It’s widely accepted at this point that the Astros impermissibly utilized technology to steal signs and then conveyed the information gleaned to hitters in the batters’ box during regular-season games. According to a report from Jeff Passan of ESPN.com, the subjects of the resulting investigation have copped to the bad acts.
With the investigative work nearing a conclusion, Passan says that commissioner Rob Manfred will likely mete out discipline within the next two weeks. Several notable figures are reportedly potential suspension targets: GM Jeff Luhnow, manager A.J. Hinch, and former bench coach/current Red Sox skipper Alex Cora.
Notably, per the report, players that participated in the elaborate-yet-ham-fisted scheme are not expected to be disciplined. But the team could end up paying a massive fine. There’s no indication yet whether a loss of draft picks or other competitive sanction might be applied. In handing down punishment for improper use of technology in 2017, Manfred promised that such penalties were on the table, saying: “[A]ll 30 Clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”
It would never be acceptable for the product of baseball — individual contests and the overall regular/post-season championship schedule — to be compromised by teams acting outside of the rules, especially in a scheme as devious and concerted as the one allegedly put into action by the Astros. The stakes are raised yet higher by the fact that MLB is wading into murky waters in the gambling arena. And it probably doesn’t help that the league is currently facing major pushback for its plans to dramatically curtail minor league ball.
It’s a major decision for Manfred, who already watched as the Astros bungled a self-inflicted scandal involving since-fired assistant GM Brandon Taubman just months ago. He’ll certainly need to create precedent that serves as a legitimate deterrent. But doing so with respect to a marquee roster could prove challenging.
The complexities deepen when one considers the potential entanglements. Cora is one major instance. Reporting earlier today implicates the Red Sox in a less-egregious but nevertheless impermissible act of signaling espionage. The skipper could conceivably be at fault in both episodes. The Boston organization may not be alone in its manner of harnessing technology.
Untangling all of this could prove tricky. Andy Martino of SNY.tv even seems to suggest (Twitter link) that the Astros have claimed or could claim that such actions on the part of competitors might justify or at least mitigate their own rule-breaking. A source suggests, rather bizarrely, that the Houston club was simply making up for the fact that it was not able to mis-use its own replay room because it “was far away” from the dugout, unlike most other teams. If this strained logic is any indication of the thinking around the game — not to mention the actual and/or perceived pervasiveness of cheating — then the MLB rules and enforcement regime is badly in need of re-working, beginning with the imposition of clear and effective disincentives relating to this incident.
Take their title this is trash for the league
Burn their stadium down.
Manfred either needs to set an example that can be respected amongst the league, or resign. If the punishment isn’t severe enough, then every team will just continue this behavior. Lay down the law, or lay down your job. Period. Otherwise you’re just a pushover that people will take advantage of. Haters can hate, but that’s the reality the sport is facing.
This coming from a baseball fan
Lifetime bans for all involved would be the only way change occurs.
No draft choices or international spending until the strike/lockout is over. That could work, as well.
You don’t want to punish the future. New GM’s or new coaches, new players. What you do is take away what benefited from the cheat. Remove the championship give it to the second place team. Fine the team maybe the salaries of management and coaches. Make team fire those guilty. Start clean now. Don’t take away draft choices but punish the guilty deed.
What does taking the WS away from them do? Erase one name in the history books and write in another? What was stolen cannot be replaced. Multiple draft picks must be taken. If the team took/stole the past/present, then their future must be taken.
Jarvis
If they take the title away that means Houston has to take down all the 2017 we banners, signs, plaques etc. Then when theres no title for 2017. Everyone will know Houston cheated. That’ll be worse than any fine or draft lose.
A lot of people are gonna be disappointed when the championship isn’t taken away. Honestly, a lot of people are gonna be disappointed in general when punishments like “suspend them from the postseason for 5 years” aren’t handed out,
The second place team was doing the same thing. As was the third and fourth.
Waiting patently with my box of popcorn. This should be fun!
Signed a “Dodger fan”
You must be wondering what it would have been like to face the Yankees.
Slap on wrist. Again.
Agreed @bluemarlin
Ahh holier than thou Alex Cora. Caught with his hand in the cookie jar…. Don’t fool yourself the Astros were probably not the only ones stealing signs with technology. They just got caught.
The Yankees have been doing it for years with the YES network cameras.
LOL okay bro. Show me a single accusation that the Yankees have used their TV cameras to cheat. Just one. I’ll wait. I’ll even turn on notifications so I get an email when you reply with proof of your stupid comment.
You could have searched it yourself. According to the article, the Red Sox filed an allegation against the Yankees after the Sox Apple Watch scandal. You can interpret that as Red Sox bitter retaliation or that other teams steal signals as well, kind of like “if you tell on me I’m gonna tell on you.”
nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/red-sox-ev…
Is the key word “their”.
The Yankees got caught. That’s why the commission removed all ambiguity prior to the 2018 season.
Compared to the Red Sox, the Yankees are fine. Since the Red Sox spit in the commissioners face and did it after they were warned. They are going to be in trouble. Since the Astros infractions were so egregious, they are going to be in trouble.
No you can’t. The Red Sox were explicitly warned not to do it again.
You may argue that in 2017 not for 2018.
Realistically, I believe EVERY team stretched the rules in the past but one Watchgate happened in 17, all teams were on notice. As others have said, punishment has to be big to set an example otherwise what was the point of notifying all teams?
You guys are absolutely out of your minds. You know who can see all of the signs with cameras? Everybody watching at home. That’s right. Something as obvious as that has eluded everyone’s obviousness radar. If you don’t want people stealing your signs then keep changing your signs up. It would add another layer of strategy and would make teams think twice about stealing signs
You realize the fans aren’t the ones who then hit the pitch that they know is coming, right? If you wanna talk about “obviousness,” you should probably include this no brainer.
99% of baseball players don’t even know what egregious even means lol
The Yankees were also fined last year during the Red Sox investigation. Maybe it wasn’t such a stupid comment.
Did you read the article? It just said Cora may be involved as part of the Red Sox too
If both teams have similar monitors, I’m not sure what Cora did in 18 was wrong. If it was however, he and the Sox also deserve punishment. This to a lesser extent reminds me of PED usage. They ban substances and players look for alternatives. Same thing with management here.
They still would’ve won it. They were that good
Yeah, because all their hitters knew what was coming next. lol
You guys are absolutely out of your minds. You know who can see all of the signs with cameras? Everybody watching at home. That’s right. Something as obvious as that has eluded everyone’s obviousness radar. If you don’t want people stealing your signs then keep changing your signs up. It would add another layer of strategy and would make teams think twice about stealing signs
ill make the popcorn.
I got tickets lol
Idk if they will do anything severe, but the should. Cleveland told Boston they were doing it….mlb did nothing, the next year Boston cheats. Seems to me they should make examples that will stop it in the future, the way Pete rose’s van did gambling. And the commissioner should be fired for letting it taint a possible World Series before acting.
@indiansjoe. You are absolutely right! Manfred is a joke and should be removed ASAP!
With the money the league is producing, no way. Same thing in the NFL.
Someone has short term memory loss…Astros played Cleveland in the playoffs in ’18, same year the Red Sox were doing it.
There is no way to stop sign stealing. In fact considering that everyone can see it at home on their normal TV broadcasts I would say that you can’t even really call it sign stealing anymore. It’s more just like sign reading
ah, here we go, a mention of the replay room far from the dugout. proof that that’s a terrible system to prevent these things.
Alright they’re going to be fined millions and also lose their first rounders for the next three years. Say what u want about it but the Astros cheated and you can’t do that kind of crap so I don’t care what people say that’s way too big of a punishment. Why cheat in the first place? That’s the Astros fault. And no the punishment probably won’t be that big
remember, people said that the first time the Pats cheated. i expect the same result here, like it or not.
Yeah probably
Todd Steverson was the interim manager for a Class A team and had his pitcher intentionally balking to score the opposing team’s runner, as it was a nearly 5 hour extra innings and he did not want to risk injury on his players.
He fined and suspended for a year for compromising the integrity of the game. Granted, Class A has a much different ruleset than the MLB. But if Steverson has to face that sort of punishment for bad judgement (even though he was attempting to avoid injuries), then the Astros should definitely face heavy consequences for cheating.
The Winning share for the World Series that year was $41 million. That seems like a big enough fine.
Put an asterisk beside their World Series win in the record books. Doesn’t mean much but he can’t really strip them of the title so a small symbolic act would be nice. On top of loss of draft picks and a fine. And ban anyone who lied to the MLB investigators in the process.
Asterisk? Strip it !!!
That’s just ignorant. The only “proof” out there is from during the season. Nothing from the playoffs. And if you want to be technical, the Astros were significantly better on the road in 2017 than at home. So much so that the team spent money analyzing if the new LED lighting in the ballpark was effecting the player’s ability to see the ball, and even asked fans sitting in Center field to please not wear white clothing. The Astros beat the Indians on the road, and the Dodgers on the road that year. Yes, they lost to the Yankees on the road, but that was a great matchup between evenly matched teams. It came down to a game 7 where the Astros won a 1 run game. To put an asteric next to that Championship is not only unfair to the players, but unfair to their opponents as well.
David apparently shadowed MLB investigators or didn’t read they admitted to acts from the article. Or maybe he’s done his own investigation
If they cheated during the regular season, what makes you think for one second they didn’t do it in the playoffs as well? That’s naive.
MLB had monitors in place for the playoffs. Apparently not perfect but a deterrent not present in the regular season. MLB was aware that multiple teams were doing this.
Maybe the punishment should be that they have to play all their home games in Tampa?
Or be rebranded as the Houston Dreamers
Surely Houston Can-Bangers
They of the naughty league eh?
What did the Rays do wrong? They are a pretty decent team. It is going to embarrass the Rays more when the Astros outdraw them on their own home field.
Rays are great, that stadium is awful. You can hear people flushing the toilet in the bathroom on the broadcast because the games are so poorly attended.
Facts!
Flush is fastball, hand dryer offspeed
Remember, we have video evidence of Steve Pearce (former Ray) using the yankees’ dugout bathroom during a game (look up the video on youtube). 2018 World Series MVP? The plot just keeps getting thicker…
Excellent! Won’t help the Rays that much but I like your style.
In the NBA, players aren’t allowed to (or at least don’t) leave the bench unless being treated for an injury. That would be an easy step for players and coaches in the dugout. Maybe allow them to leave during the 7th inning stretch or something similar (like half-time in basketball/football) for a restroom break. No more pitchers headed to the shower early.
Baseball games last 4+ hours. Players need to use the bathroom in between innings so there is no way this is happening. Also, this wouldn’t fix the problem anyways as they have staff in the replay room who could easily inform the manager/bench coach/players during the game if players were not allowed in there. Sounds like MLB needs to have their own staff in these rooms during the regular season to prevent this. They do it during the playoffs, so just extend that to the regular season and problem solved!
i heard they stared doing that , putting someone from mlb in the replay rooms during the 2019 regular season
LOL Pete Rose had a widely known irritable bowel problem during his playing years.
Just replace the on deck circle with a Porta potty. Boom solved
They would never do it, but I think appropriate punishment would be fine and suspensions for each person involved, along with NO HOME GAMES for the first half of the season
You can’t take away a teams home games. All that does is punish the fans, it’s not their fault their team cheated. In a day and age when baseball is desperate to stop fans from leaving already, this is about the least possible punishment out there.
Yeah, baseball needs all the fans it can get
They could in Tampa/Oakland/Miami and move them to say.. Montreal half a season and more fans would probably appreciate it.
On another note.. Article says penalties and names high ups/coaches (Cora) and Hinch as targets of penalties, then lets off the hook all players once again who knowingly participated in this scam, just like it did with the cheat with Boston and the iwatch thing.. Why are players the sacred cow? Suspend them, THEY are the one’s getting benefit from all of this!
This should be as severe of a punishment as what happened to the Cards for the email scandal and it should make notes to other teams to make them think twice.
3 first round draft picks and take away international money pool.
The difference is what the Cardinals (well not the organization itself, just a representative of the team) did was actually illegal, not just breaking an MLB rule.
You could make the case that this is fraud due to the implications it has for the legal gambling business. I don’t know how far that case would get, but there would at least be an argument for it.
Don’t remember the cardinals losing 3 first round picks. What they did had criminal implications – what the Astros did was more unethical but widely applied throughout the league by the top teams. This will be like steroids. Lots of smoke and more will come out over the next couple of years. Lots of movement of players between teams so no sacred cows here. Just give it some time. I do hope the Commish paints this with a broad brush because it’s not just the Astros. Baseball has included sign stealing since the beginning. The technology has just become more sophisticated. If television coverage would quit live feeds showing catchers giving signals – big part of the problem would be solved.
demote them to AAA farm club for the Yankees
Well, you’re a Yankees fan, aren’t you?
We’ve already got the marlins
Well that doesn’t make any sense. Then the Yankees AAA team would be better than their major league club.
So did anyone ever notice or comment that the banging stopped or was absent on certain pitches?
Nope, not a single person picked up on that. That’s why the Astros aren’t in trouble.
What do you mean not a single person noticed that? Almost everyone noticed that. Which is why I believe the reports there was electronic communication. Which means the Astros and the Players are in trouble.
It wasn;t until Fiers spilled the beans that it was noticed upon investigation. The Yankees heard whistling, but there doesn’t appear to be a correlation between the whistling and the play on the field. There also wasn’t any banging. Doesn’t mean they didn’t devise a different way to cheat. Some were even saying wearing bandages that could be buzzed, but sounds way too elaborate. They actually did better when they were away , not cheating than at home, cheating.
Do you think a team as sophisticated as the Astros stopped at banging.
It’s been reported that players wore electronic devices. If that’s the case, both the team and the player should be punished.
That was the Red Sox
I’d imagine it’s not audible to the unsuspecting individuals in a loud ballpark crowd. You really have to be listening close for the banging in the batter’s box. Like others have mentioned, there had to be also other physical electronic signaling such as a worn buzzing device of some sort.
Yeah, which is why at least one pitcher called his catcher from the mound after hearing the banging. I really don’t care if others did it. These cats got caught and they need to make a huge example of them.
The Can banging was for an off speed pitch. No banging equalled fast ball. Otherwise it gets as complex as native American drumming.
And everyone knows those Astros boys ain’t got no rhythm. More than three beats and they’d be confused…
If players lied during the investigation or wore electronic devices to the plate, they need to be suspended.
I don’t know how you cannot suspend a player if they do such things. I also don’t know how you can prove it. But if they do prove it, there needs to be player suspensions.
There are already images out there from MLB feeds of Astros wearing what are suspected to be electronic buzzers. Have a team take a look at home Astros games, if players were wearing it in a visible spot then some camera caught it.
If they were wearing patches, then those players need to be suspended. That’s an overt action which everyone knows is cheating.
I’m hopeful MLB does the right thing.
Photoshopped.
Seems the Cleveland guy beats on the drum every pitch, just up to delivery.
Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose got lifetime bans for less, just saying…
Good point.
but Barry Bonds, A-Rod and a host of others did not get lifetime bans for cheating more.
Sign stealing is far more egregious then steroids. Steroids really aren’t a big deal.
LOL
I just realized it the past few months……
Padre fans have a unique way of analyzing the game of baseball, prospects, and how teams are built.
That “no prosecution for shoplifting up to $900” law that passed in California must have had overwhelming support in the San Diego area.
Rose got banned from baseball for betting. This is far worse than what Rose did. They should all be banned for life from MLB. The Astros should lose their 1st round picks for the next 10 years. And fined $20 million. That would truly wake up the league and cause then to rethink their cheating ways.
But does MLB want to hand out the appropriate punishments, or just make it appear to the average fan that they are… Any fines will likely be a joke to an organization worth billions.. Anything less than a few years of forfeited draft picks will also be somewhat of a joke to one of the top teams. Houston would be losing nothing higher than late first round picks for at least a few years to come.
I’m afraid that’s what will end up happening. You’re spot on, “…just make it appear to the average fan that they are…” with Manfred at the helm, and with the way MLB has treated steroid users compared to how they treated Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe way back when, I think you’re right on how the punishment will go down.
And it was ok for Boston and New York to get little financial slaps on the hand last year? Baseball players have stolen signs for years. Only now the technology and live feeds make it easier. Not saying it’s ok but in a billionaires sport where failure only 2 out of 3 times guarantees you a spot in the HOF, baseball players are going to take advantage of everything possible. Is it ok for runner on second to steal signs? Same ethics – just less technology.
It will be a huge L for the commissioner if serious draft pick and competitiveness penalties are not attached to every instance of this type of cheating, but ESPECIALLY in the blatant manner of the Astros trash can method. There’s no justification of this stuff when it’s clearly in the rules that it’s illegal, so the crackdown needs to be hard and thorough.
Fine them the amount of $$ they took in during the WS. Strip them of draft choices. Strangle their competitive ability so the organization loses value and advertisers and fan base have less reason do to business with them.
“But Billy’s mom said it was okay.”
Take away the cubs only title in the last 110 years also just to keep there frugal streak alive. In all of sports that losing streak will never be topped.
Well, your string of lame comments is pretty close.
It’s really not that complicated. Cheating must be stopped, not rationalized, debated or enabled. There are too many players who wouldn’t succumb, potentially on further hold from achieving their own dreams because of cheaters getting a wrist slap. Thats not even taking into account the integrity of the league and the message a weak punishment sends to children.
Rally, it is amazing now many fans are rationalizing this. That what happens when you create your own morality.
It’s sad. Nobody cheers for degenerates. They usually get boo’d if allowed to take the stage. Manfred knows this, and so does your average 10-year-old.
Forfeit the 2017 World Series win
No postseason play for the next 3 seasons
No free agent signings for the next 3 offseasons
No 1st round picks for the next 3 drafts
100 million dollar fine
Justice served!
this isnt usc.
It’s much worse. I’m a UCLA football fan btw…. ohhhh I shouldn’t remind myself of that….
How could there be no postseason play for 3 years though? Like, congrats on winning 98 games and your division, but the second-place A’s will take your playoff spot. That wouldn’t work
Nope, banned from postseason play is just that, regardless of record, no postseason, no extra playoff earnings, no sharing of playoff revenue.
Then it’s up to Houston to decide how they play, what they want to “prove” and how they deal with the fact they might be better but they don’t get postseason play to move on beyond the regular season.
Hits them in the pocketbook, player time (essentially lose a year more of age and competitiveness) and potentially future signings if postseason ban is extended to 3 years.
I think the manager should be brought out to the pitchers mound on opening day and the opposing team gets to beat the snot out of him with their bats. Would that be too harsh?
The only thing that’s harsh is the pain my eyes are going thru after reading your post.
You should get a different prescription.
So we’re up to three. Can we stop pretending this isn’t a league=wide issue?
I highly doubt this is a league wide issue. Batters may cover their butts, but pitchers who switch teams are going to tell their new pitching teammates that their old team is cheating.
I can’t believe a team is stupid enough they think they can get away with this.
All you have to do is listen to the MLB network or read the guy who broke the story to realize it is a league wide issue.
Well, that’s exactly what happened here. The original article said the Astros got the idea from a veteran in his first season with the Astros, that was struggling at the plate. The Astros only had 3 new veterans: Beltran, McCann, and Reddick. Reddick wasn’t struggling and Beltran and McCann both came to the Astros from the Yankees. Sooooooo……..sounds like the Astros got the idea from the Yankees by way of former players.
It’s a league wide problem.
Do you have a problem with runners on second stealing signs? It’s actually the same ethical dilemma.
Dig deep enough and I think you find that over half the teams in the top third of the standings in a given season have engaged in some similar behavior.
Alt Sox. i don’t compare this to what the Red Sox were doing.
Here is the thing, batters can keep this a secret. But if a pitcher finds out his team is stealing signs, and that pitcher goes to another club, he’s gonna talk.
A batter might not admit his own culpability. but a pitcher is not going to keep it a secret. I don’t think the Astros kind of cheating is as prevalent as you think it is.
@dejota somebody’s got to take the fall. It’s how the world works.
I’d guess about half the teams are guilty in some form or other. I have no problem with teams stealing signs, so long as it’s only players and coaches on the field or in the dugout who are doing it and no technology is used. That’s been part of the game for decades. If teams use tech or other people, I want the Commissioner’s Office to hit them hard enough that they won’t seriously consider doing it again.
I am no Astros fan and feel they deserve to be punished.. but some of the ideas like forfeiting their championship is stupid. Sure it gave them a competitive advantage, but the game is played on both sides of the ball. Fines, suspensions for those higher up and loss of draft picks seems like adequate punishment.
The sad thing is MLB doesn’t give one care about cleaning up the cheating for the sake of the game, or the fans.
The only reason mlb is getting involved or doing anything is their interest in gambling/betting revenue.
How about decreasing the luxury tax threshold for several years?
If only people cared as much about their politics as they do sports, we’d all be better off.
Accidentally thumbs upped this. Sorry.
Take a hike with the politics take though…thx 🙂
I agree. Part of the draw of sports is people can come together despite indifference of views.
What the hell does this have to do with Pete Rose? Some of you commenters are out to lunch.
Pete Rose deserves his punishment. The Astros management and hopefully players involved in this scam hopefully will get a deserving punishment. But, the two have nothing in common really, apples and oranges.
I understand the connection people are making – at its heart, both seta of actions call into question the integrity of the game and whether the actual w/l records are a fair representation of what would’ve happened naturally but for the actions in question.
Looks like Lunlhow is gonna get the old Pete Rose treatment. Hinch gonna do one year. Gonna fine the team 10m and they’re gonna dock a 1st round draft picks and potentially a 2nd and 5th the following year.
I’m a White Sox fan living in Houston. When the Astros aren’t playing the Sox or Cubs, I root for them. That said, the league needs to make an example of them. Heavy fine, loss of first 2 rounds of draft picks this next year, and suspensions for everyone who took part or can be proven to have known about it. Those suspensions wouldn’t have to be served concurrently (they’d still need to field a squad somehow), but really hamstring their season. If Boston cheated, even though theirs seems a lesser form of it, hammer them, too.
Amazing. I bet this is completed before the Bryant grievance. Stop dragging your feet crooked Manfred. I know Manfred has nothing to do with the decision, well he does being the deciding person boss. Just like they own the manufacturing of the baseball’s but “we dont know why its acting different”. Bunch of straight faced liars. I bet it’s a loss of 2 draft picks and a $50 million fine. They spend more than that on 2 players. Manfred will say the punishment is light because they dont want to punish people coming up that weren’t involved.
How does Manfred still have a job? Because he protects the rich and punish’s the poor. Weak man with no backbone.
Doubt the fine is that high. Hope draft pick losses are coming. That would be the true penalty, that and a loss of international signing pool money.
Your idea sounds weak hyra. Like telling a 5 year old not to do it. You must be one of the silly parents who actually think they abide by you. I told him not to do, he wont do it. Then your shocked when the thing he does next is worse.
If that happens then more team will cheat moving forward. They made more than 50 mil the past few seasons to justify the cheating. That’s just gross.
What worse is your team is partly responsible for Tyler Skaggs death.
Yikes!
I hope their wrist can handle the slapping that’s coming
I hear the punishment is the astros will lose to the expos in the world series.
This is the worst scandal in this sports history. YouTube has hours upon hours of video to support the claim. I think it’s an absolute disgrace to not punish the players. The players knew, when they heard the trash cans and saw the signs that they were cheating. They DID NOT SAY ANYTHING!
This organization has no integrity, and is full of cheating sissies.
If there was a baseball version of the death penalty, you have to use it right now. This has to be the most serious punishment in our sports history.
Lol?
so the black sox was just a walk in the park or betting against games aka pete rose was just fair play or the nba refs point shaving scandal pales in comparision? at least they were trying to win or just throw away garbage!
The Black Sox scandal was 5x as bad, but this is bad too, yeah.
Not only the Black Sox’s like many have said but I think what happened to the Angels this year was worse than anything else in baseball ever. A trainer on the team obtained illegal drugs for a pitcher who ended up dead in the end. How many other players was provided something similar on the Angels. Crazy how that has been swept completely under the rug!
It’s hilarious how many Dodgers Yankees and Indians fans are commenting on this especially saying cheating can’t be tolerated. Even the author of this article said it would never be acceptable that a MLB team operates outside the rules so please tell me what sport you are watching? Where in the rule book that says this is illegal but a pitcher using pine tar is not allowed based on the same book. Although the MLB knows this rule is broken in most games they choose to not change the rules on it. Oh by the way let’s see how many teams get investigated in the next 5 years for this same thing because it just came out the Red Sox was doing something similar in 18 and they have already been fined once about this in 2017 with the Yankees when they were said to be using YES Network’s cameras.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Hinch is suspended for the entire 2020 season along with any or all of the following, in order of severity:
Luhnow suspended indefinitely
Organization fined $100MM plus their entire postseason revenue for the past three seasons
2017 World Series vacated
All contracts signed since 2017 voided, players become free agents
Crane forced to sell
All trash cans removed from Minute Maid Park
How do we get in touch with you if you get sawed off now that you’re “going out on a limb”?
Yes the Astros cheated but where did they learn how to cheat you ask? Carlos Beltran. He brought the idea with him from the Yankees who had done it in 2016. Bench coach Jody Cora was also very involved. It’s not surprise to find out now that Boston was cheating in 2018.
Thank you! Everyone seems to skim over Beltran, and the Yankees, involvement here.
This is BS. If you’re going after the Astros, better get the Red Sox and Yankees. Don’t make one example here and forget the others.
I see some commenters worrying about too much moralizing, or quickly blaming other teams. The real story here isn’t what happened, it’s what the league policy is going to be going forward, especially in light of the new MLB position on sports betting, which used to be a bedrock no no. You will always have “gamesmanship” in every sport.
You either care about cheating or you don’t. If you do, you need clear rules that everyone can follow, with the knowledge of the penalties that will occur for a violation of those rules. Ad hoc reactions along with “stern warnings” do absolutely nothing–they are the equivalent of MLB’s past tacit approval of PEDS.
The real story is both what happened and what will be done to prevent it happening again.
Take their title and give it to…..the Yankees. Haha. Cause let’s face it, LA wouldn’t have won either way.
The reality with this scandal is that the MLB needs to be able to levy a punishment that is severe enough to ensure a solid precedent is set. If there are any further findings of teams stealing signs, the same punishment (or a lesser one, depending on the severity of the breach of rules) will be applied. It’s doubtful, though not impossible, that a team concocts a strategy so blatantly obvious they are cheating, that the punishment would need to be more strict. Thus, the heavier punishment the MLB hands down now, the more likely they will have more flexibility down the road for any future punishments.
If all they do is take a draft pick, fine the club $2M and maybe a month long suspension of the GM or coach, where is the disincentive for clubs to stop cheating? Becuase the reward for getting away with it for a brief period of time would be well worth it, especially considering each win a team has in a season will generate more revenue. I don’t know the exact numbers but I cannot imagine it would take many wins to make $2M in additional revenue, whether through merchandise, ticket sales, etc. This will be a pivotal moment in the game, in my personal opinion. If the punishment is too lax, expect the integrity of the game to be further compromised.
So, draft picks might not be involved?
That’ll teach them.
They ALL do it on some level. Sit in a dugout and listen to these guys (coaches and players) try to pick signs and figure out how pitchers tip their pitches. They compete to see who can do it better.
You can’t see the difference? Sad.
Astros should lose next 2 first rounders, plus lose the ability to make qualifying offers for 5 years.
Good in theory, but all signs are pointing to the whole qualifying offer thing being done away with in the next CBA after 2021. So that would turn this into a 2 year ban rather than a 5 year.
With the amount of turnover among players, coaches, and front office personnel, it is amazing that people think they can get away with stuff like this. All it takes is one released player that gets picked up by another team, which happens several times a year, and your whole scheme is blown. They should be punished severely, just for the sheer stupidity of the concept.
So you’d think but even so very few players have confessed to knowledge of this form of cheating, at least publicly. It feels like cheating may have entered the culture of baseball, just as PEDs did before. They were tough to control because at one point nearly everybody was doing it nobody wanted to be the stool pigeon. So either the cheating was limited to a handful of teams and has been kept under wraps by those players, or it’s so widespread throughout the game that nobody wants to speak out for fear of being branded as the one who blew the whistle.
Reportedly Feirs finally got fed up with it because of the changes toward extremely analytics based decision making of MLB front offices… careers of young pitchers could potentially be ruined if they got destroyed by cheating batters during their cup of coffee. One or two bad outings might send you down and keep you from getting another chance.
And to your point of not wanting to be the rat, I think this is why they need to punish the players too. They need to change the culture so they are holding each other accountable to not cheating. If the players can benefit from cheating (thus boosting their stats and their future paydays via arbitration and free agency) then they should face punishment for it.
suspend coaches and manager of astros for 1 year. lay $50 mil fines on the owner/team and $50 mil roster fines for 2 years so that the team will have to trade expensive and better players and is forced to rebuild.
Nothing like reading the MLBTR comments sections and the punishment the Astros “should” get. The Astros didn’t cheat or break the rules in any way.
The Astros have literally admitted to cheating and breaking the rules. It says that in the first paragraph of this article lol.
are you that ignorant? or you just come out of your basement shelter? or are you the lawyer representing astros?
Can’t believe you all took the bait he put out to get some riled up responses. SMH
Popcorn! Peanuts! Soda Pop! Hot dogs!! Let the drama begin. This should be entertaining at least
Year long suspensions for all parties named (including Cora), loss of their next 3 years’ worth of first round picks, limit on international spending for the next 3 years, and the maximum allowable fine.
Boom^
It’s time. Let a team put a communication device on the pitcher and catcher and manager.
Make it much much harder to steal signs.
I’m with you on the pitcher and catcher, but not the manager. Also — if you use electronic devices those things can (and will) likely be hacked.
They are all frauds now including Beltran, Verlander, Altuve, Bregman.
How are pitchers who had to pitch in Houston and had inflated numbers going to be compensated?
He’s dumb
Throw the book at the Astros! Unbelievable that they would resort to this kind of chicanery with the kind of talent they possessed! Take away their World Series, draft picks, ban the manager for a year or two, and force the removal of one of their stars or two.to be auctioned off league wide. Give them the same punishment (the “death penalty”) that was dished out by the NCAA to the Southern Methodist Univ. football team back in the late 80’s for cheating and paying high schoolers to attend the University.
Like the article says, Suspensions and heavy fines are the likely outcomes. I expected that to be the punishment all along. Cora especially could miss significant time if he’s found to have played a larger role for HOU and of course during the 2018 season as manager of the BOS.
Astros fan here. If the MLB decides the Astros only used a camera to steal signs in 2017 the Astros should only get a slap on the hand and small fine. Just like what happened to Boston and Yankees in 2017. March of 2018 is when the three page memo was sent out by Joe Torre on just this subject and that was because they caught Boston using their replay room to steal signs. Just because the MLB found this out in 2019 doesn’t mean they go by 2019 rules. Hence why when the MLB first mentioned the investigation into the Astros the main two things to find out was this the only season they did it and how far up the chain of command it went.
Stop using logic.
The thing is all teams were warned that if it happened again, the penalties will be harsh. I don’t expect much to happen other than a loss of a few draft picks. The one that will be punished the most will be Cora. I would think a minimum 2 year ban, possibly a lifetime ban. I mean he was warned and broke the rules on 2 separate teams.
Every single one involved deserves a lifetime ban, This is worse than what Coppy & that guy from St. Louis did. The ironic thing is, that for a game that relies so much on balls, it’s commissioner doesn’t seem to have any.
The Braves GM and a top level scout were banned from baseball because of siphoning draft money to International players – this cheating deals directly with the outcome of games – something much worse.
*bonus money
Go Cubs Go
So the 2017 Astros at home were 48-33 a mere 15 games above .500 The Astros on the road were 53-28, a whopping 25 games above .500! So if they cheated they cheated, but they still have to hit the damn ball in split second times? Dang it, it’s hard enough to hear your partner in the seat next to you when Minute Maid Park is so loud with its roaring fans, You honestly say that they can hear a trash can being hit from the dugout hallway? They played better on the road without the so called video sign stealing, every team steals signs, hell even in little league we steal tipping signs. I do believe that a punish is due, but not taking the World Series Title away, they were truly the better team in 2017 and deserve it. I believe removing draft picks, fines and suspensions for GM/Manager are foreseeable but they keep the title. Stop hating because your team didn’t think of it first or had the balls to do it, every team is guilty in sign stealing. Mike Fiers broke a cardinal rule of what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse!
It’s hilarious to read al the bizarre comments calling for loss of the title, yearlong player bans, players being deemed free agents. The appropriate punishment, in keeping with previous cases, would be a significant fine, loss of draft picks & international $$, and long suspensions for upper level management who knew or ignored these acts.
Don’t be stupid fandom. Other teams will be caught as well.
Well it seems the previous penalties have done nothing to deter teams from doing it. In fact Boston was already caught using smart watches prior so no more wrist slapping.
Time for a letter writing campaign to the MLB boys!
So are we women not allowed to voice our opinions too Teddy?
The way to stop this in the future is to make sure the coaches and managers who implemented the system serve lengthy suspensions. In Boston, if it is proved Cora knew about the cheating, he should be suspended for a season. Similarly, the Houston manager needs a season-long suspension.
Manfred is a joke, he won’t do anything noteworthy
All of you need to get over yourselves … I’m guessing every team in the league has cheated one way or another but the Astros (given up by a disgruntled player) or the Red Soxs (because of the association with the Astros) got caught. Other teams have been caught in the past and others will get caught in the future … Houston & Boston will accept their punishment and the game will continue.
All of you need to get over yourselves … I’m guessing every team in the league has cheated one way or another but the Astros (given up by a disgruntled player) and the Red Soxs (because of the association with the Astros) got caught. Other teams have been caught in the past and others will get caught in the future … Houston & Boston will accept their punishment and the game will continue.