The Dodgers lost the 2017 World Series in seven games to a franchise that’s now embroiled in one of the biggest scandals in baseball history. The Astros, who defeated the Dodgers, fired the GM (Jeff Luhnow) and manager (A.J. Hinch) of their championship team Monday after the league determined they were key figures in a sign-stealing scandal from that year. Luhnow and Hinch received one-year suspensions before the Astros dismissed them, while the tea also lost four draft picks (first- and second-rounders in each of the next two years) and earned the maximum fine of $5MM. The Dodgers could perhaps feel slighted as a result of the Astros’ misdeeds, but the organization is prohibited from making any complaints known. The team issued a statement Monday, saying: “All clubs have been asked by Major League Baseball not to comment on today’s punishment of the Houston Astros, as it’s inappropriate to comment on discipline imposed on another club. The Dodgers have also been asked not to comment on any wrongdoing during the 2017 World Series and will have no further comment at this time.”
More from the National League…
- The Rockies and Cardinals have engaged in preliminary negotiations centering on Rox superstar third baseman Nolan Arenado, who has been on St. Louis’ radar for years. They’ve held talks with Colorado “at least dating back” to December 2018, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch relays. A few months later, the Rockies extended Arenado for seven years and $234MM on a deal that will kick in this season. That money, not to mention Arenado’s no-trade rights and his ability to opt out after 2021, could help prevent an acquisition from materializing for the Cardinals or anyone else. The Cards haven’t been willing to meet the Rockies’ asking price for Arenado in the past, per Goold, though it’s unclear what Colorado asked for in return. Now, as you’d expect, Goold notes that the Cardinals are unwilling to trade young ace Jack Flaherty and also seem unlikely to part with high-end outfield prospect Dylan Carlson.
- New Mets manager Carlos Beltran, a member of the Houston team in 2017, was part of the league’s investigation into the Astros. MLB did not issue him any punishment, however, after he was gave the league his full cooperation “and admitted to everything,” Andy Martino of SNY tweets. It seems Beltran changed his tune since the league’s investigation started in November, though, as he initially denied any knowledge of violations on the Astros’ part.
Charlie Morton dominated game 7 of the 2017 World Series.
Kershaw did better. He gave up no runs even with tip offs from Astros players in the right field bullpen.
Pete rose bet on his own team to win and was banned for life. The Astros literally cheated their way to a WS win and got 1 year suspensions. And just the coaches none the less. Either let Pete into the HOF or the Astros punishment will go down as a joke.
Eh, people is the context. Now don’t get me wrong, I think the Astros are atrocious and that the west and it’s players got screwed the most. The Pete rose was a personal thing from
The then commish and it was Roses uncooperative spirit that got him smashed.
Manfred is a joke!
@StlSwiftly It’s not known for certain that Rose never bet against his own team. He’s lied so much for so long. He always said, for example, that he never bet as a player, only as a manager, but that was a lie too.
Betting on his own team is also bad. He might have overused a reliever in a game he bet on, for example, when he wouldn’t have otherwise.
There’s also the link to organized crime, plus his other misdeeds. To be forgiven, you have to come clean and apologize when caught. Rose is still lying decades later.
StlSwifty…………….
The Rose comparison is getting old especially when people keep saying “but he bet on his team to win. Rule 21 which is the only major league rule mandated to be posted in every single club house since the 1920’s states:
1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform, shall be declared ineligible for one year.
2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
Rose saw that rule thousands of times….thousands and yet he decided he was above the rules. Nowhere in the rule does it say betting on your own team is OK. Rose bet $15,000 a day on average, as a player/manager and manager. At one point he quit paying his Cincy bookies because his NY based, mob connected bookies, were threatening his life and members of his family. It was never a case of “Oh he just bet a little on his team to win.
He knew the consequences and did it anyway. The only similarity with the Astros is the new what they were doing was against the rules and did it anyway.
Aside from the gambling and lying do you really want a pedo in the hall. He had an affair with a 14-15 year old girl, while married with kids, and his only excuse was “I thought she was 16”.
He does not deserve the Hall…….ever.
Great point!!!!
And I read in an article that to many players involved so that’s why there were no players suspended. What a crock that is.
Why? Because he enforced the rules?
Enough with the Pete Rose stuff. Pete agreed to the ban, and its long been rumored that it was a deal in place to avoid additional information from coming out, such as his propensity to have sex with minors. I don’t feel sorry for a guy who lied, changed his story 15 times, is a sexual predator and AGREED to a deal with the league that instituted a LIFE TIME BAN. He’s out, and he should be out.
Ok I see and respect your point there. No denying that. But my real point is that I think the Astros got off light, considering they cheated in a big way, and claimed a championship because of it, almost two. I feel like all people involved in this scandal will be rehired at some point and all will be forgotten once the Astros have forfeited their draft picks. I think Manfred is a pushover and baseball has gotten soft on their punishments. That’s why these things continue to happen. Similar to the PED thing. Multiple players are still being busted every year, and since they’re allowed to come back, nobody takes it seriously. There are multiple players who have been busted multiple times, and they’re still allowed to play in the MLB. That’s. Just my two cents.
On a side note, the cards need to get a trade for arenado done. As unlikely as it was, the cards were close to a WS appearance last year, and adding arenado would be a HUGE boost to both offense and defense. Get it done MO.
Cheating is cheating. Players should of been suspended.
Cat Mando so does this mean any player who plays any fantasy baseball has to be suspended?
Manfred is horrible for baseball! He’s the worse thing since the 1919 scandal!
The Rose scandal has nothing to do with who he bet on or against. The problem was not only his continual lying in the face of Dowd’s obvious evidence, but also that a mlb manager should probably not owe bookies half a million dollars.
Pete Rose already lied once (in his first book). Why should anyone believe him when he said he only bet on his team to win?
Rose deserves to be in the HOF. There are worse people in it.
Guilt by “rumor has it.” The American way.
A manager betting on his own team is almost as bad as betting on the other team. If I were a gambler, I would want to know which games Rose bet on his team because they would think Rose would pull out all stops like it’s the 7th game of the World Series and I would bet on them, too., A gambler would also want to know which games Rose DID NOT bet on his team because that would mean he doesn’t have confidence in them and would bet against the Reds then.
no players were suspended because the MLB Players Association have Manfred in their back pocket.
back in those days there was no such thing as overusing a reliever. The starter went 7-8 innings lol
and also the goal was to make money which all the guilty parties did. mission accomplished.
Agreed. Also, Rose agreed to the lifelong ban rather than admitting to his crimes. It was his own choice.
The manager and GM were suspended then fired for not curtailing the players illicit actions. Strange indeed that no players, who commited the ‘crime’, were punished. Seems like the league did not want to impair the Astro’s team that would, in turn, effect the fans. Pretty sad that the ‘adults’ are punished while the guilty ‘children’ go free. I feel for the fans but this is wrong to let the players go scott free. It as though they received leniency by ratting out the manager and GM whose crime was not stopping the players, Sad..
progers2622…….
If they play for anything of value it is against the rules.
This explains it ………… espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/12661248/major-league-base…
It’s already “gone down” and it is a complete joke. Beltran can now collect his $M’s as the Mets new manager and laugh all the way to the bank, free and clear. I’m thinking he probably had much to do with planning and carrying out this charade with Cora.
EXACTLY!!!! This is what I have been saying for years.
PED users are suspended more games than
Domestic violence offenders. Peds are taken too seriously.
It is a joke, a complete joke. And the guys on the MLB shows either won’t admit it or can’t admit it.
@I Am Keyser Soze
“Rose is still lying decades later.”
And most of the Astros players are still lying about their misdeeds.
Yes, the Commissioner’s investigation showed Rose bet on his team, but you, apparently, didn’t see the Negative Significance in that.
If Rose had say $50K on a game & he had a 1 run lead in the 9th, he might use a pitcher who said he needed rest, rather than loosing $50K.
Betting ON your team is still a Horrible & Illegal thing to do.
How many times did Rose risk a player’s health in order to ensure that he didn’t lose a bet? THAT’S what makes Rose’s actions so bad, and NO, you don’t know that he didn’t do that.
My best friend was a compulsive gambler & even he said a compulsive gambler could not resist the urge to increase his chances of winning.
And, more importantly, the Mafia & other organized crime elements had to know Rose was betting on games, which means they could force him to do whatever they wanted, like blow a big game.
That’s why associating with gamblers is one of the biggest sins in sports.
Stop trying to defend a man who lied about what he did & blatantly violated one of the most important rules in sports.
@Mo4ever We’ll see how many Astros players have problems with the IRS and underage girls. Time will tell.
Speak of the Rose and he shall appear. Great interview from Rose just released talking about Astros scandal.
Basically that he was wrong to bet on the game but at least he didn’t taint the game Lololol
he sure should be reinstated, there holding him accountable, letting players play after spouse abuse, , repeated drug use, repeated alcohol abuse, ,steroids use, all excusable penalized ,but excusabel. he did bet ,yes on the positivity of himself. i never was a Rose fan or cincy fan ,as a lifelong
cardinal fan , he needs reinstated and the respect he desreves for his ON FIELD PLAY
While I agree that it doesn’t look fair that this was handled the way it was in comparison to how Pete Rose was handled, there are two things that I look at and don’t exactly feel sorry for Rose.
One is what has already been said here, about Rose lying the whole way through about his betting.
The other is something many older fans have forgotten about and many younger fans probably don’t know. here it is. Rose’s betting affected his decision making with how he managed the Reds, and there is potential public evidence. Anyone remember Gary Redus, the former Reds OF? The guy was a solid player for that era. In that era of baseball, the Reds were better with him in lineup than him on the bench. Rose would sit him for no understood reason that he couldn’t even explain adequately, if at all. Then when Redus called it into question, Rose benched him period and had him traded. There were many baseball people who didn’t understand any of why Rose was doing that. Many called it into question when he forced the trade of Redus. Redus even had his moments both before and after he was traded questioning Rose’s managing decisions. These decisions and issues with Redus occurred in the midst of Rose’s known betting as a manager of the Reds. MLB never publicly included Rose’s handling of Redus or released any statements about any specific managerial decisions that indicated betting while he was a manager, but they did state that there was evidence of his betting on games (which would certainly have had to include behavior in the dugout – i.e. managerial decisions).
While I will say that, if any Astros player that was involved with this is elected to the Hall, then Rose should be too, I will be hesitant in defending him. He lied. And there is evidence that pointed to him betting on baseball while managing and playing. And there is his handling of one player as a manager that was clearly mishandled, which many people thought it was personal, but it could easily be considered as potentially the result of managerial decision being altered in favor of Rose’s betting. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I’m 64-years-old, so I remember what you referred to in your post.
But, I am unalterably opposed to Rose ever going into the HOF. There is a sign posted in EVERY locker room that warns players that betting on games is illegal & against baseball rules.
Rose knew he was breaking a cardinal rule; he knew what the punishment could be, but he still did it!
Also, by associating with mob bookies, Rose left himself open to being bribed to throw games.
I was an organized crime reporter in my younger days & one bookie I was on friendly terms with (as a source) acknowledged that it was NO SECRET in organized crime circles that Rose was betting on baseball games, including Reds’ games.
So, no, Rose shouldn’t even be allowed in the HOF with a visitor’s pass. He didn’t respect the game & he doesn’t deserve our respect.
I agree with and see your point. I just also feel that, since MLB made it clear that the use of technology to cheat was a violation, any Astros and Red Sox players that participated should also be kept from the Hall.
Well put, Thanks for a well written and intelligent response.
Agreed
I agree , Right is right wrong is wrong they knew what they were doing .they should all be suspended at least half the year or maybe more
This is one of the better explanations of why Rose is not eligible for the HOF. Constant comparisons of his crimes to others who are not perhaps punished at the same level are lame and totally out of reason. If you do the crime expect do do the time and no two judges or juries are the same so justice can and does vary. Simple solution is DON’T DO THE CRIME!
Well put, but you’re sounding dangerously Logical, Bobby ;-).
And I agree with your point that no one involved in the scheme should be voted into the HOF.
Unfortunately, a lot of writers & broadcasters are already ready to forgive Bonds & other steroid users & vote them into the HOF.
So, unfortunately, in 20 years, most voters won’t hold any of this mess against the players involved.
logic never gets old. And the length of your post does not strengthen your supposed point. He deserves to be in…..period
I’m always confused how Pete Rose gets brought into these discussions, 2 totally different things. I’m pretty sure most of these players will be tainted forever and it will most likely cost them consideration for the hall.
What Pete did was wrong, and against the rules even during that time, this he is banned. This issue does not absolve him.
Rose supporters are constantly looking for any excuse to forgive Rose for the unforgivable.
They point to someone else’s crime & say: See, that’s worse than what Rose did, so Rose should be in the HOF.
That distorted & disingenuous “logic” is analogous to this situation:
Your house is robbed of all of your valuables while you’re away on vacation.
Your neighbor is robbed of his valuables at gun point.
Since the crime committed against your neighbor was more severe than the one committed against you, the people who robbed you should NOT be arrested, convicted & jailed because their crime was “less severe.”
That’s a Ridiculous & Absurd form of logic; it’s fatuous logic, which means the argument is silly & pointless.
Rose committed multiple violations of Criminal Law by betting on baseball games & he KNOWINGLY violated the rules of baseball. He was then punished according to the rules of the game. As another reader posited: If you don’t want the punishment, don’t commit the crime. It’s really that simple.
People do better with relativity than absolutes. Often it’s hard for them to say such and such is wrong and easier to say it’s worse or better than that other thing. Usually when an issue is not morally repugnant. Cheating bother some people more than others depending where, when, how. A runner at 2nd stealing signs – that’s baseball. Using video feeds from the outfield cameras is not baseball. Rose betting on his team to win is different than betting against your team, for obvious reasons but both are against MLB rules.
I wonder, is fantasy baseball considered betting, especially if there are league fees? How many athletes “play” fantasy sports of all kinds? Or do leagues just look the other way on that…
Give the trophy to the Dodgers.
Unfortunately, you can’t just give the trophy to the Dodgers because the Astros also cheated the Yankees out of a chance to go to the W.S.
What MLB should do, but doesn’t have the balls to do, is to negate the Astros’ title, remove their name from the trophy, and just list the 2017 “winner” as “N/A” or “No Winner”.
Mantle – I’m less concerned about who has the trophy and more concerned about any young opposing pitchers trying to make their bones but got sent down because the Astros lit them up.
That’s ANOTHER very valid point.
But no one point should be viewed as negating all other points.
They won a W.S., at least in part, if not in totality, by cheating.
All of the sins associated with their cheating are valid complaints: take away their title, suspend every regular for 60 games, just like steroid users, etc., etc.
There is no way, however, of undoing the damage they may have done to some rookies who they lit up. If you have a suggestion, I’m all Spock ears 😉 for a suggested punishment.
Forget tokenism like asterisks, suspensions, or repoed trophies. The solution seems pretty obvious to me: MLB should have forced the sale of the Astros to new owners. Yes that probably would have made Jim Crane even richer than he is already, but at least he’d be out of baseball and we fans would see that the owners are serious about keeping the sport clean. The fact that they didn’t want to significantly penalize one of their own speaks volumes about their priorities.
BlueSky – “The solution seems pretty obvious to me: MLB should have forced the sale of the Astros to new owners.”
How do you see that happening? In America, I don’t know of any legal way for one entity to force another entity to sell their own property other than eminent domain, which doesn’t apply here. If it were possible, there isn’t a hint of the owner having any knowledge of the violation so why would that come into play anyway?
The 30 owners are in business together as MLB, and MLB controls who is a part of that little club and under what terms they own. That’s why they are called franchises. So, yes, they absolutely could force the divestiture of any team they judge to have been mismanaged in a way that harms the integrity of MLB as a business. For a recent example of this happening, look no further than the Dodgers (2012). The Astro certainly qualify as having been mismanaged, IMO.
So first first of all, Crane’s denials are not plausible. Second, if you can accept the howler he had absolutely no knowledge of what was going on, then the argument against his oversight is that he certainly should have known. If MLB was really serious about this issue they’d have forced him out. But they won’t do that because the first impulse of the owners is to cover for each other. I just don’t think it’s going to work this time, nor should it work.
Blue – Sounds like it might be possible then as you describe it. I’ve heard no evidence that Crane knew anything was going on, and clear and convincing evidence is what it would take for that to happen I’m guessing. As a Dodgers fan, I can see how you would want more severe punishment. I think the punishment handed out is the correct response except I would add 2 things: 1)fine the players involved who are on a different team now. 2)fine and suspend the players who are still on the Astros, maybe for 60 days.
Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t know that.
Amen brother!
It wouldn’t be easy but certainly not impossible to force the sale of the Astros. Behind the scenes pressure might already be building, we have no way of knowing. It’s just when I hear the teams being required to take a vow of silence on the scandal and its resolution then I have to feel like there’s a lot of unhappiness lurking just under the surface that nobody is being allowed to express but is bound to come out eventually. I’d like to think my feelings about this aren’t colored by being Dodger fan as much as by being a baseball fan.
The Clippers were a forced sale after Donald Sterling was caught being a racist. Like Blue said, MLB is a business, so taking away the owner’s franchise is akin to the board of directors voting him out, or him getting fired. The fact that this didn’t happen concerns me.
Further, I think it’s absurd that Crane is pretending like he didn’t know and approve of what was going on. If it were my team and I found out they were cheating to win a WS, I would voluntarily vacate the title. That would be the response of a man who is as outraged as the rest of us, and was genuinely in the dark. I would be furious. He clearly is not. Why is this guy not cleaning house? He fires 2 guys? He should be tearing down the entire organization and starting over.
Thanks Mr. King – When I think about it like a franchised restaurant, if the owner of the franchise does something contrary to the brand, they can strip their franchise license. That makes sense.
Exactly my point. Instead of fixing this the owners are covering for each other, which to me is the worst thing about this outcome (and I say that as a Dodger fan who bought tickets to both of the World Series in question). It seems like such a short-term fix. More information is bound to come out. By not taking direct action against Crane they are only prolonging the agony, and increasing the damage to the sport.
Just ask Donald Sterling how it happened.
He pitched well. Attacked the zone like a guy handed an early lead should do.
Does he pitch the same without that lead? Do they leave him in as long in a closer game?
He was dialed in, but everyone was denied a genuine contest.
His stuff was unbelievably good that night. Without him Dodgers very well could have come back but the cheating damage was done before game 7.
The Astros don’t get to 7 vs LA without cheating
No bombed darvish or Kersh early in the series. They cheated. Plain and simple
And mlb didn’t punish them hard enough
Common – “And mlb didn’t punish them hard enough”
What would you have done to punish them more?
I think it’s messed up that the players got nothing when it was player-driven in the first place, and the only excuse was there were too many to punish …
How are you going to prove someone did or did not hear a garbage can lid ?
They apparently had enough information to determine there were too many players to punish. Tells us they had reasonable confidence in at least some. And one would assume they had video of the players participating by banging on the trashcan.
Seems easy enough to start with.
The actual persons who committed the illegal act were not touched. Suspend everyone for a month, but stagger the when (so the Astros can field a team by adding the necessary minor leaguers to the 26 man roster) and fine them heavily. At the very least, publish their names so they can be known for what they did. Yes, this will ruin their 2020 season but who’s fault is that?.
WHAT???Too many to punish. The NCAA issued the ‘death penalty’ to SMU in 1987, Kentucky basketball in the 1950s and a few lesser schools where the schools were not allowed to field a team at all for a year plus other penalties. It takes years for a program to recover from that.. Sadly that punishes the innocent too but it shows that something can be done to the ‘too many’ as well.
@dynamite drop in monty
“How are you going to prove someone did or did not hear a garbage can lid ?”
They were ALL involved. They ALL knew. They were individually actively participating or complicit. They ALL benefited. NONE tried to stop it. They should all be suspended and fined. The Astros should field a team of scrubs for a month and the players should pay a fine equal to their championship shares. The fines should include Manager, Coaches, and Players. The fine money should go to the postseason teams they faced, with 50% going to the Dodgers.
Players should have at least gotten a year who participated. Yeah, all of them
Most of them were told they wouldn’t be punished if honest and admitted the scheme
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be punished. It was supposedly Cora+ player driven. Well then do the right thing and get rid of the cheaters. Execs got banned for not blowing the whistle, but the cheaters winning awards+ millions got jack but a new coach
They can’t do that. It would change the outcome of the 2020 season just like the cheating itself potentially did. 2017 will have an asterisk, we don’t need one for 2020 too. I do believe the players involved should incur hefty fines though. That would hurt them the most anyway.
id take away the world series trophy, and money earned to each involved
. That would get every ones attention then, raise ticket prices and walla make up the 5 mil in no time
I agree with what you wrote, but I would also suspend every regular in the Astros lineup for 60 games, just like steroid users. (I explain why in more detail in another post.)
I’d also like MLB to force all of their regulars to wear the word “CHEATER”, in place of their name, on their jerseys for at least 1 year; and every time they get announced during the game say “And now hitting for the Astros, Cheater So-in-so.”
How embarrassing would that be for those players?
Doesn’t matter. Ask any MLB hitter…if they’re told what pitch is coming it take all the guessing away and they can swing away. Cheaters. Astros World Series win will always have an asterisk beside it. Terrible terrible for the sport and the history of this great game. In my opinion as bad or worse than the steroid scandal.
It was a seven game series and who’s to say how/if sign stealing made a difference.
Who’s to say? Anyone with half a brain. How many games did the Astros win at home?
How good can one feel after cheating for victory? Astros and Red Sox (especially Cora) are losers. Time to take out the trash.
Patriots fans seem pretty happy and there’s a street named after David Ortiz.
Halo, n one st will be Tom Brady one day.
There’s a Pete Rose Way in Cincinnati. It makes you consider the wisdom of naming streets after people who are still alive.
Pete Rose didn’t cheat..
Didn’t cheat??? Follow this logic and then tell us he “didn’t cheat”.
-Baseball has a rule prohibiting betting on baseball.
-To violate the rules of any organization is to “cheat” the organization
-Rose bet on baseball and therefore “cheated” on baseball.
Sir, Rose was presented with a standard Major League Baseball contract with all the rules and penalties CLEARLY outlined within. Both he and his agent read it and signed it and it then became a legally binding docUment in which he agreed through his signature to abide by those rules. He was paid HANDSOMELY for that. He willfully chose to violate the rules And in doing so subjected himself to punishment as defined therein. Game Set and Match
Yep, no GM’s, players, head coaches suspended or fired. No frothing at the mouth jelly-bellies asking for their kids to be sold into slavery.
Kewl, the ones who are punished the most are the fans because the teams did very stupid actions.
Blame the Managers, Coaches and Players.
if you’re making enough money apparently you dont FEEL anything at all anymore.
Was there banging trash cans in the 2017 World Series? Seems like it would be easy to check on video no?
MLB says they have found this was going on in the 2017 postseason
It was a whistle in game 5
Keep up. The videos have been circulating for months.
Of course there were banging trash cans in the 2017 WS, Jorge. That is the point of the whole situation.
check u tube the banging is showed.
How disrespectful to other players
The Cards will hopefully stick with an offer for NA’s 2 year guarantee. The next couple of weeks should be exciting. Go Cards !
Why would the Cards, who reportedly did not pursue Rendon, a signing that would only cost them money and a draft pick, give up young, controllable talent plus money for Arenado? They’re hoping for a comeback year from Carpenter, plus have Edman.
Because they want the Rockies to take Carpenters contract along with any deal for Arenado…they couldn’t sign Rendon and have Carps/Fowler’s contract also…trading Young talent plus getting rid of a bad contract instead of signing Rendon and still having two bad contracts in carp/Fowler
@cards81
In what scenario would the Rockies even remotely think about taking Carp back in any trade? Carps trade value is so low the Cardinals would have to add even more talent to the trade to get the Rockies to consider that.
To balance salary obviously
I agree. On MLB radio…. it was speculated by the Commentators, the Cards would ask the Rockies to take Fowler but would be willing to combine an additional prospect with Fowler. That is if the Rockies would accept Fowler in addition to the quality players the Roc’s are interested in. No one wants Carpenter!!! He’s got a permanently busted up arm and permanent chronic back disorders. He’s toast in the eyes of other mlb organizations as a player!!!
It’s been long reported that the Rox have coveted Matt carpenter. He’s a bounce back candidate if he stays healthy and would fit nicely at First for Colorado
so if the cardinals said that they would give up Gorman, Labitore and oniell (you could substitute oneill for a catcher like Herrera) plus carp they wouldn’t take getting two prospects that could very well be cornerstone players in their organization…..plus unload the contract of Arenado which is a market level contract they wouldn’t do that? ok then…the cardinals will keep them and just build for their future while they watch the rockies finish last in the western conference for years to come…..give me break…what world do you people live in…also I doubt Fowler wants to come back to Colorado plus he has a no trade clause..Carps no trade doesn’t kick in till the 2020 season begins…Im not saying that is the proposed trade but i think the Rockies would be stupid not to take it..if they are serious about trading Arenado and building for their future
I herd Arenado will not waive his no trade contract to go to St Louis just like Stanton did.
Where did you hear that? Link please.
Maybe because Arenado is better?
League is trash just trying to cover up. Blame the players, but then say you can’t punish the players so at the end of the day you get a slap on the wrist,
Flaherty? Carlson? If the ‘preliminary’ ask is anything close to paying all of that contract (can’t assume he is going to opt out) PLUS one or laughably both of those players, then enjoy Nolan Colorado (and the contract)! Hope you don’t stink in a couple of years!
EVERY team has had cheaters in one form or another. The Astros are just the latest to get caught. They are not the first and I’ll bet that they won’t be the last.
The Astros were blatant in their cheating. Without any evidence against other teams cheating so obviously your statement is pointless. Their championship is rightfully so tainted.
It’s only cheating if you get caught. Houston would still be doing it if guys did not blow the whistle. Cheating in baseball has been prevalent for generations in one form or another. To say hiflew’s statement is pointless is blatant ignorance. Players, coaches and GMs are circumventing rules and cheating the game as we speak. So long as they aren’t caught they will do what they do to win. It’s part of the game, like it or not.
It’s only thieving if you get caught. It’s only murdering if you get caught. You suggesting we don’t punish those who get caught because of the ones who don’t get caught? And what evidence do you have about other teams not getting caught?
name the witnesses and evidence. if there isn’t any, you cannot enforce.
I said “in one form or another” not necessarily this exact way. The cheating could have to do with PEDs, ball scuffing, going all the way back to the Black Sox scandal. Even things like wetting down the infield to slow down runners or cutting the grass a certain length to benefit your team over the other Every team has done it in one way or another.
Some things are against the rules. Others aren’t.
Your argument is like saying we shouldn’t hold it against thieves in prison because there are thieves who didn’t get caught. Nonsense.
” Every team has done it in one way or another.”
Says who? Individual players may cheat (PED’s), but who says EVERY team systematically BREAKS THE RULES. The Astros did this institutionally. They didn’t water the grass. They broke the rules and stole signs. During both the season and postseason. They defrauded all their opponents, MLB, and the fans.
Minimizing bad conduct over the thought that “everyone else does it” is one example of the moral decay of western society. Congratulations.
Not cheating this way. Stealing signs from second base is fine. Stealing signs from a video feed your team controls is not ok. Why is this still a discussion?
I was hoping the Astros news would give the Arenado rumors a rest for at least one day around here. But I guess we can continue beating a dead horse.
Never let it be said that ownership is not completely in charge of the game of baseball. If it’s in the financial interests of ownership to not talk about this scandal any further then the teams that were cheated will be forever mute. As if that will make it go away. I wonder, can they gag players who’ve already retired or will in the near future?
Good question. It will be very interesting to hear the hot takes of retired players in the near future.
Next they’ll put a gag order on MLBTR and the fans.
The tragic part of this (apart from how some of us are feeling right now as fans of teams that were cheated) is that MLB has failed to grasp the longterm implications of this scandal. In the short term they may have put it to rest but the very fact that they felt a need to institute a gag order tells us they know other shoes would drop if they didn’t. As a result it feels like the bleeding will go on for a long time as people who are no longer contractually obligated to obey the gag order speak up. The timeline on this will be years, not weeks or even months.
And I had money on the Dodgers that year, maybe Dave Roberts moves might have turned out differently. 1 year bans is not justice, ban everyone involved for life. This stinks big time.
Yeah, ban the Dodgers too…
sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-postseason-2018-s…
Whataboutism. A prime example of the moral decay of Americans. Congratulations.
I worked in a manufacturing plant where if there was an altercation between workers both would be fired even if one only hit back in self defense. Harsh, but you knew the rules going in. There was no ‘he hit me first’ defense..
The Dodgers does not have to cheat to beat the Brewers. If you look at their record against each other in the regular and the post season in the past couple of years, the Dodgers often top the Brewers and Milwaukee knows this.
Maybe that should teach you not to bet on things that can be influenced by human beings, either directly or indirectly. There is no such thing as honest gambling. Someone is always looking for an advantage when money is involved.
So you’re saying we should stick to the slots.
Lotto, definitely. You can lose your money much faster that way.
Yeah that $20 you bet is gone forever. Still hurts?
On another note isn’t technology amazing (insert sarcasm)
Beltran’s punishment is that he has to manage the Mets.
Mets should fire him if they know what they’re doing. Guy will be disrespected for the rest of his life. And no HOF, dude.
2017 title should be removed
The Astros are cheaters, like congressmen. Always cheating. David Ortiz. Was a big man who cheated.
Who is your team, Mr Clean?
Bet he loves him some A-Rod.
The Dodgers: “The league has asked us not to comment on how awful it was that the Astros cheated in order to win. So, we won’t. ”
The Dodgers: “We will not comment at this time. We hope current or former employees don’t snitch.”
Drum roll. The Astros cheated so much, they made Steve Garvey blush. Cymbal crash.
Sorry folks. This situation isn’t as nice and clear as most of you want to make it. If y’all don’t think that most if not all teams use video during games, you’re sadly naive. You don’t think teams look for pitchers tipping pitches, or go back and look at pitch sequences etc with video? Ok. Then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
“Everyone was looting that Walmart, so I grabbed a few flat screens.”
I’ve already made a down payment on the Brooklyn Bridge. Which one are you selling? Sadly signed, baseball fan.
“We caught a few guys stealing flat screen tv’s. We let them go because we were told ‘everyone’ was doing it.”
Houston was able to do this because they were the only team in the league with a replay room next to the dugout
You couldn’t be more wrong
The Astros should be forced to put an asterix * by every single world series banner, trophy, and pennant throughout the stadium. they need to be publicly humiliated and scrutinized forever for tainting a championship like the black sox scandal
And change their name to the Asterisks, Blackstros or Trashstros.
Love the comments. Typical of our society—to pile on good or bad. None of the commenters have ever done anything wrong. They are just as pure as the driven snow.
10 years ago it was hip to fawn over Golden boy Jeter (“oh he just knows how to win!”) but bash David Ortiz as a cheater. Yankee fans or most other fans have no business whatsoever even brining that to the table. There’s a LONG list of players conspicuously connected or that should be to PEDs. Brett Garner in his walk year last year…he’s fortunate he hasn’t been busted YET. Give me a break…so freaking obvious…A-Rod played how many seasons for you on the juice, and Jeter played alongside him, practiced with him, changed in the same locker room and didn’t know? The managers didn’t know? Ha! Ok. Roger Clemons, all the guys in the 90s like Glenallen Hill and the rest of the generic former all stars that made millions by juicing.
Flapjax. I agree with you. Professional sports are filled with scumbags and sociopaths. We should all stop feeding the pigs with our money..
Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
i sure hope people remember Beltran was involved in this going forward. if a media outburst was involved, however, the hall voters sure would.
LETS GET ARENADO
I Agree!! With all of the goofy contracts give to Brett Cecil, Gregerson, Leake, Fowler, Holland and especially the latest Matt Carpenter deal, a trade for a young All-Star Caliber Impact player right now. With Arenaldo you get solid offense and defense at least for 2 years. Arenaldo will love the Cardinals. They will be able to resign him because all of the horrid contract mentioned above will be gone and the Cardinals will have the money in 2 years.
I don’t think Players love the Cardinals as much as their fans pretend they do.
The players say otherwise but I’m sure you know that.
Link is to the wrong Dylan Carlson FYI
Odd that the auto-linker picked that one! Fixed, thanks.
I think one of the winners in all of this is the Pirates in getting Don Kelly. Wonder if he stays in Houston if not for the scandal. I think he is going to be a very good manager in short order.
Baseball is in serious trouble. First they used PED’s to completely trash the record books and the fans gobbled it up. Then they used the fixer umps to influence the outcomes of games. Then they introduced the fake ball to further entice the fans into gobbling up the game. Now they let teams cheat using technology. Baseball has lost all credibility. It’s turned into professional wrestling, and is nothing more than entertainment for the masses. I don’t believe anything that has happened since Bart Giamatti passed away is legitimate. He was the last commissioner of any integrity. It was great to watch 2004 as a Red Sox fan but I don’t believe it wasn’t somehow influenced to happen. I’m not saying rigged. Same with the Cubs championship. Now this arbitrary and capricious penalty comes down on the Astros and will come down on the Red Sox. It really strains all credibility if the game had any left. As someone who loves the game, played into my forties in an open men’s league that was very competitive, has a nephew playing professionally in the Angels system, has attended the analytics seminar at MIT, traveled to Florida for spring training and has met countless former and current players, I am very sad today about baseball.
All very good points and I concur.
Be wary of conspiracies that have not been proven. They do exist (collusion) but looking only through a conspiracy lens will get you no closer to the truth. You know what is also dangerous? Nostalgia. It sells because we remember the sport when we were younger and quite likely freer and happier than we are now.
I think this whole Astros mess is kind of funny /ironic because in the 2015 post season they were accusing the Royals of stealing pitches by their 3rd base coach. I believe they even filed a complaint. the coach would come out of his coaching box, stand even to the mound,and watch the grip on the ball and use the position of his feet to signal the pitch. left hand batter the 1st base coach would tip the batter.
One of my favorite memories is sitting next to the sign man at Shea when he held up the letters A and G. Good times, baseball was so much more fun.
that was Karl Erhardt,the sign man,he would bring an artists portfolio with at least 50 signs to every game. I sat behind him a couple of times,he was a nice guy.
Somewhere I have his autograph. He was very nice, I think he had his daughter helping him the day I was there. Mets fans were lots of fun.
I remember the sign man watching on TV when I was a kid. But help me out, I’m slow today. A and G?
That is legal!!!
Since the steroid scandal mlb is all over their damage control image.
know what,on second thought let everyone cheat,the fans will love it. everybody’s on PED’s,take all the black beauties until your heart explodes,sharpen your spikes razor thin,use a 4×4 as a bat,pay off the umps,,.whatever. the fans will eat it up, the owners will make big $$$.
“Big Papi”. 2013 World Series!! Hottest hitter on the planet during that World Series against the Cardinals!! Big Papi basically beat the Cardinals in that Series all by himself.
Almost as if he knew what every pitch was that was thrown to him. In Advance!!! Maybe he did! Boston has been known to do questionable things anyway.
Yeah…by himself. Eye roll.
When I coached first it was first name or last name. Some didn’t want to know. Trouble for me is I always used first names.
Stealing signs! I pitched for two years with a tiny broken bone in my wrist and threw nothing but fastballs. I threw just about every variety of fastball I could think of to mix things up. I told the catcher to not even bother with signals except as a decoy. Needless to say the results were no different than if I had my full assortment of pitches. Ah, mediocrity.
Needless to say your results reflect the mediocre “talent” you were facing. No offense. I’m sure you were a very good pitcher for pulling off such a feat at any level.
STL has 2 players making $20M or more. 3 players making $15M or more and 3 making $10M or more. They are trying to add another player making $28M. They have the 9th highest payroll in MLB
Yet they receive competitive balance picks.
They also have the 2nd most number of WS victories.
I’m a huge dodgers fan – but In many ways the title HAS been vacated and given to the dodgers. Everyone knows now that the Astor’s cheated in probably the best series and some of the best games in World Series history. To me, the Dodgers won the World Series.
Its the same as Armando Galarragga’s perfect game. Everyone knows that he pitched a perfect game with the blown call by Jim Joyce. Maris still holds the single season homerun record and Aaron the career record.
It may not be in the ‘books’ … but everyone knows it!
Arenado for …
Hudson
Carlson
Gorman
Liebratore
Everyone is Happy !
Except the Cardinals.
you shouldn’t start drinking in the morning…
Cardinals offer to the Rockies is an Insult………just watch the Cubs win the NL Central in 2020……and Cardinals stay at home.
lol you don’t even know what the offer is….
He hasn’t stopped from the night before.
Add carpenter and that’s about right in value but cards will pass on that deal as they aren’t seriously pursuing arenado
does dismiss of Astros manager and general manager mean they will still be paid? If they do what a scam.
No pay at all….in their contracts, there is a moral clause of not playing by the rules.
They be lucky if either one ever get a baseball job again !
They are Poison now to all 30 MLB teams !
I bet $10,000 that Arenado does not end up with the Cardinals !
Now for you Cardinals fans who want to take that bet…….I do not accept your Govt. aided checks.
oohhh…bigbadjohnny is a big bad tough guy on the internet…
Wonder what the cardinals paid for that add space lol
And the Mets are good with lying cheating scum leading their team? The Red Sox are ok with Cora? I wouldn’t be if I was a fan or either franchise.
I do not think the Red Sox need to worry about Cora. MLB will take Cora down. I suspect his managing days are over.
“MLB did not issue him any punishment, however, after he was gave the league his full cooperation “and admitted to everything,” Andy Martino of SNY tweets. It seems Beltran changed his tune since the league’s investigation started in November, though, as he initially denied any knowledge of violations on the Astros’ part.”
So he lied about everything, got caught, then confessed to everything. That’s not what I’d call “full cooperation.” He (and the rest of the players that cheated) should absolutely be punished.
Amen Priggs89; from a long time Met’s fan.
Just show some class and fire Beltran and move on.
Hear no Evil, See no Evil, Speak no Evil!
Should be an interesting season, especially games involving the Anstros, Red Sox, and Mets. The heckling from fans will be merciless and you just know some of the media who interview the players are going to stir the pot. No doubt some players are going to be outspoken about what happened despite what MLB or team management want to silence the criticism.
I wish the Mets would just go and dismiss Beltran now. Any winning we do while he’s in charge will always have the specter of this cheating scandal held over it. Literally the only reason he isn’t being dealt with by the league is because they’re choosing to not discipline the players. The report specifically mentions that it was the players’ idea in the first place, and if Beltran is the one player mentioned, then he must have played a major part. The statements that he’s made on this show a carefully crafted, lawyer-influenced statement that shows how little integrity he has. We can still hire Showalter or Baker and bring in a respected guy with experience, not to mention two guys who are hungry to finally win a World Series.
I totally agree. I have been a Met’s fan since Who’s swell Boswell.
If they don’t fire him it will stain every Met’s game played.
“One of the biggest scandals in baseball history.” Who lets these reporters be so reckless and why?
For a player to steal signs is one thing, but to institutionalize cheating is a big leap.
Of course it is. And the vast majority of MLB fandom agrees. The Blackstros will live in infamy. That WS title will never be respected outside corrupt fans.
They stole a title, dozens of individual accolades and almost won a 2nd
What’s your definition of bigger scandal in MLB? Haha haha
Going to interesting day at Chavez Ravine when the Mets come to town.
Would’ve been great to have a series suspension at the Home Opening Series for all Astros involved. All the roster moves would be amusing.
MLB lucked out in this mess in one respect: imagine how horrible it would have been for baseball if the Astros had beaten the Nationals.
There would have been a widespread, even overwhelming, outcry to take the current title away from the Astros.
After all, does anyone out there seriously think the Astros stopped cheated in 2019 when cheating helped them win a title in 2017?
Not that there’s any way that the LEAGUE could punish them by doing this, but what if the MLB Hall of Fame came out and said that any player or coach who was on the team in the time frame specified in the report is prohibited from ever appearing on the ballot? Obviously it doesn’t retroactively address the HOF’s other issues of having cheaters like Gaylord Perry in, but it would make for an interesting position.
When the league punished the Black Sox in 1919, all of those players were prevented from earning future money playing baseball (in an era where they did not make the kind of cash that these guys do today). If Manfred doesn’t have the guts to take on the Players Association and do what’s right here, then maybe the Writers or the administrators at the HOF itself can simply say now, and commit to it, that we will never ever consider any player or coach from those teams. It further shames them for what they did, it further ruins their reputation to their fans, and it prevents young stars like Correa, Bregman, and Altuve from ever reaching the pinnacle of recognition that they’re on track to get to, while ruining the legacy of Beltran and McCann. That may be the best message to be sent to the players in lieu of suspensions and fines.
I find it highly insulting to all fans that MLB did not fine or suspend any players.
The argument that they couldn’t prove who benefited from the sign stealing is ludicrous & disingenuous.
At one point, they were banging on a garbage can, for god’s sake. How could any player claim, with anything resembling a straight face, that they didn’t know what was going on?
Of course, every position player (and maybe their pitchers) knew they were stealing signs. And then they brought a monitor into the dugout to cheat “better” in the playoffs!
So, every player either partook in the cheating or they failed to notify their team & the league that there was cheating going on.
Every regular position player on the Astros should be suspended for 60 games, just like steroid users are suspended now.
There’s no valid excuse for not doing that. They knowingly cheated, just like steroid users.
Note: I would absolve rookies & bench players from this penalty because most of them were either kids or journeymen fighting to stay in the big leagues, and they would have been Understandably afraid of being sent to the minor, released, or blackballed from baseball for reporting that stars like Altuve & Beltran were cheating.
It would be interesting in that case to see the Astros field for 60 games a team of rookies, bench guys, AAA and AA players.
Agree it’s insulting, btw. It’s typical in fraud cases that the cheating side is presumed to have benefited. It’s like obstruction of justice or attempted robbery–there’s no need to prove an underlying crime or that it was successful.
2017 and 2018 World Series Champion’s the Los Angeles Dodgers!
It sure could have been
Not for nothin’, but a few years ago when pitching was becoming super dominant, averages went down, strike outs went up, etc.
It is an arms race. One side has been into launch angle the last couple years,a fad that is an example of a way to counter the dead offense. Betting a wave of cheating semi-league wide started in 2016-18. The stuff gets around fast.
I wondered if he thought it was a slap on the wrist – yup, he sure did.
I watched the whole WS twice back in 2017 cuz I never saw the Dodgers get crushed on every pitch thrown that whole year and it just didn’t sit right as a fan watching that happen. Astros pitchers dominated the Dodgers, no excuses there, but then again, the Dodgers did not know if a fastball or breaking ball were coming. Other than Darvish clearly tipping his pitches, there was no other explanation for the Astros hitters sitting on breaking balls or hitting HRs on many fastballs. It was fishy then and now with evidence, makes sense. The amount of HRs that series had too was ridiculous, including Puig one arming a HR with his left hand.
How ’bout LA fans whisper into someone’s ear
to hold a parade for the “honesty” and
“integrity” of the 2017 Dodger World Series
real winners.
Ok now, any umpire who knowingly misses calls should be fired for negatively effecting the outcome of a game. This effects players actual livelihood.
Whoever decided to use juiced baseballs should banned from ever working again. How many pitchers careers are in jeopardy because of the home run ball.
Anyone caught using peds or ped blockers should be banned for life because they are gaining an illegal advantage and impacting the games’ outcome. A dirty player is beating clean players and directly affecting their earning potential and possibly even their job security.
Any organization whose players are using should be fined just as heavily as the Astros were. This puts more emphasis on the team being involved in policing itself.
Pitchers using pine tar or agents to grip the baseball should be just as illegal as players using the same product to grip the bat.
Taking ANY action to create an unfair advantage other than a natural means should be met with the harshest of penalty.
This brings me to the Astros’ forfeited draft picks. The trans drafting directly behind Houston gives them an advantage over all the other teams. Why not give those picks directly to the Dodgers!
Picking up a pitcher who tips his pitches, or even a catcher, is one thing. Studying players’ and coaches’ tendencies between games is doing your homework.
Using non uniformed people with cameras, radios, tv’s computers, phones, etc, during games, that’s completely different.
Then again, isn’t that what football does on every play? They have coaches speaking directly into the players’ helmets giving them information collected by people in catbird seats with binoculars and cameras, telling coaches what the other team is doing. Then they sit in the bench and go over computer generated images. I’m sure they have the technology to actually listen in on the communications.
Either let them all do it all the time or make the penalties so painful that management is adamant about not looking the other way.
Although I’m glad that MLB has disciplined the astros… As a Dodgers Fan, nothing will change the fact that our team and fan base was cheated out of a World Series Championship in 2017. Having been at Dodger Stadium for Game 7, watching the astros celebrate on our field is a memory that I will unfortunately never forget