There’s little getting around the fact that the Pirates set back their franchise by years when trading Tyler Glasnow, Austin Meadows and Shane Baz for Chris Archer prior to the 2018 trade deadline. The move had a cascading series of implications for the organization and quite likely contributed to the ousting of GM Neal Huntington, manager Clint Hurdle and pitching coach Ray Searage to varying extents. The Archer trade was bad. It cannot be undone. But is Archer a sunk cost? I’m not so certain of that.
When looking at Archer’s struggles in Pittsburgh, it’s worth noting that the Pirates asked him to dust off a two-seamer/sinker that he hadn’t thrown since 2014. The Pirates’ fascination with two-seamers was nothing new; it was a pitch they preferred all their pitchers to incorporate into their arsenals — sometimes to their detriment. Glasnow himself opened up about this when he called the Pirates “behind the times” in a revealing interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Jason Mackey — a piece that serves as a rather damning indictment on the prior regime in Pittsburgh, which was once renowned for unearthing hidden pitching value.
A quarter of the pitches Glasnow threw with the Pirates in 2017 were sinkers. He scrapped the pitch entirely with Tampa Bay. Nearly 18 percent of the pitches Gerrit Cole threw in five seasons with Pittsburgh were sinkers; he threw 13 total sinkers in 2019 with the Astros and nearly won a Cy Young Award. Glasnow also indicated that the Pirates emphasized pitching down and in rather than at the top of the strike zone; a look at Jordan Lyles’ heatmaps reveals that when deviated from that gameplan upon being traded to the Brewers he found quite a bit more success.
This isn’t to say the two-seamer-heavy approach never worked. As Mackey observed in his interview, there were indeed success stories — Francisco Liriano and J.A. Happ among them. But teams have increasingly moved away from shoehorning every pitcher on their roster into the same organizational pitching philosophy when it’s clearly not working for a certain pitcher.
To the Pirates’ credit, they eventually did allow Archer to scrap his sinker in 2019 — and the overall results still weren’t great. He posted a 4.65 ERA in 12 sinker-free starts. But looking beyond ERA, there was more reason to be optimistic. Archer posted a 5.85 ERA, a 6.07 FIP and a 4.93 xFIP while incorporating the sinker into his repertoire until mid-June of this past season. Upon ditching that pitch? He sat at 4.42/3.78/3.70 in those same measures. He also induced substantially more swings and misses and seemed to control his arsenal more effectively:
K% | BB% | First-Pitch-Strike% | K-BB% | SwStr% | Chase% | |
Archer w/ sinker | 23.9% | 11.4% | 58.1% | 12.5% | 12.3% | 29.8% |
Archer w/out sinker | 31.2% | 9.3% | 65.4% | 21.9% | 13.7% | 34.0% |
Once he scrapped the sinker, Archer walked fewer hitters, worked ahead in more counts and generally looked like a superior pitcher. Archer also saw his home-run rate plummet from 2.37 HR/9 to 1.31 HR/9 once he changed up his pitch mix — and it’s important to point out that homers were never a major problem for him prior to this past season’s juiced ball environment. Archer entered the 2019 season with a career 1.01 HR/9 mark and saw that number skyrocket to 1.88 on the year. Again, his sinker contributed; about one percent of Archer’s non-sinker offerings were hit for home runs. Five of the 203 sinkers he threw wound up going over the fence (2.5 percent).
We’re looking at a small sample, but it’s clear that Archer’s sinker was an awful pitch for him in 2019. He might not be an ace even if he goes back to a full season of four-seamers, but the non-sinker version of Archer in 2019 was a perfectly passable pitcher. And if the ball reverts to a more traditional composition and Archer’s home-run rate backs down toward his career levels, he might even look more like the pitcher the Pirates hoped they were acquiring when surrendering Glasnow, Meadows and Baz in that deal. (Alas, even if that does come to pass, it’s exceedingly difficult to imagine the scales of the deal tipping all the way back to Pittsburgh’s direction.)
The manner in which Archer is able to capitalize on what seems likely to be a four-seam-heavy approach will be critical for the fate of both Archer himself and the Pirates. Archer’s $9MM option for 2020 was something of a no-brainer given the hefty $1.75MM buyout and the fact that his contract contained a second club option. The option decision on him this winter is far less in his favor. Pittsburgh (or more likely another club) will hold an $11MM option over Archer with a much smaller $250K buyout. The 2020 option decision was a net $7.25MM call, but it’ll be a $10.75MM call next winter. That’s probably not getting picked up if he looks more like a rebound candidate than a bona fide big league starter.
Archer’s performance, of course, also has significant impact for the Pirates’ future. If he’s throwing well early in the season — whenever that may be — and looks like he’s back to his old ways (or, ideally, better than ever), Archer will become a premier trade chip. If he looks more like first-half Archer from 2019, the Bucs might simply look to dump his salary in a “take what you can get” type of deal.
Tom84
I have a hard time seeing him rebounding. Always had potential but i dont think he’ll capitalize on it.
Domingo111
Especially since he went from a top3 player development group to a bottom 5 one. Sure there is talent but if the rays can’t make it work the pirates sure won’t.
Maybe the new front office can improve that but it will take 2-3 years until all the changes run really well.
Domingo111
Especially since he went from a top3 player development group to a bottom 5 one. Sure there is talent but if the rays can’t make it work the pirates sure won’t.
Maybe the new front office can improve that but it will take 2-3 years until all the changes run really well.
Domingo111
Especially since he went from a top3 player development group to a bottom 5 one. Sure there is talent but if the rays can’t make it work the pirates sure won’t.
Maybe the new front office can improve that but it will take 2-3 years until all the changes run really well.
Domingo111
Sorry triple post, don’t know how to edit
cards04
I have the same thing sometimes. Not a big deal
partyatnapolis
never be more than a 4.50+ era pitcher
oldmansteve
He was a sub 4 ERA pitcher like 4 years ago…
partyatnapolis
true but moving forward i mean… those sub 4 days are long gone
Jason Huff
Seems like every off season he is a bounce back candidate but never seems to bounce back
ldoggnation
He’s a bounce back candidate all right. He bounces like a dead cat. He just doesn’t have his head in the game.
walfu
Kind of sad. Guy talked a lot of trash while in Tampa. Maybe he should have made sure he was the real thing before talking trash…
kc38
He’s a complete mental case, his head is more in politics than baseball and I believe he acts so confident because secretly he has no confidence
DarkSide830
man what the heck happened to this guy
walls17
Sinkers
Goku the Knowledgable One
Mental lapses. He gets on a roll and then loses focus .
At which point when it rains, it pours.
Has a lot of talent tho..definitely should be at least a better season for him
thunderbolt
Rebound to what exactly? He was never good. Chaim Bloom made his name on that PIT trade. Archer is MAYBE a #4 on a WS winning team. Nothing special, always panics when he gets tagged for a homer, too twitchy and energetic on the mound. A healthy Montgomery on the Yankees is better than him by miles. All of the stat geeks loved this guy 4 years ago and said he just “needed time.” LOL
Steve Adams
Posting a combined 3.59 ERA in 938 innings over a half decade in the AL East — much of it when the Orioles and Jays were actually trying and had stacked lineups — isn’t good?
PiratesFan1981
You can’t compare past stats to the current stats. His ERA was still up at 4.50 after losing the sinker. The best of Archer was probably those years in TB. I could see him improving going into the future, but not at the top of the rotation as he was in TB. I believe those days are long gone for Archer.
oldmansteve
Comparing past stats to current stats is the entire point of a rebound. That’s the entire point of the article. But you then compare past stats to current stats when you say he wont get back to where he was. That’s a comparison. I don’t think you know what words mean.
Goku the Knowledgable One
LULW
baseball_fan_usa
I believe the league caught up to him. The Rays were always hyping him up like he was the next Cy young when he was in decline which led them fleecing PIT. PIT will try to flaunt his TOR potential to fleece another team but teams will not buy that narrative anymore.
kc38
Confused how Bloom made his name on this trade when Bloom wasn’t the man in charge?
2012orioles
I think he’s become so “overrated” that he’s underrated now. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see him being one of the top targets this trade deadline, whenever that is
Ejemp2006
The real bounce back candidates are the old but awesome arms that needed a couple more weeks of rehab before starting this season.
Those old but awesome arms that have nearly perfect PT rituals might really surprise us.
Also, with this mortuary on travel and contact, it might be the perfect time to sneak in a cycle of PEDs and then a massive cleanse.
lowtalker1
Won’t happen
HalosHeavenJJ
Will be interesting to see if during a condensed season the trade deadline is moved up. A new acquisition could be in both fewer games and a higher percentage of games, which changes value.
Skraxx
I honestly think he can rebound, with the whole moving away from the sinker concept. He won’t ever be an ace again, but if he just trusts his stuff to work, he can be a solid #3 pitcher, maybe even #2.
kc38
He was never an ace, that’s the problem
oldmansteve
Steve: Writes article with a data driven hypothesis
Commenters: But muh FEEEEELS tell me he isn’t good anymore.
Kayrall
So much this.
YankeesBleacherCreature
A career 3.86 ERA/3.54 xFIP and 9.8 K/9 IP in 1200+ IP. I wonder how much any GM would pay for that type of performance. His xFIP (4.36) last year was the first time it exceeded 4. He’s been underrated and underpaid IMO.
Goku the Knowledgable One
His ERA was bloated by how many runs hed give up at once.
If he avoids unraveling, this season his ERA will look more like his xFIP
Ejemp2006
Still better than Matt Boyd. Past, present, and future.
OilCanLloyd
He could be a come back player. But not sure it would happen for him in Pittsburgh. Put him in a big exciting market. Dare I say the Yankees. But the Yanks would wreck it by suggesting, Frazier should do it.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Pirates will be bad but not painful.
Their lineup is good enough to keep them in games.
Their pitching will park them bottom 3 in the standings.
Relying on Archer, Musgrove and Keller sounds more like a #3-5 than Ace-3
drasco036
The sinker is a bad pitch against launch angle hitters because the ball literally breaks into the hitters swing path.
“Fans” think that all the sudden a player turns bad, that is rarely the case. The league adjusts.
When the cutter was all the rage, right handed hitters adjusted and became pull happy, open stance, clear the hips, hitting instructors thought they were geniuses.
Then pitchers started throwing sinkers and sliders, all the sudden launch angle became all the rage, hitting coaches again thought they were geniuses.
Now it’s four seam fastballs up, curves or change ups in the dirt (pitching over launch angle), hitters are adjusting and home runs are spiking. Pitchers are bitching about the “live ball” but truth is, growing up in the 80’s and early 90’s everyone knew, pitches up went over the wall.
The simple truth is baseball isn’t about launch angle or opening the hips or anything else, it’s about physics. A slider outside naturally wants to go to the opposite field. If you try to pull it, it will be a lazy fly ball even if you barrel it up. A cutter naturally wants to be pulled, so if you open your hips, you create an ideal swing for a cutter. A sinker naturally breaks down, so if you have an uppercut swing, your bat path is on target.
Baseball is a copy cat league now with advanced analytics but it’s only giving part of the information. Good front offices’s look for trends, and figure out ways to beat the league. Once they do, the league will start copying and quality front offices’s again, look at those trends and try to figure out how to beat the league.
Just_a_thought
*Commences slow clap*
hiflew
He has always looked better in metrics than on the field or on the stat sheet. He reminds a lot of Jose Quintana. They both were supposed to be aces according to metrics, but their stats never turned out more than a #3 or #4 starter.
Lovinmlb
archer will improve, doubt he ever bounces back to what he was at his best. Get traded for high upside prospects. Trade is overrated though for Pittsburgh. It made Tampa a contender for sure, but set Pittsburgh back years? Not at all, actually gave them a chance to actually contend sooner. Meadows had a few good weeks in the bigs then regressed big time. Never shown any above average power in minors. Tampa unlocked his potential. But even if he became this elite hitter in Pittsburgh so what? They still had no pitching in their system. Baz was years away and was he going to be the 1st pitcher NH drafted and developed? They gave up on Glasnow as a starter. the trade was awful, why would you trade your recently drafted 1st round pick for Archer? Still this trade got a management team that was no longer effective removed. it set the team forward.
stko
i think you’d have a better chance of seeing Pete Rose put in the hall of fame than a rebound for Archer
wordonthestreet
Archer has stunk for years so I suppose any improvement would be some sort of rebound.