Phillies right-hander Zack Wheeler and the Mets are engaged in a public feud. Wheeler, a Met from 2013-19, joined the Phillies on a five-year, $118MM contract during the offseason. However, Wheeler indicated Thursday that he had hoped to remain with his longtime team, revealing (via Greg Joyce of the New York Post) that he reached out to the Mets to gauge their interest in re-signing him before he became a Phillie. But Wheeler said he only heard “crickets” from the Mets, adding: “Because it’s them. It’s how they roll.”
Wheeler went on to suggest the Mets are a dysfunctional organization, but general manager Brodie Van Wagenen took exception to his comments. Van Wagenen expressed “surprise” in regards to Wheeler’s statements, per Tim Britton of The Athletic. The GM also noted, “I feel like this organization supported him in giving him the opportunity to reach major league success.” He then took a shoot at Wheeler, contending, “Our health and performance department, our coaches, all contributed and helped him parlay two good half-seasons over the last five years into $118MM.”
It should be pointed out that Wheeler has produced palatable results in every season but 2017 – his first year back from a March 2015 Tommy John procedure that helped cost him two campaigns. He has otherwise totaled three seasons with at least 180 innings and ERAs somewhere in the threes. The hard-throwing Wheeler was statistically one of the most effective starters in baseball from 2018-19, during which he put up a 3.65 ERA/3.37 FIP ERA with 8.91 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 in 377 2/3 frames. Considering that, Van Wagenen’s snipe doesn’t ring true.
Neither side may look great in this situation, but the spat does make a division rivalry even more interesting. Both teams are looking up at the Braves and the Nationals in the NL East, though all four are arguably good enough on paper to at least compete for the division. Wheeler was the Phillies’ big-ticket acquisition during the winter, while the Mets still boast a strong rotation even in the wake of his departure. Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard and Marcus Stroman and Steven Matz lead the group, and the Mets have added Rick Porcello and Michael Wacha since free agency opened.
Might be the smartest move the Mets have made in the past decade.
Wouldn’t 2 good half seasons be a swipe at the health and the performance depts? This is a like watching a Jerry Springer fight!
Porcello will our produce Wheeler over the next three years. Mets finally look a little smarter.
I’ll take that bet.
Lol. Porcello may not even make the rotation. He definitely won’t outperform Wheeler.
Porcello in Italian is “dinger”
Agreed. The money spent on Wheeler could be used down the road towards an extension for Alonso or McNeil.
Wheeler is an imbecile If he could not understand that the Wilpon’s are bankrupt, and had no money left to sign him What a dumb fu_k..
If Wilbon is bankrupt then he should fold the team
Are you that uniformed? Coupon is about to sell the Mets for close to $3 Billion with a B.
Rae you must be a fool to think they are bamkrupt
I definitely think BVW throwing a chair at then-manager Mickey Callaway would count as dysfunctional. Don’t know why he’s so shocked.
He’s good. But Mets fans acted like he’s an ace. He has yet to Show he can throw 200 innings or an ERA below 3
95% of starting pitchers cant do that
Gerrit Cole has a career 3.22 ERA and Verlander has a career 3.33 ERA, Scherzer 3.20, Strasburg 3.17.
I think your standards are a little high, Dixon.
ERA below 3? This isn’t The MLB Show we’re talking about here…
Kershaw and his 2.44 career ERA say hello.
Yeah, and he’s the best pitcher of the last 15 years at the least.
Owned em
His 4.32 postseason ERA says hello too!
Clayton…. Kershaw? He’s getting paid $31M/year with a bad back and hasn’t surpassed 200 IP in almost five years. He *was* elite but that contract isn’t aging well at all.
You missed the point d-rock. No one said it hasn’t happened. It’s just not common for a pitcher to have a sub 3 ERA, as evidenced by the ace level pitchers I listed above over 3. Let me know if you need something else explained.
I firmly believe BVW was making in-game decisions last year. I think that will continue this year. It’s why the Mets never really went after Girardi. BVW is a mess, but it doesn’t matter, the Mets are stacked and likely will be great despite Brodie’s antics.
As for Wheeler, I think he is a bit underrated. I think he is better than Syndergaard and with proper coaching could be an ace. He is certainly leagues above the pitchers the Phillies were relying on last year (outside of Nola). I just don’t think the Mets needed him once they got Stroman.
Well, you’re correct about this. The Phillies rotation in 2019 was “Nola and who?”
@rawbar — and the Mets actually improved them by 1.50 ER/9 by giving them Vargas AND his 2019 salary just to get out from under his 2m option for 2020.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. A division and wc rival, with terrible pitching at the back end of the rotation, and the fricking Mets GAVE them a guy who, mediocre as he was at the time, was about a run and a half better than what the Phillies had at that point.
How do you not fire Van Wagenen? It was beyond absurd.
Syndergaard has already had two seasons in his career better than anything wheeler ever put together, so I disagree that wheeler is better.
They both certainly have their flaws, but Noah at his best is better than Zack at his.
Noah has steadily declined. Wheeler has shown signs of improvement. They are both similar, but trending in different directions IMO.
You must be a pitching staved Philly fan to think he is better than Syndergaard good luck staying ahead of the Marlins
The Mets will miss Wheeler this season. Especially when he pitches against them
Look up last years numbers. Syndergaard is solid, but extremely overrated. I understand the same argument can be made with Wheeler, but I think Wheeler’s impressive halves in the last two seasons show a lot of potential whereas I think we’ve been seeing the real Syndergaard.
All that being said it’s still much easier to pitch in Citifield than Citizen’s Bank, so we’ll see who has the better 2020.
Mets are a pretty crappy org but at least they were right in not paying him when he could barely stay healthy for half his career.
4-1/2 full seasons. He was out 2 years with TJ. You need to check your “facts” 45
Overpaying Wheeler will haunt the Phillies
Stupid Money
I don’t think it will. They desperately needed pitching and they had to pay for it since they couldn’t develop any talent in the minors. It’s not even a move for thiz year. With Spencer Howard coming up and 2021 having a strong pitching FA class, the Phils have an opportunity to splurge on pitching then. Phils could have a real strong rotation with Nola, Wheeler, some free agents and Howard.
They got AJ Burnett 2.0, good pitcher when on but takes 115 pitches for 5 plus innings
Wheeler is able to maintain much better velocity and he has shown signs of improvement over the last two seasons. Phillies are paying for what they believe Wheeler will come, not what he was. I think he’ll be a solid number 2.
Its a big gamble contract. If he stays healthy and can perform he earns it but he is 1 injury away from being a big bust. 1 missed year and the contract is a bust. The talent is there but the injury history makes it a very big gamble on making it through 5 years injury free.
@johnnydubz wheeler threw 16.20 pitches per inning last year. DeGrom threw 16.16.
Emphasis on the word desperate.
100 million isn’t anything in 2020
He’s overpaid and yet he still didn’t go after the highest offer
Wheeler and Syndergaard are both very overrated. To this point in their careers, they have both shown that they are both #3 starters at best.
I agree that wheeler was overrated by Mets fans. But he is definitely a number 2 starter when healthy. Noah Syndergaard has shown he can be an ace. He just has to put a healthy season together.
It’s been a long time since Syndergaard looked like an ace, and Wheeler was better than him last season IMO.
No. Wheeler was better than him at the end of last season. For most of the season, Noah was better
2019 season totals, I’ll take Wheeler.
If you have to say, “when healthy”, that takes away from where they rank in a rotation. Reliability is part of it.
CAA, definitely true. To be an Ace, the number one requirement is you have to be able to take the ball every 5 days.
If you cannot do that, you’re not an Ace.
Every player that puts on a Phillies uniform all of a sudden they turn into a dougebag.
Harper and Segura, both labeled “problem players” with their previous teams, not a single incident between them last year. Nola, Cutch, Realmuto…what the hell are you talking about?
And each of the players he is insinuating put up good years
Not a huge surprise. He is really overrated.
How quickly does he go on the injured list this year? Bets?
Stupid entitled people get to spring training and start running their mouths. Just play the game and stop turning baseball into the Jerry Springer show. Fans pay your salaries and we don’t care about your Human Resources complaints.
One thing that often gets lost in the shuffle is that these guys are asked direct questions about this. Sure Wheeler could have ignored the question, but he answered honestly. No big deal really.
WOW… another one of those guys who think “fans pay athletes salaries”. You’re right, it has nothing to do with the billion dollar tv contracts, naming rights, etc. Do fans have a “part” in the revenue? Yes. But, don’t give pat yourself on the back and give yourself too much credit, spanky.
Um… fans do pay their salaries. Do you think TV rights are from stations wanting to broadcast games to nobody? Who owns televisions and watches the games? Oh yeah, fans. Companies want to have naming rights as a marketing tool. To who will they market? Oh right, the fans. No fans, no money from anywhere.
But can it be both? You’re clearly someone who has a problem thinking outside of your false dichotomy, either/or paradigm. I never said fans directly pay all their salary. However, you still can’t see the irony in your comment—Ads, TV, apparel, etc all goes to fan interest.
Ha! Spanky! Good one!
Sounds like Wheeler was disappointed the Mets didn’t try to re-sign him.
It’s understandable, and OK for him to express the disappointment. However, I’m not sure that their disinterest in bringing him back (if they really weren’t interested) really means the Mets FO is dysfunctional.
Well…. there are plenty of other examples that would lead to people thinking that the FO is dysfunctional. google.com might help you understand a little better
Ha! google.com! Good one!
I don’t think Wheeler is wrong. The Wilpons breed dysfunction in that organization. Seems like Wheeler is disappointed NYM didn’t even attempt to bring him back. Maybe he should be thanking them.
When you wish upon a star.
Though entertaining, BVW is one of the worst GM’s in baseball. One of his first moves, the Cano/Diaz trade, was a disaster and will handicap the Mets financially for years to come. Apparently he is also a little thin skinned.
I think it’s too early to judge all of BVW’s moves, but he certainly likes to talk and get himself into trouble with his mouth. I can’t think of any other GM in baseball who would have been petty enough to insult a former player over something like this.
And if cano returns close to his 2017/2018 level and if Diaz returns to what most people expect him to be and the prospects end up being nothing big? What then? Did we forget about bringing alonso up early or trading for davis, or extending Degrom for what now looks to be a complete theft. What about that? Can’t jump to quickly on things and can’t forget about other things just to back your one sided argument and opinion.
As a Mets fan I don’t like BVW, but he’s right about the 2nd half. Career he has a .426 winning%, 4.29 ERA, and whip above 1.3 in 76 1st half games. 2nd half, .686 winning %’ 2.90 ERA and whip just above 1.1. $118 M is great money for an inconsistent mid rotation arm. Hardly an ace, making premium money. Not worth that money.
Winning percentage, now there’s a statistic that is virtually useless. It’s about as antiquated as fielding percentage. Advanced metrics from the 19th century!
The Mets are going to be a train wreck at least until they fire that GM
$118M for Zack Wheeler? No thank you. He is a nice middle of the rotation guy. Not saying the guy is terrible. In this case it’s a simple value proposition. He is worth more to the Fillies than he is to the Mets. Not sure why this is even a topic. Letting a guy go when the other team values and needs a guy more happens all the time. Good move for both teams.
Exactly. You can’t simply judge a player’s contract by itself. The Phillies need Wheeler much more than the Mets do. I think Wheeler is solid and the Mets rotation is worse without him, but it’s still one of the stronger rotations in baseball. The Mets do not need Wheeler, but this doesn’t make the Phillies contract bad.
He’s definitely worth the money IF he can stay healthy.
Wish he would of came to Sox instead of Kuechel
Completely out of bounds for a GM to respond like that to the media. Although he isn’t wrong, there’s no benefit to taking a dig like that at a former player. If anything I’m asking why the “health and performance” people
couldn’t keep him on the field longer.
All he had to say was “We were surprised about those comments. We’ve appreciate what Zach’s done for us during his time here. Obviously both parties wish we could’ve seen him on the field more often, but it is what it is. We wish him luck and look forward to competing against him in 2020.”
Personally, $118 million for Wheeler is far too high in both money and risk/reward probability for my liking. Brodie’s comments make me hope Wheeler stays healthy and lives up to the billing in Philly.
what everybody here is also leaving out is Wheeler gives up a ton of homers and he’s going to a bandbox in Philadelphia. Lot’s of luck Phillie fans.
I disagree. Brodie can be very stupid sometimes, but it’s refreshing to have people who aren’t going to come up with robotic answers like you typed out. The guy left to go to the biggest rival the team has. It would be fantastic if it helps ignite something, even remotely small, between the two teams again.
Wheeler was a great pitcher when he found his command. He can easily be a number 2, and I hope he does pitch well for the rest of his career. He just wasn’t worth a 5 year risk and I don’t blame BVW for not even attempting something.
It’s definitely more entertaining (which is what the sport industry is). All I was saying is it it’s not the place for a sitting head of baseball operations to “clap back” at a former employee’s shot through the media. If it was, say, Alonso or deGrom responding this way then that would be fun. Combined with the fact that his track record as GM this far is subpar while Wheeler will walk away with over $118 million in career earnings…
So it’s okay for players to take unprovoked shots at an entire franchise but they can’t respond?
If you want to act like the child first, it’s not out of line to get a childish response in return.
Unprovoked? He was literally asked directly. He simply responded to a question. And yes. Most GMs would not have responded like Brodie. He is not your average GM. He is a loudmouth who guaranteed the division last year and is already chirping this year.
He didn’t guarantee anything
Um, loudmouth. Why I remember a certain teams owner bragging about spending “stupid” money. Yet this off-season has been more yawn than roar. All from the team that fell into 4th place.
Middleton has nothing to do with this conversation, and saying you might get a little stupid with money is a lot different than insulting a former player.
I think it’s great, but rare, for a player, GM, owner or whomever to give an honest answer. Some guys, like Jeter, always give the bland cliched answers, which is fine if they don’t want to stir things up. But it’s a lot more interesting if we get their true feelings.
Being confrontational and stirring up conflict is unprofessional for someone in management. Period.
All Brodie had to say was, “we would have loved to have had Wheeler back but frankly we couldn’t afford him” & everyone would have understood.
Everyone except the Wilpons.
He responded to Wheeler’s insult. I see nothing wrong with responding. If you don’t want to be insulted, then start with not insulting the other person first.
Dude, that’s awesome. I wish more clubs would employ crickets to do their off season decision making. #EmployTheCrickets #JobsForCrickets
If Wheeler sought a contract with the Mets and they literally didn’t respond, that’s not cool. It would have been common courtesy to at least sit him down and explain that they’re going in a different direction and were allowing him to be a free agent. It sounded like he was being loyal and they ignored him. Again, if it’s true.
His fate was sealed as soon as the Mets signed Stroman.
They did respond before QO tried to work on a multiple year deal per reports. Who knows what they offered but im guessing somewhere around what shark got from the giants 5/90 which he knew he could and did better during FA.
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/zack-wheeler-rumors-ang…
Also during FA the mets were not even rumored to be talking to him after QO especially once it hit over 100M. He is not an ace pitcher but he is being paid as one. How do we know the mets didnt tell him straight up after he rejected the QO this is as high as we are going and not going to go up beyond that. So he had his answer since November.
I like Wheeler and hoped there was a way he could have stayed but at the time with Cespedes contract still full and with what we had for the rotation just didnt make sense. I still wish him well against every team except the mets 🙂 but as was said before this will add a couple more seats for his first game at citifield or citizen against the mets he starts.
“He is not an ace pitcher but he is being paid as one.”
$118 over 5 years is not an ace contract. Look at Sale and Price. Heck, look at Cole. Look at Verlander’s 3 year $94MM AAV. Look at DeGrom’s AAV after this year ($33.5MM in 2021 and 2022, $30.5MM in 2023…). Those are Ace contracts, north of $25MM/year.
No one knows what Wheeler did. Did Wheeler say ‘Philly offered me $118M, but I am willing to take $100M from you’.. Or did he say, Philly offered me $118M, but if you offer $130M, I’ll go back”?
Without knowing the exchange, it is impossible to judge.
If the Phillies want to pay a #2 like a #1, that’s their business.
The same Mets fans would say they’re cheap now would be the same ones complaining about overpaying a guy like Wheeler if he can’t keep up his current performance, which considering he’s 30 already, is a fair bet that he can’t.
Remember when Arrieta was going to solve all their problems?
In today’s market, I don’t think Wheeler got paid like a #1. Anyway, it’s not about money, it’s about need. 90% of teams would have regretted letting Wheeler go, but the Mets rotation is stacked. Quite frankly they didn’t need Wheeler. Whereas Wheeler is clearly the 2nd best pitcher on the Phils.
He is the 13th highest paid starting pitcher.for 2020 and thats with the yankees (Cole and Tanaka), astros (Greinke and Verlander), dodgers (Price and Kershaw) and nationals (Scherzer and Strasburg) having 2 each. You can make argument Price went to the dodgers just recently but Sale is also above Wheeler.. He may not have the length of other big names but he is definitely getting it AAV.
spotrac.com/mlb/philadelphia-phillies/zack-wheeler…
Correct, but in terms of FA starters of his caliber going forward, I don’t think this money will seem outrageous. We will see what next year’s class gets.
“If the Phillies want to pay a #2 like a #1, that’s their business.”
$118 over 5 years is not a #1 contract. Look at Sale and Price. Heck, look at Cole. Look at Verlander’s 3 year $94MM AAV. Look at DeGrom’s AAV after this year ($33.5MM in 2021 and 2022, $30.5MM in 2023…). Those are Ace contracts, north of $25MM/year.
The number 1 starter on this year’s market got 36m per year until his age 37 season.
Wheeler and BVW sound like a teenage couple that just broke up, each trying to paint themselves as the victim to their friends.
Wheeler had a 4.44 era in the first half of 2018 and a 4.70 era the first half of 2019. Surprised you guys missed what BVW was referencing to. He’s 100% right. As a Mets fan I’m happy Wheels got paid. But to expect the Mets even to respond to that contract offer is laughable.
Wheeler is not wrong in what he said and Brody is acting like an immature child. Not a Phillies fan or Mets fan but is anyone going to argue that the Mets franchise have historically been known to be very cheap? The Wilpon‘s Who have been historically nicknamed by their own fan base as “the coupons“. All wheeler said is that he never heard from them and he was not surprised because that is how they do business which is entirely the truth. The way Brody is acting as if he broke up with the hot girl and the hot girl ended up with an even hotter guy and now that guy is saying “you know, she was never that hot anyway“. Is wheeler worth 118 million? Absolutely not. But, I have a feeling down the road Mets fans are going to say “we should have resigned wheeler“.
Wheeler insulted the NYMs FO. The NYMs’ FO insulted him back. End of story.
solid clap back from BVW. Love it.
Brody touting the Mets great “health and performance department” made me do a spit take on my coffee, lol!
Brodie is right. In the last years Wheeler had 2 really good half’s of seasons. You can say he had a strong 2018 overall but 2019 was a good second half. $118m was too much for a #3 starter
Brodie Van Wagenen is still in “agent” mode when it comes to responding to criticism. When you’re in charge of an MLB front office, you need to be more mindful of getting into a public spat. He could have easily taken the high road and said “We got a ballpark feel for where he was at before making him a qualifying offer, and with the level of interest he was obviously generating in free agency, we knew we weren’t going to be able to make a competitive offer. Out of respect to Zack, we didn’t ask him to take a discount or make him a low ball offer.”
All these posts about Wheeler being overpayed. This is why sometimes I wish the word “overpay” would be sensored like a cuss word. Cole, Strasburg, Rendon, Bumgarner and Donaldson all got paid beyond their projections so Wheeler fits right in. It’s time for the fans to adjust to the market because the market itself has changed.
What’s the key word to describe all of those players, with exception to Wheeler? The answer is consistency. The market changing has nothing to do with the fact the Phillies took a massive risk, for a significant term, on a player with significant injuries to his pitching arm.
The keyword is market adjustment. Don’t read what I’m not saying. I didnt say Wheeler is the exception in this group. In fact in my second sentence I said he fit right in.
The fact that Wheeler is a risk takes nothing from the fact that many players have gotten “overpaid” but when so much of the field is “overpaid” it’s something different: market adjustment.
*second to last sentence
Hi
No, adjustment is not the key. He was a massive risk for the term of his contract. Those players you named have been consistent and have performed well multiple seasons. Yes, players hit over their projections, but that does not fit into what we are talking about with Wheeler. He is well overpaid (via term, not necessarily in dollar value per year) when being compared to those same peers at his position, who signed contracts in the same market period. Is he worth north of $20M per year? Yes, in my opinion, he is. His overpayment was the 5-year commitment.
Strasburg has an injury history. It’s less than Wheelers but he also got paid extravantly more. Cole has back to back ace seasons and got the longest contract a pitcher has ever seen. I would call that pretty risky. Bumgarner with his rediculous splits and xFIP makes him insanely risky. Donaldson is 34 but he got a bigger contract than projected..all of these can be argued as overpays but when you start saying everyone is overpayed you simply muddy the word to the point of uselessness. This is why we should see this as a market adjustment rather than an overpay.
Shot, not shoot.
BVW is in a no win situation. He has a limit on how much he can spend. When he makes decisions he is literally trying to get the most while offering the least. He is well aware of how good Wheeler can be but at the same time can only offer to sign him for less than the market ( Phillies ) dictates. I think his reaction is more about how Wheeler’s frustrations ( he is well aware of the Met’s financial situation ) obscures the realty of how the Met’s have had an injured and for the most part inconsistent pitcher. ( except the last two second half’s )
As a players agent it was his job to know the relative value of every player. Yet as Met’s GM he has a spending budget which requires him to pick carefully. If Wheeler’s comments were directed to the Wilpon’s they would be accurate.