After an offseason of trade rumors, the Indians still employ superstar Francisco Lindor. This is the time of year for extension talks and there are indications of mutual interest. But it’s far from clear there’s a match to be made.
Both Lindor and Cleveland president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti addressed the shortstop’s contract situation today, with ESPN.com’s Alden Gonzalez covering. He’s slated to earn $17.5MM this year with one more year of arbitration eligibility remaining, though the only hope of him remaining in town for the long run would be a new deal of some kind.
Lindor left no doubt he sees Cleveland as “home” and expressed a strong desire to stay and win with his sole professional organization. The 26-year-old also suggested he thinks a long-term contract is possible — and not just in the perfunctory way we sometimes hear from players.
“If the negotiations or whatever makes sense, it’s gonna happen,” Lindor said of a potential blockbuster extension. “The team is not broke. The league is not broke. There’s money.”
So, if Lindor truly wants to stay and feels the economic bridge can be spanned … is there a chance? Antonetti was rather less sanguine, his comments leaving the sense that player and team may well be fated by broader forces to part.
While he says there have been “meaningful efforts” to reach a deal in the past and acknowledges Lindor’s sincerity, Antonetti struck a realistic tone. While the team would also “love for Francisco to be here long-term,” Antonetti explained, it just isn’t that simple.
“It’s not because of a lack of desire on our part, or not because of a lack of desire on Francisco’s part. But more when you look at the economics of baseball and the realities of building championship teams in a small market, it gets really tough. The interest is there, the desire is there, on both sides, to try to get something done. And whether or not that’s possible we just don’t know.”
That stance jives with prior comments of Indians owner Paul Dolan, who has made clear he doesn’t find $300MM+ contracts plausible in the near future for his organization. Dolan also has advised fans to enjoy Lindor while he’s still with the club.
ripcookies
Gleyber Torres for Francisco Lindor straight up.
Would’ve never imagined saying this, but gleyber can go play with his buddy Altuve in 4 years since he’s more important than his own teammate Aaron Judge.
James1955
The Yankees are not trading Torres.
ripcookies
I’ve thought that forever too. But after his comments in regards to basically backing the astros and Altuve. I’d take lindor for the next 10 years over gleyber.
dynamite drop in monty
lol you guys are so soft. Let the dude have an opinion
higgy5220
Your delusional if you think his comments were backing the Astros and altuve
James1955
dynamite. You state your opinion and posters can disagree with you.
ripcookies
Maybe. But hasn’t this whole astros cheating scandal made everyone delusional? The players, the fans, the media, the greats, the owners, and the commissioner?
puhl
What did Torres say?
fieldsj2
This ain’t the Real Housewives, who cares if he backed Altuve or didn’t!
emac22
No
colelovesthenats121
Gleyber Torres has a lot of potential as he gets older so I don’t think the Yankees would do that
Ejemp2006
Lindor and Hand for Seager, Kelly, and Joc Pederson. Done!
Indiansjoe
Hell no!
jjp
ROFLMAO!!!!!
ripcookies
I don’t think that’s enough for just Hand, let alone just Lindor. These wanna be GM’s are too funny.
mohoney
Any trade for Francisco Lindor would have to include Gavin Lux.
3Men&ABibee
The trade has about much a chance of happening than you making sense. Zerooo
ripcookies
First off. It’s more of a joke than anything. I love the Yankees and would never trade gleyber, even tho he will be moved back to second when we sign lindor in two years.
But the fact your trying to troll me is laughable. Obviously you have no idea about baseball because if you did, you’d realize that is literally the only player in the game the Indians would trade lindor for.
ripcookies
And honestly I read a quick tidbit of an article in regard to his comments. I guess I should watch full interview. But obv I didn’t mean it. Just shows you the state of baseball. Guess I love baseball more than most people.
dbacksrs
Comment on your own comment.
dbacksrs
Comment on your own comment
ripcookies
Double post on your own comment.
seth3120
It’s an app glitch it happens
Chief Wahoo Lives
I have heard a couple of different reporters who know Lindor say that Lindor has made it clear to them that he hates the city of New York and does not want to play there. I know that sometimes players change their minds based strictly off of money, but all things being relatively equal, Lindor will not sign with the Yankees or Mets unless the money total is massively higher there.
ripcookies
That’s wishful thinking from an Indians fan. But he has never once publicly said that.
Gerrit Cole wasn’t a fan of NYC either.
gson
Gerrit Cole absolutely was a fan of NY.. and specifically, the NYY’s..
Chief Wahoo Lives
Actually, yes, Lindor has said that to at least two reporters that I know of. Bud Shaw is one of the reporters and he (Shaw) said it on a Cleveland TV sports show a few weeks ago.
Mick1956
Yeah and everyone said although he was a Yankee fan, he was a California Kid, a west coast guy, and would return to the west coast. He didn’t.
3Men&ABibee
You was not joking than but now you are? hmm. Also, no one is trolling you. I don’t care enough about you or your ignorance to troll you. Who are you? Yeah. no one in my life i care about, so if you want to pretend you know more about baseball than me, than go ahead and pretend just like you pretend you have friends.
emac22
That’s pretty lame.
Do you really think they’ll let him leave for nothing as a free agent of they can’t get Torres?
Eatdust666
Lindor is great and a better overall player than Torres, don’t get me wrong, but I still would not do not that. I would never trade Torres, but if I were to do so, I would only do it for a top of the rotation pitcher or 2-3 top prospects.
thetruth 2
Lol not happening
Vizionaire
can dolan afford $200 mil? bexause lindor ain’t getting 300!
Indiansjoe
Your an idiot if you think he isn’t getting over 300 million when he hits free agency.
3Rivers
Don’t can people names.
DrDan75
Machado got 300 million. That’s more or less the going rate now for a top FA.
DrDan75
Machado got 300 million. That’s more or less the going rate now for a top FA.
CKinSTL
Curious as to why you think that. The best comparison seems to be Machado, who got $300 million.
SalaryCapMyth
I think Viz means Lindor isn’t getting $300 million from Cleveland and not that he isn’t getting $300 million from anyone.
CKinSTL
Well, if Lindor can get $300mm from another team.. then he sure as heck isn’t going to take $200mm from the Indians.
SalaryCapMyth
It was said in jest.
SalaryCapMyth
It was said in jest.
jrjbertsch
The biggest problem for the Indians is not the money but the risk of a bad contract.Lessons learned from Grady Sizemore.
The Indians could commit to $300 M for 10 yrs. amortize it over 30 years and make it all non-guaranteed, with lots of incentives. They will also need to pay insurance to protect against injury.
There is also a variation of a non-guaranteed contract, whereby you set up 10 1-year contracts. Then go through an arbitration process each year to adjust the contract to match expectations.
3Men&ABibee
They can’t pay him 25-30 percent of the payroll and compete. It will not happen and should not happen. The moment he said 500 million sounds good, he sealed his fate. This is just to save face and make the team look bad. Unless new ownership comes in, Lindors time is coming to an end
gson
You want to dance.. you have to pay the band…
If it is meant to be.. this is the time for it to happen.. The Indians have shown they are not going to be taken advantage of as it relates to their future players.. This is exactly what to expect from Frankie..
Like many fans.. I hope he keeps his wigwam on the north coast..
Chief Wahoo Lives
“You Want to dance, you have top pay the band.”
Are you taking that from Rocky?
Give me the money, come on give me the money.
crazy4cleveland
Antonetti basically said “yeah we’re trying but Dolan is cheap”
gson
No he didn’t..
Dorothy_Mantooth
I don’t understand how Cleveland is considered a “small market” team. I believe they use tv market size to determine this, but Cleveland is big and between the city itself and suburbs, there are millions of people there. Maybe there are economic/income factors involved in attendance numbers but they had no problems selling out the Jake in the 90’s when they actually spent money and regularly fielded a competitive team, including free agent additions. Build it and they will come!
Indiansjoe
There was no browns then, sadly people in Cleveland would rather watch the browns loose than the Indians win.
gson
The confluence of the Browns leaving for Baltimore.. the Cavs absolutely cratering and the brand spanking new replacement stadium Jacobs Field.. all came together to create a single point for spending discretionary dollars.
Btw.. the old stadium has been repurposed.. it makes a lovely fishing reef..
MoRivera 1999
The greater metropolitan area of Cleveland is 28th in the nation at 2 million, clearly a small market by comparison to large markets
refereemn77
Media market size has them at #19. The television market is defined as Cleveland-Akron. For comparison, Minneapolis-St Paul is ranked #15 television market.
Finlander
Dorothy, yes, there can be a difference between “small market” and “small budget” teams. Cleveland fits more into the latter than the former for some reason.
CKinSTL
Ha, if you can’t tell the difference between NYC and Cleveland.. well, you need to travel more.
Chief Wahoo Lives
No one is saying that Cleveland is a large market like NY, just that some of us are saying that Cleveland and it’s TV market are mid market, not small market.
Chief Wahoo Lives
Besides Cleveland they also have Akron, Canton, Loraine and large suburbs like Parma and Lakewood that have large populations that are all in the viewing area. No, Cleveland really isn’t a small market, it’s a medium sized market. The Dolan’s just try to claim it to be small market to justify their cheapness. The Browns and Cavs don’t make small market claims about Cleveland.
themaven
Cleveland is ranked as:
52nd biggest city in the US
33rd largest metro region
25th biggest urban area
17th largest TV market
So yeah it’s a small market,considering there are 30 MLB teams.
Chief Wahoo Lives
17th out of 30 is basically mid market, not small market. And the Indians have some of the largest TV viewership numbers of all MLB teams.
Avory
Of course it’s a small market, more geographically bound than most too (Pirates to the east, Tigers to the west, Reds to the south, Blue Jays to the north).
The facts are the facts: Cleveland is the smallest market that has the three major sports.
If they started all over, Cleveland would not get a major league baseball franchise.
The only way Cleveland can even pretend to be a major league-type city is to keep its baseball team, and it sure as heck would help if its so-called fan base appreciated they even have baseball in their town with an industry-respected front office and an owner who doesn’t threaten to move the team.
All the rest is just belly-achin’.
Go Tribe.
themaven
That TV market stretches from Sanduskey to Painesville and down to Columbus.The metro and urban regions are more demonstrative of actual market size since those people can actually go to the games and drive a half hour or less one way.
In other words,not a lot of Indians season ticket holders in Akron/Canton.
Yes a lot of people stay home and watch the games….The conclusion from this?They are too cheap to go to the ballpark.
Chief Wahoo Lives
Are you really trying to claim that 17th out of 30 in TV market size is really small market? 17th is basically middle of the road, which would make them a mid-market team. And TV is where the owners make their money these days. Ticket sales is just a nice bonus, but not even close to where they make their real money from..
themaven
TV contracts are static,the Indians make 10% of what the the major markets receive from their local TV deals.
The big payrolls in the Jacobs years were driven by 455 straight sell outs.
When you’re making 50 million a year from your local cable deal losing 200.000 in attendance at 40 bucks a ticket most definitely affects your bottom line.
Taken as a whole the Indians are a small market team.
emac22
Especially when you measure the economy instead of the numbers of humans fighting for the same pie.
CKinSTL
Good point on Akron/Canton but keep in though that most teams have fan bases that reach beyond their defined metro areas. Cleveland is not alone there.
I’ll take Dolan over Haslam… Ha.
themaven
The Indians have won over 90 games in four straight seasons,set a franchise record for total payroll in 2018(i.e. actually spent money and had a competitive team) and attendance went down 7% in 2018 and 10% in 2019
Build it and they stayed away is more like it.
CKinSTL
I mean, it’s big enough to have a baseball team… But it is quite small compared to the big market teams like NYC, LA, Chicago, Texas, Atlanta, DC etc. For reference, the NYC metro area is about 10x as big as Cleveland’s (numbers might vary a bit depending on how the metro area is defined).
Still a nice Midwestern city though, if that’s your thing.
Col_chestbridge
Has to do mostly with MSA size, in which Cleveland is 33rd, and that includes Akron which is 30-45 minutes away. MSA size determines how many people buy your regional sports network, which determines how much that network can pay you. Cleveland is the second smallest MSA in MLB (Milwaukee being the smallest). They only get $40m/year from their cable deal despite good ratings. Bigger markets get hundreds of millions.
vtadave
Ruiz, May, and Peters for Lindor. Dodgers going for it.
ripcookies
No lux, no lindor!
Chief Wahoo Lives
Lux, May, Ruiz and two other top prospects from the Dodgers for Lindor.
bobtillman
As Charlie Finley once told Reggie Jackson:” You’re right; you’re worth a million a year. You just ain’t getting it from me”.
Lindor’s right, the Indians are right. Medium market teams can’t afford the Lindor-s of the world. Trade him? Dunno; depends on what they’re offered. But I wouldn’t be too quick; they’re still competitive.
It’s a balancing act, but the Tribe SEEMS to be good at it….at least so far……
MoRivera 1999
Cleveland is a small market. Greater Metro of 2 million, 28th in the nation.
Diatribefan
With Cleveland’s luck they would find the money and then it would turn into another Wayne Garland deal.
sufferforsnakes
Your name is definitely cool.
BobSacamano
Urias, Trammel, & Will Myers for Lindor
gson
A guy who was traded to the Brewers, a AA player who can’t hit AA pitching and an expensive OF’er.. why would anyone want that trio of players.. as FA’s?..
BobSacamano
Haha, ohh. I suppose you’re right
trbfan
I hope this was sarcasm. Urias was already traded to Mil and NO ONE is taking Myers. SD is stuck with him.
BobSacamano
Ehh Yeah, I didn’t know Urias was traded. I believe if SD finds a way to off load Myers, (via prospects) they’ll be in the chase for Franky.
towinagain
As an SD fan itd take Patino, Baez,Morejon, and Arias
solaris602
Keeping Lindor – even if he were to give CLE a hometown discount – just wouldn’t work. They’d have a fortune tied up in him and end up surrounding him with league minimum mediocrity. Wouldn’t be long before they’d be looking for a taker for Lindor and his contract. I’d love to see him stay, but it just wouldn’t work.
MLBTRS
Who are you to offer such perfect logic? There’s no place for that here.
Finlander
Lysander? Love it – didn’t you used to pitch in relief for the Twins?? Rick??
The Cleveland team, and farm, appears to me to need a balance adjustment. Trading Lindor seems to be one option to do that. Outfield, and maybe some infield talent and a strong catching prospect, seems needed. There is plenty of young starting pitching, and I like their recent high octane bullpen gets. Trading Lindor could address needs without parting with prime, affordable/controllable pitching. I like their 3B guy coming up, but the OF looks thin for the future. And a blue chip catcher to handle the young pitching talent is probably necessary. Trading Lindor may be the best way to address it.
gson
Look closer at the Indians minor league system.. There are at least two blue chip outfield prospects and one catching prospect that are wending their way through the Indians system and with at least one who should be contributing as early as the 2020 season. There is some balance.. but not in a way that would be considered problematic.. the Indians farm system is loaded with middle infield talent (primarily SS’s but, some who probably will be moved to 2B or 3B) and a littany of strong young starting pitchers.. Trading Lindor for minor league quality depth and balance?.. Disagree with this..
themaven
The only positions the Indians farm system has no depth of prospects at are catcher and first base.
Finlander
Gson. The MI depth in the farm only supports trading Lindor to level out payroll for the future. I think Mercado is a great find for CF. But after the disastrous Zimmer/Frazier episodes, I am not sure how much confidence I have in current corner OF options. They are more prevalent and easier to obtain in the market. I merely suggested Cleveland is in a good position to leverage this through a trade. Certainly some MLB talent needs to come back as well.
I admit I am not familiar with the catching prospect you refer to. And I like Perez fine today. I was just suggesting that, given the young pitching already up and more on the way, it would be nice to have a catcher in place familiar with those pitchers and participating in their development. Thanks for the dialogue – I am not a Cleveland roster expert at all, but I am a fan of the city and I wish them well. James Gang/Joe Walsh era, and Rock & Roll HOF! And my favorite rookie pickup in Rotisserie baseball, Cory Snyder 1986.
CKinSTL
You gently corrected a poster for bad form… There’s no place for that here. You need to call him names and insert your wackiest political views.
Finlander
Ha – I will load my scrambled eggs with ghost peppers and exchange my breakfast beer for some whisky. Game on!
Lindor will net a huge haul. But Cleveland should have kept Cory Snyder..
ripcookies
Lux and Torres would be the only two guys the Indians want for Lindor. So everyone save their time by coming up with some bs trade proposals from their name pretend GM office.
Acuna Jr would be the only other one, but I don’t think the Indians would even want that team friendly contract
Maybe Guerrero Jr.
Lindor is THAT good.
thetruth 2
Torres is a little bit more valuable than Lux don’t you think? One is an established all-star and another is an unproven rookie. Lindor May be “that good” but he has 2 years of control. Acuna and Vlad are FAR more valuable contracts where it’s not even remotely close.
Finlander
Salaries and their respective spots on the contractual controllability curve suggests nada. No questioning Lindor’s talent. But the talent eval has to be weighed against the payroll and contractual predictions, and Lindor’s desire for a contract in the hundreds of millions range in a couple years will chase away several teams.
MLBTRS
Trade him, right #$%&@ now. I’ll take three above average players for Lindor any day and for about the same amount of $
ripcookies
It’s the most logical thing to do. But he’s too good and means too much to Cleveland for mediocre players.
MLBTRS
“Above average” is not the same as “mediocre”.
ripcookies
When your talking about the best shortstop of this generation, above average is mediocre.
emac22
No.
Sorry.
Words don’t suddenly change meaning when you’re talking about really good baseball players.
tbone0816
Lindor for Carpenter, O’Neil, Gorman, Libbertore, C-Mart
hockeyjohn
Why would the Indians take Carpenter? They would just keep and pay that money to Lindor.
sufferforsnakes
You have heard of the 30-man, correct?
Michael Chaney
Antonetti at least has a point here; I’ve had my problems with ownership (they’ve forced the front office to basically sit on their hands two offseasons in a row), but I also don’t think that’s the sole problem here either.
The reality is that most small market teams have won while their superstars were young and cheap. The Royals had Hosmer/Moustakas cheap, for instance, and even a big market team like the Nationals could take advantage of paying Soto next to nothing while Scherzer, Strasburg et al are making big money. Having such a large chunk of your payroll dedicated to one player rarely works out, especially when you’re a small market team. The Marlins found that out with Stanton, and the Rockies are finding that out with Arenado.
But here’s where I stand: you can still win with a big contract if you build the rest of the team well. The Indians have almost no long-term financial commitments and a farm system full of potential impact prospects that are in A-ball or lower (Naylor, Valera, Bracho, Freeman). Even Nolan Jones has barely played in AA, and two years from now he’d still be pre-arb.
It’s definitely possible for the Indians to compete even with a ~$30 million AAV on the books, since the rest of the roster is set up to be young and cheap in a few years.
Indiansjoe
I agree with you that ownership has held the team back 2 years in a row, I don’t think you can pay Lindor 30+ million a year and compete with these owners in this market. The only thing I wish for is chose. If you are gonna try to win, then try….with in reason, but spend reasonably and get what you need to win. If not, then sell and let’s look forward to the kids coming. There is no shame in next year, or 2 or 3 years from now, we know it has to happen in our fan world. Just don’t waste what little time we have almost competing, but not really
themaven
Attendance has dropped two year in a row after the team set a record for spending,7% and 10%.
If you spend and revenue goes down then spending has to go down.
Avory
Exactly. The team spent well beyond its revenue for a couple of years there in an effort to maximize opportunity. Now they’re just scaling back to reality, I got no problem with that. It’s not like they’re throwing in the towel, for crying out loud. The team is still very good and will be competitive for years to come. What are you supposed to do? Continue record payrolls that are unsustainable by revenue ad infinitum? Cleveland fans are ridiculous with their expectations.
themaven
The narrative is that the owner is cheap…the reality is the fans are too cheap to go to the games,they stay at home and watch it on TV.
Team wins 90 games in a row for four seasons and it’s attendance goes down 10%……that has to be a record.
cheesesteak
Cleveland is a blue-collar town. It takes a half weeks pay to take your family to the park. Most families can only afford to go twice a season.
Gtfdrussell
Cleveland is one of the best-run organizations in baseball, maybe even sports. They have the most wins of any team over the last few years. To sell out the stadium, you still need people to come from 60-90 minutes away. How does that work when most of the jobs in that area are manufacturing, typically 7a-3p / 3p-11p / 11p-7a. 2/3’s of those workers don’t even get to watch the game in its entirety on TV. The 455 sell-outs will never happen again. And people shouldn’t act like 29 other teams do it. It was extremely rare.
I agree with Michael Chaney’s comment about being able to absorb a $30mil AAV contract. Cleveland doesn’t have long-term contracts. They lock up their potential stars by buying out their arbitration years and grabbing 1 or 2 extra. The Acuna Jr deal is what Cleveland should have done (and maybe they tried) with Lindor. Give him length when he’s young and affordable.
If you take the $17.5 mil Lindor makes, you only have to let go of Santana’s salary to make the math work. And, if you’re tracking based off of this year’s payroll, they need only to go back to 2 year’s ago spending and could keep Santana.
It’s not the money that is keeping the deal from happening. It’s the long-term commitment.
emac22
Who told you Lindor was signing for 30 mil? He’s being traded because he told them 30 wasn’t close.
The question is never ” if you can build a team around a specific player/contract.
It’s if any team is better spending that much money on one player or if it’s better investing that money in something else.
I’d argue the team is much better long term investing the 40 million Lindor wants per year all into player development.
How about trading Lindor to Baltimore for that catcher they just drafted? That’s the kind of bold move they should make but couldn’t because of pressure from casual fans.
Gtfdrussell
I didn’t say he would sign for $30 mil. I also don’t recall seeing him say $30 mil wasn’t close. I remember hearing that “they haven’t offered the right thing” and something along the lines of “who wouldn’t want $500 million.”
I also didn’t say they should build the team around 1 contract. The fact that the rest of the team is built on the cheap side, makes the possibility of paying that contract more likely.
If the argument is buying more players to lower-level contracts and labeling it “player development” then OK. But outside of pitching, Cleveland isn’t exactly killing it in that regard.
If Dolan and Antonetti were letting so called “casual fans”: influence their decisions, they wouldn’t be a perennial playoff contender. It seems that their plan is to contend every year, retool, but never rebuild. But remember that 8 of the last 10 WS champions have been in the Top 10 in payroll during those same 10 years. Statistically speaking, You can contend for $100 million, but you won’t win the WS.
Avory
Nonsense. The Tribe had the Cubs down 3-1 in 2016 and the Red Sox down 3-1 in the ALCS in 2007 (winning the World Series was a foregone conclusion for the AL winner that year). They also had a very strong team in 2017 and had the Yankees down 2-0 in the ALDS and let that series slip away. Not being able to win those series had anything whatsoever to do with payroll.levels.
Furthermore, the Rays and A’s last year had formidable teams that could have easily won the World Series with payrolls far less than last year’s Tribe. Payroll wouldn’t have prevented those teams from doing what the Nationals did.
And saying “outside of pitching” Cleveland hasn’t done much is like saying, outside of the great engine that makes the car reliably go, the car is junk.
Do I wish the Indians had better luck with everyday players, sure, but when you sign/draft Jose Ramirez, Francisco Lindor, and Roberto Perez and astutely trade for Carlos Santana, Oscar Mercado, Jordan Luplow, Franmil Reyes, etc., I’m not exactly crying in my soup.
Gtfdrussell
I didn’t say you CAN’T win without spending. But in the last 14 years, the WS winner has been in the Top 10 of payroll all but 2 times (Houston and KC).
“Could have easily won” is still the same as “didn’t win.”
Avory
What you said in the very last sentence of the comment I was responding to:
“You can contend for $100 million, but you won’t win the WS..”
Sooooo…how is my reading comprehension faulty? I see no qualification whatsoever in that statement of yours.
Gtfdrussell
The qualification is in the 2 words preceding your cherry-picked quotation in the same sentence. “Statistically speaking.”
Statistics such as;
the last 9 WS champions have had payrolls over $100 million.
Cleveland ranks 23rd of 30 in average payroll over the last 10 seasons
Only 2 times in the last 10 years has the WS winner been lower than the median payroll
and
Only 3 times in the last 10 years has the WS winner been outside the Top 10 payrolls for that season.
ASapsFables
This article is a microcosm or a good example of why the industry of MLB needs a better basis to determine player salaries and team payroll than what the current competitive balance tax is providing. Both sides need to forge a better plan, one that more resembles the other professional team sports. The next CBA needs to strongly consider the implementation of a salary cap AND minimum floor for the good of the sport, be it the players, the teams and the fans.
Baseball is reaching a critical period ahead and needs to address its long term financial future with the next CBA. There has already been an agreement with increased roster sizes and more time off during the season for the players. There has also been a willingness to adopt the laser TrackMan strike zone with the apparent blessing of the umpires which would guarantee that MLB is the only professional team sport that will be virtually free of judgement calls.
Expansion of two more teams would add even more jobs for the MLBPA and additional revenue for the owners as well as fix the regular and postseason scheduling problems the sport currently faces with 30 teams. A smarter split of MLB revenues using a a cap and floor could help achieve better competitive balance and eliminate the crippling overspending and directed tanking that has been going on with so many teams in recent years.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It’s not good for the industry of baseball, be it teams, players or fans to have such as split between the big market ‘haves’ and small market ‘have-nots’.
emac22
Awesome post!
Things I’d add to the negotiations.
1. Minimum salary limits for minor league players
2. Bigger mlb roster so smaller market teams can afford to compete using other ideas instead of the team with the most well rounded players winning most of the time.
Give one expansion team to the players union to fund retirement benefits. I’m not sure where this one would go but giving players a little ownership perspective would be interesting, it also gives the players something very significant to balance out a big return for the owners in the next cba and would leave players and the union all having a vested interest in the long term interest of the game instead of just their career.
Avory
Interesting thought regarding MLBPA owning a team!
imindless
Honestly the guy is a good player but not worth what he is likely to command. Since the inclusion of the juiced ball sure his homers have gone up but he still produces a 120 ops + and his war is tied directly with his glove which as he ages will fade. Someone is gonna regret that deal if he gets 300+ million.
Lastly if lindor was really about the team he would have been happy to take an arenado deal. Im 100% the indians would be more than willing to offer him that deal with opt outs too. Greed plays a huge role.
Marius
I hate the small market talk. Revenue is generated in so many ways, attendance is not a big factor. This isn’t a gate league where you are relying on attendance figures to keep your head above water. Owners are billionaires, TV deals and media content is huge. Get outta here with that small/mid market talk
hockeyjohn
According to fangraphs, the Dodgers get 200 million dollars a year from their local TV contract while the Indians get 50 million. That extra 150 million is huge. Small market teams are at a distinct disadvantage.
Avory
Exactly. Guys like Marius believe if he were a billionaire he’d spend all his money on his baseball team. And that’s precisely why Marius isn’t a billionaire.
themaven
No other owner spends his own income to make payroll since Illitch,but the Dolans are somehow expected to.
Avory
And Illitch has apparently learned his lesson. All that money spent and now look where they are: perpetual 100 loss seasons, an interminably long rebuild, and no ring.
If that’s what “spend when the time is right” gets you, sorry, I’ll pass. Give me spending practices that provide the best chance at perpetual contention and I’ll take that every single time over the Tiger model.
Marius
Come at me with facts. From 16-18 Cleveland generated over 871 million in revenue.
Marius
Cleveland took home nearly 120 million in revenue sharing in 2018 plus another 224 million in overall revenue according to fangraphs. They ranked 2nd in tv ratings last year. Don’t believe the poor me attitude of these owners.
Avory
The Cleveland Indians spend the same percentage of its recurring revenue on team operations as anyone else, and in many cases MORE than many big market clubs. It’s just that their denominator (revenues) is significantly less.
You may not like it; you may want your owner to dip into his billions to operate a baseball team for your pleasure, but frankly, I think it’s ridiculous to expect the owner of my team to behave differently than the owners of other teams, just because I feel I have personal right to a championship.
You can think that way, but it is an unrealistic view of the world. One that a self-entitled person who doesn’t think is getting what he “deserves” leads to bitterness, resentment, and cynicism. Which, sadly, is an apt appraisal of many so-called “baseball fans” in Cleveland.
Marius
I don’t think that I could care any less than I do about Cleveland. I’m not even a fan. This is more of a general discussion about mlb revenue and teams crying poor when there’s plenty there, just like Lindor said
Chief Wahoo Lives
@Avory
If the Dolan’s (Or any other team owners) can’t afford to spend high enough on team payroll to win at least one World Series title in 20 years, then they should have never bought the team in the first place. I can’t guarantee that I’m right on my numbers here…. But didn’t the Dolan’s pay something like 300 million for the team, and the team is now worth over a billion?
If they are unwilling to spend to win a WS title, then sell the team to someone who will.
If you buy a professional sports team, you are morally obligated to do what it takes to win a title.. If you won’t do what it takes to win a title, then you were selfish in buying the team in the first place.
The Indians haven’t won a WS title since 1948. The owners have a moral obligation to spend the money necessary to win a WS. And if they won’t do that, then they need to sell the team.
Seasons of winning 90+ games only mean so much. You need to win a title.
Avory
“Morally obligated”?
Wow. Are you in la-la land.
mlbnyyfan
Let’s make a deal. Andujar, Frazier and Devi Garcia for Lindor. I still feel like the Yankees missing piece is a legitimate lead off guy.
ripcookies
As a yankee fan, I’d love this. But Cleveland won’t do it. The Yankees have already offered that, plus more.
thetruth 2
Selling the farm for a guy on 2 years we don’t need is stupid.
Finlander
Dominguez, Andujar and Medina would be closer to selling the farm than offering a headcase defensively challenged OF and a pint-sized two pitch pitcher. Cleveland MIGHT listen to something along these lines instead. Does NY have the cajones to offer Jasson D in a deal for a virtually guaranteed 2 years of AL dominance?
thetruth 2
Let’s not this is stupid.
gson
Agree with you on the Yankees lacking a leadoff hitter.. Frankie Lindor would be just that and more.. The deal suggested, has three problems.. Andujar is the least of the three problems as his health has not been determined and the position he plays defensively is uncertain. The other two guys should not even be considered. Frazier was sent away for reasons that the Yankees are dealing with now.. He’s not worth what he was when he was sent away.. IOW.. he’s regressed in value. Little Deivi Garcia is a smaller, lower velocity thrower of the baseball as Danny Salazar.. Garcia is not a # 1 prospect. He is unwanted.. and, mostly, unneeded.. Your deal.. might be a good one for a team like the Reds.. who have a young SS prospect (Jose Israel-Garcia) who lookes like a perfect lead off type hitter, albeit, two years away.. In the interim, Senzel to the NYY’s for CF for this package would be a fair return.. helps the Reds not have Eugenio Suarez rush his return at 3B and gives the Reds a future relief pitcher… In the Reds band box of a stadium, even Clint Frazier may succeed.. he won’t in cleveland..
emac22
Lower velocity?
SMH
gson
Yes.. Lower Velocity on the fastball.. Danny Salazar, before his injury approached triple digits regularly (98 – 99).. Salazar is 6 foot and 190.. Little Deivi is 5’6 and maybe 170.. Quick arms and small bodies.. don’t last in the grind that is MLB as a starter.. so, yes.. the NYY’s should consider moving him to an RP role.. where he can throw as hard as he can for the one inning of work.. he might approach Salazar’s velo..
SM your H as much as you like..
hockeyjohn
Two DHs, one coming off a serious injury and the other that is not a team player is not going to come close to getting Lindor.
basquiat
“The team is not broke. The league is not broke. There’s money.”
Well, Lindor’s comments certainly belie the narrative from the Dolans for the last 20 years. The last time Lindor spoke about this, he mentioned something about the team spending money on the team to win. That’s a very clear message that he wants a title and the owner needs to build a team around Lindor. That’s a stretch. I don’t see Lindor staying with the Tribe.
sufferforsnakes
It all centers on the question of greed, from both perspectives.
rickoppelt
10/250-275. Everyone is happy. Let’s play baseball.
themaven
Are you holding the shotgun to Lindor’s head to make him sign it?
Cause that’s what it will take.
He’ll make that much in his last year of arbitration.
Lanidrac
It’d be interesting if it’s revealed that the Indians have been cutting payroll this offseason and last offseason despite having a wide-open contention window specifically so they can afford a Lindor extension. It wouldn’t be a smart move but still interesting.
themaven
They’re cutting payroll because revenue is down because attendance is down,despite having a winning team.
distractmyself
Cleveland’s revenue has doubled since 2000 and their payroll has increased by $12million. They could absolutely afford to sign Lindor for $300 million.
CKinSTL
According to Cot’s (40-man, year end, except 2020):
2000: $78mm
2001: $95mm
2002: $75mm
….
2017: $152mm
2018: $151mm
2019: $129mm
2020: Opening Day 40-man $105
You just as easily could have selected 2002 and 2018 and stated that their revenue and payroll both doubled.
cheesesteak
Cleveland is a blue-collar town. It takes a half weeks pay to take your family to the park. Most families can only afford to go twice a season.
SeaDogsForever
Pretty simple, really. If Lindor really wants to stay in Cleveland, would he be willing to sign for 10 years and 200 million? He will have the exact same house and cars and lifestyle whether he signs for 200 or 300 million. He won’t settle for that much less, of course. He’s not paying attention to the reality of the Cleveland franchise and its limitations. Players pressure each other to get the most they can as well so it’s not easy. The choice IS ultimately up to him though.