The Astros stand accused of utilizing technology to steal catcher signs and then relay them in real-time to batters in the box. While the investigation into that matter continues — we’ve already seen rather convincing documentation of at least some malfeasance — broader scrutiny has unsurprisingly begun.
The 2018 Red Sox team, which followed the Astros as World Series champs, now stand charged of misusing technology. As Evan Drellich and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic report (subscription link), on the basis of team sources, “at least some players visited the video replay room during games to learn the sign sequence opponents were using.” The behavior is said to have occurred during the regular season but not during the postseason.
The sources that spoke with The Athletic make clear that the Sox’ uniformed personnel made dedicated pursuit of electronic sign-stealing. But the approach was fundamentally different from that allegedly employed by the Astros. The Houston organization is said to have had a team employee watching a live game feed, conveying the pitch type via audio signal (banging on a trash can). In Boston, upon sussing out the signs, the Red Sox would reportedly utilize the information in a time-honored manner: runners reaching second base would look in at the catcher and then deliver the news to the hitter by some visual cue.
In spite of those differences, it seems clear that the Red Sox’ purported action also violated the rules. Per Drellich and Rosenthal, a league memo issued prior to the ’18 campaign provided: “Electronic equipment, including game feeds in the Club replay room and/or video room, may never be used during a game for the purpose of stealing the opposing team’s signs.” That wouldn’t appear to leave much room for interpretation.
Notably, the Boston organization was fined and chastised by commissioner Rob Manfred at the end of the 2017 season for improper utilization of technology. At the time, Manfred indicated that he had received assurances of future compliance from the Sox. The commissioner also provided in a press release: “[A]ll 30 Clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”
Cora is garbage and should be fired. How fitting that the signal was banging on a trash can. Don’t forget he was with the Astros when they cheated too.
I wonder if the Red Sox and Patriots share equipment to save on costs. Not like their seasons overlap…
Red Sox, Patriots, Astros, no difference.
I’m a huge Red Sox fan, you guys know that. Die hard. If they cheated in 2018 then nullify the season and take the ring away.
I hate an asterisk championship (they have a ring, but they cheated.) Strip it. Three legitimate in the last 15. Done.
Might as well fire Cora while you’re at it. No manager is above that crap.
Sure, and while we’re at it let’s strip away every World Series won before 1947 because they didn’t have to compete with black athletes, every World Series won since then because everyone was on amphetamines and/or steroids, and the last few because they *gasp* stole signs the wrong way!
What a ghastly and unforgivable black mark on a game that hitherto had been entirely pure, level playing field.
There were no banned substances in baseball until about 17 years ago, .Of course, you are right about how silly it would be to remove a WS trophy, because of this. H0wever there should be some form of serious punishment as a deterrent to stealing signs electronically.. To me this is worse than individual players taking drugs prior to banning them, this is cheating on a team scale.. Btw I have no problem with sign-stealing the old fashioned way, I would miss all those silly permutations of quirky signs, lol
Good analogy
That’s fine, it appears we got caught breaking a rule so take away a draft pick or picks, whatever the commissioner’s office feels is appropriate in proportion to the offense. Didn’t say they shouldn’t. But just dole out the punishment and move on, all this sanctimonious hand wringing over what amounts to taking the game’s most routine form of gamesmanship a step too far is ridiculous and a profound waste of everybody’s emotional energy.
Why can’t I find this article on MLBTR anymore? It was posted less than 8 hours ago and I went back over 24 hours on MLBTR and can find no record of its existence. What gives?
They have to be punished in some way but in my opinion this is not quite as egregious as what the Astros did. The Red Sox basically looked at footage that shows catchers putting up signs. We can all see that in our homes during the game. They then told runners at second base to alert batters what was going on. Runners at 2nd have been doing that for over a century. The main difference is that the runners were stealing the signs by eyesight (completely legal) in addition to looking at post game video. The main issue is that the Red Sox showed these videos during the game which is illegal because it doesn’t give opposing teams enough time to change their signs. There absolutely has to be punishment for this because it is clearly against the rules. At the same time, the punishment for the Astros has to be far more severe. The Red Sox did not have a non-player personell banging a trash can to alert hitters. They only did it when there players were good enough to reach second base, which has been going on for years. The only difference is that in the past only the most attentive runners with the best sight and vision who made it to 2nd base were capable of this. This isn’t the same as what the Astros did but it is clearly against the rules and must be punished albeit to a lesser degree.
On another note:
Why can we comment on this article but it is unavailable on the MLBTR website? I had to search Google to get here. Anyone else notice that? This article DOES NOT show up on the MLBTR website at all anymore. Other sites post it. Why did MLBTR take down their own article?
I guess the article is back now. I see it on the website. 9:36 pm Eastern
I detest the Sox, but I hate rewriting history even more. Just dock them an appropriate draft pick.
I agree with that, and I hate the Sox. All the holier than thou sanctimony grates on me. Just punish appropriately and move on. But don’t rewrite history by invalidating titles. I suspect most teams have tried to skirt the rules at times. Please do diligently enforce the rules through public punishment, but let’s not pretend this is evil, or especially rare. At its heart, this is just a game played among employees of the same overall organization for the right to fly a flag, and for our entertainment. Adjust the bonuses as punishment, dock the team a draft pick, but let’s not overplay this.
But you can’t deflate a baseball..;)
I’m honestly not sure what’s dumber. Getting up in arms about a baseball team doing something pretty much every baseball team has done or tried to do since the beginning of time, or blaming a somewhat underinflated and thus easier to throw football as the reason why the Colts lost a game in which they surrendered 148 rushing yards and 3 touchdowns to LeGarrette Blount.
OK, from a person who calls himself “DirtyWater”, and who sports a pair of red sox as his avatar, it’s just not credible to forgive two Boston teams and no one else. Why don’t you repost and dismiss some offense by a team from some other town, instead?
^This^
all teams steal signs always have and always will so deal with it or don’t watch sports.
It slows the game down.
Not with electronics they haven’t. I (and I’m guessing the vast majority of baseball fans) have no desire to watch a contest between two teams’ video booth nerds. It will absolutely destroy the sport if its allowed to reach logical conclusion. Fortunately, it’s pretty easy to prevent (the NFL does a pretty good job with it).
When did they start broadcasting games? That is when teams started studying the film to steal signs.
Get better at changing your signs.
It’s impossible to steal signs from typical TV broadcast footage because there’s a minimum 5-10 second delay between the actual event and the broadcast feed. This is done to blur potential wardrobe malfunctions before home viewers see them, bleep curse words for the same reason, and to prevent cheating in sporting events. The only way for teams to cheat using broadcast footage is to use their own live feed and remove the delay, which is straight up against the rules of the game. It’s not a matter of changing your signs because the runner on second stole them from the catcher, which is just resourceful playing. This is bad for the game.
left field.. learn what is legal and what is not. There is no problem with studying video after the game. The problem is during the game.
Oh wow, another morally challenged person who rationalizes it’s OK.
Baseball put forth an edict prior to the 2018 season that if you get caught doing it, the punishment would be severe. That’s where the Red Sox are in trouble.
As far as what the Astros did, you have to be on a different planet to rationalize that putting up a camera in CF and wearing electronic devices to home plate was just fine.
You have inside information that you know for a fact no other team has used electronics for sign stealing or are you just speculating? The Red Sox, and Astros appear to be the only teams currently caught or having admitted to such.
all New England teams**
Fixed it for you.
All the fans jealous of Boston going to speak out now with some opinion…..
If being a Boston fan is the most important thing in your life, than your life is just meaningless and sad. Nobody is jealous of Boston. The teams or city.
All the fans angry at Boston cheating*
Fixed it for you.
Using technology to steal and cheat is different than your runner on 2nd stealing signs. You are probably a RS fan and Patriots fan, and Astros fan.
Do you even understand what they are talking about. Every single team uses video to try to find out what there other teams signs are. All of them. They take the broadcasts of games against the team they are playing and before the game put them on the tablets that every team has in the dugouts.
Then when someone figures out what the signs mean they convey that to the other players.
If someone went into the video replay room and watched the game broadcast from an inning or two before so what? It’s not real time. Just change your damn signs every inning. If we could do it in college and the minors when I was playing, I’m sure they are smart enough to do it in the majors.
All the whiny people on here is funny.
That’s so bogus. Do you know what you’re talking about ? There’s a stark difference between electronic and a runner on second feeding signs. One is ok and the other is against baseball rules. Figure it out
Clearly a biased RS fan.
Hahahaha wrong again lil Davy!
All teams don’t.
Pirates Clearly don’t If they have been then they really stink!
Says every cheater. Get some integrity ya ignorant fool.
you’re a moron
Your team cheats. Guaranteed.
Sorry I don’t believe everything I read, anyone ever hear that of fake news?
Ahh… Alex Cora the man who turned down the White House visit after the World Series championship because he wanted billions given to Puerto Rico. Looks like he’s quite the perfect human being himself!
BINGO
Anyone notice that fans seem to care way more about this than players? Yeah probably because every team tries to do things like this to different extents
Lets all just chill, I support the league disciplining teams for things like this, but I also don’t get worked up about it
Came here for the scorching hot takes from the mouth breathing crowd, thanks for making sure I wouldn’t have to scroll too far down.
Man, you’re a hater. It doesn’t makes sense to me when there’s a video delay. Not sure how that works out.
Cheats
Rob Manfred fined chastised them? That was 2017 and we’re just now being told? If the commissioners job is to act in the best interest of baseball, he (Manfred) should immediately RESIGN. Manfred is destroying baseball. Come on owners, get rid of Manfred.
No, I’m pretty sure that part was public knowledge already.
It was reported a while back they got in trouble in a series vs the yanks in 2017 that they were investigated
Both the Yankees and the Red Sox were fined in 2017 for sign stealing; Yankees were also using a camera. Let’s face it, all teams try to steal/decode signs, but technology should NOT be used to do so. With that said, watching the replay of an at bat to figure out the signs so if there is a runner on second he can signal the batter later is a lot different than stealing signs ‘real time’ and signaling the batter via audio cues while in the batter’s box. I would think the Astros will get a much harsher penalty than the Red Sox will, but both teams should be disciplined accordingly to put an end to this tomfoolery.
Dorothy get your facts straight for once. Sox were fined for sign stealing. Yanks were fined for having a phone in the dugout. Big difference.
Uh no Yankees were fined for using said phone to relay stealing of signs.
All teams that are competing are trying to steal signs the funny thing is the teams that are tanking probably aren’t. Which is worse? Trying to steal signs to keep with the Jonses or tanking completely? I’m not sure both are bad.
“Via the YES network”
Bruin
Uh, no they were slapped with a small fine for having a phone in the dugout. The rest is conjecture/conspiracy theory spread almost entirely by Red Sox fans deflecting the Red Sox stolen sign scandal..
Yup like there are no other teams that a phone there dugout you make me laugh. It was widely stated that the both the Yankees and Red Sox were fined. The Red Sox were fined more because they used Apple watches thus taking it to the next level. The Yankees used cameras from Yes network and relayed the info period.
That camera was approved by MLB to use.
The incident in question that led to a fine was when Larry Rothschild used the phone to ask whether a particular pitch was a ball or a strike.
MLB has made it clear the Yankees are not under investigation for electronic sign stealing now
Bruin
You are still mistating fact. The fact is the two were fined for two different reasons. The Sox were signed for sign stealing, the Yankees were fined for having a phone in the dugout. Period.
I agree Dorothy, you’re on point.
The NYY used phone cuz they didn’t know bout the IPhone, lol.
Agree totally regarding Manfred resignation. In all my years, Manfred by far, is the poorest excuse for a commissioner that I can think of. He is pathetically slow to act on things of this nature – or implement changes that are needing to be considered. I still remember him stating at the time he got the job, that as long as he was commissioner, the DH in the NL would never happen.
ALL WORLD SERIES IN 2K ARE IN VEIN!!! Lol jk
Yeah….. I don’t think you know what that word means (nor how to spell it).
Great, now everyone is gonna start saying mookie betts sucks just like they say for altuve
I don’t think anyone with a brain would go that far, but it sure seems like more than a coincidence that 2018 was easily his best offensive season…
Too funny. So your saying you dont have a brain?
Reading isn’t your strength is it bud?
Nowhere did they say Betts “sucks”
What they did say was Betts posting a ops over 1.000 instead of .800 or .900 the same year they’re accused of cheating doesn’t seem like a coincidence.
Not surprised. Especially not from Boston. They’ll do anything to win, in any sport.
Won’t be surprised if more teams come out, either. MLB changed the reply system last year for a reason.
Every team sucks
so then does any team suck?
Okay, why wouldn’t they use this during the postseason? Easier to be caught or something compared to the regular season?
They only did it the times they got caught doing it just like the other cheaters.
For the 2018 postseason and the 2019 regurlar season, MLB placed a person in the video rooms to monitor and prevent teams from doing this.
Oh okay thank you!
If you subscribe to The Athletic (which I highly recommend if you don’t), there’s an article there stating that various anonymous Red Sox employees shared details on the cheating, including that the monitors were basically in the Red Sox pockets and a lot of the times they easily got around that and still cheated.
Quietly waiting for people to blame the Yankees for this…
yankees do cheat but they get away with because they are the yankees.
If the yanks cheat they do a very bad job at it. Problem for me is how does the GM and manager for the Astros not suspended for a year? Both are guilty and knew about the cheating. Any team that has a much higher home average and home runs should be investigated.
2017 Astros only scored 395 runs at home vs 501 on the road… whatever some idiot may have done with a trash can seems to have hurt more than it helped.
Maybe, but you forgot to subtract all the runs they scored at Comerica.
Haha probably coming from a fan of the Red Sox
The Yankees are the boogeymen. It’s always gotta be them.
Stop trying to make the Yankees relevant again. Lol No one cares about them! They haven’t won in more than a decade!
Yanks just use steroids
Literally all teams have players on steroids but I feel like there is this misconception that the Yankees do it more than others. The Yankees clearly have their share of offenders but the Red Sox has more people in their org with steroid suspensions than the Yankees did last year
mcmillankmm
Individuals use steroids, not teams. And at least A-Rod admitted it. Ortiz did not. Ortiz will die a fraud.
not going to lie, there is some basis given the two teams discovered. maybe not “blame,” but some will allege bias.
Reporting is yankees had players using the replay room in-game as far back as 2015, and, this reporting is on pro-yankees related news sites/blogs/stories
Time to ban use of tech during games including using tablets to watch video.
How about let the pitcher and catcher’s wear smart watches.
Somehow someone would hack into them I suppose
lets just ban games only on facebook and YouTube and call it a day
Seconded
Red Sox were caught cheating twice now. Let’s take a look at what the Yankees were doing, other then not winning the pennant.
Counter-offer: when allegations come out about the Yankees, then let’s talk about them okay?
Maybe read the article and it says they were doing this in 2017 as well
Which last I checked was before 2018, and Manfred and the league already took action on it and fined them (and the Red Sox)
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing. The Yanks were fined for having a phone in the dugout. Big difference. Time for the haters to get their facts straight.
Except for the fact that the article does not mention the Yankees at all. But okay I’ll read the article.
And said phone was used for….. relaying stolen signs.
So pot, meet kettle, get your facts straight
AltSoxFan
Yanks using phone to steal signs was not proven. Sox stealing sign was proven. Big difference.
“And it was confirmed that the Yankees have done in the past what the Red Sox are accused of doing in 2018. I’d imagine their illegal usage of the video room was not held to just that one season.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic.
The Yankees also had no remorse about doing it.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.””
So maybe we look a little further into the whole whistling thing and the complaints other teams made recently?
One has to admit, it is just a *little* too coincidental how every no name replacement level acquisition by cashman has come around hitting .300 when stuffed into a game…
Bwahahaha! Red Sox conspiracy theory number 4,591, Nice attempt at deflection. Sox caught stealing signs. Yankees? Not so much.
Also not so much in the World Series department
“And it was confirmed that the Yankees have done in the past what the Red Sox are accused of doing in 2018. I’d imagine their illegal usage of the video room was not held to just that one season.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic.
The Yankees also had no remorse about doing it.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.””
*The more I cut and paste the same quote out of context makes a strong argument*
What does this story have to do with the yankees? Lmao.
No whataboutism here
If you don’t believe that every team has done this, your are just fooling yourself.
Agreed. Maybe not every team, but top half of league for sure.
Steven you’re fooling yourself. Every team tried to get an edge, true. But only some teams will go beyond the rules to get one. It’s not that you get an edge that’s the issue…It’s how far over the line you go. The Astros and Red Sox need to be hit hard. Like no draft picks or international signings for 2 years, none as in zero
What you going to say when they find out half the league is doing it, including your favorite team?
Never heard this terrible argument before
Too easy. Think harder.
Learned lessons from Belichek.
At this point I’d rather teams just didn’t have replay access. The manager just has to make a gut decision whether to challenge.
That last paragraph just screams that nothing is going to happen to the Red Sox or Astros
I would love it if the Astros were stripped of their World Series
In order to do that, there would have to be irrefutable evidence that 29 other teams didn’t cheat. And anyone with a lick of sense knows all 30 teams are doing something, just haven’t got caught yet.
@DTD
How so? Taking a championship means that no team won because of cheating. It would not make any difference to prove more. Your scenario would only happen if MLB were to choose an alternative (non-cheating) winner.
DTD_ATL So, you are guilty until proven innocent. Wow, the Nixon defense… Everyone does it.
All 30 teams don’t do it. And the guilty need to be punished.
Everybody in the game says it’s a widespread issue. You’re naive to think it’s not done by almost every team.
JDGoat
Name everybody
I don’t think this is the case, at least with the Red Sox. The Red Sox were caught with the Fitbit incident in 2017 and MLB showed restraint in their punishment giving the Sox the benefit of the doubt saying the rules had a gray area. Prior to the 2018 season, MLB specifically said it was forbidden to use electronic equipment in any way to steal signs. According to the report, MLB was also given assurances specifically from the Red Sox that they were not using electronic means to steal signs. Manfred also made it clear to teams in September of 2017 how seriously he would take any future violations of teams using electronic equipment, including using the replay room, to streal signs. If MLB can corroborate the allegations in this story, I believe they will come down very hard on the Red Sox. I would not be surprised at all to see them lose multiple draft picks and face seven figure fines at the minimum.
This is really getting out of control, and it undermines the integrity of the game. Lose of draft picks and fines is not enough to make teams stop doing this, especially if they are winning championships. SEVERE punishments need to be handed down. Cora should be banned from baseball for one.
Because they already had their second base signs down by then
“Cheaters never win” has not held up very well as life advice.
No one seems to care anymore, for a variety of either selfish and/or cowardly reasons.
“… in the end.” Understand the concept of the quote and you’ll understand it a little more.
A cheater will succeed temporarily but they’ll never win in the end.
Congrats to the Dodgers for being back to back World Series champs!!!!!!
I seriously don’t have a problem with that. Signed, Red Sox fan.
I have been a passionate Sox fan since 1990 when I remember coming home from school to see Clemens get tossed vs Oakland. That began a never ending roller coaster of emotions. Baseball has been my heart and my life for so long, second to only family and my dogs.
Any Sox fan who says they weren’t subconciously awaiting this other shoe to drop is a liar. I knew this was coming and now the memory of 2018 is stained forever and I am closer now to tossing all of my Sox merch (I know, its immature and pointless and barely symbolic) .. but I am done with this team. Every year since 04 I have found myself becoming more and more jaded with the corporate mindset of this game and this story just breaks me.
I am done with this team.
End rant.
Eveone enjoy their day!
Drama is your thing
It’s funny that the rocket got tossed in the A’s playoff game, but not after launching a broken bat at Mike Piazza. A fan can reach over the wall and catch derek cheater’s routine fly / “home run” and he’s a hero, but a fan in Chicago? Now the yankee unfaithful have a new tear stained story to use to blow their noses. Honk!
Deflection, whyhater. Psych 101.
You have integrity, dynamite.
sounds like you’re just a dramatic baby who was looking for an out. Don’t let the door hit you!
Oh yeeeeeaaah, I TOTALLY believe they stopped in the postseason. Just like I believe that the Patriots could win a Super Bowl without cheating.
MLB had a person in the video rooms during the postseason, so it couldn’t be done. Also, the Patriots “cheating” never helped them win any Super Bowls, that was all regular season nonsense. And before you even bring up “Deflategate”, the Colts only scored 7 points in that game, they weren’t winning no matter what Brady did with his balls…
Your naivety is mesmerizing.
28-3
Deflategate was the biggest crock of shiiit and if any pee brain believes any of the garbage that came out from that…. you are just a moron. As a Red Sox fan…. I hope Cora is suspended for his role in the Astros debacle and would not lose any sleep if he ever Manages another game…. Jason varitek should be hired as his replacement.
If I’m the mlb, I’m either making one of two changes. Get rid of replay departments all together and have managers make split second decisions, or have every play automatically reviewed by a replay umpire/league. There’s no reason teams need iPads or communication from the dugout to any other part of the team. Let the game be decided by the players and coaches.
Absolutely spot on. Waiting on your replay team, while you wait, arguing on the top step, is a waste of time. Set a limit of 5-10 seconds on the right to challenge.
Its unreal that MLB allows so much time to make a decision on challenging a play, while also coming up with dumb strategies to increase “pace of play”.
i think having replay rooms is fine as long as they are connected to the dugout so that they can be monitored by the league.
Probably done it in 2013 too, if they did, The Sox need to turn in their rings for the last 2 WS.
Cora wasn’t with the Red Sox in 2013, so no.
JFC, Houston indoctrinates corruptness.
Why would one need the replay room? Couldn’t virtually anyone watching the game, on any device, get the same sequence?
Yes, except teams have gotten wise and started using very complex signs and changing them frequently (the Yankees literally change them every inning when they play certain teams, including the Astros and Red Sox). You could figure them out at home, sure, but by the time you do the inning will be almost over. The replay guys can get very good at it by doing it every day every inning.
If true?
250 percent international spending fine over the next three cycles, and a loss of 15 draft picks over the next two drafts, including both firsts.
Astros get five more picks lost, over three years, including all three firsts, with the same international penalty.
All the picks get moved to after Round 40. Every other pick moves up, and non-cheating teams get more draft space and international spending space.
Who’s next?
All front office facility bathrooms will now be stocked with Great Value brand toilet paper. That will really show them.
Fig leaves.
I can see only one fitting punishment…..franchise relocation
Who’s next to come out of Boston as a cheat, the Bruins? Suspend Baseball and Football from that city for a year. Everything that comes out of that city is shady and a cheat. Go Hawks!
Zdeno Chara is actually an alien from Moron Mountain.
Marchand Cheats. or at least does a ton of cheap and creepy stuff. Wonder if his wife likes him licking other players?
I was waiting for this kind of ignorance
Finally some off season Red Sox news as they have done nothing since hiring Bloom other than talking about getting payroll below $208M and increasing ticket prices. Oh wait this is about stealing signs…..meh. Watch them get penalized by having to draft even lower then their already penalized draft position
If teams agree to these rules, they need to follow them. If they want to limit it to unfair physical advantages (i.e., PEDs, altering baseballs or bats, etc.), then that’s fine as long as it’s clear. Scouting will not go away. If that can’t include learning teams’ signals and plays, then stick to that. I doubt teams change all of their play calls after they release players that could be picked up by rivals.
There’s a difference between scouting and using cameras to creep.
The way this seems worded is that it would have only been useful if a man was on 2nd to relay the signs he picked up on in the video room. This doesn’t look good, but it doesn’t seem quite as dirty as the Astros. Why weren’t they doing this in 2019 though?
To me, if only the players who reach second are able to pick up signs and relay them, it’s fine. The opposing team has the ability to change signs if they pick up on it (which any good catcher should always be vigilant of).That’s good baseball imo.
But, a non-player using tech to steal signs, crosses the line because it is more conspicuous. Also, even if the team changes signs, the same non-player will keep working to steal the new signs from behind the scenes/outside the lines.
This guy gets it. A runner stealing signs from second base can’t be helped. That is part of the game. A non-player stealing signs in any fashion is never kosher.
I don’t blame the player who doesn’t know this is against the rules. But i do blame the team for breaking the rules. This rule is not intuitive.
This is not like Astros allegedly wearing electronic patches tipping them off what pitch was coming next.
Anyway, baseball has the evidence. I’m looking forward to seeing how this is resolved.
Every player should know what the rules are for stealing signs. Every player should be held accountable.
It’s called a brushback. Those aren’t acceptable these days. That’s how you hold hitters accountable.
Teams have been stealing signs since the 1870s.
If u aint cheating, u aint trying
RickEO has viven us a great example of what is wrong with everything in sports and life. Come on everyone, lets cheat. Don’t you want to win? Aren’t you trying? What a bunch of crap!
@mistry gm PSSSSST! That is an old quote from at least the 70’s when Richard Petty said it. Lighten up Francis !
Everyone that beats the Yanks is a cheater. This is a can of worms
*Article about the cheating allegations surrounding solely the Astros and Red Sox*
“ThIs Is ThE yAnKeEs FaUlT”
You seriously think this issue only applies to the Astros and Red Sox? Lol
No lol. But when an article is only about certain teams that allegations pertain to, I prefer to limit the speculation to those teams. Once more comes out, then I’ll be willing to discuss about other teams. Lol
Although this allegation is a clear violation of the rules, i can understand why a player would do it with the misunderstanding he’s not breaking the rules.
But the allegation of Astro batters wearing electronic devices to get signs is knowingly breaking the rules.
Baseball needs to do something, and I hope they do enough.
Players can’t get away with saying they don’tknow the rules. Ever. They must be held accountable for knowing the rules of stealing signs. Period.
To quote one article:
“And it was confirmed that the Yankees have done in the past what the Red Sox are accused of doing in 2018. I’d imagine their illegal usage of the video room was not held to just that one season.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic.
The Yankees also had no remorse about doing it.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.””
Hrmm…
haha this is great. whole league is cheaters…or maybe the rule book needs to be more specific.
I believe the rule book specifically states that teams are not allowed to use electronic means to film opponents and use that information during the games.
Deliberate obfuscation, beginning with the Nixon defense, ending with the “how could we have known?” defense.
Remember when somwone caught Darvish “tipping off his pitches”? That wasn’t picked up by some guy sitting in the dugout.
always odd when a guy suddenly starts “tipping.” youd think if one team could see it (legally) than all would.
I liked Cora but he’s in the middle of 2 huge scandals for World Series winning teams. Has to be fined, picks lost, and at least suspended. You can tell me everyone steals signs in one way shape or form but they went to the extreme and got caught.
People are still trying to reason that sign stealing has been going on since the game was invented, and this isn’t any different?
Oh, so it’s OK then. So if a new rule/law is passed,, it doesn’t have to be followed because it use to be OK.
Imagine my shock that the red sux lack integrity
Paul Revere was stealing signs. It all started in Boston.
Bobby, How often are they playing the Astros? And maybe they are covering up their own butt.
Fiers and his new teammates pitch against the Astros. Is there anyone on planet Earth who is not going to tell their new pitching teammates that their opponent are stealing signs?
Of course he’s going to warn his team. OF COURSE.
How does anyone think this is not going to get out?
my original post got censored for some reason… guess the mods can’t tolerate logic or reason when it’s Astro-Bashing Season.
I don’t support cheating if the Astros in fact did so, but the rules need to be applied fairly and equally to all teams, which a punishment of only the Astros would not achieve.
Mike Fiers may have told the truth or he may have exaggerated, I don’t know, I’m just saying that he left the team with an axe to grind… which has been conveniently ignored by most of baseball fandom, as has the fact that the scandal he kicked off will help his own team tremendously. Truly an odd way to bring down a division rival.
Joe Musgrove pitched in the same rotation and bullpen as MIke Fiers in 2017 and he thinks the Astros are being unfairly targeted… the truth likely likes somewhere in between the way Fiers and Musgrove portray the situation.
Enforce the rules but don’t single out just one team when it was a league-wide problem, is all I”m saying.
No other teams have been caught going to the extreme the Astros did.
Sign-“reading” by a runner on second is a) allowed in the rules and b) is on the defense, pure and simple. You can probably assume every team tries, or has tried, to do this, some more successfully than others.
This other garbage deserves severe punishment. In some cases, depending on culpability …or being the designated fall guy, to the Pete Rose limit.
Can’t trust those Boston teams.
I believe the Red Sox had the highest average with RISP in 2018. Funny how that works ;-).
Honestly though, all teams are aware that the home teams may be using electronics to get an advantage so they should be changing their sign sequence every inning.
So you’re telling me the Dodgers are the rightful 2017 and 2018 world series champs? Interesting
Really waiting for Baseball to end this cheating. Just like they got right on ending steroid use, and telling us the ball is not juiced. Bunch of moops.
Given that there are so many ways to convey the pitch to the hitter now, that they should just allow the defensive team to wear earpieces. A coach or even the pitcher could call the pitch.
And that signal would be hacked, or intercepted, when?
Works in the NFL
I’d like to know more about what was going on here.
It sounds like players would learn the alphabet so to speak from the video guys.
But as far as an actual real-time sign during an AB, those they stole and relayed looking in from 2B the way players always have?
To me that’s somewhat different.
Yeah look at our pitching staff last year, and talk to me about stealing signs… someone is full of it!
Tough time for E!SPN. Their beloved Patriots and Red Sox are busted as cheaters (again), and their beloved Tom Brady may retire or go elsewhere. What will they do? There must me utter chaos in their HQ office.
Sounds like Cora was in the middle of both. Sounds like a pretty corrupt guy.
c’mon give Cora a break!
clearly he’s a fan of Eddie Guerrero:
“Cheat To Win!”
“If You’re Not Cheating, You’re Not Trying!”
LATINO HEEEEEEEEEEEEAT!
I love you for that
There are no rules against studying another team’s signs and then using that in a game. There are tablets in every dugout that can display video from any previous game and every broadcast has shots from the centerfielder camera.
There are only rules about doing it in real time. That was the problem with what the Red Sox, Yankees, and Astros were caught doing in 2017.
And the Red Sox again in 2018 after MLB tighten rules in an attempt to stop it from happening. If MLB wants any chance of getting out in front of this, they need to throw the book at the Red Sox to make sure teams understand that the consequences outweigh the benefits.
You typically don’t throw the book out at someone for committing a previously unconsidered improper act, if that is indeed the case here. You change the rules or disseminate a memo clarifying existing rules. It’s possible (this posting doesn’t make it clear) that the league explicitly or implicitly did NOT intend such behavior to be included in the scope of the cited memo. If so, doesn’t much make sense to “throw the book” (if not, sure, throw the book).
Obviously you haven’t read the report or can’t comprehend what you do read. I’ll try to simplify this for you.
Before the 2018 season, Manfred says, “All teams stop using electronics to steal signs. This includes the video replay booth.”
The Red Sox said, “I don’t care what you say MLB commissioner. We’re going to continue to ignore the rules and use electronics to steal signs even though we were just fined for breaking this rule.”
Do you now understand what this story is about?
The Yankees were not caught stealing signs. They were fined for having a phone in the dugout. Stop spreading false rumors. The Red Sox and Astros were caught stealing signs. Big difference.
Not caught? Or not sensationalized (yet) because they didn’t win a world series?
Quote:
“And it was confirmed that the Yankees have done in the past what the Red Sox are accused of doing in 2018. I’d imagine their illegal usage of the video room was not held to just that one season.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic.
The Yankees also had no remorse about doing it.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.””
ESPN in full panic mode now.
Ken Rosenthal’s 3 unnamed sources, possibly:
1. Blake Swihart
2. Craig Kimbrel
3. MOOKIE BETTS
All 3 of these guys have bones to pick with the Red Sox.
I’m going to guess that it was pitchers who were against them doing it. Ex Red sox pitchers from 2018 were Porcello, Pomeranz, Kimbrel, Joe Kelly, and Beeks. I’d guess Porcello and Pomeranz for sure and one of the others. Probably Kelly
The cited league memo actually does have room for interpretation. In technical terms, the players are the ones “stealing” the signs while on base, and the video room would have been used to educate the players to prepare them for stealing signs, not to actively steal the signs. If interpreted broadly, such education could be lumped into the sign stealing act cited in the memo, but if interpreted narrowly it does not. As is often the case with judicial rules on the law, when the text is not worded tightly enough it falls to whomever is in judgement to use a process (sometimes legislative intent, sometimes textual) to render a precedent-setting interpretation on the text itself. If such an interpretation does not already exist, it can at times be used to defend a party against the application of a law.
Another cheating Boston team, who wudda think ?
The Boston press will cat wash Cora when they interview him.
This seems a lot tougher to prove as they can say they where looking at the pitches not the signs.
*Commissioner’s Office: (calls Astros) “Hey did you cheat?”
Astros: “Nope, no way, lol we’re just the best team ever.”
Commissioner’s Office: (hangs up, but says aloud) “Darn it, I really thought we had em. Investigation solved.”*
This is why I feel there will be some fine/penalty, but not the “book throwing”.
No actual signs were stolen or relayed through technology. This is not much different than a coach teaching a player before the game what to look for…
someone working for the team is educating the player HOW to recognize/steal the sign using previous pitches, but, on a given pitch nobody but a player on the field is actually stealing THAT particular sign or relating it to another player in real time on the field.
This is different than 2017 boston relaying signs with a watch, or 2017 yankees relaying a sign through a phone. Also different than 2017-up astros relaying through banging or electronic devices, and different than 2019 yankees whistling and making noises from dugout.
Yankees were not caught relaying a sign with a phone. Stop spreading lies. They were caught with a phone in the dugout. Boston was caught stelaing signs. Big difference. Whistling from the dugout is pure conspiracy theory.
Yankees were accused by the Astros (of all teams) of using a camera zoom to zoom in to see the Astros’ catcher’s signs in 2018. They were also using a video replay room to steal signs back in 2015, according to sources.
If we’re using hearsay as fact, add the Yankees to your list Mo.
Can you explain what hearsay is?
Would you like the regular version or Urban Dictionary?
The definition of the way in which you are using it, thank you in advance.
Yankees have been caught. It’s sexier to put a WS winner leading the headline. Do some digging…
Quote:
“And it was confirmed that the Yankees have done in the past what the Red Sox are accused of doing in 2018. I’d imagine their illegal usage of the video room was not held to just that one season.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic.
The Yankees also had no remorse about doing it.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.””
Unless I missed something, any mention of the “2019 Yankees” and “whistling” is the report that the Yankees thought the Astros were whistling to relay signs.
So much for Alex Cora being the beacon of morality. The good thing is he has no shortage of self-righteousness.
Sounds like several teams are utilizing certain camera tactics given the rumors and whispers reported over the last 5 years. MLB will have to come up with a new rule to sort this out.
We aren’t basing this on “rumors and whispers.” Only the Astros and Red Sox are doing that, to deflect attention.
Years ago if you were caught stealing signs, you were getting a heater in the ribs or chin music, now if you pitch inside players cry, pitchers get warned or ejected, let the players police this! If that doesn’t work let the catcher visit the pitcher after every pitch, let’s watch 10 hour games
Thank you. Take the arm and forearm guards off the hitters, force them to stand off the plate, give pitchers that outside and the best hitters will still find a way to remain the best. The games will go by quicker, pitchers will throw over 200 innings again and the game will be better for it. Stop policing the pitchers. If a sign is being stolen let them handle business.
Am a Red Sox fan that hates Cora, hope he gets fired.
I don’t think any of the teams should have access to video technology, in the dugout, clubhouse or anywhere else during games. The entire idea of video replay has opened everything up to include in game stealing of signs plus I hate it when the team views it on video first before deciding to challenge the call!
Alex Cora back in the hot seat lol
The Athletic is just a gossip rag and until the sources are named this has absolutely no credence. Really getting tired of all this nonsense. I was watching a Dodgers Rockies game last year….and by the third inning just from watching closely I knew 90% of the pitches Ryu was throwing after watching the signs the catcher was giving…. this off a TV Broadcast. So please tell me how people do not think every team is not doing some type of this. How about playing better than the other team and stop making excuses…. freaking analytic geeks are ruining Baseball.
OMG stealing signs? Next thing you know pitchers will be altering baseballs or batters will alter bats to get an advantage. What is this world coming to!!!!!!! LMAO geez play ball, and forget this bs, it’s baseball, everyone tries to get an advantage. But most fail
And cops should let everyone break the law, because everyone does it. Everyone doesn’t do it. And honest people should be protected from those who do.
There really is no surprise here. The Yanks called our Boston and what did MLB do? Slap them on the wrists and warned the Yanks for answering the bullpen phone in the dugout!!!!! What a joke Mlb has become and they better cone down hard on the Astros and Red Sox! Two teams that cheated and won!
A year from now we will learn that the Nationals had some intricate system of communicating pitches to their batters and that’s how they won in 2019. And so the fans rub their hands and gnash their teeth and shout “Off with their heads!” as they type their vitriol. Blather.
cheating just comes natural in Boston. they may have superbowls and WS titles but they are all tainted just like barry bonds and roger Clemmons
If it is shown that Cora knew about or sanctioned this,he should be suspended for a season. Managers need to be accountable for this kind of cheating.
Who cares. We live in a dishonest society from top to bottom, so why is this any different. Cheat away. Rules and laws are made to be broken. The smart don’t get caught. Fine them, slap their hands, move on, catch the next one.
Sign stealing has been and always will be a part of the game. We used to steal signs in high school, coach would tell us if we found a sign relate to the guy standing on second and we would relay it to the batter. The only difference now is that they’re using technology to steal the signs which is where the cheating comes from.
These remarks are dumb. Just control it. Every team every sport look for competitive advantage. Sign stealing has been going on forever. If you think all teams haven’t tried using technology the past few years then you’re naive.