We’ve heard an awful lot of chatter over the years about the Padres trying to acquire premium MLB rotation pieces — Noah Syndergaard, etc. They’ve yet to swing such a deal, but nevertheless have managed to compile rather an interesting slate of starters.
While much of the excitement has remained focused on the future — MacKenzie Gore, Luis Patino, and more — that tends to obscure the present. There’s an intriguing blend of reasonable expectations and soaring upside in the unit on hand.
Let’s start with a few projections …
The composite expectations of ZiPS & Steamer present rather a favorable view of the Friars’ starting unit, predicting ~3 WAR performances from Chris Paddack, Garrett Richards, and Dinelson Lamet. That system likes Paddack a bit more than the other two, due mostly to an expectation that he’ll make three more starts. ZiPS sees Joey Lucchesi as a sturdy 2.5 WAR hurler and likes Zach Davies to deliver in the range of 1.5 WAR. It’s less than enthused about Cal Quantrill as the top depth piece.
PECOTA tells a broadly similar tale of possibilities, but bakes in added padding for the long-term health questions facing Richards and Lamet. The Baseball Prospectus computers are also significantly less optimistic when it comes to the quality of Lucchesi and Davies.
This is a good time to pause and consider the context. Getting ~13 WAR out of a rotation would mean having one of the ten or so best staffs in baseball. In terms of projections, the Fangraphs numbers put the San Diego starting group behind the Dodgers but slightly ahead of the Diamondbacks on paper. 13 is a pretty strong number as mean expectations go. Even with superstar Jacob deGrom, but sans Noah Syndergaard, the Mets sit at a ~15 WAR projection.
Of course, that PECOTA projection hints at the real downside concern here. Both Richards and Lamet returned last year from Tommy John surgery. We’ve seen plenty of hurlers put that procedure in the rearview mirror, but some can run into difficulties — sometimes as other, potentially connected health problems arise — after showing initial promise. (Matt Harvey, anyone?) The hope is to unleash Paddack fully after keeping him on a leash last year, but he’s also a fairly recent TJ recipient.
And what of the other members of the staff? Davies has mostly produced very solid numbers, but he struggled quite a lot in 2018 and his peripherals didn’t excite in 2019. Davies logged a 3.55 ERA last year but FIP (4.56), xFIP (5.20) and SIERA (5.43) were decidedly unimpressed. Lucchesi was steadier in 2019 but doesn’t have as long of a track record. These are solid and useful pitchers, but they’re unlikely to lead the way if the top trio falters.
Depth isn’t necessarily a strong suit, either. Quantrill hasn’t really shown a spark to this stage of his career. Luis Perdomo and Matt Strahm seem likelier to work out in the bullpen. Other 40-man members — Adrian Morejon, Michael Baez, Ronald Bolanos — are quite speculative as immediate-term MLB starters. There are some non-roster players with experience in Jerad Eickhoff (looking to bounce back after washing out with the Phillies), Seth Frankoff (back from a successful KBO stint), Jacob Nix and Brett Kennedy (outrighted after struggling in 2018 debuts with the Pads). But it’s tough to rely much upon that slate of players.
Frankly, though, the reasonably anticipated scenario and the downside scenario aren’t the interesting ones. This is a season in which the Friars face long odds — if indeed it gets underway at all. Upside is where it’s at.
When it comes to ceiling, there’s a lot to like about this staff. Let’s start with Paddack, who faded as he got deep into a personal-high workload of 140 2/3 innings. He has now handled a full season in the majors and can build off of that without restraint. Last year, as a 23-year-old rookie, he pitched to a 3.33 ERA with 9.8 K/9 and 2.0 BB/9 over 26 starts. With further growth, he could blossom into a legitimate #1 starter.
And hang on … are we underestimating Richards and Lamet? The former didn’t exactly return to top form in the results department late in 2019, but the fact he was able to get back to competitive action was quite promising. If he can work anywhere near his career norm (3.60 ERA) he’d be a huge piece for the Pads. The flamethrowing former Angels ace arguably has ceiling beyond that.
Lamet is perhaps even more interesting. He not only was able to make it through 14 starts in 2019, working to a solid 4.07 ERA, but generated an eye-popping 12.9 K/9. Lamet showed bigger velocity (96+ mph average fastball) and swinging-strike ability (14.0% SwStr) than he did in his rookie season.
It isn’t altogether impossible to imagine a three-headed monster forming at the top of this Padres staff … if everything breaks right. Combined with the two other quality starters — not to mention a similarly intriguing relief mix fronted by Kirby Yates, Emilio Pagan, and Drew Pomeranz — you can begin to see the possibilities for a pitching-led Padres breakout. This is all the more interesting since we’re looking at a short-season format where depth may not matter to quite the same extent (or, at least, not in quite the same way) as usual.
Is that likely to happen? Not so much. And any hopes of Gore and/or Patino streaking to the majors in 2020 likely went out the window when the coronavirus arrived, eliminating the potential for a typical minor-league season. That robs another upside scenario. Still, the Padres’ rotation is a particularly interesting one to watch … or, it will be if and when we finally get ballgames rolling.
padreforlife
Hate to wake u up from slumber but there is no 2020 season looks good for 2021 though
acarneglia
Way to be an optimist
lowtalker1
Watch it happen in Arizona
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
yes there will be. theres a chance it will be starting in may in arizona
VegasSDfan
Theres a chance it could snow in July in Arizona as well.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
delete your account
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
sorry wrong reply
Rangers29
I’ve noticed over my years of being a baseball fan, that the Padres never had a memorable rotation. Cory Luebke, Tim Stauffer, and Clayton Richard were in their rotation 10-15 years ago, and since then the most memorable guy they’ve had is James Shields (hopefully Paddack tops that). I like the upside of this rotation, but the guy I like the most is Zach Davies, he is a good breakout candidate to watch.
Mjm117
Agreed, except the Zach Davies part.
Pad’s havent’ had a stud Ace since the former Marlin great Kevin Brown toted the mound in his only season back in ’98.
Friarfaithful117
Jake Peavy? Won a Cy Young in 2007
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
facts
harrid4
Jake Peavy won a Cy Young and was a stud ace for years
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
They have had plenty of guys who fit that bill. Mat Latos and Jake Peavy come to mind.
rickthestick
I’d say that the 2007 Padres rotation with Jake Peavy (Cy Young), Greg Maddux (HOF), Chris Young, and David Wells was not too shabby. Especially with Hoffman, Bell, Brocail and Linebrink in the bullpen.
jdgoat
Cashner and Ross both looked to be the beginning of a good one for a bit there. They sure fell off fast though.
padrefan
I thought Jake Peavy, Chris Young, Greg Maddux and David Wells was a pretty memorable starting 4 for the Padres in 2007.
Rangers29
If I’m being honest, 07′ is a little before my time as a fan, I know Peavy, Maddux, Young, and even Wells, but I was saying during my time as a fan. Good thoughts though.
Koamalu
How old are you? 12?
Strike Four
How about you stop talking on here if all your opinions are only based from like 2012-present? Jeezus f.n C what an infuriatingly dumb mind you have.
brucenewton
Maddux and Wells were at the end of line in their careers at that point.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
how about you delete your account
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
how about you delete your account? no one cares wut you have to say
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
(to strike four)
Rangers29
Dude, I can’t help when I started watching the game, ok? All I said is that “over my time of being a fan” the padres have never had a memorable rotation. That doesn’t mean 1998, that means in recent memory, so about 10 years. Quit putting people down because of when they became a fan.
BTW, you’re not dumb just because you weren’t watching baseball in 1998.
jdgoat
Don’t worry about that guy Rangers29. We all haven’t wrote books about the history of the game and every team.
i like al conin
You’re policing who can post on here? If you’re allowed then so should everyone else. And back the F off.
lowtalker1
Um.. 2005-2007
How about 96-98
We can go back further if you’d like
Padres strength has always been the rotation
Strike Four
Ah yes, the “baseball history begins and ends when I decide it does” mind, its a reallllly dumb one!!!
Jake Peavy was elite for years for the Padres. They also had Kevin Brown way before Peavy (one of the best players not in the HOF but who should be).
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
the only smart thing you have ever said was curry should be the face of the nba
eduardoaraisa98
The Padres 2014 pitching staff was pretty good
mlb1225
Lots of potential in that rotation. They could have 3 aces starting it off in Gore, Pantino and Paddack, with Dinelson Lamet making a solid #4. Then having Luccchesi, Morejon, Quantrill or Davies making up the #5 starter? On paper, that looks like a top tier rotation. Hopefully for them, most of their prospects work out.
harrid4
I agree. This article is a bit too dismissive of the impact the Gore could/will have. Assuming a reduced season happens, he will most likely spend the full season with the Padres. Peeler needs to win now.
DarkSide830
you could also mention Pedro Avila as a non roster option as well.
Friarfaithful117
I think he had TJ
lowtalker1
Yup
Padres2019ha
Just realized we paid RmGarret Richards $7.5 mil last year just to rehab so we could pay him another $7.5 mil this year. basically$15 mil for THIS YEAR. Now he might not pitch in a Padres uniform at all so we wasted that salary last year. Dam, and I thought theDodgers got hosed for trading for Mmmmoookiee
lowtalker1
He has pitched in a padre uniform so your crying is a moot point
Padres2019ha
What did you say
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
He said you’re illiterate
Padres2019ha
Nah cool guy, he didn’t say that. Maybe you don’t read guhd either because you two dummy’s…missed.the.point.
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
No we didn’t. You did. Paying Garrett Richards $15m to never pitch for the Padres is nowhere near as bad as giving up Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs and Connor Wong and taking David Price (even with the Red Sox paying half his contract) and then having Mookie Betts never play for the Dodgers.
PS: Learn how to use periods correctly.
Koamalu
If there is no season, the Padres won’t be paying Richards this season. He was paid $7.0 million last season and was due $8.5 million this season
Padres2019ha
yes dude, but if we don’t play this year, we paid him $7.5 mil for NOTHING
VegasSDfan
I understand that the players are not getting paid yet, besides for sign on bonuses etc.
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
Dodgers trading for Mookie is worse. Verdugo, Downs and Wong plus the dead money they owe to D. Price are worth way more than what the Padres paid Richards.
Magnum
The Padres would have been blasted continuesly at this point if they had traded for Mookie.
nypadre66
Just think of him as a more expensive version of Mark Prior (Paid $2M for 2 years, never pitched an inning) and Josh Johnson (paid $9M for 2 years, never pitched an inning).
VegasSDfan
Richard’s threw 8 innings late last year, so it wouldn’t be the same.
nypadre66
8 innings of meaningless garbage.
Strike Four
Padres looking REALLY good in 2021.
Afk711
Really good for 3rd place
Strike Four
Except you are extremely wrong.
AND 3rd place still is a postseason team.
So you’re wrong on multiple levels. Great discourse, you really added to the convo, champ.
Afk711
Tell me why the Padres will be better than the Dbacks or Dodgers in 1 year. Let’s hear it.
brucenewton
Baby steps. 3rd place in the west will not grab a WC birth. 2nd place probably won’t either.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
finally someone who has a brain
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
strike four mightve been kicked by a horse. bro, do you realize that the padres were a fluke last year too? they were supposed to be good last year too. the giants will be better than them again
Javia
Do you have anything to back up your opinion tward09? The Giants have zero major league talent. Their minors are empty. How exactly are they going to be better than the Padres?
The Human Rain Delay
The Padres have huge upside this year
so many ways they could arrange the OD lineup
Tatis ss
Pham Cf
Machado 3b
Hos 1b
Meyers Lf
Grisham Rf
Hedge/Mejia C
Profar/2b upgrade via trade later
Paddack- P
Grisham has sneaky breakout potential, I do think they need the 2b upgrade and will get it either via trade or if no season before 2021 tips off in FA – Dont get all the Padre hate, this teams def on the Up N Up and fast
Afk711
Thats supposed to be impressive? Tatis, Pham and Machado are nice but beyond that the Padres lineup is extremely underwhelming witu Capusano the only bat in the minors that can add to that. And thats assuming Machado doesn’t have another bleh season. They have a ton of holes and no finacial flexibility to spend. Preller blew their budget on 2 guys.
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
Taylor Trammell can add to that
The Human Rain Delay
No financial flexibility???……… Time for you to head over to Spotrac and take a look
Holes? They need a 2b, 1 vet Sp and resign Yates……..with about 40 mill to buy with if they keep the same 145 payroll as this year – Not difficult
nypadre66
the same Trammell who hit .230 in AA playing LF?
nypadre66
You’re basing Grisham on 130 at bats in the PCL last year when everyone was crushing it. Hell, France hit .399 last year and he’s no Ted Williams. Grisham hit about .230 in A and AA with little power or contact. I don’t know why everyone expects he’ll be the answer when he underperformed Margot, Renfroe and other meh players every step of the way.
Afk711
If they had any finacial flexibility they would have spent it this offseason on Strasburg who couldn’t be a better fit for the Padres. That roster won 71 games and you actually think they only have a few holes lol. SS, 3B and C are the only spots on their positipn player roster that aren’t holes. They also need 2 more elite starting pitchers and as much as you want to hype up Gore amd Patino its far from a guarantee they turn into that.
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
@JD Candello oh but according to like half of the fanbase they have depth at 2nd base and that’s why they traded Luis Urias!
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
@nypadre66 the same Trammell who ranks #57 on MLBPipeline
The Human Rain Delay
2021 AFK
Mike- I dont think Profar is the answer but stranger things have happened
Padre – Im basing Grisham off the limited time in Mil i saw…. He had plug and play fantasy/DFS value for a time leading off for Mil so Id watch many of his at-bats on Mlb network
– Hes got a good eye and some pop- Is athletic w speed as well….Will it all come together idk but hes a lot more intriguing than Margot and now they got Pagan in the pen as well for that cast-off- Dont discount the PHAM man at the top either, very capable of a 390 obp setting the table
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
Profar is garbage but A. J. needed a new lap-dog now that Jose Pirela is gone so here we are.
VegasSDfan
Clearly you dont look at other teams lineups from mmn top to bottom
nypadre66
So lower on the prospect rankings than Margot or Renfroe were.
Javia
Yep, and just 6 places behind where Pete Alonzo was ranked just before he was called up. We all saw how that went. What’s your point?
nypadre66
My point is that prospect rankings don’t mean much. Remember Ruben Rivera? He was #2 and then #3 and was a lousy major leaguer. But boy did he have tools! Trammel hit .230 and wasn’t a good enough CF to play there for the Reds’ AA team. I’ll believe it when I start to see performance.
andrewgauldin
I think Richards and Lamet definitely have the ability to each be 3WAR pitchers. But that’s potential… I’d say getting 3WAR out of Lamet and Richards COMBINED would be a huge win for the Padres.
andrewgauldin
With that being said I really like what they have going on as a pitching staff as a whole. Some good vets with potential, looking for bounce backs. A few underrated guys. Top tier prospects. And a stellar bullpen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them have the best pitching staff in the NL west, or even The whole NL.
Angels & NL West
The Padre bullpen is one of the best in MLB. They should be a huge benefit to this staff by shortening the number of innings needed per start.
Two other things that could be of help to the starters are their catchers pitch framing capabilities and infield/outfield defense. I’m not sure where the Padres stand in these two areas.
Lots of potential in San Diego. The future looks bright in “America’s Finest City.”
Keep it classy, San Diego.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
how long are you gonna tell yourself that? it sucks
mlb1225
Yates, Pomeranz, Pagan, Stammen are a really good combo. That’s leaving out Michel Baez, and Javy Guerra. Very good pitching staff overall.
The Human Rain Delay
And Munoz though he will be out till mid 2021
mlb1225
Also forgot about Jose Castillo. Really really good in 2018, missed nearly all of 2019, but he has the potential to be an extremely effective lefty relief pitcher.
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Left out Strahm to who’s shown to be a very effective relief pitcher compared to starter.
2.05 eraor something his full year of relief and like 3.3 era in 33 or so innings when he converted back to a relief pitcher last year.
VegasSDfan
Padres 2020 bullpen is possibly their best ever.
The Human Rain Delay
Scary as hell- They need 1 vet leader 2021 to add to Paddack Patino Gore Lamet – Someone who can teach them the ropes and has been around the block a time or two-
Pen has a lotta upside as well-
This team has very few holes left to fill 2021 (2b Closer 1 Sp)
its_happening
So they need a vet and fill a few holes yet they are scary as hell? Sounds like you summed up a squad slightly better than mediocre. If that’s not what you’re trying to say you might want to re-think your next comment. Trying to keep it positive here. Good lord knows someone has to.
The Human Rain Delay
Yup scary as hell as a Dodger fan – Paddack Gore Patino Lamet set in the rotation Machado Tatis on the right side of the inf – I dont know where your going here but Im sure Padre fans feel just fine right now with their future
brucenewton
A shorter season would probably benefit the Padres starting pitchers by keeping their innings down. They’re all fairly young and/or not far removed from elbow surgery. Only Lucchesi made 30 starts and crossed 150 innings last year.
The Padres did well building up the workloads of Paddack and Lamet after both missed a full calendar with TJS. Pitchers that miss a whole year generally can put TJS behind them if they’re limited to 100 innings or less upon returning the following year. Which the Padres did with both. Anderson Espinoza is one example that the surgery can be unsuccessful.
Comparing them to Harvey, as you did, is apples to oranges though. Harvey missed a full calendar year and half of the year prior. Then the Mets ignored the doctors and let Harvey throw 240 innings over 39 starts in 2015 ( spring training, regular season, playoffs ). Unprecedented in baseball history. Harvey didn’t do himself any favors off the field but the Mets straight up ruined him.
In Hindsight the Angels set Richards back by nickel and diming his injured elbow with the plasma injections they seem to love. If he’d just got the surgery initially he’d be in a better spot today. He threw 18 innings total last year. Expecting 3WAR from him this year is generous. Pushing him for 30 starts would be a stretch.
The Human Rain Delay
Indeed; I do think a 100 game season would favor Sd – Could probably get 80 starts from the top 4 and navigate those other 20 with the surplus depth in the pen better (relative to other teams)- Would keep all the arms under any inn caps as well possibly getting some last month heroics from the farm if in position
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Padres could easily toss out a starter to go 4 innings and then use the pen or another starter to close out games to keep the work load light for Paddack Gore Richards Patino and Lamet, if it’s a shortened season I can see Padres calling up both gore and patino
Davies and Lucheessi should be the only guys that gives them as many innings as they can. Everyone else should be on a limit.
SportsFan0000
Matthew Boyd would be a perfect fit in the Padres rotation if they could work out a deal with the Tigers..
Koamalu
Boyd is a mid-4 ERA starter. With all the promising young arms they have now and coming, why would they consider him?
Javia
Detroit wants premium prospects for Boyd. The Padres will not give that to them.
I know it is a very short example to judge by, but this spring training both Lamet and Richards looked amazing. Both of them have had their stuff come all the way back. Lamet’s has actually gotten better after surgery. Lamet hit 100 last year with his FB, he averaged over 96 and Richards was hitting 97 regularly in spring. They also showed 2 of the best sliders in mlb after surgery. They are recovered. As long as nothing flares up, those are 2 guys with double plus stuff. Their command has come back as well.
brucenewton
They could use a veteran workhorse capable of close to 200 innings. Boyd might work but he’s not that great. The Tigers apparently are wanting an ace-like haul for him. Padres would be wise to look elsewhere.
mlb1225
The Padres would be better off taking a gamble with Morejon, Quantrill, Perdromo, or Straham.
Javia
Both Perdomo and Strahm have already gotten their chances as starters and both failed to seize it. Morejon is not ready. Quantrill is. He had a 3.32 ERA until his last month. For a large part of last season he was their best starter outside of Paddack.
mlb1225
Yes, but what I’m trying to say is that why trade for Matt Boyd, a guy who’s had a 4.70 ERA and 4.41 FIP, when Morejon, Strahm or Pedromo could probably do just as good as Boyd?
Javia
True. I mean based on ERA alone Matt Boyd would be the Padres #6 starter. Hard to see the Padres paying a premium price for a replacement quality starter.
MikeEmbletonSmellsBad
If the Padres want to trade for a Tigers starter Daniel Norris is the one they should go after. Matthew Boyd is just another Chris Archer.
SportsFan0000
Padres should hire Dave Dombrowski as Pres/GM
if they are serious about winning a World Series Title.
AJ Preller helped rebuild the farm. But, I don’t seek Preller getting the Padres back to the World Series. Preller has made two many questionable trades and signings recently.I don’t think Preller knows how to build out a World Series contender and winner….
On paper, he built a good rising team. But, he cannot put the finishing touches on a contender.
brucenewton
DD needs financial flexibility and a big payroll to build a legit WS contender. Padres can’t offer him that. Preller himself stated in the offseason he didn’t have the financial means to chase any more big money players. Machado, Hosmer and Myers eat too much of their payroll. None have a contract that could be traded at close to full value. Stay the course and hope to hit on some of their young talent is all they can do at this point.
its_happening
If the Padres owner says spend, there’s the flexibility. DD didn’t exactly have a ton of room in Boston when he arrived. There were bloated contracts like Sandoval and HanRam. DD is the guy to put the Padres over the top.
bbatardo
As a San Diegan.. sounds about right. Just when the Padres might be decent and surprise people they won’t play lol
JP17
It’s kind of funny that this entire thread is talking about some of the best Padre rotations, with some of you even talking about 1998, but nobody mentioned Andy Ashby. He was the #2 behind Kevin Brown, even though he out pitched Brown the entire season. # 3 was Sterling Hitchcock. He was a great lefty for the Padres team that made it to the World Series. Of course you had Trevor Hoffman in his prime, and he’s a HOFer.