Shortly after Astros owner Jim Crane, new manager Dusty Baker and players Alex Bregman and Jose Altuve addressed the media in a press conference regarding their sign-stealing scandal yesterday, the clubhouse was opened up for the entire roster to offer comments on the ordeal. Their comments created quite the contrast with those still emerging from others around the league.
George Springer, Josh Reddick, Bregman, Altuve and Yuli Gurriel were among the many Astros players to express varying levels of contrition. Most spoke in general terms, though, and the key phrases throughout left many of the sentiments feeling more rehearsed than genuine. Springer, Bregman and Verlander repeatedly referenced the “remorse” felt by the team, while virtually everyone interviewed spoke of the need to “move forward.”
Asked if he understood the anger that’s been expressed by players from other teams, Reddick stated: “At a point, you kind of see where it’s coming from, but you really don’t know how everybody feels about it.” Indeed we don’t have exhaustive knowledge of the views of all the league’s players, but that characterization still seems at odds with the prevailing sentiment we’re seeing early in camp. There has been an unprecedented public backlash from players and members of other organizations. (More on that below.)
The typically outspoken Verlander favored brevity Thursday, telling reporters, “I wish I’d said more” but sidestepping the question of what, if anything, he actually did say at the time: “That’s between myself and my teammates.” Both Verlander and Reddick declined to comment on how they’d have felt to be on the opposite side of the scheme.
Shortstop Carlos Correa perhaps offered the most forthcoming and reflective comments, plainly acknowledging that the sign-stealing operation gave Astros hitters an advantage. Correa also admitted that the Astros had their infamous trash-can setup in place during the World Series “if we had a chance” but added that the noise level at Minute Maid Park and the Dodgers’ usage of multiple signs rendered the system difficult to use.
Correa further denounced a recent report that Carlos Beltran spearheaded the outfit while younger players were reluctant to stand up to the veteran, emphasizing that the blame shouldn’t rest on any one player but rather the group as a whole.
“We all had a say in everything that we were doing in there,” said Correa. “We had the chance to stop it as a team. Everybody — everybody — had the chance to say something, and we didn’t.” Gurriel and Bregman offered similar sentiments regarding Beltran and the culpability of the entire team.
Astros players, like Crane, were unified in suggesting that the cheating scandal shouldn’t tarnish their World Series title from the 2017 season.
Asked if the Astros would’ve won the World Series without cheating, Springer replied, “I believe so. I believe in our team.” Lance McCullers Jr. spoke about the “great baseball” the Astros needed to play as a team to win the World Series and praised Houston’s “great pitching” against the Dodgers. Reddick, a former Dodger himself, said he “[doesn’t] feel like we should” have to reach out to any members of the Dodgers, Yankees or other teams they toppled en route to their 2017 championship. Even Correa, despite acknowledging that the trash-can system was set up, wouldn’t agree that the team’s title was tainted, citing the “special group” Houston had in 2017.
Looking beyond the Astros’ spring complex, former Houston lefty Dallas Keuchel, now of the White Sox, told reporters: “We’re always going to be World Series champs, because we were talented … To me, we earned the right to be World Series champs.” J.D. Davis struck a different chord, telling Mets reporters today that he is “ashamed” to have participated in the system. “Whoever gets crowned World Series champion has to earn it,” said Davis. “It’s unfair to the peers, it’s unfair to the fans, it’s unfair to you guys, the writers, as well. It’s terrible for baseball.”
Around the game, players and members of other organizations generally recoiled at the Astros’ apology efforts. Sean Manaea, Whit Merrifield, Andrew Heaney, David Freese and Dave Roberts were among the many names to speak up. Freese tweeted that the Astros’ media sessions were a “[expletive] joke,” while Roberts merely told reporters that he “believes in karma.” Merrifield told the Kansas City Star that the scandal “discredits everything those players have ever done” and pulled no punches in laying out the manner in which he’s lost all of the respect he once held for Astros players. Cody Bellinger spoke perhaps the strongest words of all, saying that Altuve “stole an MVP from [Aaron] Judge” and that the Astros “stole the ring from us.”
Crane’s inane comments seemed to spark particular ire. The Astros’ owner sounded more like Michael Scott than a contrite piece of the puzzle in making yesterday’s tone-deaf assertion: “I don’t think I should be held accountable.” And while he can continue his efforts to distance himself from the scandal and place blame on the leadership that he fired — GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch — those leaders were in place because of Crane’s own doing. Whether he was genuinely in the dark on the sign-stealing scheme or merely ignorant, the only people who seem to buy Crane’s lack of awareness work in the Astros organization or in Manfred’s office.
Crane later doubled down on his lack of accountability, stating that he believes the sign stealing “didn’t impact the game.” Less than a minute later, he claimed that he “didn’t say it didn’t impact the game.” His similarly clumsy closing remark that sign-stealing “could possibly [impact competition]” or “could possibly not” only further exemplified the extent of his dishonesty or delusion about the effect of his team’s actions. Yankees manager Aaron Boone appeared exasperated (video link) when asked about Crane’s statement that the Astros’ cheating didn’t impact the game, calling it “quite a reach.”
In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Manaea torched the Astros for “skating by” and was particularly critical of Crane’s claims: “What’s the point of cheating then? Why as a team did you collectively do it? Why did no one stop it? You’re not cheating to get worse or be the same. You’re cheating to win.”
Merrifield agreed: “It definitely [tainted their championship] because they didn’t feel like they could do it by going out and playing the game. … So if they don’t think they could have won it, why should we think they could’ve won it in 2017?”
Joining the party this afternoon was Reds righty Trevor Bauer. The ever-opinionated hurler offered some well-reasoned and forcefully delivered remarks, as Bobby Nightengale of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports. Given his history with some of the Houston players, and prior comments on this matter, it was hardly surprising to hear Bauer label the Astros “filthy,” “hypocritical,” and “underhanded.” He reserved added animosity for Crane, with Bauer labeling him a liar.
Executives have also weighed in. Nationals president of baseball ops Mike Rizzo and Yankees GM Brian Cashman made no secret of their disdain for the Astros’ actions, as MASNsports.com’s Mark Zuckerman (link) and MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch (link) report. Rizzo said he feels the Houston organization must acknowledge that it cheated and called for a fully complete investigation. Cashman was a bit less strident but did acknowledge being upset. Both leaders also noted a need to move forward, though it still seems there’s some cleanup left for the league.
Looking back to the Houston organization itself … on the whole, the scene at Astros’ camp seemed almost satirical. Crane sat at a press conference in which he sought to absolve his players of any responsibility before immediately making them available to apologize for the same scandal he proclaimed not to be their fault. Early Thursday morning, it’d have been difficult to imagine the Astros walking away from the day somehow looking worse, but whatever contrition was displayed in the Astros’ clubhouse was overshadowed by the head-in-the-sand reaction of their owner. Perhaps Jim Crane’s master plan was to distract from his players’ role in the whole ordeal by flaunting his own public relations ineptitude. Mission accomplished, if that’s the case, but the organization looks no better today than it did before addressing the public yesterday.
mlb1225
I don’t think anyone really thought that they were sincer about it, but it’s just damage control at this point.
Manfredsajoke
Carlos Beltran was the alleged ringleader with Brian McCann asking him to quit this practice. I think this was probably something Carlos learned as a member of the Yankees. Yankees do have a confirmed history of PED usage, so they’re no strangers to cheating. Anyone who thinks the Astros were the only team to be sign stealing have their heads buried in the sand. They were just caught.
qbass187
The Yankees for years are also famous for using YES cameras to steal signs. No surprise Beltran came from there and then that’s the result in HOU.
delete
@qbass187 please provide a link to information about the Yankees using TV cameras to steal signs after that practice was made illegal in 2016. I will wait. It doesn’t exist
Rudy Zolteck
Well it doesn’t exist *yet* because the league doesn’t investigate even though they have good reason to. You’re ignoring his point.
MoRivera 1999
qbass187 / You Know What…? Intimidation
Yankees are NOT famous for using YES cameras to stealsigns. They were accused of it by the Red Sox. They were investigated and the allegations were found to have NO MERIT. Stop lying.
Rudy Zolteck
If that were the case then the Athletic wouldn’t have said that there is good reason to believe they were doing it since 2015. And you just saw the MLB try to cover up an alleged buzzer thing, right? I know you think that. So why should we believe the league isn’t trying to cover for the Yankees?
MoRivera 1999
NO MERIT
Rudy Zolteck
Just showed you why there is merit, don’t be such a homer.
MZ311
Nice evidence you linked. You got the ass part right in your name at least
AtlSoxFan
Beisbolista – if you go back and re-read the articles put out by the athletic in which they touched on astros stealing and mentioned red sox use of the replay room they also stated they were quoting multiple yankees former players as stating they used the replay room during games in 2017, 2016, 2015, and likely further back.
So I’d guess trying to guess the identity of those player sources look to guys who were around, and no longer are, from those general years.
Daynlokki
Replay room isn’t the same as using a real time camera. All televised portions of a baseball game are on a slight delay specifically to combat teams stealing signs in real time. Isn’t this common knowledge by now? If the Yankees even used the Yes network portions… those are all delayed.
shortytallz
Every team had PED users, so this is silly
wordonthestreet
Qbass you are full crap
thickiedon
Especially the Astros
delete
@Manfredsajoke Forgive me if I don’t take your pontificating too seriously. especially since you don’t even seem to know the reason why the Astros got in trouble. Hint. It wasn’t sign stealing. You can point to individual player PED use all you want (some before the ban which was fine and some after the ban which was not) But you need to recognize the gigantic difference between that and the Astros situation, which involved an entire team conspiring to systematically steal a World Series, MVP Award, and two Pennants through the conspiratorial use of the entire organization’s resources. This is the biggest scandal in baseball history and there is nothing that you can compare it to.
Rocker49
It never takes long for the ignorance of beisbol to arrive
Geebs
This is not the biggest scandal in baseball history, I would argue that 8 players on the 1919 white sox being paid to throw the WS makes for a bigger scandal. I’m not trying to take anything away from this but I have to imagine that conspiring to throw a WS is bigger then conspiring to cheat to win a WS. I would also argue that being as players literally rewrote the record books on the back of PED’s in the late 80’s early 90’s and peaking the early 00’s that might also be a bigger scandal.
MoRivera 1999
Ignore anyone who names themselves after John Rocker.
ThePeople'sElbow
well you’re wrong, it’s that simple. This scandal completely rocks the foundation of the sport. Baseball is a cat and mouse game and without that element they might as well be playing softball at the local park.
PEDs do not help you hit a baseball, and it’s arguable that it helped players hit it further. But knowing the pitch type and location that certainly helps you hit the ball, and hit the ball far and hit the ball where you want.
delete
@abgb123 I respectfully disagree with you on both counts. Stealing a World Series from another team is much more serious than handing another team a World Series on a silver platter. As for the PED comment Your point is taken and yes the record books matter very much. However the entire point of baseball is to win the World Series. So World Series titles do matter much more than individual statistical records. All serious issues to be sure but this one really takes the cake
Geebs
Well no I’m not wrong, I’m also not an Astros fan and I don’t think MLB came down on them nearly enough but this is not bigger then PED’s and especially not bigger than players throwing a WS (I noticed you ignored that).
You should really do some research about the effects of PED’s on athletes because you sound really ignorant.
Anyway I’m willing to disagree and leave it at that.
ThePeople'sElbow
that’s like your opinion, man. and yes you are wrong. you can think whatever you want, that’s your entitlement but to think that an entire organization cheating a sport at large over multiple years, conspiring to keep this in house and developing a codebreaking scheme that the CIA would be jealous of is naïveté at its finest.
PEDs were not illegal at the time and Bud Selig allowed it because it brought money into the sport. But that’s right Bobby Estallela won MVP, after all the PEDs he took?
no one is going to argue that putting chemicals into your body doesn’t have negative side effects, but again those were personal decisions those individuals made that didn’t affect anyone but them and their bodies.
The Astros cheated the game, their peers, the fans, everyone. And now they they’ve been caught are showing 0 contrition. Instead they’re basically flipping everyone off. And you don’t think this is HUGE.
Agree to disagree all day bud.
ABStract
Is that what you’re arguing?
What’s the bigger scandal?
Christ, way to miss the point!
Regardless of where it lands on the all time scandal meter, it’s a huge deal that literally shakes the legitimacy of baseball to its core.
I’m all for the entire Astros organization and all of the players involved (whatever team they’re on now) being suspended for at least one whole season. That’s where the punishments should have STARTED!
Some of these guys should be completely banished from the sport altogether, this is as bad or worse than what Rose did.
The fact that all these cheats are still allowed to play the game like they did nothing wrong is insane, but does follow the modern trend of perceived “winners” that are actually cheaters somehow being allow to take no accountability for their actions…not to get political, but today’s headlines prove my point
kzw
Ok, now I’m on the fence about whether or not it helps you hit a baseball. It does make your hands quicker which can in turn help you hit a baseball. That’s neither here nor there, so I’ll give that one a pass. However, to say that’s it’s arguable that it helps players to hit a baseball further is about as laughable as it gets. I don’t even feel like I have to provide a counter argument because that is pure ignorance. Barry Bonds went from hitting 30-35 homeruns over 500 at bats. Then, as a 34 year old, began hitting more homeruns than he ever has in 200 less at bats.
JoeBrady
PEDs do not help you hit a baseball, and it’s arguable that it helped players hit it further.
—————————————————————–
ROTFLMAO!
40 HRs use to be the standard for a really good season, and 50 was the standard for an epic year. Bonds hits 73 at age 36. Do you really believe in what you are saying?
Rudy Zolteck
PEDs were banned after 91, and they were already controlled substances. Ryan Braun is a notable example and even tried to fire back by saying that his accusers were anti-Semitic, lol, so it’s up there.
LarryCera
If you really don’t think PED’s don’t help you hit a baseball (bat speed, psychological improvements that come from the high anabolic sin the system, power to drive the ball, etc.) you probably don’t have a place in any legitimate discussion. You’re too busy traversing the infantile fantasy land in your own head. Mindless platitudes and mantras are already in large supply in this day and age, to think that you just took the time to offer another is stupefying
ayrbhoy
Beisbolista- I understand the gist of your point, and that is, it’s a huge scandal. It’s a stain on the sport and the players and owners botched their chance to apologize so it somehow feels worse now. When I look back at the 1919 Black Sox scandal and think about the fact that 8 players conspired with members of a mafia to intentionally lose a WS I think of the ‘honest players’ on that Chicago team and all the B Sox fans and wonder if they would agree with you. Sign stealing has been going on since the game began. Don’t misunderstand me- I think the Astros did a terrible thing. Taking money from the mob and cheating your team mates and fans of a World Series ring? That’s despicable. Not to mention gambling was outlawed at the time of this scandal so it’s difficult to understand the impact of the Black Sox scandal when we currently live in a world where we can bet instantly on our smartphones.
It’s a shame we’re even debating which is more scandalous and I feel terrible for every pitcher that got demoted or lost an MLB contract (McClain, Bolsinger) after being shelled in HOU. It will be interesting to see how Bolsinger fares in his lawsuit vs the Astros.
teufelshunde4
PED’s helped players recover from workouts, in some players they had more sustained PT at peak physical abilities. But those were individual players. This is bigger because it impacted every hitter in Astro’s lineup, in real time game by game by game. Doing PED’s didnt let you know what p[itch was coming next, thats the Astro’s scheme. PED’s werent FO driven like Astro’s, which shows Lunhow, Hinch, Crane and esp Manfred lied about who was driving the scheme.
Astro’s scandal is 2nd to Black Sox in severity. .
kzw
Steroids have been an illegal drug on the national scale since 1990.
AtlSoxFan
I could see bolsinger winning, but being awarded “nominal damages” such as $1.
I think for bolsinger and his allied interests the value in the case is bringing the hidden facts into daylight. Extracting his “pound of flesh” if you will even if it doesn’t get any money back.
Likewise, Houston and probably MLB itself wants this to go away, and no publicity – not of the cheating, and not of the sausage-making type investigation where MLB doesn’t want the what/how they looked at things to come to light.
I think the reason we feel penalties are light is because MLB mightve went to Houston and said if you take this the rest goes away and we move on. We want this put to bed. You don’t take this we’ll hit you harder.
Now, with the Red Sox Id guess Manfred went to Henry with a similar offer, different penalties. This time, the owner (Henry) said you’ve got nothing on us to support what you’re asking for, thats too much, now pound sand.
Kind of meshes with quotes from mlb officials in the know saying they didn’t have evidence and penalties were expected to be minimal, Manfred is extending things hoping to crack someone somehow to manufacture his supporting evidence…
BobbyDynamite
Houston isn’t the team worried about the Bolsinger lawsuit. It’s Manfraud and the other 29 teams.
Why haven’t the Astros shown remorse for what they did? Because they knew their opponents were doing variations of the same thing too. How would they know that and the holier-than-thou twitter mob be ignorant of it? Because they play the game at the MLB level instead of just watching it on TV.
But if the Bolsinger suit moves into a discovery phase, a lot of information on the other teams is going to become public. The Astros will still be guilty of breaking Manfraud’s rule, but their guilt will be seen in a more accurate context, one that shows this guilt was spread pretty widely around.
Widely enough that the rule needs to be changed as the teams have no intention of following it anyway.
delete
@ayrbhoy Thanks for taking the time to write that. Valid points and I’d be furious as a fan of that team. I think stealing from 29 fan bases is worse than stealing from one… But your point is taken
dave13
Well yes you are wrong and literally the second sentence he mentioned throwing the WS so how could he have ignored that? Just shows how dumb you actually are
Frisco500
Kzw that’s a broad statement. For instance, there are steroids in certain asthma medications.
terrymesmer
Thank you. This is a point seldom made when morons (including some reporters) say Bonds and the rest should be in the Hall of Fame. They argue it wasn’t against the MLB rules at the time, ignoring that pretty much every MLB user of PEDs had obtained them illegally.
Do the MLB rules explicitly forbid you murdering the other team’s pitcher in his hotel room the night before a start? No. But it is illegal. And MLB would suspend you for life.
maxorange33
Knowing what pitch is coming will help anyone hit the ball better AND further, PED’s only help the “further” part. Also some of the stats of those Black Sox were pretty darn good for somebody not trying.
AngelDiceClay
Every team steals signs. That’s not the issue. It’s the tipping off the batter’s with the trash cans and hidden signaling devices.
Goyanks51
That’s what the Astros said but we know damn well it was a team effort to cheat @manfredsajoke
Psychguy
But they didn’t even get that right. Collective arrogance and stupidity.
BlueSkies_LA
You know what they say about sincerity: if you can fake that, you’ve got it made. Unfortunately for Crane and his players, they aren’t even good at faking it.
bigjonliljon
That’s all it was. Damage control. But there lack of remorse and message of putting into the past and going forward, seriously has back fired and made it worse
mistry gm
Who cares about their image. Throw them ALL out and Manfred along with them and at least save baseball.
letsholdemandgohome
I agree. It’s almost like they were forced to make a public apology to the media. I think they have remorse because they got caught. I believe if no one had suspected any wrongdoing up til now, they would be planning on continuing it for the 2020 season, and perfecting it during spring training before the season begins.
Four4fore
Spilled milk, time to move on.
Dodger Dogg
This is exactly what the Astros players are hoping for. Good luck with that!
BFFLR
No it’s not Baseball’s integrity is forever damaged and sweeping it under the rug doesn’t change that. If my team was found guilty of cheating I would want everyone punished severely and everything exposed for everyone to see.
Four4fore
Which rug are you thinking this would be swept under and what do you think will or can be done further? The popular action taken up until now is to bar those involved from HOF, so do that but what else within reason does anyone see actually happening?
MoRivera 1999
Let’s hear the commissioner declare all the players ineligible for the HOF and then check back with us.
ThePeople'sElbow
suspensions and fines. Correa’s basically implicated himself and his teammates. In any other criminal activity, once you’re implicated typically charges and sentencing are quick to follow.
Questionable_Source
3 year Postseason Ban.
bruceperdew
It starts by taking away the 2017 Championship.
Four4fore
It’s not the NCAA
ABStract
Thank you!
This truly is a criminal case, I’m glad that one pitcher is suing because he’s completely right. They didn’t just cheat some teams out of rings, but drastically affected the careers of many players who might have otherwise gone on to sign deals they weren’t able to because of games played against cheaters
AngelDiceClay
We get it. You’re a Astro fan.
realsox
Since the Commissioner has already ruled that they will not be punished, it falls to the Astros players themselves to make an act of contrition. Not words of vague deflection, but action that shows they accept their guilt for what they are reluctant to admit. Here’s an idea: how about if each player voluntarily returns his fat World Series check to MLB and have the league donate that considerable sum to charities that serve the needs interests of children? That would be a step in the right direction.
LarryCera
There seems to be a legitimate momentum build in this direction. I am actually believing that this could be eventually possible. Bellinger just openly stated his belief, and this isn’t going to get better any time soon. It may get worse as the team plays away games and fans build resentment at the belief that the Astros got away with it
jonesadoug
all involved need suspended for at least a year. it’s a slap in the face to all other teams players and fans if they don’t.
Four4fore
Google 444, so think again.
Rudy Zolteck
Exactly, and sweeping is what they’re doing by not investigating these other teams even after guys like LoMo and Joe Musgrove said they did.
delete
Neither of those guys were eyewitnesses or had any hard evidence like Mike Fiers did. Investigations don’t get launched over the salty whining of a) a loser who never made the team, or b) a member of a rival team that has recently been caught cheating and lying.
Rudy Zolteck
Fiers was a loser who didn’t make the postseason roster and he plays for a rival. So that does make him salty and thus have a bias. But also, you’re acting like other players aren’t in on when something happens. The Mitchell Report should have showed you that’s not the case. They do know about these things.
BobbyDynamite
Thank you for making this very relevant and important point that many people seem to miss, which is that Fiers’ accusations are likely to narrow the gap in the 2020 standings between OAK and HOU by at least a few games.
His accusations may have been accurate, but they were hardly motivated by a simple desire to clean up the game.
Rallyshirt
Hmm. Forgive me for saying, but the Athletic article had a considerable investigation which released to the public after Farquhar’s statement led some lucky guy to pull up some tape. They broke the story after Fiers, but the Athletic had the video evidence probably months before.
If we’re aiming for accuracy, this is how it played out.
realsox
How does one “move on” when the people responsible for the scandal—the players themselves—will appear as a group on the field day in and day out? The only way to move on would be to punish those players. Even as the roster changes from year to year, most of those involved will continue to appear in the big leagues with one team or another. They will someday retire without ever had been brought to the bar of justice. Only when they are gone from the game can MLB “move on.”
mistry gm
Manfred is making $11mm per year to ruin the sport. What is wrong with the fans for tolerating him.
EVERYONE. should stay home from EVERY ball park until the Astros players are suspended, the team is sold and Manfred is forced out #savebaseball
nrd1138
It looks like 2 Astros fans liked Four4fore’s comment.
The club got off easy considering MLB could (and should) have banned them from the playoffs for 3-4 years, they could have taken away the championship as well (and should have), heck maybe drop their luxury tax line to 100M (just for the owners stupid comments)
The owner also saying it added no advantage… well if that was the case why do it?! Just a joke of an owner and a club
Players issued their half @#$ed apologies in hopes that they do not spend all year getting plunked by opposing pitchers. Good luck with that..
Rallyshirt
The trashcan bangs no longer offered a reliable and effective advantage once they incorporated the buzzers.
So it’s not a lie.
The Umpire Strikes Back
You are right. Spilt milk sours and stinks when not cleaned up. It is time to move on to other entertainment than badeball.
Slinkinlip
I had respect for Jim Crane immediately after the punishment was handed down and how he reacted. After this presser and his “it didn’t impact the game” comment, I lost it all. How can you be that ignorant?
delete
When he said that all I heard was “It didn’t impact my World Series title, my team moving forward, or my bottom line.”
TickingTurtle
How could he say the ‘17 World Series was tarnished? Do you know what that would cost them financially?
delete
Good so lie about it on national TV. He should have said that cheating absolutely affects the game and it can swing a World Series. That would have been a perfect transition to him talking about how that’s why it’s so important for the Astros to implement controls moving forward and how he is going to provide public details about those controls as a blueprint for other organizations to prevent something like this from ever happening. That is how you handle PR. Not transparently lying and spitting in the face of your entire audience.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@ beisbolista
Excellent points – Crane in one fell swoop would have shown have contrition , decisive leadership and future accountability.
Instead (and in the context of this scandal) he looks at best an absolute imbecile and at worst like a holocaust denier.
“I didn’t know about it but it didn’t affect 2017 outcomes” then later “maybe it did”….If you didn’t know about it – how would you know of the impact?
Psychguy
I am hopeful the players around the league mete out the kind of justice only players can deliver. The cheating Astros and that a – hole Crane have done nothing but aggravate an already tense situation. Completely shameful and they got away without any penalty other than public outrage.
empirejim
Punishment is the Commish’s job, but he dropped the ball. He made it so that the Astros have no clear path back. He drops the hammer on them and then they’ve paid their due and we can all move on, the players included. The way he did it leaves the Astros in debt to everyone with no hope of paying it off.
delete
@empirejim This is well said and I agree
BlueSkies_LA
The commissioner works for the owners. Whatever he did or didn’t do, it was at their direction. So it’s the owners who dropped the ball by bending over backwards to protect one of their own. They need to stop doing that now.
racosun
They’re surely protecting more than one of their fellow owners.
BlueSkies_LA
And what else would they be protecting, pray tell?
Bashing Weiss
Agreed.
ayrbhoy
You can bet a whole lot of pitchers are going to inexplicably lose their pinpoint control of the ball when it’s time to face HOU
amk3510
Erase this organization. The cheating scandal, “codebreaker”, traded for a domestic abuser just because it was a discount, false calibrating data to puff up their prospects, purposefuly derailed a #1 overall picks career just to get a comp pick the next season. The Astros under Crane are too incompetent to call themselves a major league team.
beardedsoxfan
100% frauds. I live about 30 minutes from
Houston. Their fans are delusional. They’re defending them constantly. “Every team does it, they’re just the ones who got caught.” Sounding like me defending the Pats LMAO
snake120
I’ve read the majority of comments on this app concerning these a-holes,,,yours should be printed, framed and sent to Crane to hang in his outhouse,,,,just to remind him that he is FULL OF SH-T,,,a disgrace to the North American past time. Kudos amk 3510!!
Rudy Zolteck
Aiken’s arm exploded right after he went back to pitching after they dropped him… I think that’s a stronger case for his career being ruined lol
amk3510
It wasn’t just Aiken. They also had the same situation with Jacob Nix and how they handled it was terrible. They treated Aiken like a pawn.
Rudy Zolteck
You didn’t bring up Nix in your post. That was a mess but I don’t think it was extraordinary of them to do that. You have aggressive owners elsewhere in baseball that aren’t going to incur a penalty just for some kid. And if you mean that they derailed his career, his velocity improved at IMG and he was cut anyway. I don’t think you can pin that on them.
amk3510
They didn’t have to take a penalty. They offered the bare minimum possible while still getting a comp pick.
Rudy Zolteck
Astros offered 626k because it was the max without being penalized. He was the one that decided to be salty about it even though the circumstances changed. And I still don’t see how they can be said to be the bad guys because they skipped out on a guy whose arm fell off. That is just smart.
shibbynotdude
Don’t forget about excusing racist behavior by one of their players in the 2017 World Series. They are a despicable organization over and over again.
amk3510
Yeah I knew there would be something I forgot, just goes to show how bad they are. The Gurriel incident and Taubman one as well. What a clown show in Houston.
mistry gm
Crane shouldn’t be forced to sell the Astros. He should be forced to forfeit them. ALL the players should get a lifetime ban. This is MUCH worse than the 1919 SOX.
jonesadoug
agree 100%
empirejim
Scripted apologies never come off well. Especially after they had a month to work on it. I expect further revelations that will bring their house of cards all the way down.
JoeBrady
Everyone in their PR department should be the next ones to get fired. You never have your players sticking to the same narrative. That just tells everyone that they are rehearsed.
AtlSoxFan
It cetainly feels like an approved sheet of talking points was handed down.
I’d picture “you can say any of these, all of these, your choice. But do NOT stray from our approved remarks unless we discuss it in advance.”
Still lacking genuine remorse and understanding by the team. They had immunity, what are they worried about?
Could be there’s MUCH more they didn’t tell mlb and the immunity only covered what they disclosed so they fear repercussions from more coming out – like buzzers for example.
zippytms
“apologies” :rolleyes:
shawn hemp
The pointing the finger at everybody else shows how delusional this fan base is. I haven’t seen one video of another team banging on trash cans to alert hitters. Literally hours of video showed the asstros doing it. Sign stealing always been a part of the game but it only worked if u could get a guy on second and he was able to get that info to the batter. They crossed a line. Period.
Rocker49
once someone spells the name asstros you lose all credibility
MoRivera 1999
Once someone names themselves after John Rocker they lose all credibility.
shawn hemp
Idgaf how u feel rocker. If u believe or defend these dbags then I don’t need to be credible I n ur eyes cause u stupid ad
shawn hemp
Af*
ziggydoc
Has anybody thought how this impacted the players stats over a full season and should the ones who benefited from it have their contracts penalized(if they got a new contract in the last couple of years)?
AtlSoxFan
Even morals clauses generally cover conduct going forward, not past actions. Only thing I could see is suspensions or the like.
Good luck getting any contract penalties through the union.
ziggydoc
I agree but players contracts are based off stats from the previous year and those stats aren’t accurate.
Nothing will happen but I just thought of the possibilities going forward.
halo6219
in sincere apologizes will never repair damage done….OWNING IT is the only way
dray16
everything’s bigger in Texas
cleve1969
The rest of the league won’t be satisfied until every player on the Astros 2017 team is suspended for life, strip the Astros organization of the World Series title and force Jim Crane to sell his team to Biden, Sanders or Pelosi
Mtemple1
Lol, the defenders always fall back on comments like this. It starts to make a lot of sense why some Astros fans are so eager to apologize for brazen ethical violations when you realize they’re all also Trump supporters.
Rocker49
In other words, winners
Mtemple1
Proud filth
Col. Taylor
*
Garboy
Um….no, business failures. Do six bamkruptcies equal one disgraced franchise?….
No Soup For Yu!
Someone should suggest to Crane that Astros pitchers shout out what pitch they’re throwing all season long if he’s so adamant that it didn’t affect the game. Houston should still win 95 games even with that caveat, right?
shawn hemp
Lol. Fr. See if it impacts the game Jim.
delete
LOL. Great take here. That you won’t get many substantive responses from the Astros fans on this one
Rudy Zolteck
LMJ already did it with the Yankees and it went just fine, I’m sure you remember. And they scored 0 runs that game, before you blame the cameras.
No Soup For Yu!
Yeah, it’s not like the Astros were ever shutout at home while they were cheating. Your single game sample size doesn’t prove jack, and you’re a moron for implying otherwise. Otherwise a guy who pitches 4 scoreless innings and gets injured would win the ERA title. We have a full season of games and the playoffs to reference for 2017, and we know the Astros not only nearly tied their franchise record for wins (at the time), but they also won it all. Let’s have the Astros give away pitch information FOR A FULL SEASON and see how it goes. Apologies for the emphasis, but since I said that in my original comment and you somehow missed it, I figured I’d help you out.
Rudy Zolteck
… it was a joke dude take deep breaths
ChapmansVacuum
Mariano Rivera did this his entire career! You knew the cutter was coming and it did shiet for being able to hit it! lols
TheAdrianBeltre
These guys don’t deserve one comfortable at bat all season either…
dejota
Wow mlbtraderumors is sinking to a new low. What changed? What new information prompted this post? I get updates on the scandal, I get posts when punishments are handed down or new pieces of info come to light. And I even understand the this site like to weave in small takes in posts. This is nothing short of a hit piece disguising itself behind new quotes.
I get it, we cheated and we deserve punishment and The Astros reaction was unpalatable. But nobody is bothering to ask themselves why the Astros reacted this way. Maybe it is hubris, it’s a fair assumption. But maybe, just maybe, they understand this story hasn’t been completely told yet. This was weak by MLBTR standards.
You’re better than a hit piece Steve Adams. This read like a crappy r/baseball post.
delete
What changed is that yesterday the Astros had an absolute abortion of a press conference where the owner and two “star” players of the team spat in the faces of baseball fans everywhere and added fuel to an already hot-burning dumpster fire. Their insulting farce of a press conference has been the source of outrage from people around the baseball community. That’s what has changed. And yes it was worthy of an article. MLBTR has been way too conservative to this point as far as expressing an opinion on the Astros literally stealing a World Series, MVP Award, and AL Pennants. Try not to be too hard on them for finally doing what everyone else but the Commissioner is doing– trying to hold the Astros accountable.
Rudy Zolteck
Yankee homer part of the outrage mob? Unthinkable. Posts like this are why they should have just said nothing. It’s never going to be enough for you and everyone reading your comment knows it.
delete
@Youknow You are absolutely correct. I do not care about their apologies. All I care about is the fact that they got away with it without any penalty whatsoever.
Rudy Zolteck
I’m sure people said the same thing about NYY even back when Steinbrenner tried to end Winfield’s career. My point was they shouldn’t even apologize at this point because you just spit these walls of text about it no matter what haha
tiredolddude
Crane sounded like a politician but jeez, someone should have coached Bregman and Altuve on how to sound a little sincere, at the very least. Their collective approach seemed to be, “We’re only here because we’re being forced to” and that the only thing they were sorry for was being caught. I’m no Yankees fan, but sheesh
Rocker49
You do know that Beltran played for other teams before that season right? It didn’t start out of the blue in Houston, they were just the ones ratted out.
MoRivera 1999
There’s no evidence of Beltran stealing signs with the Yankees. Oops!
Rudy Zolteck
… because there was no investigation. You missed his point as usual.
MoRivera 1999
There’s no place for an accusation if there’s no evidence. Because then it’s just slander. Which is all you have. Get it?
Rudy Zolteck
So the Athletic is just words on a page to you now? And Morrison and Musgrove are just quacks? Lol keep denying it buddy.
MoRivera 1999
Yes The Athletic is just words on a page. They’re writers, not gods.
Rudy Zolteck
Yeah but they don’t say things for no reason. Obviously they had some semblance of evidence if they were willing to say that this cheating was going on in NY even before 2017.
MoRivera 1999
Please do cite with author, date and quote. I guarantee the statement is not as forceful as you suggest and/or the author is the resident BoSox/Astro homer.
Rudy Zolteck
Google is your friend, I’m not subscribed to it.
empirejim
Ya, we should all feel real sorry for the poor, misunderstood Astros and just let them go along their merry way. Then again, their apologies were so scripted that they will outlast plastic straws in the cosmic dump of apologies. Point your finger at the Astros, that’s where the blame lies.
No Soup For Yu!
Or maybe they reacted this way because they don’t actually feel sorry for what they did? I mean, why would they? They won it all. The apologies were a waste of time because we all know for sure now that the Astros don’t feel sorry, and since they’re not actors or politicians (kind of the same thing tbh), they couldn’t even do a good job pretending to be sorry. Also, only Astros fans think this is a hit piece. Hit pieces are, as a rule, exaggerated or filled with outright lies. That is not the case here. Nothing written in this article is fabricated. It only feels like a hit piece to you because it hits on so many uncomfortable truths that Astros fans want to hide from by whining, “Oh everybody’s out to get us! They all cheated to much lesser degrees than us, so it’s okay that we did it on such a comedically large scale!” Accept it. The Astros are trash, and until these players all move on and the owner retires, that’s what it will always be now.
JustCheckingIn
How many new quotes are there? F outta here
TheAdrianBeltre
I am sorry that your team did this to you as a fan, but you are the exact type of ostrich fan that doesn’t see how this whole thing sets back the sport. Folks like you are why the title should be vacated, and then maybe you guys will understand. The article was written because, aside from some of Correa’s quotes, everyone pretty much thumbed their noses(World Series ring hand of course) and justified their championship. Baseball careers, the sport’s reputation, and fan trust will never be the same. My buddy is just a lifelong Astros fan, and because he has integrity this has just destroyed his love for baseball. This is roster time, battle time, hype time, prospect time for us normally. Now he’s started watching hockey(I am a Stars regular), and we have not talked about the diamond in weeks. The MLB and Astros keep screwing this up, so he’s disgusted and understandably so… These guys cheated and have really not been held accountable. So they have a press conference that lacks accountability, which gets them into further hot water. But you would justify their behavior for some unknown reason while condemning the writer who can justify his article based on their behavior?
jjp
There will be discussions about the CHEATERS for a long time. One thing it is definitely NOT time to do is move on. This organization has never apologized nor shown any contrition for being the CHEATERS they are. They and their World Series victory in 2017 will forever be tainted, and rightfully so.
dejota
So your expectation is the Astros wallow in contrition until you feel better about it? Got it. Sounds about right for the seething masses.
delete
@dejota I think what he was saying is that we should not simply sweep the biggest scandal in baseball history under the carpet and move on like nothing happened. I also think he was quite clear about that. The members of the Astros don’t get to get away with this and move on with their lives without having paid any penalties whatsoever.
MoRivera 1999
What contrition? Let’s see some credible contrition and then we can talk.
TheAngelsAngelsofAnaheim
Perhaps admit to their wrongdoing? We’re not asking for wallowing. Just some sincerity. They cheated. They should own up and apologize.
marijuasher
Josh Reddick was a terrible Dodger. He got booed by the home team because he sucked when he played in L.A. The fact he won a WS as a cheater shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Get ready for high and tight all season long.
BlueSkies_LA
Time for the owners to grow some cajones. Time for them to force Crane to sell the Astros to someone who can take responsibility for running a clean organization.
charles stevens
The man comes around.
luckyh
They should have just made a statement, no questions. Since they have been sued they can hide behind that. They really cannot divulge specifics. They still wouldn’t come off well, but it wouldn’t be this bad.
Michael Birks
They can be sued all you want, this is a workplace issue, not a civil one
oldschool 15
The Astros are a perfect example of no leadership. No leadership from their owner, front office and mostly the clubhouse.
How many times do we hear about the guy who is the clubhouse leader. Heck, some teams will sign an older free agent for the sole purpose of leading the clubhouse.
Yesterday’s news conference and clubhouse interviews in Houston showed quite obviously that they do not have a leader, all followers. It was pathetic to watch. Yesterday was a big day for not only the Astros but for all of baseball. We needed them to have a good day and they blew it.
pads fan1980
Wow did this really need written. Did you really expect a sincere apology when the team has one or more lawsuits against it now? They have to wait for that to finish before you see any real remorse.
The Human Toilet
Can’t wait for at least spring training games to start.
I get the importance of this and everything, but time to focus on 2020 and hype up the season.
Ully
Crane is insane in the membrane
Rudy Zolteck
All these comments pretty much prove that the Astros were better off not saying anything. If you give the internet an inch they will demand a mile, and keep demanding more and more miles after that. They just poked the embers with this and it did nothing for them. The Yankee homers foaming at the mouth are exhibit A.
friendly illinois brethren
They Astros are too inept to not say anything. If they could have cheated at the press conference they would have. You should be embarrassed.
Rudy Zolteck
I’m a dude commenting on MLBTR, I’ve done nothing to feel guilty for big guy. And your comment proves my point, more foaming. I agree it was incompetent of them to have this in the first place. They could have cried and you would be on here making fun of them for it, lol, so this would accomplish nothing even in principle.
JustCheckingIn
How about admit you’re cheaters and take the banner down on your own decision
People woulda been a lot happier than scripted “remorse” and “move forward”
Rudy Zolteck
No, they wouldn’t. You give an inch and MLBTR comments want a mile. That is how every situation goes. They were better off just being silent.
MoRivera 1999
When Melky was caught for PEDs (with the Giants? Pirates? can’t remember) he gave the batting title to Buster Posey. Not only was he honestly contrite, he did the right thing. Imagine the Astros, Altuve or their fans doing that.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol Yankee fans talking about contrition. Imagine.
MoRivera 1999
Even A-Rod admitted using ‘roids and apologized. I don’t defend him the way you defend the Trashstros. Never expect you to. But you should given all the crap you throw around without even apologizing once.
Rudy Zolteck
I… don’t play in the majors and didn’t cheat so I’m not going to apologize for anything. You’re the one who thinks Altuve needed a buzzer to hit off Chapman because you are that big of a Yankee homer. And that’s just nuts to me lol
luckyh
After suing everyone and trying to destroy people’s careers. How long did that take? Let’s not give A-Rod any credit for that. I still can’t believe the redemption of A-Rod. Just disgusting.
The players at least owned up to investigators after Fiers spilled the beans. My comment on the Stros was not a defense, it was just looking at it PR wise. They had no shot at redemption. Do you think those players are even a bit remorseful? Look at Verlander’s past comments on the steroid users. He was quoted this week saying he should have “done more” to stop it. LOL What exactly did he do that wasn’t enough. Just wait, things tend to drop and the holier than thou are suddenly in the mud with the rest of them.
MoRivera 1999
You know what this is called? Intimidation
You should apologize for being a low-life Trashstro homer with no remorse for the team or your own wanton, remorseless defense of the team.
Rudy Zolteck
Lmao dude throwing names on the internet. Keep it classy NY
brucenewton
Dodgers don’t lose game 5.
JustCheckingIn
Kershaw has given up 1 hit thru 4, then 5 runs in 5 hitters. Wonder when they started cheating?
Rudy Zolteck
Like Kershaw has never melted down in the postseason before? What a genius.
Strike Four
Like maybe his “meltdowns” were all due to cheating? Ever thought of that, brain-genius?
Rudy Zolteck
Where is that “Strike Four’s Dad” burner when we need it? So every time Kershaw slipped and gave up a bomb in the postseason it’s cheating now? Every time someone does something good at baseball it’s cheating? Get over yourself.
charles stevens
One other thing I’d like to thank mlbtraderumors for finally opening these Astros columns up to comments. The team in Houston deserves every ounce of criticism they’re receiving. I just hope they hear us.
UhOh!
Jim Crane stated what Astro’s did dint impact the Game, then why we’re they doing it?
madjack117
– Everyone on the Astros from 2017-2019 should not make it into the HOF. This is more serious and deceptive than PED’s because it involves a whole team, not an individual player.
– The owner and managers paid the penalty, the coddled players still get pampered.
– The rehearsed apology is insincere to say the least. You’re sad because you got caught, not because you Cheated.
– To think I actually rooted for this team in the 2019 WS makes me feel dooped, lied to and dirty. Now I can’t wait until you come to T-Mobile park so I can boo you with the masses. What a joke of a team.
BFFLR
The Astros are cheaters and saying other teams did it to doesn’t change the fact that you cheated to win. If other teams are exposed for this then they also are cheaters and will always be. The integrity of baseball will be forever tarnished because of this and real fans will have a hard time trusting MLB for a long time. If you are an Astro fan and are making excuses and trying to minimize this then you are not a real baseball fan. Good luck with that!
Rudy Zolteck
If both teams cheat and one wins then you can’t say that doesn’t lessen the impact of the first team cheating. If both have the same competitive advantage, it definitely does sort of cancel.
empirejim
If both teams cheat it makes both of them cheaters.
JustCheckingIn
My god you have no proof stop pushing conspiracy theories
Rudy Zolteck
There is good reason for them to be investigated. You keep missing the point.
JustCheckingIn
No there’s not. You keep repeating the athletic post, which says 2017… which is right in line with Manfred letter saying “cheating won’t be tolerated blah blah blah”
Then the Astros did it for 3 more years and almost won two World Series, while making their system more elaborate to avoid detection. There’s zero reason to think the Yankees were doing it past then, other than you want to defend the Astros
The Yankees and dodger both had players contact the nationals pre World Series and warn how Houston was cheating. Why TF would they do that if they were also cheating. You’re so so dumb
Gettin greedy
You,sir are a moron.
Dodger Dogg
Crane’s own words tell you where the moral compass in the Astros organization comes from. The entire team is a pack of cheaters and liars who sound like they’re only remorseful that they got caught.
Kurt Suzuki said they were no doubt cheating in last year’s World Series. They would still be trying to get away with cheating if there was no investigation. From all the reporting, it sounds like Manfred was reluctant to even begin the investigation.
Astros need to vacate the championship!
Manfred needs to go!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
No apologies change the fact that they cheated and their title is illegitimate, so there is not much that can be done to repair their image.
The only change that will occur to their reputations is when more comes out and they look even worse.
No Soup For Yu!
Every Astros fan telling people to just move on needs to get bent. It’s clear as day that they miss their team being loved, or at the very least respected and feared, and they just want to go back to that. Don’t listen to them, and don’t let them. I’m not going to say fans should apologize for the team, but they haven’t exactly inspired pity with their gloating about their tainted World Series and conspiracy theories that MLB is out to get them. They don’t deserve to forget if they can’t at least admit what the team did was wrong instead of defending them to their dying breath.
TickingTurtle
What they did was wrong. Any Astros fan who tells you what they did is right is wrong, but I’m not leaving my lifelong team over this. They screwed up. The end. But they should still be feared. If you don’t believe that I don’t know what to tell you.
Dodger Dogg
Unfortunately, the Astros players were never punished or else this “feared” team would start the season at home. Crane’s moral compass is off and there is continual evidence that Houston’s cheating went beyond what spineless Manfred’s investigation found (e.g., Kurt Suzuki saying recently that the Nats heard whistles all WS and that the only way they beat the Asterisks was to change their signs every batter!) This goes WAY beyond “wrong”.
Rudy Zolteck
They did something wrong but I don’t see how you can deny the pointlessness of a press conference. Either they act disingenuous and no one believes them, or they cry over it and no one believes them. These are other fans whose teams lost to the Astros. Obviously they’ll never stop spewing vitriol on the internet over it.
friendly illinois brethren
They Astros are too inept to not say anything. If they could have cheated at the press conference they would have. You should be embarrassed.
HalosHeavenJJ
Jim Crane made himself look even worse than he already did. A minor miracle considering how bad he looked going into that thing.
mistry gm
It seemed strange to me that a terrible national league team could switch leagues and suddenly become great. Makes you wonder when it started doesn’t it.
thebluemeanie
It was an empty apology at best. They’re just saying whatever they think MLB and the fans want to hear. What we really want to hear is that Manfred is going to punish the players.
BlueSkies_LA
What some of what to hear is that the owners will punish Crane.
thebluemeanie
That too.
lsujedi
To your point, what could the Astros have said to make you feel better WHILE staying within the bounds of Manfred’s decision? Nothing. So if you, as Crane or whoever, go into the situation knowing that literally nothing you say or do at this moment will change anything, how then are you supposed to come off as sincere, knowing it all means nothing? It’s a charade.
lsujedi
To your point, what could the Astros have said to make you feel better WHILE staying within the bounds of Manfred’s decision? Nothing. So if you, as Crane or whoever, go into the situation knowing that literally nothing you say or do at this moment will change anything, how then are you supposed to come off as sincere, knowing it all means nothing? It’s a charade.
Halo11Fan
The Astros title is tainted. But because of PED use, a lot of titles are tainted.
Document it, try to prevent it from happening again, let the public decide, (like Bonds HR Records) and move on.
It’s a black eye to the sport. From Bonds to Bregman, Players never take responsibiltiy. Management never take responsibility, It’s up to the fans to assess accountability. And if the fans don’t care, they get the game they deserve.
#00 Reds Fan
This is the best comment on this entire article!! Everyone wants to minimize the PED use and say it doesn’t impact a world series but it absolutely does! Take those juicing players off those teams and they don’t even make the postseason or get home field advantage or their players don’t miss the whole season because of injury because they used HGH to return sooner and then they make the postseason. The Astros cheated and they have to live with that tarnished reputation. I get it but if you want to start taking banners down you better be ready to look at all of them.
sandman12
I don’t see any way around it … no World Series win in 2017 for anyone. All Astros players and personnel should return all bonuses earned from post season play. MLB should use the money to augment the pay of minor league players.
Did Houston continue the practice in 2018 and 2019 as well? Take that playoff money too.
Rudy Zolteck
Let’s take a sec to agree they should do something about MiLB pay regardless of whose bonuses get taken, lol
sandman12
very fair point
sandman12
I was trying to kill two birds with one stone
Dodger Dogg
Kurt Suzuki said that they heard whistles all series long during last year’s WS.
There is NO place in baseball for this!
Questionable_Source
Let’s stop focusing on the past. It happened, it’s done. We can’t take away the Astros past. We can, however, take away their future. No international signing for 2 years. 3 year postseason ban.
Dodger Dogg
It’s easy for Correa to say “It’s a lie” regarding the buzzer use when he knows that his own teammates won’t rat him out. Now, if there is more evidence that surfaces, can spineless Manfred reopen the investigation? If yes, I’m guessing Correa wouldn’t have put himself out on a limb like that.
sandman12
Calling one point (the buzzer) a lie is a standard approach to deflecting from the truth (they signaled with a banging sound),
Dodger Dogg
and whistles…
Dodger Dogg
The sentencing on the Astros players will have to be done by the fans. Can’t wait to see the fan reaction on Opening Day at the Big A! John Smoltz was right when he said that this won’t go away any time soon.
From the west coast to the east coast, let ’em have it! Bring the signs! Bring the trash cans! Bring the whistles! Bring the heckles and buy some peanuts and cracker jacks!
Let ’em have it!
TickingTurtle
Honestly, would anything they said mattered? No. Nothing they would of said would of worked.
JustCheckingIn
YES!
We cheated. We are taking the banner down
Period. That’s all that would do it and they have zero intent to do so
lsujedi
But even taking the banner down would undermine the commissioner, which for an owner isn’t an option. I get the anger, but after Manfred’s ruling, there really isn’t much they can do other than offer the ultimately meaningless apologies that the public expects yet would never accept.
JustCheckingIn
That’s a cope out
TickingTurtle
If they said that then it wouldn’t be good enough and they would want suspensions. If they suspend one they have to suspend all and that includes players who’ve moved on to different teams. Nothing will ever be good enough for the masses.
Gettin greedy
Go back into your shell.
Rudy Zolteck
Right on, there’s nothing that they can say or do that is going to satiate Yankee fans. After the way the last five years have gone they want all Astros to take a long walk off a short pier. No reasoning with them. You could see it in the way they treated Zack Greinke.
JustCheckingIn
“Yes they gave us an advantage”
But woah woah woah. We barely won the World Series in 7 games, but it helped!? Never!
-Correa
They’re worse than politicians
lsujedi
True, but people still vote for politicians.
lsujedi
True, but people still vote for politicians.
JustCheckingIn
Yeah and if I had a choice we’d vote the Astros out of the league, but guess the analogy doesn’t go that far
lsujedi
It’s a game. It’s the PR game. It’s a pretense and both sides know it. Nothing they say will make anyone feel any better or less cheated. But you have to come out and say this stuff anyways. I think the lack of enthusiasm and sincerity is simply the acknowledgement that the whole thing at this point is pr, and that’s not what athletes particularly excel at.
But to be fair, Correa’s and Yuli’s comments were at least direct and to the point.
Dorothy_Mantooth
While I agree 100% the Crane made the Astros look even worse as an organization, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance that MLB (commissioner’s office) met with him beforehand to make sure he stuck the script. If that’s the case, it goes to show just how out of touch Manfred is with the fan’s & players’ take on this and how not punishing the players backfired horribly.
While I don’t think the league should have stripped Houston of their title, nor suspend the entire team all at once, they could have suspended each offensive player involved 20-30 games each and allow the team to stagger those suspensions throughout the year so they could still field a team during the season, but make sure it hurt them on the field. Giving players 100% immunity for a supposedly ‘player-driven’ offense still makes no sense to me. With the reactions of the other 29 MLB teams, I think they could have convinced the MLBPA to accept this punishment since 95% of the union members are really pissed off about this.
AtlSoxFan
Manfred is scared of Tony Clark. (Who knows why)
3Men&ABibee
Well. At least they’re not alone in being trash. The Redsox are sitting at the table with them. Both=POS
lsujedi
Hey Indians fan, y’all aren’t innocent either. In the 90’s your owner tried to tank hard so that the team could move to Florida. Talk about a betrayal to the fans. Good thing that band of rebels gave the owner the finger and won in spite of her.
Questionable_Source
Are you joking or do you actually think
“Major League ” was a documentary?
3Men&ABibee
hey @isujedt Here is your sign. *Hands stupid sign over* Boston and Astros are trash and nothing will change that.
AtlSoxFan
Shouldn’t we wait to see/hear exactly what there is evidence of Boston doing?
There no Fiers or any other real-life source out there saying anything.
Geebs
I’m not trying to excuse it because that was the most bumbled thing but I wonder if that lawsuit had anything to do with the responses or any future possible lawsuits, and if that’s the case would they not have been better off with using some blanket “no comment due to ongoing litigation” type comment,
Scrap1ron
Looking at the face of Altuve sitting behind Crane while the owner spoke, he sure didn’t look remorseful. Altuve looked angry like a 5 year old when confronted for bad behavior.
This is only the beginning, boys. Hope it was worth it.
lsujedi
I mean Altuve cashed in for $30mil/year after that so yeah, I think he’d say it’s worth it.
Scrap1ron
Can’t buy me love or a reputation, eh Altuve?
seafordraven
This is just a example of Manfred afraid of confronting the MLBPA. To give the players a free ride in all this is just bogus. Manfred KNEW the players were to blame. Instead Crane fires the lesser of 2 evils in the GM and the manager. Everyone in the Astros knew about it and let it happen from the GM to the clubhouse boy.
Manfred is a complete joke.
Bt5201
Their new GM was answering questions yesterday, and his demeanor was absolutely pathetic. He said the people in the front office were awesome, and the “MVPete comment was horrible. He is not qualified to be in that role, and he showed that yesterday.
The first thing you do is fire those people mentioned in the WSJ report, and the second thing you do is fire the person close to Luhnow, and that would be Putulia.
lsujedi
Actually first thing you do is update LinkedIn and get new business cards. Jeez that’s like networking 101.
grantc
If a franchise ever needed to give its owner the Donald Sterling treatment, and force a sale — it’s the Houston Astros. It’s the only punishment that truly fits this particular crime.
Unfortunately, that action would put Rob Manfred — and his lack of fundamental oversight –under the microscope, and he’s been thus far content to let this situation blow up (and over) once the new season begins. So I wouldn’t expect it.
martras
Not sure why the Astros commented at all on it. If their comment was going to basically going to be “Suck it, losers! Scoreboard! We’re the winners, but we’re bummed people are mad at us for cheating. Next time we probably won’t cheat.”
ThePentaverate
And yet they’re still going to win 100+ games. Search your feelings. You know it’s true.
realgone2
Crane needs to go.
ripcookies
It’s too funny to see some of these naive astros fans. They are just like the players and owner. Blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility. If I was an astros fan I’d be finding a new team to root for because I love baseball. All the astros fans just liked winning, which is why they have no clue as to what’s going on and could careless about the game of baseball. None of you guys were fans until they started banging on trash cans, so it’s laughable thag you blame Beltran and the Yankees.
ThePentaverate
Who would you root for instead?
Unclenolanrules
Padres.
ripcookies
Nah machado is a chump
ripcookies
Oakland a’s
ThePentaverate
A’s? Well… hmm. I did like them during the Bash Brothers days. Even had a poster of them up in my room. Steroid team though. Who else you recommend?
ripcookies
Rays and white Sox in AL. Braves, pirates, Rockies/Arizona
I love baseball more than I love yankees but they are my favorite team since birth. But I’ve always rooted for small to mid market teams that can’t spend. And all these teams are ones to watch and root for next 5 years.
ThePentaverate
Hmm… I’ll go with the Pirates for the NL. Can’t root for the Chi Sox because they swept us in 2005 and that wasn’t very nice of them. So I guess I’ll have to stick with the Astros for the AL. Rays come in second though! I’ve been told they have a fantastic front office.
ripcookies
The championship should be vacated. Jim crane should be forced to sell. And rob Manfred should resign for protecting the players and organization. It’s obvious they used buzzers once they realized how easily they could get caught for banging on trash cans. Oh yea, Altuve should turn in his mvp award. Judge was just as good that year as a rookie, but didn’t cheat. At some point, a whistleblower is going to come out about the buzzers, and Manfred won’t be able to save face.
FishyHalo
Very well written Steve!
This whole situation could’ve been resolved if the commissioner negated the 2017 championship or punished the players.
andrewgauldin
I’m going to the Oakland and Astros series March 30 I think. Anyone like to join me and spit on the Astros?
ThePentaverate
You buying? If so, then yes!
I hate to ask this, but can you get some tickets for my kids too? They’ve been dying to see the Astros since the last time they saw them in Houston, again, in the World Series, again, in October, again. We lost this time though 🙁 So we need to get out and see them, again, soon!
Strike Four
Lmao all this crud associated with your cheating team is literally handing the AL West to the A’s on a platter this offseason.
Astros lost Cole, A’s are gaining 4 full seasons of Coles. Have fun with that lmaooo
MoRivera 1999
You know what? I hope the A’s do take it.
Rudy Zolteck
Obviously you both do, that’s the only way the Yankees will stop getting stood up. Astros won two of those times without Cole and can do it again. It’s a 25 man game.
AtlSoxFan
Well, 26 man, plus toss in a few trash cans and some buzzers here and there.
ThePentaverate
Yep. The Astros still know how to hit. The rage is a monster. It will consume you if you let it. It’s already caused the haters to fall asleep on this team and forget these guys were the best in the minors when they were coming up and have been the best in baseball since arriving.
goastros123
Strike Four, are you seriously suggesting the A’s have a rotation full of Gerrit Cole’s?
Unclenolanrules
After the press conference yesterday, I was done. I honestly could almost care less about the sign stealing, mainly because it is a rule that is largely ignored through the history of the sport. To me, if you steal signs with binoculars, a camera, from the the third base coach’s box, second base, whatever, it is really all ultimately the same thing.
What got me was the top down arrogance and entitlement, especially from Crane. None of the team seemed particularly “sorry” to me. What made me mad was just that rich man I answer to no one attitude.
I wrote a nasty letter to the team and Crane. Included that Crane should lose the team or at the very least be suspended like Steinbrenner in the 70’s. I also told him to go back to shipping v*brat*rs and c*c* r*ngs or whatever he did before that. (Owns a shipping company)
Take this spoiled rich man’s toys away, MLB. The team should retire. Until they are gone, this fan is gone, fan since 1979.
Good thing I kept an NL team like a concubine. Cheaterer’s Row.
ThePentaverate
Did you see Correa’s comments?
Dodger Dogg
You forgot that the Astros feed used real time and not delayed time feeds which is yet another violation!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
If Crane or the Astros or their fans HONESTLY believe that the Astros gained no advantage by knowing which pitch was coming next, there is a simple way to prove it…
Have the Astros pitcher show the batter the sign of the next pitch coming before each pitch this season.
OBVIOUSLY, the Astros will have no problem doing this since there is no competitive advantage to be gained or lost by doing it.
lowtalker1
Makes me wonder if the 2013 Red Sox cheated as well
Cooperdooper7
What the hell…. you are kidding… I hope you are not that ignorant.
ripcookies
That’s was beer and chicken
ripcookies
That’s was beer and chicken
#00 Reds Fan
Its kind of funny everyone is so mad about this and are so forgiving to the PED cheaters. No one is saying the Yankees should vacate their last world series even though A-Rod was on that team. If he isn’t on the team do they even make the postseason? And he CHEATED to perform as good as he did.
ripcookies
Huge difference. First a rod didn’t even use roids in ny. He used them in Texas. But got caught when he was with the yankees.
But ask hank Aaron. There’s a reason he hates the astros, more than he hates Barry bonds. Bonds cheated and broke his record, and he still hates the astros more. Think about that.
In order for steroids to work, you still need skill. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in all of sports. So in theory steroids just made you stronger and more durable (so they thought). But the astros knew what pitch was coming, eliminating the hardest thing to do in sports, which is hittin a baseball like I said. Ask any pitcher, they’d rather face some juiced up meat head, then someone who knows what’s coming and can hit it off a tee.
Hitting the ball off a tee is only part of it though. Imagine being able to lay off any slider or breaking ball because you know it’s coming and it’s moving away.
Stealing signs has been part of the game forever. I use to relay signs from second base in babe Ruth baseball. But to use technology and buzzers to basically eliminate a pitcher and the process of trying to square up a baseball is just dumbfounding.
There’s a reason they won. There’s a reason why they had the least amount of strikeouts. There’s a reason they had the highest obp. Theres a reason they hit the best with runners in scoring position. And there is a reason why the astros made great teams like the dodgers and Yankees almost look like JV teams compared to them.
Steroids were wrong and illegal. But to get a bigger advantage than steroids, and act like they are the best to ever play the game and not understand why people are upset is so ignorant.
#00 Reds Fan
Thanks for your comments. I agree the sign stealing was bad but not as extensive as PED use. None of the Astros players approached the otherworldly numbers of the PED guys. None of them hit 60 or more homers, etc. And don’t forget the Biogenesis scandal happened when A rod was with NY. And I’d be willing to bet you any amount of money that any mlb pitcher would rather face Altuve who knows if he’s getting a fastball or offspeed pitch ( No location ) than face Barry Bonds in his steroid prime. I’d say the biggest punishment for these guys (astros) is going to be the shame of it they Will feel from peers and fans.
AtlSoxFan
Heck, even in an altuve without buzzer or trash can relay vs a bonds without the juice people would pick altuve.
Bonds was just a better talent than altuve, baseline to baseline without any cheating by either.
It’s a shame when a talented athlete who already has shown the ability to be one of the top competitors of their position/generation feels the need to cheat to get even higher production.
Frisco500
They are garbage (cans)
AngelDiceClay
Every team steals signs. That’s not the issue. It’s the tipping off the batter’s with the trash cans and hidden signaling devices.
Dodger Dogg
Halo, what about the whistles and the real-time video feeds? Kurt Suzuki said the Nats heard the whistles during the entire WS!
zappaforprez
Manfred had a chance to restore integrity to the league, and he failed miserably. This is worse than the Steroid Era by a mile, yet less punishment? All members of that team for those 3 years should be banned from the HOF. I’m a lifelong Detroit resident and Verlander should be banned just the same. What a complete fraud. #1 person against cheating until he benefits from it. Strip the Series win and Altuve’s MVP, too. Here’s to hoping Mike Bolsinger’s lawsuit destroys that team even more. Can’t wait to see them get hit by pitches all season.
ripcookies
Verlander is funny. He’s been crying about juiced balls for 3 years, yet doesn’t see a problem with steal signs the way the astros did.
zappaforprez
Exactly. Imagine if he was pitching against Houston and was effected by it. Hypocrite of the year.
#00 Reds Fan
What about the 1989 world series?? Do the A’s win without McGuire and Canseco? Do they even make the playoffs?? That World series needs to be vacated and the Banner taken down. Right??
Paul Molitor
I can say this coming from a former manager myself… leave Dusty alone… he doesn’t deserve any of the hate
rognog
I’m shocked they didn’t run up to reporters, make a racist gesture and then scream I’m so f’n glad we stole signs.
hiflew
They might as well just roll with it and accept the role of villains. No one is going to believe their apologies are sincere anyway. So they need to become like pro wrestling heels. Have Altuve and the other Latino players start wearing masks like Mexican wrestlers. Taunt the crowds on the road. Have their manager go out and distract the umpires so they can blatantly cheat. I’d watch that. What do they have to lose at this point?
Four4fore
“Win when can, lose when you must, but always cheat”. – Jesse “the body” Ventura
bobtillman
So let me ask everybody a question. You mean to tell me that not ONE of all those folks working in the MLB office, many of whom are the Harvard/Yale/Princeton types, didn’t realize that the increased level of technology would lend itself to what the Astros did?
Sorry, that’s categorically silly. Either they’re beyond-belief stupid (which I don’t believe) or they just didn’t give a s**t (much more likely). Sure they published some guidelines, which were vague enough that nobody considered them seriously. So MLB itself deserves some of the blame for this.
BobbyDynamite
This is why it would be dumb to keep the rules as they are currently written. As cameras and communication devices get smaller and harder to detect, is it going to get easier or harder for MLB to enforce its prohibition on real-time use of electronics?
It will be very close to impossible, and teams will exploit MLB’s inability to police the situation.
On the other hand, MLB could modernize the rules, accept all forms of video, recording, and electronic comms, and now there’s nothing to enforce on this front. It simply opens up a new theatre of in-game warfare between the two teams.
clubber_lang84
Blah blah blah, same article new day. Move on
Frisco500
You’re punch drunk Clubber. The players responses and comments make this a very new article. In a still evolving situation.
ThePentaverate
It gets taps and clicks. The narrative they’ve created pays the bills.
extreme113
I find it funny that Manfred exonerated the guy he works for.
rondon
“At a point, you kind of see where it’s coming from, but you really don’t know how everybody feels about it.” Jeez, Reddick. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know how you’d feel if it happened to you. Get real.
Strike Four
Reddick comes off like such a cocky pos every time he talks about this.
ThePentaverate
Except Reddick didn’t cheat in 2017 (at least according to the data) so I can understand why he’s a little jaded at this point. He sounds like he’s taking one for the team every time he talks.
TradeBait
Lowest SO’s, highest OBP, best RBI/RISP – nah, nothing to see there. Nobody with a brain is buying what they are selling and an apology was not really offered. Hope the short term gain and asterisk was worth it to them because the rest of the baseball world knows better.
cubfanforever
Anyone else think the first Astro to step up to the plate in the season opener gets drilled?
BobbyDynamite
I doubt it. The players themselves are more mature about this than the average member of the twitter mob that is demanding or at least hoping for it to happen.
Some pitcher(s) will eventually do it during the regular season, but the first batter of Opening Day, unlikely. MLB and the Astros have plenty of ways of responding if it should become a trend.
Strike Four
You keep saying “twitter mob” but theres on-record comments made by dozens upon dozens of current MLB regulars and superstars about how disgusted they are with them.
MLB should step in and lifetime ban all the hitters who used the system. Period.
Only trash lies to defend trash
ThePentaverate
I hope so. It will raise Springer’s OBP even higher. Then you drill Bregman, then Altuve. Then Brantley steps up to the plate with the bases loaded, but he wasn’t part of the 2017 team, so you can’t drill him because that wouldn’t be very nice.
4-0 in the top of the 1st before you start drilling people (Correa is up next) again.
#00 Reds Fan
If we are banning cheaters does that include PED users?
BobbyDynamite
yeah, and pitchers who use pine tar + other sticky substances?
BobbyDynamite
The Astros were misguided in apologizing in the first place. The bloodthirsty twitter mob is having too much fun making pious pronouncements about “cheating” to even consider forgiving the team, so why bother?
They’d have been better off pointing out that the rule they broke, similar to the prohibition on pine tar and other ‘sticky stuff’ for pitchers, was rarely respected around the league as it’s behind the times. The Astros should be advocating for MLB to realize it’s the 21st century and formally accept what teams have already been doing with regard to in-game, real-time use of technology.
Oh, and MLB should formally allow pitchers to use pine tar, same as it does for hitters. That is another matter, but the principle is the same: Most players think it’s acceptable, which is why you don’t see umpires inspecting gloves every game. Just update the rules to square with the reality of what most players consider fair.
Strike Four
You sound so delusional. What the Astros did is not what all other teams did, that’s why all other teams are THIS angry at them. The Astros were the ONLY team doing this. This is a fact until proven with hard evidence otherwise. Stop trying to affix a narrative to something just to take the spotlight off the one team who cheated.
madmanTX
The astros weren’t apologizing, they were telling us all to move on and let them play in peace.it was a complete joke. I hope they enjoy getting beaned a lot. And they deserve it. People will never forget this. PS crane needs to sell the team. Horrible owner who was a cheapskate when he bought the team, arrogant to fans who complained and now won’t accept any responsibility. Pathetic.
StreakingBlue
I don’t want beaning because that’s childish, but get the point. I wish baseball would have addressed this whole cheating issue by stripping the title. That will make it hurt more then beaning.
Frisco500
Beaning is childish? Tell that to Bob Gibson. It has always been a big part of the game. It used to be the main way for players to police and regulate. And the way to own and dominate a certain side of the plate.
StreakingBlue
Childish for this situation pointless. For one the Dodgers don’t play Astros, and two you aren’t going to hit everyone in lineup.
Strike Four
I’d like to hear how the Twins, Mets and Blue Jays teams are dealing with having three players who benefitted from cheating in Gonzalez, Marisnick and Fisher.
Gotta love Tony Kemp coming out and saying he was offered to use the system but turned it down. Also, that’s totally why he got traded to the Cubs too, bunch of bullies on that Trashstros team. Ban all 13 hitters from 2017 who cheated for life.
goastros123
That’s not why he was traded but ok.
Rayland#1
No players suspended? Another mistake by the head of the Owners Association.
seafordraven
He’s scared of the players association.
WideWorldofSports
Listen the fact that a lot of you are saying “well x team did it too” shows that most of you still have an advance pass first grade. When you get caught own up, be sincere, live the consequences.
WideWorldofSports
Listen the fact that a lot of you are saying “well x team did it too” shows that most of you still have an advance pass first grade. When you get caught own up, be sincere, live the consequences.
Rallyshirt
Cover Ups 101, how they work
Step 1 – Get everyone talking about what you want them to.
Step 2 – Add insult and intrigue to further fuel discussions of Step 1.
Step 3 – Create as many possibilities as you can to keep people talking.
goastros123
They could’ve at least pretended to be sorry.
erauber
Crane should be forced to sell. He alone is destroying the credibility of the league.
He needs a new PR department too, good lord
rawbar
Interesting. Hasn’t MLB forced owners to sell in the past in “the best interests of baseball”?
nrd1138
Players apologies translation: ‘Please do not plunk me when I come up to bat’.
Though I wonder how MLB will reconcile the pitcher 3 batter minimum when the pitcher is clearly plunking every Astros player he sees?
humphrey x boegarts
A fair punishment would be Astros get zero home games in 2020.
ThePentaverate
Splits say they’d still dominate.
rawbar
Revenue says they’d take a hit.
humphrey x boegarts
They would get boo’d every game and by season’s end may genuinely start to feel some of that “remorse”
DTD_ATL
The more I hear from the organization the more pissed I get. At first, I was ready for this to just go away but it just seems like no one in the organization really cares that they flat out cheated. I seriously doubt they’re the only team to do something like this though. And no, that’s not me giving them a pass.
jekporkins
The way this has exploded I believe the only solution is to take away the championship. Just don’t give it to anyone. That will crush the team and teach about consequences.
AtlSoxFan
Manfred issues a report saying that, among the other issues, the astros had this inappropriate horrible culture top to bottom.
Just looking at the reports coming out, or the othe scandals of varying degree in the past few seasons… I believe him.
Can’t Manfred invoke the right to penalize for conduct inherently detrimental to the game?
Culture comes from the top down. Period. Remedy? Hold a MLB-Controlled auction for the astros franchise. The selected high bid by opening day wins. Whatever proceeds come in go to the old ownership, minus compensating any playoff teams that lost to Houston in the years in dispite for lost revenue that may or may not have been achieved by later postseason rounds.
That resets the culture.
Dodger Dogg
Listen to Crane’s own words. His moral compass is pointing in the wrong direction. Is it now much of a surprise how the Astros ended up in the trash can?
rawbar
Based on the press conference, I’m not sure Crane even has a moral compass.
InvalidUserID 2
Made things worse, in my opinion.
Ohtani-san
This team must be mercilessly boo’d, in every single away game, every stadium, all season long.
ThePentaverate
And loved. There’s still lots of love to give them too. It’s there deep down in our hearts.
Javia
Drunks hang with drunks. Criminals spend their time with other criminals. Cheaters support and defend cheaters. I think your unwavering support and defense of the Astros says more about you than it does about them Pentaverate.
ThePentaverate
I’m a fan. What can I say? I don’t think I’m a criminal, I think they’re idiots for cheating (they didn’t have to and still were a great team), and I don’t drink much but when I do I prefer a Lagavulin 16 Year. What about you?
Javia
Talisker 10yr. Or Glenmorangie Port Wood finish.
ThePentaverate
Solid. We might be better friends than I originally thought.
Dodger Dogg
If the Players Union guaranteed Manfred that they wouldn’t step in, thus allowing the tardy commish to punish the Astros, we’d see the Corpus Christi Hooks playing at Minute Maid Park during 2020. Would that really be a bad thing, Astros fans? If you want this to go away ASAP, this is a drastic solution, as well as vacating the championship…otherwise, take it and don’t complain, just like the Astros will have to do.
shortytallz
you mean the SugarLand Skeeters
Russianblue35
Misguided Astro fans trying to deflect again. The whole league cant stand the Astros. The stink on that team will never be washed off
shortytallz
Take their tainted title.
ThePentaverate
Shorty… Serious question for anyone like you who can reference the Sugarland Skeeters. Do you think they cheated in the World Series?
Full disclosure… I figured they did until I heard Correa yesterday. Now I really doubt they did.
Rallyshirt
My wish to MLB:
To all teams, to all players, coaches and fans, beat the Astros. Beat them badly. Practice harder, work together and whale on them. Don’t think you can get out of this Detroit and Baltimore, you gotta beat these guys too. It’s time.
ThePentaverate
Finally, a solid comment. Everyone else wants to see them lose their WS and get banned for life. You, fine sir or madam, seem to actually care about the game.
Your comment would be about the only way to truly get payback for everyone who is still raging over this. I don’t think it will be easy to do this season. They’re still a VERY dangerous team and their desire to prove themselves will be just as strong as your desire to see them get beat. But good luck to you all the same.
Edelapena08
The Houston Asteriiiisskksss…..the scandal will never be forgotten. 2017 Astros will forever not deserve the world title, will always have that stigma behind them until they leave that team and win with another team. Sorry, no punishment besides stripping them of title or at least fine them half the WS earnings will suffice.
ThePentaverate
It feels good to get it out doesn’t it? It’s the first step to healing. Beat them. It will make you feel even better.
JustCheckingIn
How can anyone say the black Sox is worse than this?
Houston WON a World Series and cheated for THREE YEARS. The black Sox lost 1 World Series
The reality is this punishment should have been way harsher and it wasn’t. Manfred wanted to bury this, clearly. It’s not going away
Unclenolanrules
The Black Sox also lived in a different time. Most of themade nothing, had jobs in the off season, many were hard labor type jobs. They didn’t have it nearly as good as even the lowest paid major leaguer does now. Poverty breaks down moral barriers.
LetThereBeLux
If the Astros would donate their world series winnings shares to charity it would go a long way in the minds of the fans and the players and the media that they are sincere in their remorse.
LetThereBeLux
Trouble is that there is no regret so there is no remorse because they don’t think they are guilty of anything
cawa
Should have kick them out of the league.A much deserve life sentence.
Unclenolanrules
Dear Mr. Crane/Astros Players,
I am 44. I have been a fan of the Astros since I was 4. That is 40 years.
Your handling of the cheating scandal has been atrocious. Bregman and Altuve came off like elementary school children forced to apologize for taking someone’s toy.
Mr. Crane, not only did NOT distinguish himself yesterday. For someone so rich and successful in the business world, your handling of this scandal makes me wonder who you had to steal from to get it.
Going back to Roberto Osuna trade, the team has handled every negative story with a level of arrogance and detachment from reality that it amazes me. Your PR firm should be sent packing.
After the presser yesterday, so should you, Mr. Crane. You are an incompetent owner, and an arrogant bastard. You came off as bad as Richard Nixon after Watergate. At the very least you should be suspended just like your underlings.
Dodging questions and being an arrogant prick to the media is very stupid, and makes the team look more guilty than before.
I waited most of my life for a World Series victory by the Astros, and at this juncture, the team has taken that away.
“Everybody does it” is what Richard Nixon said to justify breaking into the Watergate hotel and bugging the offices.
Not unlike the Astros, Nixon did not have to conduct such an operation, having won in 1972 by one of the bigger landslides in the country’s history.
The players, if they had any honor, would voluntarily retire. They will be nothing but a lightning rod of controversy the rest of their careers.
The lack of contrition exhibited by the entire organization is the real scandal now. All of you are responsible for this, none of you have helped to assuage the situation, only inflamed it.
None of you deserve a second chance at this point in time. Your team is tainted, like rotting meat. All you do is smell worse day by day. This is usually the happiest time of my year, baseball getting going, spring training finally here.
Can’t say that this year because you cannot seem to understand that you come off like an entitled jerk. Not that I really expect anything less from a rich boy, but that is beside the point.
Obviously, you all feel like you earned your title instead of stole it. Maybe you did. Come to think of it, no, none of you did.
The fact that no one spoke up shows how toxic the unwritten rules of the clubhouse are.
What procedures have you put in place for players to complain of wrongdoing by other players? REAL professionals do that when bad things happen.
Why do you all dodge the buzzer questions? Just how clueless can you be with these canned answers, some of which clearly said with contempt, which only make you all look guilty as hell?
You broke rules. The cheating schemes alone did not phase me nearly as much as the response by the team, as well as the league. The commissioner needs to go, you need to go. The Players Union leadership needs to go. Their response reminds me of when police unions defend murderous cops.
You look worse than all of them. You own the fucking team, and as a LEADER of the organization, you are RESPONSIBLE for the actions of your employees and players. As such, grow a pair, act like a man, and own up to this.
Dealing with happy good times is not the test of a leader. Dealing with difficult times, problems, that is the test of a leader.
You failed. Your players, have failed.
Not only that, you make it worse. Like a person who keeps picking at a scab and expects the wound to heal magically.
You don’t have magic. You clearly don’t even have any common sense either.
As the season approaches, I now face a decision on whether or not to continue to be a fan of the current incarnation of this team. I cannot be the only one.
I lean towards no. At this point I wish the league would either suspend all of you, or put the team in recievership and take your toys away. You act like a spoiled child, you should be treated like a spoiled child.
So either be a man about this or go back to shipping vibrators and cock rings or whatever it is you did before. The level of disappointment is staggering.
I would apologize for being crude in this correspondence, but you neither deserve that courtesy nor do you deserve anything at this time, other than outright contempt.
Stop picking at scabs.
jmac2121
They stole an MVP from Judge, stole a championship from the Dodgers, stole a parade from the fans, stole the careers and livelihoods if fellow players and stole the integrity of the game. On the other hand, they ruined their credibility, ruined their belief in ability and ruined their own integrity. Careers are now an embarrassment, and they should never see the Hall of Fame! Houston Asterisks for life…as a fan I’m pissed at this entire organization. I hope to see a different Astro batter be hit by an opposing pitcher every game all season long. MLB can try to intervene but what umpire can justify throwing out an opposing pitcher to the games fan base? The unwritten rules of baseball are coming…I can hear the chin music now…
rawbar
I am not sure I agree with tossing at their players every game, but I sure hope the fans in opposing stadiums will express themselves.
Every time he steps to the plate in an opposing stadium, Altuve should hear the chant “MV CHEAT”.
Cheetos are a snack.
Cheatstros are a team.
bigmike0424
Jim Crane comment in interview was beyond stupid but what did you expect when he says that when Spring training coming around to have a meeting & as group apologize which really didn’t work in their favor as came off as rehearse..
It obviously to anyone that best thing they could gone about it was plead the fifth to every cheating question since their not going to answer it truthfully..
Rallyshirt
Here’s what technology can do:
A remote from anywhere in or around the ballpark could send a radio frequency to trigger a vibration node anywhere on the player’s body through a garment. It could even be his undies.
A phone app could do something similar but that could be traceable.
I’m not so concerned about organizations doing this going forward as the stadiums will now have added security measures, but this could be done by anyone, anywhere within range of the player who has access to a live broadcast or a magnified angle to see the catcher signs.
Sad to say, but I feel the days of signaling between the catcher and pitcher are gone. There are many ways to communicate without, but the fans will never know that part of the game when they know what pitch is coming.
Rallyshirt
Interesting solutions could be:
A honed scrambler which focuses on the home plate area. This would disable RF from reaching a receiver. This could be a feature added to the robot ump seeing that would be aimed in the precise area.
A detector in the dugout where batters enter the on deck area.
BlueSkies_LA
Cheating with technology doesn’t need to be even this complicated. It can all be done completely off the shelf. Simply strap a smartwatch to any part of the body, set it to vibrate-only mode, and send it a text message. Completely undetectable. The solution isn’t technical either. Players need to know they are subject to random inspections for illegal devices, just as they are now randomly tested for PEDs. The penalties for violations have to be similarly steep.
Rallyshirt
Technically, a smartwatch or any phone using texting or messaging by any means is detectable or could be traced back in an investigation. I suppose you could use a hacked phone or watch (no id) and then throw it away after the game.
An RF device is more reliable and faster but could be frequency jammed, or even detected with probably a military grade interceptor.
Rallyshirt
And let’s not forget chip implants. The solution or prevention needs to be technical. I don’t think random searches will work.
BlueSkies_LA
Your assumption is a need to catch cheaters after the fact, but this didn’t work for PEDs and it won’t work now. What was required to get PEDs under control, and is needed now to head off further cheating with technology, is random inspection coupled with suspensions for violators. Wand a few players selected randomly before games and suspend anyone caught with an illegal device for 100 games. That message will be heard.
RobBoSoxNMariners
Some of you fans are absurd. You have delusional thoughts that your teams are so innocent. It’s pathetic. You blast other people’s teams for cheating because they got caught and your team didn’t, and you attack the fans of the cheating teams as if it’s somehow our fault! You know what’s worse than the argument “all teams cheat”? Turning your senses off so you can feel higher and mightier than another person whose team cheated and got caught. You know who you are. Just do some self improvements.. be honest with yourself at least. I can’t believe the attacks and little child behavior in this comments over millionaires cheating. Some of y’all will search high and low for a reason to hurt someone else while raising yourselves up to some imaginary pedestal. Pathetic!
BlueSkies_LA
Well you pinned my high and mighty detector.
HighHardOne
Drill ’em with the High Hard One!
Rallyshirt
Carlos Correa interview with Ken Rosenthal
Fire completely off the chain
youtu.be/KjYEJ8XSXto
ThePentaverate
You’re a smart commenter here. Honest question… did Correa’s comments change your opinion about Altuve at all?
Rallyshirt
I have to say no. And even if Altuve shows the tattoo and it is really bad, I don’t believe that evidence gets him off the hook.
I also think more attention needs to be placed on the Former Astro players who joined other teams and are currently on their roster. Here’s an interview which portrays an interesting take of what it’s like being a pitcher and welcoming a former ASTRO pitcher now to the team.
youtu.be/9NPiwIU7fkc
The remark I like the most, paraphrasing “…pitchers all have friends on other teams, and they sat through the Banging and watched and did nothing…”
turbosmith9
Astros can suck one.. anyone who defends them is some shape or form can also suck one.. end of discussion.. I’m with the guys saying ok Astros pitchers reveal your pitch to everyone before you throw it and see what happens.. if there is no competitive edge to this then what’s the problem?
n2northsiders
It’s going to be interesting to see what the Astro’s stats are at the end of the year. My guess is there will be some significant regression. They will also shatter the record for hit batsman. I no longer have any respect for the organization. They compromised the integrity of the game. If it were up to me, the entire staff would receive a lifetime ban from the game. Those most hurt by their inexcusable actions are the kids that idolize these players.
Gmg
Astros will be competing for a long time, rubbing in everyone’s faces that cheating is ok, just have to do it big time.
In my opinion, punishment should have limited they’re chances of success in the short, mid and long term.