With the market showing a big appetite for star third basemen, the Rockies now appear to be increasingly likely to strike a trade involving Nolan Arenado. MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reports on Twitter that there’s now “roughly a 50/50 chance” of a deal coming together with one of the six teams to have expressed interest.
Oddsmaking of this sort is inherently ambiguous and non-verifiable, so skepticism is well warranted. And we heard just days ago that the Colorado organization hasn’t been especially aggressive in hammering out scenarios involving its biggest star. But if Morosi’s sources have an accurate read on the thinking of the Rockies’ leadership, then it’s at least now highly plausible that a swap could emerge. And that’d represent a notable development given the highly speculative nature of Arenado’s trade availability to this point. GM Jeff Bridich has previously made clear the team is open to considering proposals, but it has never seemed particularly likely that Arenado would be moved.
Notably, Arenado has full no-trade rights. But he has expressed a desire to win and may be willing to facilitate a deal if it means finding a better chance elsewhere. The Rox have decided against further payroll expansion and look to be in a bit of a bind when it comes to finding much-needed roster upgrades.
Even if that’s not a major complication, interested teams will be wary of giving up too much in trade capital for a contract that includes a post-2021 opt-out provision. It’d be one thing if Arenado was simply a high-cost player with two years of control, as is the case for Kris Bryant of the Cubs (another potential trade candidate, at least once his service-time grievance is wrapped up). But what’s worrisome in the Arenado deal is the combination of the threat of losing the player, in the event he performs well enough to opt out, with the fear of what it would mean if he doesn’t.
We just got open-market confirmation that the Rockies paid full boat for Arenado when they inked him last winter. Fellow star third bagger Anthony Rendon landed a seven-year, $245MM pact that just topped the $234MM promise Arenado received for the rights to the same number of would-be free agent campaigns. You could argue for days over which player is preferable — Rendon has outperformed Arenado in recent seasons, but also has had some health challenges in the past and is a bit older — but it seems fair to assess them both in the same general range of value.
Rendon’s deal includes full no-trade protection but no opt-out chances. Other than the cash required, it cost the Angels only some upcoming draft compensation. Given that, it’s a bit difficult to imagine an organization that came up short on Rendon would be particularly anxious to part with major young talent to acquire Arenado.
There is certainly some interest, though. The Rangers have perhaps been tied most closely to Arenado; the organization was highly disappointed to see Rendon land elsewhere in the division. The Braves are also said to have reached out, but it remains difficult to imagine that organization suddenly opening the books for such a massive deal. Morosi hints that the Dodgers have had some level of interest, but also says they’re not the primary suitor. It seems the Rox are not enamored of the idea of placing Arenado in the NL West. We might presume that the reputed pursuers of free agent Josh Donaldson — along with the Braves, the Twins and Nationals — are going to have at least some level of interest in Arenado. It seems there’s at least a mystery suitor or two floating around as well. Arenado is, after all, good enough to displace even a solid existing regular.
Morosi suggests (Twitter link) that the Nats have indeed spoken with the Colorado organization about Arenado. Unsurprisingly, the report indicates that the Nats aren’t keen to part with young center fielder Victor Robles for Arenado — or for the Cubs’ Kris Bryant. That more or less goes without saying, at least with regard to Arenado, for all of the reasons noted above (particularly since Rendon was the Nats’ own free agent). Robles has some things to iron out, but he’s also still just 22 years of age, can be controlled through the 2024 season, and just turned in a 2.5 fWAR / 4.1 rWAR campaign.
It’s tough to imagine a deal in which another team offers up significant assets to take on the entire Arenado contract. But the Rockies presumably won’t be interested in a deal that doesn’t feel like a win, both internally and to the fanbase. It’s interesting to ponder whether involving additional players — the Rox have a mix of surplus-value talent and underperforming contracts — might help form a more plausible structure than a classic veteran-for-prospect deal.
Chad623
Definitely a guy I wouldn’t mind having on my team, but those home/road splits are a bit frightening when taking his massive contract into consideration…
bucnole31658
No need to absorb it, he opts our after 21 any way.
deweybelongsinthehall
Wonder if the union would allow a window to re-negotiate. These opt outs could hurt a player who wants to be moved because a team wanting him probably wants him for more than two years.
Old User Name
I don’t think that’s up to the union. I think it’s up to the trading team (Colorado).
justinept
It’s up to both. But the union is the one more likely to say no. Nolan would need to get value for losing his opt out leverage. That means the trading team would need to add more money to the deal. The union is not going to set the precedent of allowing players to devalue their current deal to be traded.
deweybelongsinthehall
Agreed as without value added, why give up the opt out?
AllRiseForTheJudge
The only way I could see a player giving up the opt-out is if it’s in a restructuring of his contract. Tack on an extra couple million per and backload it so that his 2024-2026 salaries come out to a higher AAV and give him an opt-out after 2023.
The acquiring team gets four years of control and a window to win. Nolan gets more guaranteed money if he stays, which by his age-32 season would make the most sense. The acquiring team would likely have him for the rest of his career.
Robertowannabe
If he gets moved and the ugly splits turn out to be the new norm for him with the new team, he may well not opt out fearing a big reduction in new offers. The new team would need to absorb the big contract with a player not playing up to it.
Ketch
Oh his opting out is far from a guarantee at the salary he is looking at in that deal…
DarkSide830
no way at all. he’s not leaving that money on the table.
rondon
Unless he under performs away from Colorado and doesn’t opt out- which the writer alluded to above.
its_happening
Arenado is not opting out if he’s traded to a pitcher-friendly park. He will realize he’s not a $30+mil player. Regardless, buyers beware. Teams should be aware of the risk and possible repercussions if Arenado does opt out.
housemoney
Exactly right. His current contract would pay him 5/$164 or $32.8M/yr from 2022-26 and there is no way the market will offer him anything close to that unless he’s somehow able to maintain his gaudy Coors numbers at sea level. That is not happening, btw. Take any example you want, but let’s start with the greatest hitter in CO history, Larry Walker. Walker was a 5 WAR/ yr stud over 10 years in CO and a 3 WAR/yr solid contributor in 8 years in other places. Hi BA was 50 pts lower and OPS 100+ pts lower during seasons away from Coors, and that’s not touching his insane home/away splits while with CO (he batted .461 at home and .286 on the road in 1999!!).
I would bet my house that Arenado immediately becomes a <3 WAR guy if he is traded. That is nothing to sneeze at, but will put him outside the top 10 at the 3B position.
MoRivera 1999
I wouldn’t be surprised if he pulled a DJ LeMahieu and transitioned just fine. The guy is a consummate professional. He’ll adjust.
Mikel Grady
Going to Wrigley Field
cards81
Matt Holiday
gregbrotz95
Dexter Fowler, Matt Holliday, DJ LeMahieu, etc..saying anyone that leaves Coors Field is going to automatically get worse is such a lazy narrative.
dalejr
I disagree regarding the splits for Arenado. He didn’t give up any power away from Colts field they were 20 (A) and 21 (H). Also could the fewer RBI’s be due to his teammates being worse on the road meaning fewer oppty’s with RISP? His glove work is ridiculous I’d have no problem taking him. There is so much you have to factor in when discussing home and away splits like the travel time and time zone changes I feel like he is the best 3B in MLB and will be so for at least the next 5 years
BlueSkyLA
His home/away splits are no less distinctive than for anybody else who plays at Coors. The easiest way to see it is with career OPS: .995 (home), .799 (away). Blackmon, just to name another Rockies player, has similar home/road splits. Any team would be happy to have his away splits in their lineup but they are going to take into account that nobody hits as well away from Denver as they do in Denver. Defensively he probably is the best in the game since Brooks Robinson, and that won’t change no matter where he plays.
housemoney
All true, but I don’t agree that “Any team would be happy to have his away splits in their lineup” at $34M/yr. His away OPS for a whole season would be 14th from the top for 3Bs (Bregman) in 2019. That is not elite. I absolutely agree, however, that he’s a spectacular defender and that should move with him to another team. I also agree he’s a pro, but physics have laws for a reason.
BlueSkyLA
I’m not disagreeing necessarily but I am seeing a lot of assumptions in this discussion that a team would have to shake out a bunch top prospects to land a trade for Arenado when what they’d really have to do is be prepared to take on the salary. The excess value in his contract isn’t huge by any means. The Rockies would have to pay it down considerably if they hoped to get even one top name back in return. As for defense, it tends to be undervalued.
neurogame
I’d like to see him manning 3B at Chavez Ravine, but I wonder at what cost of prospects and factoring in the entire life of the contract. I wasn’t happy with the Pollock signing as I thought it was unnecessary and an overpay, but if the Rockies agreed to swap contracts, I’d be a little more lenient on which players not named Lux to give.. I’d still be reluctant to give up May as well as that would do him a disservice, being thrust into that thin air his first full year and expecting better results than what he displayed last year in blue.
BlueSkyLA
Given that the excess value on his contract is only in the neighborhood of $30M (and is arguably inflated due to playing at Coors), the Rockies couldn’t realistically demand Lux or May for him without throwing in quite a bit of cash. A trade on the order of Downs + Cartaya should be enough if the Rockies are motivated to clear the payroll completely.
oldredgunslinger
If he goes anywhere, I believe it will be the Rangers. No other team is willing to absorb the entire contract.
baseballpun
The Rangers have a decent squad, but would Arenado waive his no-trade to go to the Rangers if he wants to play for a contender? Tough division there with the Astros and A’s and improved Angels.
Colorado Red
Well, It would be a significant raise for Nolan.
The CO tax rate is .4625%. Multiply that by 35 mil, and there are lot of reasons (all green) to say yes.
On the Home Road splits, I would not worry about it.
He would have to worry about going to and from altitude every weeks or.
Seem some players improve.
JonathanWB
Colorado state income tax rate is 4.5%, so his state income tax bill is roughly $1.5 million.
Each state/city with an income tax where MLB plays collects from the players, so Arenado would save if traded to a state with a lower income tax.
As of 2019, Arizona, Michigan, and Pennsylvania had lower rates that Colorado (looking at the top rate, if more than one bracket), while Florida, Texas, and Washington State all had no state income tax at all.
Whoever gets him will have to do something to have him waive his no-trade, so it’s likely any difference in state taxes will be considered in that calculation for him.
RunDMC
Why not? That’s a decent contract based on Rendon’s deal, but if he opts out, you have 2 years to go for it, while saving a lot of money. How much is it worth it to some teams to go for it for those 2 years? How much is COL willing to include for better/more prospects? I could imagine ATL pulling off something but there’s a lot of risk. A top 4 of Acuna, Albies, Freeman and Arenado would be fun to watch.
justinept
Nolan has 7/$234 left. Rendon got 7/215. You’d really need to be desperate to give up something of value to pay more for Nolan when you could’ve just offered Rendon that same deal a month ago and not given up prospects.
jorge78
The article says Rendon
got 7/245…..
steelerbravenation
You could have offered it but there is no guarantee that Tendon would have accepted the same exact deal from another club
Ppl on here act like players would rather go to another team if everything is equal
wordonthestreet
Rendon turned down 7/215m and got 7/245m
deweybelongsinthehall
He did.
cards81
It still applies…why would the Nats want Arenado when they couple ah e just paid Rendon? Doesn’t make sense at all
jkurk_22
What happens if he gets hurt or busts and decided not to opt out? Then the acquiring team would be screwed. The team acquiring has to be able to afford him if the worst was to come to be. You can’t just assume he’s healthy and plays well and opts out
dimitrios in la
This guy is a terrific example of why teams should be very leery of giving just about anyone a long-term contract. (Philadelphia and San Diego are also recent examples.)
holecamels35
Why? Basically every long term deal will look bad in the final years, but this is the going rate for elite players and. he’s been every bit the part so far. It’s not his fault the Rockies are a confused organization with no real direction.
its_happening
Why? Buyer’s remorse and a bleak future for both team and player with said team.
locutus
It’s more likely he requested a trade than any sort of buyer’s remorse
its_happening
Then Arenado has a death wish.
MoRivera 1999
No more than you. Arenado is a consummate professional. He will adjust and be a stud wherever he goes.
housemoney
Indeed. Arenado likely makes it to Cooperstown if he completes his career in Colorado and he’s just a top-10 to 15 3B anywhere else. Charlie Blackmon understood the situation early in his career: be an attention-getting all star in CO or be an average also-ran anywhere else. Take his splits from any season, like last year’s 1.171 OPS at home and .731 on the road, and you see why he, like Arenado, happily re-signed with CO. I mean, we’re talking about a guy who was selected as an all-star last year with production in 74 road games that wouldn’t even make him a starter on most teams (.256/.299/.432).
bigjonliljon
Rangers don’t have the trade assets to get him.
oldredgunslinger
The Rangers have Josh Jung,Sam Huff, Brock Burke and are loaded at the lower levels. They rated around 6th as far as farm systems.
JeffOwens10
They absolutely have the assets and the capacity to take on the whole contract. It’s all a question of how much the Rockies want to kick in to pay for better prospects.
AllinTX
No team really needs “big assets” to acquire him along with the whole contract.
larry48
If the Rockies were willing to trade him to La Dodgers. I think the Dodgers would take his whole contract. The return would be smaller also the Rockies could give the Dodger a choice of three bad RP contracts to choose one. I believe they could work it out and Arenado would waive his no-trade clause.
rondon
Doubtful they’d trade in the division.
PinstripedPride
What about the White Sox? Recent activities in the Central have sort of opened up the division race a little. I could totally see Chicago pulling this move out of thin air
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Doubt the Sox make a move. They are rumored to regard Robert, Madrigal, and Kopech as untouchable and Vaughn as nearly so. After that, there’s a huge drop-off, so I don’t think they have the pieces to get it done. Second, they have Moncada, who was worth about 5 WAR last year, while Arenado’s away OPS is only .800. Really not sure how big an upgrade it would be. Even if they throw Moncada in RF, Arenado’s contract is huge for a guy who’s not an elite bat outside of Denver.
Iago407
As much as I’d love to see Arenado in a White Sox uniform next year, I kinda doubt Reinsdorf has the stomach for such a contract, even after all of these moves. Man, that would be a fun roster though. Maybe move Madrigal, Basabe and some lesser pieces for Arenado, move Moncada back to 2B.
AndyWarpath
Arenado’s contract only has about 10-20m worth of excess value (assuming front offices believe he will opt out). I can’t imagine the prospect return to Colorado being elite if the acquiring team takes on the entire contract.
amanda_hugandkiss
Something interesting might happen.. Equally so, it might not. My name is Jon Morosi. Read my article to learn more
excusemeflo
Lol, I thought the same thing. He’d make a great weatherman. 50% chance of rain every day! This way I’m never wrong!
driftcat28 2
I thought the same! I hate when they say 50/50, they’re basically not saying anything at that point.
MoRivera 1999
Saying that he’s just as likely to be traded as not IS saying something, especially, for example, if you thought he was most likely staying put.
steelerbravenation
Riley, Waters, Wright & Wilson for Arenado & $25 million
Brixton
I really doubt he costs that much talent to acquire
kwolf68
That’s a pretty hefty return. Waters is a top prospect, Riley has a ton of power, potential, is a good athlete, but has K issues. Still, there is upside there and he could slot in at 3B or play LF. Wright and Wilson are both very good pitching prospects, though not sure how either will play in Coors. If Wright can iron out his command issues he could be a front line starter.
Lots to give up, though the Braves can afford to move any of these guys. Waters is behind Pache, Arenado would make Riley expendable and despite moving the two SPs, the Braves still would have a plethora of pitching talent on the farm, highlighted by Anderson.
Pacman
If that is the price for two years of Arenado, what is your price for 2 years of Bryant. A big overspend steelernation……don’t give me he may stay the duration…..
Ketch
Baseballtradevalues.com says Riley and Toussaint for Arenado and $30 mill is a fair deal for both sides.
DarkSide830
ive heard enough of Toussaint in these deals. BBTV clearly has a unique love for him.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
If Baseball Trade Values says it, it must be true.
mhaftman7
It also says Vince Velasquez, Nick Pivetta, and Luis Garcia (Low-A SS) would be more valualble than Arenado.
BrianBrian
someone call Klentak
rct
That site is a crap shoot. I was messing with it yesterday and it says that Yu Darvish has literally no trade value and that a Darvish for Brad Brach deal would be a fair deal. I don’t think citing that site is a good idea.
justinept
This would be a huge overpay even if we assume Arrenado doesn’t opt out. Teams deemed Rendon too expensive at 7/$215. Nolan has 7/$236 left. Why give up anything to acquire Nolan when you already passed on Rendon at less money?
Sky14
Well for starters that’s not what Rendon got..
beyou02215
If I’m the Rockies, I would accept that offer in a heartbeat.
larry48
But Arenado won’t waive his no trade clause to Atlanta.
baseballlifer
The Nationals want a Superstar 3rd basemen but don’t want to trade Robles…pay Donaldson then!
Tazbk
They are willing to pay Donaldson. It wouldn’t make sense to trade Robles. You just create another huge hole in CF that you have no way of filling. 33 million dollar contract and giving up 5 years of control with Robles isn’t smart business.
spudchukar
Maybe you could make the case that Rendon is the better hitter, but not by much. That said Arenado is the superior defender, without question. Not that Rendon is weak at third, but you are talking about arguably the greatest defender the game has seen. Just to make that clear.
bucnole31658
He’s not even top 10 greatest defenders ever at his position lol
excusemeflo
Huh?? Enlighten us and give us 10 third basemen that are better defenders than Arenado. Chapman is about the only one that I could see having a slight edge over him.
excusemeflo
I will admit that I didn’t notice the “ever” there, but still. He’s without a doubt a top ten defensive 3B all time
deweybelongsinthehall
Hard to compare different eras but In the 60s and 70s there were at least three equal defensively. Brooks Robinson, Aurillio Rodriguez and as much as I hate him because of the Bill Lee, Mickey Rivers fight, Nettles.
ncaachampillini
Well it’s hard to compare 120 years + of players but every time I hear someone talk about it they always say Nolan is the best defensive 3B since Brooks Robinson so I think it’s fair to say that spudchukr is correct in what he wrote.
AndyMeyer
ncaachampillini
Best defensive third basemen since Brooks Robinson?
Scott Rolen might object
hiflew
Anybody might object, but…
Objection overruled.
InkysOliveGarden
What the hell about Beltre?
TJECK109
I’d like to see Rendon’s numbers after a season at coors and the ever so popular juiced ball
Dutch Vander Linde
You could look at his numbers every time the Nationals played at Coors.
Rerand
Arenado is a very good defender. But to anyone who’s seen him play extensively, he’s been riding a reputation for a while now, too.
adc6r
Arenado is a great defender yes…
But he’s no Brooks Robinson
its_happening
Or Rolen.
imindless
Missed the mark spud. Rendon is a far superior offensive player without the help of coors. Rendon is also a good glove maybe not grest like arenado but rendon has a superior bat. Just look at the splits arenado turns into a .260 hitter with a .330 obp and 25 homerun guy instead of 40 and .320 guy at coors. Someone will regret this deal big time if it gets done.
DTD_ATL
Arenado’s power numbers are close to the same on the road, it’s his average that takes a hit. Coors has a massive outfield so more balls are bound to drop in that wouldn’t otherwise. He also plays a guaranteed 30 games a yr on the road in notorious pitcher’s parks in the NL West. His number would most likely even out to around a .285/.340/.875 slash
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Check out Arenado’s road OPS, just about .800. Away from Coors, he’s only a little above average while Rendon is elite.
AndyMeyer
Mike Schmidt?
ForestCobraAL
–
ZERO
–
stretch123
Alex Kirilloff, Brusdar Graterol, Wander Javier, and Lewis Thorpe for Arenado. Twins get a long term answer at 3B. Rockies get two top 100 prospects with All star potential and two other solid prospects with potential to be good major leaguers.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
As a White Sox fan, I say go for it. The twins lose prospect capital and financial flexibility while getting a great defender with a little above average bat. He’s just not a superstar away from Coors.
Sky14
That’s too much for Arenado. Kirilloff and Gaterol are near big league ready and are elite prospects. He’s already getting paid near market rate and has an opt out in two years.
AndyWarpath
Big overpay. Arenado is a 6war player set to earn 35m a year. He has value, but not excessive value. If the acquiring team is not giving up any money, than Colorado will be happy with a single top 100 type prospect.
Payne Train
He’s close to market value – I really doubt that they will get anymore than a top 75 prospect, young controllable MLB guy and a random fill in.
Unless it’s a bad contract swap .
I could see the Cards trading Fowler back to them – that would greatly improve what they would have to send with him.
Doubt it happens, but it would nice
stlouiskid1
What market? That is the flaw in this argument always.
As if there is an unlimited supply of 6 WAR 3rd baseman that all you have to do is put your order in and pay the going contract rate. Players like Bryant and Arrenado rarely are available.
rondon
Absolutely. No one is going to get Bryant or Arenado for some ‘homer’ package of mid level guys and a bad contract exchange.
Payne Train
Umm I don’t know – Machado, Arenados own contract, Rendon not to mention the Harpers, Goldschmidts, and so on . How can you argue that his 32 million isn’t market value for his numbers or his position when there are so many comp contracts ????
Payne Train
No one is going to give up a ton for him, otherwise they would have chased Rendon without having to give up anything.
Or they would have chased Machado
Or would have signed Donaldson by now
People are forgetting that Arenado is getting around 34 MILLION a year .
AndyWarpath
Josh Donaldson says hi.
joefriday1948
This is the best news of spring training almost. The Rockies are dead with their current roster and bringing up Colton Welker will ignite the team. Unless they do something big, ASAP fire the GM and Manager ASAP
kwolf68
Welker isn’t that special of a prospect. Why would he ignite anything? He hit .250 with 10 homers in AA last year, that dude isn’t in Colorado next year.
What may excite Rox fans is another year of growth from McMahon and Rogers playing a full season.
Rox have no prospects that are ready for the show (unless you count Rogers) and their farm is not going to provide any immediate dividends. Nevin raked in AFL last year then went to AA and promptly put up mediocre numbers, Rollison and Lavigne are nice prospects but are a long ways off. One kid I do like is Vilade, I wouldn’t sleep on him, though he too is a long ways off.
rxbrgr
Perhaps if Colorado agrees to pay future cash if Arenado doesn’t opt out, as Miami did with Stanton, that can be a way to up the prospect ante a little bit.
ronnsnow
So he’ll either be traded, or he won’t be. Wow that’s some cutting edge reporting there.
CrewBrew
well the writers here are pretty clueless. kind of like watching Stephen A
OIC2021
Look for a Mike Clevinger deal to Colorado involving Arrenado. If this happens , then Lindor definitely goes to the Dodgers. Jose Ramirez moves to SS
Brixton
The Indians are trying to cut cash, not add a 235M contract
ronnsnow
If the Indians trade Clevinger and Lindor, they are in rebuild mode. Why would they get Arenado while starting a rebuild?
imindless
So i guess you guys cant look at bigger picture? If they trade lindor and get a boat load of prospects from dodgers then trade clevinger who is 29 for nolan thats a great deal. The main point is that arenado is much cheaper than what lindor is asking for (reported over 350 million over a bunch of years) so in part indians retool and dont lose much in lindor trade while also getting younger adding more depth.
kwolf68
Nope. For reasons already stated and I also think the Rockies are more than 1 good SP from being competitive. Their rotation is absolutely dreadful. Gray and Marquez are solid, but after that nothing but zeroes.
ronnsnow
I’m not willing to write off Freeland just yet, but he has a short leash in 2020.
hockeyjohn
Looks like you had too many adult beverages over the New Year’s Day holiday. It makes no sense for the Indians to take on that contract. If they could afford that contract, they would just pay Lindor.
bbatardo
I still can’t see him being traded since his NTC and opt out give him too much leverage which means teams won’t overpay to get him.
adc6r
@bbatardo
On the other hand that scenario gets worse the closer he gets to his opt out. So from the Rockies perspective, now is the time to gt what you can.. a high ceiling controllable MLB player [at a needed position e.g. CF] and a top 50MLB prospect (or maybe two top 100) PTBN could be involved but this is about the ceiling I see teams giving up. Of course the value will vary according to your farm system
cards81
Why would the Nats be interested in him? They could have resigned Rendon and not give up any talent…
adc6r
They made Rendon one of the best offers out there but it is ultimately the player…
Except of course A-Rods Boston Red Sox contract that was nullified…
look it up you young uns
cards81
Lol the Nats offered him 210-215…not bad but obviously not even close to what he accepted…plus the contract they offered him had a lot of deferred money…maybe the Nats are hoping Colorado will pay some of his contract but that seems unlikely since the Nats don’t want to give up much Talent…just doesn’t make sense
adc6r
the difference in AAV was close. The Nats lost him on length of contract
cards81
They offered him the same amount of years lol maybe you should “look it up” before commenting
“ The Nationals offered the 29-year-old a seven-year contract in the range of $210 million to $215 million in September, but that deal included deferral payments to be paid seven years after the contract expires. If that is the case, this offer is significantly below market value for two reasons.”
adc6r
Stand corrected but it is still one of the top offers out there made before the end of the season before the market was set. we also don’t know and never will how high Rizzo actually went in informal conversations. So I still disagree it was below market value since that offer SET the market at over 30 MM
cards81
No the market was set by Arenado who is getting 35 mil a year…Rendon has actually been worth more than Arenado so why would he accept 30 mil a year and seven years deferred money..and you are right we don’t know what went on behind doors but obviously Rendon would have stayed on a WS caliber team if the Nats would have offered him his true worth…so once again..why would the Nats trade for him if all they had to do was pay Rendon?
dirkg
This 50/50 dialogue is based on Arenados opt out opportunity after 2021. I imagine the Rockies are looking at this as if they only have 2 years of control and probably would rather not have to pay top dollar for an aging 3B at the end of that contract. The challenge is that is the face of the franchise and puts a lot of butts in seats. Trading him sends a definitive message to that fanbase.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@dirkg
Agreed – also think his value isn’t going to drop even if he becomes a half season rental in July 2021. Assuming the Rockies stay similarly mediocre the Rox could be dangling him to a contender, and dangling that contender to him. Decent post season run & he might be willing to extend with his new team…. plus less of a financial commitment to the new team with the potential opt out as you mention..
Of course the one problem with that is the circa $50 million the Rox have to pay him in the interim…
Personally I think it’s daft the Rox both made the commitment and accepted a three year opt out, but to get cold feet this early illustrates how badly the FO suddenly rate the rest of the organisation.
southi
Please Braves don’t go down this road. I really would love to see the Braves have a great thirdbaseman, but the cost in talent AND annual salary would be difficult to stomach. Then you combine the fact that his splits are historically poor and that he had an opt out soon. That is a lot of risk to assume. No, just please no.
solaris602
I have to agree. Braves are better off overpaying Donaldson on a 4-year deal than trading for either Arenado or Bryant. The latter 2 options carry waaaaayyy too much downside.
bigbadjohnny
Donaldson……..past his prime….wants four year contract……Dl Liability now…..
Arenado………BIG contract…….his numbers are lower outside of Coors Field……..Best hitting third baseman……
Bryant…..going into his Prime Years…..will cost high level prospects in a trade……Free Agent after 2021…….his agent will ask for $350 – $400 million
there are your choices if your team wants to win !
RunDMC
New reports from BR stating ATL has made a 4-year offer to Donaldson, along with MIN, WSH. Bowden/Steve Phillips also reported this 1/1/2020.
ncaachampillini
It is crazy that the entire 3B holdup right now is being caused by the sloth like speed of the Kris Bryant Arbitrator.
Teams that potentially want JD can hold off on the 4th year $100 mil + demand knowing they can fall back on KB.
Arrenado trade partners won’t offer Colorado what they want knowing JD and KB are still options.
Everyone and their grandma knows that Bryant will lose his Grievance or it would throw MLB into chaos. Just make your darn ruling already will ya man?
The second that is finally announced I bet within 48 hours JD is signed, KB is traded and Arrenado market takes clarity.
WideWorldofSports
Lol @ chances being 50/50.
BlueSkyLA
If you believe in surplus value calculations (it’s at least a good talking point), Arenado’s value on the market is around $30M. This is the neighborhood where you’d look for a return for the Rockies assuming no cash changes hands in the deal. This feels like one highly-rated prospect or some combination that adds up to the same.
Anyway that 50-50 prediction is a total copout. He’s really just saying he doesn’t have any insight, that it’s a coin flip.
jekporkins
I’d rather have Bryant over two years than that Arenado contract with the Coors Field effect in play. Less risk for sure. There aren’t a lot of hitters who improve after leaving Denver.
adc6r
I think most of you would agree on that preference…
IF it is indeed two years of control
T_Rexx2
I dont really need Arenado to improve, just keep up what he’s done. Even if he’s 80% the hitter he was with the Rockies, he’s still an impact bat with a vacuum glove.
exile
Bryant is a mediocre fielder though. The Cubs also plan on competing in 2020, and aren’t looking to rebuild.
MoRivera 1999
Yeah I think the Cubs trade Bryant now (as soon as the arbitrator rules) if they get a good return.
Dabofus going to the Padres game
Phillies. You’ve already got Harper have 1 year of realmuto signed a bunch of guys.
Phillies get Arrenado and money if Arrenado opts in
Rockies get Bohm Howard De Los Santos Moniak.
T_Rexx2
Sounds right to me. Phillies need more. One more big bat is necessary. They still need some pitching though, unless they think the pitching is gonna take a big step forward with Price there.
DarkSide830
theyre not trading both Bohm and Howard. theyre too infatuated with both.
RunDMC
Yes yes…please give PHI another massive contract, while also depleting their farm. Also love seeing a former #1 overall pick as a throw-in.
Kpaul130
What a dumb team. Why did they go out of their way to sign him to an extension in the first place ? Should’ve just let him hit the free agent market and let him choose where he wants to go
T_Rexx2
Well now they can trade him and get a lot more value than whatever the QO gets them. Or they hang on to him and build around him.
larry48
He still has a choice where he goes and gets 33 million per year while he waits for the team he wants. If the Rockies asked him he would tell them which team he would waive his no-trade for. Just like Stanton did, who declined St Louis and approved Yankees.
dudeman40
Rangers do have the prospects- if you say no then you don’t really follow the team.
If they can get the opt out waived or at least pushed back a couple years I think Rangers should go all in!
As we saw with Jurickson Profar – prospects are prospects.
adc6r
The Opt out is one of the preferred tools in a players arsenal. I doubt very seriously it will change
justinept
People are worrying about Nolan opting out… I’m willing to bet that his trade value actually would increase if he promised to opt out in 2 years. If a team deemed Rendon too expensive at 7/215, then why would they be OK with Nolan at 7/236? The AAV is fine, but the years are the hindrance. Guaranteeing $33 million for a guy’s age 36 season goes beyond most GM’s comfort level. Paying $35 million for just his 29 and 30 year old seasons is much more valuable.
larry48
La dodger sends 3B Rioz, 1B Beaty, and 1 SP from minors for Arenado.
Blackhawk770
At this point the Rockies should just keep him. They won’t get the package their ultimately looking for.
adc6r
A couple of overstated assumptions;
1. Nolan is a much worse hitter on the road than at home
…
Yes the numbers support this for Arenado and many other Rockies over the years. However, the hitters are coached to take advantage of Coors Field’s nature for half of their season.. How would that change in an organization that emphasizes two strike approach , spoiling pitches to get to the good one, using the whole field… The difference could be significant.
adc6r
2. Nolan will definitely opt out in two years.
…
Right now Nolan has the 2nd highest contract by AAV of any third basemen. In two years that will most likely still e in the top five or six contracts at that position. so limited room to move up. To make opting out worth it. Nolan would have to:
1) Have 2 fully healthy years
2) Perform as a top 3 offensive 3rd basemen
3) Perform at the level of a top 5 defensemen
working against him is he will be two years older and attempting to negotiate another long term top dollar deal.
In short one extended injury [especially in the second year. or an off year performance wise leaves him better off with the security the contract offers
A'sfaninLondonUK
@adc6r
“2. Nolan will definitely opt out in two years.”
“In short one extended injury [especially in the second year. or an off year performance wise leaves him better off with the security the contract offers”
So he definitely will, but then again he might not. About the same odds as offered above ;0)
adc6r
“A couple of overstated assumptions;”
was how I led off these twin posts…
see the one below
cards81
I totally agree with the splits…just dumb tkk ok think Arenado won’t perform…as a cardinals fan they said the same thing about Holiday and he was one of the best hitters I’ve seen
angt222
Thinking the Braves become WS favorites if they land Arenado. Figure Riley, and some SP (both major league ready and prospects) plus taking on a ton of salary would work for COL. Not sure what level or interest, if any, ATL has in Arenado.
sufferforsnakes
50/50? Way to go out on a limb, Morosi.
MoRivera 1999
I didn’t think he was going to be traded. Hearing that he is just as likely to be traded as not IS something to me.
BartoloHRball
Brodie (Met’s GM) needs to sequestered into the bowels of CitiField until this nonsense with Arenado is done. Brodie is likely dying to make a big splash to erase the raging dumpster fire that was the Cano deal that landed the Mets w. an albatross contract, an over-rated reliever, and gave away a future all-star in Kelenic. Every Mets fan is praying (atheists included) that Brodie avoids giving away McNeil + The Farm for Arenado being paid top $.
TheMick7
I’m certain that there is a probability of 1 out of 2 that he is traded – no doubt.
MoRivera 1999
That’s more than 1 out of 4. And that’s the difference.
bighiggy
Maybe nolan gorman and the cards competitive balance pick for arenado and all his salary?
kwolf68
If Nolan is dealt St.Louis would be a great fit, they have an excess of good young outfielders, they could easily trade two of them to Colorado. My only issue is I don’t think the Cardinals have the pitching talent the Rox would want. Guys like Cabrera Gomber and PonceDeLeon are meh. Cards don’t have the young pitching the Rox would want.
steelerbravenation
The more I think about it if the Rockies were throwing in money I would rather the Braves go out and get Arrenado. If he is here for only 2 years so be it. But if that is the case than Riley doesn’t go back to Colorado in the deal. He plays LF in Gwinnett this year and then plays it in Atlsnta the following year. If Arrenado opts our Riley moves to 3B if he stays now you decide who gets traded between him & Waters.
Ezpkns34
800 OPS outside of Coors, buyer beware
beyou02215
How much excess value is in that contract? Everyone seems to be assuming that Arenado will opt out in 2 years, but that isn’t certain. He’ll be going into his age 31 season with still a hefty $200 million owed to him. A down year(s), injuries, etc., etc., and that contract could be an albatross. If I were Colorado, I’d be shopping pretty hard.
macstruts
I’d love to see him traded just to see what he hits in a neutral park.
Road Stats 265/332/476.
Just a hunch, but if he’s traded, he’s not going to opt out. He’s going to take the money and run.
PasstheTums
I think Kris Bryant would make more sense for the Braves if they could get him without including Riley. Riley starts the year playing third at AAA, Bryant plays third in ATL. If Riley figures out how to hit breaking pitches Bryant can switch to the outfield. Braves can have their cake and eat it too.
rondon
Then who do the Cubs use at 3rd? I’m not sure they’d make the deal if Riley wasn’t part of it. Unless in a separate deal they find a different option.( Bote is not an everyday 3rd baseman.) Either way, Theo won’t give the Braves their “cake” unless he gets a big piece back.
55bums
Bottom line for Dodgers is do they want any of Arenado, Bryant, Lindor, Price, Clevenger, Betts, Hader or Donaldson.
They have the resources to get any combination of those want. The have the resources to outbid anyone even the Yankees.
Or would they rather stay within their system as they designed it a few years back and rely on their farm to deliver 2-4 contributors every year.
rondon
It would seem that the Dodgers want to win it all NOW. Their fanbase has surely waited long enough. You could say the same thing about the Braves. Pitching would help, but both of those teams need to use some of that prospect depth to make a next level move to their everyday line ups. Lindor, Bryant, Betts, Donaldson- any one could be the piece that puts them over the top… Finally.
BlueSkyLA
So it would seem, but we all have to know by now that this isn’t the FO plan. Their plan is to be good enough to win an uncompetitive division and hope to get lucky in the postseason. If nothing drastic happens between now and opening day, the Dodgers will start 2020 with their lowest starting payroll in eight years. So you can see the urgency. None.
bigbadjohnny
Phillies looking at Kris Bryant……….Bryce wants his buddy !
SWINGnMISS
Three team deal…Nolan plays third base for the Padres, move Machado to short (Were he wants to play) and Tatis to center. Trade Margot, Myers, Cal Q, and a prospect to Boston for Price and low level Catching prospect. Rockies get Hedges and something from Boston
adc6r
too many moving parts
Ezpkns34
That trade idea is certainly a Swing N Miss, so at least your name is accurate
SAINTLOUISINNYC
Only team that can get Arenado is cardinals. They have the prospects and Rockies have a history with making deal with the cardinals (Larry Walker, holiday) Rockies would be idiots to trade him to LA and rangers don’t have the prospects to pull it off
jimthegoat
Cardinals got Holliday from the Athletics
BobbyJohn
Another data point in the “Fire Jeff Bridich” calcs.
jimthegoat
Morosi knows nothing
Frisco500
Like a bunch of hs girls gossiping. Wake me up when you have something tangible.
heater
50/50 chance? No kidding?!! Wow that’s some insight!!
bigbadjohnny
Arenado to the Cubs. with $$$…..
Rockies get Quintana, Almora, Schwarber, Alzolay
larry48
But Arenado won’t waive his no-trade clause to Atlanta.