It has been a tumultuous few weeks for the Astros, whose well-documented sign-stealing scandal has owned headlines over the past month. As a result, the club had to let go of its eminently successful GM-manager tandem of Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch after Major League Baseball suspended them for a year apiece.
Since Luhnow and Hinch lost their jobs, Astros players have been accused of wearing buzzers under their jerseys last season in order to identify which pitches were coming. The league didn’t find any evidence that occurred, but Yankees manager Aaron Boone – whose team lost to the Astros in the 2019 ALCS – didn’t dismiss it Wednesday. Boone instead noted that it’s “certainly one of those great unknowns,” per Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated. Hinch also addressed the matter, stating that he has “never seen any such device used in baseball. I am not aware of any such device existing or being utilized with the Astros, the players, or any other team.”
Regardless of whether Hinch is telling the truth, it’s up in the air whether he or Luhnow will work in MLB again. Houston has already replaced the two with Dusty Baker and James Click, respectively. Baker, owner Jim Crane and Astros players will address reporters at 9:30 a.m. ET on Thursday, the first day of media availability at spring training, Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle reports.
It’s unclear exactly what the Astros will say, but odds are they’ll take a regretful tone for their wrongdoing. Crane, after all, revealed a few weeks ago that the Astros would “apologize for what happened, ask forgiveness and move forward,” as Jeff Passan of ESPN relays.
Former Astros Marwin Gonzalez, Dallas Keuchel, Charlie Morton, Joe Musgrove and Max Stassi – all members of the franchise’s 2017 World Series-winning club – have already apologized for the team’s past misdeeds. Nevertheless, there are multiple major leaguers who have voiced disgust toward the Astros this week.
Angels left-hander Andrew Heaney – now teammates with Stassi – ripped into his division rivals, saying (via Maria Torres of the Los Angeles Times): “They sure as [heck] need to do more than what they already did. That was terrible. I understand they are going to go get their (stuff) in order and they are going to have their thing to say, and they are going to hide behind the commissioner’s report and whatever. But I don’t think that’s good enough.”
Meanwhile, Phillies reliever David Robertson opined (per Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia), “It’s a disgrace what they’ve done and they’re going to have to live with it and everyone knows.”
Robertson was a member of the Yankees in 2017, when the Astros defeated them in a seven-game ALCS to advance to the World Series. The typically reliable righty had a disastrous Game 6 during that series, yielding four earned runs on four hits while failing to record an out in a 7-1 loss. Robertson suggested to Salisbury that there was foul play involved in that dominant Houston performance.
“I got roughed up in Game 6,” he said. “And I felt like in that game I threw as well as I’ve ever thrown in my entire life. I had some pitches that got hit that I was a little shocked by and some pitches that didn’t get swung at that I was a little shocked by. At the time, I wasn’t thinking about what we know now. But it all comes together now and, you know, I’m upset about it, that’s for sure.”
Athletics righty Mike Fiers, an Astro from 2015-17, was instrumental in bringing Houston’s methods to light back in November. But Fiers isn’t the only member of the Athletics who knew something was wrong. GM David Forst and manager Bob Melvin, whose club finished second to the Astros in the AL West in each of the prior two seasons, informed Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle that the A’s complained to the league about their sign-stealing rivals. However, MLB did not take action against the Astros at that point. Had Fiers not eventually gone public with his complaints, it’s possible nothing would have been done.
Manfred is a joke. He needs to removed from his post asap. Worst commissioner of all time. and its not even close
Agreed. From this investigation, to some of the new 2020 rules, to the cutting back of minor league teams, it seems like he botches every big issue he faces. He doesn’t have the heart of a true baseball fan which is paramount to what makes a good commissioner truly good.
The heart of a true baseball fan would inevitably end up killing the sport.
Just like his criminal pal Bud Selig who is okay with Ponzi schemes and steroid use. It still pisses me off teams like Yanks,Dbacks,Red Sox won championships because they had to cheat. The fact any player from them teams are in the HOF shows baseball lost it’s legitimacy and it’s just like NBA. It’s sports entertainment like WWE. Astros just reinforced that feeling. If all the major leaguers don’t strike till Astros players get banned for life they are admitting baseball is just like NBA/WWE
Steroids… not good for the on field product in terms of level playing field, competitiveness and fairness. However, the steroid era brought many baseball headlines. Bad publicity is still publicity. We are talking $$$. Baseball is a business, and $$$ is the #1 priority. It’s sad but it’s the reality
It was a level playing field. All the teams were doing it. Too many people think it was only the big names. It went all the way down into the minor leagues. Guys felt like they had to do it to make it. For proof in MLB, look at the names that actually got busted. Lots of no names and relief pitchers, etc.
It was not a level playing field, there were players with integrity that would never touch steroids or any illegal substance. To say it was a level playing field is just silly.
Flapjax not all teams were doing it. Wake up.
Please educate us all on all these teams
Steroids seem to be a very different beast to me. A lot of years I don’t think there was a team in baseball that didn’t have multiple users. The extent of this cheating was specific to the Astros.
I disagree it seems at least the Red Sox May have also been cheating. Time will tell, hopefully.
The yankees and red sox were fined for the same thing in 2017. Astros took it farther because they were smarter than everyone else and had a gm with no moral compass. MLB did nothing until the media blew it up. Manfred warned teams of harsher penalties and the Astros didn’t listen
Time? Let me check my Apple watch.
There Brewers have been doing it as well it appears, look at Yelich’s home/away splits
At least 8 teams involved. More will come out with time.
Using splits as your logic then the Cubs have been doing it as well. Just look the team’s home/away splits.
See how idiotic you sound?
If you think the Yanks, Red Sox and Dbacks were the only teams with steroid users, just delete your account buddy.
Dude … You are reckless with your statements. I wish I could block you.
Dude … You are reckless with your statements. I wish I could block you.
Which means you do not watch the NBA at all.
When people blame Selig for PEDs in baseball, I often wonder what planet they are on. They obviously didn’t watch the Congressional hearings. They obviously were not aware of Marvin Miller’s position.
Let me sum up, it took an act of Congress to get Fehr to agree to drug testing. And it was so lame the cheaters didn’t get punished, and the testing only took place during the season. If Congress could only get that kind of testing, what chance did Selig have?
Did you want Selig to make public statements that the sport was not legitimate? Did you want the owners to strike against the CBA?
Selig implemented drug testing in the minor league before Bonds broke the single season Home Run record. It couldn’t be done in the Major Leagues until Congress forced the players union’s hand.
Selig had the opportunity to act sooner but waited until he was forced by congress to intervene. To paint Selig as so powerless on the issue is silly.. There are alternative measures to take if players and owners don’t agree to drug testing but Selig didn’t want to lose money/rock the boat, whatever the case may have been, so continued on as if everything was fine. It went on too long, that’s why he rarely gets a pass on the issue. Terrible leader and commissioner.
Yes, and now The Executive,Legislative & Judicial Branches all need mandatory,unannounced, random testing as well !!!
Fire Manfred and replace him with Mark Shapiro. Then, the Jays can replace Shapiro and fire Atkins. Win-win.
Couldn’t agree more. He’s been an awful commissioner.
The Commissioner has never worked for the fans, so your opinion is moot.
Millennials need to grow up. Thanks Internet.
Yes…millennials are the only ones upset about rule changes and rampant cheating.
Must have not had your Ensure this morning.
Seriously, way to just throw a random group that has nothing to do with the conversation under the bus!
Boomers may be grown, but it’d be nice if when they find fault with something they’d show some class and maturity now and then.
It’s apparently more fun to be a hypocrite, but why not try to lead by example?
Yep, he’s terrible
Agree. It happened on his watch too’
What the league needs is Judge Landis as Commissioner. Remember the Black Sox scandal? He knew how to handle cheaters. This commish is weak. If Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are ban for life well……or reinstates them. Dont just pick and choose either. Landis said something to the effect you dont cheat just a little bit.
Why not just express your desire for a commissioner with more integrity, instead of a pig like Landis?
I agree. Manfred must go
I wanna see more players attacking the Astros. Not gonna do much, but hell why not, good entertainment.
It’s coming, don’t worry. Spring training brings them all to one place with the entire baseball media and they will be ready to express themselves.
Youre going to be very sad when the Astros win their division and possibly return to the world series. If the league wants to play beanball it will galvanize the team. They already have the best lineup in baseball. Motivate them by making them villains in a sport in which the Yankees, red sox, and dodgers are the only teams the league wants to win and you will have another unwanted astros juggernaut
We will see about that. It’s tough being the villain.
I am looking forward to Altuve getting hit in the face with a 100 mph fastball. If the league won’t punish them then the other players will.
I don’t think you can say with any confidence they have the best lineup when they’ve been cheating for 3 years to pad their stats and the W-L column. We just haven’t seen what they can do without knowing what pitch is coming.
He without sin cast the first stone.
No one is planning on stoning them to death or condemning them to the firey depths of hell. They need to be firmly rebuked from all corners of the baseball community and held individually and collectively accountable in a meaningful way. None of that is going to happen without a swell of public opinion.
Are you sure they won’t figuratively be stoned to death? Bregman is already seen as an arrogant SOB. He will be thrown at for sure. And Altuve better choose his words wisely or he will get the same result.
Ejemp, totally agree with you. The Astros cheated in a grand scale but this is likely just the tip of the iceberg.
Exactly. People upset with the lack of punishment need to realize it was likely weak so that the Astros and Red Sox wouldn’t call out all the other teams doing the same thing.
There is a reason former players are saying the Astros aren’t the only team, or the first team to do this, and all the current players are trying to act shocked and pissed off.
The MLB wants this to end and they want it to end with the Astros and Red Sox. It would do major damage to the league if it got out that 25-50% of the teams were using technology to steal signs. Especially if it was a majority of the contending teams.
Eye for an eye.
A quote from the Justin Verlander who was so high and mighty in 2016 after Dee Gordon’s PED suspension…
“If there is proven intent to cheat…and trying to cheat the system, trying to go around it — I think it should be a ban from baseball,”
mlive.com/tigers/2016/04/justin_verlander_blasts_p…
Justin Verlander said in 2016 after Dee Gordon’s suspension:
“If there is proven intent to cheat…and trying to cheat the system, trying to go around it — I think it should be a ban from baseball,”
Seems that Justin’s moral compass broke on his way to Houston.
Interesting. Did Verlander really say that? Is there a link? I am not saying you are wrong but I would like to read that article or whatever if there was one.
That quote is powerful like you suggest. To back off on that now would be hypocritical of JV like you suggest
Word.. He said exactly that. nesn.com/2016/04/justin-verlander-done-with-ped-ex…
Interview with FoxSports’ Ken Rosenthal April 29, 2016
mlive.com/tigers/2016/04/justin_verlander_blasts_p…
The organization that took losing on purpose , and cheating, to a new level.
What a complete garbage team.
LMAO!
Everyone put your hands together for Sexual Choclate.
Everyone put your hands together for Sexual Chocolate
Are you a yankees fan? A team that literally has the most money to spend in the sport and has bought free agent after free agent to include steroid users. The deck is stacked in the yankees favor. Since i was a little kid the yankees have used half of mlb as their personal farm system. This is literally the definition of legal cheating.
Deflecting the subject are we? The Yankees did nothing wrong spending money on free agents, it’s not cheating if it’s in the rules and signing a free agent is not cheating. I’m far from a Yankees fan but your comment was just so absurd. Knowing what pitch is coming is no way equal to free agent signings. You admit it legal. The scum your defending had to cheat to beat the Yankees and Dodgers as well as every other team in the league.
Not a bankers fan. The assbros are a complete gutter scum franchise. The team should be contracted and all of their miserable shitass players should be banned forever.
Please excuse me while I go put some more water in Buck Nasty’s Momma’s dish.
I like how only the former players have apologised. Where’s Altuve? Correa? Bregman?
They are not sorry, and not having been punished in any way, have no reason in their minds to be sorry. They still have 100% of what they wanted, their awards and rings and trophy and financial rewards. They are not sorry at all.
Damn, were you informed personally that they’re not sorry or remorseful?! I’m sure they’ll all address it here soon enough, in the meantime, you can move on with your life it’ll be okay lol
@Randy_Watson Maybe you missed Bregman’s recent interview where he refused to acknowledge there was any problem. Or Altuve breaking his silence to deny buzzer allegations while not even acknowledging the cheating scandal at all or apologizing– as well as lying that his wife won’t let him take off his shirt in public despite him having a shirtless photo on his Instagram for the world to see. Not remorseful. Actions indicate remorse. I don’t need to sit down for lunch with them.
Maybe he had been wearing lucky nip rings for the big game and was embarrassed and still is.
@spinach Bingo! lol that had to be it, makes so much sense now ha!
Tassels.
Buzzing nipple clamps…i think we have stumbled onto the next cheating scandal!
It literally said they’re going to talk as a group today. I’m assuming they’ll be part of that group.
I’m sure everyone will take great comfort from their forced statement weeks later by their employer.
I’m sure you would have moved on with your life by now, if they had come out immediately and said “I’m sorry!”
What is an apology going to change? What? I’m sorry for doing what other contending teams are doing? I’m sorry for doing what teams have been doing for decades now?
And, this is a crazy thought…..what if certain players didn’t actually cheat? Are they supposed to apologize for actions of others? You wouldn’t buy that, so what are they supposed to say that will make a difference and gain your approval?
Nothing would. So why bother?
Their organization will give a scripted apology for the players, two who will make quarter billion in contracts signed since 2017 and have been the biggest deniers… It’s a shame that the biggest cheaters have also been the biggest d-bags on the camera and microphone as well. And a year ago everyone was mocking Trevor Bauer…
“What is an apology going to change? What? I’m sorry for doing what other contending teams are doing? I’m sorry for doing what teams have been doing for decades now?”
Where is your proof teams have been doing this for decades. Because the real time stuff is within probably the last few years of availability without it being blatantly obvious (calling someone in the dugout, having a tv in the dugout). If the pitcher is tipping his pitches and no one tells him thats their fault.
If you are talking about 2nd base stealing signs that isnt really considered illegal even by today’s standards which is why catchers will do multiple signs so they cant be stolen and is not using technology to do it.
“And, this is a crazy thought…..what if certain players didn’t actually cheat? Are they supposed to apologize for actions of others? You wouldn’t buy that, so what are they supposed to say that will make a difference and gain your approval?”
What if you knew someone committed a crime and didnt tell anyone about it. Are you not held liable? Are they as guilty as the ones that did the cheating? No but they are still guilty and should be held accountable for that and did benefit from it. I would be happy with them just saying i knew of the cheating and even though i did not participate i am sorry i did not stop it or come forward.
Where is the proof other teams have been doing this for decades? Haha. Do you only read articles about the Astros? Jack McDowell said the White Sox were doing this in the 80’s. He said the next days starting pitcher would sit in the coaches office and signal the pitch that was coming, by using a light on the scoreboard.
There was a Coach last week that admitted to using technology to steal signs from the catcher, base coaches, and coaches in the dugout.
Other players have stated that they saw stuff like this going on when they played. It’s all out there. But no one wants to talk about that. Let’s bury our head in the sand and act like the Astros were the only team.
They’re polishing their WS rings as they write out apologies of course,
I’m sure their smug asses will wear their rings proudly while “apologizing”. Smh
I would. No lie. Then I would welcome any pitcher that wants to throw at me, to go ahead and do it. It will only help the offense score more. I would even encourage fans to bring their trash cans to games and beat on them as loud as they could. Then I would say I know this is where I’m supposed to apologize, but F all of y’all. I didn’t do anything that others have done, and didn’t do. You don’t like it? Oh well. Enjoy the loses this year.
Love the victim card the few idiots on here use to deflect the issue
Not a victim at all. I just don’t give a flip. I literally could not care less that the Astros did this. Doesn’t change my opinion about the Astros, the World Series, or the individual players.
Bruh. Why you so angry?
I am sure they have been advised to keep their mouth shut for the time being. Speaking out, no matter what they say, is a no-win situation.
Where’s the clown show MLBTR Astros fans to tell Aaron Boone, Marwin Gonzalez, Dallas Keuchel, Charlie Morton, Joe Musgrove, Max Stassi, Andrew Heaney, David Robertson, David Forst, and Bob Melvin to stop beating a dead horse?
Looking for a clown show fight?
(If this were a hockey site, you’d get 2 for instigating!)
Dude stop beating a dead horse. I posted that comment at least 4 minutes ago now.
I didn’t realize you were. My apologies for not noticing a difference
The people beating the horse are fans and media looking for red meat. The people you mentioned were approached by media, they didn’t just volunteer a statement without being approached.
Yet here is another breaking news article on the topic of the so-called dead horse. Still coming daily by the way
That’s because they know it’ll get clicks. Outrage sells. Have you been living under a rock?
Ummmm No it’s because there’s real new breaking facts just about every day right now
$100 mil roster penalty every year for 5 years!
Over or under 5 brawls this year from Astros players getting drilled? Fingers crossed for the over.
they won’t get drilled. the banging of the trashcan this year will mean duck!
yeah, dont we all wish for people to get physically injuried for something so trivial. you people need hobies.
a ball in the butt doesn’t hurt..its a messege
And when that 95 mph pitch slips and goes to the ribs or god forbid the head…
Really??? Sabremetric ANY 95 MPH pitch can slip and hit someone in the ribs or head, not just one thrown at a guys butt
Which one do you think is more likely to slip and hit a player somewhere it may hurt – one aimed toward the strike zone or one already aimed @ the player? What a dumb comment.
Gambling in Casablanca. I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
Everybody does it. Astros just came up with a better system.
yeah, but totally illegal!
I would love to see your comment if one of the players pulled out a gun on the field and shot another player. You’d be like “Fighting on a baseball field. I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
Everybody does it. Player A just had a better game plan.”
Wow! Imagine thinking that was a good analogy.
The Athletic has published many interesting articles pertaining to this issue. But one recent article stated Dave Hudgens, the hitting coach in 2017, knew why the Astros were banging trash cans… okay Hinch gets banned, Cora and Beltran lose jobs. Hudgens is the damn hitting coach!!! We are discussing an issue that pretty much revolves around Astros hitters. I think Hudgens should get the same punishment as Hinch/Luhnow.
Even though Hinch and Luhnow deserved punishment (and worse punishments than they got at that), there is no question that they were scapegoated. It is unacceptable that they have to carry the entire mantle of punishment for the many men directly involved.
I agree 100%. We can argue all we want about the terms of punishment, but I think most would agree that others should be punished as well. It’s hard to prove who knew and who didn’t, but it’s pretty obvious. And the MLB has shown that they do not operate in a manner of “innocent until proven guilty.” So given what we know, I think MLB should be punishing more individuals, and find a way to punish players. Idk how, no clue, but I’m sure there’s a way, even a slap on the wrist. The entire coaching staff should get some kind of punishment, some more than others… this whole thing is a mess.
Naw, you punish the top. It’s why the stars who’s voices would have had to been listened to should be suspended too.
Unacceptable for them to have to carry the entire mantle? Are you kidding me?? It starts at the top. When Hinch found out about it, he should of ended it that second.What was he thinking.? And then the GM lets it go on. What happened to protecting the integrity of the game.??? SMH
You said it yourself. It starts at the top. It doesn’t end there. They should have received the worst punishments, but the fact that they are at the top does not excuse the bad conduct of other actors in the organization. As far as I know they did not force anyone’s hand.
how are they the scapegoats? they oversaw the whole thing and had the power to stop it id they wanted to. they’re easily the most culpable, especially Luhnow
That depends on how you view leadership. Some people think that if someone is “in charge” like I dunno, the GM and Manager, that THEY were responsible for the actions of their men. Not to say that the players could have and should have been disciplined as well. I also find it VERY suspicious that Manfred implied the Players Union was the problem with discipline for the players. Seems that with a CBA negotiation coming up that tying the union to this black eye would make them look bad to the public.
The Players Union also represents ALL THE OTHER TEAM’S players. That means they should have been on board with some form of punishment.
I dunno. All sucks all around.
Hudgens didn’t create the system and no one that was interviewed by the commissioners office implicated him as a participant.
Hinch was fired because he did technically have the ability to stop it and the responsibility to stop it, as difficult as that might have been for him on a personal level.
Cora and Beltran were the people most responsible for the use of the system (other than players actively participating).
It is the manager and general manager’s responsibility to dictate conduct and rules in a clubhouse and Hinch at least should have informed the GM that he felt powerless to stop it.
You can’t punish people without true authority for not being authoritative, so if Major League Baseball wants players, coaches, clubhouse and medical staff to come forward with information about activity in a clubhouse, they need to state the repercussions for not doing so and also protect those people from the fallout.
Everyone involved had the authority to determine whether they would personally participate in this illicit scheme. In my career if I follow my boss’s orders to do something that is illegal or against company policy I will be fired and possibly litigated against.
the world is harsh and it isnt black and right. of you do the right thing and the news never gets out you lose your job and no one understands why you left to hire you again. this isnt a moral dilemma, its cheating in a child’s game. no one was going to stake their careers over this, and im sure most of the self-righteous hypocrites here would do the same in that situation.
Hudgens didn’t participate in the scheme, the manager is his authority who didn’t stop it or report it to the GM.
I don’t know what line of work you’re in, but Hudgens reporting misconduct to GM (who knew about the system), the owner, media, or commissioners office, could have led to dismissal, would have led to mistrust from the very people he was hired to help, the city of Houston, and very well could’ve gotten him blackballed in baseball. Who wants a hitting coach that’s also enforcing his morality on a team to the detriment of the entire organization and fan base? Not to mention national media attention and fallout.
@ Darkside you can belittle it and call it a child’s game all you like but the harsh reality is that this cheating scandal caused a loss of financial compensation for multiple individuals on a level that could likely pay yours and my salary for decades.
So child’s game, sure if that’s how you want to view it. But definitely not child’s play when you are talking about millions of dollars.
The difference there is that Hudgens co-operated with the investigation an hence was given immunity unlike the others who denied everything to the end
TRASHstros.
Think they’ll sell Trash Can Punch at the concessions at Minute Maid Park?
The best part of all of this is we are going to see a 20ish% drop in OPS+ for every major Astro and it’s going to make not punishing the players look ludicrous.
Not punishing the Astros players already looks ludicrous.
Taking play away from players (the stage away from the actors?), regardless of other restrictions, is the only penalty they would feel.
As to your performance drop, it stands to reason that some will occur, and a player or two will likely under-perform your “projections”, but there are some very good baseball players on this team. They will take on the challenge to show how good they really are …and exceed even their expectations.
The Astro will have forgotten how to hit without knowing whar coming. No more 350 hitting with 2 strikes. I read a quote that Astro’s didn’t like to try to hit without knowing was coming.
The live sign stealing happened in 2017, and that team only got better in 2018 and 2019. What makes you think stopping the use of a trash can live feed system in 2017 will help the statement you made in 2020?
2018 and 2019 was the no buzzer signaling device. What was it, when will it come out. Maybe when clubhouse employees move on.
So how do you explain their All-Star game success? Are they stealing signs at the All-Star games now too?
A preliminary analysis of 58 home games from 2017 showed that (from what was available) that the cheating yielded very, very little in the way of results. It screwed them almost as much as it helped.
We’ll see right.
Everyone put your hands together for Sexual Chocolate
Remember when Verlander was so outspoken about trading for Osuna? Why is he so quiet now? Cheating piece of garbage
Well I guess we know how you prioritize a couple of your moral conundrums.
Verlander is a pitcher. How on earth is he a cheater? Because he was on a team that traded for him in August? So you want him to arrive in Houston and rat out his entire team and then deal with the consequences of working with them through the remainder of his contract? Thats not how people operate
Astros players would probably be more comfortable in the batter’s box if they were wearing vibranium to protect against the number of balls that will have “gotten away” from pitchers.
It be like this “ pitcher of the opposing team throws a pitch inside on a astros hitter and plunks him”, Astros gets mad , opposing pitcher “ hey I thought you knew what every pitch I’ll throw it’s to bad it hits you.”
suspend all players involved for a year. remove the world series championship from the astros. anything short is a slap in the face to all other MLB players teams and fans!!!°
If a player uses PED’s he is suspended
But it’s ok to wear a wire or cheat trash can style? Both are used to get a edge over the other guy so why not punishable the same way?
they need people to play on the team. no team = no revenue, and all other owners wouldn’t agree to that precedent.
I agree. If you fail a drug test, doesn’t matter if you signed with another team, you get suspended, too bad for that team for hiring a cheat. Same thing. Astros should be fielding a AAA team this year. And I am an Astros fan.
League felt otherwise, so it isn’t going to happen. At that point, your ire needs to be redirected toward Manfred for his own cover up.
Where is the proof they wore a wire? I must have missed that from the investigation.
Analysing Altuve’s stats detailed on the related article in FanGraphs, There should be no question that his MVP award should be taken away. Each player proven to be guilty of this scam should receive an asterisk for stats ’17, ’18 and ’19.
Absolutely
According to Tony Adams’ report, the banging became prevalent on May 22, 2017.
From that date, Altuve’s home road splits were
HOME: 205 AB, 6 HR, .346 AVG, .512 SLG, .923 OPS
ROAD: 222 AB, 11HR, .374 AVG, 608 SLG, 1041 OPS
The report also listed Altuve as the least of the offenders, with a 2.4% usage of the system which falls in the range of error for usage at all.
It’s pretty clear Altuve may not have participated at all, and wasn’t a beneficiary even if he did.
no, you see, Altuve HAD to have participated because he beat the salty Yankees.
No bangs if he’s wearing a buzzer.
Oh I see
The rest of the team implemented a rudimentary and easily detected system for everyone else and slapped a buzzer on Altuve.
Who created this buzzer garbage? Jose Altuve was not wearing some bionic contraption under his shirt for crying out loud. The guy has been one of the best hitters in the game his entire career. And if hes healthy this year he will be starting at 2nd base in the all star game
they cheated on the road too, the home/away splits mean absolutely nothing.
Bull!
The “Bull” was for oldoak. These clowns are still accepting the unacceptable.
There were reports they cheated on the road too.
Take their title, ban the players forever, Rose-style.
Exactly. Wonder what Rose thinks of the non punishment of cheating players. The players went along with the cheating, they are cheaters and got rewarded with a ring. Zero punishment. BS.
Road games will be fun this year. i know I plan to buy a seat right near the visitor on deck circle to let that tiny little pathetic joke of a man Jose Altuve know what I think of him.
Same with Bregman.
height jokes are still funny in 2020? you and ForestCobra are a matched pair.
Dark side is another fellow with a skewed sense of morality.
Especially Bregman. He has always come across as smug and arrogant. Altuve always seemed likeable to me. He’s still guilty as sin as deserves to be booed ferociously but Bregman would get it worse from me.
Badfinger you’re so bad, tough, and naughty.
“Stop beating a dead horse” = “Stop acknowledging the truth I want to pretend doesn’t exist.”
“Everyone was doing it” so….it’s no longer wrong? “Everyone was looting that Walmart, so I grabbed a few TV’s!!!”
cant wait for all the psychologists here to complain about how they know for a fact who is sincere or not in their apologies – or the blowhards to catagorically claim that none could ever be remorseful.
hey darkside, what is your obsession with defending these cheaters?
what makes you so sure Altuve needed to know which pitch was coming to take that Chapman pitch for a ride?
Darkside, what makes you so sure Altuve did not know. The entire team was in on the cheating according to the reports except Altuve?
Not at all. But imagine you have a lucrative contract with your company. Your coworkers are involved with some shady stuff. Your boss is also involved. His boss is involved. Your ceo is involved. Oh and the people at HR are in on it too. You expect him to implicate his entire company and risk his reputation within his field? Nobody is doing that for sign stealing. Not when its been going on for 130 years
How about being more honest with what happened instead of all the biased, disingenuous arguments and far reaching comparisons..
The expression on the pitcher’s face.??? He laughed after Altuve hit the HR. Altuve knew what pitch was coming.
if you must know, its a lot of things. its the belief that everyone should be culpable, its the belief that Fiers is a snitch, its how this was let to happen, its the outlandish punishment ideas, its the crazy allegations, its the hypocrisy of everyone else in the game, its the magnitude of the situation. its all outlandish. people need to get over this. they cheated. they got caught. they got punished. end of story.
Mike Fiers is no hero. Every Astros fan knows why he did it. Aj Hinch pulled him from a game in 2017 because fiers stinks and he proceeded to cuss out his manager in front of his entire team. He was left off the postseason roster and has been a bitter schoolboy since. He has kept his world series ring and pretended he cares about fringe major leaguers bludgeoned by the astros. The guy is a scumbag
Exactly.
It’s not the people who are doing wrong who are bad people, it’s the people who expose that wrong doing that are the bad people.
How dare he accurately represent what occurred.
mike fiers is an absolute hero, what he did is great for the game and he should be honored in some way. but sure dude,, blame the whistleblower.. real classy, houston!!!
I watched that Aaron Boone interview yesterday. He handled it with a lot of class. The coming storm headed toward the Houston players from the media, fans, and their peers in the league is going to be painful for them. They deserve every bit of it, and the mockery and heckling should act as a deterrent to any others trying to do the same thing.
All players involved should get suspended
I agree but doubt the union would stand for it. Which makes them a joke too.
I’m guessing Fiers knows all about cheating.
So allegedly MLB knew and did nothing. Shame on them!
Who said MLB knew? Only said A’s complained. That doesn’t mean there was any evidence of cheating at that time. It took a player with inside knowledge like Fiers to get them the evidence they needed to act.
the whole thing is a mess. everyone is claiming now that they knew ahead of time and told the league, but have no proof. and what of the players who left, told their new teams, and neither they nor the team told the league? surely a complaint from NYY via Maybin would have caught the league’s attention. im not going to allege a cover-up because i dont see the value in it, but it sure doesnt look good.
There are multiple reports of teams filing complaints with MLB or at least airing their concerns to MLB. All they had to do was actually investigate these claims and they would have had enough information.
Manfred’s actions here are no better than Selig’s were during the steroid era. He didn’t want this scandal because it hurts the product so he pushed it under the rug for as long as he could, and then when it came time to levy punishments he grabbed a few scapegoats and shat on them.
The problem is MLB had complaints but either didn’t didn’t take them seriously and/or didn’t follow up or did a half-a** job following up.
The “I had a bad outting and it must have been cuz cheating(ignore all other outtings)” thing detracts from this, for me.
If you’re referring to Mike Bolsinger, then that’s an uninformed comment. Bolsinger may not win his case, but what he is doing is potentially giving everyone in the league a solid bonus – IF, and that is a big “if,” his case makes it to court and gets to the discovery stage, that leaves the Astros open to a whole new investigation, one that will be far more calculated and show more scrutiny than the hack investigation that Manfred and the MLB made.
Everything the MLB has been trying to hide, to sweep under the rug so the game can magnanimously move on, and things they didn’t find (i.e. buzzers) could/would be uncovered. All that would eventually be made for public consumption.
So Bolsinger’s case may seem like it comes from someone who just wasn’t as talented as everyone else whining about not sticking in the big leagues, but there is FAR MORE brewing underneath the case that could make things very interesting for the Astros. Just imagine many of these players and former employees having to testify under oath. Altuve and Bregman would be trying to hit MLB pitching one weekend, but then on their days off, they’d be making a deposition. Try concentrating on your job when you have the law breathing down your neck. I’m all for Bolsinger and any fan of baseball should be too.
“That boys good”
Manfred clearly doesn’t care. He doesn’t investigate anything until it’s out in the public? Great philosophy on how to run baseball.
suprised he hasnt been ran out on a rail yet. contract or not, cant imagine anyone thinks he handled the issue properly. i dont know why they keep him in his position.
“Had Fiers not eventually gone public with his complaints, it’s possible nothing would have been done.”
Well, isn’t that just grand?
Manfred just doesn’t do damage control well. The easiest solution would be to take the Astros title away for 2017. Think the players care about their title? Think again; the financial value of the ring is paltry. Think the owners care? They’ve already kept their skirts clean, though anybody who follows the Astros knows Crane picks the toilet paper out, never mind knows about in-game chicanery.
Removing their title would satisfy the fans lust for justice, and nobody gets hurt, financially or otherwise. The whole thing would be over by now.
Bob Tillman … you nailed it! Bravo.
This subject is getting old to me so I’m going to look for another baseball info site. I know this subject will be around for many many years but the almost daily reminder is overkill in my view.
Bye.
Maybe you should talk to someone in baseball about it. I assure you that the problem is the problem, not the articles detailing the issue. Asking someone to not do their job is ridiculous, maybe you could skip this one while others still read the content.
I assume he did as I did, skip the article so he could laugh at all the comments crying about manfred.
Derekb first not one cares if you leave.
Next it is not overkill. Spring Training just started and players started to comment as they came together. It is news.
But hey go find another site … you know the ones that will not think this is news. Enjoy.
Poor little players need the rich owner present to face questions. Face the Fucking music Astros players
Well…. Looky here. Beltran played with Robertson.
If these cheaters get banned from baseball they can try out for Stomp 2.
I can’t wait to hear if Velander has anything more to say about the alleged juiced balls from last season. He’s such a stand-up guy…
When he was accepting his Cy Young award at the BWAA dinner, he was so arrogant and hypocritical, making light of “analytics” and cheating. Now that more has been discovered, I wonder what he has to say now.
twitter.com/short_porch/status/1221295033258782721
The player’s union should investigate the mlb front office. If they ignored the A’s and other teams’ complaints, then that is just a travesty.
Marius you may have been joking or half joking but you know you have a point. The A’s reported it. Why was it not investigated much earlier? It could have been stopped then.
Crane is also showing himself to be a rich, arrogant fool. All he had to do was a mea culpa, give up the trophy, and move on. He gives up nothing of value, and he becomes a “principled owner”, a hero to fans everywhere, a respected man.. In other words, he volunteers to take the bullet from a gun that’s never fired.
None of this stuff is hard.
I do not think Crane is a hero to fans everywhere. At least I certainly hope not. I agree with you on that.
If Fiers doesn’t say anything, nothing would have been done, what a F*****G joke. The Astros aren’t the only thing that needed cleaning out, MLB itself needs new management and direction. get Manfred and all his cronies out of there, and I thought Selig was horrible……
Agree get rid of Manfred
Delusional fan response, but I guess that’s the right of a fan. The reason Fiers put his name on the record (and others off the record) is because what the Astros did was beyond what any other team was doing. The players knew it. Multiple complaints were sent to the Commissioner’s office over several years and nothing was done, yet teams across the game knew of the Astros cheating. The only way action was taken was for someone brave enough to step forward publicly to force Manfred to take action. You wouldn’t see so many players angry at this situation and the Astros if they were doing anything vaguely similar. Frankly, they would have gotten away with it if they simply stopped when Manfred came out with his first set of rules in 2017. They blatantly ignored them, and instead double downed on their unprecedented cheating through the 2017 post season and, of course, as the report said, they continued through 2018 and no doubt through 2019 too. Successful cheaters don’t just stop. I don’t blame Astros fans for being Astros fans. I do blame them for attempting to defend by deflection.
This doo sh makes Selig look like a great commish.
Hinch’s comments continue to make things worse. He may work in MLB again, but he should never manage. There are only two choices here: 1) He was a knowing participant; or 2) He allowed himself to be controlled by the players and was too weak to challenge them or engage with the front office on a solution. His actions damaged the Astros and the entire game. No one should hire him as a manager again.
Not a chance he allowed himself to be controlled. His team was winning and he was fine with that. So I’ll go with knowing participant.
Question:
Do you think the first Astroisks regular who comes up to bat in the first spring training game gets plunked?
My big issue with Manfred is the minor leagues. To take baseball away from small communities is just plain stupid. While all of the players are dumping on Houston, I believe if their team was doing it they would have gone along. Sign stealing using covert methods is not new.
Jim Crane, “Our opinion is that this didn’t impact the game.”
Asked whether the Astros cheated when they used video to steal signs in 2017, Crane replied: “We broke the rules. You can phrase that any way you want.”
So why are you here? And if it’s for an apology, then what exactly are you apologizing for? I’m not seeing any contrition from some with such deep pockets.
Or is this press conference just keep you from welcoming any new Cuban players you’ve signed?
I agree with all you who have called Manfred a joke. Been a joke from the start and he’ll continue to be a joke long after he’s out of baseball. It’s clear he knew about it and I felt all along that nothing would’ve been done if someone didn’t bring it into the public eye. This guy is worried more about TV ratings than the game itself. Shame on him
Hey Heaney, how about focusing on not being a garbage pitcher? Instead of crying about what someone else does.
It’s hardly “crying about what someone else does” when there’s cheating involved, and you call yourself an ‘Angelsfan’?
Heaney’s career ERA is almost 5. My point is, he needs to focus on making himself a better player. Heaney as a first round pick, you was supposed to be a top of the rotation starter is a bust. But he would rather try to put the blame elsewhere. Instead on himself, for his lack of ability.
Astros players are as responsible as Hinch. However, in this day and age of woke political correctness that translates to sports fields and sporting organisations around the world we must make pathetic excuses for what they did and what they were personally involved in.
There are players in other sports around the world that got suspended for a year and suffered severe financial penalties through their sponsors for far less than what these Astros players were involved in.
If a pitcher is tipping their pitches by certain actions then maybe you pick up on that in a game situation and let other players know(that is not cheating), but stealing signs using technology just shows no respect & understanding for the game of baseball.
Hypocrite Verlander. That’s his name now. HV, those are his initials now.
Crap like his is why personal-disgust non-votes occur in HOF balloting. That absolutely should not happen, but BBWAA voters are imperfect beings just like pitchers. The problem often is the rare drive required to be great at a thing is also what makes you an unendurably rotten person.
Liked it way better when blissfully unaware of his personal makeup. It has been impossible to watch a game involving him for years, but luckily for him he has managed not to miss me.
@ Sergefunction What has Verlander got to do with this? Maybe I am unaware. Was he banging the trash can, or did I miss his at bats where he went 4-4 and hit for the cycle because he knew what was coming down the pipe..