The Astros sent out some mixed messages about how much the club was willing to spend this offseason, though newly-hired general manager James Click told the Houston Chronicle’s Brian T. Smith (Twitter link) and other reporters that Astros owner Jim Crane didn’t put any restrictions on future expenditures, and gave the front office the go-ahead to spend if necessary.
Houston’s projected Competitive Balance Tax payroll sits at roughly $231.5MM (as per Roster Resource), a number that is already over the second penalty level of $228MM. Since the Astros have never before exceeded even the first luxury tax threshold, they will be taxed at the “first-timer” rate of 20% on every dollar spent above the $208MM threshold, as well as an additional 12% surtax for everything spent between the $228MM and $248MM. Using Roster Resource’s $231.5MM projection, the Astros currently face a tax bill of $5.1MM.
Such a relatively small sum should hardly be a major impediment to roster-building, as Crane said last fall that while he would ideally “prefer not to” pay any luxury tax bills, “we may win the World Series, so you never know.” A one-time overage might not be too much to swallow, especially since a lot of salary could come off the books after the 2020 season since George Springer, Michael Brantley, Yuli Gurriel, and Josh Reddick are all free agents. Looking even further ahead, Houston has only $42MM in committed payroll beyond the 2021 season
Of course, the major x-factor here is how the emotional calculus has changed for Crane now that his franchise has been implicated in one of the biggest controversies in baseball history. Given how Crane so clearly wishes to turn the page on the sign-stealing scandal, he might figure the best way to do so is by fielding another World Series contender in 2020, to “prove” that the Astros can win in an untainted fashion (though it will surely take more than a single year for the Astros to regain trust around the game).
With all of this in mind, it is somewhat difficult to view any potential Astros moves from a pure baseball perspective, not to mention the fact that Click might wait until he has actually settled into his new job before making any big transactions. In the short term, however, discussing contract extensions with Springer or any of the other pending free agents would seem like a logical step to take now that Spring Training is underway. In terms of new additions, Click could wait to spend until closer to the trade deadline, when he could more clearly access what final pieces might be required to put Houston over the top in a pennant race.
delete
I hope all the honest players boycott this team in free agency and stay far away
dman07
Money talks. I don’t see that happening. The key is the team moves on from this and nobody from this roster complains about crazy sign stealing tactics in 2021 or 2022.
delete
Free agents didn’t exactly flock to the Astros this off-season though despite the Astros needing to replace their ace, sign a catcher, and shore up that bullpen. All this despite no spending restrictions. Time will tell how long the stigma lasts
ColossusOfClout
It will last until their POS owner sells the team.
Strike Four
That is the nuclear option: players threaten to go on strike unless Crane sells the team.
BKS1110
They were trying to stay below the threshold, but were unable to move Josh Reddick and that pretty much torpedoed that idea. I think they were always going to make small moves. Click saying they have no restrictions now is a big change from the story the entire off-season in terms of their payroll. Still don’t expect anything big but they could use another reliever and a back-end starter.
looiebelongsinthehall
BS. Money will talk in 21 and 22 so why not have no restrictions right now since your already penalized with respect to draft picks? Build up through free agency and then sell for younger talent/prospects to ensure your farm system stays relatively strong. Then get under the cap to reset for 2023. That’s what I would try to do for the short term. This year every other fan base will hate them but the best way to shut everyone up is to win when under the highest scrutiny.
Vizionaire
who would trade for cheaters?
looiebelongsinthehall
You don’t think teams will give them a new start and for the most part, players will greet them favorably if they think they can help? It will be used as leverage during all negotiations but if Springer has a big year in 20, you don’t think a team in need won’t make a play for him?
802Ghost
If the players have a good year in 20, yes, they’ll prob be signed by another team. However, I hope they all have sucky years and it;’s shown that they’re not that good w/ out their favorite Rubbermaid.
scarfish
World Series flags fly forever. A cheating scandal goes away.
coachbrad
Even the stolen ones.
scarfish
I’d have to disagree on that. Look I’m not trumpeting the Astros horn here, but that team is nasty, trash cans notwithstanding. Bregman, springer, verlander, Greinke are elite players. The latter two guaranteed hall of fame. Always thought Correa was overrated though. Regardless, they can cheat or whatever all day. But that team is good.
coachbrad
They were good. Really good. Maybe good enough to win the World Series. But now we’ll never know.
Rudy Zolteck
They didn’t flock there because the Astros didn’t want to pay them but whatever fits your narrative, New Yorker lol
takeitback
Well, evidently the Yankees, Twins, Rays, Braves/White Sox, and Nationals will sign cheaters when they are free agents. Those are the teams that signed Cole, Marwin, Morton, Kuechel, and Will Harris.
And evidently the Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Mets will trade for Cheaters since those teams traded for Giles/Fisher, White, and JD Davis.
arc89
Nobody respects a fake world series flag. Only desperate Astro fans in denial will look at that flag and feel like a champ.
bleacherbum
Mets also picked up Marinsnick this offseason too.
yogineely
I’m sure shoeless joe and Pete Rose disagree with you
yogineely
Also because they didn’t want to spend money while they were being exposed as the cheaters they are
Rudy Zolteck
[citation needed] lol that doesn’t even make sense. Why would the PR have some effect on it
echozulu88
They clearly stated prior to the start of free agency that they weren’t going to spend money because of their projected payroll (so many articles on so many websites states that) so that probably stopped them from making bigger moves. Also, I’m sure there was some hesitation from the front office because of the unknown of the punishment and where it would hit. So I don’t think it was players avoiding them because of the scandal. They might not have taken less to play for Houston but money talks.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Hot-Air-o-lista!
Free agents didn’t flock to the Astros because the Astros weren’t spending any money this offseason!
Edenwald21
Oh yeah cause he’s such a star, all that cheating did him real good
Orbit
@vizionaire Well, the Yankees paid one a record deal, so I don’t think as many people care as much the media and fans make it out to be.
takeitback
@bleacherbum Thanks! I knew there were others I forgot.
stros1fan
The Dodgers just traded for a mega superstar cheater. The irony is rich with that trade.
Moneyballer
So no one boycotts?
Royalsfan12
Who are the honest players?
Strike Four
Tony Kemp.
Ejemp2006
Says Tony Kemp.
jdgoat
I know your an A’s fan and can’t look at this without bias, but if you’re including Kemp, you have to include Altuve and Reddick as well. There’s no way around that.
yogineely
Wrong, there is a graph with every trash can bang. Kemp is at 0% the others are not, therefore they are cheaters.
LH
Kemp is the only one with any semblance of proof. 0 bangs in 17. Altuve does have a relatively low number of bangs but my theory is that he only used it in certain situations (like everyone knows he did with the buzzer in ‘19). According to Correa, josh reddick, but he also hit .314 that year so… similar to the outlier years put together by Marwin and Correa himself. Correa easily is my least favorite player after this weekend.
Rudy Zolteck
Yeah because he really needed a buzzer to hit a hanging slider over (Minute Maid) left field, got it chief
LH
Oh so you think he went up to the dish banking on getting a “hanging” slider from Aroldis Chapman? Got it, chief 😉
Rudy Zolteck
Not what I said lol, but I did mean that he could infer reasonably that he would get a slider because of the way Reddick whiffed on three of them in the five pitches he saw, Springer walking on fastballs (Chapman struggled with this in earlier games too), and then Aroldis generally throwing 40% sliders with two strikes in 2019, his highest percentage of his career. I think it’s overblown that one of the game’s best hitters had to rely on pure magic to think a slider was coming. That is Yankee fan nonsense, honestly.
yogineely
Obviously he did
echozulu88
Please provide the clear evidence for proof of a 2019 buzzer that MLB couldn’t find. A man not wanting his jerseys ripped off is not clear evidence regardless of past cheating. I am not an Astros fan and my team got screwed by them but using that as “proof” is weak and isn’t credible. Having a visual, clear as day wire seeing through it or poking out. Or a confession from an actual player or personnel on that 2019 team would be.
echozulu88
So you’re saying anytime a pitcher hangs a slider and the batter takes him yard he’s cheating? Even with the cheating the Astros did , those guys are still major league players and if a pitcher makes a mistake they will still usually make them pay. Especially if you hang a slower pitch in the strike zone.
LH
To be honest, i dont rely on MLBs investigation.
echozulu88
Okay so you please provide clear evidence such a reliable witness, audio recordings or photographic evidence of a buzzer on a player. Again, a guy not wanting a jersey ripped off it not credible evidence.
MoRivera 1999
You Know what this is called…
If it’s so easy for Altuve to hit that homer, how come it was the first an Astro ever hit of Chapman? And in that situation… Riiight!
goastros123
Mo4ever, like I told you before: if you pull up a video of the home run and freeze it when they show where the slider was on the plate via replay, then pull up a chart of Atuve’s hot zones, you’ll see the slider was in a part of the plate he likes. Chapman should’ve walked Altuve. Go ask Stephen A Smith about the slider and he’ll tell you it was a dumb decision on Chapman’s part. He also thinks the championship should be taken away so you know he’s not an Astros, and yet he still thinks the slider was just a mistake. Mistakes happen.
Rudy Zolteck
“It’s the first time” is not a good argument if the Astros have only faced Aroldis for three seasons lol you’re acting like he has been shutting them down his whole career. And even then that’s not a good argument because things happen. Even Mariano made mistakes, no? You sound dumbfounded that a good closer could make mistakes in big-time situations.
goastros123
The fact that it was the first time only illsustrates how no one is exempt from making mistakes.
its_happening
Maybe Aroldis shouldn’t have hung a slider two pitches in a row. Maybe mix in a 99 mph. Never hang two breaking balls in a row to a good hitter. Chapman did.
LH
His behavior after the home run was so out of the ordinary, however, that i think it is fair for individuals such as myself, with no influence, to think that he’s lying. Why does it matter so much that I don’t believe it?
takeitback
Because you sound like a clown.
There is zero proof. There is no witness to him using a buzzer. And this is America, where you are innocent until proven guilty. Just because something happened in 2017 doesn’t mean it happened in 2019. You can jump to those conclusions if you want, but that’s not how the real world works.
It also takes away from what the Astros actually did accomplish in 2019 without cheating. I know you probably don’t want to admit that they beat your team fairly because it makes sleeping at night much easier if you can make an excuse. But that’s doesn’t make it real.
The real reason that it makes you look like a clown though, is because literally no one came forward and said that the Astros were using buzzers. No one. That includes all the players that have since left the organization and have nothing to lose by admitting that certain guys used buzzers. Even Mike Fiers didn’t say that they were using buzzers. So when he was interviewed by MLB he even said there is nothing there. The guy that brought this to light and wants to see the Astros punished, said there weren’t any buzzers. Think about that for a minute. Cole, Morton, Kuechel are all pitchers in the AL for other teams now. Don’t you think they would come forward and admit that batters were using buzzers if they actually were? Why would they lie just to risk having to face those same hitters using buzzers? It makes no sense.
LH
I never once said they should be punished for the buzzers. I just said that I believe they were using buzzers. Because Altuve did not behave in a normal fashion, and because players on other teams I have said that they heard that they were using them. Also, many with an MLB told the nationals before the World Series that they had to be ready for Houston to cheat. I definitely believe the rest of the league more than the Astros. That simple. I’m a Nats fan, the one team that looks the best out of this whole thing, but more than that I’m a baseball fan and I’m furious that the Astros cheated for what I, many players, and many fans believe was 3 seasons. This isn’t a court of law. Its a court of public opinion, and I don’t have a very high opinion of Bregman, Crane, Luhnow, Altuve, Hinch, Marwin, Springer, beltran, and more. Also want to say that after reading Bauer’s piece in the tribune, I think Gerrit Cole and Justin Verlander, along with the ENTIRE pitching staff was cheating, so yeah I do think those pitchers would lie.
stros1fan
twitter.com/KEOspeedwagon/status/12295119393799413…
dodgerblue88
I’m really curious how these Astros hitters will be valued in free agency. If any of this will give other teams pause as to what stats they can trust, and that’s totally discounting concerns over character issues.
The fact there were no high-level Astro hitters on the market this year might make it a moot point. Now other teams will still have a full season to see what they can do while presumably clean and get a better idea on valuation. Still it might murky up the waters some.
looiebelongsinthehall
This coming year will be important to Springer in particular.
DarkSide830
“character issues.” so, what, every player they employed over those years has those “issues?”
34679
If you’re riding around in a car, the driver stops to rob a liquor store, lets you drink some free booze, and you don’t say anything until after he gets caught, then yes, you have character issues too.
jdgoat
That’s a terrible comparison though. How many major leaguers across baseball do you think would have completely stopped this had they came up through the Astros system or been traded there? Maybe a dozen?
yogineely
Tony kemp refused to partake as a rookie
Rudy Zolteck
Didn’t the Dodgers just give up Verdugo for Betts? Clearly it’s not affecting teams that much. Yankees even picked up Cole despite these apparent issues with character. Same with Rangers and Chirinos.
takeitback
@dodgerblue They were clean in 2019. So you have already seen what they can do without cheating.
teufelshunde4
LMAO if anyone believes, they stopped cheating after winning a WS cheating. They would have evolved the process.
Hinch wouldn’t say there were no buzzers, Manfred wouldn’t say there were no buzzers. Despite Manfred & FO claim that it was player driven, the WSJ article destroys that assertion. Altuve ALCS jersey thing..
Players were talking about buzzers before the scandal broke.
Its gonna come out.. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually it will come out.
Rudy Zolteck
Ok buddy. Why would a buzzer even matter though if they weren’t stealing signs? The league already said they weren’t whistling, which would imply they checked how the Astros got signs. The reports even said no later than 2018 was when they retired “dark arts” or whatever. And there were rules on live feeds after 17 anyway.
echozulu88
The Altuve Jersey thing is not credible at all. If a player/staff member on that team comes out and says yes we did that like Fiers did for 2017. Then I’ll believe it or if there is some sort of easily verifiable proof like the audio of the trash can banging. I’m not an Astros fan but some of this stuff has taken a mind of its own without any legitimate evidence.
stros1fan
It’s not coming out because it didn’t happen. MLB put all in stadium camera feeds, except the video replay room, on an 8 second delay starting in the 2018 postseason. They had placed a representative in every video replay room. How would anyone be able to relay signals in real time on an 8 second delay. Also, in regards to Altuve’s walkoff HR against Chapman…
twitter.com/KEOspeedwagon/status/12295119393799413…
DarkSide830
they were punished, so they probably aren’t going to do this again. this is the same as the Dusty hiring – the past is the past.
Vladguerrerojr20
Gms should run up their price tags in free agency then say they failed a physical and refuse to sign them. These guys showed no respect for the game, fans, players or other organizations, why should they be respected with new contracts and fresh starts with new organizations. Play the rest of your career where the trash cans bang,
RempT
I was hoping that at least one Astro from 2017 would take responsibility, set his WS ring on the table, and get back to work to win it fairly. Wouldn’t that be awesome to see!
yogineely
Nah, they have no back bone. All a bunch of weaklings
Kewldood69
TRASHstros!
puhl
Ha! The ironic thing is that when Springer and others become free agents, all of these fan bases trashing them would take them in a damn second. You can deny it all you want, but if any one of these great players were in your lineup, you’d forget about the cheating so fast it would make your head spin!
delete
I can only speak for myself but I would be pretty furious if my team signed any of these cheaters. I don’t know how Dodgers fans are ok with their team going and getting Betts after he successfully stole a world series and MVP award with the help of cheating in 2018
looiebelongsinthehall
Stop trolling. Not sure how your name is pronounced but BS sounds about right. Regardless of what is or is not found, your attack is premature since so little has been leaked.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
Lmao how furious are you at your Yankees for getting Cole?
No, not at all?
That’s Hot-Air-o-lista for you ladies and gentleman. It’s all an absolute disgrace until it benefits my sweet sweet Yankees!
BKS1110
It’s already happened. Cole was on the 2018 and 2019 teams, which according to everyone on Twitter definitely happened. But you won’t find a single Yankees fan complaining about signing a supposed cheater. All the self-righteous pearl clutching goes out the window in a heartbeat when they’re suddenly on your team it seems.
coupofthecentury
preach brother
shawn hemp
It’s different with pitchers. Cole lead league in era and strikeouts which were affected minimally by the cheating besides be able to attack batters knowing the astros could cheat and get u more runs if u needed it. Gerrit cole didn’t snitch either so I got love for him even tho I wanna know what they did. He stayed true to not being tattletail so he deserves credit for that
looiebelongsinthehall
I still say make them give back their rings on national TV. Imagine MLB taking Coles on a Sunday night against Boston? To those that say pitchers didn’t benefit, that’s not true as it’s easier to pitch up 5-1 instead of being tied or even trailing.
looiebelongsinthehall
*Coles’
shawn hemp
I literally said that bud. Read before u respond
shawn hemp
I said it affects astros pitchers minimally. Def not as big an advantage as it was for the hitters. And if u wanna argue that them I don’t got time for ya.
looiebelongsinthehall
By not trying to stop it, he was part of it. Did you ever hear a lie of omission? This was team cheating plains simple. Much easier to pitch with a lead. Coles was a monster but everyone’s stats were distorted one way or another.
Rsox
Cole doesn’t have a ring, joined the Astros after the ’17 World Series
looiebelongsinthehall
LOL. Thank you Rsox. My bad.
LH
Read Trevor Bauer’s piece in the Athletic. Pretty clear what the astros are doing with their pitchers.
LH
Excuse me. Bauer’s piece is in the player’s tribune.
yogineely
I’m sure his new teammates have a different thought on that.
puhl
Bauer is an idiot who lives to hears himself talk. He probably smells his own farts. What he really needs to do is focus on pitching better.
MoRivera 1999
Cole was not on the ’17 team. No ring to give back. Strictly pragmatically, I’m not concerned about the impact of sign stealing on his performance indicators. I think it would be pretty minimal on his stats except maybe for wins and slightly on his ERA. I’m more concerned about 1) the fact he did not speak out and 2) whether or not he used tar, as Bauer has accused.
stros1fan
Cole wasn’t on the 2017 Astros.
shawn hemp
If their numbers dip I won’t. At one time these dudes were average at best. Altuve was a .270 hitter with single digit homeruns. Springer hit in .240 and was leading the league in Ks and hitting 24 homeruns. Was it hard work or was it cheating. We about to find out
Ejemp2006
Correa has a multitude of health issues. Altuve’s knees are already bad. Springer has a bad back. The staff is old.
This window for this Astros core will close after this year.
Rudy Zolteck
This is usually what a really concerned fan sounds like when talking about teams he doesn’t like every year. They are still really good man, you could at least give them credit.
Rudy Zolteck
It’s called “being a rookie” shawn sorry no one is up to your rigorous standards of play haha. Was Khris Davis cheating when he blew up? Chapman? Olson? Semien? Do guys only improve by cheating? Such a weak assertion.
takeitback
@ShawnHemp this is a ridiculous take. Altuve has never been a .270 hitter. He hit .341, .313. and .338 from 2014-2016 while leading the league in hits. He also had 15 HR in 2015 and 24 in 2016.
Springer hit .276 w/ 16 HR in 2015, and .261 w/ 29 HR in 2016.
Both were very good hitters before 2017, and both were very good hitters in 2019 when it was proven they weren’t cheating. Try again.
arc89
Khris Davis was injured last year. If you knew what you were talking about you would know that when he was injured playing the outfield his numbers were right online to his average. years. Olson broke a bone in his hand and missed ST and the first 8 weeks. still hit 36 home runs in less than 500 AB. Chapman also was injured through out the season. Still played through out the injuries. Using A’s players as example shows you didn’t watch last year’s games.
Rudy Zolteck
I meant their progression year to year, obviously they were good hitters going into last year. And I used the A’s because shawn was threatening dudes about coming to the Coliseum and then had a tantrum when we joked that no one goes there. I respect the A’s and was pointing out that they got better over their careers and it’s not necessarily because of cheating that someone gets better.
bobby clementhay
shawn hemp, Jose Altuve hit 39 HR’s during the 2015 and 2016 seasons with a lifetime Batting Average of .315. Try checking the facts one time maybe…
arc89
Altuve power numbers had a big increase which is a red flag. No way a guy his size hits that many home runs without some type of cheating. Its either steroids or sign stealing. MLB made it way worse on the Astros by letting them off easy. They should be not allowed to be in the playoffs this year. No post season would send a big message to the team and their players. The problem is many in the Astros organization has 0 remorse for cheating and now acting like they are the victim.
yogineely
Proven, hahahahaha
yogineely
Yeah probably cause he was cheating
Rudy Zolteck
… because no other guy in the MLB has seen his power numbers go up in the last few years. Riiiiiiight.
BobbyDynamite
“No way a guy his size hits that many home runs without some type of cheating. ”
Yeah, I’m sure Altuve doesn’t know where to find the weight room at Minute Maid Park.
arc89
Intimidation is when you steal from somebody but the authorities do nothing and say go ahead do it again. Astro will go down in baseball history as never winning a championship with honors.
Rudy Zolteck
This is a “nuh-uh no you didn’t” argument that I would expect from 10 year olds but not MLBTR grandpas. They won a championship, and stole some signs. You can invalidate and shame them all you want but they did receive a punishment. They showed everyone in 2019 that the cheating clearly didn’t do a lot for them.
arc89
Just keep telling yourself that. They won because of cheating. Last year they cheated too. It was not just 2017. So you believe it worked in 2017 but they stop after that. The punishment did not fit the crime. $5 million to a billionaire is like you losing $20. I bet every team in MLB would take that punishment for a world series. Team were catching onto Astros by 2019. Over a dozen knew Astros were stealing signs. MLB ignored many request by teams to look into it.
Rudy Zolteck
Ok so they knew about it, none of them ever started doing it themselves, and then Cora and Beltran went to other teams after their tenure and likewise stopped? Even after Beltran told them their sign-stealing was “behind” when he came over from NYY? What does that mean to you then? Are the other major leaguers like Logan Morrison and Joe Musgrove lying then? If so, what do they gain from it?
“Just keep telling yourself that” lol
shawn hemp
Exactly. Altuve power numbers blew up after 2017. He also he below .300 for 2 years and was in the .310 range with homeruns in the teens. After 2017 he was in the .340s with home runs in the high 20s. Springer lead league in strikeouts per AB before 2017. Whil hitting in the low .260s. After he hit me in the .290s. Guys make those kinds of jumps all the time but it’s suspicious when u add in the sign stealing information we all know is true
shawn hemp
If u think they didn’t cheat in 2019 then I got some land in Chernobyl to sell you. It has no nuclear activity on it. And u know that’s true cause I said so and u seem to believe everything u hear
Rudy Zolteck
Dang bro got the whole squad laughing. Feel free to answer anything I said instead of “believing everything u hear” then, or just punch me instead lol since you really like doing that. Again, dudes are allowed to get better at baseball after their rookie year. More guys are hitting more homers. Such a weak argument.
shawn hemp
U said that in my original statement d!pshit. And we all know you ain’t got no squad. You at the lunch table by yourself line Steven glansburg
shawn hemp
I said that*
Rudy Zolteck
Honestly I really enjoyed that reference
takeitback
@ShawnHemp you are an idiot. Altuve hit .338 in 2014 and .341 with 24 HR in 2016. And yes he hit 30+ HR in 2019, but who didn’t with the juiced baseballs?
As for 2019, I don’t think they cheated. Why? Because the MLB has already proven that they didn’t. Again, why would guys that have since left the organization all tell the same story when they now have to face these guys. It makes no logical sense at all for Morton, Kuechel, Cole, Harris, Sipp, etc to lie about what the Astros hitters did in 2018 and 2019.
You also fail to realize that the MLB has already said they placed MLB staff in the replay rooms to ensure that teams weren’t cheating during the playoffs. So that alone makes the Altuve buzzer theory seem even more dumb.
Ironman_4life
Unfortunately your right. The Dodgers would love to have Altuve/Bregman.
yogineely
Don’t want either of those midgets
Rudy Zolteck
You are the saltiest dude in this thread lol you better be at least 6’1 if you’re going to stoop as low as just making height attacks because your team lost to the Astros. This is getting ridiculous haha
arc89
So explain his rise in home run power. Now go back and read his prospect review. There is one thing if a player always had raw power they can gain it in ML. If a player never had raw power but all of a sudden puts up power numbers out of nowhere is a red flag. Brady Anderson for example: Could be a legit hitter but has no power at all. he would be lucky to hit a ball to the warning track. After steroids he hit 50 home runs. This is a baseball America quote on his lack of power. first 7 years he only hit 11 home runs once. Never any double figures in home runs. His strike out numbers remained the same even after hitting 31 last year. Most home run increases will have a big increase of strike out too.
Rudy Zolteck
You’re ignoring that baseball as a whole has been seeing more home runs, and you’re trying to narrow down this scope to blame a single guy for cheating. He had 24 in 2016. His trend lines up pretty well with generally increasing home run numbers around the league. There are several guys who find power strokes. If this is your standard of evidence then you should be going after the Yankees with Tauchman, Ford, Voit, and Urshela all breaking out even more drastically without the track record of good hitting skills. Again, your standard of evidence is weak here. Even if Altuve’s power sucked, he is “allowed” to hit a homer off Chapman. It’s not inconceivable.
goastros123
Explain Joe Morgan’s increase in home runs while playing for the Reds. Explain how Jimmy Wynn could hit 25+ home runs in the Astrodome, despite only being 5’10 (taller than Altuve but still short and a great example when you consider what ballpark he played in). After all, no way a guy his size should be able to do that. Explain Jose Ramirez’s rise in power for a man his size.
arc89
Did you notice how his strike outs increased with his home run production? To hit a home run you need to guess on that pitch. Wynn struck out 148 times one season. that is why everyone knows Altuve was not guessing he knew exactly what pitch was coming to him. A home run is guessing correctly on a pitch. A small built person would need to wind up and guess the pitch.
goastros123
No one is saying Altuve didn’t benefit. I’m simply pointing out that looking specifically at his home run numbers is not a good idea, since he’s not the only small player to see an increase in home runs nor be able to hit more runs than you would expect of a player his size.
arc89
Its going to be up to Altuve to show he did not benefit from sign stealing. If he doesn’t even come close to his numbers from last year he will look like a cheat. nobody can say pressure got to him because he performed in the world series. Any less than 30 home runs will make him look like a cheat.
Rudy Zolteck
Dang, didn’t know you were the Jabba the Hutt of baseball and we’re all just paying tribute to you hahaha he’ll do however well he does and you’ll just keep watching, dude.
stros1fan
Are you fine with Mookie Betts being on the Dodgers? I would encourage you to compare his 2018 stats to every other year he’s been in the league. His wRC+ hasn’t come within 45 points of his 2018 season. That is EXTREMELY suspicious.
jonesadoug
CHEATERS
Moneyballer
Major League Baseball is making a monumental mistake by allowing the Astros to keep their 2017 tainted title.
looiebelongsinthehall
Title means less to the players than their rings which represent winning, have a large monetary value and look impressive when worn.
BuyBuyMets
Rings could be exactly replicated at a later date and still be given to the players, even if on the sly.
You can’t really replicate a WS trophy- if the league takes that you couldn’t still openly display a cooy.
DarkSide830
Manfred is right – its really rings hollow. what happened happened. i do think they should take their prize money though.
jtm2889
The media and fan reaction to this scandal is perplexing to say the least. I can’t believe people are this outraged at the Astros, and that the media (even MLBtraderumors!) are just here to fuel it all! What is the difference between sign-stealing from 2nd base, sign-stealing using the replay monitor, sign-stealing using Apple watches, and sign-stealing using a CF camera and banging on trash cans or whistling?!? It’s truly an asinine controversy and even crazier media/fan reaction.
delete
@jtm2889 Did you just emerge from your cave and find out about this without reading anything at all? The difference is that using technology and providing real-time intelligence from outside sources as to exactly what pitch and location are coming is explicitly illegal.
newtzb0ss
Because they feel that the cameras are “more instant” than traditional sign stealing or using the apple watches which is ridiculous. It’s also ridiculous that everyone refuses to believe that other teams havent tried something similar when the ringleaders (beltran and cora)have been on other teams before and after the Astros. the Yankees and red sox are just as dirty.
Manfredsajoke
Beltran picked this cheating up as a Yankee. Yankees have long ties to cheating. Can you say PED?
delete
@Manfredsajoke Beltran was on the Yankees in 2015. This conduct became illegal in 2016/2017 you imbecile
shawn hemp
Regardless of when he with the Yankees. It’s not like what Beltran says goes. Teams and leaders can say F no we ain’t banging on trash cans to relay information to the hitter gtfoh. I havent seen one video when yankees are AB and could hear any trash cans banging. But have seen literally hours of that footage when astros are AB. Keep pointing that finger elsewhere and deflecting just like the mf astros players their fans are delusional
looiebelongsinthehall
Also an advisor in 19. Anyone really believe the league found nothing this year when they cleared the Yankees? When you don’t look, the odds of finding is very little.
ifyouaintcheatingyouainttrying
When Beltran came to the Astros in 2017, he told them that their sign stealing techniques were outdated. That’s a fact. He didn’t learn that from the Astros
shawn hemp
I think like every team they probably have a camera on the catcher. I don’t think they were relay that info real time to hitters using a trash can. Only video of astros doing that.They mighta been wearing buzzers as well for all I know tbh. I know no one complained to the commish about the Yankees and that the Yankees were one of the teams that filed a complaint with the commissioner so I would think they wouldn’t be dumb enough to file a complaint while doing the exact same thing but he’ll idk anymore
ifyouaintcheatingyouainttrying
Cora as the Red Sox manager also said in 2018 that the Yankees best offseason acquisition wasn’t signing anybody on the field but it was signing Beltran to their front office.
shawn hemp
I’ve always thought teams would sit someone in center with binoculars and have them hold up something like a sign or something if they got a good look at what pitch it was which is low tech but affective. I mean it’s as easy as that.
looiebelongsinthehall
Red Sox did complain about the Yankees in 17 and everyone thought it was retaliation which it might have been but who actually knows?
its_happening
Why are we just talking about Beltran? Chris Young already admitted the Apple Watch was his idea in New York as a Yankee and brought it to Boston. Yankee fans neglecting this fact like they forget blowing a 3-0 series lead in 2004.
Yankees are getting a pass on this. People who are outraged over Houston players receiving a pass should also be outraged the Yankees are skating on this.
goastros123
Wereallguestshere, Yankees fans better hope there’s not more to it than that. If Yankees get caught doing something or some one speaks out against them, it’ll bad news for baseball and it’s most historical franchise.
Rudy Zolteck
Except he was also on the Yankees in 16 and returned to them as an advisor in 19. And even if it wasn’t explicitly against the rules, wouldn’t you agree that it violates the spirit of the game the same way PEDs did before they were tested? If your only standard for getting mad at a team’s conduct is breaking the rules that’s a piss-poor way of assessing these situations. You technically wouldn’t have a right to get mad at every phony press conference they hold even though it spits in the face of baseball ethics.
shawn hemp
Knowing what pitch is coming helps you a lot more than being strong. I love that argument.
stros1fan
It became illegal in 2001. MLB just never really enforced it. Be careful with the name calling if you don’t have the facts right.
looiebelongsinthehall
Simply because teams were warned in 2017. The commish’s response that the letters were sent to management who didn’t pass the information on is as stupid as Correa’s recent defense of Altuve.
stros1fan
So far, everything Correa said about Altuve has been correct, including the tattoo. There is video evidence Altuve had a tattoo during the 2019 ALCS.
kershawsgrandma22
You sound like a stand up guy. Those fans must be crazy for being upset that their teams were eliminated by cheaters! Insane!
newtzb0ss
Everyone cheats in some way. so therefore everyone should be upset about being eliminated by cheaters constantly. Keep living in a fantasy world, “Oh but I can only see the Astros cheating”
delete
“The Astros should be allowed to do whatever they want because I have vague suspicions and a thick head”
looiebelongsinthehall
It feels different this time and it might be because of how big fantasy and State gambling has become.
Rudy Zolteck
He didn’t say the other teams were guilty, he said (correctly) that there’s good reason to investigate, beisbol. Obviously you don’t want to come to grips with that when your team rode juice to multiple titles already and your team’s owner literally got banned for a bit because of his antics
arc89
you should be mad at MLB for letting the astros off without much of a punishment. Blaming the media for it shows you are only mad at being caught. let me guess you will blame Fiers for speaking out and boo him. Instead of praising him for speaking out. watch when the Astros play a home game against Oakland and you get angry a whistle blower is pitching against a bunch of cheaters.
BobbyDynamite
YOu have to admit, the media has been horribly reckless and obfuscating in its coverage of the Astros scandal. True, the Astros broke a rule and deserve to be punished, but selective and exaggerated reporting on violations of same rule has led the current fecal-storm.
Passan, Ravech, and several others have made a mockery of the sports journalism profession and they’ve found thousands of willing stooges ready to slurp down their journalistic slop.
richard dangler
The Astros should not apologize but rather double down. Every time some dumb reporter wants to bring it up, they should show them their Ring. If the White Sox don’t win the World Series then I’m rooting for the Astros. Watching all the the dumb people stomp their feet while having their temper tantrums is comical at this point.
delete
Don’t worry, the White Sox won’t win the World Series
kershawsgrandma22
Your a terrible fan
newtzb0ss
it is quite entertaining to see people point fingers and cry wolf while their team no doubt isnt clean either. it’s a baseball problem and people need to stop using one season by one team as a scapegoat.
sithdude
That’s speculation and a false narrative. Show facts as there is against the Astros. The Astros aren’t scapegoats or victims like some of them are being smug about. What they did was despicable and unfortunately they, the players involved, are getting away with it.
looiebelongsinthehall
MLB should announce a 30 day amnesty program like municipalities sometimes do where they waive penalties and interest on fines to get tickets paid or on library books to get them back but then make it clear if not now, in the next CBA that cheaters will be banned, be it PEDs, corked bats (do they still do that?) or any form of cheating. Agree each year on an arb panel of retired judges who have no ties to the union or the league from a national arbitration and mediation company who will decide based on the evidence. When agreed to contractually, the decision is final and very hard to appeal from.
stros1fan
Where’s the facts the Astros cheated in 2019? Yet a large majority of fans are using fake buzzer stories and creases in uniforms as evidence. There is more circumstantial evidence against the 2018 Red Sox or even the Yankees when Beltran was there than there is with the 2019 Astros.
Strike Four
people like you need to be flung into the sun
Sideline Redwine
Take a pill, it’s baseball.
And you just made his point for him, congratulations.
ifyouaintcheatingyouainttrying
I would love it if the Astros players would have their own personal trash cans in the dugout banging on it every single pitch. That would be epic
DodgerDan
Just spend the money on some more trash cans and it will get you another World Series.
Strike Four
All free agents should avoid that franchise like the plague if they know whats good for them.
goastros123
Good thing they don’t go by what you think.
stan lee the manly
I would absolutely love it if the other 29 teams banded together to make a statement and outright forfeited every single game played against the Astros. Just don’t even show up to the park. Imagine the lost revenue when people stop buying tickets when they realize the games won’t be played. The Astros players could all have a nice long season to think about what they did without the games getting in the way.
delete
The Astros would probably still go out there and flip their bats and make cringy poses at the camera in the dugout. They only care about getting the wins. They would probably feel completely goated if they won all games by forfeit
DarkSide830
you know these are 20-40 year old dudes and not high schoolers right? just because they stole signs doesnt mean they are babies.
AllinTX
29? I’m pretty sure you’re forgetting about another team. Unless you’re their fan.
AllinTX
29? I’m pretty sure you’re forgetting about another team. Unless you’re their fan.
retire21
Umm…the Asterisks are the 30th team.
LH
Deciding whether to call them the trashtro’s or asterisks for the rest of my life is a surprisingly difficult decision. Either way I’ll never like them or anyome who was on any of their recent teams since i simply don’t believe they stopped cheating. Especially Carlos Correa.
takeitback
I think he means the Red Sox
sambino
@retire21 they can also be called the Crapstros
ronnsnow
Ya, forfeiting and giving the Astros free wins sure is a great way to make a statement.
newtzb0ss
Cant wait till the Red Sox Investigation finds that they were just as dirty as the Astros, itll open the floodgates and show just how bad of a problem the cheating is, it’s not just an Astros or Red sox problem.
delete
As disgusted as I am with the Red Sox cheating, it has already been reported that their cheating was not anywhere near the magnitude of the Astros. Are you paying attention at all or do you just make the same comment over and over without reading anything?
looiebelongsinthehall
Why post out of both sides of your mouth BS? Ten minutes after posting the Sox’ cheating was minimal, you write that Mookie stole a championship and MVP,
looiebelongsinthehall
Actually two minutes.
delete
@looie Who said anything was minimal? It certainly wasn’t me. I compared their reported conduct to the Astros and said it represents a lot less. Given that the Astros cheating scandal is the worst one in history, I would urge you not to take the comparison to the Red Sox too far lol. I did not say minimal I can promise you that. Teams that cheat together should have their titles and awards stripped together.
looiebelongsinthehall
I interpreted your comparison of the two clubs that way and if that wasn’t your intent, fine but everyone should still wait for the results to be revealed before speculating. My issue with my own club is after 17 and the letter, they should have stopped Things cold and assume there was no gray area. Safer to ask MLB first. If it looks and quacks like a duck, it probably is. I’m hoping the investigation was mainly because Cora was the manager. After the 17 report, they had no choice but to investigate whichever team he left for. The fact that Boston had their best season ever only magnified the need for a complete investigation.
looiebelongsinthehall
From what Sox players have been saying, not much is going to be revealed. They may have done nothing or it could also be they’ve been told nothing will be revealed as the league wants to get this over with. My gut tells me it doesn’t compare to Houston. I say this because they should realize the truth eventually comes out and players like Joe Kelly, Mookie and Price are now with the Dodgers. On a plane with alcohol flowing freely, someone will spill the beans if there are any to spill.
8
Lets make the best analytics department better with this money. Spend it on 4k monitors, jerseys with buzzer stitched in and hidden and lots of trash cans .
ForestCobraAL
“Astros owner Jim Crane didn’t put any restrictions on future expenditures,”
Funny how there is no restriction on spending on any GM and they all just choose not to sign front line talents.
I think Pittsburgh is the only franchise that has not put out this propaganda line. I guess with a payroll that looks like Gerrit Cole’s salary that was just a bit too much for them to try.
Rallyshirt
Wait, so all this crap about Astro players and it’s time to hand out extensions? I mean, goddammit.
timpa
First game at Houston the opposing catcher should walk to the mound for every pitch and not put signs down and tell the Ump “You gonna guarantee there isn’t a new cheating system in place?”
retire21
That would be awesome.
Rsox
With very little in the way of contrition or even remotely believable remorse I do wonder how some of these players will fair on the open market next winter. Will teams be lining up for the chance to give George Springer a big money contract, or do the Astros have all the negotiating leverage in the world on these guys?.
pinballwizard1969
Three factors the writer of the article doesn’t take into consideration when talking about the Astros spending for 2020 is:
1) As far as Free Agents go there isn’t any quality/elite FA’s still out there, they have all been gobbled up by other teams.
2) As for trading for an elite player. I can imagine most if not all of the other teams GM’s or Owners are going to be very reluctant to help the cheating Astros get better.
3) Even if there are some players other teams are willing to trade there is going to be plenty of competition for those players at the deadline from other teams.
tigerdoc616
Mostly on point, though I am sure any GM in the league will be willing to trade with Houston if the price is right. That price will be high, the Astros will have to overpay if they want to use trades to improve their club.
pinballwizard1969
I agree IF they do find a trading partner they will have to overpay. I think though you can immediately eliminate several teams as trading partners: Dodgers, Yankees, A’s, Angels, Nats for sure. Most likely the White Sox, Rays and Reds won’t be inclined to help the Astros. That really leaves the non-contenders and they are probably going to really want the Astros to overpay big time.
stros1fan
This is a ridiculous assertion. These GMs have MBAs or other advanced degrees from high level education institutions. They are not about to commit GM malfeasance by eliminating a team from a possible trade. Their only obligation is to the team they oversee and if the Astros offered them a trade package they feel is better than any other trade offer they will accept it. You’re acting like these GMs are 5th graders holding a grudge.
shortytallz
The Trashstros are cancelled
jmaverik
Love all these stupid comments. If you think the Astros were the only team using video to transmit signs, you are either naive or stupid. Astros were caught so they will take the brunt of the criticism, but clearly Beltran brought it from the Yankees. I hope the Astros go all the way his year to shut up the hypocrites.
ronnsnow
You must be an Astros fan.
jmaverik
I am,for over 50 years, and most of those we have been treated like a red headed step child by MLB. The lack of draft picks will hurt us but we will survive. We have in the past and will in the future.
Android Dawesome
If other teams cheated, lets see the proof. Get it all out in the open. That’s the only way you move on. I don’t get the mentality that you just ignore it. And if you are bothered by the jokes, get over it. Welcome to the internet.
jmaverik
Kind of hard to get the proof when MLB won’t even conduct the investigation. When a player comes out and says he has first hand knowledge and MLB refuses to conduct an investigation, it pretty much indicates the fix is in.
spinach
Lack of spending shows just how sleezy this ownership is.
While we all scoff at the penalties, losing both top picks for consecutive years will cripple this team for a number of years; after the next couple of years the Astros will have no chance to compete for a title for a number of years.
The fact that the owner, knowing that, didn’t spend aggressively this offseason to try to maximize their odds of winnings is pretty damning. He will cheat tolerate nasty cheating but not Steinbrenner spending for a couple of years. Really really pathetic, feel sorry for Houston fans.
diller1340
If I was a player in the league I would continue to cheat anyway I could to help out my personal numbers which helps the $$$$ in my pocket because I know I won’t be punished and maybe just my gm gets fired and who knows maybe I get a ring in the process
Darkside
If you can’t get a hold of your lawyer today, check on this site, he or she is probably busy defending the Astros.
I am sure the Astros found it cheaper to spend money on a cheating system than paying out top dollar for players like Keuchel and Morton.
jmaverik
Maybe you are a Yankee fan where money isn’t a concern, but smaller market teams have constraints on spending.
Rudy Zolteck
The article even tells you that they said over and over that they didn’t want to cross into worse luxury tax brackets. Is reading that much of an obstacle dude lol
HartnellDown
The trash can budget has gone up too. I hear there will be a trash ban bobble head night too. That’s all I got.
JoeBrady
The NYY Staten Island affiliate is having a miniature trash can night.
tigerdoc616
Spending money is the least of his worries right now. He’s a billionaire, so a few millions in luxury tax won’t hurt him. Plus at this point, there isn’t much left on the market to spend on.
coachbrad
I’m interested in seeing how the umpires police cheaters that got away with it under their noses. Extra wide strike zones, no benefit of the doubt on close calls, really short leashes for talking back…
jmaverik
So your solution is that the umpires should cheat for the Astros opponents – classy. And you are critical of the Astro organization? Hypocrite!!
coachbrad
Didn’t say they should. Said I was interested in seeing.
yogineely
Whoa, that guy is so out of line
BobbyDynamite
thankfully, umpires are much more well-informed than fans are about the league-wide nature of what the Astros were doing in 2017.
Umpires get graded on the accuracy of their ball/strike calling and are subject to replay review on many other types of calls, and they won’t trash their reputations by letting the corrupt sports media whip them into a bloodthirsty “Orange Team Bad” frenzy… the way some less discerning fans have allowed themselves to be.
robertp
Any owner whining about being $5.1 million over the luxury tax line should lose their team. Baseball Teams are not regular businesses. They are billionaire’s play toys. Considering how difficult it is to get into these clubs, there should be a requirement that every team is going for it with a minimum team salary floor. If you’re making cuts because you’re worried about profits or are cheap because you are worried about $5 million, then apparently you aren’t rich enough to be in the club. Bye.
Some owners should have been tossed from the league YEARS ago for this very reason (*cough* Bob Nutting). It’s terrible PR to tell your fans you’re going to be cheap and not go for it. They’re paying for tickets like you’re going for it, you should have to live up to your end.
And in fairness, Houston has spent when they needed to with Verlander and went for it with Cole but consternating about a $5 million luxury tax bill is pathetic.
Just as it’s pathetic for the Red Sox to trade a generational talent because they want to save what would be a relatively paltry luxury tax sum.
jmaverik
Watch the Yankees and Dodgers scramble to sign Correa and Springer in the next couple of years. All the fake outrage will disappear and they will want the “cheaters” on their teams. Such hypocrisy by both organizations.
yogineely
Nothing will be as hypocritical as correa, crane, and every single fan they let down by cheating. You say earlier you are a fan of 50 years? That means to me that 50 years and 1 tainted piece of metal in that trophy case that 29 other teams fans and players chuckle at. You say Beltrán took it from the Yankees, yet he hadn’t been on the Yankees for over a year, wouldnt they have done better those couple years? The funniest is where are the trashtros now? Hiding and letting their fans defend them(wrongly). You don’t even know them, but you’ll stick up for them despite them being proven wrong? Just because your team is found out to literally be hypocrites and be cheaters don’t trash other teams now. Have fun with dusty!
Rudy Zolteck
“You don’t even know them, but you’ll attack them despite not having firm enough evidence on a lot of your claims? Have fun with Roberts!”
coachbrad
They stole the only banner they have. That’s not even disputed.
stros1fan
Beltran was on the 2016 Yankees until late July.
coachbrad
Definitive
instagram.com/p/B43y2wbBDko/?igshid=qmthr20xmvf2
burtgummer
As a Reds fan I think it’s hilarious that Yankee fans are going on about the Astros but yet the Yankees are king of the hill when it comes to steroid suspensions aka cheating
robertp
Well and the Yankees got slapped down for cheating in 2017 as well. Not to mention Beltran was on the Yankees prior… are we to believe he only ever cheated or attempted to steal signs once he put on an Astros uniform? The problem with all of these people complaining is that nobody has clean hands on stealing signs… many were using technology even. What they’re pissed about is the Astros were more egregious and successful with it. I am not an Astros fan but no fewer than 4 teams including the very loud Yankees and Dodgers, have been accused of cheating since 2017. We know about Tony LaRussa’s scheme in Chicago. We all know about the San Francisco Giants back in the 1950s. This is not new stuff and players know damn well their teams were likely trying to steal signs in one way or another last year as well. I think they feel they can be loud and indignant and it will cast a shadow over any accusations that come their way in the future… though it very well could make them into Rafael Palmiero pariahs if MLB journalists do real journalism and not just hope and rely on a whistleblower to do all their work for them.
And that’s my point. Continuing on about this is ridiculous and only hurts the game. The media is here for sensationalism. They do not care if they burn the sport to the ground. Players should be mindful that their future contracts are tied to attendance figures and revenue and the more they gripe, the more they devalue the sport and push people away… and ultimately what costs them more money? A trash can banging scheme that cost them World Series bonus money? Or not having a sport to play in?
slider32
All MLB teams should not trade with the Astros for 5 years as punishment for their actions.
BobbyDynamite
the way the ESPN talking heads are shepherding their herd, people will be calling for drawing & quartering by next week.
Rudy Zolteck
If you look at all the players that were on the Astros that other teams scooped up when they left, you would see how dumb this is.
bigwestbaseball
Astros are cheaters!
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Spend! Spend! Upgrade the garbage cans.
madmanTX
Good quality trash cans cost money!
jmaverik
I don’t want any of these pompous hypocrites to even think about signing Correa or Springer. Surely you won’t make an offer to a “cheater”.