The Tigers were unable to get a contract extension done with ace righty Max Scherzer before the 2014 season. What if they had ponied up the cash? Jeff Todd explores that alternate universe in today’s video.
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he’d’ve become a sweetener in a Jordan Zimmermann salery dump
What if he had signed with his hometown team the St Louis Cardinals? It would’ve been awesome. But, I am glad for Sherzer he has done very well with the Washington Nationals and he also won a World Series. Since he debuted with the Diamondback, I knew he was going to be an elite pitcher. He’s one of my favorite pitchers.
The 200+ million dollar deals that actually work out are few and far in between, but Scherzer has certainly been worth the price tag.
Funny because at the time I remember Boras doing one of his better spin jobs with the media to make people think Scherzer was worth that price. Eventually got to the big number with heavy deferrals.
200 million dollars is a good deal for a power pitcher. Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke, Kershaw. Heck, Price was a WS ace and will probably be a solid number two on another WS in LA. 200 million plus hasn’t faired well for hitters though.
You mean number three on a World Series loser I assume
Hey big boy bambino, I assume you mean World Series long man
Maybe they wouldn’t be total dogcrap, then.
What if he stayed a dback?
What if he stayed in AAA?
I’ll bite.
What if our aunts had packages?
What if you did, what if you lied?
The Tigers would have had a prime trade chip but would have been on a bad team. How many of those guys actually go for big time prospect hauls? Not many. Usually the team hangs onto them for too long and gets a smaller return with less upside. Kind of like what the Dbacks got for Greinke
The Dbacks got a HAUL for Greinke. Wow
I admit it is not the fairest comparison but this whole scenario is a what-if so what-if Scherzer stayed with the Tigers? They probably would have traded him by now to jumpstart a rebuild. To compare the offers, Corbin Martin has middle of the rotation potential. Josh Rojas is a replacement level leftfielder. Seth Beer has been a good hitter in the minors and I think he will be a good MLB first baseman. Bukauskas has been average at best in his minor league career. Not exactly a haul in my opinion. 2 potential long-term major league roster players for a front of the rotation horse who is a top 10 pitcher. Also the Dbacks ate a lot of money to get that “haul”.
I think you’re undervaluing the trade value of ‘2 potential long term MLB players’ who havent accumulated much if any MLB service yet
If they’re productive regulars it’s a good trade. Not an “Oh My God they fleeced Houston” trade, but a good trade given they needed to move an expensive contract and deepen their farm.
Not to mention they got a decade and change worth of combined control of those players as hastened the opening of their contention window by offloading a sizable chunk of an albatross contract. The real shame is losing the high upside arm of Brennan Malone to the Pittsburgh organization.
And AA probably would have agreed to pay 1/2 his salary just to move him.
…assuming the trade was post-DD
Yep, bad enough to finish 2nd in 2016. His wins may have been the difference between 2nd and winning the division.
I found out the “what if” article I want to see. What if Chris Sale was traded to the Rangers instead of the Red Sox in 2016? The Rangers were one of the teams in the running then for him.
The Question is not what If Scherzer stayed a Tiger.
The Question is What if Tigers Traded Scherzer in early 2014 after Scherzer turned down his contract extension offer with the Tigers?!
If the Tigers had traded Scherzer in early 2014 in a blockbuster deal netting 4-5 top young prospects and promising young major league players , then the Tigers stockpiling great young players and top prospects may have been a “retool while contending” rather than running the team into the ground until the wheels came off requiring a major teardown and rebuld.
At that time, MLB teams still had gunslinging General Managers who were still trading top 25 and top 50 MLB prospects in bunches for veteran stars,
The MLB Trade market dramatically changed 2-3 years later…GMs and teams became much more analytic and started hoarding top 25. top 50, top 100 prospects..The Tigers got caught on the wrong side of the changing MLB trade market and were loaded down with declining veterans with large, unwise contracts that payed fading stars for past performances.
And, Dave Dombrowski would have received much better talent back in 2014 that what was being offered 3 or 4 years later in a “buyers market”…
Good points, but the Tigers were in a “win now” mode to get a championship for Mr. I.
Yankees, Dodgers and others were “retooling in place” and still contending every year…that could have also been the Tigers.
Dave Dombrowski would have been fired sooner by Mr. I.
If they did trade him in 2014, you would have to look at the possibility of which teams would have acquired him. Let’s just assume that no team that finished the 2014 season under .500 would have attempted to get him.
In the AL that leaves – Orioles, Yankees, Jays, Royals, Indians, Angels, A’s, Mariners
In the NL that leaves – Nats, Cards, Pirates, Brewers, Dodgers, Giants
I’m going to eliminate the Royals and Indians because the Tigers likely would not have traded him to a team they were battling for the division title. I am tempted to eliminate the Nats, Orioles, and Angels as well because they all won their divisions by more than 10 games, but I’ll them since we are assuming an early season trade.
I think it is also safe to assume that a top 50 prospect overall would have had to be the headliner of the package, so that eliminates the Brewers and Angels since they did not have one at the time. I’m using the 2014 MLB.com preseason prospect list for reference, since that would have been the most current.
What is left is Orioles, Dodgers, Yankees, A’s, Pirates, Mariners, Giants, Cards, Jays, Nats. That could have led to some interesting packages led by the likes of Corey Seager, Gary Sanchez, or Lucas Giolito, Or course it could have also led to some packages led by Kyle Crick or Kevin Gausman. All of them were top 50 prospects, but not top 25.
But let’s assume you are holding out for a package led by a top 25 prospect. There would have been 6 teams left with a chance.
Orioles – Dylan Bundy
A;s – Addison Russell
Pirates – Gregory Polanco & Jameson Taillon
Mariners – Taijuan Walker
Blue Jays – Aaron Sanchez
Cardinals – Oscar Taveras
If the Tigers were going to continue to try and in in the AL, which I think is a safe assumption, I would assume the Tigers would likely have shipped him to the NL. The Pirates had 4 top 50 guys with Polanco and Taillon joined by Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows. But the Cards had Taveras who was #3 overall and they had the fact that Scherzer was from St. Louis. It would have been an interesting battle, but I think the Cards would have won had they included Taveras along with a couple of their pitching prospects.
Obviously, the way things turned out with Taveras as tragic, but none of those top 25 players I mentioned exactly set the world on fire. They turned into decent players in most cases, but I don’t think any of them would have made the Tigers any better.
The Tigers would have insisted on top young major league talent that had already been promoted to the major league team plus top prospects…
Looking at the 2013 Standings, The Dodgers and Yankees would certainly have been in the mix.
The Red Sox, Braves, Cardinals, Nationals, Mets, Orioles and many more would have been in the mix
Seager..Urias, Pederson, Verdugo are possible headliners of a Dodgers package with maybe prospects + major league talent.
Yankees package could have been headline by Severino, Sanchez and Judge etc….Cardinals package would be headlined by Luke Weaver, Jack Flaherty, Alexander Reyes etc..Mets package: Snydergard, Conforto, Matz etc…Indians package headlined by: Francisco Lindor, Clint Frazier, Francisco Mejia, Justice Sheffield etc..Red Sox package could have include: Rafael Devers, Edwardo Rodriquez and more…
But, you get the idea…..Other sweeteners/young players could have been included from any of these or other major league teams to get the deal done…
Remember, many of these players listed were merely minor league prospects at the time and had not established their higher end values as major league impact star player….They were mere question marks and/.or lottery tickets at that time….
So in answer to your statement,,,,,Yes a Scherzer deal at the end of the 2013 season. in the winter or at the beginning of the 2014 season would have certainly returned to the Tigers multiple building block, future star like players to replemish their farm system and major league team….
He’d of probably been part of Tiger King?
Had he stayed, and the Tigers were in contention, the Mets may not have gotten Cespedes, who sparked their pennant run that year.
Probably take a wild card spot in 2015, as they were heading into the All-Star break. No Zimmerman signing, most likely. Possibly no Price trade.
No Price trade would have meant SS Willy Adames starting in Detroit now (future All Star) and 3B Eugenio Suarez playing 3B for the Tigers (49 home runs 103 RBIs) instead of the Reds..
Tigers would be contending now if Scherzer was dealt and Tigers got a huge haul for him..
If you think Suarez would be as homer-happy at cavernous Comerica Park as he’s been in Cincinnati, think again. When Suarez got dealt to the Reds, absolutely nobody would have predicted that he had that kind of power.
Maybe, he would not be hitting 49 home runs, but Suarez has morphed into a star who could hit 35 home runs every year.
And, Tigers were foolish to give up on him before he even had a chance to show what he could do in MLB.
How would that have had any impact on Suarez. The Tigers chose Jose Iglesias over Suarez at short. No one had any desire to move him to third until he was in Cincy for over a year.
Suarez plays good D. His bat would find him a spot somewhere in INF or OF.
It did not have to be SS.
I meant no Price trade to Toronto. Tigers would have been holding a WC spot in 2015. You’re right in that perhaps they don’t make the Suarez deal.
Tigers would still stink but they would have got a huge ransom for him. Actually since Al Avila is in charge they wouldn’t have.
Dombrowski was in charge of the Tigers until August of 2015,, one year later, so the Tigers would have received a great haul for Scherzer.
The question is what if he stayed in DET. That means he would have had to been signed for 2015 and beyond. And theres no way they trade him before august of 2015
Smart move would have been to trade him in ’14.
Load up on young talent.
A few judicious trades and Tigers are contending now..
What if Scherzer signed with the Pirates , i bet they mad him a pretty lucrative offer
Pirates never made a 200M+ offer for Scherzer A@ 30M per year
What if Max stayed a D-back?
Then 2011 playoffs wouldn’t have happened..
If Scherzer had been signed, Price trade would not have been made. Tigers would have been competitive in 2015, thus no trades in 2015 and Dombrowski doesn’t get fired. Competive in 2016 and 2017. JV would still be a Tiger. Tigers win 2-3 World Series, and Brad Ausmus would be a future HOF manager. (jk on the last point)
That is the real question, what if the Tigers got a good manager to replace Leyland? Francona was available. Those Tigers teams are in the conversation for best teams to not win a World Series.
Scherzer, Verlander, Porcello, peak Fister. Not to mention the bats. Jeesh Louis, that’s some sour grapes.
They still had Leyland and Ausmus. The Tigers were never going to win a World Series with either of those two calling the shots.
Never understood why Leyland loved Brandon Inge so much. Not everyone needs to be an all star for a team to win a World Series but come on now. Inge and Don Kelly were my turn off the TV players.
he’d be an angel by now.
just like Cole
First off only way he signed extension is without Boros as his agent. He could have resigned but no way he gets more than Verlander
You hire Boros when you won’t sign. Boros auctions his clients to the highest budder in free agency. It is rare that a Boros client stays with the same team. Boros does not give home team discounts.
Boros is after the highest $$$$ for his client and himself.
Boros, DD, and Mike I had a wonderful relationship. Boros had little to do with Max’s decision. Max looked at the grand total vs. the annual pay. He won the lottery, but preferred to pass on the lump sum and take the deferred payments.
That is complete nonsense….on many levels…Boros was driving the Scherzer free agent train even to the point that he was allegedly advising Scherzer to pull himself out of pennant race games and playoff games in the 5th or 6th innings on a regular basis to “save himself for free agency”…
Scherzer never pitched a complete game and rarely pitched deep into games for the Tigers which overtaxed and hurt the Tigers “weak link” bullpen.
Then, miraculously, after Scherzer signs with the Nationals, all of a sudden he is pitching into the 7th, 8th and 9th innings and pitching complete games.?!?! That, obviously, had alot to do with saving himself for free agency…..That has Boros written all over it…..though the parties will deny it, I saw some of those games on TV and Scherzer would, routinely, go to his manager in Detroit ahd take himself out of the game in the 5th or 6 inning…..Scherzer never did that with the Tigers…He always wanted out of games early like in the 5th or 6th inning..
Boros took advantage of Mike Ilitch,,,He had Mike’s cell phone number. Boros is the one who went around Dave Dombrowski and dumped Prince Fielder on the Tigers when Dombrowski was not interested in Prince as a 1 dimensional player/DH type…Tigers already had too many slow, DH types,.,,,Boros went around Dombrowski and had Illitch signe a deal without Dombrowski’s knowledge and without his approval.
The Fielder Deal busted the Tigers budget and left a huge hole in the Tigers bullpen that cost the Tigers at least 1 if not multiple World Series Titles….Tigers had to go cheap on closers and set up men,,,,,That was exposed in the playoffs and World Series when the Tigers could not hold a lead..
What if Napoleon had a B2 Stealth bomber at Waterloo? Might as well ask that instead of this stupid question.
Any time an article starts with the words “what if”, they are out of things to write about.
So true.
Woiuld not have matteeed
No one in Napoleon’s army would know how to fly a B-2 Bomber!
Dang reality intruding on fantasy again…
6r – Lion was being sarcastic.
That’s OK I was being a literalist
and where is that [sarcasm alert] when you need it
Whoa, guys I don’t think you really wanna go back there. I mean, our Buddy Long John Silver here left the GAS running in the House, real Bright! I mean, what if the house blows up…
I can’t believe… that I just DID that, I am Responsible for the Destruction of my best friends personal property!
I did too! Something happened, I don’t know what it is, but now every time I say WHAT IF about something it comes true, and back there I said “What if the the house blows up”, and it blew up!
Wow, I have this tremendous responsibility! What if I lose this power?
Oh no, I just said what if I lose this power! Damn it, I had it, then I lost it!
A good thing, too. In a matter of seconds, he would’ve said “what if the universe imploded” with that kind of self-control.
What if Max Scherzer had stayed a D’Back?. Arizona got nothing of value in that trade.
I was not as high on Max at that moment. But the brain trust in AZ should have bet on his character and work ethic, already knowing the raw talent was there. I would also argue however they did get something-though not the same level- Scherzers to the Nats set in motion a series of circumstance that led to the D-Backs acquiring Robbie Ray who still has some ceiling room to move up