MM of spans career over 45 years (20-65) and all of sudden those salaries look a lot more reasonable for a player at the top of their industry as any MLB player should be considered
Next
consider actors, directors writers musicians and other entertainers that must constantly renegotiate their pay with every job they take. Only the very top tier make the big bucks. and those only when they are in fashion.
So don’t gripe when someone makes a large chunk in a short time because your steady monthly doesn’t look like their paycheck
I think anytime something like this happens we need to ask, was Denard Span one of the greatest underrated outfielders of all time?
Here’s my top 5:
5. Stan the Man Javier
4. Coco Crisp
3. Sammy Soda
2. Rusty Greer
1. Denard Span
Devon white
Jim Edmonds
JD Drew
4th OF just aren’t worth a ton to MLB team right now – especially ones that cannot play CF. You have teams like the Mets throwing Dom Smith and JD Davis in the OF and offer position versatility for low money. Plenty of other teams doing the same recently.
Earl Weaver did that 40 years ago. Hiding butchers in 1B and corner outfield is nothing new.
I like how Span said “How did I get to this point where now I have to prove that I can play when I just had 500 at-bats last year?”
Getting into the box 500 times a year doesn’t seem like a good reason to give a player $10 million the next season. Did his agent tell him that this was his best skill?
No one has ever said “The player with the most plate appearances deserves the most money”.
Denard Span’s principles will always fall behind the principles of an entire baseball organization.
Most importantly, Denard Span walked away and I didn’t even notice.
His point was tat if the manager(s) felt he was worth being on the field that consistently, and he has the body of work he has amassed how does the drop off go so deep so fast..
you have to view it in the context of the labor environment the player work within.. Yes players make lots of money at once. but they also have a career length about one quarter of an average citizen.. Bring this to the same scale as most of us work within and you could see a person who had worked his whole life to provide for his family and move up within a company going form 100.000.00/YR TO 40,000/yr while doing close to the same work
I’m sorry, but it is impossible for me to feel bad for a guy who walked away from a game he played for a living ON HIS OWN TERMS.
Most guys who play the game will never walk away on their own terms. That decision is usually made for them.
And you can’t equate playing Major League Baseball to a regular job. Baseball, like all sports are a form of entertainment, and that’s not a job. You can do it for a living, but it’s not a job.
You can’t compare it to regular jobs, like accountants, barbers, or sanitation workers. It’s just too different.
You need to make your scale correct for having earned 58 million by age 36. Makes it easy to walk out the door talking about respect when you can live an easy life and never have to work again.
Just because his manager played him consistently didn’t make him good. A lot of bad teams give washed up veterans undeserved playing time because they’re too cheap to start the service clock of their prospects and want to sell fans false hope by pretending to be semi-competitive early. Their real goal is to try to squeeze some values out of these washed up vets and flip them to contenders for more prospects at the trade deadline. Then these washed up vets would end up spending the rest of their season and postseason wasting away on contenders’ bench. Some don’t even make the playoffs roster. Happens every year.
2018. Span 112 OPS+. Hasn’t played since. 2018. Jon Jay 83 OPS+. Signs $4M deal with Chisox for 2019. Age is 1 year difference. Once again, Span isn’t going to call out his fellow players, but this is just one example of what he is referencing. Please tell me what Jay brings to the table that Span doesn’t do BETTER?
Better agent, signed first contract he saw. Span wont tell you what contracts he turned down early in free agency because he wanted big money or a starting roll. He will only tell you of the “disrespectful” contracts he refused.
I agree.
I don’t understand the need to complain about disrespect when someone chooses to leave on their own principles. It’s not like he swallowed his pride or anything.
Maybe Span’s agent told him to make public complaints to keep his name relevant.
If you want to make that much annually move to the entertainment industry where careers are much shorter so pay per year is higher. Baseball and all sports are part of that industry. . Average that 58 MM of spans career over 45 years (20-65) and all of sudden those salaries look a lot more reasonable for a player at the top of their industry as any MLB player should be considered
Next
consider actors, directors writers musicians and other entertainers that must constantly renegotiate their pay with every job they take. Only the very top tier make the big bucks. and those only when they are in fashion.
So don’t gripe when someone makes a large chunk in a short time because your steady monthly doesn’t look like their paycheck
You need to learn how to read. The people in this thread you replied to arent “griping” about how he makes more. I understand the game of market dynamics and how it works. The comments point to Span needing to realize that his time is up and he doesnt deserve anything because to his AB’s or whatever.
If his goal is to make a comeback, announcing his official retirement while making a public complaint won’t help his cause. If he’s trying to launch a coaching career, this won’t help either.
‘Denard in Denial’ should be the headline.
Well, Bye!!!
‘chicks dig long balls.’ applies to kids and newbies, too. there are more to baseball than just hitting home runs. hitting singles or doubles or walking to get on bases and stealing a base or two or even three and scoring on singles is a form of a baseball art in itself.
sabermetricks made baseball better but the game is still played by players. if it were so great every team should win the world series!
@Viz
yea chicks & other fans dig the long ball but owners and GMs dig balanced line ups. Those are the folks that negotiate the contracts. More than one of those Washington contracts raised an eyebrow or two last year. Even the Kendrick 7MM contract last year was significantly higher than several of the other offers he received elsewhere.
This leads me to believe this is more about owners trying to hold down overall salaries knowing they can’t do anything about the top where you either pay the money or go without and the bottom where most are at or near the league minimum. Only the middle salaries are vulnerable. This is the downside of the players desire to drive salaries with a what the market will bear approach.
It is a veteran player I would not mind over paying for it is Howie Kendrick
Apparently AutoCorrect is working overtime, sorry for the butcher job on the post
Many on here should #WalkAway too
In the end, if we’re honest, this is about “feeling disrespected.” It has nothing to do with his family because, if it did, he would have just walked away regardless of the dollar amount of his offers – he has, or at least should have, plenty of money. And so in the end, he may be right that he is worth more than league minimum objectively- so what!!! You turned down at minimum $600k, plus benefits, plus all of your daily expenses being covered, to play a game. And you could have continued to make that much for another 4 or 5 years. Talk about failing to see the forest thru the trees.
Denard,
BOTH leagues will be instituting a DH this season.
And you’re still not getting phone calls.
Read the writing on the wall.
Enjoy your retirement, and your prodigious net worth. You have deserved it.
.If you feel like it, 6x a year you can hit the autograph collectors circuit and make a nice tidy sum.
League-wide DH does nothing to help the employment prospect of hitters like Span, whose value came from defense and baserunning. He has a career slugging percentage below .400 for crying out loud. As soon as he was no longer a viable CF, he was a 4th OF at best.
League wide DH could help. It could take a power hitting, bad defending OF and put him at DH. Then that leaves a spot open for another OF who can run, hit, and play a little D. Not saying Span is that guy. This league is built for young, power hitting players. 33 is the age of old now in baseball. 36 is go home, unless your bat is so good like Nelson Cruz.
It would’ve helped Span if he were still capable of playing CF. He’s not. Nobody wants a corner outfielder with career slugging percentage below .400, especially in the current juiced balls era.
Then Jon Jay must have photos on all 30 GMs.
Player: [retires]
the MLBTR comment section: so this is why i never thought [retiring player] was any good and should have retired years ago
Waaaah! They only want to give me 20x what the average person makes for working half a year!
If you were a skilled surgeon, when you reach a certain age and your skills diminish, would you mind being paid the same as an orderly? Of course you would. And for all of you on here who whine that “Hey, it’s $580K. He should stop whining and take it,” do you know that respect and compensation are a package deal? Once you earn one, you earn the other.
I like and remember Span as a player, but this isn’t “standing by one’s principles” (unless your principles are for sale). This is a worn-out diva’s exit, .
i hope your kids treat you the same way!
That “worn-out diva” has already accomplished more in life than you ever will. He was among the best in the world at what he did.
If you put net worth at the top of any accomplishment list, sure. What other metric would you use to make that assertion?
Not everyone has the same priorities, believe it or not some people willingly earn less money to have a better quality of life and are happier for it.
Who said net worth is the TOP priority of any accomplishment ?
Not a good time to be telling people how insulted you are by a million dollars.
It’s totally cool to say that it isn’t worth it and even get mad but to get indignant about the insult of a million dollars to play baseball is so bad it embarrasses me.
You don’t have to love the game but you should pretend you don’t hate it.
If you have put in the work to excel in an industry that pays people that level of compensation, of course you can be insulted. Stop looking at the money amount! It’s called compensation. If McDonalds was selling million dollar Happy Meals, you and your co-workers there would rightly demand more than minimum wage. The price of your labor should be commensurate with the market for your product or service you provide.
Great post. Yes, Denard is indeed getting an offer based on his current value within the market. Agreed.
He was offered what he is worth. Guys who have made a fortune by virtue of having been “legs” players (playing CF, stealing slapping out hits) lose value steeply when they they hit their late 30’s. Most people should realize this.
Ichiro is on line 3… he’d like a word
Why do people overlook defense? Ichiro had a gun for an arm. Runners were gunned down or slowed down by him in RF.
Denard is 36. Which is AARP level in MLB. He conveniently forgets that when he was younger, he and other younger players were stealing roster spots from aging vets. He had no qualms about it then.
Every dog has his day, etc and so on.
Like most players he probably has an investment advisor, and his net worth will exceed $100 million by the time he hits 60. Sigh. Somehow he will have to manage and get by.
MLB’ers deserve every cent they get. They’re in an industry with a short shelf life. They know it.
So instead of complaining about “respect”, look in the mirror.
What players are stealing a job from Denard Span? Feel free to list which players should be cut for a 36 yo guy ?
You’re not the beauty queen you once were. You’ve gotten fat and missing a couple of teeth. The boys arent calling you anymore. How insulting.
That argument would be truer if they weren’t making millions a year. The average salary is $4M. The median salary is $1.5M, so half the guys are making more than that. Meanwhile, the median annual wage is just under $40K. Basically, that means the average baseball player is making nearly 40 times the average other person in this country, which is nearly their entire lifetime earnings. Argue that their services bring in more money or that they have to be more elite to be at that level, but the short shelf life argument is weak when they can easily make more in a year than tens of millions of people see in their lives.
MLB players make alot of money? No way! Shocking.
The league needs to stop giving the top pick to the worst team. Too many teams are tanking and they have guys in the outfield like Harold Castro and Jace Peterson. As a fan, I would much rather see someone like Span in the outfield. Make it so teams are trying to put a competitive team out there.
All teams that miss the playoffs get 2 first round picks. They go in order from best record to worst.
If you make the playoffs, best record gets the first second round pick and in order after that from best record to worst.
No compensation picks. No supplemental picks.
You may say bad teams will have a hard time improving… they have a hard time improving now.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but how do you know Span didn’t receive league minimum offers or spring training invites from those tanking teams? It takes two to tango. A lot of veterans, especially those who are smart with their money, would rather retire than make league minimum for doormat teams. The smart play for tanking teams would be to sign Span for minimum, squeeze some production from him, and then flip him for more prospects at the trade deadline, but Span likely wasn’t interested. Like I said, it takes two to tango. The tanking teams probably aren’t trotting out Jace Peterson and Harold Castro by choice.
Tanking teams would be better to develop younger players as opposed to sacrificing a roster spot for a 36 yo has-been. And even if Span hits well, no one at the trading deadline is going to offer anything decent for a guy who’s like a BMW with 300,000 miles on it.
That’s not how it works. Most tanking teams are too cheap to start young players’ major league service time clock until deep into the season (after super 2 deadline usually), so they end up trotting out below replacement level quad-a scrubs like Jace Peterson and Harold Castro everyday and an unacceptable on-field product that alienates fans. If Span hits well for a couple of months, there would be an opportunity to trade him for a raw low-end prospect who most likely wouldn’t amount to anything (or make the major league at all), but still a better way to build a team than wasting playing time on quad-a scrubs. Plenty of “player to be named later” in past trades have become good players, so it’s not impossible to acquire an useful prospect for some boring vet like Span.
A useful prospect for Span. Fat chance.
I’d be more likely to agree with a penalty for a never-ending tanking cycle. The White Sox, even though they’re my team, haven’t been above .500 since 2012. At one point, the Pirates had 20+ straight losing seasons. At that point, it’s not a strategy, it’s either incompetence or not caring at all about the product on the field. Maybe something like a points system: Win fewer than 50, that’s 5 points., fewer than 55 is 4 points, and so on. Get 10 points over any 3 consecutive years and lose your first-round draft pick. Get 10 points over any 4 consecutive years and lose your second-round draft pick, in addition to the first-rounder if applicable. If a team keeps losing draft picks for three consecutive years, take a chunk out of their revenue sharing income. It incentivizes teams to make real efforts to avoid the draft pick loss, which can lead to a loss of revenue sharing.
I will recall Span as a guy you could get in the 12th round of a draft if you were desperate for steals and didn’t want to tank the category.
Precisely!
He was good in leagues that penalizes strikeouts because he had great control of the strike zone. He was very promising his first 2 seasons, but regressed his 3rd year, never recovered his early career form, and never developed power.
I watched Span play in Seattle in 2018. He really impressed me, and I was shocked that no team wanted his quality ABs for 2019. Didn’t seem right, but this explains it. One of Dipoto’s better moves.
He was basically another Angel Pagan who left the MLB 2 years before Span under similar circumstances.
I too would say he without a doubt overrachieved salary wise already….take your money and enjoy the family. I hope one day someone will overpay me by 9 million because i’m a “nice team player”
So can you give an example of a similar style of player who was paid fairly at that salary?
What do you believe Denard’s salary should have been?
Denard was underrated because he made playing CF look so easy. Not a lot of diving and leaping because he ran such great routes to the ball. Best of luck Denard. Loved watching you play.
Before Span, The Nats had chronic CF and leadoff issues for years. Acquiring Span was a nice coup. Nats got him in exchange for prospect Alex Meyer. A steal — Meyer ended up consistently injured and never got to the Bigs. Well done on Rizzo.
I was going to post my well wishes for Denard yesterday but got side tracked by all the comments about Denard quitting on principle…
One last thing on that If you were looking for a job in an industry you worked for 10 years and all employers offered you was an entry level salary or an internship what would your emotional reaction be.
That is the principle
Such emotional devastation, yes. And I wish someone like you were around when I was selling my BMW that had 300,000 miles on it. I wouldve insisted the buyer pay the price based on 50,000 miles. Or my feelings would be hurt.
Getting paid for experience and production of physical labor is a little different than a a consumer product based on age and use. But as far as you BMW goes…
What was the market value and who was it’s agent?
Good to read ya Natsman
Baseball players are extended offers based on the market forces that are dictated at that time. That is common sense.
Explain when in the earlier years of his career did Denard cry when he and others took roster spots away from aging vets?
And what players in MLB right now are stealing a job away from this 36 year old ballplayer?
Cue Sebastian Maniscalco and his skit on “Feelings”.
Denard didn’t “cry” but did often wish those players well.
He is not crying now contrary to what is being posted here. He did what anyone in the entertainment industry would do. He evaluated what it was worth to him to go through all of the things we don’t think about that go into being a pro athlete and decided he would not make enough to be worth it.
In a lot of ways he is stepping away gracefully.
Not really sure why you come on here and lecture people to defend this guy, suggesting that no one has been what’s he’s through. How do you know what people on this board have been through? Everyone on this board has been rejected in life. And believe it or not, some people on this board have been rejected FAR WORSE than Span has.
Secondly, you have a serious case of “failure to read the room”. You are talking down to a bunch of people on this board who undoubtedly have been laid off, furloughed, paycuts, you name it. Layoffs are growing. And you’re crying about a guy who’s made a killing in his career and just turned down a $587,000 job offer, and his feelings are hurt –?!?!
Frankly, I think you’re from the sports and entertainment business and you’re just trying to make a point. And you’re not.
I am sorry you feel like I am talking down to the room as you put it. It just sticks in my craw that the first thing the poster (in the majority want to talk about is the money.
I have fed into it with my post I know. But go back and count how many posts just talk about the mans body of work without calling him overrated.
it’s pretty striking how much downright bitterness was posted and in my mumbled opinion it is not warranted.
.
Well put. I couldn’t give a rat’s patooey about what he or any player has been through financially, or frankly, personally. Not my concern. And when they publicly whine about only being offered a mere $587,000 while many of us haven’t seen a paycheck in months, yeah, it’s distasteful at best, and frankly, disgusting.
Adc6r,
When you say comments were made here that were “not warranted”, you instead oughtta be looking in the mirror. You fanned the flames, tastelessly.
Denard I and all Nationals fans wish you the best in retirement. Enjoy your kids because those opportunities are finite and precious. When you are ready come back to us in the Baseball world as a coach. I believe you still have a lot in the tank there.
Span is the posterchild for what’s wrong with MLB. He is simply delusional, myopic, self-absorbed, and obsessed with being paid what HE thinks he’s worth. What YOU think, Denard, means zip. Why the hell would an owner pay an incredibly mediocre, gray-bearded, way past prime player more than the league minimum while you take away a precious roster spot from some young deserving player? You truly added nothing to any team you’ve been on. I suffered through your time with the Giants. How many times can a fan be expected to endure “popped up, and the side’s retired”?
One more thing: Has anyone ever seen Denard Span and Dexter Fowler in the same place at the same time? I didn’t think so.
See I don’t get all the hate. He has never been a me first player and most players site him as a clubhouse asset. He always gave good effort on the field. He was a good technical outfielder who made the most of his range and speed by taking good routes to the ball. he made good contact at the plate and was a tough out most of his career. forget metrics for second….
Isn’t that the kind of guy you want on your team?
Sure there’s value in those things, but I think most of the “hate” (I don’t waste hate on men playing a boy’s game) is because of his “don’t you know what I think I’m worth” attitude, which, unfortunately is all too common among athletes, and alienates fans who pay his damn salary! He is incapable of going one minute without bringing up money. How sad is that? He’s not worthy of taking up a roster spot, especially for the past five years or so, and he certainly isn’t worthy of any $ above league minimum.
It blows me away that league minimum money is talked about like it’s pennies. Half a million dollars to play a game vs. whatever the pay broadcasting or what normal people make.