Major League Baseball has concluded its investigation into 2018 sign-stealing allegations against the Red Sox and imposed the following disciplinary measures:
- The Red Sox are stripped of their second-round pick in the 2020 amateur draft
- Red Sox advance scout/replay coordinator J.T. Watkins has been suspended without pay for the 2020 season and is prohibited from holding his previous role for the 2021 season
- Former manager Alex Cora, fired by the Red Sox earlier this year, has been banned through the 2020 postseason — although only for his role in the Astros’ 2017 sign-stealing scandal.
Those penalties pale in comparison to what many felt was a light Astros punishment in response to their 2017 trash can scheme; Houston GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch were both suspended one year (and subsequently fired by the team), while the organization was fined the maximum permissible $5MM and stripped of first- and second-round picks in each of the next two drafts.
Red Sox CEO Sam Kennedy issued the following statement via press release:
As an organization, we strive for 100% compliance with the rules. MLB’s investigation concluded that in isolated instances during the 2018 regular season, sign sequences were decoded through the use of live game video rather than through permissible means. MLB acknowledged the front office’s extensive efforts to communicate and enforce the rules and concluded that Alex Cora, the coaching staff, and most of the players did not engage in, nor were they aware of, any violations. Regardless, these rule violations are unacceptable. We apologize to our fans and Major League Baseball, and accept the Commissioner’s ruling.
The league announced the findings of what it terms an “exhaustive investigation into allegations of improper use of the video replay room.” Within, commissioner Rob Manfred offered the following breakdown of his findings:
- “I find that J.T. Watkins, the Red Sox video replay system operator, on at least some occasions during the 2018 regular season, utilized the game feeds in the replay room, in violation of MLB regulations, to revise sign sequence information that he had permissibly provided to players prior to the game.
- I find that unlike the Houston Astros’ 2017 conduct, in which players communicated to the batter from the dugout area in real time the precise type of pitch about to be thrown, Watkins’s conduct, by its very nature, was far more limited in scope and impact. The information was only relevant when the Red Sox had a runner on second base (which was 19.7% of plate appearances league-wide in 2018), and Watkins communicated sign sequences in a manner that indicated that he had decoded them from the in-game feed in only a small percentage of those occurrences.
- I do not find that then-Manager Alex Cora, the Red Sox coaching staff, the Red Sox front office, or most of the players on the 2018 Red Sox knew or should have known that Watkins was utilizing in-game video to update the information that he had learned from his pregame analysis. Communication of these violations was episodic and isolated to Watkins and a limited number of Red Sox players only.
- I find that the Red Sox front office consistently communicated MLB’s sign-stealing rules to non-player staff and made commendable efforts toward instilling a culture of compliance in their organization.”
Manfred goes on to emphasize that while he has previously granted players immunity in exchange for truthful testimony in both the Astros and Red Sox investigations, the findings of his Red Sox inquiry would not have led him to consider disciplining players anyhow (which surely would not have been the case with regard to the Astros). The loss of the draft pick, per the commissioner, stems from the fact that he still felt the organization should be held accountable for benefiting from data that was obtained improperly.
Manfred’s report on the investigation details that every player who spent time with the 2018 Red Sox was interviewed in some capacity and provided what were deemed truthful testimonies. A total of 65 witnesses were interviewed during the course of the investigation, and MLB’s department of investigations (DOI) reviewed “tens of thousands of emails, text messages, video clips and photographs,” per the report.
Watkins, the employee on whom the entirety of the wrongdoing is blamed by commissioner Manfred, was an advance scout tasked with using video to decode signs before and after Red Sox games — a permissible act that falls within MLB’s guidelines on the implementation of technology within the game. However, he was also the team’s replay reviewer, responsible during games for coordinating with Cora on whether to challenge a call or not. The report notes that other clubs had that same setup, but an investigation into the Red Sox found that Watkins would, at times, alter pre-game sign sequencing information in the middle of an active game. While most players who were interviewed said they had no knowledge of any wrongdoing by Watkins, others acknowledged that they had suspicions after the data coming from Watkins changed over the course of a game.
Watkins, per Manfred, has “vehemently denied” any such practice, although clearly based on the punishment levied by the league, Manfred and the DOI felt sufficient evidence to the contrary was present. Moreover, the commissioner’s report highlights that Watkins was a “key participant” in the 2017 Apple Watch incident that led to a fine for the Red Sox and helped bring questions about improper use of technology to light on a national basis.
With regard to any potential postseason wrongdoing, Manfred adds that the commissioner’s office positioned “full-time, in-person monitors in replay rooms to prevent the improper use of video equipment.” Such measures were not in place throughout the regular season.
It’s not yet clear precisely why the investigation was so prolonged in the first place and perhaps never will be. Major League Baseball was initially planning to release its findings before the end of February. When the investigation lingered into March, the COVID-19 pandemic obviously and understandably took precedence, thus bringing about a delay of nearly two months that only seems to have heightened the general public reaction that the Boston organization escaped mostly unscathed. But the initial delay into March was never fully explained.
The loss of that second-round pick will give the Sox one less selection in an already shortened draft and dock $1,403,200 from Boston’s pool (the would-be value of that vacated second-rounder). Previously, they’d been slated to have a $6.514MM pool in the event of a five-round draft and a $7.482MM pool for a 10-round format. Put another way, they’ll lose anywhere from 18.8 percent to 21.6 percent of their 2020 draft budget due to the league’s ruling.
Unexplained within Manfred’s report is just why the punishment for Cora, who was called out as an architect of the trash-can-banging setup with the 2017 Astros, is lighter than those which were brought upon Luhnow and Hinch. Cora’s rank within the organization was lower, but his role in the team’s transgressions appears to have been much more integral. Yet Luhnow and Hinch were banned for one year, beginning Jan. 13, 2020 and running through Jan. 13 of 2021, while Cora is only barred through the end of postseason play in 2020. Technically, he could have a job in baseball again before the bans on Hinch and Luhnow have been lifted — despite a pivotal role in the Astros’ scandal and, if not a direct role in the Red Sox’ 2018 infractions, then some negligence or a lack of oversight that one would think should be deemed alarming.
Ultimately, the light punishment for the Sox boils down to the fact that Manfred and his charges are convinced that the wrongdoing was more limited in scope than that of the Astros and largely fell on the shoulders of one employee. Fans and onlookers will, of course, draw their own conclusions about the legitimacy of that finding the the pervasiveness (or lack thereof) of similar setups throughout the league. At this point, however, that’s all largely rendered moot; the commissioner’s punishment has been set, and the matter has been put to bed.
The Red Sox announced not long after Kennedy’s statement that they’ll host a conference call with reporters tonight at 7pm ET, at which point they’ll surely field additional questions on the investigation and its ramifications.
Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic first reported the findings of commissioner Manfred’s investigation, minutes prior to the official announcement.
ChiSoxCity
Cheaters.
Francys01
That’s it. What about a fine? I am not surprised by this punishment with the commissioner we have. The Astros cheated and they still have their championship.
speedy217r
What did you expect from a do nothing commissioner
Jonny5
Dude, your obsession with hating on the cardinals at every opportunity is really tiresome. Don’t you think about ANYTHING else?
delete
It’s sad that the Commissioner has used a global disaster to further sweep the worst cheating scandal in history under the carpet.
Ironman_4life
Explain? He dows what the owners do. Do you have a problem with the commissioner instead of whining and complaining about it you should wine and complain to your owner of your favorite team
fredziffel78
Agreed.
chippahawk
Absolutely Preschool compared to how the Braves got hammered.
Appalachian_Outlaw
No doubt. I’m shocked more teams aren’t outraged. The Braves got hammered for doing something pretty common, supposedly. Coppy was just a bit too bold.
Two teams have literally cheated the game and the league here, and this is it?! I don’t condone cheating, but if this is the penalty, how is it not worth the gamble?
Woods Rider
I hate the Braves, but this is absolutely accurate.
scurvyrickets
Johny5, don’t worry ChiSoxFan also trolls the Cubs and just about every other team that has a competent organization. I’m pretty convinced he’s 12, but I was wrong. He actually has a website (blog) about the Sux (I did that funny thing again!!) with like 13 readers. So yeah, he doesn’t have much of a life. But atleast he has those fireworks at US Cell or whatever garbage it’s called now.
looiebelongsinthehall
Timing of this release is designed to get everyone to soon talk about the NFL draft. Something stinks here. If it weren’t for Watchgate, this could have been a full pass. Because of it though, as “minor” as it’s been reported even if 100% accurate. The penalties should have been far worse.
Dorothy_Mantooth
What the Red Sox did is much more common that what the Braves did.
wordonthestreet
Too funny!
derrik.haley
Didn’t the Cardinals hack the Astros? What was that penalty?
Eatdust666
Permanent ban and 46 months in prison for Chris Correa, giving up two draft picks to Astros and also paying them $2 million.
WillieMaysHayes24
Stfu. Seriously, you’re ignorant beyond belief.
Show me all the cardinals fans clamoring for stiffer penalties. I’ll wait.
WillieMaysHayes24
Thought so. You ramble on and on about s*** that isn’t even happening (outside of the fantasy world you live in) and then can’t back up your ignorance with anything but more insults and deflection.
You’ve got some wonderful karma coming your way I’m sure 🙂
just here for the comments
Willie Mays Hayes taking steroids or something, Bc that sounds like roid rage to me.
Maurice Lock
Who is Willie talking to on here? Sounds like he’s nuts.
Iknowmorebaseball
The Cardinals were stealing signs illegally before the Astros. Everyone remembers that season when Cards where hitting 400 with men in scoring position as a team and deep deep into the season. I recall announcer saying that they were out hitting all teams by over 100 points. Craig had a MVP like season that year then got released soon after. Tony Naruto was behind it and was the biggest POS
Tim_Buck-Two
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Craig hurt his foot and was never the same again, similar injuries have happened to Dontrelle Willis, Fernando Tatis, Ryan Howard, and Scott Rolen. The Cardinals had 4 years in a row where they did some crazy stuff like pinch hit home runs, starter ERA, Batting average with runners in scoring position, but it was all because they were stealing signs. Especially starters ERA.
troll
standard $5 mil
soxshortstop
ST-FU Ozzie
Ironman_4life
Let me ask you this. In a couple years if Altuve and Bregman are on your White Sox , how will you feel about them?
scurvyrickets
ChiSoxFan- I Love your website, lol. I guess it’s tough sitting in moms basement and commenting on MLB Trade Rumors all day. You provide some pretty amazing insight on your page lolololol.
Everybody, go help out ChiSoxFan and check his website out!!! Or maybe his cool Twitch channel with 0 subscriptions lololololll. Oh Magnus lol
soxmachine.com/members/magnuskit/profile/
RickEO
Zilch zero nada
BennyTheBoss
They got off easy
all in the suit that you wear
The Red Sox deserve punishment. I have been interested in answering the question: Did the Red Sox benefit from cheating?
Looking at the numbers: If the Red Sox stole/decoded signs in 2018, it did not help them win the World Series. During the regular season, they were 108-54 for a winning percentage of 0.667. During the postseason, when it was impossible to steal or decode signs, they were 11-3 for a winning percentage of 0.786. Therefore, the 2018 Red Sox were ACTUALLY BETTER without sign stealing/decoding. Some may say that sign stealing/decoding leads to higher team BA/OBP/SLG/OPS etc. However, wins is the only stat that matters because you only benefit from cheating if you win. If you cheat and lose, the cheating did not amount to anything.
Some may say that sign stealing/decoding helped the Red Sox gain home field advantage in the 2018 postseason. That also does not matter as the Red Sox were 4-2 at home and 7-1 on the road in the 2018 postseason. The Red Sox were actually better on the road.
Yes, the Red Sox may have broken some rules in the 2018 regular season, but the numbers say it did not lead to more wins or help them win the World Series.
I am pointing this out on behalf of the Red Sox because I think they were treated unfairly by the commissioner. I think the fair thing to do would have been to investigate the whole league for sign stealing/decoding. Instead, just two teams were investigated and dragged through the mud with their fans. MLB could have easily conducted an anonymous survey of all players, coaches, video room personnel etc. using the internet to see what everyone was doing. Very easy. My workplace does this all the time and calls it climate surveys. Finally, I think it is a bad business move by the commissioner to drag one of MLB’s largest fan bases through the mud without seeing if what the Red Sox were doing was widespread throughout the league.
TheTrotsky
You and your whole post is a joke. Cheating is cheating no matter if you win or lose, don’t make excuses.
Bert17
I agree that cheating is cheating and think that the sample size of winning percentage in postseason games doesn’t matter anyway. BUT, he’s right that what was needed was a league wide investigation. not just because it would be fair, but to root it out and see what teams were doing and how to stop it.
The obvious truth is that MLB only cared about having g as little as possible get out to the public. Teams had been filing complaints about the Astros with the league and they did nothing until it was publicly reported. Manfred said it was just the Astros. Then it reported about the Sox, so he investigated the Sox. There were rumors about 8 other teams but never with a player on the record so they didn’t investigate.
It was always about containing the fallout during the year they were going into gambling. They k on that what the Red Sox were doing IS the level playing field, but what they really want is just the appearance of a level playing field.
Bert17
I agree that cheating is cheating and think that the sample size of winning percentage in postseason games doesn’t matter anyway. BUT, he’s right that what was needed was a league wide investigation. not just because it would be fair, but to root it out and see what teams were doing and how to stop it.
The obvious truth is that MLB only cared about having g as little as possible get out to the public. Teams had been filing complaints about the Astros with the league and they did nothing until it was publicly reported. Manfred said it was just the Astros. Then it reported about the Sox, so he investigated the Sox. There were rumors about 8 other teams but never with a player on the record so they didn’t investigate.
It was always about containing the fallout during the year they were going into gambling. They know that what the Red Sox were doing IS the level playing field, but what they really want is just the appearance of a level playing field.
all in the suit that you wear
Nope. Insults and nothing else is a joke. Yes, cheating is cheating. The first thing I said was the Red Sox deserve punishment.
all in the suit that you wear
Bert: I agree except….A whole postseason doesn’t matter?
kingbum
It was impossible for Watkins to cheat during the postseason per MLB’s report so yes the postseason did not matte. I think all teams are guilty of something like this, as the saying goes if you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying. Watkins got caught only because of the investigation into Cora.
Bashing Weiss
This is some stuff an Astros fan would say.
pasha2k
Oh PUULLEZE
Iknowmorebaseball
Okay I get it! Your big Red Sox fan trying to protect your team. Just remember nobody here is stupid so peddle your bologna to other Red Sox fans so you may find a believer
rightturnclyde
Viva le trash cans!
GothamNeedsMe
Wrong team.
Vizionaire
wireless buzzers!
hOsEbEeLiOn
Viva la wireless buzzers
SalaryCapMyth
@the suit that you wear
Comparing the Red Sox post season performance to their regular season doesn’t dismiss the Red Sox cheating. All you may have proven is that teams can get hot for 14 or 15 games while cheating during the regular season. Comparing a small sample size to the ENTIRE regular season is useless.
Further, you discipline the act pf cheating and not results of it. To justify the Red Sox in such a way screams of special pleading.
all in the suit that you wear
SalaryCapMyth: I did not dismiss the Red Sox cheating. They should be punished and that is the first thing I wrote. However, it is a valid question whether or not they benefited from the cheating. I don’t believe a whole postseason is insignificant. Anyone who has ever celebrated a postseason can’t possibly believe that.
SalaryCapMyth
“I don’t believe a whole postseason is insignificant. Anyone who has ever celebrated a postseason can’t possibly believe that.”
Why are you representing my argument like this? You know very well that I was calling the 2018 postseason insignificant for the purpose of comparing statistics to the regular season because it’s a small sample size. But you create a straw man instead of a refutation. Maybe because you ALSO know that you can’t use the postseason and regular season in this way.
Yes you did mention they deserved punishment, but you all BUT negated that with the last paragraph of your first response.
all in the suit that you wear
SalaryCapMyth: I am saying that it makes no sense for people to celebrate their team winning in a postseason (which everyone I know does, including me) and then turn around and say the Red Sox 2018 postseason proves nothing. Is the postseason meaningful or not? It does not change year to year. Regarding my last paragraph, I am saying that is unfair for the commissioner to investigate only two teams and not the whole league for sign stealing/decoding. They all had unmonitored video rooms in the regular season. Given that the whole league was not investigated, I think the punishment the Red Sox got is appropriate.
all in the suit that you wear
SalaryCapMyth: A better way to explain my thinking may be as follows: It is a common practice in the baseball community to believe the postseason determines who the better teams are and ultimately who the best team is. It means something. It is not a statistically valid common practice, but it is a common practice nonetheless. Not all common practices are statistically valid. It should apply to the 2018 Red Sox.
markakis
Wow, they got off even easier. Crazy.
kingken67
Because they didn’t do anything remotely similar to what Houston did.
Woods Rider
Just like the whole Apple Watch deal too, am I right?
brucenewton
No trash can banging in Boston.
just@nothermeathead
Nah they were banging each other tea bags
Bunch of losers.
Yankees will be next
mikeshaw801
Got em???
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
If it isn’t murder then it’s man slaughter. Life in prison vs. 5 years. This is a man slaughter decision.
richard dangler
The sensor ship on this app is becoming ridiculous. If you don’t follow the propaganda you’re deleted immediately.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Is a sensor ship a floating vessel that monitors things?
dugdog83
F/V Sensor – Dutch Harbor, Alaska
The Human Toilet
LMAO!!!
nymetsking
Sensor Space ship?
SalaryCapMyth
I assume you already replaced your face masks with tinfoil hats? I mean, you know the REAL threat is the satelites watching you from above, right?
partyatnapolis
that’s it?
jawinks
Seriously under-punished. All teams should cheat their way to titles now.
astros2017
Steroids
Spitballs
Scuffed balls
Sign stealing
Greenies
Teams have been cheating their way in baseball for decades
sambino
You forgot trash cans.
Woods Rider
and Apple watches
SalaryCapMyth
@ astros2017
Stop rationalizing the Astros cheating. Just stop. Your claims that other teams cheat in other ways is not a defense. If you got caught robbing a bank would your defense be that others have robbed banks, too?
Woods Rider
Good analogy. Nicely done.
Michael Birks
This is going to be a colorful comment section
Brixton
Manfred just isn’t doing good at most parts of his job.
nymetsking
but at least on those other parts he’s almost average.
Brixton
unnecessary rule changes, takes shots at Trout for lack of marketing, fails to discipline literally everyone fairly, and pretty much says tanking is perfectly fine.
nymetsking
over your hesd apparently
BlueSkyLA
His thirty bosses would beg to differ with you.
Woods Rider
*all
The guy is flat out garbage and an absolute disgrace to the sport.
tigersfan1320
Seems like a fair punishment. From what I’ve read, they didn’t cheat nearly as bad as the Astros did.
stan lee the manly
This is based on the premise that the Astros were punished enough for what they did.
I think the majority of fans would say that this is a faulty premise.
kingken67
Whether or not fans consider Houston’s punishment appropriate MLB couldn’t come down more harshly on Boston for much less of an infraction in an investigation done in the same off-season as Houston’s investigation.
CursedRangers
Fair compared to what the Astros received. But the Astros received such a minor penalty compared to what they did. Hard to believe there aren’t any lifetime bans from this. But then again ARod might soon be an owner of a MLB team, so I guess it is to be expected. One thing is for sure, MLB doesn’t care about integrity or their fans. All about the unions and the almighty dollar.
emac22
Arod was actually punished unlike everyone else who breaks the rules.
The fact that he might save the sport from Wilpon is also good.
SMH
astros2017
He was punished enough to have enough money to buy the Mets and buy up shares of companies on Shark Tank lol
Woods Rider
A-Rod messed up, no doubt about it. I don’t like the guy either, but I must admit, his admission to sterioids, what it cost him, and his heartfelt feelings on live TV during that game last year leads me to believe he might actually have remorse.
Let’s also remember that his suspension cost him from the one record he wanted most AND will most likely keep him out of the HOF for the first couple years.
4WSsince04
How does Pete Rose lifetime ban compare with Manny Ramirez or A-rod‘s suspense. Rose affected the game by lineups and pitching moves, but he was never pumped full of steroids While playing. Shouldn’t the players be punished worse. I hate Pete Rose, but as a player he should be in the Hall of Fame in my opinion, whereas I say no to Manny, A-Rod, Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, Bonds, McGwire,….
Rose, the all time hit leader never cheated while playing. Rose is a jerk, but the Hall of Fame is filled with jerks.
Woods Rider
That leads back to the great argument. Is the HOF a museum or Cathedral?
Ty Cobb was a racist and an alcoholic.
Mantle was an alcoholic
Ruth was a woman beater
Are we telling the story of the game or are we just doing a fluff piece? I don’t like the Rose ban, but I totally understand it. He broke rules he knew were in place.
Same goes for these morons. Only difference is, they make Pete look like a Saint.
If we are going to tell the story of Baseball, then we have to tell it both good and bad whether that requires an asterisks, a separate wing, or whatever.
Perhaps the HOF should buy that piece of property Rose usually sits at across the street on HOF Weekend, call it loser’s row, and that’s where they put these POS’.
MLB-what-ifs
Woods – i like your idea…. a new cheaters wing for Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, Pete Rose….., because it looks like cheaters will soon be getting in. HOF is definitely a museum and not a cathedral.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Rose downed greenies like Marshawn Lynch downed Skittles. All those guys in the 70’s & 80’s cheated with greenies.
tigersfan1320
I don’t really think the MLB could have done much more to the Astros. I honestly believe that the MLB punishes then about as harshly as they could have within the guidelines they set
acarneglia
incredibly light
walls17
I’m glad they pushed this announcement back months
ChiSoxCity
Boston, the city of cheaters.
GothamNeedsMe
Boo hoo.
hankwilliamsfan1986
what about the white sux
burtgummer1
Like Chicago is any better
hOsEbEeLiOn
Patriots have been busted multiple times but homers will say all teams cheat to justify their team cheating
Boston Celtics had Danny ainge throwing towels in the air trying to distract players during free throws.
Red Sox were busted twice now in recent memory.
burtgummer1
First off I’m not even a Redsox fan my team is in the national league but when a fan of the team that committed the biggest cheat in sports history starts talking about other teams cheating it’s pure ignorance
As far as the Pats go I’ve been a Pats fan since the early 70’s and won’t make any excuses but I will say there are 10-12 teams that have been busted more (look it up) but no one talks about them gee I wonder why
kodion
Because no one cares about cheaters who LOSE
Well, except the Black Sox …but they cheated TO lose
DirtyWater04
Excuses don’t need to be made for the Pats.
What people don’t understand about the Spygate fiasco was that they thought the filming itself was some uniquely nefarious thing being done by New England and New England alone. Wrong. Filming other teams is allowed and everyone in the league does it. The spot they had the cameras was outside of the sanctioned zone and according to some from around the league it was the kind of thing many teams would do as an open secret, but Mangini had some beef with Bill that reached a petty enough point he tattled about it and the rest is history.
Deflategate on the other hand is astonishingly stupid. I don’t understand why or how so many people had such a hard time grasping the plausibility that Brady liked his footballs to be on the softer side, and then spending hours out in the freezing rain on a frigid night in January would cause the air pressure to drop further and below what the league deems allowable. There is intentionally trying to shirk rules, and there is what that is, which is a coincidence.
There are worse and more blatant examples of cheating influencing entire NFL seasons – the Broncos circumventing the salary cap in the 90’s, decades of illegal steroid abuse in Pittsburgh, and Bountygate all come to mind.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
It’s everyone else’s fault! We do what everyone does!
Flapjax55
In Pittsburgh alone? Really? That is a hilarious take.
DirtyWater04
Never said it’s anyone else’s fault, just pointing out the rule they were caught breaking that set off “Spygate” is much less severe and more of a technicality than everyone acts like it was….
DirtyWater04
Flapjax they aren’t anymore, but it’s pretty widely accepted around the league that they were the first to start doing it in the 70’s, which you may recall were the glory days of their franchise. Of course by now everyone else is doing it too but it’s fair to wonder how much of their 70’s dominance was legitimate.
soxshortstop
Says Mr. Blacksox
burtgummer1
Exactly
Priggs89
Your best argument is literally 100 years old…
GothamNeedsMe
And?
butch779988
Can’t handle success dbag?
ChiSoxCity
Can’t win without cheating, degenerate?
dynasty in boston
You poor thing Chi. You haven’t had a thing going on since the Bulls and MJ. Maybe you could get a WNBA banner put up. Wait…what?
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
ChiSox city the whiniest man in America from the classiest trash dump on the south side of chicago!
burtgummer1
the whitesox are the biggest cheaters in sports history get a life
mike127
@ dynasty and assume——guys, leave ChiSox alone—-there are no Cubs stories today for him to get his normal work routine in today. I’m sure tomorrow when the story is published on how the Cubs have opened Wrigley Field as a food pantry for the needy and how they have opened the hotel across (Zachary) the street for medical staff to stay free of charge during the pandemic he will be back to normal. He’s just picking on the Red Sox today because his daily job appears closed for the day.
MLB-what-ifs
ChiOxcity – “Boston, the city of cheaters”. Why do you care….be glad you don’t live there.
whyhayzee
Show’s over folks, nothing to see here, just move on.
They did nothing wrong. Baseball had to do a token punishment. That is all.
Class dismissed. Have a nice day.
pinstripes17
that’s why they got punished right?
hankwilliamsfan1986
that’s true, it’s only to appease the whiney fans of other teams who never win anything.
Shachorye
What a joke of a “punishment”
taito2000
Can’t believe this wasn’t a worse punishment
DarkSide830
the Astros did what they did for longer. why would this be worse?
Dotnet22
He’s not comparing it to the Astros. L2Read.
REDSOXFAN5824
Learn to type.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Murder vs manslaughter, life vs 5 years. This was a manslaughter decision.
cptstupendous
Optics are horrible for Manfred – suspend a guy while in a postponed (highly likely canceled) season. The logic is fine, but by god the optics are friggin horrible.
emac22
The logic is weak too.
If logic in a professional sports doesnt include optics what does it include?
cptstupendous
Weak works as well.
Your logic and optics question is far too deep of a rabbit hole to fully dive into – logic and optics are not dependent upon the other.
puhl
Is anyone surprised by this. After all this is the Red Sox. This is now twice that they have gotten off easy. And the Yankees too. There are two sets of rules in the league. Those that apply to Boston and New York and those that apply to everyone else.
Boogaloo
Lol, look at you desperatly trying to drag the Yankees into this. The only thing the Spankees did was blow the whistle on Boston and Houston, take your bias elsewhere. The only thing the Spankees got in trouble for was trying to catch the red Sox cheating, wake up. You’re ajoke
pinstripes17
the yankees did nothing wrong
jdgoat
…
MLB-what-ifs
Pinstripes17 – ……probably the next team MLB says cheated then draw it out for six month to fan the flame
RobBoSoxNMariners
Cute.. speculative – but cute
brucenewton
Manfred stated he would not investigate his boyhood team. Even though Beltran was the yanks video reviewer in ‘18 and ‘19. Why would anyone hire Beltran to be the ‘video reviewer’? mmm
emac22
That was weak!
Might as well have made them give each fan a free hot dog.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
At ballpark prices for a hot dog, that might have been a more severe financial hit than the Astros took…
GothamNeedsMe
Here come the comments about how they deserved more. Even though they had next to zero knowledge about what really happened.
realgone2
and neither do you. So, you can’t say they deserved what they got or less. See how that works?
GothamNeedsMe
Did I say they deserved or didn’t deserve anything? Not if you read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to read…Francis.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Oh, Justin, why must you be so combative!
MLB-what-ifs
Gotham – you can’t blame realgone, because he has not learned to read yet…..
Jason Turpin
Is this punishment a joke?! It’s a slap in the face to all the other organizations.
REDSOXFAN5824
Ok Marlins Fan
andrewgauldin
I wanna know if Dave Dombrowski knew about the Astros shenanigans in 2017, and hired Cora so that he’d lead the way in this cheating scheme.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Red Sox still maintain their innocence in this whole matter. I wonder if there is any way to appeal the decision? I guess we need to wait until the report is released before jumping to any conclusions, but it seems like whatever they allegedly did was much less severe than what Houston was doing.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Uhhh… CEO Sam Kennedy has already stated the org is accepting the commish’s ruling. It’s in the article above. And also 65 witness interviews. What is there to appeal?
em650r
Alex cheating Cora
pasha2k
I love Cora, but I know he made some bad choices, doesn’t mean we can’t all forgive him, eh?
4WSsince04
I could not stand Alex Cora, so as a Red Sox fan that was the best thing that came out of this – – Cora’s firing. Lol
4WSsince04
He was a bad in game manager….
Old User Name
Get rid of the replay room.
pinkerton
What did everyone have for lunch today? I had Wawa
realgone2
Beef tongue tacos.
Vizionaire
manfried chicken!
nymetsking
Sounds tasty. Do they do delivery or just curbside pickup?
hOsEbEeLiOn
Quality isn’t that great. Shady business practices too.
humphrey x boegarts
Takes a few months to deliver too
4WSsince04
…few months..?….like half a year and the chicken was cold !
emt126
I knew they would get a slap. BS. Just like steroid investigation. Owners were in the committee. Cheating garbage.
realgone2
What a joke of a punishment.
30 Parks
Cora will be back as Sox manager for 2021.
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
I seriously doubt Alex Cora gets a job in Major League Baseball as a manager ever again. He’s done.
He received punishment today for what he did with the Astros in 2017. He violated rules big time. He is absolutely done.
His fate is an iPad and a cell phone and a rental car and frequent flyer miles, scouting for teams as an independent contractor.
30 Parks
Yes, I’m familiar with the situation. Cora fell on his sword, he did the right thing after getting busted – contrition and accountability (a similar forgiveness greeted steroid abusers that didn’t run from the truth). There will be a second coming for Cora, the Sox quiet handling of the matter and subsequent delay in naming Cora’s permanent replacement speak to same. This worked out well for the Sox, but Cora most of all.
emac22
BTW – When 20% of the time means whenever a runner is in scoring position it means much more than cheating 20% of the time.
It also means you made a proactive attempt to hide your cheating by only doing it when you can claim a runner saw something.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Actually, it’s the opposite of that. They had runners on 2nd base in 19.7% of all at bats and only on a FEW occasions (“small percentage”) were sign sequences changed and relayed to the runner at 2nd base. So it was much, much lower than 20% of all at bats. Here’s the exact wording:
Watkins communicated sign sequences in a manner that indicated that he had decoded them from the in-game feed in only a small percentage of those occurrences.
They didn’t use any other methods to try and communicate with a batter (like Houston did). This is really what all teams do (or did) with live people in the stands trying to decode pitch sequences for the last 50+ years.
pasha2k
Thank you Dorothy.
MLB-what-ifs
Dorothy – your recap is spot on…. runner on second and only if Watkins had decoded the signs…looks like it did not happen that often…..but the months of wait for this only made it seem bigger than it was……there is way more cheating in the NBA and that why i quit watching it……
GoAwayRod
And AMAZINGLY still not a single word about the larger implications of this sort of thing in the wide world of GAMBLING!
People all over the locker room, trainers, janitors, cup-of-coffee minor leaguers making the minimum, coaches, attendants… ALL KNOW that a team is cheating to boost their odds of winning. They can ALL place bets in real-time with odds that are tethered to in-game situations and odds.
And NOBODY uses this information to get favorable odds and make bets that they know they’ll cash in on?
Sees like a pretty bizarre notion that NOBODY got action based on this knowledge. Isn’t that RULE #1 of gambling? Find an edge?
My uncle used to hang around the horse track hours before the races, talk to trainers, watch the horses go for their walks, all sorts of stuff that the average casual bettor can’t even fathom. Why? Looking for an edge.
All these people around the Sox and Astros had HUGE insider information. And nobody cashed in? Amazing! Like a bunch of catholic saints!
HalosHeavenJJ
I hadn’t thought about this, but you are right. Fight fans go to public workouts and weigh ins. Football guys walk college campuses trying to get rumors on guys. Like your uncle, trying to get that little edge.
No doubt somebody somewhere was placing bets and making nice coin.
MLB-what-ifs
I would not be surprised if NBA officials get paid off to call a game closer for one team or another affecting outcomes. There is one form of cheating or another all the time in sports.
I have seen high school basketball coaches teach their team to foul so they will not get caught by the referees. Great education for life…that cheating is acceptable as long as you don’t get caught…… not acceptable!
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
These guys on small paychecks like Clubhouse staff etc that you mentioned are not going to gamble on their team based on inside information they received. They would never take that risk and get fired.
MLB-what-ifs
If people are stupid enough to gamble on sports when they know there is cheating and manipulation all the time then they deserve to lose money.
Easiest cheating is pay an athlete to say he is hurt and skip a game at the last minute…..,i am sure it happens.
papasmurf25
MLB is a joke
Boogaloo
Lol, look at you desperatly trying to drag the Yankees into this. The only thing the Spankees did was blow the whistle on Boston and Houston, take your bias elsewhere. The only thing the Spankees got in trouble for was trying to catch the red Sox cheating, wake up. You’re ajoke
AngelDiceClay
Back off Bugaloo
luclusciano
I am super slow. So, the only person punished is a staffer, who did what? Are they saying information was gathered and used, but nobody other then the 1 staffer used it? Wouldn’t someone have had to use the data for something? If data was collected, but it was used for nothing, then what really happened?
gwell55
Actually When the staffer used the replay data from “yesterday’s game video” that was legal to decipher. What he did wrong was use in game replay system to try to decipher signals for that game … so he could violated that rule…. however he did it twas only useful if he to players in a small amount of the time as pitchers had to have someone on base for him to decipher then later in the game tell some player what he found.. No one else was involved they found so that is the reasoning on the investigation.. The players interviewed and some noted it wasn’t very useful as pitcher and catcher change up signs frequently during a game.
jdgoat
Beisbolista weeps
HalosHeavenJJ
And again Boston gets off easy.
But I’m sure this scandal and Betts performing 3+ WAR better than usual are completely coincidental.
Brixton
They got the same punishment as the Yankees got for signing Gerrit Cole. Got it.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Cora will be back managing the Red Sox in 2021! Houston tried to pin the entire cheating scandal on him, when now we know it was devised by the front office and pushed down to Cora by management. Now that he’s off the hook in the Boston cheating scandal, the door is wide open for his return. Viva La Cora!!!!
pasha2k
I love Cora, n I think AJ threw him under the bus. I, like Dorothy, hopes Cora will be back with the RS, which I always thought when they hired the bench coat n why they knew he was safe fir the Owners to hire.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Sox are going to hire AJ Hinch! They want a man who knows how to beat up a TV screen.
MLB-what-ifs
Pasha2k – after reading all the comments here i would not rehire Cora just for the PR.
hankwilliamsfan1986
did any of you morons actually read it? the replay guy was the guilty one and it was only done in a small percentage so it had no effect on play, you still have to play the games. just more jealous fans whose teams never win anything. let’s see you react like this when your team gets investigated.
HalosHeavenJJ
Read it but with healthy skepticism. Hard to think Cora went from being an integral part of cheating in 2017 to a non-entity in 2018
jjd002
Exactly. It’s as believable as Barry Bonds being clean.
tigerdoc616
Punishment seems reasonable given what the Red Sox did was way less systematic than the Astros. Whether or not the Astros punishment was appropriate or not is no longer the issue. It set the precedent that the Red Sox were going to be judged.
ScottCFA
Mostly agree, Doc. However, this was Watkins’ second offense. While it isn’t as egregious as what the Astros did, Watkins as a recidivist probably should have been banned from baseball for at least as long as Astros’ personnel as a way of dissuading employees from going along with impermissable use of technology.
Mollysdad
MLB acknowledged the front office’s extensive efforts to communicate and enforce the rules and concluded that Alex Cora, the coaching staff, and most of the players did not engage in, nor were they aware of, any violations, banned manager Alex Cora through 2020 although apparently only due to Cora’s wrongdoings with the 2017 Astros
Brixton
Yes and MLB also concluded there were not electric buzzers when there is more than enough reasonable doubt to that statement. MLB can’t afford arguably the last 3 WS all to be considered tainted, so they could be covering.
jjd002
Maybe because there was absolutely no decent evidence that there was buzzers used by any team, at any time.
kiddhoff
No surprise here. Boston cheated again. Manfred sweeps it under the rug so he can focus on foolish rule changes. Boston came out smelling like a rose. Does anyone now take Manfred seriously?
RobBoSoxNMariners
Actually the evidence shows you are incorrect.
kiddhoff
The evidence made public shows I am incorrect, yes.
kyredsox17
You probably think COVID19 is a lie too…
dlevin11
Welcome back in 2021 Alex Cora. No harm No foul
dlevin11
So Red Sox lose a second round draft pick.
161River
What a total joke. They throw the video guy under the bus – this just stinks of corruption.
trace
I’m here for the tears.
Dotnet22
You crying?
trace
no, you?
Rumncoke
wow that’s it
Psychguy
Did I miss something or did he not identify the names of the players that took advantage of the situation? He does go out of his way to state that most players and Cora were unaware.
Brixton
Bogey went from a .746 OPS w/ RISP in ’17 vs 1.130 in ’18 lol
Steve Adams
Players were not named specifically, no. Same as with the Astros report, where only Carlos Beltran (who had since retired) was named.
In this instance, based on the manner in which illegal data was obtained — decoded in video room, conveyed to dugout, relayed to runner on second base, relayed to hitter — it’d be almost impossible to glean which specific hitters benefited when. There’s no trash can bang to make each violation readily apparent.
It’s likely that every hitter benefited to some extent at various points of the season. And while you can draw your own conclusions about whether they truly weren’t aware of the scheme, it also stands to reason that even if they did know of the scheme’s existence, they likely didn’t know on a per-at-bat basis whether they were getting real-time sign sequences from the replay room or just being signaled based on pre-game, advance scouting reports (which, again, are legal).
mike156
Steve, for your sake and ours, let’s hope baseball begins again. These endless food-fights about how MLB is dealing with one institutional issue after another, to say nothing of the debates about COVID-19, are not as fun. They just raise distrust in the business model of the game, the leadership, and the integrity of what’s happening on the field..
DarkSide830
Cora should be banned for much longer given he tainted 2 franchises
Dom2
and *2018
Dom2
MANFRED SUCKS!
lowtalker1
That’s the weakest freakin thing I’ve ever heard
Dom2
All New England teams CHEAT!
Mrtwotone
Boston signs replay, but replay had a qualifying offer attached. therefore losing 2nd round draft pick. But if replay has another 4+ war season it will all be worth it. Bold move
brucenewton
So the Red Sox relayed signs from second base when a runner was out there. If they investigated all 30 teams they’d find that. Cora got busted for letting Beltran do his thing. Yawn.
Priggs89
That’s not the illegal part… read again
ScottCFA
J.T. Watkins “vehemently denied” the accusations and promised to never do it again!
nymetsking
lol
whyhayzee
Punishment is actually more severe than the “crime” and only done so mlb doesn’t lose face. One guy went slightly rogue. Nobody really paid much attention. This is a good story.
extreme113
He did it the “Army way”.
yanks23
What a joke
DarkSide830
if im honest i think the punishment is mostly fair given what the report suggests. if Watkins made it seem like he did nothing wrong then i dont see a reason to blame anyone here but him and the owner. (given he probably should have known about this as it is his team) maybe a bit light on him but that they punished Watkins is what is most important. Cora punishment is light but i dont see him getting another gig anyway so the point is moot.
Redwood13
Why didn’t the Red Sox stand up and fire Watkins after this came out like Astros fired their manager and GM?
RobBoSoxNMariners
Ooo this one has to hurt the Red Sox haters who speculated sooo incorrectly for so long. Hahahaha
qbass187
The truth won’t stop them. They’re too invested at this point.
DarkSide830
this site is full of sharks. bleed one drop and they’ll persue you for miles.
fieldsj2
A small percentage of those occurrences? Give me a break, of course their gonna minimalize what really happened. This is basically sweeping the whole thing under the rug, and hoping it goes away! It’s ridiculous that the people who benefited the most from this are once again off scot-free! I guess the replay systems operator came up with this all by himself and probably was charging the “limited number of Red Sox players” by the pitch. Manfred must really think baseball fans are morons.
Bleedsblue81
They all lied to Manfred after they saw what happened in Houston. They found a scapegoat and lied lied lied. The reports and punishments should have been released at the same time, commissioner is a joke.
qbass187
Based on?
MLB-what-ifs
Bleeds is all knowing, a mind reader, an IQ of 200. That is why his crystal tells him special things………not
averagejoe15
What happened in Houston that would make them want to lie? The punishment that has little to no material effect on the players outside of fan taunting?
Also, further information related to these scandals is going to come out during the ongoing court cases involving both the Astros and Red Sox brought about by fans and former players. You really think that if broader org involvement in the cheating could be proven that Manfred would cover it up, only for it to come out in court documentation?
There certainly could be more here than we are led to believe but you’re grasping at straws if you think this can be tied to the (previous) front office at this point.
Bleedsblue81
Fines and draft pick forfeiture plus players admitting that they cheated is what happened. No player wants to be the next Altuve or Bregman. Come on now the video guy was not doing it for his benefit.
DarkSide830
im sure if he was able to pick up on guys signs to the point where it was helping the team he’d have more staying power.
kreckert
I’m not sure why they’re bothering to do any punishment at all.
1) The punishments they’re handing down are less than a slap on the wrist
2) Every team was doing this. Every damn one. That’s why they’re only giving slaps on the wrist to the ones stupid enough to get caught. Anyone saying otherwise is either an idiot or a liar.
3) The sport has no integrity. It hasn’t had any in decades. And you know what, who cares? Sports exist to entertain and for absolutely no other reason, so why not just admit it and be done with it. They’re not going to do one damn thing to legitimately clean it up, so if it’s going to be the wild wild west, why not just be honest about it. It won’t lessen the entertainment value at all. I won’t stop watching. No one else will either.
4WSsince04
Kreckert – you nailed it. Pitchers have been throwing spitballs, using grease, nail files…. for decades, batters cork bats, steroid use was rampant…..how many players, managers, or front office people were suspended or fined or fired for that matter?…..not even a slap on the wrist…MLB is entertainment and if people don’t want to watch the product spend your time and money elsewhere….all the complaints about who is cheating more is bs. Most of the unhappy people on this site should see a psychology….
I used to come to this site for trade news. Now it is MLB WHAT IFS.COM ……click bate for grumbling about the MLB. If you don’t like baseball the way it is, go find another sport because like you all have said it’s not changing
All you commenters can be miserable together
Javia
You seem pretty miserable yourself 4WS.
MLB-what-ifs
Javia – not at all miserable just disappointed that most of the posts on this site have become a snarky bunch of people posting trash.
I hope you enjoy Chula Vista. It is finally going to warm up next week.
qbass187
What a huge waste of time that was. That’s the same thing every team does. Lol.
VonPurpleHayes
Astros fans licking their lips waiting to drop the “all-teams-cheat” comments.
wild bill tetley
Hayes are you implying the other 28 teams don’t cheat? Trying to find the humor in your comment and can’t.
VonPurpleHayes
Not implying anything. Simply stating how excited Astros fans are to see another fanbase get abused.
Since you asked, I don’t think any team in baseball was cheating like the Astros did, including the Red Sox, but I understand that’s debatable. It’s a slippery slope and baseball has a long, scandalous history.
wild bill tetley
I agree. Cheating is rampant all over baseball. Astros and Sox took it to another level.
ChiSoxCity
From this point forward, make the damn rules clear. No cheating! If you’re caught,
1. Any playoffs wins should be forfeited. That includes championships!
2. Banned from the league for one FULL season for the first offense. Banned for life for repeat offenders.
3. The team should be fined $20M, and be stripped of all 1st and 2nd round draft picks for TWO years.
4. Lastly, anyone caught lying or attempting to cover up cheating during the league’s investigation should be banned for life! If the MLBPA won’t agree to this, let them be judged by public opinion. Then start the season with amateur players. No more rigged championships! Screw the players.
averagejoe15
Right….
1. Forfeiting playoff wins and championships is a fruitless endeavor. Retroactively saying the 2017 Astros never won the WS doesn’t impact the benefits generated from that win nor does it take away or alter fan memories of those seasons. Vacating a championship retroactively is legitimately pointless.
2. Who is getting banned from the league? An entire team? Individual players? Coaches? Front office personnel? I agree with banning the responsible party, I don’t agree with banning everyone who was involved.
3.. The max fine the commissioner can levy against a team is $5M which was determined by the owners themselves. And the Astros were in fact stripped of picks for ‘TWO’ years.
4. There is already precedent for banning individuals for life if they do not cooperate with MLB’s investigation, that’s what happened to Coppolella. That said, Manfred intentionally gave players immunity to help facilitate honest responses. Also, why ‘screw the players?’ If anyone should be held accountable for the scandals it is the people in charge. I can understand wanting player punishment, but unless the scheme is entirely player driven, there are bigger fish to fry.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Your post makes little sense.
1. Forfeiting playoff wins and championships is not a fruitless endeavor. Sure the Astros benefited financially and their fans have memories but a sanction will prevent them from benefiting of the likeness of that championship season going forward- try selling commemorative DVDs and swag now, as you’re just setting up the buyer to be clowned whenever they go out in public. And fan memories of the season going forward will take on a new meaning as is already going on. There’s Alex Bregman and Carlos Beltran, son, point and laugh.
2. Who is getting banned from the league? Worried about over penalizing? Buck Weaver and the other 7 Black Sox say hi!
3. Why the antitrust exemption should go. A commissioner should be able to go above and beyond the agreement and effectively penalize the team an amount above and beyond the $5 MM by forcing them to disgorge profits equivalent to what the team benefited from the championship. The way the RICO laws allow the feds to seize assets gained as a result of a fraudulent activity. Put the ball in the Astros court. If the team wants to be bigger Aholes and drag the league office to court, so be it.
4. “Screwing the players?” For knowingly committing a fraud on the sport? We get it, they were only following orders, like the guards at the camps.
MLB-what-ifs
Let’s give the Dodgers the 2017 World Series trophy. I am sure it will be one they will be proud to display….
luckyh
Where were the buzzers? They was no way they were doing it in the WS. I am not saying that they didn’t do anything, but not even close. No one seemed to care when Paul O’Neill said the Yanks did the same sign stealing the Sox did. Nope, different standards I guess.
normanbates
Joke
Rangers29
Jesus Christ, I feel like MLB just “jumped the shark”, (if you get the reference, you get the reference).
trace
So there was no imaginary little green men turn up in this investigation.
angelsfan4life
The Red Sox got caught twice in less than 5 years, for electronically stealing signs. And both times get a slap on the wrist.
Ricky Adams
The alex cora part is messed up. Manfred didnt see fit to suspend him after astros investigation. But after boston investigation, hes suspended for a season that at the moment looks like a 50/50 chance of even happening, for actions he took during the astros cheating??? Huh? What? WTF r u smoking manfred?
averagejoe15
This is what you’re upset about and you don’t even have the facts right….
Manfred’s action against Cora was always pending the results of the Red Sox investigation. Had Cora been found guilty of wrongdoing with the Sox his punishment would have been longer than just the 2020 season. But since he was not found guilty of any wrongdoing with the Red Sox he received only the punishment tied to his Astros involvement.
As far as the wording of that punishment, Manfred already set precedent with Hinch and Luhnow’s bans and since Cora’s punishment was solely tied to that investigation he couldn’t really alter the language of the punishment materially from what was levied against Hinch and Luhnow just because the season may now be cancelled without doing the same for both Hinch and Luhnow.
All three people also still lost their jobs. It’s not as if they are just going to come back and have a position with a team.
MLB-what-ifs
….one year isn’t enough… all the haters want blood or life imprisonments….death by hanging…it fits the crime right????
Stevil
Cora would be wise to avoid LA for a while. He managed to help deprive the city of a WS title with two different clubs.
Quite the accomplishment. At least clubs now know that a less intricate cheating scheme won’t cost them their top pick… if they get caught.
Congratulations MLB!
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Big Stevie, you didn’t read closely!
Stevil
That’s Stevil to you, and yes, I read everything. I’m just not so naive as to believe that Cora had no knowledge or involvement.
pasha2k
Steve what WS were you watching?
Blah blah blah
Brewers are next. Get ’em Manfred!
Goose
The commissioner dropped the ball on how this was all handled. He knew everyone was using electronics. He wasn’t loud and forceful when he warned everyone on the Red Sox/Yankees tit for tat Apple Watch violations. He ended up going after the Astros and this all got away from him. I don’t think the penalties will deter organizations. I do suspect it may stop due to the what happened to Cora, Hinch and Beltran. Players that are not stars or may be start and want to stay in the game after their careers may not want to risk their futures getting caught.
badco44
So this is the extent of an investigation that took this long to come out with? Pretty lame Commish… now let’s see you get off your rear and get a season started!
louman49
Manfred is a wimp Astros and Redsox nation needs more punishment than what was put on them by the wimpy commissioner ever.
qbass187
What do think your opinion of all this is worth? When taken into consideration that you aren’t capable of differentiating the facts of the cases between either team?
I’ll tell you; ZERO
Twinsfan333
You mean like every internet comment board opinion ever?
changeup
Cora cheated on two teams, spearheaded both. Worse than what Rose did in affecting outcome of games directly. Should be banned for life, period.
averagejoe15
Spearheaded both? It actually sounds as though he spearheaded neither and 1 team attempted to make him the scapegoat.
Redwood13
Scapegoat really, Beltran and Cora were the driving force, listen what the Astro players said: Brian McCann told Beltran to stop cheating and Beltran wouldn’t listen. Then on to Boston and continued cheating there. The Astros cheated true, Boston cheated comon factor was Cora.
DarkSide830
while ill accept that if he was not mentioned go have known here then that is indeed the case, he seemed quite eager to put Mr. Intern’s ideas into practice in Houston to the point where you can probably pin most of what happened there on him.
Stevil
What’s sad about this is that Cora basically got a pass for whatever he did with Boston, and his punishment for his role in the Astros’ scheme will apply to a shortened, if not non-existent, 2020 season in which he isn’t even employed for.
Way to drop the hammer.
MarlinsFanBase
Take away every championship from every team in history that cheated.
Essentially, we all start with zero championships once baseball resumes.
okiguess
I’d be more upset had sign-stealing not been around since 1870.
Poppin' Balls
Say what you will about both the Astros and Red Sox, and the penalties levied against them the past couple of seasons, but the fact remains: 2 of the last 3 world champions have been proven to operate outside the rules…
whyhayzee
I remember when the stupid Apple Watch thing came out. Like I’m supposed to believe that the catcher’s sign gets processed by someone, then communicated to someone in the dugout, then signaled to a base runner and then signaled to the batter all in the time it takes the pitcher to nod, set and throw the pitch. Sure thing, bubba.
Louiebeans
All these slaps on the wrists baseball has left a really bad taste in my mouth. I honestly cannot stand it.
brucenewton
Beltran. Investigate what he’s been doing before and after 2017. It appears he’s been the centrepiece in all of this. Until then, it’s all incomplete. Baseball needed an outside investigation into all 30 teams. Not Manfred looking into WS winners only. Manfred learned a lot working for Selig all those years.
DarkSide830
im not one to say that all teams cheat because to be honest some probably dont. but at this point i feel Manfred owes it to the average baseball fan to dispell all rumours and investigate everyone, or at the very least up monitoring of video rooms and associated offices going forward.
Redwood13
So Watkins didn’t tell any of the Red Sox players about the stolen signs, bull!! Redsox Players were involved. Cora was the driving force with this, just like in Houston. If the Red sox players weren’t involved why was Watkins singled out. Was he just the fall guy, I guess he (Watkins) talked and no one listened.
First the Apple Watch and now this cheating hold these teams accountable.
Royalrooter
Let the haters hate. 2018 was a great year for the Sox. Now everyone can go on with their lives after this exoneration. Now let’s get Logan Morrison to testify as to what the Yankees were doing. He’s already been on the record the yanks were dirty. Plus Beltran was with them too. Let’s get after commish and look into the yankee cheating.
Eatdust666
Morrison also called out the Dodgers.
MLB-what-ifs
The “cheating” was no different than the steroids….most teams were doing it to varying degrees….we need a tell all book by Jose Canseco……..not
If you like the sport watch, and if you don’t then stop watching. You are raising your blood pressure about nothing important….go take your meds
brucenewton
Manfred stated he refuses to look into his boyhood team. Tiexiera has already come out and detailed that Beltran and Arod were doing the same stuff with the yankees.
emasino69
LOL low level employee
Web
good and cora should keep his political views to himself as well.
Melchez
In other news… Epstein killed himself.
erauber
He works for the Cubs now
Yep it is
You didn’t think Boobford would penalize one of his beloved East Coast Teams do you? No way would he do that. The game is in the tank and losing fans yearly. The gutless wonder of a Commish isnt doing anything to alienate the last 1000 or so fans of the East Coast.
olmtiant
Good,glad that’s over.!!!! Now to move on to worrying about our pitching, locking up our young core, rebuilding the farm system and those damn Yankees …You know the things I use to worry about………… PRE 2004…………
sufferforsnakes
Weak, MLB……very weak. Grow a pair, Rob.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Wow, grow a pair??? Not very PC talk from you, tribe fan. That kind of disgusting hate speech isn’t cool.
chesteraarthur
I hope that’s sarcasm. What a Karen.
Yankees98
So in conclusion, always cheat. It’s 100% worth it. Every single f’ing time.
erauber
Amazing, one guy did it all by himself.
Ezpkns34
At this rate, it’s dumb for teams to not be cheating
Ezpkns34
Let that be a lesson to all the young fans following baseball. When life hands you lemons, cheat
Sabermetric Acolyte
Well it is part of the game’s history.
basquiat
If you think Rob Manfred made this decision all by himself, please review the constitution of MLB. If you think the Astros and Red Sox are the only guilty teams, time to lose your virginity. The owners don’t want a lot of digging into their dirty linen. Toss out the two most egregious offenders to get the the media off their backs and hope it all blows over.
Maurice Lock
Is this 1930s Germany? It must be because the freedom of speech isn’t allowed here.
chesteraarthur
Site is run by leftists, what do you expect?
Bartman
MLB’s message to all young baseball fans….
It’s OK to cheat. The penalty won’t be as bad as the success or money you can make.
Sarasotaosfan
So the bottom line is the Red Sox have less money to spend and their payroll has been reduced and the organization is not penalized for violating the MLB Code of Conduct.
I am certain this only invites cheating when it really matters.
A pox on MLB for doing nothing here.
baseball1010
MLB needs a new commissioner.
jdgoat
I’m glad all the liars and hypocrites have to eat their words now. Looks real good on a lot of people. Absolute clowns, especially from one particular hypocritical fan base. Good riddance.
bigwestbaseball
MANFRED IS SUCH A WEASEL!!!!! What a pathetic, horrible Commissioner, the owners must LOVE him. What a joke.
phillyballers
Should be forced to take back Mookie Betts if the season is cancelled.
zoinksscoob
Um, after MLB came down on the Astros, Crane fired Luhnow and Hinch. Why didn’t Kennedy immediately fire Watkins after the ruling was made today? Strange…
halo6219
What are the odds 1 of those players was Mookie? I believe very high as he had a career year statistically in 2018
chisoxjuan
What the fans wanted to hear & what the teams needed to hear is Manfred announcing the BoSox punishment for this crime serves as a warning. Any team caught doing what Boston did including Boston itself will be punished much more severely. Such cheating will not be tolerated in MLB.
Instead he announced to MLB if you’re rich like the BoSox you might consider risking a 2nd rd pick & some pool money to gain such an edge. A team like Oakland or Tampa Bay can’t afford to lose that kind of pool money.
This commisioner forgot his responsibility to improve the integrity of the future of MLB.
This reminds me of 7-time Jimmy Johnson & team 48 in NASCAR. That crew chief was caught cheating repeatedly & the announcers kept saying if you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying hard enough. What made it worse is that many of the fans could tell the 48 car had
a clear mechanical advantage over the rest of the field. That’s the wrong attitude to promote when you are trying to create rivalries & greater competition in the sport. It’s no wonder ratings tanked while they were winning.
Dumpster Divin Theo
So basically, Manfred is saying cheating is much more tolerable if done selectively, and will be punishable by a traffic ticket instead of serious jail time. “But they only did it like 18% of the time at most!” (Which would be sufficient to cover nearly every pivotal moment affecting a game’s outcome).
BloodySox
Good thing opinions don’t matter. Red Sox still 2018 world champs. If your team isn’t winning maybe they should start cheating.
yankfann
Bottom line, the Sox only won by cheating. Their faux title goes unrecognized by all fans not on Boston Island.
JoeW 2
information was only relevant when the Red Sox had a runner on second base (which was 19.7% of plate appearances league-wide in 2018), and Watkins communicated sign sequences in a manner that indicated that he had decoded them from the in-game feed in only a small percentage of those occurrences……….just a whiff ofsht stinks just as bad as atrd..
Backatitagain
Still the MLB can not fairly penalize a New England team. Boston skates despite much more serious infractions than the Braves committed on signing international players. Mangred is prejudiced.
SportsFan0000
Obviously, the Reds Sox team closed ranks, kept their mouths shut
lived up to “the code of silence”, after watching what happened to the Astros.
Red Sox designated 1 scapegoat to take the fall.
Cora got off way to easily, as did other coaches and players.
Red Sox should have been fined and disciplined at least as severely as the Astros.
Red Sox have a long term pattern of cheating (Apple Watches).
The just keep their mouths shut and cover it up better..
SportsFan0000
Red Sox enforced “the code of Silence.
Obviously, the Reds Sox team closed ranks, kept their mouths shut
lived up to “the code of silence”, after watching what happened to the Astros.
Red Sox designated 1 scapegoat to take the fall.
Cora got off way to easily, as did other coaches and players.
Red Sox should have been fined and disciplined at least as severely as the Astros.
Red Sox have a long term pattern of cheating (Apple Watches).
The just keep their mouths shut and cover it up better..
SMMIST9
To say that this replay guy and only a few players knew about his cheating, is one of the is one of the biggest lies of this situation. Let’s see the team hires a catcher to determine teams pitching signs using video from before and after games. He is the team’s expert at stealing signs. Then you put him as the replay guy watching live video during the game. Anyone can put 2 + 2 together and realize he was put in the live replay booth for the purpose of stealing signs. They already knew this jerk wad did in years prior calling the trainer on his Apple Watch. It amazing how the league office allows teams to play stupid when they have been caught.
Royalrooter
You sound like Alex Jones peddling your conspiracy theory with no actual investigation experience, knowledge of the situation or reading comprehension to understand what mlb found in their report.
Royalrooter
Now that the Red Sox were exonerated, no player or management suspensions and no fines it’s time to go after the Yankees. Logan Morrison said the Yankees were doing it while he was there and Beltran was with them at the time. If mlb wants to fix this team cheating thing the Yankees are next. It’s obvious what they were doing with Beltran in charge of the video. Manfred, time to go after your home town team otherwise these investigations into astros and Sox are a farce.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I didn’t think their cheating was as rampant as the Astros’ cheating, but this is it?!?! Houston got a significant penalty, though not as much as many would have liked, but this is a slap on the wrist. Manfred had the opportunity to make teams afraid to cheat; instead, the message he’s sent is, “You’ll get a penalty, but you still get to keep anything you stole…er, ‘won’.”
Royalrooter
Houston cheated not the Red Sox. The investigation report proved Sox did not cheat if you read it. Your Personal feelings are just opinions and not factual.
wordonthestreet
Manfred had that opportunity with your Astros and blew it letting them off easy.
Red Sox situation was nothing like your pathetic chesting Astros
Simple Simon
If a player positions his body between the umpire and the ball to obscure where he actually catches it, then quickly moves the glove and holds it several inches from where the ball was caught so as to confuse the umpire as to where he actually caught the ball, is this not cheating?
all in the suit that you wear
The 2018 Red Sox had a 0.292 batting average and 0.484 slugging percentage with runners on second base in the regular season. In the postseason, they had a 0.369 batting average and 0.643 slugging percentage with runners on second base.
Backatitagain
Massive coverup by the commissioner to protect his favorite team. Repeat of the light international penalties received in comparison to Braves for same behavior. Yankees get nothing for their cheating. Doesn’t pay to be a red state team.