It doesn’t take a die-hard baseball fan to know the past few weeks have been an utter nightmare for the Astros. The club was among the game’s elite from 2017-19, but its accomplishments from that span are now in question as a result of a sign-stealing scheme. That scandal has forced major changes in the front office and in the dugout, with the Astros having let go of suspended GM Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch in favor of James Click and Dusty Baker, respectively. At their most successful, Luhnow and Hinch oversaw the Astros’ first-ever World Series-winning team in 2017. But that seven-game victory over the Dodgers is now tarnished in the eyes of many around the game.
Dodgers outfielder Cody Bellinger, a member of the 2017 runners-up and the reigning NL MVP, went so far as to declare last week that the Astros “stole” a championship from him and his teammates. However, Major League Baseball did not formally strip the Astros of the title they won (it obviously would have been a drastic measure for MLB), and commissioner Rob Manfred explained why over the weekend.
“First of all, it had never happened in baseball,” Manfred said. “I am a precedent guy. The 2017 World Series will always be looked at as different, whether not you put an asterisk or ask for the trophy back. Once you go down that road as for changing the result on the field, I just don’t know where you stop.”
Manfred went on to state, “The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act.” That didn’t sit well with one of Bellinger’s teammates and another member of the Dodgers’ 2017 team, Justin Turner. The third baseman fired back that Manfred set “a weak precedent” with his punishment of the Astros, continuing: “For him to devalue [the trophy] the way he did yesterday just tells me how out of touch he is with the players in this game. At this point, the only thing devaluing that trophy is that it says ’Commissioner’ on it.”
“Now anyone who goes forward and cheats to win a World Series,” Turner added (via Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times), “they can live with themselves knowing that, ’Oh, it’s OK. … We’ll cheat in the World Series and bring the title back to L.A. Screw [manager] Dave Roberts and screw [general manager] Andrew [Friedman]. It’s just those guys losing their jobs. I still get to be called a champion the rest of my life.’ So the precedent was set by him yesterday in this case.”
Strong comments, to say the least. Which side are you on here? Would Manfred have gone too far in taking away the Astros’ championship?
(Poll link for app users)
Manfred has been awful as commissioner. Plain and Simple
He should resign. It’s literally all his fault for trying to change the game. It was his idea to allow cameras in the clubhouse/dugout because of challenges. And how he has handled this, the new rules for this year, and the new playoff format, are all just icing on the cake. MLB has been going downhill since he took over.
Trevor Bauer for commish #2020
Why should Manfred be held to a higher standard than the President?
Take politics to another board fool
I find it fascinating where people expect accountability and competence and where they clearly don’t give a s*** about it at all.
This isn’t Twitter. No one cares about your irrelevant opinion. Try talking BASEBALL.
This is a baseball board, not a political board. If people don’t want to talk about politics here, it doesn’t mean they don’t “give a s*** about it at all.” It just means they have the sense to understand the topic at hand. That sense should be of the common variety, but it apparently eludes you, baseballpun. It is no wonder you are so easily fascinated. My guess is that you still get distracted when people wave keys in front of your face.
Take that liberal nonsense to the cnn room
Liberals think that everyone thinks the way they do. They can’t wrap their heads around the fact that people may disagree with them.
take that teatraitorism into a gator hole!
The Astros are cheaters, 2017 is forever tainted, they can keep their trophy, for real baseball fans it’s already been stripped, talk baseball kiddos, if you want to talk football go to nfltraderumors, if you want to talk other topics there are plenty of those comment sections too, we don’t want any politics here, this is our escape
Why don’t we forget about the article we just read and talk about the coronovirus. Wouldn’t that be the same thing? Let’s talk baseball and not politics please?
The President is doing fine, it’s the Democrat owned media that presents an agenda as news that is not. Do some research on what they’re not telling you.
Do some research on what they are not telling you?
In other words, go read a bunch of made up stuff by a bunch of paranoid delusional people that agrees with your general philosophy and then pretend it is true. That sounds like a wonderful way to live.
Where did all these “useful idiots” come from?
We are here to talk baseball bozo! Take your political b.s. somewhere else baseballpun. Get lost!
Oh please. Knock off your partisan bs. Wrong forum for your crap.
LMAO
“TAKE THAT LIBERAL NONSENSE SOMEWHERE ELSE”
Congratulations on talking politics just like him you morons!
Speaking of Bud… How do you replace Bud Selig and STILL be considered awful?
I would guess that most of us here prefer the show (MLB) to the never ending #2 show in DC.
(No offense, Nats fans)
Bingo.
Manfred sucks!!
He made the changes for the game that I love and continues to make changes to the game I love. Bad or good you should be responsible period for those changes. No F’n excuses!!!!
Turner talks about Friedman and Roberts theoretically losing their jobs, but Girardi did lose his job after the Astros cheated to eliminate the Yanks in 7. They can count their lucky stars that Girardi is not the type of guy to sue.
While I agree that one play here or there probably could have significantly changed the outcome, Girardi was a dead man walking. Short of winning the World Series, he was done for with the Yankees. His last season in NY, no one expected that team to go as far as they did and they took the eventual WS champions to 7 games. I say this as someone who is a Yankees fan feels the 2017 title should just be vacated. Take the banners, take the rings, I even think they should lose any playoff bonuses they received, but you can play the what if game all day. The Astros were still a good team and probably could have won even without cheating, which makes the whole thing even more sad.
The thing that really gets me about all of this is the fact that Manfred has covered up so much of what happened. If Fiers doesn’t go public the league would have never investigated to begin with. They didn’t release all of the info about things that have (or at least are likely to have happened) such as “codebreaker” and the buzzers. On top of all that, they are going to defend any of the guys who get actually punished with fastballs during the season and suspend the people that hit them while they don’t follow any of the cheaters with actual punishments. That World Series is not a piece of metal that means nothing they should have it taken and be disgraced like the Astros have disgraced the game of baseball.
If fiers doesn’t speak. We don’t hear about it. He did nothing, even after the whole league complained about the astros cheating. And the buzzers are a real thing, but Manfred knows if this comes out, he’s done.
If the Beltran burner account doesn’t put out a very public warning, then we all find out that he has been cheating for a very long time and teaching his teammates how to cheat too.
Speculation much?
Idk what that means?
Go back to school much?
It’s high time for Players Union to represent the Players who don’t cheat.
Umpire: this is spot on.
The A’s submitted a formal complaint about the Astros cheating to MLB before Fiers went public and MLB ignored it. Fiers going public forced MLB to acknowledge it. Otherwise everything would have been swept under the rug,
Yanks complained about the Astros cheating too, but were told there was no evidence of such. Meanwhile some jokers on you tube find overwhelming evidence in five minutes. Clearly MLB didn’t even bother looking. Manfred is a liar and should resign immediately.
Yanks are the biggest cheaters in MLB.
5 Titles stolen with teams loaded up with roided up players…?!
Strip the Yanks Titles…Out Asterisks on those Yanks years.
Every team had players who were using. Doesn’t excuse the Yankees players who used, but you’re naive if you think whatever team you root for didn’t have some roided up meatheads on it.
This is the most laughable, partisan Position imaginable. The 90’s yankees were the team with the least roiled up players and power hitters. Martinez, O’Neill, Williams, Jeter, Mariano all the highest examples. You have only Clemens who wasn’t a necesary cog or even present for the first three titles and Pettite who used HGh on his come back from injury when he was an Astro. To claim they are somehow a great example of steroids is just silly
Manfred is the hired mouthpiece of the owners. Plain and simple.
And completely overlooked as the real issue.
yup
3850 Astro(isk) fans have voted. That seems to be about what they avg in attendance when they first came into the AL.
I truly feel sorry for the fans though. They didn’t do this but have to suffer through it. If you are an Astro fan don’t make excuses or say it was blown out of proportion. It is not your fault but don’t look foolish like the players and owners did. They have way too much evidence it happened.
This was the first time I got to see a team I like win it all.
That may be but how in the hell do you strip the Astros of their WS?? Do you award it to LA who they beat or do you award it to the team they beat in the ALCS or do you simply just have no WS winner?? I am NOT NOT an Astros fan but you CAN NOT take away their WS. That would be bad for baseball.
I agree. What’s done is done. I do think though if it happens again then you’d have to then strip that team of the World Series title. Commissioner needs to let teams know if it happens again then they will be stripped of the World Series title.
@Randy Red Sox 2017 will forever be a black eye for baseball let there be no world series winner in 2017.
You declare the title vacated. The Dodgers and their fans don’t want it. But the Astros’ win should not stand. Like 1994, in 2017 (at least) the records should show no winner.
Agreed. Vacate the title. That year just doesn’t have a winner. I don’t know that you could just give it to the Dodgers. Bit letting Houston keep it is a slap in the face
Weve gone without WS titles b4 on years of strikes and such, they should loose title to stop any BS in the future, stohs will not be accepted on the road and will be booed & prob a few players hit, this is just the start because only managers were fired no players were punished
ws titles? only once
Couldn’t agree more. From the onset, his vision and focuses have been completely disengaged from the actual fan base and players. I have not been impressed by a single item he has enacted as commissioner. He’s just an out of touch old man who thinks he knows better than everyone else. “Nonbaseball fans think the games take too long” “okay here are rules that everyone actually involved, invested, or enjoying the game will hate.”
Manfred’s description of the title was stupid, but taking it away from them still doesnt really change that the players went unpunished and hurt other players careers
You’re right. But it’s a punishment. If there is no punishment by opening day. A lockout is very possible.
lockout? you really think the players care that much? so much hypocrisy from the players, but that is just ridiculous. they want to get paid.
They do care that much. Ask em.
And you act like they’d never play again. They’d lose a couple games of paychecks and start playing once the commissioner realizes what he has to do. We’re talking nickels and dimes. I bet all the owners would still pay the players too in support, for the length of the lockout
Everyone. Look at the term closely. Lockout… Lock Out. As in, lock the facilities to keep someone out. How is this an action the players could perform? SMH.
A “lockout” is what happens when labor unrest (e.g., a strike) is inevitable.
zero chance of a lockout of strike. players aren’t going to punish themselves because other people weren’t punished to their liking.
Alex Gordon is probably playing his last year. he’s not giving that up. and on the other end, someone is maybe getting their only shot to be a big leaguer this year. they aren’t giving that chance up either.
will never happen.
When the players love the game of baseball, more than a few nickels or dimes they might lose, I’d rethink that. It’d be temporary, not a whole season.
It’s bigger than money. People who aren’t baseball fans just don’t get it
Some players will lose more than nickels and some though. Some have milestones like plate appearances they have to get to trigger big bonuses or even control of their future. Like said prior, I don’t see players punishing themselves because no one punished the Astros. They will likely throw at them, keep hounding them and the commissioner so this doesn’t die. The other issue here is that there won’t be anymore punishments for the Astros unless new evidence comes up. You have to look at the CBA and how punishments are legally allowed to be handed out in union labor laws. Jeff Passan just wrote an article about it. More likely any punishment that MLB would throw at them (the players) would get thrown-out in court.
The last lockout in the NHL effectively ended multiple players careers. Guys who were near the end of their career and only had a year or 2 left to play (think of someone in their late 30s) never made it back. They either didn’t have it anymore or younger players took their place. For the big names, they won’t be impacted much, but for younger players and fringe players (the guys who make up most of the league) they’re not giving up money for this nonsense. The players are mad, but they’re not stupid.
A lockout would be lead by ownership, owners aren’t gonna give up guaranteed money for this. A walkout would be the players, and they aren’t giving up guaranteed money either. The title should be vacated, it won’t. The players should be punished, they won’t. Manfred should be fired, he won’t. We can cry here and wherever we want, they all understand one thing…..money. And dispite crying, not enough people will make their wallets talk enough to get real change.
This is an excellent point. If anyone in the fan base wants to be heard.. rally a boycott of games, broadcasts and apparel. If enough people commit to and follow through with the boycott.. at least Manfred loses his job.
I agree 100%
Lockout? A lockout from fans, maybe. Many of whom are questioning whether they want to keep spending their valuable time watching a sport where massive cheating gets minimized and degenerate players get off scot-free.
Good grief!!! Now I have heard it all. Smh!
No it’s not. Lockouts are initiated by the players Union, the same Union that is the reason the Astros players weren’t punished to begin with. Dumb.
All 110 Houston astros fans have logged online.
Haha
20.19% are Astros fans
Lol…I actually voted “no” because I don’t think it makes sense to vacate titles in pro sports. This isn’t college sports or European soccer (as much as I enjoy both of those). However, I do think that the punishments were weak.
I also voted no. It doesn’t do anything, so what’s the point. Everyone knows what happened.
Sure it does. No championship banner flying, not trophy to keep on display forever, and no place in the record books. Nobody on that team could ever call themselves a world series champion. It would probably hurt the players more than a suspension.
and no more memorabilia either like world series champion caps shirts etc.
I’m not an Astros fan and I voted No. I don’t think you can prove that the title would not have happened without the system. I do, though, feel that all players involved should have been suspended for a year and management involved lifetime bans.
Doesn’t matter if the title would have happened with the system or without. They cheated plain and simple. If you cheat you should be disqualified. I also agree with the commenter that says the title should be stripped and left vacant.
I voted no as well. Opening Pandora’s box if you do. Do you vacate WS titles for teams that had players caught for PEDs? That’s cheating too.
The evidence of cheating is a lot stronger in this case, and what the Astros did also seems like it’s a more serious and stringent form of cheating too.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m not condoning what the PED guys did in the ‘Roid Era. But what’s done is done there. It took baseball a long time to cleanse its image afterwards, and what the Astros just did muddies it up again.
Time to set a stronger “precedent” that cheating is not okay.
Uhh people are still “Roidin” man.
yes, same with teams who had pitchers using foreign substances in the postseason. do their titles get stripped as well?
Matt Barnes was using “goop” hidden behind his belt in the BoSox 2018 postseason. Do we strip that title?
An honest campaign to strip all WS titles from teams that broke a rule (aka “cheated”) in the postseason and were not punished for it at the time would end up stripping most of the WS titles ever awarded.
Of course if your intent is not to have an honest campaign to clean up the game, but instead just to denigrate the Astros because it’s fun to pile onto an internet bandwagon, then you would strip the ’17 title and stop there. this seems to be what most respondents to the poll are interested in.
They were caught cheating as a team. Those examples are completely individual players. This was a plan by a whole team. Big difference.
You guys need to stop equating all forms of cheating.
Cheating is cheating. No difference.
Steroids are an individual issue. At no time in the investigation of steroids did Congress turn up front office meetings where getting steroids were discussed. This was a whole team, coaches, front office people players everybody. Now, as far as the records those PED players put up…
Steroids cheating was team wide with the Yankees..
Strip the last 5 titles from yhe Yankees.
@takeitback: You lack the ability to see anything beyond black and white.
Has there been any evidence the pitchers participated in this? Everything I’ve seen involved the batters
@SportsFan0000 A player who was on steroids still didn’t know what pitch was coming like the Trashstros did. Btw I’m not saying that I don’t think steroids wasn’t a problem I think it was a big problem players on all teams were using it which was a big problem like I said. Also Carlos Correa was defending Jose Altuve by saying he deserved that MVP because he hit without the trash can being banged guess what he still stole that MVP from Aaron Judge because Altuve had guys on base when he was batting who were using the trash can to their advantage to get base hits or to know when not to swing and took a walk and then Altuve got to drive them in and got RBIs when he might have not gotten to have as many at bats with runners on base in the first place if not for the trash can.
While that may be true about steroids for individual players, it wasn’t against the rules then (weak rules, no testing, MLBPA delaying it). Since then, it has been and now is against the rules and there is an agreed upon testing system and serious consequences if you fail or get caught, especially the 2nd or 3rd time. So anyone still “roidin’” is at their own individual peril for suspension or ban.
Electronically cheating was and is also against the rules but no agreed upon punishment in this modern era. Manfred has the chance to set the precedent of how the Astros as an organization got punished and he did mostly that except for the owner ($5M is pocket change). But he did not punish the TEAM, aka players as a collective – couldn’t punish the individual players (suspend, $$$$), ok, but to allow season and postseason long, multiple year cheating without team consequence like vacating a title won while cheating – that’s an injustice to the rest of the league, owners, players, and fans, and to the rest of the sporting world. Sad. My opinion.
All the inflated home runs, rbis, extra base hits etc…
10-15 home run guys become 30, 40+ home run guys
STEROIDS DESTROYED THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME AND MAKE MANY OF THOSE CHAMPIONSHIPS VOID OR VOIDABLE.
The Yankees were the biggest offenders.
Red Sox were major cheaters too.
Manfred works for the owners.
All they care about is making $$$$
The Integrity of the game is far down on their list of priorities.
Can see that with the much worse doping scandals that tainted the game for a few decades and tainted many championships/
DOPING MADE AVERAGE AND ABOVE AVERAGE PLAYERS INTO SUPER HERO PLAYERS WITH STATS WAY BEYOND WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE NORMALLY ATTAINED.
Bonds, McGuire, Sosa went from l;egit 35-40 home run guys
to guys hitting 50+, 60+,, and 70+ home runs in 1 SEASON?!
YANKEES TEAMS WERE LOADED WITH ROIDED UP CHEATING PLAYERS. EVEN THEIR PITCHERS WHERE DOPING LIKE CLEMENS AND OTHERS..
YANKEES LAST 5 TITLES ARE TAINTED, SHOULD BE ASTERISKED AND THEN REVOKED.
This is the best response here. Baseball is a business… money and profit comes first, everything else later.
Astros World Series will always be tainted
They cheated to get there, plain and simple!!! Therefore the series was tainted before it even happened. What’s this showing our kids as they grow up, it’s ok to cheat if you don’t get caught? Or it’s ok to cheat in order to get what you want. As a diehard baseball fan and Angels fan, it’s disgusting to know that not only did the players get away with it but they were given immunity as well. I know the union is really strong for their players, but last time I checked the commissioner isn’t.
What it comes down to is that they should of had every single win stripped from them that yr, and from what I’ve read maybe the last 2 yrs as well. I hope and pray that every single one of them feels disgraced walking onto that field every day from here on out. And that karma gets them in the a$$!!
I’m not an Astros fan, I just don’t care.
I do think that they should’ve stripped the Astros 2017 World Series title, but just keep it vacated, because while the Astros definitely cheated I don’t believe the Dodgers should just be gift wrapped the title, because unearned titles are kinda dumb.
I agree, also taking away the title doesn’t take away the memories the fans and players had in that run.
Should run a poll on if manfred should be fired.
Easy “yes” on that one
Manfred doesn’t work for you, or the players. He works for the owners. Send your critiques to your owners by sending letters and (more importantly) not spending money on their product. As long as the money is there, there is no reason to change.
No Manfred works for baseball. Obviously he doesn’t have the best interest of the game at heart, like Selig didn’t. He has failed beyond measure up to this point and his new ‘playoff scheme’ and that’s what it is a scheme, is an example of how bad he is.
no… he works for the owners
He works for the owners, not MLB.
Wrong, he works for the owners
Those that think a commissioner will be fired for messing up a huge scandal clearly don’t see how often Goodell falls on his face yet keeps his job. Granted the Astros cheating is huge but Goodell can’t get a lot right with DV issues and other huge embarrassments. As soon as Manfred stops making the owners money, he will be gone. Not before.
Manfred works for the owners.
All they care about is making $$$$
The Integrity of the game is far down on their list of priorities.
Can see that with the much worse doping scandals that tainted the game for a few decades and tainted many championships/
Jesus Christ, this is ridiculous. They’re not going to strip the title. You’re all wishful thinking. STFU and play ball.
I believe the question was “should” they, not will they. So stfu and let everyone have there opinions and say.
No one thinks they’re going to. It’s just a fun poll on a site about speculating and reporting on baseball transactions. It’s meant to foster discussion. Calm down, O Enlightened One.
I can’t believe an account named after the Astros mascot would want this to be over with…. Contrary to your opinion Orbit, we all want it to be over too, but your players and owner keep opening their stupid mouths and re-pissing everyone off.
* play ball fairly is what everyone wants.
That the point. Take another lap orbit.
a hollow and desperate gesture. you cant erase the past, people. ill-begotten or not, you know who won the 2017 World Series.
Yes, we know who won. A team full of cheaters.
Yeah, Lyin’ Cheatin’ Astros. You decide if you want to include Houston in on that if you want that to represent your city.
Stripping them seems like a good idea, I don’t know if that’ll accomplish anything though besides saying that we won’t tolerate cheating. Which Mlb says they don’t anyway lol
Right, instead Manfred said, by his lack of discipline, that he would tolerate cheating. What he won’t tolerate is in game retaliation or policing of the game as has always been. Great priorities Manfred.
Absolutely. If you’re going to give immunity to players (which was incredibly dumb, and the easy way out of investigating), then hit the organization as hard as possible. This includes stripping this title.
Stripping titles is pointless. Everyone still knows the result. Punish them in other ways.
Pointless? The astros make up 3% of the MLB. The other 97% of the league, meaning all other players in the league want a punishment. And if you can’t punish the players. What better than stripping the title they cheated for?
People don’t realize how pissed the players are. A lockout is a definite possibility unless this is done. Would that make astros fans happy?
Again. I replied to you up there. Zero chance of a strike over this. Zero.
And it doesn’t do anything. Everyone knows Reggie Bush won the Heisman. Everyone knows all those vacated Final Fours still happened.
It’s a meaningless punishment. As I said, punish them in other ways.
While I don’t think there will be either (not by a long shot), OP mentioned a lockout and you’re talking about a strike. They’re two different things. Workers can go on strike or ownership can lock them out.
It’s different with Reggie Bush because his violations didn’t enhance his play. If anything, the ncaa taking away Bush’s Heisman should serve as an example for the mlb
Owners do lockouts. Players do walk outs. Totally different animals.and neither will happen over this.
Fans boycott
So punish your team for the Astros not being punished?
It’s more than 3%. There were other teams that had some kind of sign stealing system as well. Maybe not as “sophisticated,” but something. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was nearly 30%.
On October 9, 1996, the Yankees trailed the Orioles 4–3 in the bottom of the eighth inning when shortstop Derek Jeter hit a deep fly ball to right field. Right fielder Tony Tarasco moved near the fence and appeared “to draw a bead on the ball”[3] when the then-12-year-old Maier clearly reached over the fence separating the stands and the field of play nine feet below and snatched the ball with his glove. While baseball fans are permitted to catch (and keep) balls hit into the stands, the Major League Baseball rulebook states that spectator interference is to be called if “a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field, and touches a live ball”[4].
If Buckner was simply replaced as normal, the Mets only win one World Series back in 1969. Joke of a franchise that doesn’t belong in NYC and isn’t even more popular than the only real NYC team in Queens.
first, what do either of these comments have anything to do with mine. Secondly, Truth, you’re obviously a troll, but you do know the game was tied at that point, right? Mookie beats almost anyone to the bag on that play, too.
You’re just an apologist with zero evidence. No one outside of possibly Boston was doing this
Why do i say that? If LAD, NYY, CLEV, etc were also Doing this… why would they have called national players beforehand and warned them? Why would they possibly ruin their own system?
See how dumb that is…
@metfan4ever The lousy mets couldn’t even have a pitcher throw a no-hitter for the pathetic mets until your loser franchise got help from the umpire on that base hit down the left field line. Replays clearly showed that was a base hit when Johan Santana pitched the only so-called no hitter in the mets pathetic history. Try not to to complain about the yankees in 1996 at least they won 22 World Series before 1996 unlike the mets who won two. At this point the most exciting thing that can happen for the Mets fans is for their ridiculous owners to sell that laughing stock of a franchise.
they won another 4 World Series after 1996 and could’ve won 2 more if it weren’t for the cheating Crapdtros!
*Crapstros
Was Bucky Dent’s Bat Corked For 1978 Playoff Home Run? Dent had been hitting .140 with no homers over his last 20 games. For the big hit, Dent borrowed his teammate Mickey Rivers’ bat. “They told me they put some cork in the bat,” Luis Tiant says. “That’s what they tell me. Mickey Rivers told me.” “Those things happened in those days,” Lynn said with a laugh. “I’m not saying that those guys did,” he said with a shrug. “But those things did happen.”
Your team won one World Series on an error and the other is just an example of playoff crapshoots. Baltimore were clearly the best team in 1969.
The investigation was concluded with a deal to the players being given immunity. There won’t be any further punishment by the league. The point of stripping the title would keep it from the record books, no trophy in a glass case, no banner to hang at their ballpark etc. Even the rings and merchandise would hold little to no value. Also I agree with the sentiment that some had said that they should give huge donations to charities, forced or not.
“but it’s accomplishments from that span are now in question”
There is not really any question now.
Oriignally I was on the fence about this, but seeing the smugness of the players and fans alike completely made me change my mind.
They should, but it doesn’t take away the memories the fans and players. Whether they take it away or not, We will always know that they cheated their way to the title.
It should be stripped and left vacant
Penn State never won any games. USC never won any BCS titles. Never happened. Except when they replay it on ESPN classic or ESPNU.
I mean, if it wasn’t something that gave them such a clear advantage… then I’d be ok with them keeping it. But Pete Rose doesn’t get in the HOF for cheating, Barry bonds doesn’t either, then this is kinda the same thing in my opinion.
Does not matter if it helped a bit, if you cheat you are to be disqualified.
Still wish there was a series between the Dodgers and Astros this year
Cubs play Al East this year. Wish to see Yu plunk a few Stros
The Astros are in the West, not the East.
There are roid heads on WS winners. Strip those titles?
Does not matter if it helped a bit, if you cheat you are to be disqualified.
Still wish there was a series between the Dodgers and Astros this year
Cubs play Al East this year. Too bad Wish to see Yu plunk a few Astros before his arm falls
off
So the Yankees bring on Beltran as a special assistant and subsequently a team of scab minor leaguers sets the league on fire with dinger after dinger.
Smoke? Fire? If you don’t believe Beltran’s career is leaving a trail of high tech cheaters, then that smoke is coming from your crack pipe.
Laughable. The Yankees wanted to know what the astros were doing, which is why they brought him in.
Why would they cheat in the minor leagues? For money? Makes no sense to cheat in minor leagues so good try.
Like, let’s make our prospects look better than they are, so when we call them up, they are awful?
I’ve been watching you post literally the dumbest things in two threads tonight. You obviously have no idea what your talking about, a bitter astros fan, or autistic.
His first language isn’t English, most people get enough of what he is trying to say. From most of his post he is a Yankees fan. Best I can tell from your post is your a kid, was thinking middle school maybe early high school…..regardless making fun of people trying to communicate in a second language is ridiculous
You’re wrong about how old I am. But you’re right about me being wrong with what I said. Not to defend myself, but how am I suppose to know this? I’ve been active on this site for years and have never came across him until tonight. And based on reading his comments, I can’t tell that English is his second language because I can’t hear him speak through a posting forum.
So I definitely want to apologize to eljemp2006 for what I said. Regardless of what Indians joe has brought to my attention.
Sorry bud. I love baseball and I am passionate, but that can’t get in the way of being a good human.
I have the most love for MLB baseball! All teams, especially my Tigers. And who doesn’t want October Trout?
Native Korean here. US immigrant. US Army for retiring.
Practicing English with my friend Craig, seemingly all my life, but actually two years. For twenty years, English used to be just, “yes sir” and “no ma’am” with salutes. But now English is only for baseball and this site makes me better with friends.
Also sorry, but my favorite is MLB conspiracy theories. And I have fun for them on this site. Sorry. Lol a lot!
I understood all you said so you’re doing great with English. Thanks for serving.
Thank you man for your service. And like I said, if I knew English was your second language, I wouldn’t have said what I said.
God bless baseball.
I work with with veterans for a living here at the VA in Houston so thank you for your service.
@indiansjoe And for someone who is so much more mature than myself and has better morals, you’d think about how disrespectful and ignorant your user name is. I understand the team name being around for decades, but you can’t have that name and make me feel like I’m wrong for not knowing someone’s native tongue. Good night sir.
Wait, what’s wrong with his name?
For future reference, just because some one is autistic doesn’t mean they have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. I have Autism so I just wanted to put that out there.
@Ejemp2006 Thank you for your service. I really respect you!
25 years ago I was sitting at a poker table wearing a script I hat, as an apparent Indians fan they gave me the nickname and it stuck. All this time later I have no patience for politics or political correctness. #me too, trumptards, bleeeding liberals, all the young kids getting offended by every word ever used….just a bunch of idiots that want to convince everyone they are right and you should be like them. We are all different and that’s a good thing. Treat people with dignity and respect when you can, I admit I get carried away here from time to time and loose that. But I don’t care who is offended by what I’m called, no more than I care which idiot they are voting for up there to be president, news flash they all want you to pay their share. Never democrats nor republicans care about the people of this country that are working hard….the sooner everyone realizes that the sooner we can get back to arguing over what really matters…..
Nobody should get the title. astros may not even made the playoffs.
The best part of this entire scandal has been the Astros fans. I can’t remember laughing this hard. The way they try to justify cheating and a tainted championship is Hilarious! I’ve really enjoyed the last month.
If I was an astros fan, I’d literally find a new team to root for. Atleast the Texas rangers. Your own team scammed you, took a poop on your face, and you guys still back them.
But it’s obvious that astros fans don’t like baseball. They like winning, at all costs. So naive, just like the whole organization.
That’s called being a bandwagoner. No thanks. “Astros fans don’t like baseball”. – You’re entitled to your opinion but I think that’s a load of BS.
Make me laugh.
All these “holier than thou” hypocritical posts…
Strip the Yankees and Red Sox titles while you are at it
Roided up cheating teams are much worse than sign stealing
Interesting point – they didn’t mind hosing their other Texas team either with cheating. Equal opportunity.
Lol dudes gatekeeping who can be fans of what team. Get a life loser lmao
2017- Houston Astros*
*Caught cheating.
Make the asterisk official. Put it in the record book. Add it to their flag.
I can understand most arguments about stripping the title having no real impact and that the memories for the fans and the players will never go away, and that’s certainly true. And if this was a team with a ton of championships like the Yankees or the Cardinals, I might have voted no, but this is the Astros. This is their only World Series win. You take this away, they have no trophy to show off, no banner to hang up, no rings to wear, no anniversaries to celebrate, and nothing to brag about. And the most embarrassing thing of all? Next time they win the World Series, they have to announce they’ve won their first official World Series in franchise history – how awkward, but hilarious for the rest of us.
^^^^This post for the win!^^^^
Right after the =Yankees and Red Sox get the same treatment for DOPING AND CHEATING THEIR WAY TO CHAMPIONSHIPS
Let them keep it. They should alter the inscription with an asterisk or something else noteworthy to tell of the scandal. I would also love to see them fly a replacement championship banner. Put up a new one that looks like a trash can and has an asterisk on it.
Houston got hit with terrible flooding in 2017 and won the title. Boston Marathon bombing in 2013 and Red Sox win the title. September 11, 2001 and Mariano throws the ball into centerfield or the yankees win the title. Some of the championships are feel good stories. Now Papi is on some list that nobody has ever seen and the garbage can banging causes everyone to want full scale annihilation of the Houston Astros franchise. Let’s go back in time and give the yankees the 2001 World Series so we can all feel better. History happens. Move on. It’s a new year of baseball.
so many people stuck in the past. i agree. we’ve known for some time now there wouldn’t be more punishments for obvious and mostly justified reasons. deal with it.
There are some people who don’t have a clue how strong the Player’s Union is. It took an act of Congress to get PED testing.
With this Union, the only way they would have admitted anything is with complete immunity. Palmeiro, Clemens, Bonds all lied to Congress. NOTHING!!!! Clemens and Bonds still get 60% of the Hall of Fame votes.
I don’t believe a word any Astro says, but to believe Manfred could have suspend anyone with that Union is really naive.
Some of you people think it would have been easy.. Well this isn’t 1919.
If they strip Titles from teams that cheated and teams with cheaters… there are going to be a lot of titles stripped: For Years the Team encouraged their players to take steroids… and when it became clear how bad it was Congress stepped in.. Teams , yes teams would have their go to guy to send players to to get the juice.. as for players.. enhancement thru drugs has been going on as long as Baseball existed… and speaking of cheating: Tanking is cheating the system… MLB rules require teams and player to make every effort to win ever game ( MLB RULE 21 A I believe). when a team tanks it is cheating the system to get better draft picks …
Really?! You’re comparing ANY of that to batters knowing what pitch was coming (fastball or off speed—as of now, at least) in REAL TIME to actions that were most likely being taken by EVERYONE? Steroids were leveling the playing field. This is one team cheating at the highest level of ALL-TIME. Nothing compares to what the Astros did — or do.
carpola man: Nothing has changed since the guy with the binoculars in the centerfield bleachers yelling the code words for the coming pitch… and here you though they were loud mouth for no reason… of course If a pitcher knew you were stealing signs.. you were likely to get a ball thrown at your head…
Well, now all the opposing pitcher do know the Astros were stealing wherever and whenever they played them. So yes, those pitchers should and will address, maybe a little lower than you suggested.
Then the cheaters will have some punishment.
Baker has already put the league on notice.
Any retaliation with bean ball wars
and there will be opposing player and managers suspensions and fines..
Roided up Yankees and Red Sox cheating teams are worse.
Every team steals signs.
Even vets in the Hall of Fame admit their teams stole signs..
How many times are you gonna say this?…
@Old Guy: Not all of those actions are analogous. Comparing this present Astros cheating scandal to tanking shows a decided lack of logic.
Logic: cheating is cheating… even if that cheating is Tanking.. its still cheating… and Tanking has a lot more impact on the league… when 3 out of 5 teams in your division are tanking you get a decided advantage … 100 win seasons because other teams are cheating… that looks good on players stats.. when you face less than MLB caliber pitchers and players because teams are tanking… clearly Tanking has much more impact on the league and all the players then 1 team stealing signs..
Tanking is not the same as cheating. Not all teams have the same market share/budget, and not all teams can or are willing to go for it every year. If a small market team makes a choice to suck consciously, that’s their decision. Fans can support that or they can turn their attention to another team. And tanking doesn’t guarantee a subsequent WS win – all it guarantees is a higher draft pick.
Those who use a camera to steal signs, on the other hand, ARE changing the outcome, They are like students who steal tests or plagiarize – you literally cannot cheat more egregiously than that.
Tanking is cheating.. it is a violation of the MLB rules.. by definition.. and much worse for the League and the players… Tanking teams inflate Batters averages, HR totals.. etc… making people look better in the history than they are.. and tanking is giving an unfair advantage to those in your division as you play each other 16- 19 times… meaning it allows teams to the post season who may not have the right to be there… all because they played tanking teams.. and FYI it isn’t only the small market teams… It has been teams like the Cubs… and Huston.. the Dodgers..
When have the Dodgers tanked? I agree tanking needs to be stopped or at least discouraged. I like the promotion/relegation system, although that would be incredibly complicated with the minors system. I’m just not sure how this relates to this issue– are you going to strip them of their losses?
take draft picks.. what they tank for… set a payroll floor.. the MLB knows the real numbers.. they know what teams can afford.. they should be making ever effort.. and spending is one of those efforts..
Dodgers tanking??? Let’s use a 73 win .451 win percentage 14 games below .500 as a cut off. Since 1979, the Dodgers have been at or below that exact 4 times, 1986, 1987, 1992 and most recently 2005 (Frank McCourt era, nuff said). With that record in 2019, Dodgers would have been above 7 AL and 4 NL teams.
Too stringent? Ok set the bar to 80 wins to make it a losing season, .494, 2 games below .500 (which is halfway competitive and not tanking). Since 1970, Dodgers have been there or below exactly 9 times, the aforementioned 4, plus 1979, 1984, 1989, 1999, and most recently 2010 (again Frank McCourt era). Exactly 9 times at 80 games or below out of 50 years, an .820 percentage of finishing .500 or better, and exactly 2 times below .500 on the last 20 years when real tanking became a thing, a .900 percentage for finishing at .500 or above.
Every team could have bad injuries derail their season but the modern era Dodgers since 1970 have not tanked purposely and only finished below .451 4 times, still way better than modern (last 20 years) teams that have finished below .451 more times than that in the last 20 years (BAL 11x, DET, SD 8x, KC 12x, HOU, CIN, CHC, MIA 7x, TB 9x, PHI 6x, etc. Don’t lump them in.
The Commissioner is making very bad choices for MLB.
He should submit his resignation or be fired for his incompetence.I
TAKE AWAY THEIR TROPHY, THEIR RIGHT TO INDIVIDUAL RINGS, THEIR BANNER… DON’T GIVE IT TO THE DODGERS (even though they took a team of CHEATERS to a Game 7) BUT TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING!!!
The postseason careers of Kershaw/Jansen/Darvish will FOREVER be tarnished by the 2017 World Series, which in all likelihood, SHOULD have all three of those pitchers as World Series Champions on their resume’s.
STEP UP COMMISH!!!
Lol so MLB is going to send a team to physically take property of individual players from them that they already have?
Stripping? No. By Astros and other players own admission they made it difficult almost impossible for Astros to cheat during the playoffs with wristbands. They tried, but the impact can’t be quantified with other teams using counter measures.
Suspending players for cheating and trying to cheat? Yes
Banning players for cheating and trying to cheat? Yes
Giving the regular season MVP to Judge? Yes
Making the players give back $$ they earned for playoffs and winning a ws for cheating and trying to cheat? Yes
Forcing the astros to surrender draft picks to every team they cheated or tried to cheat against in the playoffs? Yes. Cards had to give Astros picks for hacking into their system.
Manfred removed as commissioner? Whole heatedly yes.
I agree with you except for the MVP award. The players should be punished. Drafts picks,etc. The Comish should be in the unemployment line.
I agree with you except for the MVP award. The players should be punished. Drafts picks,etc. The Comish should be in the unemployment line.
Manfred has shown he is not qualified to be the commissioner. Not only because he did not punish the Astros adequately, but because he has failed miserably with every aspect of this situation. Every time he opens his mouth he digs himself deeper while throwing fuel on the fire. I agree he needs to go. He’s the worst, Jerry, the worst!
I voted no. we all know. its a stain and you cant give it to someone else. so I hate to say it but it’s pointless. plus it hurts baseball overall to keep dwelling on it.
if you take away the championship, dont you in turn have to strip any team that won a world series while having a player or more on steroids. thats cheating. whole team didnt do it but some did. lets move on. new season.. if anything make them do some kind of community service with little leagues and high school programs, lets use them to teach
It baffles me that people can continue to be this moronic. Seriously, it boggles the mind. You question why teams with some PED users who won the World Series shouldn’t have to vacate the title, but then explicitly spell out the key difference yourself; that steroids would be just a few players and not an entire team. You answered your own question.
3 or 4 players on steroids is simply not the same as an entire team of hitters knowing what pitch is coming for the entire season and during the playoffs. Even players on steroids still have to make good pitches to get outs or out-think pitchers to get hits. It’s not remotely comparable, aside from both being methods of cheating, so people need to stop pretending it is.
It was more than 3-4 players on most WS teams. And it only takes one person on a team to gain an advantage with PED’s. So it is similar.
Unless an entire team was on PEDs, no it’s not. And my point that PEDs still aren’t a substitute for skill still stands. Being able to predict what pitch is coming through good old fashioned research and deduction is a skill in its own right. Awareness of the count, the type of pitches they throw, how fast they throw them, where they like to throw them in certain counts, etc. It’s what keeps so many hitters from finding consistent success, and can make a guy with weak power and lagging bat speed into an average player if his eye and deduction skills are sharp enough. You think great players like Trout, Betts and Bellinger are going up to the plate with zero idea of what the person they’re up against throws? Do you think they’d be successful without knowing if the guy throws 90, or 95? Without knowing if he throws a curveball, or a slider? Give me a break. Steroids, while a significant boost for most players, are not a substitute for those skills and all the research that goes into even a single at bat by the most dedicated of players. Knowing exactly what pitch is coming though? That is.
Doesn’t matter if one guy uses them if he inflates his numbers. You forget that it’s a team game where the contributions of one guy make his team better. It’s not a game of individual accomplishments. That better production translated to wins. Don’t get hung up on the mechanism.
I think it should be stressed that people aren’t necessarily advocating the title be given to the Dodgers. Not only would it be hollow to be awarded a World Series two years after the fact, robbing you of the parade and celebration with your teammates and the joy from your fanbase, but do you also give the AL Pennant to the Yankees, or the AL division series banner to the Red Sox? No, what people want is for the title to be stripped from the Astros and struck from the history books. There should simply be no World Series winner that year, and the No Classtros fans can get bent with all of their, “Flags fly forever,” bullcrap.
The Dodgers themselves have also stated that they don’t want to be given the title. To your point, I agree this is simply about not allowing the Astros to keep it.
I think it’s pretty irresponsible for this article to focus on two Dodger players and ignore the other players, including Mike Trout, who have also been critical of Manfred’s lack of action and supported stripping the Astros out their title.
I voted no because it’s not fair to the AL teams the Astros cheated against in the playoffs to get to and win the World Series. In that case who knows if the other AL teams cheated against could beat the Dodgers in a 7 game series. We’ll never know who would win that WS and just to hand it over to the Dodgers is not right to the other AL teams that were cheated against in the playoffs. You either have no WS champion 2017 or you just recognize that the Astros won the WS in 2017 but cheated for it like the White Sox will always be known for their WS scandal.
The poll makes no mention of giving the title to anyone else, just stripping it from the Astros, So your reasoning for voting no holds no weight.
By the end of 2017, it seems like a lot of teams knew or had suspicions of the Astros stealing signs. Word gets around player to player, coach to coach. I am not trying to excuse Houston here as what they did was shameful, but do we know how effective their sign stealing process was in the playoffs? Most teams have 10+ variations of signs and if the Dodgers were aware that there might be some shady things afoot in Houston, one would think they would have continually changed signs each inning or even for each batter to make it much harder to decode. Most people seem to think the Astros were able to steal the sign on every pitch the opposing team threw. After some initial research, it seems like hitters were alerted via audio signals from 2% of their ABs to up to 20% of their ABs and who knows if they got them all correct or not. Again, not siding with Houston; just pointing out that there were preventive measures available to limit the success of their cheating. I’d like to hear if the Dodgers changed their signs for the Astros series and kept doing so to keep them off guard. Getting one sign correct in the WS using this method is too much but it would be interesting to find out how frequently it was used against the Dodgers and if they were accurate or not.
The players and pretty much everyone in the league outside of the Astros organization certainly seem to think it was extremely significant. I haven’t seen or heard one single person from an organization outside of the Astros say anything to the contrary. It seems quite obvious that it gave them a significant edge. The Astros players aren’t even denying it gave them a big edge.
if so many teams were suspecting the Astros of these horrible offenses against the game in 2017, why didn’t we see a lot of headhunting then? or in 2018?
It’s said that this is the way players have traditionally discouraged such behavior. What I’m seeing is that teams knew what the Astros were doing, but they didn’t take drastic measures in response… because those teams were doing their own version of electronic sign-stealing right back in the Astros’ face.
Exactly….Ask the league to investigate the Astros and many other teams would have to be looked at too…including the Red Sox, Yankees, Indians etc.
That could be a reason as why Manfrend didn’t investigate nor punish the Astros as hard as he could’ve. Manfred to other owners: If I do a thorough investigation, I’m gonna have to thoroughly investigate your teams as well just to make sure you’re clean.
All MLB teams steal signs.
An investigation of all MLB teams would catch at least a dozen or more other ballclubs doing similar things to the Astros…
Astros got caught.
MLB and fans are trying to make them scapegoats…for a league wide problem.
If you can quantify that the cheating won Houston games during the World Series or playoffs then I say you have to strip it.
Title should be vacated, I agree with all about the money talks, so fine the team the World Series profits and take away the playoff and series money share from the players, all players. I would think that would help teams police themselves if players not involved risked losing their share of the money
They should change Houston’s 2017 World Series trophy. Instead of having flags on the top of the 30 flagpoles on the trophy, they should put little cameras on top of each pole instead.
This is going the be a fun exercise! Let’s start vacating titles that were boosted to some indeterminate degree by cheating. Let’s start with championship teams with Andy Pettite on them, or David Ortiz, or Alex Rodriguez, or Gary Sheffield, or Roger Clemens, or Mark McGuire, or Manny Ramirez or Melky Cabrera (he helped them get there!)…etc.
Leave the championship the way it is, we all know what happened, just like we all know who juiced.
MIght as well vacate all the last 5 Yankees titles and some of the Red Sox Titles etc..
I think a lot of people read the polling question wrong. “Would Manfred have gone too far in taking away the Astros’ championship?” So a “yes” supports them keeping the trophy and a “no” supports stripping the title away.
There is no way to prove that the Astros would have lost but for cheating. Therefore I believe they shouldn’t take it away.
I read it incorrectly at first myself.
The only solution is for Manfred to vacate the title.
End of story.
There it is.
No one won the World Series in 2017.
That is the punishment required.
Without it there is no punishment.
Nah, that’s not the only solution. The punishment from the fans will be more severe than anything MLB could dish out.
All these dodgers and Yankees fan voting I see
Right because we’re the only ones who think Houston should be stripped of their false title. The only people who don’t think that should happen are Astros fans who like to throw it around like it’s a badge of honor.
Your team stole their “championship”. They defrauded an entire league and the fans who paid good money to see a fairly contested baseball game. Name one other profession where you could steal from your employer and still keep your job.
They should not be striped. Pure and simple.
A “yes” vote to this question means people do not think the title should be taken away, so I’m guessing much more than Yankee & Dodger fans are responding. It was a poorly worded poll question.
They must have corrected the wording because it’s pretty straightforward now showing people want the title stripped overwhelmingly–assuming they knew what they were answering
Now, will fans vote to strip the Yankees of their last 5 titles because of teams loaded with doped up, cheating, roided up players?!
This Dodger fan says no. This Dodger fan says strip Price of his ownership and ban him forever from baseball. Why not start a poll with that question?
I’m surprised you’re saying no.
Why should you be? I’ve been consistent on this from the start. I’d get no satisfaction from of the Astros being stripped of their trophy. That fixes nothing. But I would get some out seeing Crane (sorry, I typed Price before) thrown out of the owner’s club because that would at least start to repair the damage to the game’s integrity.
While I do like the idea of stripping their title, I think a better option than stripping it would be to ban them from the post-season for at least 1 season. Stripping their title in 2017 would be appreciated but useless.
Why not both? What should have happened was this: vacate the 2017 World Series along with every Astros win and any individual awards. Force players on the 40-man roster to pay back their salary to MLB for the 2017 season, including playoff bonuses and suspensions of at least one year.
All of these extreme solutions have a domino affect on all of baseball. They just can’t do that because it will affect every team.
It wouldn’t be useless. You would never more be considered a 2017 World Series Champion. You must earn the right to be called a champion. Cheating does not earn you that right.
The Astros still have a good team. Imagine they make it back to the World Series. Holy cow will that be crazy.
When will the players union start representing the players who weren’t cheating?
The 99%
I’ve never heard of a union contesting an existing paying union member. Not saying it can’t happen. But, I think it goes against everything they stand for. Which is morally wrong, but contractually right.
strip manfrog of his clothes and put some tar and feathers on him.
I think the players should be punished. They should be suspended, fined, all that jazz. But I have never understood the concept of vacating titles or vacating wins. I don’t really see what it accomplishes to rewrite history like that. I don’t see why we can’t say “The Astros won this trophy by cheating, a lot of people lost their jobs, and a lot of HOF caliber players will probably never get in now” and leave the rest.
Because MLB is not officially saying it on the trophy, in the record books, or with their punishment or lack thereof. They just are saying, the Astro cheated, they had an advantage, 2 managers got suspended and $5M from Houston for not stopping it. And Astros benefitted and won, no comment by MLB on winning.
Injustice to Rest of the league. My opinion
While I would have liked to see some player suspensions or fines, I think the real player punishment is going to come from the fans at the road ballparks this year. This team is going to face the worst crowd heckling / booing ever seen in the sport. They might try to rally around it at first, but it is going to take a real toll on them eventually. 81 games of being harassed for 3+ straight hours will be extremely demoralizing and if it stays as fervent in September as it will be in April then it may actually result in players like Springer wanting to leave the team in FA versus signing up for another year + of it (it will eventually die out). The Houston players will find out first hand just how upset true baseball fans are about this and it’s going to be very interesting to see how it impacts the Astros team.
Sign stealing began in the 1870s. You don’t need cameras and high tech. Anyone can sit in the stands with a pair of binoculars. If my hat is on it’s a fastball, if my hat is off it’s a breaking ball.
21st century Black Sox.
Give me a break.
It’s a game. It’s not cancer. They cheated. It sucks. They got away with it. That sucks. Learn from it and move on. People are going to cheat until the next asteroid strike, but the people in charge need to try to stay ahead of the cheaters. This time it didn’t work. Sucks, however you can strip all the titles you want, keep roid heads and habitual gamblers out of the HOF, but you cannot completely stop a-hole from trying to game the system. Thankfully it’s a game and not the corona virus or cancer. On to 2020
Already liked Turner, but props to him and all the others for speaking out and not being afraid to go against the league talking points. Whether they take it away or not, it’s obviously a joke if Houston keeps the banner up in the stadium. Reminds me of years back when Palmeiro got his 3000th hit and the o’s put up a huge banner about it on the warehouse. Then a few weeks later he got suspended for peds and the banner was gone the next day.
Exactly! But HOU management and ownership wouldn’t possibly point out to their fans (and children) that the 2017 team was found guilty of cheating from top to bottom.
Strip the title and leave vacant. Remove cameras, allow only one challenge per game using only managers naked eye. Umpires make the calls with their naked eyes from only feet away. If the manager thinks the call was bad from his view 90 feet away, go for it. Remember, replay was put in so a team would not lose a game to a bad call. So, one challenge only without camera aid. If manager thinks it will possibly change the game, go for it.
Look stripping the team of the title is never going to happen and i know they were given immunity to talk about everything so they wont be suspended. However, i think each player who is confirmed to have participated should have their name removed from their jersey and replaced with CHEATER for the entire season. So every day they are reminded of what they did and how they tainted the game.
I think stripping the title will at least make some players think twice before cheating as it affects them directly as the whole year’s worth of baseball will come to nothing in that case.
By just firing the manager and the GM, the players can still cheat and think they can get away with it without any consequences.
May 15th – Yankees. Can’t miss game
Granting player immunity was a huge mistake. They cheated. Suspending a manager or GM was overcome by firing them and getting new ones. Zero loss. A couple draft picks and some pocket change was the big penalty? They cheated. Pete Rose is banned from the fame for betting on his team to WIN – and didn’t cheat doing it.
The Houston players are going to get plenty of punishment by the fans. Not only at the ballpark, but at restaurants/bars while on the road, checking into hotels, walking through airports…basically anywhere outside of Houston. If they make a playoff run this year, I will be very surprised as this is going to be the most difficult season of their professional careers and it will take a real toll on a lot of them.
I love how the players union is the one that screwed all the players over and they are asking for Manfreds head
The title is not that important in my eyes. If anything I think keeping up shrines to the 2017 title would be a reminder of what happened.
Now what I would like is active players who were involved suspended for a year and all players involved banned from coaching, winning awards, or being eligible for the HoF. That’s what would be the most efficient. Let the other players come back and have awkward careers like Ryan Braun or Cano.
The Dodgers Yankees and Astros should be declared co champions since no legitimate winner won.
I hereby declare the Dodgers, Yankees, and Astros go-champions.
Now what?
complete garbage.
Will Yankees give back their titles?!
All MLB teams steal signs.
An investigation of all MLB teams would catch at least a dozen or more other ballclubs doing similar things to the Astros…
Astros got caught.
MLB and fans are trying to make them scapegoats…for a league wide problem.
If the Astros wanted to generate some good will, they would voluntarily take down the WS banner and give back the trophy.
Everyone agrees what Houston did was veryyy wrong. Only Houston fans are against it and some would agree with anyone else but afraid to say anything.
I’m an Angels fan and I think they should keep their trophy.
I dont care if they strip the Astros World Series but giving it to the Dodgers would not be right.
They did not win it. Just put it down as there was no winner due to cheating.
The Dodgers earned the right to be there. The Yankees have an argument they should have been there too. It’s the Astros own fault and they knew what could happen. It’s on the Astros
Best road wRC+ next to murderers row and they didn’t earn the right to be there. The Yankees scored what, 3 runs at MMP all series? And that was after Beltran was already with their club the year before? And he told the Astros their sign-stealing was “behind?’ These Dodger fans really are out here.
Teams should hand out drums when the Astros come to town
Altuve could have got that tattoo yesterday for all we know. It proves nothing.
If you don’t get caught at time it is history. good cheating bad cheating is part of baseball hypocrisy.. gaylord perry spitball, ty cobb racist killed someone. hall of fame. clemens and bonds etc bad cheating. steroids bad baseball good in nfl . If we are going to go back. Find the black players when ruth played? carl lewis failing tests before olympic and being covered up.. tony larussa in hall of fame. his career made off of players who may have done steroids.. justin gaitlin two failed drugs test still running.
It’s stupid to nullify a World Series title. It’s equally wrong, if not moreso, to grant it to the Dodgers instead of a different AL team like the Yankees or Red Sox who were also beaten by the Astros. I don’t even know what a vacation of a World Series title would actually mean. This isn’t some half-assed clusterfuck NCAA system where fat-cat administrators roll in the big dough and make decisions just to remind people of how top-heavy and corrupt the entire system might be.
Where does it stop? Every team with a PED user gets banned from the playoffs? Lifetime bans for the first PED offense (because you KNOW the player was using on a regular basis for an extended length of time before being caught). Vacating historical MVPs, All Star appearances, etc etc etc. It never stops.
There are too many posters seeking ultimate vengeance no matter the cost. This punishment was enough to set an example without completely destroying a franchise. Then again, maybe the rage machines here would rather see another MLB strike? Manfred was between a rock and a hard place. I don’t like him much and I don’t think he makes particularly good decisions, but there was little he could actually do here.
There are teams that played all year to get there. Is it their fault the Astros cheated. Declaring a three team tie should be considered. PED abuse is mostly a personal thing. This was the team. The team knew. They should not be rewarded.
Replay the World Series lol
Some players have been injured. Kershaw is not the same. It can’t be the same
Exactly. You can’t undo it and you can’t give the trophy to a team that didn’t win.
On October 9, 1996, the Yankees trailed the Orioles 4–3 in the bottom of the eighth inning when shortstop Derek Jeter hit a deep fly ball to right field. Right fielder Tony Tarasco moved near the fence and appeared “to draw a bead on the ball”[3] when the then-12-year-old Maier clearly reached over the fence separating the stands and the field of play nine feet below and snatched the ball with his glove. While baseball fans are permitted to catch (and keep) balls hit into the stands, the Major League Baseball rulebook states that spectator interference is to be called if “a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field, and touches a live ball”[4].
Reggie Jackson earned the nickname Mr. October because of his bat. But a baserunning play swung the 1978 World Series in favor of Jackson’s New York Yankees. Did Jackson intentionally move his hip into a throw? Or was he just in the right spot at the right time?
youtube.com/watch?v=tvWKWvrVfrI
You are comparing a spontaneous act with the willful actions of a team over the course of a season? Get real
No but its a meaningless title.
The steroid era doesn’t have any asterisks, but who the heck doesn’t look at it differently?
Manfred is a idiot..
AJ Hinch is such a tool. Saying what a joke to the allegations of them stealing signs. He’s the joke
It’s not going to happen unfortunately but an asterisk would be acceptable so it’s never forgotten that they won that “piece of metal” unfairly
TOTAL HYPOCRISY!
While I do not support or condone it, professional sports appears to be rampant with cheating and questionable results.
Professional sports are hard to watch at times.
The officiating should be investigated since it often makes very obvious errors and miscalls even though it has ready access to top TV and replay technology and almost unlimited amounts of cash on hand.
If I were a cynic, then maybe I would wonder if the officiating, at times, slants towards teams in more lucrative TV markets.?!
Why else would crucial calls be blown/missed on what appears to be routine bases despite some of the most expensive, state of the art cameras positioned from every angle at every game especially playoff games?!
Where are the calls for the Yankees to give up their last 5 World Series Titles?!
YANKEES “Won” those last 5 WS Titles with ROSTERS LOADED WITH CHEATING “ROIDED UP “.. players.
Maybe the last 5 Yankees Titles should be Stripped or Asterisks added?!
What about the Patriots who have made various forms of cheating an art form?!
Perhaps, the NFL should strip the Patriots of multiple titles?!
The Astros had the best team in baseball in 2017..
The supposedly did most of their cheating at their home park?!
They, why would their road record be even better than their home record?!
The The 2017 Astros boasted a 53-28 record in road games, which tied for first in the Majors. In fact, their road winning percentage of .654 eclipses their percentage of games won at Minute Maid Park, which is .593.
In the 81 games played outside of Houston, the Astros scored 501 runs, which is also best in the Majors this season.
In fact, the Astros were first or tied for the No. 1 rank on the road in home runs at 123, RBI at 472, and batting percentage at .284.
So if the Astros were cheating at home, then they were very bad at it lol!
The Astros actually played better on the road when they were not cheating.
All that for everyone to tell you, buzzers were used on the road. Completely obvious and makes total sense. You have no camera on the road, so watching the game from the stands with binoculars and a high tech remote to control buzzers was even more effective then banging on the trash can, hence the better record on the road.
Good luck watching your astros not make the playoffs for the next 5 years lol
And rosters loaded with juiced players? Aroid in 09 and Clemens and pettite in late 90s/early 00s were the only known users and that doesn’t even compare to a whole franchise cheating when no one else was.
There is no proof that they ever used buzzers….That was a fake rumor on the internet that has been denied and debunked.
We will see won’t we. You think maybe Manfred has a deal in place to make sure nothing comes out about this so he doesn’t lose his job?
Not an Astros fan per se.
However, they do have some of the best talent in MLB.
With Dusty managing and their top, young talent, it is very likely the Astros make the playoffs for the next 5 years and probably get at least 1 more WS title out of it.
And you might say, what happened in the playoffs then on the road? Catchers aren’t using multiple signs in April when they are playing at home. In the playoffs, multiple signs are used because of the magnitude of the games, as well as teams becoming more aware of what the astros were doing.
Astros had the better team top to bottom.
Every team steals signs,,,it is nothing new.
You are saying the Yankees and Red Sox don’t steal signs?!
Not with high tech cameras, buzzers, and trash cans. But weren’t you mentioning evidence above? Pretty hypocritical since there has been zero evidence of the Yankees doing it other than what you think the Yankees do. Astros got caught, and it’s only astros fans that are trying to flip it on everyone else.
Until the Yankees get caught or anyone else. The only ones cheating are the astros and Red Sox. But I only think Red Sox did it when Cora was there.
That’s a false narrative 0000. Stealing signs is gamesmanship. All teams do it. The issue is the tactic the Astros used. It was a blatant rules violation to employ technical devices to steal signs.
You astros fans are too much. You literally changed your name to sportsfan0000 to try and stick up for your team without it seeming like they are your team. Lol
Red Sox and Yankees were caught stealing signs in 2017.
The only talk about buzzers was in 2019 and came from a fake Twitter account. Buzzers were not used ANYWHERE in 2019. After 2017 there was no live feeds ANYWHERE that the players or coaches could access. Because of that FACT, they could not relay signs in real time. If you can’t relay the sign about the pitch about to be thrown a buzzer does not do any good.
The problem with steroids was that they were insidious. Every team had users. The Red Sox even had a doctor in spring training to warn the players of steroid use, but he also explained the safest way of using them, and gave tips on how not to be caught. The Mets had the same thing. The Braves had a problem with users. Every team had the problem with steroid user, so you can’t just single out the Yankees.
The real scandal surrounding the Astros is that the sign stealing came from the front office down.
Strip the title, take back the trophy, remove the banner. You don’t get to keep what you stole.
Put the trophy in the HOF with its own display and let everyone see it and read about it as a cautionary tale.
Cope
The players have already gotten their (paltry these days) bonuses for the playoffs, and picked up some extra endorsement bucks…..
The owner has already cashed in on the inevitable increased revenues a World Series victory brings…….
Take away the title…nobody will care except the fans.
A bunch of butt hurt cry baby dodger and yankee fans “we would of won” “vacate the title“ “title with an asterisk”. “ Manfred has to go” if he would of looked in to before my team would of won. GIVE IT A REST! I personally think the yanks and dodgers were the not as good as the Astros that year PERIOD. Would of won without it sounds terrible but I can’t blame them for trying to get a competitive edge just how they deployed it but somehow people think this worse than PED’S and now the game is “tainted” forever like it hasn’t been stained for years. You can pat yourselves on the back if it makes you feel better to say that they been artificially stripped in you’re mind and didn’t really happen and think you’re favorite team was “robbed” but facts are facts and Astros won. Punishment has been handed down and the scapegoats were fired. I’m not sure what more people want. Literally want half a team suspended for stealing signs like somehow stealing signs than almost every players for years juicing under selig but yeah making improvements to the game what a monster Manfred is. Not saying Astros are gonna go the WS this year gonna prove a lot of cry babies wrong
The Yankees owned the Astros at Yankee Stadium in 2017. The Yankees were by far the better team.
You, as an Astros fan* “personally think the yanks and dodgers were the not as good as the Astros that year PERIOD.”
Shocking.
The Astros didn’t seem to think they were as good if they had to cheat.
Not a Astros fan and as I said I can understand the need for an edge is what all teams do obviously can’t do it the way they did it with cameras in real time.
Never said we would have won. Never asked for the title to be handed to my team. Only asking for the cheaters to be punished so it puts some teeth into the rule. The Astros players cheated all of us, they need to pay.
Regardless of where you stand on this whole thing, MLB as a whole has mishandled this situation so poorly that it’s laughable. They weren’t blindsided by it and had ample time to prepare and every single publicly made comment has been a joke. Which goes to show who’s really running this circus. Astros should be stripped based on the proven evidence ALONE. Manfred should be fired.
I am an Angels fan. I want to see the Angels beat the Astros every game, but the anger over this is completely misplaced and frankly stupid as all get out.
The Astros were not the only team CAUGHT stealing signs that way in 2017. So were the Red Sox and Yankees. Do you idiots think that their playoff spots and winnings should be stripped too?
Considering how poorly the Dodgers played there is no way to say if they would have beaten the Astros without sign stealing. Game 7 was not close and it was in LA where stealing signs in the same way was not a possibility. No trashcan banging in LA.
The Dodgers were one of 8 teams that MLB said was probably stealing signs electronically in 2017, but that there was not enough evidence they did so AFTER the memo went out in September of that year. Should their pennant be stripped too?
It was 3 seasons ago. There is no way to do that today. It’s not possible technologically. Stop being wimpy cry babies and let it go.
Yankees have not been caught stealing signs. So good argument. LOL. The redsox cried wolf because the Yankees caught them doing it against them in 18. The Yankees have never even thought about cheating like that, because great franchises don’t do that.
So you are a Yankees fan? Typical denial from a Yankees fan.
“We actually do not have a rule against sign-stealing,” MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred told reporters last week. “It has been a part of the game for a very, very long time. To the extent that there was a violation of the rule here, it was a violation by one or the other [team] that involved the use of electronic equipment. It’s the electronic equipment that creates the violation.
Both were fined for improper use of electronic equipment in 2017.
Beltran brought the system the Astros used FROM the Yankees. They used it in 2015 through 2017 when they were caught.
Ok so we’re supposed to believe that shoddy investigation into the Yankees as 100% solid but you’re allowed to doubt their investigation that covered tens of thousands of emails because of “buzzergate?” Lol get outta here with your classy organization that just got done riding juice to multiple titles. You have no right to speak on cheating or unfair play. Steinbrenner got booted for trying to ruin Winfield’s life and you have the nerve to say Crane is a bad owner.
This is incorrect. The 8 teams reported were the Astros, Diamondbacks, Indians, Rangers, Cubs, Blue Jays, Nationals and Brewers.
Somehow missed red sox on the list. It was 8 additional teams to the Astros, red sox plus the teams I listed above. And even then, I believe that info came from the astros, so who knows if it’s true. Logan Morrison claimed the Dodgers and Yankees were also using cameras but gave no evidence to back it up.
The Yankees were caught in 2017. They were not named on the list of those that were allegedly doing it, since they were caught and fined.
The 8 teams did not include the Red Sox, Yankees or Astros who were CAUGHT stealing signs. The 8 teams were the Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Cubs, Brewers, Nationals, A’s and others. Only article I saw saying the Rangers, Blue jays or indians were involved was from Verducci.. I would not be surprised, i just never saw anything else saying that.
It was a former Dodger player that implicated them and the Brewers.
I remember the brewers claiming the Dodgers were stealing signs in the playoffs, but I think that was more of the classic, guy on second relaying info to the batter that only works when you have a guy on 2nd. Id be curious to read the account you’re referring to as I haven’t been able to find it.
I’m all for all of these teams being investigated. Another failure of Manfred is that he thinks he can just slap the Astros on the wrist and make this go away when most fans want the whole truth about the extent of the problem leaguewide.
Maybe they need to let catchers use technology to relay pitch calls or something like that. Something needs to be done.
But none of this changes the fact that one thing we do know is that the astros cheated to win the world series. Maybe other teams need to be punished as well, but the 2017 WS should have been stripped as that’s one that has been investigated and they were found guilty.
Pretty easy YES. At the very least they should get the dreaded asterisk next to their name!
Houston Astros 2017 World Champions*
*cheated
If you strip their title, you should strip Oakland and other teams that won titles with steroid users. Same argument, where it helped them when but there’s no way to prove how much. The banging could actually be proven pitch by pitch.
Yes of course. Since the title was removed then it was worth cheating.
This is literally shaking fists in the air and screaming at the clouds. Manfred has already said they will not strip the Astros of their championship, it’s not going to happen. MLB has never stripped a title or put an asterisk (despite what the delightful Billy Crystal named his movie) next to anything.
This ordeal is like any other and it to shall pass. Most of the outrage is ridiculous at this point. The Astros aren’t going to be contracted out of the league. The Dodgers can stop crying into their cheerios, they lost, get over it.
The Sox beat the supposedly unbeatable cheaters in the ALCS in ’18 and the Nationals took all four games in Houston in the World Series last year. Unless Dave Martinez is the greatest manager in baseball history most of the Astros cheating went for nothing.
Manfred is a clown, but he’s not going anywhere. It’s time to put this to bed and get ready to enjoy the new season.
What everyone is ignoring is that it is likely the Red Sox cheated when they won in 2018, so if you take HOU’s title you have to take BOS’s title as well.
The Astros’ fans who insist that the 2017 was legit also convince themselves their inflatable woman really loves them.
The 2017 title must be vacated immediately. Their mockery of the game simply cannot be sustained. Inaction guarantees the atrophy of the game. Time is of the essence.
Wow Canyon – too many Tom Clancy novels.
Not only would I strip the Astros of their titles; I would also delete all the counting stats for the past three years.
Strip them of the title. If Pete Rose is out of baseball, then why shouldn’t they…?
thank you for the easiest poll I have ever taken
Strip the Yankees last 5 World Series Titles for using teams loaded with “Roided up/ cheating players”.
2017 World Series – none
just like 1994
Without punishment there can be no forgiveness. It’s the only way the Astros will be allowed to move on.
jim – “Without punishment there can be no forgiveness.”
That would be a tough life to live for everyone if that was the standard.
Then relinquish 2009 and we’ll start there.
At this point, shouldn’t Manfred be stripped?
Astr*s ownership ought to change.
I’m a native Houstonian and a lifelong Astros fan. I grew up going to the dome in the 80’s and have followed the team even through the hard seasons. Astros baseball has always been in my life and my family’s life..
This whole thing has been an embarrassment for the city of Houston, the Astros franchise and on the sport of baseball. In my opinion, the title needs to be stripped from the Astros and left blank like 1994. Manfred’s punishment wasn’t enough.
Many Astros fans disagree. They’re delusional. They think it’s not a big deal and the Astros will prove everyone wrong in 2020.
I defended this team and laughed at the allegations until I read Manfred’s report.
“Players stated that if Manager A.J. Hinch told them to stop engaging in the conduct, they would have immediately stopped.”
After I read that line, I was done. That’s the mentality of my 5 year old son who knows he’s doing something bad but is wondering when daddy is going to catch him. Not a grown ass man getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. Every single player and employee had to know about this camera feed and the sign stealing system, especially those in the dugout. Were they too cocky (or stupid) to think no one would talk? That’s ignorant.
I think about Beltran and how they showed him crying after Game 7. Unbelievable. I think about Verlander, Keuchel, McCullers and every other pitcher who sat in the dugout on a day off. They had to be aware of what was going on. As pitchers, how could they be okay with this? I think about Game 1 of the 2017 ALDS where I witnessed first hand Altuve’s 3 HRs.
I question it all along with every other season since.
Am I done with the Astros. For now….yep. The organization needs to rebuild the trust of their fans. I’m definitely not going to spend a dime on this team until I feel like they’re worth it. I’ve had a lot of Astros fans call me soft or tell me that I was never a true fan. MMkay. There will be plenty of seats at Minute Maid Park. Enjoy the games. Your team lied to you and will continue to dodge the truth.
My Astros gear is boxed up and put away until this franchise can get it together.
Respect.
I read this whole diatribe. Good points were made within, especially for someone so obviously full of it. The Astros are crucified by real trolls, they don’t need this clear fake account nonsense too. Unnecessary, but have fun all the same.
Now, will fans vote to strip the Yankees of their last 5 titles because of teams loaded with doped up, cheating, roided up players?!
Not even the only team to steal signs, or win a championship in the year cheating was committed. You won’t be missed honestly. This sounds like what a Yankee fan pretending to be a Houstonian says.
I didn’t know the 17* Asterisks lineup could vote 4890 times on this page
Ok so they aren’t going to take their trophy away. Fine. And those players involved don’t get suspended. That’s even worse. But whatever. My thought is this…make the players that were involved pay a hefty fine. Make them pay a certain % of their salary and divide that money up among the Texas educators, firefighters, cops, etc (all those professions that we all know are under-paid for the work they do)! Why not?!
why no the LA area instead?
Vacate the title and consider it “no contest”. The only winners will be the Astros players because the players’ union won’t allow the players to be forced to return their rings and now these rings will become one of the most valuable collectible.
Manfred has to go. Awful punishment and he has just been horrible on every issue so far. I still say we can’t strip titles. I don’t like it but I don’t think that should happen. Banning people IS the answer but sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil; if you punish players or they think they will get punished, they won’t talk. Then we never ever know about this. That said, precedent here is to put the asterisk and cheapen those rings a little. Plus permanent bans for the masterminds (stat guys? Whomever).
Manfred is a clown.
Astros are Cheaters.
Wonder how many players bet the over that night when they played at home against the 3,4,&5 starters.
Trade Rumors going to do an Astros post per day based on these numbers. Next report: “Astros are still bad guys, other players say.” Followed by a poll, “Do you think the Astros are bad guys? Vote now!” Then, “More players mad at cheating Astros” and then a poll “Should players be mad at the cheating Astros?” Finally, it will just be, “Astros: NY and LA fans click here and be mad again about the latest rehashed summary of everything you’ve already read.” I don’t blame the site at all, seems these posts are doing hot stove-like numbers. Keep feeding the beasts.
Enough is enough. If children can’t comprehend that these sorts of things have been happening all throughout the history of the league, that there is no such thing as a pure player, coach, team, or person in this entire league, than children should stop watching baseball. I could care less about the Astros or the American league. The Astros aren’t anymore tainted than the A’s or Yankees. Let’s not pretend steroids didn’t happen. Let’s not pretend amphetamines didn’t happen. Let’s not pretend that the number of teams who have been disciplined for cheating is in the single digits. Grow up. Get off Twitter. Morons with zero power and nothing better to do complaining on the internet. Insane.
AGREE
THIS WHOLE FAN HYSTERIA IS A BIG FARCE.
Yankees have a long history of cheating.
Ditto with the Red Sox.
Now, will fans vote to strip the Yankees of their last 5 titles because of teams loaded with doped up, cheating, roided up players?!
Hope springs eternal.
Take back the trophy, rings and bonuses and be done with it.
Tigers fan here. Can’t see how you can justify stripping a title away from a team. Everyone acts as if sigh stealing hasn’t been going on for years in baseball. Hell, I know hitters on my HS and college teams used to steal sigh sequences while standing at second base and relay them to the hitter. No, they did not use technology, but do you all still consider this cheating?
You can’t go around stripping titles away from teams, it sets a bad precedent. If you do, anyone who has EVER been caught using steroids needs to have every one of the games they played in forfeited. To me, it sounds like a waste of time.
If it makes everyone happy to have an * next to their 2017 WS title, then by all means, put one on there. You all saying this are probably the same ones who think the Patriots should have negated the win during “deflategate” when the ball made the Patriots win 45-7. Get out of here with that…..
Why not vacate the title? It’s just a meaningless “piece of metal” so no big deal, right Rob?
Stripling the title would appease a lot of fans but, when it comes to deterrence, money is what moves the needle with players. Fine every player implicated half of their 2017-19 salaries.
cheating was only revealed by mlb for the 2017 season. if you cheated at work, would you want to forfeit half of three years pay?
This is a nice poll to keep the topic alive, but the reality of the situation is Manfred has proven he’s stubborn and will dig his heels in, and that’s exactly what he’s doing here. He will NEVER strip the Astros of their WS title. As far as he’s concerned, his investigation and decision to give the players immunity was “perfect.” And after all, he’s a “precedent guy,” remember?
Manfred has been an awful commissioner. He is obsessed with fundamentally altering the game in ways that if you told a fan 15 years ago what would be happening in 2020, they’d laugh at you.
He is absolutely enamored by the idea of shortening game times, yet none of his brilliant ideas to that end have had any real impact. As he pursues his quest, he neglects the biggest problems that exist in the sport (I.e. holding umpires accountable, making sure teams that are beneficiaries of revenue sharing actually spend that money on improving the team, etc.).
Hopefully this situation becomes so untenable for MLB that there’s no choice but to can Manfred, and by all accounts it is certainly headed in that direction.
What would motivate a good person, who has no skeletons in their own closet (and, thus, not be projecting), to defend cheaters?
Basic starting point….
Do we want more or less cheating?
If the answer is less, we need standards and ethics.
If the answer is more, carry on…
Money, tv contracts, money, “growing the sport,” and money all trump standards and ethics in the eyes of Major League Baseball, Manfred and the 30 owners.
players were not warned of discipline from employer.
manfred should have placed a gag order on players
any starting pitcher throwing at any batter needs a five start suspension since position players get 5 games
25% say no to vacating the title. Either this site is 25% Astros fans or you people who try to speak on behalf of all fans everywhere are indeed as dumb as you sound.
25% are lawyers and know employer and union law
This whole thing has ruined one of my favorite movies, “The Natural”. Now when I see Glen Close stand up in her white dress, it feels like she’s telling Roy Hobbs it’s a fastball.
And in a way, its true.
its irrelevant. The games were played. The fans were either elated or depressed. The moment has passed. Steroids are way worse than sign stealing.
I do think the Astros’ title should be vacated, but I don’t think you can just turn around and award it to the Dodgers. It kinda reminds me of a couple years ago in cycling when a guy won a race, it was found out a couple years later that he had doped while he won, so they stripped his title and awarded it to the guy who finished second place. The first thing he said when he accepted the title was that it didn’t feel like he won. Take the title away but don’t award it to someone else, just leave it blank.