2020 salary terms are set to be hammered out in the coming days. But what about what’s owed to players beyond that point? The near-term economic picture remains questionable at best. That’ll make teams all the more cautious with guaranteed future salaries.
Every organization has some amount of future cash committed to players, all of it done before the coronavirus pandemic swept the globe. There are several different ways to look at salaries; for instance, for purposes of calculating the luxury tax, the average annual value is the touchstone, with up-front bonuses spread over the life of the deal. For this exercise, we’ll focus on actual cash outlays that still have yet to be paid.
We’ll run through every team, with a big assist from the Cot’s Baseball Contracts database. Next up is the Indians:
(click to expand/view detail list)
Indians Total Future Cash Obligation: $40.65MM
*includes buyout of club options
This is interesting. I wonder if this means they will make a serious attempt to re-sign Lindor
They really have no excuse not to sign him. 8 years, 250 million ought to do it.
No it won’t
I mean Yelich just signed a 7/188M extension. I know he would’ve received way more on the open market but 8/250M would at least peak Lindor’s interest and get him to the table you’d think. I personally think he gets around 9/300M however.
8 years and $250 million is a fine offer. To say that it wouldn’t be close is wrong. It might not get a deal done, but if the Indians theoretically offered that right now, it should be close.
He’s still a year (plus whatever goes on this year) from free agency; assuming he gets around $25 million in arbitration for next season, that would be 7 more years at a little under $32 million a year.
Signing Lindor to any of those deals will be like ARod in Texas and Stanton in Miami – you can sign him but have no money to put a lineup around him that would allow you to contend. So why sign a deal you can’t see play out and then take on a huge part of the salary just to watch him play elsewhere? Love Lindor and what he brings, but get something for him while you can, instead of paying his salary while he plays for the Yankees or Dodgers or whoever.
The Indians have every reason in the world NOT to sign him. First off, no, 8 years, $250M won’t do it, it will take $300M easy. And that’s if they sign him now, in the middle of a crisis with no end in sight. It’ll go up from there, if they wait until the off season.
For the Indians, a $300M contract going south would be an unmitigated disaster. They would be buried for the full 10 years of it. Small market teams have no business handing out $300M contracts.
Big market teams can afford a dead contract that size. The Yankees can even afford two, and it’ll barely affect the product on the field.
On the other hand, if the Indians spend $300M, and it ends up dead money, they’re struggling to field a competitive team for the duration of the contract.
That said, they also shouldn’t trade him. In general, good teams should stay in win-now mode until they start losing. And the Indians haven’t started losing yet. They won 93 games last year, and they’ll be in it this year too…if they keep their team as it is.
Stansfield I think you make a lot of great points if he won’t take a team friendly deal fine but also press this window as much as they can
They also just won 93 games, so they’re not exactly falling off a cliff right now.
If anyone thinks Lindor will sign for a penny less than Anthony Rendon’s 35million AAV you’re dreaming.
He’s both younger,better and plays a more demanding defensive position.
For the Indians to sign him the deal would more than likely be for 10 years as well.
I have a question about Carrasco. He’s sitting at 8 years, 147 days service time. He’ll be at 9.147 after this season. At ten he would get 10 and 5 no trade rights. So if he crosses that threshold early next season, does he get those rights immediately or does he not get them until after the season?
Those 10 and 5 rights happen immediately once achieved.
He’s not getting traded; he’ll retire an Indian.
its called “Indians are cheap”
It’s called “Indians spend wise.”
as they slowly slide from nearly winning the World Series to not making the playoffs.
@darkside Please name a team in the history of baseball, that did not slowly slide from winning, or nearly winning, the WS, to not making the playoffs.
While we’re at it, please name a person or organization in the history of the world, that didn’t slowly slide from winning to not. That’s just how things work.
And then they’ll rebuild, and, as long as they keep being smart, end up on top again. Or they could start acting stupid and spend beyond their means, and cause damage that lasts decades instead of just one rebuild cycle.
Those are the two options in life: 1. take your losses gracefully and build back up (or, when the time comes, die and leave the best legacy you possibly could), or 2. panic and self destruct, because you naively thought the Universe was a place where you can just keep winning forever and ever.
The 2016 Indians team they fielded in the playoffs was not a great team. They got hot at the right time. The team they have now is a much stronger team. If your questioning, go back and look at the roster.
Not spending at all is not “spending wise”
Mediocrity will do that to ya
They’ve won 380 games over the last 4 years. Not sure how 95 wins per season is mediocre.
@brewcrew08
It’s not mediocre by any means. But winning 95 games a year only means so much if you never win a World Series!
As far as mid-market teams go, the Indians have had superb on-field performance. The Rays and Cardinals are the only mid-matket teams to have more wins in the 2010s.
Yeah? Hang that banner.
Yep. Can tell you’re mediocre by your comment.
Sounds like the Braves smh….’plenty of payroll flexibility’ that won’t be spent
Welcome to the life of a life long Pirates fan.
how much did they spend this offseason again?
Seriously? You’re complaining about your team(Braves) . You guys have one the most talented young cores in the MLB and you’re complaining. Spending money doesn’t always mean wins, look at some of these free agent deals handed out by LAA, LAD, NYY, BOS, DET. I’m talking deals fans were excited about that seriously hamstring some of these organizations (Pujols, Hamilton, Ellsbury, Miggy, Price etc.). You should be glad you guys have payroll flexibility and talent out the a**. Unless you’re a Orioles or Pirates fan, you shouldnt be complaining, I would throw the Marlins and Royals with them but at least they have some rings in the modern era. Didn’t you guys just spend like 100+mm on your bullpen this offseason?
Lindor, Bryant, Betts, Seager, Bauer, Story lots of talent is going to be available in these next two offseason’s. I think the Braves are being patient and want to see if these some young pitchers can start in the majors consistently, once they know what they have they will Invest in either the rotation or position front, a young vet like Lindor or Betts would fit in so nicely with that core. Or they could look for a Nats/Cubs type investment (Scherzer, Lester).
The NYY are the winningest team in the history of baseball. Even more so in the past 25 years. So try not to use them as an example for a formula that doesn’t win, thanks. Frankly, off that list, the only good examples are the Angels and Detroit. The other teams have been winning games and/or titles like crazy.
How many rings did Ellsbury help the Yankees win?
Uhhh, no team has won more titles in the last 20 years then the Red Sox. Just an FYI
Thanks tips, that 240mm dollar payroll really tore the league up last year. The Redsox won in 2018 with a talented young core and by using even more talent to acquire Sale and Kimbrel. Not to mention by cheating as well. David Price was a big part of the payroll not a big part of the team.
They’d be better off capitalizing on his value now. They’ve already dealt a couple pitchers. Why not advance a rebuild with a prospect rich trade of Lindor
Because they still have a ton of good pitching and lindor/ramirez and play mostly bad teams in their division
Exactly, no guarantee the Twins repeat their 2019 success and the South Siders haven’t proved anything and they get to play Royals and Tigers 18+ times a year. Their window is still open, the deadline will (would have) been the time to decide on a rebuild. I still don’t understand the Kluber deal, why not see if he can bounce back and either deal him at the deadline or let him lead you to the playoffs.
They dealt a couple of pitchers who stopped being useful. Wise move, but I doubt Lindor fits that description, as an age 25 shortstop at the top of his game.
They do… but they won’t spend it
Lindor wants Machado money. So, that’s going to mean hes traded. Indians can use the money to fill out a competitive roster instead of spending on 1 player. That’s what cheap, well run teams do though. And the Indians want to be a cheap team.
i think its more likely they extend him than most think. obviously the Indians finances would say no, but rven cheaper teams sometimes will break from tradition and make a big signing if they feel that the guy they are signing is THE guy.
Lindor doesn’t want Machado money. That would mean he’s selling himself way short.
The first question is whether the Indians as presently constructed financially can even remain a viable MLB franchise.
Unlike some of the other franchises, which are backed by billions of dollars, either by a deep pocketed owner or corporation, the Cleveland franchise has to be run on its immediate revenue streams. It does not have the outside resources to deficit spend.
With lowered TV and radio revenue, zero attendance and no income this year from revenue sharing, where does ownership get the money to continue as a legitimate contender, as it has for years?
As it stands, attendance hasnt followed on the field success, and ownership has been forced to cut payroll two years in a row….even while winning a lot of games and reaching the WS once.
Unless the franchise receives a huge influx of cash, which could only come thru a new or expanded ownership, the likelihood is that it will have to slash payroll even more to stay afloat.
This is not a rant against the Dolan family, who I think has been an excellent ownership group. But if you dont have the money to outlast the epidemic, it cant be printed. I dont see how they have those kind of resources.
The Dolans’ resources are irrelevant. Money is cheaper to get than ever. Any MLB franchise, but especially a winning one, can get as much money as they want at close to no interest rate. They won’t, of course (because they’re too smart to go into debt in the middle of a crisis), but they could if it was necessary to keep the team in business.
I agree.
All of baseball will face a financial crunch this season no matter what.
How deep the Dolan’s pockets are is meaningless,Other than Mike Ilitch no owner has gone into his pocket to make payroll in recent years to any great extent, if at all.
Having a ton of space under the cap means very little if you’re unwilling or unable to spend money.
As a quick follow up, I know a lot of good restaurants that have been well run for a long time, and that wont be around much longer…thru no fault of their own.
Small market MLB franchises are not immune to this epidemic.
Everyone talks about the Indians management being cheap. I’m a lifelong Tribe fan and can remember butts being in the seats every home game. I now live in Tennessee but every time I go back home to Northeast Ohio I take my son to see the Indians and the seats are empty. You want to field a better club as a fan? Show support. Stop complaining about multi millionaires not spending money. They are there to make a profit not lose money. If you’re not out there supporting your team by showing up and helping revenue you’ll never have a great spending ballclub. Lindor or not, I’ll be a fan of my Indians for life. Win or lose I’ll support them. But complaining they are cheap and don’t sign big players is kind of hypocritical if you’re not showing up and doing your part
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Hey boombasustic, the Indians’ situation is fascinating to me and I’d love to hear from an Indians fan what is going on over there. They have had a great team for a while now and their stadium is top-ranked, yet and their attendance is mediocre at best. I heard you could even get playoff tickets the day of the game.
I thought I heard Cleveland, as well as other small cities throughout Ohio, are having a serious exodus of people and business. Nobody is living in the city, the economy is in the dumper, and has no prospect to rebound. On another hand I heard downtown has been rejuvenated, the arts scene is growing, and there is a uptick of young professionals.
The Flats are night and day from what it was. They even rejuvenated the center with a park like setting downtown just down the street from the Casino And some really amazing dining areas with rows and rows of options in multiple locations. The problem is if your an East Sider or a West Sider they built brand new outdoor shopping facilities that are really nice and not that far from home. Sports you got Minor league stadiums on both sides of Cleveland to take your kids to. Honestly even by me In Avon they are building tons and tons of new shopping we literally can do everything we need to do 10 mins down the road. Honestly so much fancy outdoor shopping centers around me I really dont know how long building like that will continue to prove sustainable even without the virus. All in all Cleveland is a very nice place even starting to see an uptick of artsy college kids just wandering around. Sorry one hand typing all this as my baby is asleep in my other arm. Not so many years ago I’d recomend some other citys to a friend now adays Ctown has a ton to do. I can only take my kids to the Zoo , great lakes science center, museum’s, or the Lame Aquarium so many times without going nuts so we mostly stay local.
Playoff caliber team that doesn’t draw fans anymore. Tough sledding for ownership. Lindor has stated he won’t sign an extension. The Indians surely won’t win the bidding war for Lindor in free agency when the big revenue clubs get involved. A trade this offseason seems inevitable.
Lindor has never said he won’t sign an extension. At least publicly, he’s said he’d love to stay in Cleveland long term.
He’s just strongly implied that he won’t take a hometown discount. There’s a difference between that and being unwilling to sign an extension at all.
Actions speak louder than words.
Lindor smiles and says all the right things just like his agent has told him to do,but he’s been pointing to free agency since he arrived in Cleveland.
It’s his right to do so and the smart thing to do from his perspective.
Oh I agree, but I think that if the money was right he’d love to stick around. It’s not like he hates the city or anything. The only reason he probably has one foot out the door is just because he probably knows they won’t give him that much money.
He won’t take much less to stay (if any less at all), but it’s probably a moot point since they probably won’t offer him a mega deal anyway.
Man do I miss the 90’s Indian’s. With some of the big names leaving, have been traded, or wondering if they’ll be resigned this reminds me of those years torwards the end. I was in my teens at the time but a ton of amazing sports memories with all the teams here. Whelp also one gosh awful one as well with the “MOVE” . Dang it dont cry man dont cry had to go remember that during this lockdown lol
The Indians, Oakland, and Rays all build similarly in terms of how they spend their money, how they leverage assets, and how they use data to compete. That’s why they haven’t tanked. It’s a fan’s dream to have a competitive team every year, as opposed to Miami. It’s why I am glad the Dbacks hired Mike Hazen to modernize the front office.