We haven’t been alone in wondering whether the Reds’ slate of offseason moves set the stage for a major swap to bring in a high-end player. But that may not be in the plans, according to a report from Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (subscription link).
Notably, per the report, there have been some eyebrow-raising negotiations this winter. The Reds, Dodgers, and Indians discussed a deal that would’ve brought Corey Seager to Cincinnati and sent Francisco Lindor to L.A., with the Cleveland organization adding young talent. The Reds also held talks on scenarios in which they’d land Lindor.
It’s always fun to hear of big names being tossed around, but in this case it doesn’t seem the chatter gained any traction. At the moment, per Rosenthal, “talks involving Lindor appear dormant.”
That being said, adding two veteran outfielders to the mix certainly has created a crowded picture for the Reds. And the team is reportedly holding some talks regarding youngster Nick Senzel. From some angles, it still seems that further discussions could be sensible.
Trouble is, Rosenthal notes, the Reds’ intervening signings have absorbed the payroll flexibility that might’ve been needed to land Lindor. While Seager is cheaper, it’s not at all clear that he’s really in play as the Dodgers pursue other opportunities.
As ever, the situation can turn on a dime. And we’re certainly not seeing the entirety of the picture here. But it seems at minimum that the Reds did not ink Nick Castellanos with anything like a specific plan in place to pull off a corresponding trade. It’s equally true, though, that the Reds now have the flexibility — in young talent, if not payroll — to jump on an opportunity should one arise.
braddy513
Reds should go after Semien. They could land him for Winker / Aquino and some prospects.
Regi Green
Doubtful Oakland is gonna sell him after his 3rd place finish in MvP voting,and their 97 win season.
BMAC81
Actually trading Semien after a 3rd place mvp and 97 win season is a very Oakland thing to do.
Begamin
Remember the time they traded Donaldson for Lawrie lmao
Regi Green
I don’t really buy that.You can say they did it with Donaldson,since they traded him after 8th place MvP finish,and a 88 win season.But that team dropped 8 wins from the year before,and Donaldson had a 90 point drop in his ops….And you think if the Reds called them,they’re not asking for Senzel?
braddy513
They may ask, but wont get him unless Semien would agree on an extension first.
Regi Green
Same thing goes for the Reds.Oaklands not actively trying to trade him,it would be the Reds trying to make that deal.
Regi Green
I pointed that out,with reason….do you have any other examples?
titanic struggle
And remember the time that Bobby Bouche…
Dbird777
There’s interest, but with Marcus only having one year left it limits what you’ll get
Vin Scully
Braddy. The Reds don’t place much value on either Winker or Aquino. Why would another club?
Dbird777
I love Winker. Guy has a great eye at the plate and a great hitting stroke. He stays healthy and he’s an .850 OPS guy at least.
And teams have got to be intrigued by Aquino.
Rembergaryredus
I like Winker, but he can’t hit LHP. Just saying
jtvincent
no one ever lets him try
letmeclearmythroat74
Everyone thought Paul O’Neil couldn’t hit lefty’s either … till someone in New York let him. Sweet Lou would never give the chance in Cincy
titanic struggle
THAT…is a great point…
mfdesquire
Winker is one-half of a fringe All-Star. Play him only against RHP, and he will put up an OPS right around .900. Problem is, against LHP, his OPS will be about .200.
Luckily for the Reds, they have Winker’s other half. Phil Ervin mashes LHP even better than Winker does RHP (and plays excellent corner OF defense too – he can also play CF).. Ervin is hopeless against RHP, though.
Jack Sprat and his wife.
Dbird777
If you think the better side of Ervin is better than Winker, I’d trade him to you so you can find out otherwise.
cpallen712
An Ervin/Winker package is honestly a pretty good, ready-made platoon. Ervin destroys lefties and Winker destroys righties.
jbasser1
Too bad only one or both will not be on the opening day roster. You pay millions for players, they are going to play.
stratcrowder
Vin….Scully. You’re so not worthy of that moniker. You spew so much worthless, mindless bs here, I have to wonder if you even follow baseball. Stupid. Just stupid.
earmbrister
Vinny doesn’t know squat. He just trolls the Reds posts. Must be a frustrated Turd(s) on a Stick fan.
Caleb Clark
Great trade idea. Maybe not give up Aquino if you’re giving up Top 30 caliber prospects. Ervin might be a better one for this.
drgntrnr
We have enough outfielders, a backlog already. In fact you picked up someone who was way behind in the depth chart in the rule 5 draft, and he had a fantastic year.
Why would we grab one that’s worse than anyone we already have out there just for a year of Semien that would be much more valuable in the short term? We’re in contention, not heading towards a rebuild, there’s no incentive to trade him for mediocre players when we can get a full year of him, and still have room left over in our payroll.
Reds aren’t getting Semien for less than Senzel, and since that would be a dumb trade for the Reds to do, it ain’t happening.
coolmacs
Honestly, I’d prefer a catcher upgrade
joeshmoe11
Reds catchers were middle of the pack in terms of wRC+ and fWAR so, while an upgrade is certainly possible, they’re in decent shape considering they have a really good C prospect in AAA.
Sopro Found
Indeed..I feel Barnhardt is a more than adequate bridge to Stephenson..he’s a fantastic defensive catcher, and I genuinely think he hits MUCH better than he showed last year..
Jock2854
This FO is on a mission, I now believe anything is possible with regards to another trade, they do need an upgrade @ SS and catching, anyone’s guess
krillin89
Is senzel capable at SS?
Caleb Clark
Suarez is. He did play there a little in the minors before being traded to the reds
mlb1225
Suarez definitely isn’t a capable SS anymore.
aknott1
Also played 96 games at SS for the Reds in 2015 when Cozart got hurt.
hiflew
2015 was 5 years ago. A lot can change in that time frame. In 2015, Miguel Cabrera was arguably the best hitter on the planet on a winning Detroit Tigers team. Now, he is an overpaid bum (exaggerating for effect) on the worst team in the league.
aknott1
Oh yeah, I wouldn’t play him there (or Senzel for that matter).
T_Rexx2
Well, if they shift often then it won’t matter who plays where. The 3B ends up playing SS anyways.
68tigers84
I don’t agree with your assessment of Cabrera. He has had numerous on & off field problems. We will see if his power comes back this year. After bicep surgery, he looked to be very careful not to over swing.
oldmanblue
The Dodger can’t or won’t do anything the initials reaching for the wallet.
amk3510
A Lindor for Seager swap wouldn’t even raise payroll that much. Get a clue instead of spreading bs narratives.
BillyBangladesh
$17M is quite a bit more than $7M, but OK.
amk3510
Yawn. Dodgers are clearly willing to spend the max without crosding the tax line. They are so far under the difference between salaries is irrelevant.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland is not trading Lindor for Seager. That idea makes no sense. Lindor is better.
spinach
If you can add a couple nice prospects in the process, and use the $10m savings to add talent (tough this late in offseason but possible via trade especially) then it could make plenty of sense.
hockeyjohn
The Dodgers were not willing to give the Indians what they wanted for Lindor. Seager does not meet the needs of the Indians.
Tatsumaki
I think the 3 way trade is still possible financially and fit wise. Indians are looking to offload lindor and get young if they add say a dustin may and senzel they add there potential replacement with all star potential and young talented arm in may. Reds upgrade with seager and dodgers get lindor it makes too much sense.
martyfan
So in this scenario does Galvis become a super utility for the Reds?
Dbird777
He probably goes somewhere in that trade. Blandino becomes the super utility guy
titanic struggle
Or Brock Holt…
hiflew
Why not? He seems like he would be a good one. He could also be traded in a different deal. You don’t have to make all your moves in one trade.
amk3510
LOL Dodgers aren’t trading a very good SS and top tier pitching prospect for an elite SS. Makes no sense to slightly upgrade.
bige69
4 man outfield of Aquino, Castellanos, Winker and Akiyama. Senzel at short. Trade at deadline if needed
BrandonGregory74
That was my thought as well. Galvis can be the bench bat.
JoeBrady
Senzel at SS sounds like some of the old-time RS fans who wanted to put Papi at 1st, Youk at 2nd, and Pedroia at SS.
Senzel has one game at SS. If he had any ability, that’s where he’d have begun when he joined the Reds.
titanic struggle
He does have e the ability. Larkins saw him last Spring and said he could definitely play SS. However, William’s said two weeks ago that they wouldn’t go there because of his labrum injury and SS being the hardest throw to make for an infielder. I’m 50/50 on whether or not he’s gone. If you can get a player that without question puts them over the top then yes, do it. On the other hand, put him somewhere and leave him there, and don’t jack with his swing and the guy is a potential AS every year if healthy…
bige69
Well, Cozart and Peraza didn’t suck when he was drafted
stevewpants
I heard Reds FO still feels like they’re one outfielder away so Puig should be signing with them any day now.
martyfan
Reds fans would love to see Puig back in Cincinnati. I don’t think the FO really is too crazy about a reunion unless they get a real bargain.
stevewpants
I was mostly joking, reds stockpiling outfielders like brewers stockpiled crap infielders last year. All that being said, big Marty fan here in Milwaukee. Uecker and him buddies for a long time.
Polish Hammer
Tribe has stockpiled 4th OF types and need a legit starter type instead.
titanic struggle
Big Uecker fan here and I’m a Reds fan. Would love to see both teams win a WS Championship for both of these guys before the inevitable…
bige69
4 man outfield of Aquino, Castellanos, Winker, and Akiyama. Senzel at short. Trade at deadline if needed
WAH1447
Braves should trade Riley for senzel just a 1 for 1 swap. The braves could start senzel at 3rd base and overall I think he will be better than Riley there just based on defense. The reds can move Riley to first base and be the heir to votto. It would work out well for both sides I believe
rdsfan05
So what ur saying is reds trade a guy who can help now for a guy who’s going to be a heir to a guy who’s still got four years left on his contract the trade makes sense for the Braves not the reds plus senzel is overall a better player and has higher potential.
Cincyfan85
Senzel>Riley and Votto is signed for 4 seasons. They aren’t worried about an heir apparent right now.
RunDMC
Based on what defense from Senzel? His CF defense in MLB/minors? So you think Senzel will be the better player because of his small-sample of manning a different defensive position? He hasn’t manned the hot corner since AA in 2017. While I doubt CIN would do that deal, I’d rather stick with Riley because he’s shown he can hit for power in a cup of coffee, stay healthy and put up average defense (albeit, in OF). I believe that our same hitting coaches (Seitzer) will help him hit the offspeed-away stuff, the same way they worked with Acuna, Albies and Swanson. Growing pains are natural. Everything will be alright.
The Human Rain Delay
Youd rather stick with Riley because your a Braves homer and will never see past that
Dbird777
Riley’s lost a lot of luster last year. No way we make that deal. If he works out for you, fine, but I’ve got Lindor, Seager, Correa, Adames and Story way ahead on the wish list.
Semien would also be up there
Dbird777
“…Reds did not ink Nick Castellanos with anything like a specific plan in place to pull off a corresponding trade.”
Idk what this guy’s smoking, but signing a guy like him all but screams “we’re making more moves” Especially when we have a big hole at SS.
dynamite drop in monty
Cigarettes???!!
Les Chesterfield
So you commit 64 million bc you hope to pull off another trade ? It’s pretty clear that it was one or the other and reds are committed to Galvis at short. Winker in LF, senzel in C and castellanos in RF w Shogo as 4th outfielder and Aquino starts in Louisville. Great plan that doesn’t need tinkering with
titanic struggle
They didn’t sign Shogo to be a fourth outfielder…
reds2010
Agreed.
bbatardo
Not a Reds fan, but I like what they have done so far. Trading or not trading Senzel might come down to how much they believe in him. Currently his value is still good, but his numbers in 2019 were kind of underwhelming, so if he doesn’t improve his value will definitely drop.
Dbird777
I think he’ll bounce back strong. He was hitting .280 last year before our garbage hitting coach Turner Ward had him change his stance, So thankful that moron’s gone.
titanic struggle
Dbird… That’s a straight fact…
californiaangels
Angel’s should be on this , send them Simmons and 2 of their prospects not Adell or Marsh. simmons has 1 year left and has been too injured of late … and Senzell will be cheaper and able to take over short. yay or nay?
Dbird777
From our perspective, no. His defense is fine, but we’d be looking for more offense as well for a guy like Senzel.
Vizionaire
heck no!
angelsfan4life
Simmons to the Reds, makes sense for both the Angels and Reds. But the Angels would not be looking at Senzell. Fletcher could take over at short.
Cincyfan85
If the Reds aren’t landing Lindor or Story for Senzel, then I’d rather keep him. It’s a shame he can’t play SS. I think the Reds should focus more on trading Winker. Perhaps they could get a reliever for him. Without Winker, the Reds could field Senzel, Akiyama, Castellanos with Aquino or Ervin as a 4th or 5th OF with Aquino possibly playing in AAA for AB’s (and Jankowski as 5th OF). Having Senzel and Shogo in the OF together should be pretty good defensively.
Dbird777
Winker for a reliever??? I’m so glad you’re not the GM.
hiflew
Trading from a team strength to enhance a team weakness. How is that a bad quality for a GM? Are you happier with the current setup of signing a 3rd baseman to play 2nd and having 5 starting caliber outfielders for 3 spots?
Cincyfan85
I would trade Winker all day to help get a Ken Giles, especially given the glut of OF’s and lack of options.
Dbird777
We have Raisel, Amir, Mikey B, Bob Steve and Cody Reed coming back. We’re fine in the pen. Not to mention guys like Sims and Mahle in long relief.
Utter madness to trade an .850 OPS guy for a reliever in any case.
Cincyfan85
Winker is not good against lefties or defensively, and he has had some trouble staying healthy. He’s also not very fast. I like Winker, but I think you’re overvaluing him.
titanic struggle
That’s BS about Winker…he’s not horrible with the glove (they said the same about Jay Bruce, but he was solid as hell), and as for hitting lefties, he’s never given the chance!
hiflew
But he wouldn’t be the .850 OPS guy from last year. He would be the guy stuck on the bench behind three better OFs this year. It would be better to trade that .850 OPS guy for a needed bullpen guy vs. wasting him on the bench and not getting anything for him AND watching his trade value waste away.
its_happening
Galvis playing SS is a plus defensively. Whatever he gives you with the stick is an added bonus considering he’s hitting in the 7 or 8-hole on that Reds team. Not sure why anyone wants to push Suarez to SS when Galvis will do just fine. If this is to accommodate Senzel then maybe the Reds didn’t need to overpay for Moustakas to play 2B.
DTD_ATL
That wasn’t an overpay for Moose. He’s about as consistent as they come and his numbers will only go up in that ballpark
its_happening
At the expense of Senzel he is an overpay.
hiflew
It wasn’t an overpay if they needed him. But paying him in the expectation to change positions seems bad. Just look at the Rockies with Ian Desmond. These are real human beings and have flaws like real human beings. Learning a new position on the fly is going to affect his hitting negatively more than likely. Moose might not fall as hard as Desmond, but knowing that example is similar to this is a very bad thing.
Plus, Miller Park is a better hitter’s park than GABP, or at the very least they are equal. So how will he improve there?
agentx
Moustakas played 47 games at 2B last season without any obvious impact on his hitting, so I wouldn’t exactly call his taking over 2B for the Reds “Learning a new position on the fly.”
JoeBrady
Moose might not fall as hard as Desmond,
———————————————-
It’s a little bit different. By adding Moose, they added a big bat at the expense of some defense. And they had the option of leaving Senzel in CF.
Desmond was idiotic. It wasn’t so much that they wanted to sign Desmond to play 2nd, for example. They literally had no open positions except 1B. So they signed a SS to play 1st, while bidding against teams that wanted to sign him to play SS. It’s like signing a point guard when you already have a point guard.
hiflew
They signed him to play 1B, there was no thought of him being a SS. Besides he wasn’t a SS anyway. He had already moved to CF a couple years earlier.
The Rockies signed a SS/OF to play 1B. The Reds signed a 3B to play 2B. I maintain it is an apt comparison.
JoeBrady
In the three years prior to Desmond becoming a FA, he had an OPS+ of 96. At that level, you should be asking for a tryout, not getting $70M/5. Moreland’s OPS+ with the RS is 104, and he is getting $3M.
OTOH, Moose’ OPS+ over the past three seasons is 113, and that’s a good number. And going from 3rd to 2nd isn’t the defensive dropoff that going from SS/CF to 1B is.
washington_bonercats
I seem to remember the hype around the Reds last off-season too….
ekrog
I believe the hype was “maybe these guys won’t suck as much”. They didn’t.
Les Chesterfield
So reds chose to over pay to sign castellanos over trading for lindor. That reflects 2 things- buyers market continues in Trade market as no team can get a decent return on any player regardless of star status and that the Reds are WAY higher on Galvis than anyone is trying to give him credit for.
If reds need to upgrade short or catcher- they have til end of July to figure that out. Right now they’re in the drivers seat in the central
OilCanLloyd
Ken Giles could be had with the promise of a decent outfielder.
123321
There is a growing belief amongst NL GM’s that the DH will be instituted for NL as early as 2021. One important note people are discounting.
Reds FO is forwarding looking and will likely stay status quo this year. Castellanos can and will likely opt out so outfield depth is crucial to keep. Mouk/Votto can play 1B/DH in 2021 and Senzel or India can man 2B in the future so Winker/Ervin/Aquino/Shogo can play OF. Senzel is also a wild card imo for 2020 as a labrum is no joke.
I think they made some great moves getting ahead of the premium on bats in the next FA market due to the additional 15 DH spots especially the Mouk signing with no Opt outs
ekrog
Great post!
scvanguard1
One thing to consider – if he opts out, he’s walking away from guaranteed money.
Stingray16
I don’t see Castellanos getting a better deal next year unless he wins mvp. Keep in mind if he stays he is guaranteed 64 million for four years. Don’t see him beating that.
jfinchum22
Corey Seager would be a great addition, especially as a left-handed batter in the lineup. Obviously I’d love to have Lindor but I think at this point he’s out of reach. I liked Jose Iglesias but Galvis has showed some promise so we’ll see what the future holds at the SS position.
I’d rather trade for an immediate upgrade behind the dish than a SS at this point.
titanic struggle
I hear a Story could be about to unfold. Cost certainty for the next two years, and Arrenado isn’t likely to be dealt…
itsgood2btheking
Reds get
Seager
RHP Barnes
C Barnes
Reds trade
Senzel
Lodolo
Dodgers get
Betts
Lodolo
Price(+$50m = over market 46m for 3 yrs)
Dodgers trade
SS Seager
RHP Gray(#67 overall in mlb top 100)
C Barnes
Red Sox get
Senzel
RHP Gray
Red Sox trade
Betts
RHP Barnes
Price(save 46m over 3yrs)
Reds perspective would be they improve the 3 remaining holes on their roster. They’d drastically improve at SS and the bullpen and they also moderately improve at C.
The cost of all of that added present value would be 2 players with lots of potential future value in Senzel and Lodolo.They’re quality players to give up but it’s a win now type of move for a team in win now mode and If you consider 2 yrs of Seager’s expected production(8-10+ WAR) combined with 2 yrs of both Barnes‘ expected added value to the roster then it would set a pretty high bar for how much future value Senzel and Lodolo would need to produce to in order for it to really hurt the reds.
Red Sox perspective is they move 1 yr of Betts, 2 yrs of Barnes and save 46m on price the next 3 yrs and in return they get under the CBT tax and add 2 players with tons of projected future value. Senzel’s and Gray’s former and current prospect rankings speak to their potential value.
Dodgers perspective is pretty simple.
They get 1 big yr of Betts expected production, take a chance on price for 3 yrs at 15.3m per and they also recycle some projected future value back into the organizational depth by adding Lodolo.
The cost is they move 2 yrs of Seager, 2 yrs of Barnes, 6+ yrs of RHP Gray and they also add 3 risky yrs of Price at an above market rate.
kenly0
Imo, the Reds should move Suarez to SS, play Moose at 3B, and Senzel at 2B.
DockEllisDee
Suarez was a SS 40 lbs and several years ago. He could still hack it in a pinch but over the course of a full season no way
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Now that Cincy went out and got Castellanos
Cincy gets Lindor
Indians get Senzel India Santillan and Aquino (or Winker)
Indians put Senzel at 2B, get OF help in Aquino (or Winker), and pick up a young pitcher in Santillan.
Rose4192
Who plays SS for the tribe?
hockeyjohn
Cleveland signed Ceasar Hernandez for 2B. If you are going to talk trade, know about both teams and their needs.
thebluemeanie
“adding young talent” for a superstar talent? What a deal for the Tribe! He said with heavy sarcasm.
Sopro Found
That’s how rebuilds tend to work..
tomyo10
Indians aren’t rebuilding. They have enough controllable arms for years. They need some offensive weapons They have 9 OF’ers who are mostly 4th OF’ers.
its_happening
Betts for Senzel and Aquino.