Former Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch were among the most successful in baseball in their positions, but their legacies have been tarnished over the past few weeks. Almost a month ago, Major League Baseball suspended the pair for a year apiece for their roles in a 2017 sign-stealing scandal that has dominated headlines in recent weeks. In an effort to distance themselves from Luhnow and Hinch, the Astros fired both of them shortly after MLB banned the two for the 2020 campaign. The question now is whether either will return to their previous jobs with other teams when their suspensions end.
The Astros hired Luhnow, a former Cardinals executive, as their GM heading into the 2012 season. The club endured a couple incredibly lean years thereafter, winning 50-some games in Luhnow’s first two seasons, before beginning an upward climb that culminated in three straight 100-win campaigns from 2017-19. The Astros won their first-ever championship and a couple AL pennants in that three-year span, but now the legitimacy of that run is in question. Luhnow, per a report from the Wall Street Journal on Friday, may have been complicit in a sign-stealing scheme called “Codebreaker.”
While Luhnow denied having a role in “Codebreaker”, commissioner Rob Manfred disagreed, saying that “there is more than sufficient evidence to support a conclusion that you knew—and overwhelming evidence that you should have known—that the Astros maintained a sign-stealing program that violated MLB’s rules.”
Hinch, meanwhile, has come off as more contrite than Luhnow. He has owned up to the fact that the Astros committed wrongdoing on his watch. That should help Hinch’s cause if he attempts to become a manager again. It’ll have to be with another team, though. The Rubicon has been crossed in Houston, where he won’t get his old job back. The same applies to Luhnow. But do you expect another team to hire either of them sometime after their suspensions expire?
(Luhnow poll for app users)
(Hinch poll for app users)
“New Details Emerge On Astros Sign-Stealing Scandal”
mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/new-details-emerge-on-a…
Discuss.
Also, I just want to say it one more time…… It is freaking outrageous that comments are disabled on the MLBTR Houston Astros cheating article where it is revealed that the Astros were also cheating on the road and had an entire department that they referred to as their “dark arts sign stealing department”
It doesn’t say that. “Codebreaker” was just guys watching video and decoding signs, and some kind of spreadsheet that helped them do it more efficiently. That is not illegal, and all teams do it. The illegal part is relaying signs in real time during a game.
@BKS It doesn’t say what???
It says exactly that
Stop trying to push this stuff down
If you don’t believe it, go read the article again
Code breaker, dark arts, Luhnow would be shown the progress mid game! You’re so full of it
Yeah I’m trying to figure out what part he’s having trouble putting together. Live decoding was going on and an Excel spreadsheet with advanced algorithms built in was created so that whoever was sitting at the decoding station behind the dugout could punch in a sign and receive the resulting pitch and location in real time which would be passed on into the dugout. Or passed directly to home plate using a buzzer or another electronic.
@BKS
You are full of crap
geez dude, that article doesn’t say that or even imply that. Are you lying on purpose or are you just another buthurt Yankee or Dodger fan trying to find excuses for your loser teams?
This guys been the polar opposite of Astros fans trying to justify it. Just pushing garbage no matter what and making stuff up to try and somehow support their argument.
100 percent let’s just call it what it is these guys were buzzer wearing trash can beating cheaters the worst in mlb history
I’m glad they disabled the comments, but now you all will just use this thread as a substitute. The penalties have been handed down, it’s time to move on from this. But some of you are so obsessed over it you’re probably losing sleep at night. So go ahead and vent and whine some more if it helps you.
More wrongdoing = more punishment. Still waiting for a postseason ban. I don’t care about any of the teams involved. I just think the league should make an example of them so nothing like this ever happens again.
No way a post-season ban will ever be approved for a franchise. MLB would lose a lot of money from that fan base( one of the biggest cities in America) and let’s be real here, all Sports league care about is money. Had it not of been a PR problem and teams complaining, it likely would have been swept under the rug.
No, we don’t like being lied to by the commish because he was too much of a pu**y to properly punish the teams. He straight up lied about what was found to make it seem lesser
Gtfo pretending you’re on your high horse”just move on”
But if someone says “just give the title back” you change your tune mighty fast. Lmfao all you Houston fans are from the same cloth as your franchise
The link states they cheated at home and on the road, but lacks any real details. Did they use a primitive trash can banging at home and buzzers on the road? Seems highly unlikely. Are there any facts on how they cheated on the road or is it just click bait?
In my experience the Wall Street journal is a pretty reliable publication that does not purvey clickbait. On the spectrum of media and social media from which the rumors on this site are drawn, That would rate pretty highly on the reliability side of the scale in my book.
I didn’t really see a lack of detail in the article at all. The allegations were extremely specific to the point that you couldn’t really make it up.
@beisbolista So how did they cheat on the road? From all sources, the trash banging was always done at home. Were they signals relayed to the hitters on the road?
There is no evidence that the trash can banging lasted longer than a very short time. The pitchers caught on to that tactic very quickly and the Astros shifted to other signaling mechanisms
They were stealing signs! Signs don’t change because you’re at home
They had a road system in 2017 and 2018, and Hinch refused the cookie tossed by Verducci to say they didn’t cheat in 2019
Go look at the video linked below. There’s no f’n doubt they cheated every year every game from sometime in 2017 thru the 2019 World Series
Closing those comments MLBTR is weak AF
You mean no evidence other than the hours of videos from games from throughout the entire 2017 season in which the trash can banging is plainly audible?
Anyone can decode the signs sitting at home. Signs do not change much between teams if no one is on base or a runner is on first or third. You cannot see thees vantage points You cannot see the catcher’s signs unless you are on 2nd base or if you are using a video feed. It is only when a runner is on 2nd that multiple signs are given. All teams use past tendencies from past games to help interpret the signs while on 2nd base, but not all teams use video to steal the signs. The MLB rule book says you can steal signs. However, you cannot use video to steal signs, otherwise teams would use make it more complicate on what pitch is coming. It will be interesting to see if teams try different methods like using multiple signals like a runner is on 2nd at all times to hide signals when playing teams like the Astros or Red Sox.
There’s a lot of evidence lol
@beisbista it lasted long enough. And how many pitchers actually caught on? If enough caught on they would of been caught then. The only video I saw was Danny Farquhar catching on.
Well scooter, your team STILL isn’t going to get any titles out of it so dry your little eyes and pull up your big boy pants.
Dude ur brutal this is the worst for the baseball sorry it’s your team but these guys should not be in the league next year
For baseball * haha so angry misspelling
How does he know? Let’s not kill the messenger. The Wall Street Journal article was as specific as it could be, with the information released. Beisbolista commented on the article. He did not travel to Houston and interview Altuve and other Astros about the methods used.
Relax, troll.
Dodgers should have that World Series
Yankees have been cheating for many years.
You have zero evidence of this, while Houston has been investigated and punished by the commish
In fact, Houston ended NYY season 3 of the last 5 years, AND NEW YORK CHEATED!?
You’re such a homer
For what it’s worth, the athletic’s article that discussed the red sox video room usage also mentioned it was quoting multiple former yankees players as confirming that NY had players going to the video room in at least 2015, 2016, 2017, and likely other seasons.
That’s neither here nor there, however, as other teams beyond the yankees, red sox, and astros have also had credible accounts/allegations levied against them.
That clears it up then. You’re a buthurt YANKEE fan. You might have been a buhurt Dodger fan but then, they have more class than you seem to possess.
I think you’re the emotional one here
The funny thing is, any MLB fan could be behind that type of reaction. Your reaction only comes from the scumbag Astro fans. I’m not gonna generalize your whole fanbase because some are accepting the truth, and they feel bad– and as fans we feel bad for them too. It is not their fault. But the obnoxious type of Astros fans are in denial and trying to offset the blame on other teams. Where do you see yourself ?
Exactly !!
If you take into consideration the PEDs scandal and Clemons and Pettitte and others, then yeah, they cheated too.
“madmanTX” here to deflect some blame from his TX team by mentioning a 20 year old team. For the thousandth time– the steroid era had steroid using players on all teams. Clemens was pitching to roided up players. Bonds was hitting against roided up pitchers they still couldnt stop him. Plus, so many players have came out and said this is wayyyyyyyyyy worse than steroids. The latest news shows precisely why, that the cheating was endorsed and allowed by the front office
Wow, madman. You do understand you just brought up 2 Astros players and pointed out they were steroid cheats, right?
@Questionable_Source
NIce..
Says who?
Bolista, I read it n it’s scary thing, n those guys shot them selves in the foot. Stupid men making bad decisions ruined their careers. Please don’t tell me AJ broke monitors a couple times, this has gone in forbyrs n really we don’t know why he broke the monitors could’ve been bad plays or Ump calls. He’s the only one who knows n he went along with everything for a few yrs. Cora too, although he wasn’t there for the beginning.
Agreed. It sounds like Alex Cora was not there for the beginning of the sign stealing dark arts department so they call it, but according to Manfred’s report Cora masterminded many of the tactics that made the Astros successful in 2017 and beyond.
Aka manfred also lied in his report
Yay for having liars throughout MLB protecting other liars
Boy, what other American field does that sound familiar right now?
It’s the entire circumference of the Astros’ willingness to “Do whatever it takes” to win and their denial of cheating that should bother every baseball fan. When the allegations came out Hinch denied everything. Luhnow knew what was going on and he continued to promote this ideology of “Win at all costs” in the clubhouse.
All the Astros players knew what they were doing was against MLB policy and they continued to do it until they got caught.
Astros should vacate their championship.
They’re both done and rightfully so
I’m not surprised by the majority of either polls. Luhnow obviously comes off as a psychopath without a conscience willing to do anything possible. to win. Hinch is also guilty but at least has come off as contrite and capable of making amends.
I deadass made an account to say I find it absurd that people think AJ Hinch should work again and Jeffrey Lunhow shouldn’t. I personally think neither of them should. However it’s outrageous to me that the polls are split on Hinch but lunhow is a deff no smh.
I agree with you completely. I also think it’s outrageous that these two guys were scapegoated when so many others (staff and players) were so very responsible. For no players to get any penalties at all is truly unbelievable and an insult to the entire baseball community.
Make no mistake about it. For the players involved the cheating was 100% worth it.
Those two are “scapegoated” because they were in charge!
Lunhow a scapegoat? are you crazy?
I agree. They are both culpable.
I don’t believe either should be in MLB again. I have read that Hinch was the one that would destroy the monitor so they couldn’t steal the signs. It is cowardly of the players to allow Hinch to take the fall while they remain in silence. It is ironic that the only one that did anything to stop it was punished and the players that cheated receive no punishment. I know baseball granted the players immunity to get easy answers rather than actually trying to investigate, but still seems wrong that they protect the cheaters. Another scandal completely mishandled by MLB.
I agree with everything above and I’m glad I commented to get even more opinions to expand mine. This is why baseball is great and this scandal hurts me to my core for ruining and borderline erasing 3 years of history.
matty – “this scandal hurts me to my core”
Really? That’s drastic unless you’re personally and directly affected by the Astros cheating.
Some of us really love baseball this does hurt
This does not erase anything. If it did, we would also need to erase 1951 since the Giants were illegally stealing signs at the Polo Grounds. And I guess you will want Willie Mays removed from the Hall of Fame since he may have benefited from sign stealing.
No one loves baseball more than me, Troy. But “hurts me to my core”? That’s a little dramatic for a game we all love but watch for entertainment.
“No one loves baseball more than me.” Sounds like you’re the one being a tad dramatic to me, and using your love of the game to dictate how someone else feels or should feel is pretty weak.
That’s stupid. If you read the string, I was responding to Troy’s comment. I assume everyone on here loves baseball or they would be doing something else. To be “hurt to the core” by people you don’t know involved in a form of entertainment is over-dramatic.
The poll doesn’t say “should,” it says “will.” While I agree with you, you’re answering a question that wasn’t asked.
If Luhnow had any ethical compass he would be a hall of fame exec. Any team that hires him deserves the BS that comes with him.
Check out this absolutely amazing slow-mo video of Astros catcher Robinson Chirinos in the World Series having an electronic device literally fall off his bat leaving tape behind. He goes out of his way to recover and hide both items from the umpire. youtu.be/zAIqyPIv-q8
Has MLBTR covered this video yet? If not, why hasn’t it been covered yet? Do we have to wait for Jeff Passan to tweet about it?
lol, how clumsy he was!
That’s by far the most incriminating video yet
Wood isn’t metallic folks, and doesn’t stick to the tip of the glove magically
Cheating a-holes
Terrible video, at least twice as long as it needs to be, but it is fairly incriminating. Was definitely something hidden in the end of that bat.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Hey Einstone, why would he TAPE AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE TO HIS BAT?
Think for a moment, if you’re capable, of how ridiculous that notion is.
It’s almost as ridiculous as defending people who are already convicted.
He had a buzzing device at the tip top of his bat. So the entire bat would buzz and his jersey wouldn’t
Why are you pretending to be surprised is the better question. But we all know it’s because you’re an in denial Houston fan
Why can you not help yourself, man? This is the garbage you spew. Why would they keep a buzzer on their bat? They litterally drop it right in front of the catcher and umpire. Use your head. Don’t just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks when it comes to this. Have a little self integrity.
Beisbolista is truly obsessed with this. His life revolves around it. Not mine. I’m ready for some 2020 baseball to begin.
He can’t keep it to himself because he, like all of us, have an opinion. Popular or not it’s an opinion. If you did a search you will see back in November there was a close-up to something that was stuck on tape being held by Chirinos.
This may be a foreign concept to you Goat but there’s something called tolerance. Maybe learn to have some.
beisbolista:
This is a load of crap. A buzzer would be useless in the end of the bat. The home-plate ump and catcher are as likely to notice it operating as the batter.
It is much more likely it was a sensor tracking parameters during the swing, or a weight for customizing bat balance.
That video doesn’t answer any questions
Plate ump and catcher would not necessarily notice something they are not looking for. Wrong to assume they’d see it. Especially if taped with the same color as the bat.
Thank you for agreeing with me that something extremely illegal was on that bat.
MLB Rules:
3.02 The Bat
(a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. THE BAT SHALL BE ONE SOLID PIECE OF WOOD.
(b) Cupped Bats. An indentation in the end of the bat up to 1¼ inches in depth is permitted and may be no wider than two inches and no less than one inch in diameter. The indentation must be curved WITH NO FOREIGN SUBSTANCE ADDED.
Wtf
First you’re not allowed to HAVE ANYTHING ON YOUR BAT mid game that’s electronic
In the World Series, he was def just trying to track his swing for the next series, right?
Not like a buzz in the bat would be easily felt while a buzz in your jersey may be missed. It was clearly at the tip of the bat and no where near the ump
You Houston fans suck at this
His free agent market was very slow. Teams probably didn’t believe his numbers.
The Twins got burned big time on Marwin. And based on that graph Springer loved the trash can too. I wonder how his market shakes out.
why would anyone put a buzzer on a bat.
His batting average is .143 in the video. You cant hit .143 unless you have a buzzer on your bat. Next year anyone hitting .143 should be investigated.
That is his batting average in the World Series to that point. So what, several at bats max? What’s your point, that someone who is doing badly has no motivation to cheat and do better? Just an absurd comment.
Yeah why would a bad offensive player try to cheat to perform better!?!? Lol did you think that one thru Einstein?
Easier to feel than thru 3 layers of clothing? Imagine your bat vibrating once vs not at all. Not hard to figure out what that means….
@beisbolista, This is a very good video and thank you for your continued work.
Texas Rangers, how do you feel about signing this guy now?
Get some.
Which game / date was this? The video link no longer works
This one. youtu.be/zAIqyPIv-q8
Both should have been banned permanently, this whole ordeal is a disgrace to the sport and they should never have the opportunity to work for MLB again.
As punishment, for five seasons the Astros should be forced to change their name to the A**Holes and should choose a logo to match.
Your face?
Doesn’t matter what they’re called. Trying to change the past is asinine. 3 year postseason ban.
“New details emerge”
Which so manfred covered up the illicit actions in 2018, as well as pretending there was no road scheme
And Hinch is a lying scum bag even after being caught and fired!
How can anyone believe a word that comes from the Houston Org… or Manfred? He’s a bigger freakin liar than they are
If you read the previous article (the one that doesn’t allow comments), the whole cheating scenario comes across as some kind of occult conspiracy story. Operation: Codebreaker, a secret program meant to steal communication secrets and subdue the opposition, which included the use of deep black technology and “black arts.”
Well summarized
They need to suspend or ban the players. Whoever was involved needs to be banned from baseball.
and everyone needs to stop bringing up pete rose. He was a pedophile. That’s a fact. Not only should he stay banned but brutally beaten.
#takeawayWS2017fromthecheatingastros
Cohen – I’ve never heard that about Pete Rose but I would like to read it. Where can I find the facts on that?
It was literally just one unidentified person who claimed he did this in the 1970s, but only brought the info forward a few years ago. Rose says he did have a relationship with her while she was 16, which means she was of consenting age, while she claims she was 14. Why would she wait until the statute of limitations had clearly expired to bring this up? I’ll leave that to the imagination. Strikes me a lot like the accusations of Mike Fiers being a pedo; borne out of hatred for the player and what they did relating to baseball or some other personal grievance, vs. anything they actually did. If the relationship did indeed happen, that makes him creepy, but not a pedo. Plenty of creepy baseball players out there, and I’m sure there are plenty in the hall already.
Shows how uninformed you are
Rose admitted to betting on his team because the league had even more damning evidence on him…. back in the 80s…. he’s a pedo and baseball lied to you so your hero wouldn’t be fully tarnished
Must be tin foil hat day at the senior center. Ironic coming from a guy with “common sense” in his name.
Does anyone believe there weren’t buzzers? Furthermore, with the general lack of outrage across baseball, does any believe there aren’t a ton of cheaters doing something similar on many of the other teams?
Lack of outrage? More like the commissioner told no player to comment, and only a few have ignored him and done it
Alex Wood said he’d rather face a guy on PEDs than someone who knows what’s coming
No one outside of Houston has said “no biggie”
Of course there were other teams doing it. They will make an example of the Astros and Sox and sweep the rest under the rug so that the game can move on. The Astros were way too careless and that’s why there was so much evidence against them, once Fiers spoke up about it.
weighty assumptions being made here
They need to force Astros ownership to sell, period. This obviously goes all the way to the top although it hasn’t come out yet that ownership knew, they knew. I find it hard to believe all of this was flying under the radar of everyone in upper management and stayed between a couple of people. McCourts had to sell for being a holes, Sterling had to do it cuz he’s a racist a hole, and now Astros have to because of this. 2017 WS Title needs to be stripped and it’ll be a year without a WS winner. Anyone who defends the Astros after this is delusional. I still respect Astros fans as they had nothing to do with this, but please God do not defend cheaters and say everyone does it…there’s just no evidence anyone else (except 2018 Red Sox with Cora 2.0) did this. Sorry not sorry.
I think Crane should have to give up his dog for adoption too.
Wow, dude. Drama queen much?
This thread is full of drama queens. The lynch mob is out in force. Stripping away titles is a crazy idea. It’s history and it’s done.
Ok then let them have their title, but ban every hitter who benefitted, for life.
Black Sox 2.0
Crane brought in Lunhow and allowed that culture to foster. He also OK’d bringing in Osuna.
Silly – “there’s just no evidence anyone else (except 2018 Red Sox with Cora 2.0) did this.”
Where’s your evidence that the owners knew?
I have a tough time seeing how Hinch will manage again. Not sure what team owner would accept the PR baggage and distraction.
You’d be surprised how many white males who kiss the medias butts their entire lives will suddenly start seeing narratives by the press that they “deserve” a second chance (over a person of color who has NOT cheated ever in their careers).
Until sign-stealing,steroid-usage, etc. are punished with a lifetime ban from the game with all loss of benefits and elimination from HOF eligibility, this garbage will continue.
Sign stealing is 10000000x worse than steroids though.
If you hate steroids, then you love seeing Ken Griffey Jr’s career ruined by not taking them and staying hurt longer. Strange take.
Both should have lifetime bans, period.
Stench and the other guy should be banned for life, like Charlie Hustle.
Both will end up working for the Republican National Committee as campaign advisers.
F liberals
F liberals AND conservatives – both wings are on the same bird and that bird is trash
Jamie McCrook is our ambassador to France and Monaco. The very same McCrook that took the Dodgers to the brink of bankruptcy. She divorced Frank and was awarded over $100Million because she got “used to her lavish lifestyle”.
No matter how slimy you are, you can buy an ambassadorship right now. Go back and stick your head in the desert sand.
Off with their heads!!!
Analytics is to cheating what West Coast power surges are to steroids. Go Dodgers lol
The Astros signed Baker to a 1-year contract. So unless the Astros win a WS, Hinch might be back next year.
Dusty’s in his 70s.
Think that may have something to do with it?
Played in the same outfield as Hank Aaron. For SEVEN seasons!
@ Valkyrie Regardless, the Astros might be looking for a new manager next year. You think they wouldn’t consider Hinch?? That’s the point.
Hold a draft and let every team select a player from the Astros organization. Let them protect 25 players.
Ban both for life.
Honestly, what Luhnow and Hinch did is right up there or worse than what the Braves guys did to get banned. I can’t see how either of these guys have a major role in the MLB again.
This season is going to be very interesting. All of the Astros hitters who were apart of this have everything to prove, any fall off, whether related or not, is going to be connected to the sign stealing scandal. I hope they take crap at every away park all season.
*what Luhnow and Hinch AND ALL THE ASTROS HITTERS did
Bregman, Altuve, Beltran, Correa, Gurriel, Springer, McCann, Aoki, Reddick, Marwin, Gattis, Marisnick, Fisher = all should be banned for life. They are the ones who benefitted, they are the Black Sox 2.0 here, they are “The Trashstros 13” and they need to be taken to task WAY harder than they have been.
I keep seeing you bring up the black Sox. What about shoeless joe Jackson? no evidence he did anything.
It is absolutely worse than what the Braves did. The Braves cheated with the hope of maybe someday becoming successful in a remote future. The Astros successfully cheated right now and stole a World Series championship. Let’s not forget here the Braves got in trouble for how they handled international prospects. The only point of getting international prospects is to maybe someday when the World Series. What the Astros did was so much worse.
fug em both
Stay tuned for more “As the Worms Squirm”. So, where is the integrity challenged Cora hiding these days? Handing out relief supplies found squirreled away in a warehouse from the 2017 hurricane in Puerto Rico? How’d that happen, Alex?
Everyone screaming at Manfred for “covering this up” needs to understand that he isn’t covering up for the Astros. He is covering up for the entire league. If this gets pushed any further then he will be forced to expose every other team in baseball that was doing this, which I would argue is all of them. Nobody wants that. Now in regards to “Codebreaker” I read this as them collecting a database on teams sign usage. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A SCOUTING REPORT. It only becomes an issue when it’s relayed in real time.
I agree. I would not be surprised at all if most of the teams were doing this.
No other team was doing this to this extent though. That’s a crybaby Astros fan take.
You have zero evidence any team went to the lengths Boston and Houston did
Claiming otherwise is just building a BS excuse to ignore how bad the Astros conduct was. They nearly stole 2 titles! The black Sox LOST a single World Series.
Stop making crap up so your team looks better
Watching Hinch while he tried to take accountability he still tried not to by side stepping it. The guy certainly didnt come fully clean on his detailed knowledge of it.
When asked about the trash can banging going on in the dugout. He said at first he basically wasnt sure what it was. Then later when pressed again said yes and I didnt stop it.
These dugouts aren’t that big. This was blatant and I’m sure he was fully aware and didnt want to stop it from the beginning because they were winning. Guy should never manage another game of baseball in his life, disgraced the game from a position of leadership.
Your players and even a coach aren’t going to have this elaborate system of cheating and do it right in front of the manager without him knowing. This talk about him destroying a monitor I’m sure came after they didn’t win in frustration. I’d be pretty pissed if my hitters couldn’t hit a fastball when they know it’s coming.
Guy is a spineless joke.
I’m right there with you. I watched a few minutes of his interview last night and saw him asked about cheating in 2019 and using buzzers. He did not deny it. He was absolutely looking for a way to dodge the real answers.
Exactly, he should be banned for life, along with the 13 hitters who benefitted from the system. Scorch the league clean of these idiots and make an example of them.
Even though he was the victim in the computer-stealing conspiracy the fact he was involved tells the culture he brought to baseball.
*Lunhow
How does the hitting coach of the Astros during this time period, Dave Hudgens get away with nothing in penalties???
It’s easy to be a great hitting coach when your hitters know which pitches are coming!
I think it is a lot easier to see Hinch managing again than Luhnow being a GM. Yes, both were aware of what was going on. And if both ever work again they will be under intense scrutiny. Not sure any club is going to want that. But the level of scrutiny on Luhnow will be much greater given how a GM oversees all aspects of an organization, including the analytics department.
If this scandal shows us anything it is we really don’t know the limits of what analytics can do both legitimate and illegitimate. Hopefully it also serves as an impetus for change in baseball that limits the ability for teams to steal signs.
I don’t see how Hinch can manage again; too much bad press for any team putting him in the dugout in any capacity. Plus, by his own admission he did not exemplify good leadership qualities of stopping what he believed to be wrong. More likely a front office type role than an on-field leader.
Socalbum, I generally agree with you; but, it’s amazing what public contrition (no matter if it’s real or fake), admitting mistakes and sharing how those mistakes help him to learn to be a better leader, and a few years can do to public outrage over previous poor behaviour like we’ve seen in this case. I personally believe that he WILL manage again; however, I’m still not sure on whether he SHOULD manage again.
The question for me is how do you not go after the players? This is nonsense.
mistake made when they granted player immunity so they could get their cooperation in investigation.
Exactly, and they have names too: Bregman, Altuve, Beltran, Correa, Gurriel, Springer, McCann, Aoki, Reddick, Marwin, Gattis, Marisnick and Fisher all should be banned for life, just like Shoeless Joe is.
Over. All players involved, their careers should be over, too, especially after the latest revelations.
Look at Marwin Gonzalez’s baseball reference page
baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzama01.shtml
Yeah, 2017 doesn’t look like a year where he knew what was coming, does it? SMH
What a joke. Throw batteries at Marwin the cheater next time you go to a Twins game.
He magically became 45% better than any other year of his career, and just that one year
But they weren’t cheating! Lmfao
And ldiots feel Pete Rose should still be banned. He bet on his team to win. Never to lose. Get over it. Cheaters are so much worse than gamblers. Manfred is disgusting with his cover up. Red Sox will get a hand slap.
cheaters are worse than gamblers….yeah ok
gambling is corrosive but cheating destroys
You are so naive If you think that’s all he did
The league specifically covered up more for him. He was a pedo. Stop fighting for a pedo. It’s a bad look
Both should be banned for life. Henry Aaron is right.
Lunhow’s excuse was that as an executive he did not read his emails. So at best he’s negligent of his duties.
No way this guy works as GM again unless Robert Kraft buys a baseball team.
Hinch is out too but I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets some coaching or coordinator gig at the minor league level.
I have a hard time seeing either employed in their former role ever again with a new team.
“I don’t care what you guys do or talk about here. Just don’t take my shirt off. I’m shy and my wife doesn’t like it…” – Jose Altuve
Unless he’s on the beach. Then he & his wife have no problem. (Seriously, look at his Instagram)
So bad…
Josh Reddick – “It’s just confetti” (that was stuck on the wire)
The poll should give you an option if he will manage in major league baseball again. I think he will manage again. But not in the majors. He may manage a minor-league team or even a Little League team. But never again in major league baseball.
I know this is two different circumstances and different penalties, but If Pete Rose can’t be reinstalled from his life time banishment for gambling, why should Hinch/Luhnow have the opportunity to work in the MLB again? If I was an MLB owner, I wouldn’t employee either of these two again.
Employ*
It’s just so darn ridiculous. You could build the best algorithm in the history of the world and then the other team changes something and you’re hosed. Go to WW2 history. Nobody could break the code talkers because no non-Navaho can speak the language. The code was memorized and Navajos (non code talkers) couldn’t figure it out. There are so many ways to encode a message. But, if the other side DOES “speak the language”, then you change constantly. The best thing about this sign stealing is that it will make teams get better at signs. It’s not rocket science.
I hope they never work in the business again. Scum.
It’s the entire circumference of the Astros’ willingness to “Do whatever it takes” to win and their denial of cheating that should bother every baseball fan. When the allegations came out Hinch denied everything. Luhnow knew what was going on and he continued to promote this ideology of “Win at all costs” in the clubhouse.
All the Astros players knew what they were doing was against MLB policy and they continued to do it until they got caught.
Astros should vacate their championship.
Vacate the title?? Haha
Okay Dodger fan here you go.
“Former Cy Young closer Eric Gagne alleges in his new biography that 80 percent of his Los Angeles Dodgers teammates were using performance-enhancing drugs”
espn.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/8426140/eric-g…
Okay time to kick the dodgers out of baseball.
Just be consistant, if baseball wants to be judge and jury fine but don’t try to have stages of cheating.
For the record, they may despise Pete Rose the man but his play on the diamond will always warrant him a HOF career. Two NFL players who bet on football while playing are in their HOF.
I can name two HOF’ers who were busted bringing drugs into the USA and are still in the HOF.
PED users, a couple eventually will get in. Players on Houston cheated, MLB knows who but wants this to just go away now.
The commissioners office is as wishy washy as the NCAA is. Pathetically humorous .
The in denial, moronic Asstros’ fans who still think their precious team did nothing wrong are the same type of people who still think Nixon did nothing wrong and Donald Trump is only interested in doing what’s best for the country.
He’ll manage the Padres next year. After Tingler pisses off Manny (for not running out a deep fly ball to the corner), he’ll be toast.
AJ (Preller, not Hinch) will be gone and AJ (Hinch, not Preller) will return to his former organization.
Next up should be an in-depth investigation into the Cardinals front office. Luhnow had to get his training somewhere before he was ready to run his own show. Just a little hard to believe that he devised this on his own. Cards have been rumored to be involved in less-than-honest behavior before. MLB needs to get to the bottom of this. Very rarely is the team that got caught the original purveyor of a scheme like this.
I love how Astros fans dismiss the overwhelming evidence put forth by multiple sources and the Commissioners Report That supports a top-down organizational cheating scheme, that is recognized as the worst one in history, but then go right to the Yankees cheating with no evidence to support anything close to the Astros.
They should be severely punished like no other has ever been (and I rooted for the Astros during those seasons after the Yankees lost). Lunhow and Hinch should be banned for life. What they did was much worse than Pete Rose. This is just my opinion, but I’m sure this will trigger Astros to the point of complete denial and full-on attack.
Is Japan an option for either of these 2? lol
I could see Hinch getting a job in the minors somewhere down the road. Maybe making amends and getting another chance. It’s pretty clear Luenow won’t ever be in charge of anything in MLB again. Maybe minors scouting or whatever his title was with St. Louis.
I mean McGwire admitted his roid sins and was allowed back in the majors as a coach. You could say that he’s set a bad example for other players to follow by using PEDs but MLB let him around the game.
Buzzers or something similar was used in 2019. Let’s get to the real bottom of this. Keep digging.
In my opinion, AJ Hinch is a very sick person who needs serious mental and emotional help. Here is his latest interview:
youtu.be/uU3sK2kImKs
Okay let’s take a step back and calm down a little bit. As an Astros fan yes my favorite team cheated. There is no giving the title back though it doesn’t work like that. You can put an * in the book just like you have for Barry Bonds but at the end of the day who owns the HR record? Barry Bonds. Some of you are acting like this affected your personal life. I mean if you work for the dodgers or Yankees or any other team okay you have a reason to be mad but the rest of you take this way too seriously. It’s like the people who have pretty much given up on life since Kobe died (I live in LA I see a lot of it). Point of the rant, put the diapers away get off your soup box and move on with your life. Yes the Astros have cheated for 3 years if not more but how did that affect your life personally? Oh your favorite team lost? If that’s really what your issue is I think you take sports just a little too seriously. End of rant continue the hate
Looks like a blob of text full of excuses. Only Astros fans share this perspective. For the record you guys arent the 2017 winners. No asterisk necessary. Just 0 respect for it.
That’s really funny because when you google mlb 2017 champs it says the Houston Astros. Wake up from your delusional dream
Let’s put this in perspective. If another team cheated — like your precious Asstros most certainly did — and it cost your Asstros a few wins and possibly the World Series I’m pretty sure you would be indignant and angry. Cheaters leave a whole lot shattered things in their wake including disappointed fans who are as invested in their teams as you are in the Asstros.
I agree the Asstros’ cheating culture doesn’t rise to the level of world peace or how to reconnect our divided country. But the Asstros’ repugnant and unrepentant behavior has dulled baseball enjoyment for a lot fans.
“The Rubicon has been crossed in Houston, where he won’t get his old job back.”
Nice reference, Connor!
Remember how Chris Correa said the only reason he hacked into the Astros database was because he knew luhnow had stolen info from the cardinals? I feel like this cheating scandal has deeper roots and reaches further than expected. In 20 years when all these guys are no longer playing we will likely get the real story, but until then the players are untouchable due to the power of the Union.
IMHO, any team that hires these guys will have to deal with the baggage they carry with them. Given their past actions, they will always be under suspicion wherever they go. They shouldn’t be hired as bat boys, but if they do, then Pete Rose has a good case.
Y’all think that Luhnow (the scapegoat) is not going to get another job while Hinch (who obviously is the perpetrator of the sign-stealing case) is? That’s messed up.