Five days ago, the Boston Red Sox almost traded 2018 MVP Mookie Betts to the Los Angeles Dodgers in a three-team deal. As we now know, that trade fell apart. Today, it was replaced by a new deal. This time, the Red Sox and Dodgers took matters into their own hands while Los Angeles satisfied their other agreements in a separate deal with the Twins (while yet another portion of the deal was scrapped altogether).
The earth-shattering move here is Boston dealing a former MVP in his prime. Though the Dodgers are only acquiring one season at $27MM, their books are relatively clean, and if nothing else, they are the prohibitive favorite to sign him long-term sometime next winter. But whether the Red Sox were wise to deal their young star – a player with 42 bWAR already on his resume – is not up for debate in this space. There’s clearly lots to sort out in cataloguing the pieces brought in by Dodgers’ President of Baseball Ops Andrew Friedman. But this isn’t the venue for that discussion either.
The financial aspect of this deal is difficult to process for many reasons. It’s no small feat to rid $75MM from the ledger in one fell swoop as the Red Sox did today. And yet, that the Boston Red Sox would be financially motivated to move one of the best players in the sport is beyond comprehension. Still, the financial numbers stayed relatively the same from version one to version two of this deal, so that can be tabled as well for now.
This space is all about parsing the Red Sox’ return. Let’s quickly review the specifics.
In version one, the Red Sox were to receive two players: Alex Verdugo from the Dodgers and Brusdar Graterol from the Twins. This time around, prospects Jeter Downs and Connor Wong are heading to Boston with Verdugo. Without seeing the medical reports that gave the Red Sox pause over Graterol, the two frameworks provide a fun what-if for the rest of us to ponder. The question here is obvious: should the Red Sox have stuck with Graterol? Or did they improve their return by swapping in Downs and Wong?
Graterol surged through the Twins’ system last season, reaching the majors less than a week after his 21st birthday. The hard-throwing righty earned his keep in a small sample, striking out 10 batters in 9 2/3 innings and finishing with a 4.66 ERA/3.42 FIP. MLB.com put him at #83 on their top 100 prospects list, while Baseball America came in a little more bullish with a #60 overall ranking. His talent isn’t in doubt – not with a sinker and four-seamer both clocked at 99 mph – but questions about his long-term health drove the the Red Sox to check behind door number two. If Graterol’s ceiling is that of a bullpen fireman, that’s a valuable asset – especially come playoff time. But even a move to the bullpen doesn’t guarantee the long-term viability of his right arm. Still, pitchers with Graterol’s stuff are rare birds and valuable commodities – even with one arm surgery already on the books.
Then there’s door number two. Downs had a big season at High-A last year after the Dodgers acquired him as the tax for taking on Homer Bailey in the Alex Wood/Yasiel Puig trade with the Reds. The 21-year-old Downs hit .269/.354/.507 in High-A before earning a promotion to Double-A in 2019. He showed well there, too, though only in a 12-game sample. He is likely to begin the year at Double-A for the Red Sox, but he’s climbing prospect boards. MLB.com put him at #44 overall, while Baseball America has him at #86. Most outlets peg him as the second baseman of the future, though he’s played more shortstop than second to this point.
Wong, 23, started the year at High-A last season as well. He finished exceptionally strong, however, putting up an impressive .349/.393/.604 line through 40 games in Double-A. Despite those gaudy numbers, he’s not as highly ranked. His power is legit, but he does strike out nearly 30% of the time, and he’s not yet walking at an average rate. Fangraphs’ had him as the Dodger’s #13 ranked prospect last season with a future value score of 40+, talent level appropriate for a bench role. For contract, Fangraphs has both Downs and Grateral with a 50 FV score. Were those ratings to come to fruition, Downs would project as an average regular, while Graterol could project as a back-end starter or potential late-inning reliever.
The debate largely centers on how much one wants to gamble on a high-end pitcher. But even the aerial view minimizes how much this deal really hinges upon the specific players involved.
To add one final wrinkle to this question, let me add this tweet from The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal. He says, “A number of baseball people saying #RedSox did well. Verdugo, Downs, project as regulars; Wong has good arm, power. Also moved half Price’s money. Deal at least comparable to what #DBacks got for Goldy, who cost less than Betts in walk year and had no other contracts attached.”
Whether you agree with Rosenthal’s people or not, the Paul Goldschmidt deal is certainly an interesting touchstone. Just a year ago, the Diamondbacks received Carson Kelly, Luke Weaver, Andy Young and a competitive balance round B draft selection in exchange for one season of Goldy. For simplified context, Betts is a 27-year-old stellar defensive right fielder coming off a 6.8 bWAR season, while Goldschmidt was a 31-year-old first baseman coming off a 5.4 bWAR season.
Of course, the dollar savings factor into a comparison to the Goldschmidt trade, as Goldy made just $14.5MM last season. The Diamondbacks trade was motivated more about returning value for a player they weren’t likely to extend. The Red Sox motivations are similar, though they’re also getting out from under David Price’s contract. Not for nothing, but Price remains a viable major league starter.
Also muddying the waters here is how one views Verdugo’s future. He’s long been a player projected for stardom, though a deep player pool and injuries slowed his ascent in Los Angeles. And there remain questions about his overall makeup as well. Still, he’ll turn just 24-years-old in May, and it wasn’t long ago that he was the top prospect in a Dodgers’ system that has continued to churn out big league players.
Last season was his first with regular playing time, and he made good with a .294/.342/.475 line with 12 home runs in 106 games before an oblique strain cost him most of the rest of the year. He’s got great bat-to-ball skills, and his defense is solid enough that he can man centerfield for a time if that’s a need. He’s a promising young player, but he’ll have big shoes to fill in Boston.
I’m giving you the chance to overrule Boston’s Chief Baseball Office Chaim Bloom. Which return would you prefer?
(Poll link for app users)
(Poll link for app users)
Interesting poll, I wonder what other prospects could have been traded instead of Downs, but other than that I like the deal.
I find it more interesting the full return the steins got from LA. Much more than initially reported.
I think the dodgers were pretty firm on holding on to their high end starting pitching prospects. To get into those you probably were swapping verdugo and downs out and taking a SP + wong.
That said, they did get a mlb-ready replacement OF, and, they got ahold of someone who has potential to replace pedey
I do wonder speaking of pedey though… would he consider retiring and taking a 4 yr 20m contract to be bench coach? It’s kind of like what he’s been doing the last 2 years anyways, and would lift 13m off the cbt.
There is no way the Union and MLB would let that kind of deal with Pedroia happen
Shield – how could they stop it?
Retirements are retirements. You can’t force someone to keep playing, and like outrighting castillo off the 40man and lifting 10s of millions off the booKS I’m not aware of a CBA provision against it.
Likewise, unlike ownership shares, staff contracts don’t need mlb approval the way player ones do. Being an employee of the team is different than being a player.
They may not like it, but, I’m unaware of HOW they actually stop it. If you know of a relevant rule, please advise.
He has to retire first, and then can resign another deal. Not sure the specific legalities involved, but it would start with Pedey announcing his retirement from MLB as a player.
Even though cash flow would be spread out I think Pedey’s original contract value would be used to calculate CBT level.
Look into how the Mets bought out David Wright…. don’t know all the particulars….. but Pedroia would have to be handled similarly.
Cute idea, AtlSox, but a non-starter. If nothing else, the commissioner can step in and kill that kind of deal under his “best interest of the game” powers, which are limited only by his need to be supported by most of the owners.
It would be transparent what they’re doing, and it would set an obvious precedent for a way to get around the tax. 20-25 owners would oppose that
Not necessarily. You see, teams don’t have to announce financials on employees. Only players. So if they wanted to do that, they could. No one would know he was making that much.
Jkurk- kind of like how a-rod joined the yankees on an unspecified agreement after his retirement and before getting into tv.
Great idea, but will never happen unfortunately.
Yup
It was a better deal for the Red Sox but they came out looking shady as hell and other teams will second guess doing business with them.
Dodgers played their hand and were in too deep to back out so RS took advantage despite having access to medical records prior to changing their mind.
Oh, they had medical records prior to changing their minds? Someone should probably let his attorney know
Yeah, I think the Red Sox heard the negative backlash, saying they didn’t get enough, and so o save some face they had to scramble to try and get something better..
Good for them though, I much rather prefer the new deal. Graterol has a ton of talent, but it is just too risky and pitchers are generally alot more volatile. Downs is the safer bet to be a more valuable contributor down the road, and that’s what the Red Sox need right now..
They can’t afford to blow this return, so I think it was a smart move taking Downs and the other prospect over Graterol..
I think the name “Jeter” might subconsciously be getting Red Sox fans a bit too excited. The kid was a Low-Level Prospect, spending essentially the entire year in Single A ball, with a handful of games at AA late in the year. Even Wong spent much more time at AA than Jeter Downs, and he was the Dodgers 4-5th best catching prospect… Settle down Sox fans. This Jeter kid won’t, and shouldn’t, see the Big Leagues until 2022 at the earliest.
That’s not true at all. He will see major league time at the end of 2020 or the beginning of 2021 at the latest as long as he performs as expected. You just pulled 2022 out of nowhere.
I’ve liked Downs since LA robbed Cincy of him. While anything can happen, it’s hard to find anything negative. Generally, what I look at is:
1-Pedigree, and he was drafted #33 overall.
2-Good K/W-97/54 is decent, though certainly not outstanding.
3-Age/level appropriate-He competed well in AA at age 20/21, which is quite good.
4-Positional fielding-SS indicates some range, but the amount of errors at SS is huge. However, his play as 2B looks good in transition, and we already have a SS, and Chavis is still a ? at 2B.
I assume he will start off at AA, be promoted to AAA later this year. Start off at AAA in 2021 and be promoted to the RS early 2021, depending on need.
Of course, at his age, there is no need to rush him either. All that matters is getting 6+ good years out of him, at any age.
Agreed, and they did not want another washout like Carson Smith or Tyler Thornberg
Not true
Will never know the truth given MLB is not providing immunity…
A team is only allowed access to a players medical records after a deal has been reached in principle and submitted to the commissioners office. There was concern after studying the reports that he was not being used in the bullpen because he was a young player getting his feet wet. But being used there because of physical limitations.
the Dodgers hot s much better deal this puts them probably in the WS while the red Sox won’t be on the playoffs for many years
Yes. The Red Sox took advantage by trading their 26 year old MVP in the prime of his career.
I always see this when something “not right” happens in a trade and it never comes true. Teams still trade with the team in question.
No one would’ve cared so much if it wasn’t such a high profile trade. Medical problems flare up all the time in physicals causing problems in deals. Spring trading being so close and all eyes on this trade is what’s really causing a bad look.
That is false, as a Red Sox fan you should recall what happened when they traded for Poneranz and finding out his injuries were much worse,than reported. Remember he had stem cell injections.
Crooks
Teams still trade with Preller/SD, and he was actually supended for REAL misconduct in multiple trades, not just conspiracy theories by people who didn’t see the medicals or read the team dr reports in queation.
Of note, the dodgers did NOT do the straight up maeda for graterol trade either. They threw some stuff in to get a bigger return, but, part of that return can easily be expected to represent making up for whatever was in graterol’s med records.
Seriously guys? The Red Sox were smart to walk away from Graterol, especially after the Pomeranz deal. They knew Pomeranz had arm issues before trading for him. They didn’t know as bad as it was because the Padres GM hid his medicals.
Whenever prospects are involved the “perception” matters, and the perception is that the take from the Dodgers is better than the relief pitcher from MIN. May not turn out that way; Graterol may end up a stud, but Boston appears to have improved their return
Agreed. As I said earlier, the Sox envisioned a Nolan Ryan type stud prospect and then realized he was more likely another Joe Kelly.
Nolan Ryan type stud? If that’s what the Sox thought, they were dead wrong. That’s the problem here. Either they failed hard at researching the player, or unethically backed out of the trade following the reaction. As a twins fan, news was all pointing toward lowered expectations on him even just weeks before the trade. My sources were saying that the plan to have him in the crowded mlb bullpen, rather than in the minors stretching out and working on his pitch selection really meant something changed.
Twins knew from using him, having all medicals and whatever file they had developed. A team looking to trade for any player hears rumors and of course has their own scouts. They probably also have a network in place to exchange some info with others but such cannot replace the accuracy of medicals. Trades have been voided before. Why can’t others accept that Boston saw “something” they liked that made them believe he could still be a starter but that changed when the medicals were looked at? We’ll never at this point know the truth. I could be wrong but to me the recent trades (CS & TT) as well as this was Mookie being dealt made the Sox look long and hard. The PR nightmare of blowing a trade, getting no one of value back could only be worse if the key player back was another reliever that couldn’t get on the mound.
The Dodgers sent a shortstop named Jeter to Boston.
You have to love that.
Wonder if he’ll wear number two.
oh please I hope Bogey gives him #2. there are at least 29 teams and fanbases who would giggle with joy to see that.
Bogey will never give him #2. Bogey was also a Jeter fan growing up and that’s why he has that number.
Could be Pedie’s replacement in the near future.
How about a Rays move Trade Jeter to Jeter for more prospects?
That was a funny post to start the day in the right way. Then sign Holt for a one or 2 year team friendly deal. I’m surprised he hasn’t been picked up.
He was also a 1st round pick
Chaim Bloom wilted under pressure and allowed his big brother Andrew Friedman to checkmate him into no man’s land.
Neither have a WS to show for their needless and ornate front office tinkering, as of yet. Time will tell.
Wilted under pressure? He basically got top-100 prospects and half of Price’s contract for potentially a year of Betts. Highway robbery by Bloom when you consider the pressure he was under by Henry and co.
How did he “check mate” him? I was skeptical the other day of Bloom, but he seems to have made an even better deal.
Bloom did not meltdown. He had a tuff job n delivered. Trading Mookie was the first job he hadta do, n he didn’t back down he stood firm about more in return. Bloom has had nothing but problems, not his making, since the hire. Losing Cora, n all the drama around Mookie, the payroll, n the commissioner’s report coming up. Give him a break please!!!
Thru 1,593 votes, 69% including me have chosen Version 2
Nice.
Again, the Sox traded ceiling (Graterol) for floor. IMHO, Graterol has stud potential, but obvious physical issues. I can see Downs as a starter on a contending team, just not a high impact one, and Wong as a backup power-hitting C who strikes out too much; tho to balance that, he is athletic enough to move around a bit.
Considering all the circumstances, the Sox did OK. NOW the question is where do they go from here.
Having not gotten a stud SP out of mookie I think 2020 is partly an audition year.
You’ve got some mlb retreads on make-good deals like perez and peraza.
You’ve got verdugo needing to prove his health is back to stay and that 2019 was real/not another half season flash in the pan like wil myers.
Aside the opening at the bottom of the rotation near perez is also an audition slot, depending if they keep JBJ, or, if they trade him you’ve got an OF opening.
If you want to get REALLY radical, dalbec platoons at 1b with moreland, perez tries to hold 2b, chavis/jdm cover LF, benny slides CF, verdugo hits rf, and jbj is traded or released with his salary or 8m savings bringing in a bottom end SP. (And maybe a cheap sp and cheap brock hold to back up LF and 2b on a rotating basis with chavis/holt/jdm/peraza covering 2b/LF by committee -obviously jdm in OF only)
Verdugo is no flash in the pan. Just a young guy injured. it happens. At every Minor level he hit 300+ and with the Dodgers was always fighting low level wannabees like KIki Hernandez and Taylor for playing time. He was never given the right field or any spot and told it’s yours. He would hit well then be platooned out of several games at a time even though he hits both righties and lefties well. The guy is a really good player with tremendous upside if they give him the position.. He should hit 2nd or first in the lineup, Dugie is that good.and will be missed in LA.
Graterol must of had some terrible medicals for all that to play out the way it did. He’s more valuable as a reliever than some run of the mill 2nd basemen prospect
Maybe the medicals combined with mechanics. They make you wince at thought of throwing that way 90-100 pitches possibly 30 times per year continuously. Can see why that thought, combined with whatever was found in something not possibly released medically called off that aspect of the deal.
What usually do see when a decent pitcher is swapped is some kind of pitcher coming back and none did to Boston. Wouldn’t shock me to see Downs + either Dalbec/Chavis packaged to get that decent prospective young kid now since LA was not willing here.
Boston can cover 2b for 2020 and believe Chatham can help later this year and 2021. My 2c was Downs may have just been looked at as someone to move themselves.
Issue is here that Boston will get hammered in a couple of weeks, and have a weak farm system to start. Pitching will be a big issue there, and still looks like they will lack of lot of it. Big loss for Boston, as they will drop back toward the middle of the pack.
We’re a lot, lot better than we were before this trade. Two guys that should become regulars, and are now under the cap.
INHO, it’s not close either.
@JoeBrady
I think Bloom and the Red Sox did really well regardless of the route they took to get here.
Adding Verdugo, Downs & Wong is a very solid return for 1 yr of Betts and paying down prices deal by 48m over 3 yrs. The Red Sox get to reset their CBT but more importantly they add an awful lot of potential future value from Verdugo, Downs & Wong.
From the dodgers perspective…they gave up
Maeda(+10m), Verdugo, Downs & Wong
for
Betts, Price(+48m), Graterol, Raley & the 67th pick in 2020 draft.
Now, I never would’ve thought that we would include both Verdugo & Downs in a Betts trade but I also never would’ve thought that we could get graterol and the 67th pick as part of a return so that kind of changes everything for me. The dodgers are obviously sold on graterol’s medicals. At that point it became about turning Downs future value at a middle infield position into graterol’s present value in the bullpen and/or the rotation. Looking at our organizational depth…that makes plenty of sense to me.
Bottom line…Maeda & Wong were beyond expendable.
Downs & Verdugo were the true cost.
The reward is 1 yr of Betts, 3 yrs of price at market rate, 6 yrs of the 21 yr old Graterol, the 67th pick in 2020 and another pick in 2021 if Betts doesn’t resign.
That seems like a pretty good return to me.
@itsgood2btheking
I think even Downs qualifies as a semi-expendable. He’s a legit prospect, and I am happy to get him, but I’m pretty sure he and Lux are covering the same position for LA.
But it just dawned on me. The RS use to have a guy that started off as a SS, had too many errors, and then switched to 2B in the minors, and then switched to RF because we had Pedrioa, then got traded to the LAD.
Maybe Downs follows the same path:)
Run of the mill 2nd base prospect? Downs had 24 HRs and 24 SBs in 119 games last year. It is doubtful Graterol’s medical problems are limited to his arm.
Downs did all of that work in Single A ball… Congrats! If he ever does actually make it to Boston, it won’t be until 2022 at the very earliest… Downs is low-level PROSPECT, while Graterol will be on the Opening Day roster for one of the top 3 rosters in all of baseball, bringing 100+ mph heat… Gimme a break.
They all start as low-level. He’s 21. Twenty years ago he was in diapers, but I won’t hold that against him. He is (was) the Dodgers’ #5 prospect, rated 55 (above average), and #87 in MLB. He’s 21. As a Dodger fan, I was sorry to see him traded.
Sorry to see him traded? As a Dodgers fan? As a Dodgers fan, aside from pairing Mookie Betts in the same outfield as Bellinger and sliding David Price into the #3 hole of the rotation, you should realize that with Corey Seager and Gavin Lux in the fold for years to come, this kid was as expendable as anyone. And spending the entire year in Single A ball at 21, he’s not ahead of the curve whatsoever. He would’ve been a 24-25 year old AAA player in the Dodgers farm system… Instead, we got a 21 year old flame-thrower ready to contribute OPENING DAY. And I’ll trust the Dodgers FO and doctors over any other teams’ 12/10 times… Lastly, we also received the #67 overall pick in this years draft, which Dodgers top-notch scouting department will undoubtedly use to find a much better talent than a Jeter Downs.
Downs did all of that work in Single A ball…
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Wrong! You should familiarize yourself with a site call Baseball Reference.
Correction: he did most of this in High-A ball, but 8 of his 24 HRs came in AA and he also batted over .300 in AA as well. So he elevated him game after being promoted towards the end of the year. He played most of last season at age 20 too. Very high upside in Downs considering his age and track record so far.
Daniel3 is a hater. I liked Downs when LAD acquired him. He was a fringy top-100 even at that point. After this season, I like him even more. A few more Ks than i usually like, but the AA season he had was very impressive for his age.
Correction: He played just 12 games and had a total of 48 AB’s at AA Tulsa.
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It’s adorable how much you “like” him @JoeBrady, but he was more than expendable for the Dodgers, with Seager and Lux locked into the middle infield and a loaded farm system… Perhaps the Red Sox farm can use him, but even their paltry system has guys ahead of Downs. The Dodgers moving him for Betts and Price at $15 mil a season now — no brainer.
And how about that Red Sox rotation? Yikes. Management should’ve addressed that glaring need before going for a mediocre+ middle infielder; they grow on trees.
I am glad you took my advice, researched your post, and corrected it. You’re welcome.
IRT Downs being expendable, have I ever disagreed with that? The entire basis for a good trade is to target players that you need, but that don’t fit the other team’s profile.
IRT the RS having guys ahead of him, again, I suggest that you read Baseball Reference, or any ranking system. We don’t have anyone better in the minors, and we have almost no 2Bs in the system.
IRT the rotation, again, it would’ve been nice. But the RS doctors say they don’t like his medicals. Since I am not a doctor, and didn’t see his charts, I can’t comment on that, and have to take their word on it.
Past that, I like the trade for the LAD. It is the kind of trade a team on the precipice needs to make. and I think you guys will really like Price.
But the stuff you originally posted was all wrong, and the RS organization is a lot better now than they were a week ago.
I knew he played only 12 games (48 AB’s) at AA from the beginning, as opposed to 107 games (412 AB’s). Most would consider wherever 412 of 460 AB’s (90%) were taken is essentially an entire season at that level. But nitpick all you’d like. And hitting in the .260’s in the Low Minors simply doesn’t jump off the page and grab my attention. Michael Chavis, someone who’s proven himself at the Majors, much less AA, isn’t in front of Downs? Not to mention, with the new payroll flexibility, the Sox won’t go out and spend some money on one of their few positions of need, 2B?
Red Sox needed arms, of any kind, rotation or relief. Perhaps Single-A phenom Jeter Downs can be flipped for some of that.
“But the stuff you originally posted was all wrong, and the RS organization is a lot better now than they were a week ago.”
Losing Betts and their 2/3 Starter for Verdugo & two prospects and the RS organization is a lot better now than they were a week ago… Oh boy.
Maaaybe you worded that WRONG. They’re in a “better position financially”, but you swung and missed there kid.
Danieley3 just hates the fact the Redsox have won 4 World Series in the last 16 years and the Dodgers keep falling short and have not won in 31 years. Hater, hater, hater….nasty attitude
Michael Chavis, someone who’s proven himself at the Majors, much less AA, isn’t in front of Downs?
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Not yet. I am guessig that he will stick, but that’s like a 51% choice. He had a hot start, but he had a .696 OPS in his final 286 PAs. And that .286 was with a .346 BABIP and an unsustainable 102/17 K/W. That’s a 36% K-rate. And even worse in his final 15 GS.
Not to mention, with the new payroll flexibility, the Sox won’t go out and spend some money on one of their few positions of need, 2B?
Red Sox needed arms, of any kind, rotation or relief. Perhaps Single-A phenom Jeter Downs can be flipped for some of that.
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Nope, Now that we obtained an OF & 2B, we should be looking for pitching with our new-found flexibility. Like I said, I’d have taken Graterol the SP instead of Downs, but I would take Downs over Graterol the RP.
It’s not even remotely close.
We obtained:
* 5 years of Verdugo
* 6+ years of Downs
* A lottery ticket in Wong
* Got under the cap, which means, if we wanted to, we could actually re-sign Betts, though I would recommend against it.
All for one year of Betts? Not even close imho.
Danieley3 just hates the fact the Redsox have won 4 World Series in the last 16 years and the Dodgers keep falling short
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Yup. I;m not sure what his attitude is all about. I think LAD did well here. They got, imho, the #2 player in BB, and an SP that I think will surprise the fans. But that doesn’t mean that the RS didn’t get what they wanted (utes) and that MN didn’t get what they wanted (price-controlled SP).
However, it’s done, and this RS fan is quite pleased. Unless Preller panicked, I didn’t think we’d get this much.
Now you’re just making stuff up to make yourself feel better
The Dodgers took Graterol without hesitation says all you need to know. It wasn’t really his medicals. It was the media ripping Bloom and Henry
That told you that the Dodgers valued Graterol as much as they did Maeda and luxury tax savings. Stop with your conspiracy theories. Like the media made the Red Sox stop this deal. That’s honestly the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
Both the Twins and then Bloom once he laid his eyes on the medicals determined Graterol was a reliever. That’s not what he was looking for.
So terrible that the Dodgers took him anyways. Credit to the Red Sox for backing out and getting the Dodgers to cave. If I were the Dodgers I would have said thanks but no thanks. Good luck trying to cut your bloated payroll.
Dodgers have almost $80 mil coming off the books after next season… Do some homework before making uninformed payroll comments.
I was referring to the Red Sox if you read the post correctly and their payroll before the Betts/Price trade.
As much hate as I’ve seen Bloom getting from a lot of my fellow Sox fans, gotta admit he did good here. The guy is trying to clean up a cheating scandal and Dombrowski mess while trying to build for the future. Wouldn’t mind a JBJ trade and a Puig signing… Mets? Pads?
The Mets have no use for JBJ, a defense-only CF who is better suited for a corner spot in a place like Citi Field. They also already have several lefty bats slotted into the OF in Conforto, Nimmo, and McNeil who may or may not get a shot at 3B this year. Can’t see the Mets doing that, but they are the Mets so who really knows?
As far as the Padres, they wanted Betts. I can’t see them making an offer for JBJ who is basically the LH Manuel Margot. That’s a lateral trade at best.
Good point, I’ve seen them mentioned as CF needy teams that’s why I threw their names out there.
“They also already have several lefty bats slotted into the OF in Conforto, Nimmo, and McNeil”
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They’re lefties, but none of them play CF. In an ideal world, you’d trade one of them to the RS in exchange for JBJ + a good prospect. OTOH, if this was an ideal world, the RS would have a good prospect to trade to you.
Here’s a dumb, but creative idea, and, it REALLY depends on boston’s interest in going all in on mookie in 2021.
Benintendi to SD? You’d want to see one of Patino/Morejon, plus Head. Throw in dalbec from BOS and add in quantrill.
Gets the pitching side of things sorted…
They might get Morejon or Quantrill for Benintendi. They won’t get Patino. SD has no interest in Dalbec.
Are you so sure dalbec isn’t a potential fit? You’ve for nobody in the pipeline profiled as a corner IF, let alone with power. You do have myers, but don’t want him.
Hosmer isn’t getting younger, and isn’t a great bat. Having a power bat on the bench that could PH in important situations is a nice piece of depth. A guy like dalbec isn’t a ceterpiece. Y any means. But it isn’t a bad thing to have around either.
Benintendi costs more than just a prospect, and quantrill hasnt shown enough to be worth it on his own. Benny at least has a proven a floor and shown a higher ceiling in mlb already, and, has some cost certainty at a new 5m yr, 2 yr deal, with surplus value, with more control remaining beyond that.
However, boston isn’t contending in 2020 with the betts return as it is. Makes sense to go after a win-win situation where one of the two SP are likely to stabilize the middle to back rotation, and SD gets an upgrade in their OF situation with a nice depth piece they lack.
Even without Patino, we could have a good matchup with SD. I still like Quantrill, and I don’t think either Morejon or Baez are ruled out as starters at some point, even if they are questionable.
OTOH, we still have 3 years of Benni, so the same scenario will likely still be on the table next year.
Sure they got more back… at what cost?
This classy organization is sure to get spiked in the next week or so when baseball comes down on them for being cheats.
What the hell does that have to do with this trade?
I get that your Mr. Morality over here but come on.
Mlb sources have been quoted as saying there wasn’t much in the way of evidence agains the red sox, and any penalties will be minor.
I look forward to seeing if that report is correct
Got a link for that? Have seen comments that sounded like a writers opinion somewhat like this, with the difference being the Sox didn’t make audible signals like the Stros, but runners signaled to the batter after using the reply room.Haven’t seen the “little evidence” info anywhere myself.
Its the use of real time replay that is the main violation, going against league guidance in 2017 warning teams from doing so. Sox offense in question happened season after that.
There’ll be penalties here but I don’t expect they’ll be as severe as what HOU got.
Here ya go, fifth paragraph:
usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/redsox/2020/02/07/bo…
Red Sox are trash. Cry baby Bloom cried for his bottle and got his way. RAG Sox.
You seem upset. Angels fan?
When was the last time your team won anything.
When there is an issue people with integrity stand behind what they’ve been taught. I would n’t expect anything less.
Does this site have any safe spaces?
It’s become a safe space for big city, libbie cry babies the last few years. No wonder they can’t figure out how to run anything that functions correctly.
Yup. I refuse to bring politics into this fine site, but I think I know what you are referring to, and I agree.
Joe, I hear rumors they may replace the ads with banners announcing trigger warnings to help certain fanbases
Cool pool. Love the idea. Good work, TCZ.
I love the fact that the Red Sox are gonna roll out a Jeter in the future.
I know it’s not the Yankees but if another team can have a blood line Yaz, why not?
A bloodline??? Lol. He’s not related. Jeter is his first name. ffs. Lol
I think he was talking about the giants Yastrzemski being the bloodline.
Brusdar is better than downs so….dodgers gave up a utility outfielder and back up catcher for a top 3 player and 4th pitcher with red sox paying half his remaining deal making him market value.
Well according to MLB prospect rankings Downs is 44th and Graterol is 83rd.
Just last year publications had Graterol in the similar top 40 range
LA got more immediate value back but gave up more talent in version 2
They added to the bullpen, rotation and lineup(and defense). I know this and Minn are now two trades but in essence for la it’s just a complex 3 team run around
aaaaaaaand it’s not last year anymore.
BA had Downs 86, Graterol 60, BP had Graterol 32, Downs out side the top 100. Fangraphs in last full update in Aug ’19 had Graterol 65, Downs 89. Frankly most of these differences are fairly meaningless.
It’s also BS publications. Why do people put so much value in them? Outside of a can’t miss top prospect, who cares? Even many of those are wrong. You think teams emphasize publications when completing their own evaluations?
Now check baseball America!
Only disagree about utility outfielder. Verdugo was a starter until his oblique injury.
Then again, relievers have notoriously short effective careers on average compared to position players.
There’s a chance that in a given short window of time graterol makes a bigger impact… until he might flame out or even wind up blowing out his arm/shoulder again. There’s also a chance downs doesn’t make it to mlb or if/when he does, he doesn’t keep adapting to mlb pitching.
Nice thing here is its a trade everyone will look back on in 5 years and evaluate properly.
You know who I think is the difference maker in this trade?
David Price. Moving to the NL will be a boost, and, he was one of the AL leaders at the all star break in 2019 before his cyst (which has since been removed.)
His deal is paid down, he’s competitive, and he’ll be motivated not only for a worldseries but to prove the negative commentary about him all offseason wrong.
If Price lives up to what he’s capable of, LA can’t do worse than tie in this trade.
I’m not sure how one could even argue that they didn’t improve the return.
It’s the internet. What do you expect? We still have people that argue that the Earth isn’t round.
lol well said.
I can’t stress enough how small the difference is between somebody’s #44 and #80 prospect. There’s a smaller number of prospects who are really “elite” and then there is the rest of the top 100. It’s completely subjective and that’s why you see varied rankings from different publications.
With that being said, if you see Graterol as a full time reliever—you probably don’t have him down as a top 100 prospect.
When reached for comment, Alex Cora stated: “We’ve got to get better.”
Yes. Boston clearly got a better deal than their original, and clearly the twins did also. The original deal had dodgers with all the glory, Boston with ok return, and twins getting taken advantage of… it was brutal. Now it isn’t quite as bad
I don’t see how this is an improvement if you’re the Twins. The two main differences in this new agreement are the lower-level prospect swap and the Dodgers basically buying their draft pick.
Boston’s return improved by a bit, but this is still a big loss for them.
Agreed in so far as losing a player like Betts is always a loss. However, he wasn’t going to be around after this season so getting something now is better than getting nothing later. If the Sox were a contender this year then I’d 100% agree with that assessment, but they aren’t and they know it. Getting the club ready for the future is what I think Sox fans should be looking at. Betts gone while sad was going to happen anyway. Price gone makes nobody in Boston sad.
Boston got more talent, gonna get a lot of flak
La improved pretty much around the diamond in one deal as a 106 win base. Price is replacing Rich Hills basically dead contract. Downs is a nice prospect but they gained a draft pick (67 I believe) to turn into another Downs. Given he was basically free for Homer Bailey, they’re improving short term and betting on their player development to make it up long term. LA is a savagely run organization lol
I can already hear sox fans saying the Dodgers overpaid for a rental but that’s not how I see it at all. I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion but I think both teams ended up with a good deal. Boston got multiple highly ranked prospects instead of one and the Dodgers got the player(s) they wanted in return.
Verdugo is a legit starter on virtually every team but there had to be one in the deal right? Because of Seager and Lux, Downs was never going to break into the Dodgers ML Roster. As for Wong, the Dodgers have one of the best farm systems in baseball and catcher happens to be their deepest position so the loss wont hurt them much, if at all. Graterol is well worth the risk for the Dodgers because of his potential as a late inning reliever for the team.
I’m not sure why but Price seems to be viewed by most as just a throw in high $ name attached but I see him as a valuable #3 starter for the Dodgers, especially in the NL and come playoffs. Not to mention at half the amount he signed for in Boston.
Oh yeah, and then there’s a full season of one of the games best added to an already talent rich and deep roster. Seems like a win…for both teams
Actually I think the Dodgers pulled off a major win here. I don’t mind the Red Sox haul but it’s very hard to look at thius from the Dodgers perspective and say any thing bad. First off, I doubt Betts is a rental. Unless Betts has an absolutely terrible year or just ends up hating playing in LA–both of which unlikely–the Dodgers won’t be outbid for him in FA. Second, I think Price will rebound nicely in LA. Price was done with Boston and needed to move on. Add to that he’s gotten over his playoff reputation and well my guess is Vegas odds have gone up in favor of the Dodgers in the WS.
Even if Betts leave, if the Dodgers get a WS trophy out of it then the trade is worth it no matter what happens.
Friedman has yet to give out a $100 million contract as a Dodger. You think he’s going to give out a $375-400 million contract? Almost a slam dunk one year rental. Dodgers will try to go higher AAV shorter deal but it won’t work.
If you’re paying free market value to sign a player in FA, it’s still a rental.
I’m a Sox fan living in LA–I think it’s a major coup for the Dodgers–Price at the market rate is great and Betts as a 1 year rental is good for the Dodgers.
I’m anxious to see how Bloom plays the prospects. I read some scouting reports re the talent of Verdugo and that he’s very talented, he can hit, he’s just a little bit immature. He is just 23 years old.
Perhaps having some veteran solid guys like JDM, Xander, Vazquez and Moreland will keep him focused.
weei.radio.com/blogs
The Author Rob Bradford
“A scouts take on what Red Sox are getting. in Mookie Betts Trade–2/9/20”
Downs is a solid prospect and Wong has value as a “Dodgers style” catcher because of his versatility.
But you’re absolutely right @madmc44 about Verdugo. He is the prize for Bos. He is an advanced hitter, especially considering his age. He can hit gap to gap and has only begun to tap into his potential power. He hit one of the longest HR’s I’ve seen in a while last season at Dodger Stadium. After his oblique injury, the Dodgers offense was noticeably less productive. He has a great arm and is more than a capable defensive outfielder. He also seemed to be really well liked in the clubhouse and us fans loved him
But again for the Dodgers…Landing Mookie for a full season is definitely worth the risk
As a RS fan, please feel free to ignore almost any Boston writer except for Lou Merloni. But IMO, Price is going to be huge for you. He is certainly an injury risk, and certainly expensive.
Price was 7-2 with a 3.24 ERA at the ASB, with a 95/21 K/W. He should’ve been on the AS team. And he has a focus on proving everyone wrong. I can see him stepping in as a team leader, and kind of taking over the Kershaw role of a veteran pitcher.
Dodger blue, we are not thinking that at all. I’m thinking you have a team to be proud of, so enjoy the season! A trade supposed to work out for both, n I hope it does. Price may end up being a great piece to you team. I disliked him but it wasn’t about the pitching, it was him flipping out over Eck, totally uncalled for. But when the season ends I know you’ll be happy with him.
Yup, pay no attention to the awful, awful Boston press. I think most fans I talk to are fine with this trade.
And I think LAD is going to love Price.. I’d have been quite pleased to see him stay and take another shot at the playoffs this year. But the accountants are always right.
I dont blame the Sox for what they did. Every trade is dependent on each teams physicals. They didnt like what they saw so they have every right to demand something else. Just because nowadays it’s all about “breaking news” and who reports things first these deals are reported before they are official.
First question is easy. It’s unquestionable that Boston improved the return. In terms of players, the Betts and Goldschmidt trades are fairly even, but the $75 million in savings definitely pushes the Betts return over the top.
The problem with the Goldschmidt comparison is that both players that AZ got way out-performed their previous production. It’s a small sample size for both, but Weaver had a 4.79 ERA in 233 IPs, and Kelly had a .415 OPS, but in only 117 ABs. I liked the trade for AZ, but it is hard to have predicted a .826 OPS for Kelly and a 2.94 ERA for Weaver.
Give it a few years and you’ll all see how overrated Betts is.
I’m happy we traded Betts, but I will gladly acknowledge that, right now, Betts is the #2 player in BB, right behind someone that might might be a combination of Mays & Mantle.
After the 2020 Season Dodgers are no longer on the hook for at least 72mil in Payroll… who knows what they are going to add after that but their team is going to be good for a very long time.
A big power arm versus a mid infield prospect they got sort of thrown into last year’s salary dump is also a better haul for the Dodgers. The Twins got a cheap, controllable pro pitcher. This trade benefited everyone in relation to their own needs; I guess if no one thinks they are screwing someone else over trades take forever.
It’s hard to say whether they made out better with Wong and Downs because they’re both further from having any significant MLB impact. Graterol probably could have contributed to the Red Sox in 2020. It seems he’s likely going to be more suited for a relief role this season, but maybe he has a future as a starter. Honestly, Alex Verdugo was the biggest piece acquired in either scenario so I’m not sure there’s much difference either way.
That’s why I always thought the trade would eventually be finalized. The bones was Verdugo for Betts. Everyone else were replaceable players. Good ones, but replaceable.
The Red Sox definitely netted a better return the second time around. However, it’s way too early to say who brought in a better haul between Betts and Goldschmidt.
We’ve had a whole season to see how well Kelly and Weaver have played so far in Arizona. We have to hope Verdugo is healthy for Boston this season and see how long it takes Downs to reach Boston as he likely becomes the heir apparent to Pedroia at 2B.
Twins fan here. All I have to say is that no medical records were hidden and no new medical issues came up. No special secret news about Graterols health came to light and the twins were upfront and honest about all of his medical related facts. The twins front office has been saying all winter that due to Brudsars violent delivery and past injury history they project him more as a dominate late reliever more than a starter at this point and were planning to use him that way for at least this season but nothing was set in stone for the future. The kid is 21 years old, plenty of pitchers have refined their mechanics and plenty have had Tommy john surgery and recovered just fine and were able to compete at a very high level for multiple years. At the same time many have not come back the same, been able to change their mechanics, or been able to avoid repeat injuries to their elbows or shoulders. There was reason to be concerned but to act like some special news suddenly came to light that made them change their mind in ridiculous. Boston agreed to trade, got tons of heat from angry fans because they didn t get enough so they found a way to bail on the trade its that simple. Tough to say which deal will be better. To not want a 21 year old who throws a nasty 98-103(minors)mph with a wipe out slider and who continues to work on a curve and changeup is crazy, even if they have had 1 surgery. Even if he ends up being a high leverage late innings reliver or closer he clearly has the stuff to be one of the leagues most dominate ones and there is a ton of value there as well. With creativity he could be a multiple late innings shut em down type closer just get him adequate rest when he throws a lot of pitches. How valuable is a reliever who can shut a high powered offense out for 3 innings to in the playoffs. Especially when today’s starters often are done after 5-6 innings. I personally kind of wish we were keeping him, we need an ace pitcher anyways not a career 3.85 ERA Kent’s Meada. Good win now trade for twins but if looking good at trade deadline gonna need to part with more top prospects to get that ace or same old story.
Doesn’t matter who you are a fan of, or how devoted you are.
Unless you were in the room either with the redsox doctors, OR, with MIN leadership when BOS demands/explanation came in you really can’t support any of those statements/claims about what was or wasn’t seen/done here.
End of the day twins still got a trade with maeda and graterol switching places. Good for both sides.
You got a solid #3-4 starter to go with Berrios, Pineda, Odorizzi and Homer without giving up Lewis, Kirilloff or Balazovic. That’s all that matters.
Dodgers won the trade in a landslide. That said The Red Sox still got a stud outfielder and a good prospect in downs out of it so I’d give them a B on their return.
Dodgers still wont win a world series but the Dodger Betts jerseys will sell
Luke Weaver was GREAT before his injury last year. Out of all the return players traded in the betts / goldy trades I think he is the most valuable and best player. Cost savings give the edge to red sox but players go to diamondbacks!
We don’t know that last part yet. The Snakes got off to a good start on their return, but Verdugo has a higher ceiling. Downs is also well-rated and may be a good ml’er for many years.
I actually think the Dodgers come out better here in the end-
They essentially swap Downs and Wong for Graterol-
Downs is blocked by Lux and Muncy long term with Seager Turner Taylor still in the fold for the next 2 years as well- Wong is like our 4th/ 5th best C prospect so his loss means nada
Meanwhile our biggest weakness is the pen- I hope they concentrate Graterol on being a 3-6 out guy only to prolong him-
Surprised at the poll results…. Downs doesnt look to have huge upside and Wong is projected to be a b/u Catcher (very min value) –
Remember, you can’t just grade a trade in the vacuum, you need to look subjectively at each side through the eyes of the party on that end of the trade.
Jeter Downs was somewhat expendable to LAD, no question. But he would be more valuable to BOS.
To Boston, pre-trade there’s nobody highly thought of in their system that projects to be competent for 2B. Pedroia is near his end whether he hangs it up, or even in the unlikely event of a playing return his contract is nearly over.
A league average 2B, but also making league minimum as a rookie, is attractive for a team with bogey locked in, big contracts for sale/eovaldi, uncertainty with Erod and #4/#5 slots, and eventual money to devers and/or benintendi.
To be fair though I wasnt trying to be subjective in my first 4 mini paragraphs, I was looking at it from the Dodgers POV only-
Far as the last paragraph, Im just surprised by how much the poll sways to that side- Its a safer route ill give you that, but I think Graterol still has way more upside even if its at a 3-6 out clip outta the pen than Downs
I think they should have tryed to pick our pockets for some cheap pitching but thats just me- Im very pleased all it took was Downs
The Red Sox have talented position players everywhere, as well as probably the best DH in the game. What they REALLY needed is PITCHING! Am I the only one seeing this?!
SP:
1.) a shaky Chris Sale
2.) Eduardo Rodriguez
3.) an injury riddled Nathan Eovaldi
4.) Martin Perez
5.) ???
Bullpen: Brandon Workman and a bunch more question marks
Their lineup is still VERY solid. Their pitching staff however, leaves much to be desired… Not acquiring a single arm in a deal for a talent like Mookie Betts, while also giving up a still solid David Price, is beyond me… So no, their return of a solid Verdugo and two positional prospects that spent most of last year in A ball, is not better. The Dodgers getting Graterol is another HUGE win for them, and another loss for the Red Sox.
I’m with you on pretty much all you points. And I liked Graterol too, but there had to be something they saw because 103mph doesn’t grow on trees.
And we have to get it through our minds that resetting the CBT was a higher priority than competing in 2020. Lots has to go right for them to compete for a wildcard. I don’t think they were fixing the bullpen in the current CBT situation.
Reality is Graterol was not helping that rotation.
Even if you choose to ignore whatever it was the team saw in its medical review, graterol threw ONLY 70 IP last year.
He also only threw sparingly as a reliever above AA in his career having been rushed to the mlb level.
Reality is, even if he was 100% healthy (in doubt) he needs a year to stretch out (best done in AAA), and then, another year to build up on top of that where you may need to shut him down early or limit outing duration.
Fact is, of the teams who could absorb the salary there weren’t mlb ready sp prospects on the table. Padres don’t count because they wouldn’t absorb more than 10m in net salary.
red sox might have a jeter at shortstop one day lets hope he is half as good as the other jeter that played shortstop
Bogaerts has him blocked for 6+ years. Downs has a chance to take over as the Sox regular second baseman in two years.
It just dawned on me this morning, our last 2B prospect transitioned to RF fairly successfully. If Chavis can hold onto 2B, which is a shaky proposition, I am wondering if Downs can transition to RF?
If Downs can do so, and if Casas can take over 1st, we will have an entire field team field team intact for several years.
Red Sox dumped salary, Dodgers got a year of Mookie to push for WS and half price Price. Boston’s return is Verdigo, prospects are just that until they produce. Good deal for all
Ok so I’m jumping ahead after reading “that the Boston Red Sox would be financially motivated to move one of the best players in the sport is beyond comprehension” The man has stated on multiple occasions that he plans to test his value in FA. The Sox offered him $300 mill for 10 and he refused. They’ll have their fair chance in FA like everyone else, seems without the sour taste Lester had by a lowball offer. This is a smart move getting 3 back instead of just a draft pick. They’d be in the same situation in less than a year but with nothing else, still standing to lose him.
really can’t believe Betts is outta Boston
I feel same way about Verdugo.
I honestly think he will be something within next 1-2 years if he stays injury free. I loved watching him.
I want us to win the WS as much as next Dodger fan but for me this one is hard.
So who is going to pay 12/$420M for Mookie? The Dodgers? None of the other big market teams seem like fits at that price.
Probably more like 10/$350. Who is in then? Boston is probably just as likely to sign him back. And if that happen plus they got the prospects, it would be a huge win.
This whole thing was a giant mess that was handled so poorly by boston. Amatuer hour. Here’s why: Now bloom and co. have opened themselves up to second guessing. They will have to suffer through whatever type of player Graterol turns out to be and this situation has a high liklihood of being incredibly unkind to them. Downs will not be doing much for the next several years, he was a .260 A ball player last season. Verdugo has already had chances to lockdown an outfield job in LA and couldn’t do it. Probably destined to be a .250 hitter 20hr guy dime a dozen. If Graterol is mowing down hitters as early as next season, boston media will be calling for Bloom’s head!
In the long run I believe SS Jeter Downs will be the player Boston will get the best out of. I was disappointed in Cincinnati trading him last winter.
He’ll be their future 2B.
One of the worst trades I’ve ever seen. For the Puig, Kemp & Wood salary, LAD are the ones that should’ve been sending you prospects.
Oddly enough, Gray & Downs are close in value to the package that eventually netted Betts. So basically, instead of having one year of Bauer, you could’ve had one year of Betts, and kept Trammell.
I wonder why Boston didn’t want Maeda and Strippling when they need pitching. Wouldn’t Verdugo, Maeda and Strippling be a better deal if they wanted to stay in contention for a wild card?
This deal had nothing to do with Betts. The premise of this deal was to get rid of Price and get some farm pieces. The only way to get that was to include Betts. I personally believe Betts is overrated because he’s too small to hold up to a contract he is demanding. So I’m happy he is gone.
If Verdugo stays healthy, he has the potential to be very close to as good as Betts, and IF (and only if) he is good, the Boston fans and media will adore him.
I like it in concept, but I’m just guessing the RS didn’t like both Maeda’s road record and his inter-league performance.
This trade mess was all a publicity stunt in order to lessen the Boston outcry for letting Betts go. Wag the dog tactic.
Yeah, because we know it impossible that a guy that had Tommy John surgery, and a shoulder impingement, couldn’t possibly have other damage to his shoulder.
Reply to steve dolan:
Huh? Trading Betts was a great move. Betts won’t negotiate until after he’s a FA. So there no advantage of possibly signing him now. Keeping his 27mil on the books would’ve guaranteed the Red Sox go over the Salary Cap.
By resetting cap, Red Sox can shop more freely next year. Get 3 young studs. Not lose draft pick slots and can sign a major player. Maybe even Betts (Sox chances go from 0% to 1% of resigning him). But its still a better scenario, than letting him walk and all the issues that come with that.
Let’s get the physical’s out of the way and we are on to Spring Training.
Interesting comment by ‘Commonsenseslapslapsyou’–just above–“LA is a savagely run organization.” I found that comment interesting.
They are not the same Dodgers from when they were in Brooklyn. If they don’t win the WS with the addition of Betts & Price and others to replace Joc; I’m sure it will disappoint the fans. I’m sure there will be more moves by Friedman as the season approaches; especially with the number of OF on the roster.
The one thing you can say about the Rays former and current management–change is constant; that includes Bloom & Friedman.
Carson Kelly is about to become the best catcher in all of baseball, so yeah, that return was better.
yes, they improved it, but knowing that the Dodger were willing to give away Stripling, how did they not get him as part of the new deal?He’s still sitting there for the taking.
Red Sox are rebuilding this year and probably next:
Ross Stripling – Age 30, FA in 2022
Alex Verdugo – Age 24, FA in 2025
Jeter Downs – Age 21, Pre-Arb
Connor Wong – Age 23, Pre-Arb
Red Sox are looking to get younger not older.
I don’t think they are rebuilding. I think they are retooling and resetting the CBA tax. By retooling I mean the RS have a lot of talent even without Betts and Price. Betts is traded because he wants to be a FA and get paid as much $ as he can possibly make most likely closer to his home which is not Boston. Sox would have lost him and received a draft pick. Price is gone because he’s way over paid based on his current value and he was the best way to get under the $208M CBA tax #. So when you have Sale, Rodriquez (19 wins), Evolaldi, Perez, 5th starter open at the moment. Along with Benintendi, JBJ, Verdugo, Devers, Bogarts, Chavis, Moreland and Vasquez, how can you say the RS are rebuilding?
They needed more prospects etc. but if this is rebuilding there are a lot of teams that would love to be in this situation.
In addition stay tuned on the sign stealing decision by MLB on the RS. Seems like Alex Cora is not the ring leader he was made out to be in the Houston report. The Astros were cheating the year before AC became the bench coach and the RS players (JD Martinez & others) are saying the RS were not cheating. If that’s all true, how can MLB come down on the RS and Cora? He was not the Mgr or GM in Houston. Hinch or Lunhow could have ended that garbage in Houston in a nano second but they didn’t. This decision should be interesting.
Sale-4.40 ERA
Eovaldi-5.99 ERA
Perez-5.12 ERA
Looks like a pretty bad rotation. As far as I can see Boston only has 1 real quality starter in Rodriguez, and a 3.81 ERA isn’t exactly a world-beater. Sale has lost what, 3mph off his fastball in the last couple of years? He may be a quality starter if he recovers but he is no longer one of the best. There is really nothing else. No #5 starter, no good minor league pitchers to call up anywhere in the system. Boston looks like it will one of the bottom 5 rotations in mlb this year, with no relief in sight. They have a good but far from great offense. JDM is a star. Devers and Bogaerts are very good. Verdugo COULD BE good. Nobody else is big time and the Sox have no replacements anywhere.
Just having you list JBJ as an asset shows the kind of desperate straights the Sox are in GMB 883.
Dodger fan here and followed dugie for the last 3 years. I know Verdugo was hurt but this guy has real potential to lead the league in hitting . He hits both righties and lefties well and does not strike out a lot. He has a plus arm and is a tremendous fielder. Downs and wong are showing pretty good marks as well in the minors. If Mookie doesn’t resign in LA this is a huge win for Boston considering they got flexibility under the cap while making their farm much more relevant.. This is huge for Boston.
Dodgers signing or not resigning Betts has nothing to do with the Red Sox side of the trade.