TODAY: The deal is expected to send righty Ross Stripling to the Halos and also involves other prospects going to the Dodgers, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). It has yet to be finalized, though, and “a lot of moving parts” remain.
Stripling has quietly been an extremely effective MLB hurler over the years, turning in 387 career innings of 3.51 ERA ball with 8.8 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9. There have been some health issues at times, but the swingman has been quite good when available. He’s slated to earn $2.1MM this year with two more seasons of team control remaining thereafter.
YESTERDAY, 10:30pm: The Angels will also acquire outfielder Andy Pages, Kiley McDaniel of ESPN reports. The 19-year-old Pages slashed a phenomenal .298/.398/.651 with 19 home runs in 279 plate appearances at the rookie level last season. FanGraphs rated the Dominican Republic native as the Dodgers’ 29th-best prospect last May.
10:14pm: This trade will include more players, pending medical reviews, Passan tweets. The Angels will also get “a big league starter and a prospect,” while the Dodgers will pick up a prospect along with Rengifo, per Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic.
8:54pm: The Angels are set to acquire outfielder Joc Pederson from the Dodgers, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported. The Dodgers will get infielder Luis Rengifo in the deal, per Jeff Passan of ESPN.
This has been a wild night for the Dodgers, who previously struck an absolute blockbuster delivering former Red Sox superstar Mookie Betts and lefty David Price to LA. The Dodgers let go of outfielder Alex Verdugo in the deal and sent righty Kenta Maeda to the Twins in what will go down as one of the most memorable trades in recent baseball history.
This move’s quite an encore for the Dodgers, whose outfield has undergone massive changes in a small amount of time. Pederson and Verdugo were regulars last season, a 106-win campaign for the club, but now the unit’s fronted by two MVP winners in Betts and Cody Bellinger. There’s also the well-compensated A.J. Pollock and depth on hand in Chris Taylor, Enrique Hernandez and Matt Beaty.
To at least some extent, the Dodgers will miss the 27-year-old Pederson, who has been an easily above-average hitter since his first full season in 2015. Pederson’s now coming off a typically productive showing in 2019, when he slashed .249/.339/.538 with 3.0 fWAR and a a career-high 36 home runs in 514 plate appearances. If there’s one major knock on Pederson’s offense, it’s that the left-hander has struggled versus southpaws, who have held him to an awful .188/.263/.310 line during his time in the bigs.
Now a member of the Angels, Pederson will join yet another jam-packed outfield. The group’s headlined by center fielder Mike Trout, of course, with Justin Upton holding down left field. Brian Goodwin had been the projected starting right fielder before Tuesday, but he looked like a placeholder before the forthcoming promotion of elite prospect Jo Adell. Now, it’s unclear exactly how the Angels’ right field situation will shake out in 2020. Regardless, they’ll tack on approximately $8.5MM to their payroll for Pederson, who’s in his last year of arbitration eligibility. Landing him is the latest aggressive pickup in an offseason that previously saw the Angels add Anthony Rendon, Jason Castro, Julio Teheran and Dylan Bundy to a team that hasn’t made the playoffs since 2015.
In Rengifo, the Angels are giving up a 22-year-old fresh off a promising first season in the majors. The switch-hitter slashed .238/.321/.364 during a 406-plate appearance span in which he mostly lined up at second base. As recently as last February, FanGraphs ranked Rengifo as the Angels’ seventh-best prospect, giving him a chance to turn into a “regular second baseman.” That’ll be a difficult task now for Rengifo, who’s joining a loaded Dodgers team with Taylor, Hernandez, Max Muncy and Gavin Lux as second base possibilities. Rengifo does have two minor league options remaining, however, so it’s not majors or bust for him.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
IS THIS A SEPARATE DEAL?!?!?!
Yeah. Rosenthal tweeted it is
YES
why are you yelling?
BECAUSE I HAVE ISSUES!!!
lol
LOL!!!
We have J. D. Issues
E snad grad guyieb of eu snab E gab N ou doom kad guyieb
E snyieb E guyieb of eu doom kad gab N ou snab E guyieb.
Touché. I thought you had “Voice Immodulation Disorder” – youtube.com/watch?v=oDgez8QDAKo
THAT WAS SO FUNNY!!!
I wonder if price will be attached then dodgers dont have to take any salary back
That makes a lot of sense and I think that’s why ken said if trade is completed
You really think the biggest name is just gonna be thrown in after. Ok Mr. Delusional
You do realize LA just subtracted from their rotation to add Price, right? Lmfao
They had plenty of ability to subtract (which isn’t a subtraction, it’s a downgrade). Clearly, they have faith in May, Gonsolin, and Urias to pick up innings this year.
Hey buddy. It looks like someone forgot to tell the Red Sox they were supposed to trade for Joc Pederson.
….you do realize the fact that the Angel Dodger trade popped off at the exact same moment that the Betts trade did…. the players in the LAD/LAA trade were on the table in the 3 team
Aka, Boston woulda taken Joc :O
No the Red Sox wouldn’t take Pederson or he would be going to Boston. Boston wanted salary relief and taking an expensive platoon player does not help them in any way.
@Koamalu they also wanted controllable players, which Pederson isn’t. If they wanted a proven player on an expiring contract they would have just kept the one they had.
Not necessarily
Maybe the package with Joc was then 60M going back to LA
There’s more to a trade than one component, especially when amount of money changes the talent level required so much
No one else wanted price without Bos taking a 20M salary back. Expect LA. They did the dirty work for Boston with Joc and Maeda, and both teams are under the tax
It’s far more complicated than just any one player in this deal, especially from LA ‘s side
@Commonsenseslapsyou yeah, they were on the table. But Boston passed on Joc. And do you know why? Because he is a rental player and since the Red Sox are rebuilding, they have no use for rental players.
Boston isn’t going to agree to take any more of Price’s contract in exchange for getting Joc because they don’t want Joc. They want controllable players.
Repeat after me: Rebuilding teams do not trade for rental players.
And repeat after me: teams at the luxury tax limit aren’t rebuilding
If they were going to take 60M of Myers, Joc’s 8M AAV was on the table in some scenarios
I said since day 1, Joc may not end up in Boston. But there must have been scenarios with Joc going to Boston, or they woulda done the Angel trade whenever they wanted, not at the same damn hour. To claim otherwise is just wanting your opinion to be right and ignoring common sense
@Commonsenseslapsyou do not compare Wil Myers to Joc Pederson. The Red Sox would have gained prospects in exchange for taking Myers. The Red Sox would have given up prospects in exchange for taking Pederson. The Dodgers were never going to give Pederson up for nothing. WHY would the Red Sox want to give up prospects for a one-year rental when they are rebuilding? And yes they are rebuilding. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have even considered trading Mookie Betts. Not for even a microsecond.
Pederson was never going to go to Boston. If the Dodgers wanted to move him to clear salary for Betts/Price, they would simply flip him to someone else. I said it before and it’s exactly what happened.
No no, don’t change your tune now bud
You said the Red Sox would have no interest at all in Joc, even to flip. Amazing how you change your stance as your proven wrong lmfao. Nice try dude, try a non dodger thread next time you pretend to know something you know nothing about. Less likely I’ll destroy your arguments
And why wouldn’t I compare Myers to Joc? They represented the exact same thing to their respective team- a salary and player they would like to not pay in 2020 if Mookie Betts was coming to town.
The differences all favor Joc, from age, to performance, to contract
They’re identical in every sense in this scenario however. Cmon get over your wishy-washy still wrong opinions and insults
I said the DODGERS would flip Joc to someone else crack head. Not the Red Sox. And that is exactly what happened.
I should have known you would be the type who being proven wrong causes you to dig your heels in even harder rather than just saying “Ok. I was wrong. I give up.” You can either put down the shovel, take my hand and I can help you out of the hole you’ve dug yourself into, or you can keep digging. Choice is yours.
Lastly, there is no better way to prove your insecurity than to tell your counterpart that you are “destroying their arguments.”
“And why wouldn’t I compare Myers to Joc? They represented the exact same thing to their respective team- a salary and player they would like to not pay in 2020 if Mookie Betts was coming to town.”
That’s not true at all bub! If the Dodgers simply didn’t want to pay Joc he would have been non-tendered. The Dodgers traded him because they decided they could use 6 years of Luis Rengifo more than they could use 1 year of Joc Pederson.
“They’re identical in every sense in this scenario however.”
Nope. Myers is a player who his team would give up prospects just to get rid of. Pederson is a player who his team would demand that the other team give them prospects in exchange for them giving him up.
JimGoat – you can stop now. Pederson’s “surplus value” (your words) got LA a 10th man and forced them to give up a 19-year old who hits bombs. Pederson is what WE said he was; a salary dump.
You overvalued Pederson. Admit it, move on. It’s ok. We all have a player we think highly of more than others.
Since no one wants to argue with WAJGH he’ll go ahead and interject himself into yours!
The trade isn’t even finalized and all the players involved aren’t listed. But go ahead and interject yourself into it my little buddy!
Can I just interject for a moment to say that I am completely amazed by your foresight and baseball acumen? Super impressive. This is the reason I spend so much time on MLBTR.
But not really.
There you are AllOurGodsHaveAbandonedUs
And as we move forward the rumored deal continues to prove me right. I jumped into the conversation 4 hours earlier than you AFNIE and all you did was drop more redundancy. Although every comment you make is redundant. At least you’re consistent. Slow but consistent.
Surplus value is surplus value. Never said Joc had a ton. Just that he had some. LA was never going to give him up for nothing. If they wanted to do that he would have been non-tendered.
No he was not a salary dump. If he was the Dodgers would have gotten nothing for him and maybe had to eat some of his salary.
But that is all beside the point. My point is and was that the Red Sox were never going to trade for Joc Pederson. Why would they? Their 2020 season is sunk and they know it. All he’d do is cost them a prospect and money and hurt their draft position then walk after the season is over.
It’s ok. You’re allowed to be wrong.
This argument is too early to have. The Angels are evidently sending 2 more prospects over. Before discussing what any of this was it’d be important to know who they are. Stripling, Pederson, and a Prospect for Rengifo would imply that Joc had no surplus value. This is pretty close. If the two prospects they get back are of any consequence that could flip the discussion.
If Joc had no surplus value he’d have been non-tendered
Jim… No. The Dodgers had a spot for him, yesterday when they acquired Betts, they didn’t.
Or the intention was to keep him without getting Betts. He could’ve very very easily had 0 surplus value on his deal. That’s certainly possible. Whatever he ends up making could’ve been right at market value and no team was willing to give up anything to acquire.
In which case he would have been non-tendered
Seems like you’re lacking common sense, CommonSense
My head hurts.
Sooo… Joc, Stripling and Page for Rengifo? I’m confused too
Plus two prospects, not yet known. Word is that they won’t be any of the Angels top prospects (no Jordyn Adams, no Jeremiah Jackson), but “Word” may be wrong. We’ll see.
Biggest trade of the night for the Dodgers?
Angels/Dodgers crosstown World Series. You heard it here first.
Not with that pitching staff for LAA… They’d be lucky to even win the AL West.
The Dodgers would be lucky to win the the AL West too. The AL WEST is so much better than the weak division the Dodgers play in.
Dodgers are clearly the best team in baseball right now besides the Yanks so I think they would win the AL West no problem if they were in that division. Astros seem like they will take a step back, A’s are a hit or miss, Mariners are always underwhelming and LAA has no pitching…
There is one team in the AL West that is on par with the Dodgers, that being the resident cheaters. Don’t kid yourself into believing anyone else in that division is even close to 100 win quality.
A’s won 97 2 years in a row and should be even better this year.. that’s pretty close.
The dodgers are not in the AL West lol
The dodgers are not in the AL West insert eye roll here.
The dodgers are not in the AL West hahahah
The Dodgers hold up their Division, just like the Astros do.
Trout, Pederson, Upton, Goodwin… does Adell get traded for a top notch pitcher? Why intentionally crowd your outfield at a time when your best prospect- who is an *outfielder*- is getting MLB ready?
Angels will flip Pederson mid season if Adell is ready.
No. Pederson is a platoon player and is gone after 2020. Goodwin is a good 4th or 5th OF, not a starter.
Adell will be called up mid-June or as soon as an injury happens. If we are not contending by the deadline, Pederson will be traded and Adell will step in.
Adell is not ready. 20 years old, his aaa call up was not good. Tons of ks, no power etc. and that’s in the pcl where everyone hits bombs. let the kid take his time and develop another year. He’ll be great but this gives him some time.
Joc is a platoon player but he mashes right handed pitching. 920 ops 36 homers!
Let’s not forget that Joc can play 1B as well as all 3 OF positions. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a big part of the 2020 Angels
Have you seen Joc try to play first base? It was painful to watch. Angels will hopefully keep him in the outfield.
If you think Adell is not ready that tells me you never saw him play.
Adell will be up this season. The only question is whether he comes up in April or June. Adding Pederson won’t change that.
Joc had 6 errors in 20 appearances at 1B. You’d be better off leaving it open and running a 4 man OF
It was a 131 plate appearance sample size. And actually, little known fact, he had a two home run/four hit AAA game wiped out by rain. Add that to his stats, and they look just fine, which speaks to the nature of how small the size is.
Angels are not trading Adell. He is their RF of the future. Joc will in a likelihood be a 1 year Angel. The Angels have 4 outfielders, Trout, Adell, Joc, and Upton. These things seem to work themselves. It will only be a problem if all 4 are mashing. We know Mike Trout will be Mike Trout. We will need to wait to see how the others do. How will Upton be in AAA. Does he another year of seasoning? How will Joc transition to the American League facing pitchers he hasnt faced before? Can Upton return to form after an injury plagued season? It wont take like to see what 3 of the 4 will be the Angels OF for 2019. There is also Goodwin but he slowed down a lot the 2nd half last year.
Angels are not trading Adell. He is their RF of the future. Joc will in a likelihood be a 1 year Angel. The Angels have 4 outfielders, Trout, Adell, Joc, and Upton. These things seem to work themselves. It will only be a problem if all 4 are mashing. We know Mike Trout will be Mike Trout. We will need to wait to see how the others do. How will Upton be in AAA. Does he another year of seasoning? How will Joc transition to the American League facing pitchers he hasnt faced before? Can Upton return to form after an injury plagued season? It wont take like to see what 3 of the 4 will be the Angels OF for 2019. There is also Goodwin but he slowed down a lot the 2nd half last year.
Maybe Adell is the prospect to be named that is going to the Dodgers pending a physical.
Plus, there is Brandon Marsh coming up. And someday, D’Shawn Knowles, if he’s not one of the prospects going to the Dodgers
With the current Angels rotation. Gonna be tough
LOL. Ohtani, Teheran, Heaney, Canning, Bundy, Sandoval is at least 1.00 ERA better than we were last year. We also get another major league starter in this trade so we get even better.
AL West fans hope the Angels pitching staff is as bad as last year because we now have a lineup that rivals any team in the AL.
Your pitching is still subpar. Also, how’s your bullpen?
Lastly, that line-up…2 bonafide studs in Trout and Rendon but the rest is nothing special outside of Ohtani. He does have great potential but it remains to be seen if he can do both full time.
The Angels are, at best, third best in the AL West.
The Staff has upside. Sorry you don’t see that.
Ohtani was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball. Heaney struck out over 13 batters per nine last year. His swinging strike rate and Contact pct in the strike zone was elite last year.
Canning was the 56th best prospect in baseball last year and did nothing to show it was not deserved.
Stripling has made the All Star Team and the last two years has an ERA+ of 124.
As far as the Bull Pen. Who knows? Who knows with any Bullpen.
As I’ve said, Ohtani has great potential. Heaney struck out 11/9 last year…in 95 innings because he can’t stay healthy. ERA+ of 92, FIP of 4.63, and gave up 1.9 homers per 9(ouch!). Juiced ball? Fine, but his career is a hefty 1.6 so you can blame the balls last year.
Canning was the 56th best prospect in baseball? Wow, has that like ever happened before when a pitcher was the 56th best prospect? Canning is a mid-rotation arm at best.
Stripling is a solid get and easily slots in at #2 behind Ohtani.
Lol, that’s such a cop out. The bullpen is a giant question mark, don’t try to sweep it under the rug.
And Ohtani. Teheran, Heaney,Canning, Bundy, Stripling is even better. Not exactly terrifying but a big step up, with a much better offense behind them.
Mac…the pitching staff is suspect. Upside, yes. And if they perform it will be a pleasant surprise. But to bet on the Angels starting staff to raise up to the level they need to get to for the division is very tall order for a group of unproven commodities.
As for Pederson, if the Angels are in the mix and Adell proves to be ready I could see Pujols being the odd man out and going with an Adell/Trout/Pederson OF and Upton DH. That all hinges on Thiass or Walsh stepping up also. The team hitting is deep and ridiculous now.
“Guest”,
The staff is very suspect. I also think the A’s staff is very suspect. I think Puk, Luzardo and Montas have great upside, but let’s face it, if you haven’t done it, or you are coming off injury (or PED suspension) you are suspect.
I think I have higher expectation of Upton than others. He was hurt last year, the previous two years his wRC+ was 23rd in baseball. As far as defense, he’s not a bum, he’s adequate. I don’t get all the people that say he’s done.
Man I hope Puljos is the odd man out. I doubt Thais and Walsh will every be plus every day players. I don’t even think about them.
Rivera, Starting pitching is above average. Already covered that. Go read it.
Bullpen is MUCH, MUCH better than the staff that was middle of the road in 2019 for several reason.
#1 – All the guys that had to make starts because of our starting pitching woes will now get to stay in the pen. Bedrosian, Ramirez, Peters, Pena, Garcia. Guys that were extremely effective as relievers now gt to just be relievers.
#2 – The load on the bullpen has been lessened by adding starters that can eat up 160-180 innings and by getting Ohtani back. Now instead of being forced to pitch 4 2/3 innings per game and use 5 relievers per game, maybe they can just have to come in for the 7-8-9 innings..
Upton, Trout, Pederson, Rendon, Simmons, Fletcher, Pujols, Castro, Ohtani. Other than the future HOF Pujols, there is no hole in that lineup. Every single one is an above average hitter and Trout and Rendon are two of the 5 best hitters in baseball. Ohtani ranked 4th among DH that played 100 or more games as a DH. Upton and Simmons were injured last season. When healthy Upton is top 25 hitter in the game .Simmons hit .285/.334 while playing unarguably the best defense in baseball in 2017-2018. Fletcher hit .290/.350 in his first full season in the majors last year. Castro put up a 102 OPS+ and 103 wRC+ and ranks 15th on offense of the 68 catchers with 400 innings caught. Just no holes in that lineup. Exceptional defense to boot.
With Pederson and Stripling, the Angels are a WC contender.
@rivera42 Our rotation is much improved over last year. Teheran and Stripling had ERA+ of 119 last and Ohtani had an ERA+ of 127 two years ago when he last pitched.. All these ERA+ are higher than anyone that started for the Yankees last year and the Yankees won over 100 games last year.
The Angels bullpen lead all of baseball the first couple months last year. They were mismanaged and overused by Ausmus. Maddon will correct some of the wrong from a year ago. Maddon lead the Cubs to a WS championship and took the low budget Rays to the WS. Name another with this on his resume?
@rivera42 Our rotation is much improved over last year. Teheran and Stripling had ERA+ of 119 last and Ohtani had an ERA+ of 127 two years ago when he last pitched.. All these ERA+ are higher than anyone that started for the Yankees last year and the Yankees won over 100 games last year.
The Angels bullpen lead all of baseball the first couple months last year. They were mismanaged and overused by Ausmus. Maddon will correct some of the wrong from a year ago. Maddon lead the Cubs to a WS championship and took the low budget Rays to the WS. Name another with this on his resume?
Well there’s a reason we heard it from you first. Nobody else in their right mind would ever say that. You’re probably half right though.
and also we heard it here last… because it’s borderline dumb.
Borderline ? Feel like I’m going to lose my mind.
The Angels pitching staff is terrible and Trout has 1 career postseason hit.
No one is worried about them.
It was a moonshot though
Because nothing says “definitive” like a 3 game sample
I’m a Dodgers fan, but it’s my life dream. Lol. Dodgers vs. Angels would set off WW3 in my family!
Nooooo not my Joc, maybe we can see him in a dodgers uniform again one day
MLB is a better place when both LA & NY teams are contending
Really? I could, along with I’m guessing a sizeable amount of others, give a fuq if any team from NY or LA was contending.
Agreed. I actually like baseball better when those teams aren’t contending
Yep. Was almost impossible not to root for Kansas City when they made their run.
Really? I could, along with I’m guessing a sizeable amount of others, give a fuq if any team from NY or LA was contending.
So dumb you had to say it twice?
lol
Not dumb. You think Cardinals and Braves and Tigers and Brewers fans, or any fans outside of NY and LA, think during the off-season, gee, I wish the Dodgers and Yankees put together some solid teams this season or the MLB season just won’t be the same.
No, we don’t care.
The only people (besides the fans of those teams) that care are the networks because of the extra money involved. Outside of that, I’m sure most other fans couldn’t care if the NY or LA teams missed the playoffs (and a lot would probably love it).
Yes, those other teams do care somewhat because 48% of local MLB revenues are pooled and redistributes to all teams. In 2018, that was $118M/ team. If the Dodgers and Yankees don’t do well or draw ( and they were #1 and #3 respectively in 2019), distributed revenues go down. Same applies for TV revenue sharing as well.
The bottom third of MLB teams in small markets depend greatly on those revenues to keep going. The bottom 5 teams for sure would be bankrupt otherwise.
lol
Fair point! The other cities should probably route for the NY and LA teams to just “narrowly” miss the playoffs. LOL. Go Dodgers! And Ross Stripling is a very good pitcher, but I am not sure that he can handle a high number of innings.
LA has one team.
It has two, if you count the Dodgers.
Who’s the other LA team in addition to the Dodgers?
Theres another LA team called the Dodgers?
You’re late to the party, but I’m sure you did your best.
The Rancho Cucamonga Quakes throws together an OK team every now and then.
Utter bs. Why would I, a Chicago sports fan, give a flip about the Yankees or Dodgers not making the playoffs? No fan outside of NYC or LA cares if those city’s teams make the postseason every year, nor should they. So tired of the national media telling people this all the time.
Fox and MLB care. The WS ratings have been underperforming for most of the last decade.
Including teams in the two biggest TV markets would help their cause.
Uh…didnt the Dodgers just play in a couple world series or am I imagining things?
Both might be true. Imagining things is much better if it involves Shakira or JLo than if it involves baseball.
imagine the viewing numbers for a possible W.S. matchup between the two. A record, I would guess.
It might surpass the Cubs-Indians WS TV ratings but not by much. The glory days of national TV ratings for baseball was about 40 years ago.
Bargain
Salary dump
Whose going to LA if Joc goes to Anaheim?
Luis rengifo ss
Dumping Pederson for a scrub….
I like Rengifo, but he’s no more than a super utility guy.
You right especially a guy who hit 36 Homer’s last season for a one year rental. Betts will be testing free agency for the higher bidder LA won’t be able to pay what he asking and you will never see Joc, back in a Dodgers uniform again….Oh yeah Price can’t stay healthy and National league hitters love hitting him. (Nonsense Trade)
More like nonsense comment
Seriously. If you take the average total WAR for outfielders in the Hall of Fame for their peak 7 years…. Mookie has already equaled that total in 5 years. And he’s only 27 now.
Joc is also a free agent at the end of the season so….
Hit 36 HRs but also sub .250 overall. You’d be better off with a cardboard cutout against RHP, the cardboard would probably draw a few walks
Why does it matter that he only hit .249 last year? It’s not like it came with zero production or little production, because if it did, I would understand that, but he hit 30+ bombs for the first time.
Why Rengifo? Not absolute garbage, but why?
Clears cap space to resign mookie, also controllable asset in reingfo. That could mean the chris taylor or enrique could be moved for extra pieces later on.
lol.
Mookie is going to FA no matter what. It’s important for the upcoming CBA he has implied.
Kind of why the said “re-sign”.
Yes he is FA
I know what you mean, but there’s no cap. Just luxury tax.
Joc was also in his last year, and would’ve come off next year’s cbt regardless.
If anything, dumping Joc is more about getting a comp rd pick after 2nd rd in the draft by being below cbt this year. But certainly not to have room free to attempt to sign mookie after this year
From the Dodgers standpoint…stash him for 2020 and move a player for him in 2021
From the Angels standpoint…you have La Stella/Fletcher currently and he was 3rd and 4th in the depth charts which made him expendable to acquire an OF mad SP….
As of now(15hrs+ after) the initial reporting its reading more like there is trouble agreeing on players and nothing will get done…
Why?
Dodgers get price, twins get Maeda, and Angels are like “let’s get another outfielder”
The are gonna platoon joc with goodwin then they do have to rush adell. Not a bad move
And that’ll be the first lefty/lefty platoon in MLB history.
Goodwin has reverse platoon splits. So yes, they would platoon him with Pederson.
He also has close to 600 less career plate appreances VS lefties than righties. So while the stats right now show he hits lefties better than righties, that’s not how he’s been played in the four years he’s been in the league.
We’ll see if it happens, and if he continues to hit that well facing the majority of his at bat’s against lefties.
I definitely like joc, but nothing matters if the pitching doesn’t hold up
Angels needed a left handed batter because of Cole Calhoun leaving them right handed heavy.
Brian Goodwin, who was set to fill RF until Adell was ready, is a lefty hitter…
Pederson fills the same platoon side as Goodwin and he hit 36 HR with an OPS 80 points higher and an OPS+ of 127 vs 109 for Goodwin.
I love Goodwin as a 4th or 5th OF, but he is not as good as Pederson.
Soon enough Adell who hits RH will be called up and then he can ease into the lineup by taking the short side of the RF platoon and filling in for Upton occasionally. .
He’s a lefty hitter who hits lefties better than righties. So yes, Pederson/Goodwin platoon.
Wow. This must mean Seager might be included in the deal with Betts
Might mean
Nope
You’re either high or an absolute moron, if you think the Dodgers would rather have one 40 homer guy as opposed to 2. It makes zero sense. Why give up your shortstop for David Price and some rando infielder?
Wtf why
Why does every fan think the Dodgers FO are buffoons?
Lol delete
Do you even follow baseball?
They gave up joc for nothing
Pure salary dump move by the Dodgers, and clears the logjam in the OF. Joc unfortunately was the odd man out as the front office would rather role with Pollock and his right-handedness in the lineup over Joc in LF.
Don’t they have a logjam in the IF now?
Rengifo could end up in Oklahoma to start the season. Or maybe there’s more to come.
I don’t think you’re going to want to pursue the “salary dump” theory on the night the Dodgers increased their 2020 payroll $60M by adding Betts and Price. The $8M for Pederson hardly balances those scales.
it is a salary dump. This move will get them under the luxury tax. Unless you want to argue that the Dodgers really like Rengifo… (he’s not a bad player, btw)
Dodgers still over $210 million after moving Peterson and that is if the Red Sox are $48 million of Price’s contract. That is over the luxury tax threshold.
Pederson.
Remember lux tax is 208M this year. This site has them Only 12,500 over the tax at the moment
Given the still unreported/un-finalized nature of both deals, I think it’s a pretty safe assumption they Got under the line
Boston is sending 50M last I heard btw, 16M AAV
spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/payroll/
In fact, Since LAA is getting a starter+ prospect, that gap will almost guarantee to be closed imo
Cots has them $3 million under.
Lux costs them 208M already??
If its Stripling they will be close. His salary is $2.1 million. That would put them right at or just over $208 million. Then add Rengifo at MLB minimum.
Its close. It all depends on how much the Red Sox are actually paying of Price’s contract. The only definitive statement so far is that “the Red Sox will pay a substantial portion of that sum to lessen the sting for the Dodgers”. Different people have said anywhere from $30 million to half today. We will just have to wait on that until its announced. Unless its $48 million, the Dodgers are not going to be close to being under the CBT.
I imagine the Sox are paying down a bunch of it.
Graterol and Verdugo is a solid package. Price’s deal was so underwater that Betts may not even provide enough value to offset it. Essentially trading them both for nothing may still have been a bad deal for the acquiring team.
If Verdugo and Graterol are going to the Sox I’m assuming they paid the contract down heavily. If not…. Bloom has really started off strongly in Boston.
Its a salary dump in the sense that they’re clearing space, as minimal as it is, for Betts and Price. They’re obviously not going to match dollar for dollar, but they clear out a contract that is deemed surplus.
Agree but will really miss Joc.
Why do the Rangers have to be in the same division with a team that has Trout, Rendon, Pederson, Ohtani, Upton, Fletcher, Castro, and La Stella…
And no pitching. A’s will probably win division
Maybe. But the less maybe answer are the Astros.
Yea, thats not real. They had injured pitching. If they get any health their staff will be above average.
Above average? Whoa! That’s an interesting take.
Ohtani, Teheran, Heaney, Canning, Bundy, Sandoval, Peters, and whatever major league starter we get from the Dodgers in the Pederson trade.
Ohtani is an Ace. We may only get him for 25 starts, but he is an Ace.
Teheran is a solid #2. 3.81 ERA last year and moves to a pitchers park and division.
Heaney is healthy for a change. Let’s hope he can stay that way because when he does he has plus stuff.
Canning was a rookie last year and still was better than average.
Bundy at #5 is an innings eater. He will improve slightly because of the move from Camden Yards to the Big A and having Maddon and Callaway is going to help too, but even not he gives us innings we lacked last year.
Sandoval, Peters, and who ever comes over from the Dodgers give us MLB quality depth..
That is better than average.
you’re a fool if you think Ohtani is getting 25 starts…they’re already trying to work out how to send him down to the minors for rehab once the season starts! also Teheran’s walk rate is going to sink him in the AL, good luck with rest of the rotation as well…
Ohtani will get at least 20 starts and possibly 25. They are working on having a 6 man rotation which will give Ohtani plenty of rest. He will miss 8 starts that he would have had in a 5 man rotation, hence 25 starts. If they send him down for a few weeks to start the season and go with a 5 man rotation, Ohtani will still get 24-25 starts. Callaway is saying they will cap his innings at 140-150. You do the math.
Teheran will be just what he has always been. A solid, well above average starter that eats up 170-180 innings per season. 110 ERA+ and 3.67 ERA tells the story.
Canning was a top 100 prospect going into his rookie season last year and was above league average. Above average are the key two words.
Heaney has been hurt too much to know what we really have, but when healthy he has been good putting up 4.15 ERA in 30 starts in 2018. He was was the #18 overall prospect in baseball when we acquired him in 2014 and was expected to be a top of the rotation starter.
Bundy is an innings eater. Which is extremely valuable, He will be the #5 on our staff and is as good or better than most #5 starters around the league.
That is 4 of 5 starters that we can reasonably expect to be above average and one that is there to eat innings and we can reasonably expect will get better going from the AL East to the West.
Beyond those 5 we have MLB depth with Sandoval, Peters, and Stripling if he is the pitcher in this trade.
We don’t need luck. We have a good staff.
Lol Castro and LaStella. Simmons is the terrific SS
Castro is a very good defensive catcher. He will improve our team ERA. Fletcher is our 2B now and he put up 4 WAR last season playing out of position at 3rd most of the year..LaStella will come off the bench after hitting .295/.346/.486/.832 in 80 games last season. I like bench guys that hit that well.
This can’t be the end of it. Last time I checked the Angels were set in the outfield.
Goodwin is the odd man out.
Platoon with joc joc cant hit one side of pitching. He has been platooned last 2 years with dodgers. Huge pick up for angels, still wondering if they get price once deal is done with red sox.
Platooning a lefty with another lefty. Bold strategy Cotton.
Yeah!
Oh wait, the Dodgers used Joc… and Verdugo…. in the same platoon…. even though they’re lefties….. just last year
OMG A LEFTY CAN HIT A LEFTY. someone call the presses
Platooning a lefty with a lefty who has reverse platoon splits. Correct strategy Harwood.
I agree. I’m wondering if they’re going to pivot Joc for a pitcher. I know Joc was discussed quite often this offseason.
I was thinking the same thing. There’s got to be something else in the works. They have Goodwin to hold down right until Adell gets there. Left handed also. The move makes no sense.
Goodwin and Hermosillo with Adell coming soon. Great place to be.
Joc hit 36 home runs last year and they traded it away for garbage
My mom hit 36HRs last year.
I’m not sure that’s what your mom meant when she told you that she got to 4th base 36 times last year.
Lol
Booooo
Lol +1
Dodgers making out well for themselves.
The Angels stole Joc!
I guess, if you think taking on $9 million for a one-dimensional platoon free agent to be OF is a steal.
He’ll hold down RF until Adell is ready.
Goodwin will platoon or just be the 4th OF.
Joc is probably trade bait in August, in a FA walk year or nets the Angels a comp pick.
Eppler could get prospects back in a trade or trade others for a SP.
The qualifying offer is going to be at least $17M next year. I would hope the Angels don’t give him that
Billy won’t offer Pederson a QO, but if we are not in contention at the trade deadline or Adell came up and killed it I can see him trading Pederson for something at least as good as Rengifo.
I wouldn’t mind them flipping Joc for another pitcher right now, even with Stripling coming to the Angels in the deal. I’m still worried about which prospect(s) Eppler is sending back.
Its none of the top 10. We know that.
@dman07 I definitely wasn’t expecting this. The Dodgers fleeced the Red Sox so bad in the deal that they decided to share with their neighbors, the Angels.
I think a starting pitcher must have done something atrocious to the Angels owners mom in the 70’s or something. He really seems to hate them.
Joc’s brother gets to see pujols and joc play together. That’s the only thing I like about this. I’ve been rooting for the dodgers to win a World Series and I like joc. I always looked at him as a fan favorite
Price has a no trade clause. This could still fall apart.
According to Cot’s, Price doesn’t have NTC.
Price — who does not have a no-trade clause in his deal — is set to earn $32 million in each of the next three seasons.
He doesn’t have a no trade clause.
Redsox told him Eck will follow him around everywhere if he vetoes
I imagine Price said he would be okay with a deal otherwise rumors about him wouldn’t have gotten this far. Not much of a reason for the Red Sox to shop him only for him to bring up his NTC; would only make sense to ask him if he’s willing to get traded and potential teams he would be willing to waive it for and then start trade negotiations.
Once again: Price doesn’t have NTC. He doesn’t have to be “OK” with anything. He’s going wherever he’s traded.
I mean I didn’t even see your post until after I posted. You’re right, just throwing out the usual logistics of a trade when a NTC is involved. If a guy isn’t waiving his NTC, the wheels barely get going on a trade anyway. Rarely, if ever, do you hear about trade get off the ground if the player doesn’t plan on waiving their NTC.
Or they leverage waiving the NTC for something in return, like a guaranteed option year or extra season tacked on.
Dodgers get a steal. I’m pretty sure renigfo just had a 2 WAR season and has hella control left. Good, versatile defender with pop
(Maury gif) . “and a google search determined…… That was a lie!”
1.6. My bad
s’okay. With WAR being as messy as it is, the difference between 2 and 1.6 is basically nothing.
Rengifo is a good player, super utility type. But I wouldn’t call this a steal for the Dodgers
Fair
Calling Rengifo a “steal” is like getting a refill of soda and calling it a steal.
It is if you didn’t get a soda in the first place, brought your own cup and strolled up to the machine like you were entitled to a refill
Way to stick it to the sugar man Otis!
Good thing angels front office ignored war or we wouldn’t have this exciting trade to talk about. Why trade such a good player with all those years of control for a platoon player that is in final year making 8 million. Angels should fire their front office.
Also had a lot of fielding errors.
@rip mac miller Rengifo is a decent SS, but no room for him on the Angels. The Angels have Swiss army knives in La Stella and Fletcher. Fletcher can play 2B, SS, 3B, OF. La Stella can play 1B, 2B, 3B, and OF. This means little to no playing time for Rengifo. It makes him expendable.
Pederson is a younger slightly better version of Calhoun at least on offensive.
LF Upton
CF Trout
RF Pederson
4th Goodwin
AAA? Adell
Hmm, Something has to give…
I wonder if Eppler thinks Adell won’t be ready for 2020 or maybe a trade for Clevinger is coming soon.
Adell still pretty young. Doesn’t hurt to keep him down, and figure out the rest later. Especially with injuries, etc.
Pretty young, i.e. 20.
I’m praying Upton is who goes.
Same. But not likely.
Upton had a WAR of 3.8 just 2 years ago. He was hurt last year, but he rarely gets hurt. He is one of the most consistent players in baseball, 30HRs, 250-270AVG, 3.5 WAR. He still showed power 12 HRs in 63 games, which is on par with his average. He should be back this year. He will also have Joc hitting behind him for protection.
Upton had a WAR of 3.8 just 2 years ago. He was hurt last year, but he rarely gets hurt. He is one of the most consistent players in baseball, 30HRs, 250-270AVG, 3.5 WAR. He still showed power 12 HRs in 63 games, which is on par with his average. He should be back this year. He will also have Joc hitting behind him for protection.
I hope they keep Upton. However, I am not objective about Upton. I used to love watching him hit bombs with the Diamondbacks, and was livid that Kirk Gibson actively undermined him, followed by Kevin Towers dangling him as trade bait for 2 years before sending him away.
(In Upton’s last year with the Snakes, Gibson publicly criticized him for lack of team spirit. Specifically, he criticized Upton for not lifting weights with others, and taking extra batting practice instead. In that year, Justin Upton had the longest average distance per home run in all of MLB. By a wide margin. So according to Gibby, the massively strong guy with issues making contact should have worked on his strength instead of working on making contact)
DH
The only folks expecting Adell to start in 2020 are the fans. Adell spent only a few weeks in SLC in 2019 and didn’t exactly set it on fire. He still needs to learn more of the craft of playing RF and how to take better routes to the ball, after playing CF for his prior stops in MiLB. He and Marsh will play the corners and build their skills for 2021, when Pederson is FA and Upton begins to learn 1B.
Geo – It’s been widely reported that Adell will be an early call up in 2020, like late April or early May, barring any unfortunate occurrence.
Widely reported, just not by anyone connected with the team. There are scores of Internet oracles who predict all kinds of things.
But Eppler has said on several occasions that Adell needs more reps in SLC because the leg injuries out of ST last year cut his season almost in half, and his time in AAA was just a few weeks, with underwhelming results. It was assumed by some that Kole was allowed to leave to open door for Adell, but that was only that the team wasn’t going to be giving multi year deal to Calhoun. His absence didn’t guarantee Adell would be in his place this year.
Besides, adding Pederson brings needed LH power bat to RH lineup (since LaStella may or may not repeat 2019, and Ohtani hits part time now).
Geo – I presumed the Kole departure was to spend his $14m on pitching. I’m fine with Adell staying in SLC all of 2020. I’d rather see Pederson replace Upton and keep Goodwin in right.
I think Eppler thought that $14M was for pitching too, but…well, we know how that offseason played out. Went to SD for a $280M pitcher, came home with $280M 3B. I do that at Home Depot, sometimes.
Yes, by people with the team and the beat writers. This may push that back to June to avoid the super two tag, but Jo will be up this season and he really has nothing to learn in the minors, especially in the playing on the moon environment in the PCL.
If you saw him play you understand what I mean. This kid is the real deal in every sense.
Upton has averaged 4 WAR per season from 2015-2018 then got hurt in 2019. He is the best option in LF. Last season was the only one Goodwin got over 1 WAR in his career. Pederson had a 3.3 WAR last season in a platoon. This is not even a conversation. Upto, Trout, Pederson with Goodwin and Hermosillo as the 4th and 4th OF until Adell is called up.
I’ve watched Upton play. He’s lazy even when healthy.
It’s insurance against Upton suffering a steep aging decline/needing to let him rest more often because he’s getting older.
Also gives Angels a chance to break Adell in by platooning him when he comes up. Let him get some confidence by facing mostly lefties.
4 WAR. What part of that do you not understand?
Exactly. Goodwin will stick around in case Upton is hurt in 2020 and that gives the RH hitting Adell a chance to platoon with Pederson and rest Upton when he first comes up.
Upton was the 2nd best LF in baseball from 2015-2018. Only Yelich was better. He was injured in 2019 and healthy now..
What does that say about your watching him play?
I haven’t looked at defensive stats on either. After coming down from a spectacular first couple seasons in CF, Pederson has still looked to me like every bit the fielder that Calhoun has been.
Upton is no lock in LF. He has been horrible in 2 of his 3 SoCal seasons. Joc is better in Left.
Adell is the one player they won’t trade, even for Clevinger
Rengifo, the .685 OPS guy? Seriously? Where’s he gonna play? I guess LA really wanted to dump Pederson for just about anybody.
Rengifo was a rookie and has upside as a utility infielder. He was probably going to start the season in AAA.
It just looks like a salary dump for the Dodgers. As you say, Rengifo is a utility infielder at best especially on the Dodgers, who are loaded around the diamond. Meanwhile, Pederson has destroyed righthanders, with a .920 OPS against them last year while mostly playing in pitcher’s parks (LA, SF, SD).
I can understand the business decision for the Dodgers after picking up serious salary with Betts and Price. But it is just a money dump.
Hmmm…the Dodgers just traded for their starting RF. Why would trading Pederson, in his final year of arbitration, be classified as a “salary dump”? How many starts are you going to give Pederson with Mookie on the team?
Why isn’t trading Pederson nothing more than trading a short-term asset for depth?
It never hurts to have a .920 OPS guy against righties (and that figure came mostly in pitcher’s parks). Rengifo is “depth” all right. He’s so deep that he may well start in the minors. And if Lux develops as expected he might stay in the minors.
So the Dodgers unloaded $8-10 million in salary for deep “depth.” This looks like clearing money to me. And I’ll admit it also clears outfield space for Betts, though Pederson could still have picked up a fair number of PAs against northpaws as a leftfielder while Bellinger plays center.
And if Lux sucks… then what?
Now you have a competent short term replacement, who will likely allow them to eventually trade one of Kike or Taylor’s inflated salary
Where did you want Joc to get his 500 at bats? And who else had anything close to similar value in the OF?
Spoiler, no one
Bellinger is their RF
As the MLBTR post points out, the Dodgers are hardly without alternatives at second base: Muncy, Taylor, Hernandez. They would all be ahead of Rengifo on the depth chart at this point. As others have mentioned, Rengifo might not even make the major league roster, at least to start the season.
In a perfect world with no money considerations, the LA oufield against righthanders would be Pederson, Bellinger and Betts left to right. Pollock stunk last year and gets hurt all the time. But the Dodgers have big money tied up in AJ, too. So I guess he’s got to play sometime.
Look, I understand the business involved here. After taking on big money with Betts and Price, and with only one relatively expensive year left with control over Pederson, the dump might have been inevitable. But it is a dump.
With the financial commitment the Dodgers have to Pollock, the amount of AB the Dodgers could give Pederson seem limited, unless Pollock gets injured (not the most unlikely scenario).
With the Angels, Pederson could platoon with Pujols at 1B, since he got some reps there with the Dodgers.
They have bodies. None of those guys are starters, and they have roles within the team already
This is pure Lux backup
No doubt the Dodgers couldn’t dump Pollock’s contract on anybody, unless they ate almost all the money. So it’s a sunk cost for a player who looks to be in steep decline and totes an awful injury history. I do have to wonder how many PAs he will get, though. If Pollock has a bad start – more likely than not, in my view – he may sit no matter what his contract looks like. The Dodgers, even without Pederson, have plenty of alternatives in the outfield. Especially because Bellinger or even Betts would be passable in center.
And I really don’t expect Rengifo to make the major league roster to start the season, unless there’s an enormous number of injuries in the infield.
Lmfao
Pollock had a slow start because he still had metal in his arm from a surgery 5 years ago
It was no new injury, and when he returned, he had an OPS over 850 each month. You sound SO uninformed
I’m informed enough to see Pollock’s bWAR track over the 2017-19 period: 3.1, 2.5 and 0.2. We’re not going in the right direction here for a guy who turns 32 this year. Pollock also gets hurt a lot. He’s averaged 81 games a year for the last four seasons.
So good luck on getting a full productive season out of him in centerfield. Sure, anything could happen, but my guess is that Bellinger ends playing a LOT of center. Which may not be the best thing for the MVP, but the Dodgers will have to make do.
Or Betts plays
Btw, the dodgers want Cody to be in CF or RF. Him or Betts can’t both be in RF
Spoiler: It won’t be pollock In CF. And great, you pick and choose what stats you pretend to care about, depending which is easier to defend. Thanks for letting me know
Look, the stats are what they are. I don’t pick ’em. Pollock’s value has been declining significantly, and he does get hurt a lot. And he turns 32 this year, which is not encouraging.
I really don’t follow your argument. In one post you tell me that Pollock is great and ready to put up an .850 OPS. In the next post you tell me he won’t be in center. Okay, where is he going to play? Left field? Maybe, but even without Pederson the Dodgers have alternatives there. And given the injury history, they BETTER have alternatives for Pollock.
No, streaky CT3 and Mediocre Kike aren’t better than pollock
He’s now a CF in LF, which should only help his stats defensively
And I made nothing up. Look up his month to month. Once healthy he was more productive thaN Joc and playable vs LHP + RHP
You chose a counting stat in a season we have all established was shortened by injury. That’s why it’s foolish bud
Just about every season for Pollock is shortened by injury. It’s just his history. I know you’ll say that I’m cherry-picking stats, but he’s had exactly two years when he’s played more than 113 games. And those years were way back in 2013 and 2015. It’s been one injury after another since then.
Maybe he’ll get suddenly healthy and productive and reverse the steep downward trend over the past four seasons, since his career year in 2015. Or maybe at age 32 he’ll just keep on declining. But the Dodgers better have alternatives to cover for him.
Why are you insisting on multiple years
2019:
April/May- 617 OPS
Then has surgery to remove unnecessary metal in his elbow from 2016 injury, that was hurting him
Returns July
July- 878 OPS
Aug: 921 OPS
Sept: 856 OPS
I have plenty of reason to expect him to be very good when on the field
Just like he’s been every other season he’s been on the field. You do realize posting 3 WARs in 110 games is fairly impressive, no? That’s an 4.5+ win player over a full year
But keep telling me how bad the dodger front office is, please
Tell me how they suck so badly to add Mookie and Price and STILL remain under the luxury tax. Please go ahead
Since when am I saying that the Dodger front office sucks? You’re reading things that I didn’t write. I do say that the trade of Pederson is a salary dump, but that hardly means the front office doesn’t know what they’re doing. They’re clearing some money space for Betts and Price. Well, fine. The Dodgers still have all the talent in the world even without Pederson.
As for Pollock, if he stumbles to another .600 OPS in April and May, he won’t get the chance to recover in the rest of the year. He’ll be on the bench, especially if the Dodgers don’t have a big lead in the division. You’re hanging a lot of hope on a few months, but the injury history and declining production don’t lie. Pollock better get off to a good start or he’s gonna be a fourth outfielder at best, even with his contract. And this assumes he doesn’t get hurt in spring training, always a possibility with this player.
According to the amazing WAR he was a 1.6 in about half a year. And he has upside. So Dodgers just got a 3 war player under control for years to come for 1 year of a platoon guy.
Yeah, Rengifo will be under control for quite a while, especially because I think he’ll do a lot of time in the minors this year. Unless a lot of infielders ahead of him on the depth chart get hurt.
Meanwhile, it looks like the Dodgers are shipping even more talent to the Angels.
Rengifo was going to be in AAA this season because he was not good enough to make the Angels roster. Rengifo will not make the Dodgers 26 man roster either with Seager, Muncy, Hernandez, Taylor, and Lux in the middle infield. He will be headed to Oklahoma City.
So the Dodgers got a AAA player for an $8 million platoon OF that they had no room for.
Seems light…am I wrong?
Yes
So Dodgers get Betts, an MVP caliber player, and Price, a solid No 3 starter for Joc, Maeda and Verdugo. What a steal for the Dodgers. They basically just swapped Joc and Verdugo for Betts in their outfield and rice for Maeda in the rotation. So they upgraded for 2020 to win a title… Besides that, how in the world did they get the Twins to give up one of their top prospects for Maeda? Sure he will likely be a solid No 3/4 starter for the Twins but not at the price of Graterol IMO… For Red Sox I like the deal. Two young all-star caliber, controllable pieces in Graterol and Verdugo and getting rid of Price’s contract. Not bad.
The Twins are going all out to win figuring that the vet Maeda will produce more than Graterol. Good deal for the Red Sox.
Stretch… Rice for Maeda? Dats Rayyycist.
Yuli, quit posting about Asians.
Yes, Maeda is that solid No. 3/4, who comes to a club that has trouble attracting free agents with four years of control at a fixed base salary of $3MM each of the next four seasons.
That amount of control and Maeda’s incentive-laden deal probably factored heavily in the Twins’ decision to join in.
Not bad
Not good either.
i wonder why for the angels!
Because!
LHB for the lineup. Goodwin is LHB also, but Angels are heavily RH (Trout, Rendon, Upton, Fletcher, Pujols, etc). LaStella and Ohtani are not going to be in the lineup 7 days a week.
Because they’re pitching is set and really good, and they don’t have a great OF prospect that’s almost ready…
Joc is a much needed lefty bat.
Maybe Adell won’t be ready for 2020??
Maybe a trade chip??
Since Pederson is FA after this season, he hardly makes Adell a “trade chip”. Adell needs more time in SLC. Now the 2020 OF is Upton/Trout/Pederson with Goodwin as 4th, and Marsh and Adell can focus on learning.
Bad move LA! Happy for Trout!
Uhmm, which LA?
Dodgers and the 36 home runs! Kid was fun to watch in the Home Run Derby in Cincinnati!
Halo Clown will read this and be completely lost, just like your clown car organization.
Dude what? Whats wrong with you.
He is a troll. Ignore him.
I do not understand this trade. Can some one please explain in depth why dodgers let Joc go for a underperforming infielder. Are angels eating some of price contract for Joc?
That underperforming infielder was a rookie who, if you look at his OBP, showed plate discipline. That’s why the Dodgers acquired him. He draws walks and has his 5 more years of arbitration to figure out the rest.
He will have more years than that since he will be in AAA this season for the Dodgers just like he would have been for the Angels.
Rengifo struck out 26% of the time last season and his OBP was just .321. He really did not have good plate discipline.
The guy that will start at 2B for us this season Fletcher struck out just 10.7% ofth time and had a .350 OBP. That is good late discipline. ,
In depth? You mean like this paragraph you glossed over…
“Between the cash the Red Sox are sending to cover some of Price’s contract, the subtraction of Maeda and now the subtraction of Pederson’s final arbitration salary, it seems likely that the Dodgers will have managed to stay beneath the luxury tax threshold.”
Maeda was making $3.12 million. Even with the trade of Pederson, the dodgers are still over $210 million. The luxury tax threshold is $208 million.
$3 million under now after dealing Stripling.
Stripling only makes $2.1 million and the amount coming from the Red Sox to offset Price’s contract has not been officially announced.
Pederson a FA next year and dumping salary..
Yeah because adding 60M in payroll is neutralized if you trade one guy making less than 10M
The most significant impact of that $60MM could be if shedding Pederson’s $8MM keeps the Dodgers below the luxury tax threshold.
Betts > Pederson (and he’s a righty)
Price >= Maeda (maybe equal, but I like Maeda)
Rengifo <<<<<< Verdugo
SO why did the Dodgers do this? I mean you have Betts for one year (like Pederson). Price may only have a good season or two left. Verdugo has years of control for a terrific player. So why?
Because Betts is a top 3 player in the league. He’s a huge difference maker, even though it’s only a yr
Mainly for Betts. Also, Joc wants 10 million and the Dodgers rightly didn’t want to pay him that and sent him to Los Anaheim where Arte Moreno loves his fielders and cheap pitching
I wonder if either the Dodgers or Halos have another move up their sleeve though. More toward the Halos cause they need pitching, so I wonder if a trade is in the works for a Cleveland arm.
Because the gap between Betts and Pederson is greater than the gap between Verdugo and Rengifo (currently, Verdugo could potentially become much better)
Verdugo average, easy to find these guys. Betts super star hard to find.
Yeah all 23 year olds come up from the minors, hits over 300, shows elite bat control and is an elite RF
Just look at Clint Frazier! Oh, wait. That’s wrong!?
Not enough power. Doesn’t walk enough. Teams aren’t worrying about batting average. He is a major leaguer and a good one. But it’s for Mookie Betts! Dodgers can find another .300 20 hr guy but for now they got a top 5 player or better and are going for the championship oh and they upgraded at starting pitcher.
@Rangers29 You should know MVPs do not grow on trees. Put Betts at leadoff of any lineup and that team is instantly better. Not to mention outstanding defense. The only question mark is how will Betts do away from Fenway which is tailor made for a player like Betts.
@Rangers29 You should know MVPs do not grow on trees. Put Betts at leadoff of any lineup and that team is instantly better. Not to mention outstanding defense. The only question mark is how will Betts do away from Fenway which is tailor made for a player like Betts.
Beaty, C Taylor, and Kike do not impress me Dodger fans.
Hope they impress the Oklahoma crowd
BPrice.. The Dodgers don’t care if you are impressed.
Aren’t they bench guys? Pretty good ones actually.
This is a great move for Boston. They weren’t ahead of the Yankees and Ray’s anyway. They get a strong return AND reset their tax. Plus they can pay market rate for Betts next year instead of the typical hometown overpay. This might even get JD to take the opt out. Very good move towards next year for Boston
Would have liked to get Gray or Gonsolin but like the potential in Verdugo and Graterol
I don’t really understand this deal… the “more to come” better include more players, otherwise the Braves could have saved themselves a lot of time getting Joc over Ozuna. All I can think of at this point is the dodgers trying to shed a tiny bit of contract but even then…. that’s reach. Just seems like a good ole fashion bad deal as of right now. “More to come…”
Its just money the Dodgers have Mookie Belli Polock in the OF already-
Angels did great to pounce though, other teams should have seeen a great opp to get Joc on the cheap for a year if they wanted him
I mean it takes two teams to make a trade. For all we know, the Braves might not have even wanted Pederson or the Dodgers might not have been interested in what the Braves might have been willing to offer. Ozuna also comes with a higher ceiling than Pederson. Ozuna at least could be an everyday player while Pederson is pretty much a platoon player.
But the timing wasn’t right. It sucks but this is something that came together suddenly. No use crying over spilt milk
I would rather have Vernon wells and Hideki Matsui
Typical Angels. Good thing they have great pitching. Oh wait…
Pederson being traded really isn’t as questionable as some of you are making it out to be. Pederson is the odd man out in the outfield (Pollock, Bellinger, and Betts are their everyday outfielders), is a year away from free agency, and moving his arbitration salary frees up a little extra cap space to take on Betts plus whatever is left from Price’s contract. Sure the return isn’t flashy but its not like Pederson should be bringing back a haul. He’s a platoon corner outfielder which are a dime a dozen. Sure he’s got good pop in his bat, but that’s about it. I imagine the Dodgers were shopping Pederson for a while now, in anticipation of a potential Betts trade, and its likely there weren’t better offers.
All timing, sure we coulda gotten more 2 months ago but I do like Renigfro as a 26th man
Angels did a great job to pounce though, thats what you should be doing when your the “3rd “team or offset trade team in these deals
Exactly. If this was done earlier in the offseason, more teams likely would’ve been interested in Pederson.
Also to boot, hasn’t Pederson’s name been in trade rumors for a while now (and not just this offseason)? If so, either the offers weren’t that good in the Dodgers’ eyes or they were worried about replacing his production and wanted something else lined up first (which goes back to your point about timing).
Yup but we were never going to si re-sign Joc so 5 years of Renigfro with 2 options is probably better for us than 1 year of 300-400 abs of Joc —
I actually liked what I saw From Renigfro last year
Thats with/out even looking at the money side
pollock wont stay healthy…bad signing
Bad signing for sure, but one of those handful of “clever” deals that Friedman made and has consistently cleared roster space and ABs to defend.
Dang…22 yr-old Rengifo’s fourth team
Can he pitch?
good deal for LAD. Joc is nice but replaceable. Dodgers have a lot of MIF depth, but this lowers their tax and gives them a young controllable guy with a diverse offensive profile.
Pederson was always going to be traded this off-season. His fate was sealed when LA signed AJ Pollack last off-season. He’d have been allowed to walk after the year even if Betts never came onboard. The return for Pederson is my only issue, as it looks like a utility IF type, and LA already has a couple of those guys on the roster. Frankly, I do not see a spot for Rengifo ON the roster. I believe he has two more option years, so it is entirely possible that he opens the season in AAA, if not moved elsewhere in yet another deal.
Yeah, Rengifo starts the year in AAA, comes up for a run of games in June, and then either shuttles up and down until September or sticks should Kiké, Chris Taylor, and/or Muncy either underperformed or are lost for whatever reason.
I was confused about them getting someone with MLB service time back in the deal as well with how deep they already are. Seems like they don’t really have space for him on the roster, but like you mentioned at least he has options so they can stash him in AAA as a reserve if necessary.
Pederson has always been the big side of a platoon. Pollock has not played a full season in years. He was never an impediment to the Dodgers keeping Pederson.
Picking up Betts is. Betts will play every day. They had no room for Pederson and since he was not going to be cheap they got a guy that will probably never be back in the majors.
Plenty of room for Pederson at LF. They lose two good left handed outfield bats. I would have tried really hard to trade Pollock and package him with a prospect if salary was an issue. If there really was no trade market for Pederson why not just keep him at LF and platoon him with either Kike or CT3? Even if he walks next season you get another year. Can’t deny that he has been very productive when he doesn’t have to face lefties. Not a good move by the Dodgers.
Another year, another attempt to play “keep away” by the MLB. LA and the Yankees get gifted with these stupid trades all the time. I hope Betts leaves LA during free agency. He’ll be in a White Sox uni just when they’re ready to put foot to @$$ and win their first World Series.
*first of two consecutive World Series championships
Do you honestly think the White Sox will give a 4 hundred million dollar contract to anybody? 3 hundred million? 2 hundred million? 1 hundred million?
I mean the White Sox probably made an offer and Boston turned it down. I don’t think its a coincidence that the Padres and Dodgers were the reported front runners; its gets Betts out of the AL.
Your posts are so consistently off the wall that I need to know what you are smoking? None of the Maui Wowee I grew up with is strong enough to make you that stoned.
I wonder if the Angels asked about Maeda before agreeing to trade for Pederson?
I’m not denying Pedersons value. He might be baseballs best platoon partner vs right handed pitching but the Angels needed Maeda more than Pederson. I realize that Maeda may not have been an option as he was used to bring the Twins in on the Betts-Verdugo trade but I can’t help but wonder a little.
LAD prolly asked for Adell or something similar for Maeda. I mean, look what he got from the Twins…
Well..come to think about it they probably did but that’s really because other than Adell, the Angels don’t have a lot of talent in the farm. Not saying that’s a trade the Angels should habe made. Maeda is just not good enough to get Adell. The only kind of player Adell should be traded for is a genuine ace and I don’t know that one is available. Even then I am pretty sure Angels fans would still be loathe to do it.
The Angels have 4 prospects in Fangraphs top 100, so yeah, all they have is Adell
LOL. LMAO. LMFAO. ROTFLMAO. Thank you for the good laugh. Made my night.
According to mlb.com Adell is their only top 100 prospect.
@Good Guys, mlb.com has Adell at #6 and Marsh at #79,
What else is brewing?
Dodgers might turn around and include Lux in a deal for Lindor, since they have Downs and now Rengifo. Just a thought
Love Joc but his market is limited and his price tag was at a point where he wasn’t cheap
Betts and Bellinger will start 150+ games, and will stay in all game. Same couldn’t be said if they went Bellinger….Verdugo+Joc+Pollock+ Kike+ Taylor.. only Cody was good enough to stay in all game every game in 2019
So Pollock/Kike/Taylor now have LF, how can you use 4 guys in one spot? Just not enough at bats with 2 650+ AB OFers.. who are also MVPs
This guy is gonna be stashed in AAA and serve as depth if Lux struggles. He has decent potential to become a starter, and even with an 84 OPS+, he had 1.6 bwar. LA specializes in fixing hitters, and make him even a league average bat, he’s a nice bench piece
Don’t forget about Matt Beaty…he’ll get plenty of time in LF this year against RH starters
Lol. I don’t think you watch the Dodgers much. CT is a natural as and plays the IF as much or more then the OF. Hernandez also a 50/50 IF/OF player
Just because they can play doesn’t mean they should
I watch every dodger game so pump your brakes Einstein
CT is a SS by trait so yeah, he can play 2B. And he could also go 0-22 with 22 straight Ks at times. He’s no regular on an elite team
Kike is less of a starter than ct3. The only teams they’d start on are cellar dwellers
@Commonsense $8M for a 3.3 War is very reasonable. Most GMs would love to have 3.3 War for $8M.
It is amazing to see the team the Dodgers have assembled and still be below the luxury tax.
@Commonsense $8M for a 3.3 War is very reasonable. Most GMs would love to have 3.3 War for $8M.
It is amazing to see the team the Dodgers have assembled and still be below the luxury tax.
Now I’m waiting to see the other shoe drop. Are the Angels shoring up RF before moving Adell for starting pitching?
We just got a one year rental in RF that is about 2 wins better than what we had from Calhoun and kept Adell. Now Adell can come up in mid-June unless there is an injury and we gain another year of control before he hits both arbitration and free agency. Adell can move to RF next season.
I hope the Angels can flip Pederson for a decent pitcher.
Yeah cause the Dodgers sure didn’t try to do that before settling on this trade
Nah the front office is lazy, remember!?!?
I really like Rengifo, no doubt the Dodgers will make him a star in 2-3 years. I want to see Adell and Marsh in the outfield soon, not traded away cause too many outfielders.
Rengifo does not have any plus tools. He would not have made the 26 man roster for the Angels. He was Salt Lake bound.
It sounds better when you put it that way lol, Just seems that these trades always backfire for the halos.
You will have hot- and cold-running Marsh and Adell in 2021. Just give them the space to develop this season in AAA. Marsh and Adell are both 22-ish, and the average age of AAA players is something like 28.They’re going to learn as they play in SLC.
Chris Taylor had no tools when the Mariners traded him.
Chris Taylor had a plus bat. He hit .322/.397/.474/.870 in AAA in 2016 and ..314/.401/.455/.856 in the minors for the Mariners.
What he didn’t have is a clear path to the majors with Cano at 2B, Seager at 3B, and Ketel Marte ahead of him on the depth chart at SS.
Not always… the LAAoA did initial acquire Rengifo for non-tender candidate C.J. Cron.
Beautiful. Pederson is a rental that will not block Adell, but is a big improvement right now over what Calhoun produced last season. .
Angels just moved into wild card contention by picking up Pederson for guy that would not have played at all in the majors this season.
Upton, Trout, Pederson, Rendon, Simmons, Fletcher, Pujols, Castro, Ohtani (DH). That is a playoff lineup.
La Stella, Stassi, Goodwin, and Hermosillo on the bench with Adell coming soon.
But a last place starting rotation.
You funny brah. We already got at least 6 wins better in our rotation than we were last season and we are adding a MLB starting pitcher in this trade.
Great trade for the Angels! This may move them past Texas for third place in the division.
We move into contention I guess with this move. Still not favorites for the second spot tho. The staff and pen are shaking out to be rough once again.
We move into contention I guess with this move. Still not favorites for the second spot tho. The staff and pen are shaking out to be rough once again.
This is developing. im gonna hit the bong and see what mid level pitcher we dragged in for Marsh.
Fabian Ardaya
@FabianArdaya
·
11m
The Angels aren’t giving up any of their top prospects (Adell, Marsh, Jackson, etc.) in the deal, source said. Players still being informed.
Whew, good to hear that tonight instead of dreading the news for 2 days
Just a fought maybe another Infielder from Angel’s or Ruiz to be Angels future Catcher.
Oh, just saw the tweet that there may be more players involved in the Angels-Dodgers deal. So it may not be a pure money dump for the Dodgers. Though getting Pederson’s 2020 salary off the books had to be a major consideration after the pickup of Betts and Price.
This just gets better and better.
Ross Stripling also heading to Angles
Urias,Gooslin maybe.
Just Ross Stripling
This is a great move for both teams, depending on who the other players are.
Rengifo was blocked by Fletcher and not a long term answer for any infield position in the coming years. Joc can take over RF or platoon with Upton to form an excellent LF battery.
Dodgers clear salary and at bats for the 5 other LFs on the team, and get a decent utility guy should they decide to non-tender Kike next year.
Angels get a big league Starter? Could it be Stripling?
That’s my guessing , maybe somehow they could get Clevengier
Clevinger ain’t going nowhere. Now, this Clevengier fellow, whoever that is, might be available.
It must be Stripling. The only name that makes sense here. Unless they’re counting Caleb Ferguson or Dennis Santana as a “major league starter” which is doubtful.
Julio Urias?
Be smarter. Urias?
I sure hope that it is Alex Wood or Jimmy Nelson instead of Ross Stripling, but Stripling seems more likely.
Manny Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez and Mookie Betts. Lotta former Red Sox goin’ to Chavez Ravine.
Can’t trade a just signed guy til June I believe without their consent
It’s not gonna be the reclamation project LAA coulda just signed lol
Mike Trout is going to finish his career with a grand total of 3 playoff games.
Angels homers think they can win without pitching.
They will score runs , but they do need pitching. They also have Ohtani coming back but I would still want them to get another pitcher.
We have pitching. We got 6 wins better on the starting staff this year NOT including Ohtani returning to the rotation and now the Dodgers are sending us another MLB starter.
Angels have had a nice off-season. Bonus is you could flip some players this year if you’re out of it at the deadline. After the Pujols contract in a couple years you’ll be in decent position.
The Angels have made a profit every single year since the Pujols signing, even in the years they were stuck with Josh Hamilton’s horrible contract plus other biggies. They’ve never been hamstrung by lack of money. Just lack of judgement.
So the Angels lost 90 games last year and now they will lose only 84.
We’ve added 2 already and one more in this deal and Ohtani is technically added back. That’s 4 starters plus this deal looks like it is opening up trade options. This team has the offense and defense to compete, healthy starters and inning eaters and they will be competitive. So much Angels hate and false narratives still going around. They are active spending and trading and improving the team but the haters just want to concentrate on pitching, when they’ve been healing injuries, drafting, signing, and trading for it.
Seriously, they have drafted a total of 57 pitchers in the last 2 years, while the haters scream “They don’t care about pitching!”
Meanwhile Baseball America did a very complimentary article a few months ago about the good young pitchers the Angels have brought in through international signings. It’s going to take a few years but the pipeline is getting better
Billy has been great at picking up pitching through the draft and international free agency. In the last 3 drafts 45 of the first 60 picks have been pitchers. 17 in 2019, 15 in 2018 and 13 in 2017.
He drafted Canning in the 2nd round in 2017 and also signed Ohtani. There are no pitchers that have produced more from the draft or international signings since the 2017 draft.
Goodwin and Suarez to someone like the Pirates for Archer? Peterson is a upgrade over Goodwin. Suarez is a young starting pitcher the Pirates and the Pirates needing a center fielder with control. It might be a good trade for both teams.
Archer under Joe Maddon & Callway for the pitching coach, he would be back to his ace form when he was with tampa bay.
I think Archer is Humpty Dumpty at this point, since he was on a downward trajectory when the Rays traded him to Pittsburgh. Walks increasing each year, while his ERA+ is dropping annually, as well as the number of IP per season. He hasn’t been “Chris Archer” since 2015.
Why? Who does he knock out of the rotation? Not worth trading anything for a rental who had a 5.19 ERA and was injured half of last season.
Chris Archer isn’t a rental.
Chris Archer has one year guaranteed with a $250k buyout on his $11 million option in 2021. He is a rental.
If a player has a club option for the following season, he is not a rental. Heck, 2o20 was a club option for him too. It was already exercised earlier this offseason.
Archer would give the Angels an option for when Heaney gets injured again. Ohtani will not start the season as part of the rotation. It will also allow Sandoval more time to work on his control of his secondary pitches.
We don’t know that Ohtani won’t start the season in the rotation and even if he doesn’t he will still get 140 IP.
Archer is declining quickly and his 2019 season was both injury plagued and just plain awful. How awful? Sandoval and Bundy were better.
So why even bother trading for Archer when we will get a starter in this trade that can eat up innings Ohtani doesn’t pitch and when our #5 and #6 starters were better last year?
Imagine thinking the Pirates would do that.
Soriano to LAD to complete this thing?
Love this trade for the angels. Wouldn’t bet on them for the playoffs but if out of it at deadline can flip Pederson for equal value as they have up for him. And can’t go wrong with a young prospect with power already. Dodgers cut salary.
This makes no sense. Eppler better be on the phone with Cleveland trying to trade for Clevinger.
Eppler has to be hands down the worst GM I’ve seen with the Angels
What the hell is he going to trade for Clevinger? Jo Adell? If not him, how the hell is he going to get it done? Griffin Canning + a slew of your other non Adell top prospects?
That’s a really hard target for this Angels team to get.
Joe Adell
Tiny Reagins says hi
Tony Reagins > Billy Eppler
Jerry Dipsnot says hi. Dipsnot lost every trade he made with the Angels, except the Hank Conger trade.
Dipoto says hi as well
ESPN really beefing up its analytics department with Kiley McDaniel on staff.
If I’m not mistaken Joc’s brother who has Down syndrome is a huge Albert Pujols fan.
Yep. And they have a legitimate friendship that formed over it, Joc and Albert. Iirc, Albert has a daughter with Down syndrome
Def one of the cool sub-plots Of this deal
Pujols gives a s*** ton of money to Champ Pederson’s foundation. Pujols is also huge in the Down syndrome community as he consistently holds events to raise money and spread awareness.
Alberts personal charity is also for Down syndrome
A smart help each team need move could be for The Angels to flip Joc to The Mets for Steven Matz. Angels gets an upside arm who is familiar with their pitching coach and Joc could solve Mets CF need and allow Nimmo to stay in right. Could mess up the Mets pitching depth but I hear Bartolo Colon still wants to pitch.
Lol good luck with that
If the Mets would have given Matz for Joc, it’d be some long before this would
Ohtani, Teheran, Heaney, Canning, Bundy, Sandoval. That is a good rotation. Now we add another MLB starter. Even if Ohtani only throws 120-150 innings and Heaney gets hurt again we still have MLB depth and several good young pitchers that really should have been in the minors getting more seasoning last year.
The incoming guys, not including Ohtani, have an ERA that is 3 points less than the guys that pitched those starts for us last season. People need to remember that when the Angels picked up Ohtani he was considered to be an Ace and he showed he had that kind of stuff before being injured.
No one with half a brain can say we don’t have pitching.
People are forgetting we are getting +5-7 wins alone not having Ausmus as manager. Dude is the worst at managing a staff. probably give us another 5 with Maddon as manager on top of not having Ausmus as manager. That’s 10 to 12 right there. Ohtani comes back as the real deal on the bump that’s anywhere from 3 to 7 right there. Not putting much stock into Rendon outright winning games for us, but I’ll give him 3 to 4. A couple breaks and we are 88 to 95 win team.
It’s not a good rotation, it’s mediocre at best. Is it better than what we had in 2019? Yes, but that isn’t saying much. Still not good enough to put us ahead of Oakland or Houston.
Ohtani is an Ace. He may only get 25 starts, but he is an Ace. Teheran is a solid #2. 3.81 ERA. 170+ IP. Bundy is a solid back of the rotation innings eater. 160-170 IP and with Callaway and Maddon I think he will improve. He will get better just from going from Baltimore’s ballpark to the Big A and playing in AL West parks instead of the AL East..
Last season we got 68 starts and a 7.05 ERA from Cahill, Harvey, Suarez, Barria, Peters, and Stratton that will be replaced by Teheran and Bundy and their 4.40 ERA.
Then we get Ohtani to replace 25 or so starts that were made by others.
Canning and Heaney are healthy.
Then we add another starter from the Dodgers.
We just went from a starting rotation with an ERA of 5.64 to one that will be closer to 4.25 or 4.30. That is better than average.
No way to honestly say that is not good.
Your obvious bias is showing…
Bundy’s generally been good the first two times through the lineup and then falls apart the third time through. This makes me think it’s more a strategy issue than a stuff issue. If he can figure that out, you might have Arrieta 2.0 on your hands.
I watched him pitch a great game against Tampa on Star Wars day last year and thought maybe he was turning a corner but then he followed it up by losing 7 of his next 9. It will be interesting to see if he can put it all together in Anaheim.
Clayton, the same is true for Odororizi. There are a dozen studs that go more than six innings, but the days of 7 inning pitches are over. Did anyone average seven+ innings last year? If so, I bet you can count them on one hand.
One big positive is that people are no longer advocating that the Angels should try to catch Matthew Boyd as he falls off a cliff
Ohtani hasn’t thrown a pitch coming on two years. Can’t imagine him being recommended for even 100 innings this season.
My obvious knowledge of baseball is showing.
No one who knows about baseball feels the need to say things like “My obvious knowledge of baseball is showing.”
Your obvious lack of knowledge is showing.
You are a child.
It’s not a “good’ rotation, it’s a rotation with “good” upside.
I don’t believe any Angel fan thinks the Angels will win without some of that upside showing itself. However there are so many non-Angel fans who have so little knowledge of this team, they don’t realize these pitchers do have upside.
“No way to say that is not good”
Very easy way to say that is not good. Koamalu has the rose colored glasses on. Your “ace” is coming off major surgery and only has 50 innings of big league pitching to his name. Heaney is never healthy. Bundy is a #5. Canning is a top prospect but we don’t know what he’s going to deliver. He was pretty decent last year but if he gives you that again, that’s nothing to write home about. Teheran is Teheran. We’ll see how that works shifting over to the AL.
That rotation could be “good” or it might not be any good. It’s “good” in comparison to what you got last year but that doesn’t actually make it good. Bundy, Heaney, and Canning could improve but it’s certainly not a given.
“That rotation could be “good” or it might not be any good”
That’s all I really ask people to understand. There is potential. Potential is just that, potential.
Ohtani showed Ace stuff as a rookie He is just that good No one expects him to make 33 starts, but 20-25 from him is better than anyone we had last season.
Teheran was a #2 starter last season. 3.81 ERA in a year that MLB average was 4.54 ERA. Since becoming a starter in 2013, his career ERA is 3.64 in a time frame where MLB average was 4.27.
Heaney made 30 starts in 2018. So he is obviously sometimes healthy and when he is, he is very good. Well above average.
Canning was a ROOKIE last year and was above average.
Bundy provides innings. More innings than any Angels starter last season. Yes, he is a #5. No problem. No team has five #1 and #2 starters. Compare Bundy and his 4.79 ERA to the rest of the #5 starters in the league. How does he compare?
Then we have depth. Stripling if this trade goes through. Sandoval. Peters.
This is an above average starting rotation after having the worst in the AL last year.
It’s a good rotation as is. No improvement by anyone. 4 of the 5 starters can be expected to be above average based on past performance,
If we see improvement from Canning and Sandoval who were rookies last year or from Bundy who pitched for the Orioles who have stunk for years and in Camden Yards and the AL East as opposed to the Big A and the parks in the AL West. Then we go from above average to very good.
We are going to win lots of games just because we outscore the other team. We will win some because we have an above average pitching staff.
Its an above average rotation. Above average is good. Below average is bad.
It has the upside of being very good. That will depend on how many starts Ohtani makes and if Heaney is healthy.
Even if Ohtani only makes 20 starts and Heaney is hurt again, it is still a good rotation.
No one has said its a great rotation. Its not the Nationals or the 2019 Astros.
You don’t have quality pitching. There is a difference. Ohtani is not an ace. First, he’s not going to give you 200+ innings that a true ace would. Second, he still has to prove himself AND he’s coming off TJS. Teheran, a #2? Yeah, if your rotation is crap, sure he is.
Ohtani, Stripling, Heaney, Teheran, Bundy. That’s a pretty meh rotation.
You don’t think Ohtani and Heaney and Canning are quality? Add Stripping to that, and it’s big upside. Upside is always questionable regarding pitching, especially considering health, but if you don’t know they have very good stuff, that’s on you. You haven’t done your research.
Ohtani definitely has considerable upside, but he’s certainly not an ace right now. Heaney and Canning? Yeah, upside is limited on those two. Stripling is a nice piece but none of these guys outside of Ohtani have ace upside. They’re more middle-of-the=rotation at best. I would love to hear more about the “very good stuff” these guys possess, please enlighten me.
No one is an ace. Yet.
As far a ‘upside”. I think it’s huge for Heaney. He just can’t stay healthy, The pitchers who have the peripherals of Heaney are literally the best pitchers in baseball. I think you are selling him short.
Canning is a middle of the rotation starter, Unlike Heaney, his peripherals they are just very good.
I don’t expect Twins fans (for example) delving into Angel pitcher. But when you delve into the Angels pitching, there is a lot of upside. Which of course guarantees nothing.
There is potential there. Working with Mickey Callaway could be a huge benefit as well. Definitely some things to be optimistic about but there’s a lot of question marks. If everything goes right it could be a very good rotation.
I’m sorry, I just don’t see this vast upside that you are speaking of. Ohtani? Yes, absolutely. I was disappointed greatly when he didn’t sign with the Yankees.
Regarding Heaney, his peripherals are solid, but I don’t see otherworldly numbers from him. 1.25 career WHIP, 9 k/9, and a bloated HR rate(1.6/9).
Not sure why I should even try to explain the obvious to you, but here goes anyway.
Last season middle of the rotation starter meant 121.2 IP and an ERA of 4.54.
No tell me again that Canning, Heaney, Teheran, and Stripling are middle of the rotation starters so I can have a good laugh.
Nope. Those guys are all aces!
3.81 ERA in a season where AVERAGE, or a #3 starter, was 4.54 ERA. 3.64 ERA in a time frame where average was a 4.27 ERA. Yes, Teheran is a #2 starter. . Not even a question about that for knowledgeable fans.
You can think whatever you want. I will go with the stats.
Haha. Right, and his FIP was 4.66, WHIP 1.32, and his K/9 – 8.3 and BB/9 – 4.3.
Teheran is a bonafide stud #2 starter who had to settle for a 1-year/$9 million dollar deal. The Angels are brilliant! How do they do it?!?!
In reality, Teheran is a back-end starter.
Have to totally agree with Rivera42 on this and Using stats .
When you look at the NL teams broken down by era ( cant use AL with a DH after all Teheran was with a NL team )
Top 5 Teams
#2 Starter ERA 3.30, # 3 Starter Era 3.71
Avg Team ( Middle 5 teams )
#2 Starter ERA 3.71 #3 Starter 3.81
Now when you factor in his FIP-4.66 and XFIP-5.26 and his Whip-K-BB Rate-Ground ball rate- Hr Allowed you are looking at a # 4 starter on an average team at best.
On a bottom 5 team he possibly could be considered a # 2-3 starter. However all his non-era stats point to a back end starter on a decent staff
Games are not won by FIP. They are won and lost by how many players cross the plate.
Every single season Teheran has a much lower ERA than FIP. That tells you all you need to know about FIP’s value in measuring performance.
Teheran is a #2 starter based on results.
If you want to go with league average vs Teheran’s ERA.
4.33 vs 3.81 last season.
4.21 vs 3.64 2013-2019
This is not difficult to see that Teheran is better than average.
Average is a #3 starter.
Better than a #3 starter is a #2 starter.
The top 5 teams gives us no relevant data. ALL teams = relevant data.
Since Teheran has outperformed his FIP every single season from 2013-2019 that makes FIP totally useless in measuring his performance.
You don’t win games by your FIP, you win games based on how many runs cross the plate.
Since FIP has proven useless every single season and since his ERA is that much better than average for the league and for MLB he is a #2 starter.
I guess you cant read very well when you are stuck in your own fantasies. 2019- this past season in the NL ( you cant use stats or as you so frequently like to use the term average from AL teams that will distort the outcome due to the DH ) on a middle 5 team (aka average ) team # 3 starter has an ERA of 3.81 same as you know who . You are comparing apples to oranges to apples by lumping in every pitcher in baseball then averaging their ERA and saying anyone above that average is a # 2 . Anyhow would seem your expertise seems to live in your own mind and your ability to twist facts to suit your assumptions. Lets get together again after the season and see if Teheran pitched like a # 2 on an AL team .
Some additional info- Rotographs has him raked as the 95th best starting pitcher that sir is a # 3 on the very worse staff in all of baseball league . In addition all the projections has his era between 4.42-5.29 . Face reality he is a #4 at best on an above average staff. As another reader has stated how can you explain the $9 mil x 1 yr contract if he is a solid # 2 on a above average staff. But then i guess your vaunted baseball expertise means you know more then every GM in baseball .
A Pederson started 19 games last year at 1b. Wondering if he could become the Angels future starter there if his contract is extended .
I was hoping they would give Adell a full season at AAA and go out and sign Puig, this is a better move.
There’s a reason it was only 19 games.
He was not very good
Joc was awful at 1B and he was nothing special in the OF. The Angels are acquiring him for his bat (vs RHP)
Joc Pederson sucked playing 1st Base for Dodgers ! He could not catch balls there! I liked him but glad he’s gone! Go Dodgers!
Pederson was bad, forced to learn 1B on the fly so the GM’s favorite Pollock would continue to have his undeserved long-term home in the OF.
Pederson was excellent Defensively his first couple years in CF. May not be the same defensive player he had been but still has the physical talents and defensive track record to suggest he’ll be good in RF or LF.
Pederson can’t hit LHP. He will be the big side of a platoon in RF and then he will move on to make room for Adell.
Adell will be up by mid-June at the latest.
Red Sox could go and sign Puig for one year and $5 million now. LOL
Once again the Angels continue to address and fix problems that don’t exist.
The very last thing they needed was a platoon OF.
NOW more than ever, please trade Joe Adel for NOAH Syndergaard! It can make both BOZO FO’s look like they know what their doing and solve actual existing issues!
Winter Meetings 2.0
Looking like a huge win for the angels. Not sure what the dodgers are doing…..
We don’t know yet which prospects the Angels are including in the deal. Supposedly two of them.
Strange how the Dodger’s went from cautious to reckless. They get a one year “rent-a-player” stud, along with a 96 million, 34 year old has been pitcher that has had health issues as of late. Then you ship out Maeda along with controllable low cost players like Peterson and Verdugo. I don’t see how the Dodgers got way better as a team. On paper they look like the 2021 up and coming world champions but what happens if Price becomes a burden who makes 30+ mil a year for the next three years and then Betts signs some where else in 2021?
Price won’t be making $30m/yr. Peterson is not controllable – he is a FA after this season.
iknow. Joc is a free agent after this season and is being paid $8,000,000. Stripling is a #7 starter on the Dodgers, and the Red Sox are paying 60% of Price’s remaining salary. Everything you wrote is incorrect.
No one knows the actual number the Red Sox are paying. We only know that the max is $48 million of $96 million or half.
Stripling was 6th on the depth chart before the Betts/Price trade. He would have been 6th after the trade too.
The Angels are reportedly obtaining Joc Pederson, Andy Pages and Ross Stripling. The Dodgers are getting Luis Rengifo and an Angels minor leaguer. The Dodgers did this to offset the cost of picking up Mookie Betts and David Price and also to remain under the luxury tax line. Apparently, Pollock is safe for now.
I would not like Ross thrown in there, but he often seems overlooked in LA.
I also really like Stripling, but he needs to start regularly. With May and Gonsolin ready to step up, along with Urias and Wood, something had to give. I wish the Angels had signed Wood prior to these trades and the Dodgers were able to keep Stripling. After his career is over, and even with his stock broker degree, I think Stripling is a future broadcaster, and a really good one at that.
Joc got fuQeed
Pages is Cuban signed out of DR.
Regardless of salary, the trade seems lopsided.
Getting the Dodgers under the threshold is a big deal. The Angels took on eight to nine million in salary.
If joc wins his arbitration case and the pitcher is stripling, then the salary ends up around 11 million going to Anaheim. It’ll be interesting to see who else is in the trade.
$10 million if he wins.
I read that Joc submitted 9.5 so added to the 2.1 Stripling is making would come out to 11.6. Not really a big difference either way, but that’s what’s been reported. Do the Angels get to submit a new number? I’m not sure how that works, but the Dodgers submitted 7.75 so then it’d come out to about 10
The trade isn’t final so the Dodgers offered 7.75 and Pederson 9.5 million in the arbitration hearing today
I can already picture Billy either getting calls or making calls about Adell or Joc.
There may be a follow up trade after this involving any of’em for an established starter or a MLB-ready pitching prospect.
Getting calls about Adell? Every day for the last year. Making calls about Adell? Never.
Twelve hours since the last update. About five thousand presses of F5. WHAT’S GOING ON???
Dude, if you have seriously been refreshing that much, maybe you should find something productive to do with your time. This place is a fine diversion and a fun place to argue, but it should not be your life. Learn a skill, play a game, talk to a human, just something.
Now I will go do the same. Have a nice day.
Could the Dodgers have any more lefty starters? Kershaw, Wood, Urias, Price. Buehler the odd man out. Commence loading lineups with RHers.
Meh, who cares. If their opponents are taking out lefties for inferior players, the Dodgers are probably better off for it. Especially for guys like Kershaw and Price if he bounces back. They can get righties or lefties out so it doesn’t matter how managers create their lineups.
interesting tidbit. No team has ever made the WS with 4 LH starters.
What are the Dodgers doing here?? Giving up Stripling, Joc and Pages for a INF that’s just ok? I don’t get this at all. There has to be another trade brewing. This is just odd to me
The Dodgers are going to get a prospect. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Jordyn Adams.
It’s not any of the angels tops
If it’s Adams, he’s a 45+ prospect. The Dodgers have one 45+ prospect. Gonsolin.
Man the Dodgers are loaded. That would make him the Dodgers 6th or 7th best prospect.
Stripling? That’s FANTASTIC news. As long as it’s not Marsh, this is a GREAT deal for the Angels.
This rotation has huge upside.
Even with the addition of another 100 inning arm like stripling, where is the “huge” upside. This rotation has no arm projected to go 200 innings and is pretty much 6 1-3 war pitchers outside of Ohtani. Ohtani is the totality of the upside. The upside is health and passable production that won’t get them cut. Even with a clean bill of health from all, we are talking about maybe 20 WAR from these 7 guys. Teheran and Bundy are towards the top of that staff and most teams weren’t jumping to sign them as number 5 depth options.
it’s a six man staff, no one is going to go 200 IPs. That that huge upside is not there. Teheran and Bundy do not have big upside.
As far as upside for Ohtani, Heaney, Canning and Stripling scan my posts in this thread, I’ve already explained.
20 WAR isn’t upside?
A 20 WAR rotation with a 21 WAR offense (their production last year, without even factoring in Rendon as an addition), is a 93 win team. And that’s before any positive WAR from the bullpen.
Even I’m not buying them as a 93 win team just yet, but your math that that doesn’t constitute “big upside” just doesn’t fit.
Dodgers are so stacked they are unloading spare parts who will start on and be meaningful players. Those parts are valuable though.
Possible return: Jordyn Adams, Jeremiah Jackson, or if Friedman wants to gamble Chris Rodriguez who had top of the rotation potential if he can get/stay healthy.
Seems like everything is moving, but reports are Angels aren’t giving up Adell, Marsh, Adams, or Jackson. D’Shawn Knowles is possible. Maybe Chris Rodriguez, but he’s got a ton of upside with not a lot of pitching available in the Angels farm system.
It’s funny how fans of every team always assume they can easily get the top prospects of other teams in trades. Adams and Jackson aren’t going anywhere. Not for a rental, the Dodgers #7 starter, and their #29 prospect, a 19 year old who strikes out too much. I agree with you about Knowles as a possibility.
Rengifo is a multi position infielder with 5 years control and has proven he can hit. Ya’ll, he’s the centerpiece.
There better be a strong prospect or two going back to the dodgers cause right now this deal is looking terrible. Still more news to come though
Damn 394 responses. Trolls are trolling good today
Hey, Stripling. That’s a good get for a team that I despise, but am liking more and more players on. Wish he was a Mariner!
Colon – Why would you “despise” any baseball team? It’s just a baseball team that you have no personally association with.
Assuming this goes through, which is never a given…
…(in no true order)
…
Ohtani
Stripling
Heaney
Teheran
Bundy
Canning
…
Assuming health (big assumption), this is exactly the type of rotation that this team needs: serviceable guys who can keep you in games.
…
Once the Halos lost out on ace Cole, the big fish, they needed to pivot to a block of talented middle of the rotation starters who can eat innings.
Ohtani
Teheran
Heaney
Canning
Stripling
Bundy
Ohtani will only make 20-25 starts and we can’t count on Heaney being healthy for any more that that
Its gotta be Jo Adell and Rengifo going to the Dodgers. Otherwise this trade makes no sense for NL LA team.
I highly doubt it. Word is none of the Angels top prospects are involved.
If Adell was going to the Dodgers, the Angels would be getting a hell of a lot more back
Thank you. I needed a good laugh.
Brilliant trades by the Dodgers gives them depth to also trade for prospects.
wouldnt be the first time boston did a salary dump to LA
Angels have catapulted themselves as favorites in the AL West.
No we haven’t. But we have moved ourselves into contention for a Wild Card with $20 million in payroll flexibility to go get more players at the deadline. .
Pages, joc and stripling for luis reigfo and prospects wow. Pages has loud tools and was ranked 29th in dodgers top farm hands at just 18 huge get for angels. Wonder what prospects could be involved for dodgers?
I’d just like to interject: I’m a Giants fan and I’m going to tip my hat to the Dodgers AND the Angels. The Mookie trade is an absolute winner, even if it’s only for one year because Dodger fans are restless and want a WS. Verdugo MAY be very good, but doubtful he’ll ever be as good as Mookie (who is, except for Trout). Haven’t heard the final pieces of the Pederson deal, but so far they didn’t give up much for Pederson, Stripling and Pages. And, boy, do the Angels need starting pitching. Even the Twins did very well in all this. Quite a win-win day for all the clubs (including Boston, if cutting salary was THAT important), though trading Mookie must be hard for Bosox fans).
Sirius MLB’s Bowden says that Adell to Dodgers is a probability.
I simply cannot imagine that’s the case. You don’t give up a blue chip top ten prospect in all of baseball for one year of a platoon bat and a guy who has never pitched 125 innings who you expect to start
I guess you do if you’re desperate for a post season spot.
I’ll believe it when I see it. “Desperate for a playoff spot” would be giving up Adell for something that puts them over the top…not for a few improvements on the margins.
First rule is to never believe anything that idiot Bowden writes. He hasn’t a clue. There’s no way in hell that Adell is getting moved in this type of deal. For Clevinger? OK, I can see it. Joc/Stripling? Nope.
The Dodgers don’t expect to get Adell in this deal. This “lopsided” trade is being made for the Dodgers to obtain Betts and Price and still stay under the luxury tax line. Pederson and Stripling are good men, and merely trading them across town rather than across the country is good for them, the area, and the Angels. Each of them has been big in the Southern California community and can continue to do good things for kids and needy people here. This trade helps both the Dodgers and the Angels. I expect Stripling to thrive with a regular spot in the rotation. Good on both the Dodgers and Angels for not letting a crosstown rivalry get in the way.
While I don’t think mlb teams a quite as altruistic as you are suggesting, its a nice, feel-good narrative. Beautifully written alanofla
LMFAO. Who are we getting back? Buehler?
If Adell is going to the Dodgers in this deal then Eppler needs to be fired.
Wow – it took several hundred comments before someone turned what is by all measures a great trade for the Angles and Dodgers into a fire Eppler comment.
Bowden is clueless but I can’t believe that even he would say something so stupid.
Halos are getting Ross Stripling AND Joc Pederson?! What on earth are they giving up for them? It has to be so much more just Rengifo. I bet you anything if the Dodgers knew they would trade for Mookie Betts those discussions with the White Sox earlier this offseason regarding Joc Pederson would have gone much MUCH differently.
Joc Pederson might not even be worth his salary and it gets the Dodgers under the cap. Eight million basically is the going rate for free agents of his quality. Last night I really didn’t understand the trade.,
So it’s really Stripling for Rengifo and prospects. We will see who the Angels add.
A 3 War player not worth 8 million! What planet are you on my friend.
Gms would love you as a player agent 🙂
Dodgers getting another prospect back…..cross your fingers….. I think they realized they needed to get a couple mill more under so Strip went out as well-
Gotta love our scouting dept on these calls though for the unknown prospect back, Downs are Gray last year was an amazing get –
Crazy 24 hrs, the dodgers are now stocking the farm, while getting under the CBT ,just after getting Mookie and Price-
I think they envision Renigfro as the next Kiki/Taylor whoes gonna be a whole lot cheaper for a while as well
@JD It is not going to be a top tier, 2nd tier, or 3 tier prospect. They only wanted to get below the luxury tax. The Dodgers do not need anyone and didn’t care who they got back as long as it was didn’t affect the payroll. They saw the Angels looking for pitching on the corner like crackheads looking for drugs and whipped up a quick trade and said we include Stripling and of course the Angels were all over it. They could have easily received more in return for Pederson and Stripling, but they were for feeling generous after getting Betts and Price for not much.
You make it sound like they are just giving them away. I highly doubt is the case. The fact that its taking longer to complete probably means they want something of value back from the halos, a position they should take. If these were just toss outs to any taker, there would be more than just the Angels talking to the Dodgers.
Nah we taking something else from you Mr Angel if trade 1 goes thru smooth- Im excited to see who soon
Id watch out too, we pretty good on selecting them prospects
Can you say opening day Starter?!!?#$% Stripling is a good pick up for the Halos.
FYI, PITCHING DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! we won in 2002 with Washburn as our ace. We mashed it then, we’ll mash this year. 1 thru 9, the Angels will match up with anyone.
2002 is not a very good example. The Angels were #1 in runs allowed and number four in runs scored.
But there are MANY ways to win championships. “Pitching wins championships” is a cliche’ that is pretty meaningless. Run differential typically gets you in the post season, then be good and lucky.
Agreed macstruts, build a solid team to get in the playoffs, then you’ll need to be lucky and good while you’re there.
This trade is dragging out as bad as the Iowa caucus…
Halos trying to take advantage of the Dodgers no doubt.
Angels are still killing this trade. Let’s get to the rest of the Dodgers return. I don’t believe they are getting back any top top guys but something of good upside or they would of never thrown in a upside prospect of their own. Joc is solid though. 36 hrs in part time play is amazing. Solid defense. Dodgers want to be under tax but this is a nice piece to lose to achieve it. Angels are killing it. They Will be interesting and and have a solid season. Probably no wild card but a good team.
I wouldn’t say “probably” no wild card. I wouldn’t even say ‘unlikely; wild card.
I’d say wild card contender. I don’t think Texas has any chance to hit. That leaves.
TB, Boston (who got weaker), Cleveland, A’s, White Sox and Angels.
When you are two of six, I’d say wild card contender.
I wish there was a way to be able to go directly to your comment you’ve left to reply or to see if anyone has replied and also wish they could alert us if we have any reply’s. If whoever runs this page can see this maybe something to look into…
Below the comment box, you have the option to check “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail.” Also, you can always hit Control + F and start typing your username to find your comments quickly.
Not sure what the never=Angels crowd can say now. We’ve addressed pitching, catcher, plus made surprising improvements with Rendon and Pederson. We now have arguably a top 3 infield, a solid rotation, the best player ever leading a solid outfield, and a scary line up from 1 to 9. We did it all without giving away the farm and stayed below the tax line.
Dodgers are gonna be like….give us this guy (low level A ball player on no one’s radar) turns out to be a star!
So will Lux and May be regulars this year and not platoon guys like the Dodgers always do. Verdugo should have never been a platoon player. And with pitchers they’re always moving starters to the bullpen. Such a waste.
I agree with you! The reason is they have such incredible organizational depth! Sometimes is can be a burden because players are misused or underutilized. Essentially, its a good problem to have but from a fans perspective I’m sure it can be frustrating.