We looked yesterday at the rotation battle in Phillies’ camp. Now, let’s head across the division and see what’s kicking with the Mets.
Last year’s Mets staff was loaded with talent, but didn’t necessarily produce to its ceiling. Even with Jacob deGrom running out to a second-straight Cy Young award and Zack Wheeler setting the stage for a $110MM contract — one he signed with those rival Phils — the unit managed only a cumulative 4.25 ERA, good for a solid but underwhelming 12th in the game. The staff was still one of the top seven rotations leaguewide by measure of fWAR, but suffice to say the Mets’ best path to a successful season involves a starting group that out-produces virtually all others in baseball.
With Wheeler gone, new Mets skipper Luis Rojas has indicated that only deGrom is assured a rotation spot as camp gets underway. That characterization seems designed to motivate and avoid categorization of existing players. It’s all but impossible to imagine that Noah Syndergaard or Marcus Stroman will be banished to the bullpen. But it’s also a reflection of the fact that the Mets very clearly designed a battle/depth situation at the back of the rotation.
Let’s consider the depth chart …
- deGrom, duh
- Syndergaard, who has a ceiling as high as any pitcher in baseball
- Stroman, acquired last summer with the idea he’d replace the outgoing Wheeler
How does it shape up from there? Let’s look at things by group …
There’s little doubt that the plan is to keep two of these three hurlers in the rotation. If everyone is healthy, the leftover arm will presumably slide into a long relief role. The candidates:
- Rick Porcello: You hate to say that a contract guarantees a particular role, but the Mets assuredly didn’t promise Porcello ten million bucks to slot his durable arm and craft-over-power stuff into the pen. That said, the veteran righty is looking to bounce back from a rough 5.52 ERA effort and isn’t promised anything (beyond that cash) in a must-win season for the Mets.
- Steven Matz: The southpaw is the incumbent here and he owns a sturdy career 4.05 ERA. Trouble is, Matz has been dogged by health issues and some inconsistencies. Rojas spoke of some of the challenges facing Matz, who’ll need to earn his hold on a spot in the 5-man unit. He’ll earn $5MM in his second-to-last season of arbitration eligibility.
- Michael Wacha: It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out for the 28-year-old, whose general career trajectory has been fairly similar to that of Matz. Both have shown the ability to be high-grade starters but also endured stretches of subpar performance and related health issues. He’s only guaranteed $3MM but can earn quite a bit more through incentives, which only adds to the motivation.
Beyond that, things fall off and get quite a bit more speculative. Let’s start with the experienced big leaguers:
- Seth Lugo/Robert Gsellman: Both of these swingmen have functioned as starters and relievers in the majors. The former morphed into a highly effective reliever last year and doesn’t seem likely to shift out of that role. There’s really no indication that Gsellman will be a serious rotation candidate either. Still, these names are worth considering as part of the broader picture.
- Erasmo Ramirez: That’s roughly the same situation for the team’s last remaining pitcher with substantial MLB experience. Ramirez has had some real success in the bigs, though his performance — and opportunities — have dwindled in the past few seasons. Bringing him on was like signing a trust veteran catcher to take up residence at Triple-A: you hope you don’t really need him, but feel comfortable calling upon him if you have to.
Otherwise, no pitcher in camp has completed a full season of MLB service. Several have debuted, though it’s tough to say this smattering of arms is laden with upside:
- Stephen Gonsalves: Once a rather well-regarded prospect, Gonsalves had an ugly 2018 debut and then struggled with arm issues last year. Just what kind of form he’s in remains to be seen … that’s why it’s a camp battle!
- Walker Lockett, Corey Oswalt, Yefry Ramirez, Pedro Payano: These righties are all in the 25-26 age bracket. They’ve each been drubbed in limited big league chances and have never been seen as a high-ceiling hurlers. But they also each showed either an ability to generate solid results (Lockett, Oswalt) or nice strikeout numbers (Ramirez, Payano) in a tough Triple-A environment last year. Lockett and Oswalt have 40-man spots.
- Rob Whalen: Another guy in that age range (he recently turned 26), Whalen has shown a fair bit of promise at times in the minors. He halted his career owing to depression and anxiety, thus missing the 2019 season, so it is not yet clear just where he’ll fit upon his return to the Mets organization.
If all that fails, or some youngster shows a spark, the Mets could look to a few would-be MLB debutantes. The slate of options includes some reasonably interesting names:
- David Peterson: A 2017 first-rounder, Peterson logged a solid Double-A effort last year (116 innings of 4.19 ERA ball with 122:37 K/BB ratio). It’ll be interesting to see how he handles the Triple-A launching pad.
- Franklyn Kilome: The former Phillies prospect is working back from Tommy John surgery and hasn’t yet appeared in a Mets uniform. He’s a former top-100 prospect, so … who knows?
- Thomas Szapucki: The 25-year-old southpaw made his own return from TJS last year and showed he can still get minor-leaguers to swing and miss. He’s a fairly interesting guy to watch but has just one Double-A game under his belt. Importantly, like Kilome, he also presently occupies a 40-man roster spot.
davidk1979
Matz has been more reliable and durable than Wacha over the last two years he should be the fourth starter
wedgeant27
Met Kilome a few weeks ago, saw him throwing. Guy’s a beast. If the TJS recovery doesn’t have any setbacks, expect to see him mid summer out of the pen.
angt222
NYM Starting Rotation:
1) deGrom
2) Syndergaard
3) Stroman
4) Matz
5) Porcello
thebaseballfanatic
I agree… but knowing the Mets, someone is going to get hurt and shatter that plan to pieces.
looiebelongsinthehall
Don’t discount Porcello pitching in the DH less NL and in a much bigger park.
VonPurpleHayes
Yup. This is it. Maybe Matz and Porcello swap, but we’ll see.
Jack Marshall
It is amazing that the Mets, or anyone, would give Porcello 10 million after last season. He received huge offensive support all year, and easily cost the Sox five wins, He wasn’t hurt, he just stunk up the mound, game after game. Sure, he’ could bounce back, but 10 million is a lot to bet on it.
VonPurpleHayes
Citified makes mediocre pitchers look good.
MarlinsFanBase
Then what happened to the pitchers not named deGrom?
NJMetsfan
You literally live for Mets posts.
MarlinsFanBase
What can I say. I’m a fan of comedy.
NJMetsfan
There must never be a dull day rooting for the Marlins then, I see your point.
NJMetsfan
Who even worries about the Marlins? That’s literally the team everyone in the NL East emphasizes they need to beat for better edge in the division lol. Just as relatable, I even feel like I wasted seconds of my life typing some messages to a Marlin fan. Like what is that?
metsie1
He has plenty of time to worry about the Mets given the current state of the Marlins. Jeets doing a bang up job down in Miami.
MarlinsFanBase
You’re right that Jeter is doing a bang up job. You’ll all be seeing it in the next couple of seasons.
You Mets fans always underestimate the Marlins even they\\ough they have just as many championships as the Mets in far less years of existence as the Mets…and the Marlins aren’t the NL East team with the longest championship drought in the division. I guess that’s because of the bang up job the Mets franchise has historically done.
iamhector24
Fan of comedy… your team won’t win 60 games. Your life is a comedy.
NJMetsfan
If no one was around to see the Marlins win the World Series, then did it really happen?
MarlinsFanBase
1986…now that’s comedy!
MarlinsFanBase
If the majority of Mets fans weren’t alive or old enough to have seen them win a championship, then did it really happen?
NJMetsfan
Ah, I’ll let you feel relevant man. I’m sure it fills in the void for not being able to contend or even be remotely competitive for 2020; fortunately for me I live in the presence and can look forward to my team! #LFGM
NJMetsfan
Btw super lame rip from my comment. Figured with all that losing, it would at least make you original.
920kodiak
Very solid rebuttal.
andremets
Well said!!
ExileInLA 2
Kilome and Szapucki are working to replace Stroman for 2021…because if the Mets need either of them in 2020, they’re doomed.
Halo11Fan
This is 2020, virtually every team needs an eight man rotation.
Even Washington had 8 pitchers make 8 or more starts. The Mets only had six pitchers make five or more starts. In today’s game, that’s uncommon.
larry48
Mets will suck in 2020 they will be 3-10 games out most of the season for various reasons.
smytds
Great analysis
EasternLeagueVeteran
A crystal ball filled with water from Flushing Bay? Or is it filled with East River water just outside the House that Ruth built? Seems like the latter.
dugmet
Kevin Smith, SP, could sneak in as a late season call up.
James Solomon
“The staff was still one of the top seven rotations leaguewide by measure of fWAR, but suffice to say the Mets’ best path to a successful season involves a starting group that out-produces virtually all others in baseball.”
They have the potential for a pretty potent offense and bullpen which would allow the rotation to not have to be top 5 for them to be successful
MarlinsFanBase
When you have to dig for a specific stat to talk up a team or player or set of players, they aren’t that good.
Mets pitching staff is all hype and no substance. They are best described by the old classic line that goes along the lines of, “they bring all the sound and fury, but it signifies nothing.”
njbirdsfan
And what do the Marlins have?
Oh right, an empty ballpark that was funded by corporate socialism.
MarlinsFanBase
We have two championships since 1986 while only being around since 1993.
Oh yeah, and we’ve had 6 no-hitters…legitimate no-hitters.
And we’ve had an MVP and have had at least three position players better than any position player to have ever played for the Mets in their entire history.
whynot 2
“We’ve had” oh to have the innocence of a child is priceless
920kodiak
I’m on your side in this thing, but Tom Seaver trumps any pitching argument that can be made between the two teams, no hitters not withstanding.
Rangers29
Pedro Payano came up from AAA with the Rangers last year, in a game against the Twins. He was nasty, I think it was only like 5 innings, maybe 6, but he was good. I think he should impress in spring training for the Mets, and I hope he makes it.
R.D.
This list of depth for the Mets is full of pitchers that seemingly hit a ceiling in AAA.
whynot 2
That is what they are depth pieces
whynot 2
*why
imgman09
Muts
DarkSide830
Mites
njbirdsfan
And your genius Philth finished 4th place behind the Mutts…which makes your franchise an even bigger joke.
jim stem
The only pitcher in that entire group who has actually pitched to his potential is deGrom. I can’t speak for Stroman, but as a Mets fan I can tell you, Syndergaard has trended down ever since he started watching his own speed gun and Matz cannot hit his catcher’s glove with even his fastball. He has very poor command and if it wasn’t for hitters’ tendencies to swing at anything they can see, Matz would be a #1 at AAA.
Neither Matz nor Syndergaard seem to have any kind of bulldog mentality. When I watch them take the mound, it appears they are just trying to “not fail” for 100 pitches rather than looking to beat the other team. Neither has that #1 Ace, “This is MY game and I WILL beat you.”, mentality. They need some tutoring mentally from a former pitcher with an attitude not a data binder. Less thinking, more intestinal fortitude.
Just one fan’s opinion, but all you have to do is watch them pitch. They aren’t even in the same clubhouse as deGrom, Scherzer, Verlander, or even Bauer and Keuchel.
MarlinsFanBase
I’ve said things along the same lines many times. As a Marlins fan, I see what my team’s rivals have, their weaknesses. The Mets pitching staff to me has been all hype and no substance. deGrom is the only pitcher that has lived up to the hype. The rest are overrated.
metsie1
Yet not one Marlin pitcher could be part of the starting five for the Mets. What does that say about your team. Stop embarrassing yourself and head back over to your Jesus Aguilar thread.
MoRivera 1999
S. Alcantara and C. Smith both outperformed Porcello, 109, 94 to 87 ERA+.
S. Alcantara outperformed Matz, 109 to 96 ERA+.
EasternLeagueVeteran
So Lugo gas a broken toe and may be iff the mound for some portion of Spring Training. That keeps Gsellman in the pen. The Mets should go and get someone like their old friend Colin McHugh, and keep him for long relief/spot starting. I think he is still in the market.
MarlinsFanBase
“Last year’s Mets staff was loaded with talent, but didn’t necessarily produce to its ceiling”
That quote needs to be changed to be accurate of the reality. Replace the start to “Every year Mets staff is said to be loaded with talent, but have yet to produce consistently to their hype.”
And how long is the NY based national media going to continue to talk about the Mets pitching staff’s ceiling and “potential”? deGrom is entering his age-32 season. Wheeler is gone having not really lived up to anything as he enters his age-30 season with a division rival. Steven Matz is entering his age-29 season, being mediocre ever since the league figured him out during his second season. Marcus Stroman is entering his age-29 season with decent, but not spectacular, hype deserving performance. Noah Syndergaard enters his age-27, but seems to be exposed more every year, including this past year which was his first full season. Then there is Porcello entering his age-31 season of a slightly above mediocre career. And Michael Wacha entering his age-28 season in a career in which he continues to be exposed every year since his early success before injuries and the league figuring him out.
How long is the hype going to surround this pitching staff and the excuses being made as to why they don’t live up to the hype? These guys have been in the league too long for this. deGrom is the only one that is worthy of the hype. You put the rest in a small market, and nobody talks about them other than the flaws that the NY media refuses to point out that everyone else sees.
MarlinsFanBase
Oh yeah, and all of this before I get into Matt Harvey, whose sitting home with his daddy asking, “Daddy, why don’t anyone want me? You know I’m the greatest pitcher in the history of the game.”
whynot 2
Even if he is sitting home, he has accomplished and earned more than you ever will.
G Vanlue
You seem a little obsessed here. In a year in which the Mets rotation “didn’t necessarily produce to its ceiling”, they were still in the top 5 in WAR. They are projected to be in the top 5 in WAR this year. Maybe deGrom was the only star, but the rest were consistently good enough that the team won 86 games, and could have won 90+ with a better bullpen. If the rotation is anything like last year, it’s absolutely good enough to make the playoffs. With the exception of deGrom and maybe Stroman, you could make the case that any of the other guys has good odds to improve on their performance from last year, So, as a fan, I’m fairly content with the rotation. And as flawed as the Mets may be as an organization, I’d still rather support them than a team that hates having nice things so much that they get rid of all their good players and their nice outfield installation pieces.
NJMetsfan
He’s a closet Mets fan.
whynot 2
The fish would love to have any of them
MoRivera 1999
Perhaps not Matz or Porcello. S. Alcantara outperformed both of them, and Caleb Smith outperformed Porcello. And I think many would say Alcantara and Smith have better upside than Matz or Porcello.
andremets
You do realize Porcello has won a XT young AND a ring right? Let’s see how he does in the weaker NLEast before you keep bringing up the Alcantara card.
Rsox
Mets may be able to cash in Matz. Red Sox, Yankees, Indians all could use a starter right about now.
Bart Harley Jarvis
All of the Mets pitchers are the greatest! I love the Mets because they’re always so good!