Public court proceedings have opened a knothole for peering into the state of the MLB investigation into the Red Sox regarding illicit electronic sign stealing. The Athletic’s Daniel Kaplan reported on the most recent developments (subscription link).
It was once anticipated that we’d see some resolution this spring. While reports have indicated that the Boston organization wasn’t terribly worried about significant blowback — at least, in comparison to the fury that met the Astros — it was entirely unclear just what commissioner Rob Manfred would discover and do about allegations that the Red Sox wrongly utilized video for sign-stealing in 2018.
This subject has quite rightly faded to the background as a global crisis unfolds. But it’s a big deal in regular baseball terms. And now it seems there could be more at stake than had previously been let on.
We owe our window of insight to a lawsuit filed by daily fantasy players. Today the court held oral arguments on the team’s motion to dismiss. Based upon the questions posed by the judge, it’s rather clear that Manfred has reached a finding of some wrongdoing — even if the public isn’t yet aware of the specifics.
Just what Manfred found and what punishment he has or will mete out isn’t quite clear. The team’s lawyer did acknowledge that the Sox accept some of the underlying factual findings, but left ambiguous what they actually are. “Certainly, we did find on certain occasions in 2017, that this electronic device was used to communicate sign information.”
The Sox’ attorney also made clear the team doesn’t agree (at least in the litigation context) with Manfred’s broader determinations. In particular, the attorney argued, the team is “entitled to disagree that that activity happened at the club level.” That statement certainly could be read to imply that Manfred identified participation in illicit activities that went beyond uniformed personnel.
It’s rather frustrating to see such long-running uncertainty. But the evolution of the Astros scandal surely played a role in the slow unfolding of the Red Sox case. And the league is understandably focused on much more pressing matters at the moment. Today’s drip of information doesn’t tell us a whole lot, but does increase the intrigue.
I think I just heard thousands of people go “oohhhh”.
Manfred needs to punish himself for being incompetent.
and once again it comes down to betting. dont bet kids.
You can bet on it…
12 step program for gamblers? Bet I could do it in 8.
… so *that’s* why they traded Mookie BETts!
Like the kids say. Bet.
Kids were saying that in the early 90’s…..now its equally stupid terms like “woke” and “lit”
You make sure those kids stay off your lawn! *eyeroll*
Don’t forget social distancing and flatten the curve…. oh wait, that’s all the dumb adults using those new cool terms every chance they get.
“Down to a club level” to mean seems to imply what executives knew about it vs just players/coaches actively involved
But we’ll see
Appears that their championship is every bit as tainted as Houston’s. Wonder how this will affect the contract for Mooke Betts.
I doubt very much. Betts is a great player with or without the extra help. Obviously 2018 was a step above his usual production but not by enough that he won’t get paid. Plus his defense and speed weren’t aided by the sign stealing. I think this ends up looking poorly on the organization as a whole more than the individual players. I guess the ones that spoke about their innocence will look a little silly if all this is true.
Otherwise the rest of us need to buckle up for the incoming Boston fans here to defend why the title isn’t tainted and it doesn’t matter because other teams did steroids or some other argument that makes equally little sense…
Boston can fans rejoice that they traded Mookie Betts for 2 future assets in a lost season. They win already.
It is the sick truth about this crisis and this season. The Mookie trade looks much better for the Red Sox and worse for the Dodgers if a half season is played and some agreement about service time is reached where Mookie remains a FA at the end of the season.
And don’t forget players get paid their entire contract, whether they play 162 games or 0.
Dodgers will have in affect paid Red Sox $27M to take Prospects and controllable players for 0 games played by Betts.
It won’t affect Mookie at all. That is of course if he puts up pretty good. numbers. I need to read this again but didn’t say a whole lot. Also t HD e WS win was because LA didn’t hit, not cuz the RS over hit. Just another nail in the 2920 RS coffin.
I’m going to remember that when I place my bets on the 2920 season.
You think they will have computerized umpires by 2920? I will probably have to watch it from the nursing home since I will be over 900 years old by then.
Yoda
Pirates still won’t have made the playoffs
Well maybe the red sox also would have hit poorly like LA but cheating helped them or maybe without it they never would have made it in the first place. I’m not really willing to debate what they did and how much it helps before the investigation findings drop and we hear more details but I don’t think it makes sense to argue that they didn’t benefit because they won the World series on the strength of pitching
And……. if cheating didn’t help, why take the risk? Obviously the players believed it helped or they would’ve said “this is stupid. We are cheating and it’s not even helping”.
The Athletic article that accused the Red Sox of illegally using the video room said it was impossible to illegally use the video room in the 2018 postseason season because MLB put a monitor in every team’s video room. If the commissioner ever releases the report, we will see what happened. The Astros were found to have illegally used the video room in the 2017 regular season and postseason. So, Dodgers fans are right have a beef with the Astros, but not the Red Sox so far.
Dam how do you know that in 2920 they will be a nail in the RedSox coffin? Are you some kind of psychic or some crap? This guy is a beast, I will make sure to pass this message down (don’t bet on the 2920 season)through my kids kids and them through theirs and so on.
Can confirm, have seen lines for the 2920 season thus far… I’m hearing the Orioles rebuild should be just about over by then, so might be worth some Schillings
Nostra-pasha2k-Domas
Has spoken.
What are you talking about? There has been ZERO evidence to support that!
and the dodgers get screwed again
Didn’t do half what the old yanks did. But they won so Manfred wanted to investigate. Beltran straight up said the Astros were behind the times in sign stealing. After spending 3 years with the yanks. mmm. Manfred stated he will refuse to investigate the team in the city he and his family live. I love baseball but it’s severely corrupt.
Manfred did grow up a Yankees fan in upstate New York. I’m not convinced he favors the Yankees, but the light suspensions of the Yankees after the brawl with the Tigers in 2017 made me wonder.
Lol you’re delusional.
What was the other half of what the old Yankees did? And how is that relevant to the Sox for cheating with electronics?
The Athletic article that accused the Red Sox of illegally using the video room based on anonymous sources also cited anonymous sources saying the Yankees were doing similar things as far back as 2015. The Red Sox were investigated and the Yankees were not. That may be what some people are bothered by….or they are just nuts. I think MLB should have done an anonymous survey of the whole league to see what was going on throughout the league. That would have been the fair thing to do. A survey could easily have been done using the internet. My work does that a lot and calls it climate surveys.
after the Mitchell Report blowback, why would the players expose themselves as they did back then by copping to sign stealing? So names can be leaked or worse fabricated?
Fine and suspend players. They are the ones who benefited from everything, just like in Houston. No excuse for players getting a pass and higher ups, some of who may not even have been aware take the fall.
Ban the Beltran’s and possibly Cora’s for life. Hit the guys who propagated these things hard and make sure it affects the livelihood of guilty players and coaches, rather than the employer.
Yeah, I agree
The entire franchise benefitted. In Houston, upper management first recommended the trash can scheme. Let’s see what the investigation says about the Red Sox before passing judgment.
“Fine and suspend players.”
Manfred has explained that, under the terms of the current CBA, there is no way for MLB to make such an action stick. The players would win their grievances.
“…make sure it affects the livelihood of guilty players and coaches, rather than the employer.”
Right, because ownership didn’t benefit at all. /s/ You never stop licking the boots of the superwealthy, do you?
With all this corona stuff going on, I had completely forgotten about the Red Sox scandal. This sure has drug on for a while. Hopefully a decision comes soon. I think we could all use something else to talk about.
Cheating Boston is as redundant as Crooked Politician.
This is the home of Papi, Manny, and the Cheatriots after all.
lhaha.. try skankees and cheater arod and his crew of idiots and clemens and his thrives of the series.. and the league did NOTHING … BY FAR SHAME ON SJANKEES FOR EVEN MENTIONING THE MOST SACRED RED SOX NAMES…. U SHOULD GO TO PERGAtORY for 1000 years
From reading a different article, it looks like the Red Sox disagree with the commissioner’s findings. Maybe that is why the findings are not being released yet. The commissioner may not want to release the report only to have it disputed by the Red Sox. I’m just speculating.
seems very reasonable
Red Sox are cheaters just like Houston, Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc. They all lie and they’re a bunch of scum bags. They ruined careers of many in order to advance themselves.
Article: Red Sox Cheating
Fans: And look at those Yankees, they hired Beltran who certainly came right in and conducted a full ownership briefing on how he cheated with the Astros. And Arod cheated in 2000.
Please, just accept the article for pointing out there is a lawsuit for the Sox cheating. Stop blaming teams that didn’t cheat for cheating.
And the “Manfred’s a Yankee fan” is most hilarious. You think every other non-owner, player, and team would just sit on hard evidence because Manfred’s a fan? Hell, Manfred walks into the office, reads the articles and yells, “who’s in charge of this goat rodeo?!”
I for one refuse to defend, or indict, the organization without hearing what mlb found, or thinks it found, was happening and what the exact evidence was that is supposed to show it occurring.
Rumors being rumors though, it sounds a lot less cut and dried than Houston if there is push back from the club
I agree with what you’re saying. It’s a perfectly valid point. But for others to blame teams not even involved is a bit irrational, when those same people try to make the point you just made.
true but if they did use ‘electronic devices’ to steal signs, that as a rule, us the same as the Astros. A big penalty needs to be handed out.
The astros used real time relays to try to defeat pitchers pitch by pitch, as it happened during the game.
Thus far the red sox stand accused (as i understand it) of using video room to decode signs for base runners to know later in the game.
Reportedly, with boston observation of real time signs occurred from base runners at 2b which every team in baseball does.
The difference is having had advance knowledge (which may have been outdated by that time by sign changes) from earlier in game video room of what signs they might see – which was a process used by multiple teams cited by the athletic story that have not been investigated.
Not the same as Houston did. Sounds like you do not understand what Houston did that other teams dont, and you don’t understand the problem with what boston stood accused of.
I’ll sit back and watch. Nothing else we can do but enjoy!
Fantasy players are suing?
Why?
Because lawyers like contingency fees but like class action awards at $500+/hr even better.
Because a class action plaintiff that lost $50 can recover tens of thousands for being a “class plaintiff.”
Because people su€k
try skankee clemons and his crew of thieved…
sue … for fantasy money. ..it’s gambling.. should be illegal to bet on games or u just lose your rent monies
Anyone who doesn’t believe Big Papi was doing steroids is delusional
LIAR!!! Ask Sammy Sosa. He knows about taking a mediocre to good career and turning it to a higher level, without cheating.
I guess the league must be delusional then, you know, given that they never suspended or punished him in any way.
I thought the question was centered around A-ROD and ANDY Pettite, Jason Giambi, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera and more.
Sheffield, Knobloch and countless other yankee players…the only thing worse than cheating as to act like you aren’t doing the same damn thing….put MLB staffers in the video room during the regular season as well as post season…..problem solved
try skankee clemons and his crew of thieved
This doesn’t tell us much of anything. It’s a speculation tease. If anyone thinks the sign stealing started and stopped with Houston and Boston they are extremely naive. It’s obvious based on comments from other players that the electronic sign stealing was happening with at least a hand full of teams if not more. Good to see it getting cleaned up but Boston and whoever might have been next in this investigation is getting a huge break from this unfortunate Coronavirus epidemic.
To make such a comment you are either a fan of Houston or Boston. When the Apple Watch scandal broke they investigated every team which is why Houston got that memo to stop immediately. Houston chose to ignore it while others did stop what they were doing and if you don’t think so then you are the one who is naïve.
Not obvious but thanks for commenting.
I find it ridiculous that a team from the Boston area cheated. Everyone is jealous of Boston, and so there is a faction always looking to besmirch the good name of honest, hardworking, just plain better than yours, teams. A world of sore losers!!! Manfred will bow to the pressure of everyone else, and lay the hammer down on the Red Sox, but don’t fret, as Red Sox Nation is stronger than MLB.
I needed that laugh! Really did. Thanks for the chuckle
Good one.
Yeah the old Boston conspiracy. Is everyone a Houston hater too? I really can’t even think of another RS cheating scandal. The Pats on the other hand just have a history of bending/breaking rules
So they did not cheat? It is just people are jealous of Boston? Well if you say so I guess MLB should just close the investigation?
I get there are more pressing matters right now. But if the league is done with its investigation then it should announce that and the associated penalties.
Exactly
In a twisted way, the spotlight on the coronavirus is the best thing that’s happened for the Astros and Red Sox. .
You never need the word “that” twice back to back, using it once gets the same meaning across.
So, both Houston and Boston were cheating….I wonder how many other teams, who are showing righteous indignation now, were also cheating…?
I can think of 1
Perhaps Clayton Kershaw, Darvish, Jensen, and the rest of Dodger pitching was better and would’ve won those World Series……..
Maybe Kershaw & Jensen, but I disagree about Darvish. As a Rangers fan, the Blue Jays lit him up in the 2016 playoffs, unless that is the Jays were also sign stealing in 2016?
White Sox accused the Jays of signal stealing around 2014 or 2015. I also think they were accused in 2011.
But 2016 that game you mention was in Texas, and some of those hits should have been plays made by the Rangers D. They let Darvish down hard that day.
Very true, but Darvish had flashes of excellence, but just never really pitched consistently.
That’s a fair assessment.
Also, the one positive that came out of the playoff game for me, I caught a foul ball off the bat of Mitch Moreland. (A player the Rangers should have never let get away.)
He’s a great role player, I was ecstatic when they re-signed are
Just release the damn report and get it over with. MLB is so paranoid due to the public pushback over the Astros scandal that they may actually try to be even harsher on Boston if they really found something malicious. Just publish the report and then ‘educated’ debates can happen.
Also, FU COVID-19!
Time for honestly. Whats to lose?