Payroll concerns have been the prominent storyline of the Red Sox offseason, especially given the team’s relative lack of major moves. There has been much more attention paid to the club’s apparent attempts to trade such high-salaried players as David Price, Nathan Eovaldi, Jackie Bradley Jr., or perhaps even Mookie Betts in order to avoid surpassing the Competitive Balance Tax threshold for the third consecutive season, based on comments made by Red Sox principal owner John Henry last September.
During a season wrap-up press conference, Henry said “This year we need to be under the CBT. That is something we’ve known for more than a year now.” This statement was already partially walked back by team CEO Sam Kennedy a few days later, as Kennedy said that avoiding a luxury tax penalty was “goal but not a mandate” for the coming season.
Henry further discussed the team’s financial direction in a recent e-mail exchange with Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe. This past week, Shaughnessy contacted top executives with the Red Sox and the umbrella Fenway Sports Group ownership company asking “I am working on a column in which I will suggest that there was no plan to disclose the mandate to get under the $208MM luxury tax threshold before you went into the September 27 press conference. It felt like John just came out with it spontaneously. And now that is the charge for [newly-hired chief baseball officer] Chaim Bloom. Is this accurate?“
In response to the question, Henry sent this message…
“You might actually be right for once in that I don’t plan what I’m going to say before answering media questions in a live media event. But this focus on CBT resides with the media far more than it does within the Sox. I think every team probably wants to reset at least once every three years — that’s sort of been the history — but just this week…I reminded baseball ops that we are focused on competitiveness over the next 5 years over and above resetting to which they said, ’That’s exactly how we’ve been approaching it.’ ”
“You seem to think Chaim was brought in to reduce payroll. That has simply not been the way FSG operates here or across the pond. We try to act responsibly so as to be consistently competitive. Your main point seems to be that I accidentally disclosed a secret plan but unlike you, I am honest about Sox issues. The question was asked and I answered it.”
Whereas Henry’s September comment about the “need to be under the CBT” seemed rather direct, this latest statement implies that Henry was only speaking in broader terms about his team’s (or any team’s) long-term payroll goals. Obviously, every club would prefer to avoid the luxury tax whenever possible, and especially avoid three straight years of CBT overages to avoid the maximum “three-timer” penalty of a 50% tax rate on any overages.
According to Roster Resource’s Jason Martinez, the Red Sox have a luxury tax number of just under $237.89MM for their 2020 payroll, putting them in line for a third straight year of overages. The Sox already surpassed the CBT threshold in both 2018 and 2019, costing them roughly (by the estimate of Cot’s Baseball Contracts) $25.37MM in tax payments. Also, for spending more than the maximum $40MM over the threshold in 2018, Boston’s top pick in the 2019 draft was dropped back ten slots in the draft order.
(As always, it should be noted that the CBT isn’t at all a hard salary cap, so a “need” to avoid the tax is ultimately more of an ownership preference for both the Red Sox and any other team in baseball. To use Boston’s overages from the last two years as an example, $25.37MM over a two-year span isn’t exactly a major expenditure for any franchise, especially a big-revenue club like the Red Sox.)
To this point, it’s been a pretty quiet offseason for Bloom and his front office. While the club hasn’t shed any of its heftiest contracts, the Sox also haven’t made any big expenditures, with Martin Perez and Jose Peraza representing Boston’s most notable additions. Given that there has been virtually no buzz connecting the Red Sox to any major free agents or trade targets, it’s probably safe to assume that the team’s payroll won’t be going up. While Bloom may not be under any overt directive to cut salaries, the question may be just how a fine line Bloom has to walk in trying to keep the team competitive in 2020 while not incurring an even larger luxury tax bill.
Henry – told the truth “I want to reset cap”
Hired GM
Problem is nobody wants RSox players at their salaries and have to give up players or prospects
Agreed. Sox might be better off focusing on lesser contracts that are still bad, like Rougned Odor, Wil Myers, and Odubel Herrera (although in that last case, I don’t know many details but I expect them to know/learn them and make a more appropriate decision).
You are 100% right with this. I take simply the best deal for Price that takes the most $$$ off with it. There will nothing more than a very low prospect coming back.
If the players can’t be traded for anything of value then just roll out the balls in February and take their chances.
Betts and JBJ are FAs after the year and make up $38 MM in salary. Add JDM to that list (he has another opt out) and $61 MM is coming off of the books.
Let us see how the team does in the first half of 2020 and move guys at the deadline if they underperform.
Henry and FSG have the money, let them overspend for one more year.
Yanks fan here. Getting under the cap shouldn’t be the end-all-be-all at the expense of an already depleted farm system. Every upper-tier prospect should even be valued more in this case. Red Sox aren’t exactly hurting for money if no one gets dealt nor should they completely rule out resigning Betts. They’re in New England and their fanbase aren’t going to suddenly bail out for another team if the RS are bad for a few years.
Lower, it’s the non financial penalties that is the number one issue and why they need to reset.
Maybe this will put to rest the nonsensical Benitendi/Price package trades everyone insisted would have to happen…
I wouldn’t BETTS on it!
I’m here all week, try the pasta and tip your server!
Why? Price’s contract is ridiculously underwater and Benitendi is not as good as Red Sox fans think he is.
But he is still better than any other outfielder you can sign for $5 million. And that’s all he needs to have any trade value…
$5 million? No. More like $15 million. That Price deal is horrible.
Benintendi is 25. You have no idea how good he might be. Many great players never made it to the majors until they were 25.. I bet you were saying that Devers was an over-rated bum last January.
Jack, Benny will never be worth as much to trade as now. The team in my view should replenish the farm this off season and he’s the one guy along with ERod who can return a lot assuming Devers is not being moved. Next off season, they will spend again or even trade for expensive players. Trading Benny now is really taking a page out of Tampa’s playbook.
This absolutely makes no sense…. Why trade a player they have control of at 25 years old for at least 3 or 4 more years…coming off a down year. Benintendi is better than what he showed last year and Alex Cora completely screwed him up having him bat leadoff first couple months. You all need to be patient, a team will take Price and pay at least 70% of his current contract…. San Diego…… Price and JBJ for Margot and either Baez or Morejon….. Sox pick up 30 Million of remaining 3 years on Price.
There’s always risk in keeping a player too long or trading him before he fully develops. The team though can replace an outfielder. You don’t give him away but if a team is willing to send pitchers with upside, I’m willing to wait for them to develop. It’s just a question of what Benny really is. Is he the hype that came his rookie season or is last year really what he is? My point was he will soon start to cost money and with three seasons of control, his value is peaking now.
As a Padres fan, I hope the Padres are not stupid enough to do something like that.
Benintendi put up a 2.0 WAR in 2019 after 4.4 WAR in 2018. He is going into his age 25 season when players peak between 26-30. He may not be the superstar some Red Sox think he is, but he is a starting OF on pretty much any team. For $5 million he is a bargain. Considering he is not a free agent for 3 more seasons, he would be a valuable trade chip.
I don’t think the Red Sox will trade Benintendi. Even though he only has one season of control, Betts would be worth much more in trade. The surplus value of an 6-8 WAR player making only $27 million is much more than a 2 WAR player making $5-15 million per season over the next 3 years.
Don’t agree at all Koamalu. Many teams are already priced out of getting Mookie and the team that trades for Benny is looking through rose colored lenses and sees his 2018 year as a starting spot. I don’t see him that way but many do and thus his high trade value.
Benny Bulked up last year (not to his advantage) and along with what I said in Previous note in Cora Batting him leadoff made him very selective versus attacking pitches. .He is more of the player he was in 2018….. 20 to 25 HRS, 90 RBI’s and around .300 Average… plus he is an overall decent Outfielder. You are underselling him based on one off year.
Cooper since I really don’t see a trade coming, I hope you’re right. I’ve never though said to just give him away but look at Tampa’s recent trades. If Bloom saw long term value, I’d trust his judgment. I’m just not sure Benny will be worth what I expect he’ll get in subsequent arb years.
Dodgers would, rightfully, demand some major concessions to take both
Betts and Price in any deal.
Mookie Betts is a Difference maker. The Dodgers would be lucky to have him. You can take price as the major concession involved. We’ll take a couple young guys to make it a fair deal.
Anyone who has to Betts’ AND Price’s salary is not going to be giving much in terms of prospects. I could be wrong but I think that deal combination has already been explored, and teams are not offering much beyond Betts and Price combined, which is why Betts and Price remain on the Red Sox.
I’m being optimistic 🙂
Timing is important. The teams likely have discussed the framework of a trade and Boston is likely waiting for other big ticket items 5he Dodgers are kicking the tires on to sign and if they sign elsewhere, perhaps the Dodgers will re-think things. As good as they are, they’ve won bupkis and as Gary inferred, if you believe Mookie puts you over the top, you overspend. The Cubs knew how good Torres was and still traded him for Chapman. Same thing here IF Friedman believes Mookie is the difference maker.
Yes they would. Money.
Betts, Price and $36-45 million. For Verdugo, May, and a couple of other decent prospects.
Even in limited innings, of the returning pitchers only Kershaw and Buehler were better than Price last season. With that much of his salary being paid by the Red Sox, Price has value on his own.
Betts is one of the best players on the planet. A difference maker. He is worth more than what the Yankees got for Chapman. Start with that to estimate a return. A top 25 prospect, a top 100 prospect, a major league reliever with a mid 3s career ERA, and a low level prospect is what the Cubs gave up for 2 months of Chapman. Verdugo, May, Gonsolin, and a low level prospect like Sheffield would be a realistic return if he was traded to the Dodgers without Price. The less money the Red Sox send along with Price and Betts, the more likely that the return I outlined for Betts alone is all they could get.
not impossible to do both, but sure as heck hard.
And that’s exactly what they’re trying to do, both. However, staying pat like we have been isn’t accomplishing either. We’re currently looking like a wild card hopeful that’s 30 million above the CBT.
Red Sox are a long shot for even a W/C berth
Agreed. Lame duck year. That’s why we get rid of Betts and anyone else we can. Then we go for it again next winter.
I’ve tried to balance my negativity with remembering 2013. If players stay healthy, the team even without Mookie can win. Devers, Boegarts and JDM are as good a threesome as there is. If Benny and Vasquez have career years and two of Dalbec, Chavis and yes Holt produce, the offense will be fine. Even without everything, the team will go as far as their pitching will take them.
No it’s easy. Just reset and then blame the players for not being. competitive…
It is obvious that Henry is feeling the heat for the lack of moves to improve the team from RSN. As a result he is backtracking on his plans to get under the tax. Problem is this is not a playoff team anyway and Betts will simply walk as a FA after 2020 anyway and we will stil be stuck with an even older Price.
Wait until NESN ratings tank. Why do you thing the team spent on Hanley and Panda? They had to do something regenerate TV buzz.
So true. The panda signing was solely to sell panda gear and create buzz. The Hanley signing though made sense until they said it was for left field lol
They hired not just a replacement for DD but Bloom, a so called expert at finding undervalued players. Tampa should be commended for being mostly competitive year in and year out in recent times but the bottom line is they haven’t won a WS and the only smaller market club to do so in recent times was Kansas City which spent more in doing so than they ever did before and knew it was short term spending. Sox will again spend after this year but the only way they don’t reset this year is if there are no offers that allow them to do so. Regardless of the threshold implications, I’ve been the one who consistently has suggested trading Bettinendi, Why? Because while he’s been a fine major leaguer, he hasn’t produced up to expectations and his expensive years will soon hit in. He will likely never be worth more than right now and that has been Tampa’s M.O. while they easily afford him next year assuming they reset this year, the question I ask myself is would they be better with him in left or center or would the return be better for say 2022 and they instead sign someone else for the same or less cost? The team needs pitching and I think he can get back one or two arms that at least one can be an inexpensive starter.
The degree of starter is the real question. You don’t want to trade an everyday (slightly) above avg OF for a back starter with questionmarks.
It will be really interesting to see what happens.
Learn to get at least CLOSE to the spelling of his name before you trade him.
Wow Randy, that was an important point you made.
More important than any of the “points” you made.
Your entitled to your opinion as am I. Spelling being important? Maybe I should try talk radio where spelling doesn’t matter. Tough crowd…
Shaughnessy is a hack and the biggest “tool” in the Shed.
Dewey…. 1st I agree with your name…. you keep stating that now is time to get the most Value in trading Benny…. That is so far from the truth based on last years down year.
Cooper. I was hoping he’d have gotten in so I could change the name to Looiebelongsinthehall. Anyway, I don’t agree. There are so many teams that some will disregard last year. The Mets come to mind but they don’t have the pitching to trade because I’m thinking minor league talent – like what Tampa just moved to St. Louis. Of course it’s a risk but we have no choice right now but to trust in Bloom and it just feels like a trade he’d make.
Always surprised to see these multi-millionaire owners use such a petty and nasty tone when dealing with the press. Shaughnessy was being totally reasonable.
It’s a constant back and forth. Press has almost always been super nosy and persistent about getting information and sticking their heads where they “shouldn’t.” Obviously, that’s their job, but it just gets annoying for the people they’re writing about, especially when those people feel that the press misrepresents them.
Boo goo for these elite powerful people who just can’t get a fair shake in life! *eyeroll*
Fun fact that you may or may not know: Henry OWNS the Boston Globe. So, on the one hand it’s nice that he allows his reporters to poke around (probably more than he’d like) without threatening them (that we know of anyway) on the other hand it’s kind of amazing that he’d be condescending to Shaughnessy and freely allow that message to be publicly broadcast (assuming he didn’t care).
Shaughnessy deserves every bit of it. I’ve never even seen Henry show any kind of spine before. It’s hilarious.
But he is still a proven jerk.
Shaughnessy is a hack and the biggest “tool” in the Shed.
Price may have to start season like last year and then get moved in July before close to value comes back. I could see Boston not paying that much of his contract he’s hot like he was until he hurt his wrist and a contender needed a solid veteran. Grienke got moved owed 3m more perseason with Dbacks paying 10m per and is several years older as example
No injury history with Grienke and it’s risky because another injury or simply a lousy start and you’re stuck with him. The first offer that means your minimum established return and you pull the trigger.
there aren’t going to be any return unless sox eat, say, $20 mil per season.
In today’s market, Price is overpaid by about $10m/year and he can change that if he pitches well to start the season. I don’t know if he has it in him, but I really think he’d be great in the NL with the Dodgers.
I know some Red Soxs fans have that belief, but that’s not good enough. Dodgers needs come playoff time are pretty simple, they need a TOR starter to fit with Buehler and a solid vet #4, unless there is a unexpected revitalization in a guy like Nelson to fill that backend role. There is an easy argument about Price no longer being that ceiling guy they should be looking for unless it comes with Betts. With the injuries, most notably elbow issues and other issues, over the past two seasons there are enough red flags to understand why teams are proceeding with caution.
The only reason the Price/Betts convo made a sense for the Dodgers is as a concession to get Betts somewhat cheaply in a prospect package. And good on the Red Soxs, at least at the moment, for not making that concession as they should not entertain that idea. The Dodgers have a slew of young exciting arms that Price gets in the way of, at least at the onset to take that risk at this point. So if there is interest in Price at the TDL, seems like he’d basically have to pitch as an Ace without semblance of injury. It might be different if they had that set 1/2 punch and Price was a potential cherry on top, but I can’t see it at this time.
Ok so competitiveness above reset is nice words, but so far the big off-season addition can be debated between Martin Perez and Jose Peraza. Which of these players is supposed to turn an 84 win team into a postseason competitor?
Good point!
It’s mostly the same team that won it all and was unstoppable in ‘18, though. They just bottomed out last year. It’s not like they are lacking some great pieces, especially on offense.
Mostly the same team, too bad they had to cut the video camera from the roster
Not to mention the replay room and the complicit front office
Since virtually the same cast won 118 games the year before, it is far from certain that the team needs a big-offseason addition. They need continued development from the young players. a return to form by Sale, and as with most teams, some injury avoidance.
108, not 118.
If you count the playoffs it’s closer to 118
True, Yankee fans usually forget about the playoff wins that are so tough for NY to get.
I’ll take the NYY record over RS any day of the week. 4 WS in 100+ years? I’ve seen 8 in my lifetime so far. Let’s see how you do.
Imagine bragging about wins after your team was caught cheating to get those wins. Sad
Take the last one away fine.. 3 in last 15 instead of 4 in last 15. Let’s see how it plays out.
And it’s funny if you’re talkin the last 100 years why forget about the 20 previous years ?? Notice how you don’t say the last 120 years !!
Conveniently Yankees fans pick and choose their own stats.. Red Sox won 5 World Series or 4 World Series in the beginning of the last century. Yankees fans must be threatened by those championships 120 years ago LOL.
But you know what guys I’ll say this. The Yankees are the premier franchise in baseball. No denying that. Any Red Sox fan with a brain would admit that.
But let’s see how this coming year plays out. Let’s enjoy it, let’s argue, let’s watch them play. Yankees win Great. Red Sox win great. That’s what makes it fun.
But yep Yankees are the greatest franchise in baseball history. Easy to see that. It’s like hockey.. the Montreal Canadiens. It’s like basketball, the Boston Celtics. No problem. But there’s always the coming year. Play ball !!
How have the Yankees done in this century? It’s one thing to talk about winning that happened in the last 20 years. It is a whole other level of delusional to talk about what happened during your great grandfather’s life.
You mean like all the Yankees players caught using steroids when they were still winning rings? Yeah, I thought so.
Steroids were not illegal at that time, but good try. The Red Sox gave been caught red handed, including conduct days after the practice was made illegal. Keep telling yourself the red Sox aren’t facing trouble
They did that with Kimbrel and a real bullpen! The team has mostly the same position players that won it, but a few have aged or regressed some, and the pitching just plain and simple isnt nearly as good as it was in 18.
Plus the replay room
Right ! WAR nerds getting their panties in a bunch. How can u get to 85 wins ?? Hmmm… Betts boegarts devers sale JD. 5 all stars all arguably the best at their position. How bout u build a decent team around that and shoot for a 100 wins. Oh wait. They already did
“They already did” thanks to knowing the other team’s signs by using the replay room during the games as part of a systematic cheating scheme. Glad we’re on the same page about how they got anywhere near 100 wins and their rings. Thanks.
Public relations.
That’s another way of spelling bulls…
Since John was being nasty, the reporter should have asked him if the front office was mandated to participate in the systematic cheating scheme which led to their most recent World Series title. Just like the Astros… Unbelievably high BABIPs and other peripherals teamwide, then years after the rings get handed out, credible eyewitness accounts of cheating to achieve those peripherals and rings. Awaiting the hammer from the commissioner’s office to restore confidence in this sport.
Then he would’ve gotten fired as Henry owns the Boston Globe. So….
Shhhh. The troll doesn’t want to hear truth.
Can’t wait to watch Manfred troll you next
You wouldn’t be able to tell that’s what they were trying to do thus far.
Somebody pissed in John’s Wheaties again! I’m thinking that the Sox are carefully analyzing the situation….do we attempt to climb Everest (NYY), or do we give the appearance like we’re trying to climb Everest? Either way, they’re in a tough position. The team is still very good and (as-is) is a playoff team on paper. I hope they stay intact so we can continue to have some strong rivalry games. I’m equally concerned about the Rays and Jays as I am the Sox. I still think we win 103+ games again on the way to the Championship. The injuries surely can’t happen like that again.
Exactly why they play the games. Good team and good roster. Spending more doesn’t mean improvement. Playing better consistently does.
BAD PEN!
A LOT has to happen for them to get 103+ wins, but, you’re right, it’s still a possibility for the team they have today.
I’m talking about the Yankees.
Get rid of Betts. He doesn’t want to do an extension so I’d be done with him.
who would want to trade for him using valuable prospects knowing he will soon be gone? that is the reason he is still in sox.
The same people who trade prospects for July deadline players knowing they’re gone in two months?
Just a reminder. The Reds traded for Trevor Bauer lad last July when they were out of it but wanted to gear up for 2020. They gave up their best prospect in the process. Bauer has been just as vocal about entering free agency as Betts has.
good luck!
You have to realize ketch going for it is frowned upon in here by all these clowns –
Its the culture we live in today, play to not lose instead of going for it if it makes the optics look better in the end
Who would want to trade for Chapman knowing he would be gone in 2 months? Who would give up a MLB ready top 25 prospect, another top 100 prospect, a major league reliever with a 3.50 career ERA, and another prospect for him?
Who would want to trade for Machado knowing he would be gone in 2 months. Who would give up a top prospect they just paid $30 million for and 4 other prospects for 2 months of him?
Shall I go on?
At a minimum Betts is a 6-8 WAR player. The 2nd best player in baseball. A difference maker in any lineup. He will net the Red Sox a bigger return than what the Yankees got for Chapman.
He wants to hit the open market so he can set a new record in terms of AAV and or years. That doesn’t mean he isn’t willing to stay in Boston. I believe the Sox want to reset the luxury tax this year so that they can afford to re-sign Betts next year without having to worry about the tax. Trading Betts eliminated any chance to retain a top 5 player in baseball. And the Sox are setting up this off season to be able to throw at him what they need to. Betts, Bogaerts, devers, sale, Benintendi are the Sox core moving forward.
I could be wrong, but luxury tax is calculated at the end of the year right? If so no rush to cut now but if not fighting for playoffs they will be highly active at trade deadline.
Yes, it’s calculated at the end of the year but it’s based on a teams AAV payroll for the entire year. So for example the longer they keep someone like Price the move of his salary going towards their tax calculation.
Yes but at that point, roughly 2/3 of the AAV of the contracts of Betts or Price or whoever does still count for Boston.
Bloom wakes up this morning and reads Henry’s quote… “um, what?!”
This is the lamest good cop-bad cop routine ever.
Who’s the good cop?
It was Kennedy, who walked back Henry’s CBT remark by calling it a “goal not a mandate.” (Presumably with the approval of Henry, who may have been regretting the firm stand he had put forth earlier.) Now it’s Henry, who’s saying competitiveness is more important than the CBT. It’s a shell game.
Suspicious.
According to both Cots and Roster Resource the Red Sox 2020 payroll for tax purposes stands at about $238M+/-. The only way to get below the $208M tax threshold is trade Betts and a smaller contract. Moving part of Price’s (AAV) contract and even adding Bradley to it won’t be enough to get under the tax threshold.. The reality is virtually all of the Red Sox player contracts are unmovable. NO one wants them.
If they trade Price, ALL of his salary comes off the CBT calculations regardless of how much money they send to the other team.
Main goal is to be competitive over getting under the cap???
Actions say main goal has been to get under that cap considering they have done nothing this offseasons.
This smells like…we have been trying to trade price and bradlyjr and nobody wants either of them for the price they are being paid.
So now they either take the best offer or go into the season a hope they stay healthy and can be dealt for more value then.
I would chance this with bradlyjr since his remaining wont be much and can pretty easily increase his value.
Price on the other hand, he could go from being worth 15m or a year right to nothing at all.
Either way if they went to the deadline they will or should move price, bradlyjr, and Betts. No reason to keep anyone of them unless your very competitive at the break.
“I think every team probably wants to reset at least once every three years”
ROFLOL!
John Middleton has never paid one dollar in payroll tax.
Continuing to live in your head rent free
Actions speak louder than words, Henry. An ownership group with a few billion in net worth shouldn’t be so concerned with punitive taxes.
It’s not just the taxes. The Sox paid less in luxury tax last year than they paid to Rusney Castillo. But there are other penalties tied to draft picks, IFA money and free agent compensation that can hamper a club going forward.
They did win the World Series, not too long ago.
Could you respond to the point Ketch made, that there are other penalties in addition to the tax dollars?
fwiw I never denied that there were other penalties. And while I think the idea of penalties simply for spending money is stupid, ownership and front offices never mention those actual penalties. It’s always “well there’s a tax…” which means nothing to fans when we know you’re worth billions. That’s all. If you want to cry foul over the other things you can. Money isn’t one I have sympathy for.
I wish I paid a luxury tax.
Same here.
And complain about it ‘til I was blue in the face.
Then play Monopoly and land in between Boardwalk and Park Place. It’s a flat $75.00
Cheaters.
Giants eat David Price’s contract and give Boston aramis Garcia and Tyler Ferguson for Bobby dalbec Chris Murphy and Cameron cannon. deal?
No.
Baseballtradevalues.com says the Giants would be insane to make that deal. They like it a lot better if it’s Eovaldi instead of Price…
that site doesn’t take into account the fact that the Giants are 71 mil under the 208 mark. the value is absolutely there for what both sides are trying to do.
The RedSox aren’t cheaters. Alex Cora is. … Okay, blacksox boy?
Don’t the Red Sox players stand accused of steal signs? I thought that was what the investigation is about. Am I wrong?
The Yankees also paid a fine for stealing signs electronically in 2017.
What about the Apple Watch incident from before Cora?
Or the PED campaigns of Ortiz and Manny?
Was Ortiz ever actually suspended for using PEDs? The answer is no, he wasn’t. If MLB actually believed he had done steroids he would have been penalised. His case isn’t even remotely close to Manny’s.
Ortiz was exonerated by Manfred. Ortiz got better after testing started and never failed a test when he was playing at his best. If you are talking about steroid users look no further than the Yankees with a half dozen guys.
The vast majority of owners personally could afford to pay enormous salaries for the players, but constraints eventually catch up to their teams. Teams that can compete for decades like the Patriots have despite sanctions for bad behavior and low draft picks and waiver positions due to their success are rare. So it makes sense to rein in spending.
Also, with baseball in particular, the length of time players are under team control with prescribed cost ranges is long enough that teams can get the best production out of their players for relatively low cost. It’s why “Moneyball” can exist.
I love how Henry is taking potshots at the media for reporting on his own words. He comes across like an entitled, arrogant jerk whose actions this offseason seem more like a team worried about the CBT than a team trying to improve. I wonder if the stresses from the cheating scandal are starting to get to him.
I loved the shots at CHB. Even if Henry looks a bit childish, CHB is certainly deserving of the attacks as he is the most disgusting parasite in Boston sports history.
Red Sox have several very good players, so from a fan’s point of view (I’m a non fan), you’ll have a team to watch next year regardless of cost. From a business point of view (which is my point of view), I don’t think there is a more precarious and potentially catastrophic situation in professional sports today. From a valuation standpoint, they’re probably paying about a 35% premium above what actual payroll should be based on their roster.
From the business side of things, I would be extremely worried about Sale and his healthy going into 2020. If he goes down, this whole thing will go South fast. They don’t have a very good rotation behind Sale, at least not one they can truly rely on. Their already terrible bullpen is even more terrible, which I didn’t think was possible.
They have some premium top end position players in the OF, SS, 3rd, but beyond that, it’s just a shell of over paid players.
I’m not implying the Red Sox will be bad. I didn’t even read any of the pro analysis on WAR and forecasts for 2020, but the eye test tells me this is probably an 84-88 win team top end. Not good enough with a $240M payroll.
As a businessman myself, and had I just won a WS two seasons ago, my only directive at this moment would be shed salary at any cost, even if you don’t get fair value back.
And in a weird way, best case scenario is for the Red Sox to be terrible the 1st half. $120M potentially wasted, sure, but at least then they’ll make the necessary trades they have too. Betts is probably more valuable at the trade deadline than he is now. If I were a GM or owner, I would value talent like that, at the price it costs, if my up start team is winning in July. Building an upstart team in January with that type of player is not logical, if that makes sense. But that’s contingent on Betts is healthy and playing well himself.
The Red Sox are truly 12-18 months behind on moves they should have made. It’s not hard to understand why Dombroski was fired, despite being a good GM and winning a WS recently. He did his job, he just didn’t pivot quickly after winning and in some ways, if you’re Red Sox fan, you should be happy they identified this quickly. Still though, they should have made some moves by now this offseason.
If anyone showed interest in Price, that deal should have been down 10 times by now, even if the Sox eat 50% of remaining value. Cut, cut, cut, cut payroll right now. Maybe I’m just different.
Betts at the deadline is probably worth a top 50-100 prospect and a a couple of guys in an organizations top 20-30. Look at what the Orioles got in return for Machado at the 2018 deadline and he was in the middle of a huge offensive season.
It depends. Having looked at the Chapman deal and everything said about it, are GM’s still open to paying that kind of premium and making a genius and a GM of the year of their trading partner like they did with Cashman? I don’t know, honestly. I just wonder if the market hasn’t shifted since that deal and whether deadline deals will be done with that kind of return again. Then again, once teams are in the thick of the playoff hunt, and there’s blood in the water… Who knows?
To me the Chapman deal was unique in that the cubs were 108 years removed from a ws win and saw a unique window.
For theo you have to ask if he was willing to overpay for a chance to be the guy who ended the curse of the bambino PLUS the 100+ year drought in Chicago?
I don’t think that transaction really should be used for much of anything – you had a NY team arguably in contention at that point saying “wow me, I’ll sell, but I’m happy to ride towards a wild card” as well I’d imagine.
No, I doubt there’s anyone with that ego and that pressure to win like the 2016 cubs, at least not to that level.
However, if preller is on the hot seat with one foot out the door, would he make a bad deal to try and save his hide at te deadline? I dunno, maybe.
12-18 months? Are you saying they should’ve started rebuilding before they won the World Series?
The sax need everyone to be healthier in 2020
The tenor of your statement is alto true.
Needless dig at Dan at the end. Just because he was the only Boston media figure to consistently point out Ortiz’s very obvious PED use, the team hates him.
and many writers think the fat doper will be selected unanimously while not voting for bonds.
Manfred exonerated Ortiz. Said that there were about 10 tests that were scientifically questionable but that the agreement with the MLBPA didn’t allow them to test the B sample. Even common sense tells you that Ortiz didn’t use steroids. He got better after testing began in 2004 and because he had a positive in the original testing he was tested more often than other players. 10 times a season instead of twice. You are making Angels fans look bad. .
Every team wants to reset every three years. You know, like how all the teams just go over it
Ed Shaughnessy was a tremendous jazz drummer who I got to meet when he helped me work on my stop time playing at the Skidmore Jazz Institute some years ago.
Dan Shaughnessy Is a sad sack miserable malcontent.
Forget Betts and Sale. The contracts of Price and Pedroia are what’s killing the Sox.
Pedroia is making $13 million. That is less than they are paying Rusney Castillo. No amount of salary is killing a team with over $500 million in revenue.
It’s very simple the Red Sox would like to get under the number but the biggest deal is stay below the number that costs them 10 spots in the draft and international money.
I’m sure Bloom has tried to move Price but wants to get rid of as much of that contract as possible the Red Sox can wait until spring training and if Price looks solid in Spring Training and especially if another competitor has a major injury then it might become easier to move Price.
Look I’m sure Boston would like to get under the and reset the lux tax but they aren’t just going to give it away. Bloom will be patient he will wait the market out worse case he blows it up at the trade deadline and can probably get under the number but maybe the Red Sox catch fire and are in the thick of things and make a final run with the guys.
Next year seems like a much more likely time to reset. The free agent market is fairly weak and if the can’t sign Betts and JDM opts out then its time to reset and they will easily be able to do that in 2021. No reason to get rid of Price at this point if it doesn’t get you under the number and reset and that’s just a fact. I think Bloom knows this and is going to be real patient and wait the market out but also knows they can reset in 2021 easily.
But then they risk having to accept a fourth round pick for Betts and they also get hit with draft pick, IFA money and free agent compensation penalties, right? Is that acceptable? That’s the question ownership/management have to answer, and I wonder how fans feel about it. I mean I know they want to compete with the best team they can field, what fan wouldn’t, but at what future cost?
No they won’t go past the max line it’s just money penalty in fact they could increase another 9 million and still not get the max penalty which is loss of draft picks and ifa money.
Hmmm, that’s not what I’ve been reading but I’ll take your word for it until further notice…
The part about the Red Sox receiving a compensatory pick after the 4th round for Betts is correct if the Red Sox don’t get under the lux tax. If they do manage to get under then it would be a pick after the second round. The losing 10 spots on your first round pick and ifa money is only if you exceed the lux tax by 40 million and Boston isn’t doing that. Pretty sure this is right.
Sox will DEFINATELY get more for Betts at the TD. But,
What is the big deal with the luxury tax? Sox can pay the highest rate and STILL make millions! They can keep the team competitive , maybe win another WS. Since Betts won’t give the Sox an extension I would trade him at the TD to a team who needs 1 great plyer to get over the hump.
But I really don’t understand the tax worries. Why do Sox fans seem like their ok with the team basically telling them they want to make a better profit at the expense of downgrading their team? I’m not a Red Sox fan, but the Yankee blogs would be going nuts if the yanks are lucky enough to win a WS and then rip the team apart. So, ARR the Sox fans OK with this?
It’s not just tax money, it’s draft pick, IFA money and free agent compensation penalties.
You really don’t understand. It’s not money it’s the draft & personnel penalties that come with going over.
We know that Henry was frustrated at the end of last season and maybe spoke out of frustration.
Simple, they thought they were going to get better trade proposals for Betts and never happened.
Yet.
Sometimes yes, but you don’t always sell to the first guy that comes along with an offer.
This team on paper looks very good as is. They need bouncebacks from Sale and Price, but otherwise, I’d say they can compete with the Yankees for the most part.
They could seriously get rid of Betts and be fine offensively. If they can get anything for him that would get them a heck of a lot closer to their ‘salary target’ than anything. He’s going to walk anyway, so just shed him for a decent prospect and call it a day.
LOL. OK. How dumb do these front offices think fans are?
Henry confirms in this quote what many have known for a long time
he is an a^^h^^^..
Accusing a Reporter who is just doing his job of lying?!
Obfuscating the truth when Henry is on the record wanting to reset the Red Sox luxury tax?!
Is it any wonder that this double talker, Henry, has lost and run off so many quality GMs.?!
His dupli.city and BS create a hostile work environment.
Owners like this makes me sick. At least the yankees owners said what they were doing for years. Most owners complain about money while taking in millions and not putting that money back on the team. MLB biggest problem is competitive balance and tax penalties. Put a salary cap and end all this BS and subtract 4 teams too many teams that are just their to collect money with out carrying about fans.
Nonsense. The Yankees have been pretending Dashman has the authority to do what needs to be done to bring payroll down and build a competitive team… Then you have the Steiny puppet masters paying out INSANE contracts from Ellsbury to Cole and any other “name” they can take a media victory lap with. Don’t be such a su@ker.
Finally an owner of a filthy rich team keeping it real about the fake cap- no large market owner cares and Sox where never going to give away talent to save a few million dollars. Same team that paid over 50 million for moncada and traded him and now they are gonna give away talent ?!? Neva eva eva gonna happen yet the mind numb goof balls are still out in full force fantasy trading Betts and benintendi. Smh….
It’s lip service, fake news, banter for the fanatics when teams like dodgers Sox yanks talk about getting under the cap
I get your point but the Yanks actually ducked and reset a couple of years ago and I believe the Dodgers have been under the tax line recently. Only the Red Sox are lingering, which is why the talk of resetting this year seemed plausible/logical, even if the significance is, as you suggest, not credible given the revenues and means of the owners. Interesting to hear now that resetting may not happen.
I think what happened is Henry shot his mouth off (frustration, or whatever other reason) and inadvertently reduced the leverage his gm had in making it happen.
Then, not finding the returns palatable, Henry makes a BS statement about “competitiveness being more important” to try to give cover for deciding to keep guys who should’ve been traded.
If competitiveness REALLY was more important you would’ve seen a JBJ non tender coupled with about 20m in new spending on bullpen arms and a better porcello replacement than perez.
Nice! Henry giving it back to Shank Shaughnessy!
Including playing by the rules apparently.
It sounds like John Henry likes and respects Dan Shaughnessy as much as I do.
Still maintain a trade with the Padres makes the most sense for the Sox. Price and Betts for Myers contract and a combo of young talent.
Pads farm can offer both quality and quanity.
The problem is the arbitration system that are setting new highs for salaries. Which is why some the smaller/mod market are trading their stars away because they are taking too much payroll space. I mean some guys make more money in the arbitration years then in free agency. 30-40 million a year is the new high in baseball right now, a decade ago it was 20-30, another decade ago it was 10-20. If players are complaining that they’re not getting paid for what they’ve done in the show already then reduce your asking prices. The big markets teams aren’t investing those 10 year contracts. If the guy fails for expectations they get rid of the contract unless they eat the money for more prospects in return. The Red Sox issue is they have too many guys making over 30 million and taking half their payroll space. That’s why it’s key to build a farm system that sets up for the next 5-6 year window. You only have some players for 6-7 years that’s where you need your farm to produce new potential stars so the market for them gets to expensive in their later years of control. This is a business mindset to save money.
The head says one thing, the hearts says another, while the wallet dictates something completely different.
Martin Perez and Jose Peraza being your two “major” additions after a bad season really indicates that you’re trying to be competitive. What a clown
Words say one thing. Action, or lack thereof, says something very different.
Boston is in a bad spot. Need to get rid of money and the only logical way to do that is to trade Betts, and with him, they’re still at best the 3rd best team in that division and the margin got wider this offseason with the Yankees adding Cole. Price is not worth anything unless you just hope some team takes his salary but you might have to throw a high prospect to get it done. Evoldi is worth very little and a team will give a lot to give up Betts but they would want a boatload and he is not worth that for one year. Boston.. just look towards toward a couple of years from now and hope someone throws you a bone for one of those silly contracts.
I actually like everything you say except for your first sentence LOL
I’m tired of hearing this cap bs. I’m grateful for the World Series wins but we are a major baseball market and we should be acting that way. Tampa Bay is a second rate baseball city that barely draws fans even when they are winning. They have never won a World Series and have to have a good farm system to continually develop players as players leave for greener pastures.
I realize we have some contract issues and one major one is Pedroia who should retire. I am hearing he is going to start the season on the 60 day DL. This guy has not played in almost 3 years. The contract has to have an injury policy on. Please enough with Pedroia
Reminds me of David Wright.
Damn… does anybody like Shaughnessy?
I hope that is a rhetorical question.
“Owner John Henry: Red Sox Are “Focused On Competitiveness…Over And Above Resetting” Luxury Tax Payment”—-translated: “We’re gonna suck for the next 3 years.”
They’re only going to suck for one year. That’s if they hopefully trade Betts and a pitcher or two. And a center fielder LOL. Then we do it again next winter. Sign some Big Money free agents and get it rolling again.
Like I said at the time, he shouldn’t have said anything.
IMO, trade Betts for a decent, cheaper RF plus prospect(s), and roll the dice.
The bad news would be that we would look a lot like 2019.
The good news would be that we would look a lot like 2018.
THE TRUTH. John Henry needs to find a new manager.
Alex Cora is about to face Lifetime suspension.
Highly doubt Cora gets a lifetime suspension but he is probably going to get some sort of suspension.
Lets Hope So :)….. what will be funnier is Carlos Beltran being suspended even before he manages a game with the Mets.
Is Eovaldi their projected closer? The problem with the tax threshold is they haven’t added to the team this offseason. Although their overall bullpen numbers were good last year, they were not good at the end of games. Without a closer, they will struggle again this year.
For anyone hoping they trade Betts or Price at the deadline, it would only mean that they are out of it. It won;t put them under the threshold, so you might as well go all in this year.
John Henry has somehow managed to make the Red Sox situation even more confusing by this current statement. Red Sox hands seem to be tied by over paid players and approaching the highest payroll in baseball once again. so they apparently can’t trade anybody and they can’t pick up anybody. and if they don’t make the playoffs again in 2020 then what is the point in keeping any of these players that are getting big bucks or expect to be getting big bucks? it’s obviously more of a problem to get rid of someone that you have an existing contract with and it is also a lesson to be learned and bringing in a new contract how you can burden your team with yet anou9ther overpriced non-producing player that won’t get you into the playoffs. at some point this had to happen and I’m just hoping that John Henry realizes that a successful business needs to always be looking to improve at the lowest cost possible and to take the least amount of risk possible and whether he feels teams like Tampa or Oakland are somehow not quitting a major league team on the field I think that topic has been taking off the table as they have both had better records than Boston with a fraction of payroll so the issue as I see it is why can’t the brilliant executive that make the decisions on who to offer a contract to behave more like the Tampa or Oakland executives and put together a winning organization with a superior farm system? if I were John Henry I would certainly be questioning that. there’s no point in bringing in Mookie Betts for 12 years had over three hundred million dollars when you have no other players on the team capable of producing and you’re hitting a luxury tax threshold every year. Hopefully John Henry sees this and he will move in the of coming up with much better value have a much lower cost.
I have to wonder why John Henry doesn’t sell the Boston Red Sox and buy the Tampa Rays? Forbes Magazine shows the Boston Red Sox being worth about three and a half billion dollars and the Tampa Bay Rays worth about 1 billion dollars. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that even after taxes John Henry can walk with a profit and acquire a team with a payroll a fraction of Boston’s and apparently a much better value oriented franchise with a record better than Boston’s.