It took all of 72 hours for another Astros-centric controversy to bubble up on social media, as allegations that Houston players wore electronic “buzzers” inside their shirts during the 2019 season surfaced Thursday. However, Major League Baseball issued a statement to ESPN’s Alden Gonzalez indicating that the just-completed investigation of the Houston organization included a probe into the potential of utilization of wearable devices during the 2019 season but found “no evidence” that could substantiate any such claim.
The origin point of the latest controversy includes an anonymous Twitter account that previously claimed to be Carlos Beltran’s niece, although the Beltran family has denied the legitimacy of that user’s identity (and there’s little reason to think that Beltran, a 2019 Yankees employee, would have knowledge of a new Astros scheme anyhow). The Twitter account has since been deactivated.
Right-hander Trevor Bauer threw some fuel on the flame when he tweeted that he’s heard similar permutations of the rumor “from multiple parties.” Video of Jose Altuve imploring his teammates not to tear his shirt off before jumping onto home plate following his ALCS Game 6 walk-off home run only further drove speculation. That escalating level of speculation prompted Altuve’s agent, Scott Boras, to issue the following statement on behalf of his client to the New York Post’s Joel Sherman:
When this came up today, Jose Altuve immediately contacted me and this is his statement: ‘I have never worn an electronic device in my performance as a major league player.’ … [Altuve] has never been involved in any information with the use of an electronic device that is triggered during the course of the game. Fans need to keep in mind that there are a lot of players who are in the spider web, but they are not the black widow just because they are a member of the team or the league.
The latest wave of claims comes without the benefit of the quality reporting that brought the initial scandal to light. The Athletic’s Evan Drellich and Ken Rosenthal broke the initial story open back in November with a report that included on-record confirmation from former Astros right-hander Mike Fiers. This latest controversy is more speculation-driven, although Bauer’s comments at least create some intrigue. Certainly, one would imagine that the emergence of new evidence could lead to further exploration from the league, but at this juncture there’s no indication this situation has even approached that point.
The emergence of the new “controversy” only underscores the importance of Fiers’ willingness to speak on-record. Many who are rightly angry with the Astros are quick to latch onto new allegations in hopes that additional punishment will be levied, but outside of Bauer’s comment, which stopped well short of an allegation, the “buzzer” controversy is predicated on unvetted, anonymous hearsay. That’s not to rule out the possibility of additional wrongdoing, of course, but a since-deleted Twitter account and subsequent conjecture is far from a smoking gun. Until someone follows Fiers’ lead and puts their name on something concrete — or at the very least until a credible reporter finds someone (or multiple persons) of import who is willing to speak on the condition of anonymity — there’s little sense in accepting wholly anonymous accusations as fact.
One Bite Hotdog
MLB found no evidence of wearable devices.
“We didn’t look into this during the investigation, therefore we were unable to find any evidence of such an assistive device”
VonPurpleHayes
Basically this. Haha.
Good Guys
I remember watching this live thinking how strange it was that he was more concerned with not having his jersey torn off than celebrating a walk off homerun that just sent his team to the world series. It hindsight, with all the information we have now, it seems very suspicious. Rewatch that video clip and tell me you don’t feel the same.
kodion
He was protecting the jersey so they could maximize the charity benefit when it was sold at auction!
aussiegiants53
Oh get off it! Haha please
Android Dawesome
That’s not even the reason Altuve gave. He said shortly after that it was because his wife got mad in the past. Im not saying they were wearing buzzers but you cant just make stuff up.
ThePentaverate
You can definitely just make stuff up when it comes to the “scandal”.
34679
>Rewatch that video clip and tell me you don’t feel the same.
I just did and it does seem pretty suspicious. It made me curious, so I had a look at Altuve’s stats and it appears he was average to below average until he turned into a monster in 2014. I had a quick look at Astros news and found that in 2014 Luhnow had a falling out with Bo Porter and replaced him with.. wait for it.. AJ Hinch.
Something tells me Altuve’s prime may be behind him.
The Human Toilet
Lol! Why would his wife care and why would his teammates listen to him anyhow?
arc89
MLB is going to protect their players. Just like they tried to protect the Astros for years. In 2018 a AL west team contacting MLB about the sign stealing and the signaling of Astros players after a weekend series in Houston. MLB told that team executives that they found nothing. So did they even investigate at all?
deweybelongsinthehall
Any number of reasons why his wife might care including some sort of personal tattoo that is not otherwise visible. I have no idea and am just responding too hate my father who apparently has his own issues to address. That said, I do believe the cat is out of the bag and just like the police get numerous bogus leads, they have to investigate them all in case one is real.
stros1fan
Whether you want to believe this or not is up to you. Altuve and his wife have a strong Christian faith. Earlier in the season after an Altuve walkoff hit the team tore off his jersey and she expressed disappointment that he would allow his bare upper body to be exposed to a large audience, including those watching on television. Again, you can choose to not believe this if you so desire.
Zerbs63
Yet if you look at his Instagram page he has 5 pics of him without his shirt on.
BobbyDynamite
When I first heard the postgame interview, I assumed his wife wanted to keep (intact) game jerseys from important games as family heirlooms.
These would in fact be cool things to pass down to kids and grandkids one day.
I guess it could have to do with personal modesty though…
delete
Christian men go shirtless all the time. It is not immodest. This is not a tenet of the Christian faith that you are talking about. It is a tenet of hiding electronics.
stros1fan
Those are shirts at the lake, tropical locations, etc. There was only 1 time he was without his shirt celebrating an Astros win.
stros1fan
As I said you can believe it or not just like you’re choosing to believe a completely unfounded and bogus rumor about hidden electronics.
BlueSkyLA
MLB isn’t going to protect players, the MLBPA does that. MLB protects the owners and their financial interests. This is why Jim Crane escaped any significant sanction and is going to continue to own the Astros.
arc89
Would this put a black eye on baseball for the causal fan? YES Would MLB see fans leave knowing that watch they watch is cheating? YES. That is why it took so long for this to come out. Players has been saying this for a few years after noticing the sign stealing. Look how long it took them to ban steroids. They loved the bash brothers and bonds/McGwire home runs until a up roar by old MLB players. MLB is looking out for themselves above anything. Altuve cheated to get to the world series and over turning a world series win would hurt baseball in so many ways. So yes MLB is looking the other way until they must do something.
wordonthestreet
Haha good investigation by Zerbs!
Travis M. Nelson
As though Altuve’s wife is the one who takes care of his uniforms?? Please.
CursedRangers
There are roughly 15 billion nipples in this world, and God made all of them. They’re really not that special of a body part – especially on a man
uncle mike
Actually…Who knows what to believe!!! I strongly think this goes a lot deeper than what we’ve already seen. If 2 mlb teams were participating in stealing signs in the Astro’s manner, I’d suspect there all doing something along that line.
To me——If these rumors of players wearing devices so they could be tipped off on each pitch——This is a far more worse flagrant crime than banging on a wall or a can or whistling!!!! This could be a life time ban type of punishment for any player who used it or any player or person sending the signals. Because it’s electronic devices, It shouldn’t matter if it were Front Office Administrators, managers, players, Owners or Batboys, this type of electronic cheating must be wiped out!!!!!
kam3hameha
stros1fan Exactly… Also, where was this “device” whenever they ripped off his jersey that night? Oh yeah, there wasn’t one!
Plus, the Astros knew they were cheating in 2017. They all knew and have cooperated fully with MLB. So if they all knew, why would Altuve have to ask them not to tear off his jersey?! They would already know not to. This is such a ridiculous claim that was started by a fake Twitter account that is now deactivated. And why would they need the trash cans if they had an electronic device to relay the signs?!
I get that everyone wants us to be punished even further, but MLB has finished their investigation. Let’s just move on.
The_M4N
Well, if so, there goes that defense…
The_M4N
Yes, we understand. The TrAshstros beating a trash can were also bogus rumors, until they weren’t… Just deal with it. Your team is a cheat!
EatCrow
Charity was on his mind after blasting a walk off home run that put the team in the world series 10 seconds prior. Yep. That’s it.
Rallyshirt
@blueskyLA The MLBPA should protect the players affected by this. Protecting the guilty parties divides the very definition of Union in a case like this.
melkor77
Such a strong Christian he actively participated in a cheating scheme. Good grief.
great_gumbino
Get off of it Astros fan. They cheated. Will always be known as such.
itsgonnahappen
I have nipples Greg…
mfm420
strong christian faith… but not strong enough to do the right thing and report cheaters the second he knew about it (funny, doesn’t his book have something about not lying? pretty sure it’s on a list. you know, the one people like him want crammed everywhere in government, despite not actually wanting to follow it).
just more proof that you spell hypocrite c-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n
BlueSkyLA
@rallyshirt I’m not saying whether the MLBPA should or should not protect the players in this case, only that protecting the players’ interests is their role in baseball generally. MLB’s role in baseball is in protecting the financial interests of the owners.
neurogame
But that “strong Christian faith” wasn’t strong enough to deter him from cheating. And we’re all supposed to look the other way for him when the possible use of a buzzing device is brought to light?
One Bite Hotdog
Correct me if I wrong, but did t Jesus go shirtless of the day of his doom?
One Bite Hotdog
“Don’t rip my Jersey off. I’m saving it for charity and not a no one knows how to sew on missing buttons”
melkor77
Maybe he wasn’t ‘telling’ them not to rip it off, maybe he was ‘reminding’ them?
fluffernutter
In this instance protecting the players may be the same as protecting the owners. If it came out that numerous players cheated beyond what’s already been established & players got suspended then it would certainly hurt the Astros & Jim Crane. Or if this type of cheating is more widespread throughout the league & that information became public then it could hurt all owners via lower attendance, etc.
Stealing Signs
People of ” strong Christian faith” follow the doctrine which includes ‘Thou shalt not steal” & that includes signs. .
The Houston Asterisks…nothin’ but cheaters & wife beaters.
SheltonMatthews
Nice
bush1
Yeah but if that experience, getting his shirt previously ripped off was so offensive to his wife why would he then post it to Instagram? Makes zero sense… Obviously everyone can believe what they want. But this is HIGHLY suspicious at minimum regardless of what team you cheer for.
Rudy Zolteck
Oh man the big-brain anti-religion guy has entered the chat lol
You_Know_My_Name
You’re trying to be ignorant at this point.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol because no player has ever broken out before and everyone stays the same in their career. If that’s your level of evidence then we got 29 more investigations to get on.
Seams2me
That’s BS!
Seams2me
Imagine that!
slider32
What about the Altuve video, if this were to come out all the players on the Astros and Sox would be eliminated from getting into the HOF. This investigation is a complete cover up. Just wait to see how easy they let the Sox off. Beltran was lying to get into the HOF, Altuve lied for the same reason.. The Mets and the Sox front office are lying as we speak.
kevnames42
What are the Mets possibly lying about lol the only connection they have in this was that they hired Beltran
MoRivera 1999
Well, I guess they lied about the decision to part ways being “mutual.” Not that that in particular is a big deal.
TheMick7
Mo, I see this a bit differently because it’s another “acceptable” lie. Why not just ball-up and say they fired a cheater?
Vizionaire
his salary.
Prospectnvstr
The “ORIGINAL ” report re wearable technology was in a segment on MLB Network giving possible solutions to catchers giving signs to the pitcher. This reminds me of the “human experiment ” re 1 per says something to another and they repeat it to someone else. By the time it goes through 15 people, it’s a completely different story.
Les Chesterfield
Well said Joel! MLB been managing damage control since late 90s. Only reason we know any of what’s going on is bc there’s no way for them to cover it up
Rudy Zolteck
This isn’t a brand new accusation. It was already in the news soon after the Fiers confession. Sherman or one of those writers tweeted about it at the time. So this would be part of that investigation. Especially because if the MLB didn’t find cameras then how would they get signs for the buzzer in the first place?
MoRivera 1999
If the use of buzzers is not brand new accusation, how come nobody on MLBTR, writers or commenters, heard of it before now. Hmmm?
Rudy Zolteck
I already told you it was in the news in late November. I’m not sure how you can be so dissociated from reality that you don’t plug what I told you into google. In fact you could get even more creative and go to the comments on a January 7 post on this site about Astros punishment being expected in the next couple weeks (before the Altuve witch hunt) and see guys commenting on it. This site is not the ultimate compilation of MLB rumors even per what the writer says; in reality it’s a balancing act between rumor and news. The reason why it got the report this time around is because MLB actually issued its own statement about.
I seriously can’t believe how detached you are that we had to spoonfeed this to you dude. Even after I pointed specifically to a yahoo article from November that mentions Passan and the buzzing allegations. Unreal. And then you still manage to act smug about it. Your confidence is astounding and I envy that.
stros1fan
If you haven’t heard the rumors then that’s on you. Jomboy mentioned this rumor back in November.
moody
Lol, Sounds like the 911 report. “we found no evidence of explosives”
“did you test for explosives?”
“no, we found no reason to test for explosives”. How do people simply accept this bull?
TommySnodgrass
I agree with Joel.
No player is being individually punished on any level because Major League Baseball is just avoiding any possible conflict with the MLBPA before the new collective bargaining agreement in 2021.
MLB needs to fess up and tell their fanbase the truth; the longer they hold out, the uglier it will be.
clubber_lang84
This is crazy. A fake troll account tweets something and now it’s national news. Man we have set a new precedent.
jdgoat
And now Mike Trout is going to have rumours swirling around him as well. Yesterday was crazy but it sucked.
macstruts
Why would Trout have rumors swirling around him?
The Astros relayed the signs somehow, if anyone thinks banging on a trash can or whistling was the primary source of communication for such an elaborate scheme, they are nuts.
As far as how Altuve reacted, of course is suspicious. Suspicions are proof. His not wanting his shirt ripped off is evidence, not proof. It’s suspicious.
darmstrong92
I saw it circling around other message boards yesterday that Trout supposedly juices or takes some form of PEDs. Total BS, the man is just the goat, but maybe that’s what he’s referring to. I have no idea where the rumors originated though.
laswagn
Just a couple months ago, we thought this sort of cheating was impossible. Imagine what you’ll find out tomorrow!
yamsi1912
If it’s on the internet it must be true.
Vizionaire
altuve kept touching his right shoulder with his head. guess volume was a little low.
imindless
Trout thing is fake a 3rd basemen coach for mariners son said some things that trout takes hgh for a thyroid problem and found a loop hole and everyone knows about but league doesnt want people to know. Whats funny is that he came out and said he made it up. Go check his profile @davidbrosius on instagram, apologized for lying about trout lol
wordonthestreet
Explain how this effects Mike Trout please
BlueSkyLA
I seem to remember when the first article on this came out that Fiers was called a liar and worse by a lot of posters here. I don’t see anybody now admitting they were wrong to do that. The question then and now is whether the allegations are true, not how we found out about them.
wordonthestreet
But Clubber MLB already said they had looked into it so it has nothing to do with a tweet. Plus Trevor Bauer confirmed players have heard the rumors about it.
Then you look at the video and him not wanting his shirt ripped off and I can see why people have doubts about Altuve’s denials.
mazzith
In all fairness the account has been reliable for info on Beltran on him getting the job then getting fired before it came out. It’s most likely a burner account of a player or someone close to Beltran. Some said it was beltrans burner as he wants the other players to go down since they got off Scott free and he got fired from his job. Who knows though.
baseballpun
Why would they have “investigated” the use of electronic devices in the first place unless there was already some evidence of their use? Did Manfred just come up with the idea all on his own that maybe the Astros were using some kind of wearable buzzer, and then investigated it on a hunch?
Steve Adams
If Bauer has heard rumors of this, then others the league interviewed surely have as well. If even one person mentioned it in an interview, it’d send the league down that path of trying to substantiate it as well. That the league would already have looked into this doesn’t strike me as implausible at all.
mike156
Agreed. This is exactly how questionable material gets an independent life of its own. Bizarrely, we seem to give the same credence to an unsourced tweet or comment as to hard reporting based on multiple sources. I don’t see any reason for MLB to, without prompting, announce they haven’t found evidence when they could have just said “ongoing investigation”. It’s probably true that we will never learn everything, But I doubt Manfred would permit an knowingly-false public statement.
pobbybortis
Because a major sports commissioner has never misled the fans to sweep something under the rug… /s
This whole thing reeks of cover-up by MLB. Jomboy (take his credibility as you will) has stated that he’s heard the wearables rumor from a number of sources in the MLB. However, if the wearables are real, it would be the first time a current player would need to be reprimanded. Dealing with MLBPA would probably make this really hard to do, so the MLB decided it’s better to try and move on from this.
I know it sounds like a conspiracy, but it just sounds like there’s more to this, and MLB doesn’t want to push farther and possible “tarnish the game.” I think an independent investigation should take place, and let’s see what comes from that. That’s not an unreasonable request from a fan.
baseballpun
Yeah, baseball has a bad history with transparency. The report substantiated what was in The Athletic’s reporting and didn’t go beyond that. Why would anyone assume that the league conducted a comprehensive review of the Astros, not to mention the league as a whole, to weed out any and all such cheating? The investigation was a PR move reacting to a piece of journalism, not a thorough vetting of the sport.
laswagn
The niece stated she has pics and video. We’ll have to wait and see I guess.
slider32
Manfred was hired by the owners, no way he is letting this out., nothing good can come out of it.
tigersfan1320
All jomboy is is just a youtuber. To my knowledge he has no sorts of ties with the MLB other than the information that every other fan like you and I hear on a day to day basis.
melkor77
Why would the Astros have stopped though? They cheated in ‘17, won the series and got away with it. So I’m supposed to believe that in ‘18 and ‘19 they were like okay, we got our title, now let’s try to do it the right way? Or is it more likely the cheating scheme gets more advanced?
I can’t PROVE anything, obviously, but with all the new s..t coming to light (hehe) I’m convinced Altuve knew a slider was coming.
canocorn
Slider;
Yes, the truth is not good. Nothing good could possibly come from honesty. But don’t take my word for it, just ask Donnie.
World_Series_2020
If being on Reddit conspiracy threads qualifies as having ties to the MLB, then Jomboy is your guy. And apparently that’s enough to get you a featured article on The Athletic, too.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol that was a hanger and Aroldis got blasted. Altuve was one of the hottest hitters in baseball for the second half. He was likely sitting on slider because Reddick whiffed on three of them and Springer had walked on badly placed fastballs. Chapman had a problem with that all series. He threw his slider more than any other year in 2019, 30% of the time, and 40% on two strikes. So no reason to doubt Altuve knew a slider was coming based on regular baseball intuition.
rct
How does Jomboy have any less credibility than any other baseball reporter? I’d argue that he’s more honest because he doesn’t have the prospect of losing team access hanging over his head. All he does is report on baseball, typically with video evidence, and can sometimes do it in a different way because he’s not tied to baseball or any publication.
Rudy Zolteck
He’s incredibly “tied” to the Yankees, are you a New Yorker or something? His video on the Altuve walkoff was just a minute of silence. It’s clear where his allegiance is. And do people refuse to watch him because of it? Yeah probably. But most people in baseball are going to have biases. It doesn’t make all his content bad. But you have to look at skeptically like everything else.
Netflix&RichHill
Except that he routinely talks to big leaguers and attends the winter meetings with a media pass
neurogame
It was reported that the players thought the trash can banging wasn’t all that helpful and more distracting than anything, so they stopped.
What’s not reported is that the players think baseball fans are dumb and will believe that.
melkor77
‘Hot’ because he was cheating?
CoachBlake
Heck, I knew a slider was coming..
arc89
Steve MLB is going to protect their players. Just like they tried to protect the Astros for years. In 2018 a AL west team contacting MLB about the sign stealing and the signaling of Astros players after a weekend series in Houston. MLB told that team executives that they found nothing. So did they even investigate at all?
Scrap1ron
True, but Bauer certainly likes to tweet smack talk considering his past confrontations with Alex Bregman. Everyone has an agenda, so how does one separate the wheat from the chaff?
It’s all fun and games until someone actually gets hurt, whether it’s unintentional or not.
BlueSkyLA
A reminder, Mike Fiers kept his knowledge of the cheating under his cap for a couple of years, which led a lot of people to cynically question his motives for talking about it now. I have no idea whether these latest allegations should be taken seriously only that it is entirely plausible that if it happened, it wouldn’t be at all surprising for people with direct knowledge to remain silent for as long as possible. And how do we know that? Because that’s exactly what just happened.
BobbyDynamite
that’s not quite accurate. Astros pitcher Collin McHugh’s wife, Ashley, has said that Fiers has been telling his ‘trashcan banging – sign stealing’ story to anyone who would listen for the past two years.
The reason Drellich and Rosenthal suddenly decided to run the story is because Astros staffer Brandon Taubman pushed back at some radical feminist reporters who insisted Roberto Osuna is a domestic abuser in spite of the fact Toronto prosecutors plainly said there was insufficient evidence to bring him to trial, much less convict him, on such charges.
Drellich/Rosenthal were merely using Fiers’ sign stealing allegation at an opportune time to help their colleague advance an far-left, anti-male agenda that has nothing to do with baseball.
MoRivera 1999
“radical feminist reporters” — Pfffttt!!!
“far-left, anti-male agenda” — bwahahaha!!!
Can’t make this stuff up.
BlueSkyLA
You don’t need to make it up. These days somebody is always happy to do it for you. I was actually interested in the possibility that I’d missed some significant aspect of this story, until I got to the second paragraph and the crackpot culture war theory.
danielking
I don’t think they investigated wearables specifically or based on specific allegations. I think in pouring through 3 seasons worth of communications to explore the extent of the Fiers allegations, they didn’t find evidence of other methods.
baseballpun
Agreed.
stros1fan
There were several unsubstantiated rumors the Astros used buzzers for pitch tipping. Jomboy said it numerous times right after The Athletic story was released and reiterated it again when these bogus rumors started circulating yesterday.
Rudy Zolteck
This was already brought up a couple months back soon after the Fiers confession. It’s not completely new.
MoRivera 1999
If the use of buzzers is not completely new, why did no one in the MLBTR community, commenters or staff, hear of it before? Hmmmm?
World_Series_2020
On top of MLB not finding any evidence of these claims, that same “source” stated that Gleyber Torres wore an electronic device on his leg and that the Yankees have a camera system they use as well. So if we’re going to put this BS on such a reputable website such as MLB Trade Rumors, let’s not just pick and choose pieces of it.
karldanger
Sounds like you just made that up but okay
jjd002
He’s not making it up. They did mention Torres was wearing something on his leg. Read about this whole stupid thing yesterday on yahoo. Probably still up
World_Series_2020
Just proving my point about the dangers of picking and choosing information to post. Tribe fan btw.
jdgoat
I could be mistaken but I’m pretty sure the Torres tweet was created by Jared Carrabis…
World_Series_2020
Really? And I thought the Altuve and Bregman tweet was created by Beltran’s niece…how’d that one turn out? We all know the Astros cheated, and their penalty came up short, but knowledgeable baseball fans and professional writers falling for clearly bogus claims from twitter trolls is pretty sad.
stros1fan
It was created by Beltran’s “niece”. The same “source” that accused Bregman and Altuve of wearing electronic devices.
melkor77
Also the same ‘source’ that had Beltran hired by the Mets days before it was reported, and had him stepping down the day before it happened.
Rudy Zolteck
Those aren’t bombshell claims though. Beltrán to the Mets was already widely speculated and the most likely scenario. His getting fired was also likely after what we saw with Cora. That account also said Rendon would go to the Mets, what about all the wrong claims?
whynot 2
Sounds like an angry Astro fan
Ketch
To be fair, this site does have the word “rumors” i the domain. So if someone starts a “rumor” that DJ LaMahieu starts off each season by throwing pumpkins at senior citizens as part of his ritual, this is the site for it. Ok maybe not. Also, that LeMahieu thing is not a rumor; it’s a lie made for hypothetical purposes.
BravesCanada
What if he was trading signed memorabilia for the pumpkins?
yogineely
Dj lamahieu’s nieces twitter just said he in fact does this!
gmenfan
DJ’s dog walker’s cousin just tweeted that hes tired of being told to keep quiet about this and its actually Aaron Judge who throws rotten tomatoes at school children.
delete
Surely you see the key difference which resulted in MLBTR covering it. Altuve made a statement. He broke the absolute silence of the Astros players to strangely address an internet rumor… Weird… And actually very newsworthy. If Gleyber had done that I’d want it covered.
Steve Adams
We decided to post on this only when Major League Baseball (and, to a lesser extent, Scott Boras/Jose Altuve) felt the need to issue statements.
Prior to that point, there was no intention of shining a further light on an anonymous Twitter account that has since been deleted.
And, in writing this, I went out of my way to indicate that said Twitter account shouldn’t be treated as any source of legitimate information.
This isn’t an instance of “picking and choosing,” and if Rob Manfred or someone in his office wants to issue a comment(s) on the Gleyber/Yankees things, we will of course acknowledge that as well.
World_Series_2020
Valid reasoning and I appreciate your response. I apologize for my frustration, it feels like the sport is falling apart.
wordonthestreet
World Series we all are frustrated so I am sure most on her feel your pain so to speak and share in the feeling of how it reflects on the integrity of the sport that everyone on here loves.
Sad situation for sure. What a shame.
ThePentaverate
This is still a “rumor” site right? Just own it. It’s OK. You don’t need to apologize for throwing more fuel on this dumpster fire. It’s already out of control.
Steve Adams
It’s a site that has “rumors” in its name, but it’s not as though we give credence to every rumor that comes across Twitter.
This “rumor” isn’t based on anything partcularly credible and probably would’ve gone ignored — as many others do — but comments being issued from prominent figures in the sport are notable.
slider32
Check out Altuve crossing home plate in the playoffs after hitting a homer off Chapman, he says, I’m wearing a piece and grabs his shirt while shaking his other finger and head. That is some proof.
stros1fan
As an Astros fan I completely agree you should’ve addressed it. You simply gave the facts as you know them to be. Manfred and Altuve both responded to the rumor so it merited being discussed here.
Steve Adams
There’s a video of him mouthing something, which could very well be “No la camisa” — “not the shirt” in Spanish.
Take a look with an objective set of eyes and tell me, concretely, that you know 100% he’s saying “I got a piece on.”
Also — why did Carlos Correa’s shirt get ripped off in Game 2? Only Altuve and Bregman wore buzzers? Why did he need to remind the team of that?
The willingness to believe so much of the content that’s been circulated on Twitter in irresponsible fashion and/or by those simply hoping for viral RTs is amazing.
I’m not defending the Astros. I thought they deserved every bit of Monday’s punishment, if not more, and think the trash-can scheme is reprehensible. But there’s next to nothing that points to these buzzer rumors being worthy of merit.
wordonthestreet
Exactly. Trevor Bauer adding fuel is newsworthy. MLB statement regarding that they looked into the buzzer thing is news.
wordonthestreet
Slider since this is not a court I agree with you!
MLB could not prove it but it does not mean it did not happen.
To me it sure looks like circumstantial evidence that under the circumstances sure seems to support the notion that the rumor can be true.
In my opinion he did it. It is just my opinion but it is from the circumstantial evidence
Badacidtrip69
Steve – thoughts on Bauer’s affirmation? He just wants attention and RTs as well? Trying to understand that logic. And why Altuve had his shirt ripped off numerous times in 2017 regular season & in seasons since. He also has his shirt off on multiple instagram posts with hundreds of thousands of likes, but that’s not considered embarrassing? His wife is ok with his shirt off if it’s done on the internet (which is actually more eyes/exposure)? He’s so embarrassed in the moment he has to run into dugout and under into the locker hallway to change into his AL Champs t shirt? Too weird. Too many questions to not look into this. And how can you look into already to “find nothing” if the accusations were never made public before yesterday? “Next to nothing” seems irresponsible & lazy if Bauer has any credibility whatsoever in your view, especially on the heels of the trash can scandal.
melkor77
Next to NOTHING??? Then why then, after he hits that bomb of Chapman and the celebration moves towards the mound, he stops celebrating with his team (the only player to do so), he walks past the interviewer, into the dugout, down the tunnel, then re-emerges with the championship tee on… when asked about why he didn’t want his shirt ripped off, he nervously asked the question to be repeated, then offered 2 different excuses in mere moments – go watch that. Nothing, sure.
canocorn
A lack of evidence doesn’t mean a lack of guilt. Just because one gets away with something doesn’t make them innocent.
If there was cheating, whether individually or system wide, it will hopefully come out in time.
Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.
MrAngelFan
@slider32 For me, I need more proof than a guy didnt want his shirt ripped off. I would need to believe if he was wearing a device, he would put additional clothing to conceal such a device or put it on his lower body. I would assume others were outfitted with the same device and he would not need to explain to not rip shirt. They do see each other in the locker room. I do not buy into all the conspiracy theories. I do not believe the Astros are only good because they cheat. If someone does come forward and produces some additional evidence then I understand, but to me it is just speculation at this point. Even if they do find something, what is MLB going to do? Suspend Hinch more?. They already decided to not punish the players that cheated.
MLB needs to remove all electronic equipment moving forward. No video equipment to review during the game. That way it does not lend itself to such speculation.
Rallyshirt
Altuve’s reference to “a black widow” probably shouldn’t go ignored either.
Rudy Zolteck
Bauer is jumping on this because his pitching accusations went nowhere. He is acting like he called all this from the beginning when he was accusing them of something unrelated.
NatsFan15
I agree that it should be addressed here. After the statements by MLB and Altuve, this site would have lost credibility by not addressing it.
I also agree on not discussing every internet rumor. There’s a line to walk there, and I think you did well on this one.
wordonthestreet
Steve when I read your article it appeared to me that you in fact were very careful to point out the twitter account was not the reason for your article and Beltrans family denied the relationship and Beltran was not on the team during the Altuve thing. So I think you did a nice job on the article as it was not based on fueling rumors just from some tweet.
MLB network has reported on it and even this morning on hot stove reported including MLB saying the found no evidence of it but obviously MLB indicated they were aware of it so it is legitimate news and your reported it properly.
VonPurpleHayes
Doesn’t matter in the sense that people are going to believe the wearable device rumors, and they have every right to. It’s going to be extremely hard for the Astros and those associated with the scandal to gain the public’s trust back. Even if they fairly win the 2020 World Series people will have doubts.
NatsFan15
My thoughts exactly. Astros have lost all credibility and will not get any benefit of the doubt. And that’s completely on them.
floridapinstripes
If you believe this buzzfeed. Who can believe anything the Astros do after their #Trashcanathon.
VonPurpleHayes
Exactly. Ludicrous rumors becoming believable are par for the course when you get caught cheating like this. Fair or not, the Astros did this to themselves.
Nook
Okay, so does that apply to the Red Sox as well? The Yankees? The Red Sox and Yankees were both caught using electronic means to cheat. They prompted a letter from the league office to knock it off. Supposedly everyone knew the Astros were using video to steal signs and Hinch and Cora were the ring leaders. Yet the Red Sox hired Cora, were caught cheating and won the World Series. So should we believe every negative indication against the Red Sox? What about every one of the teams Logan Morrison said he knew were cheating including the Dodgers and Yankees and Red Sox? Multiple writers have said sign stealing causing electronic means has been prevalent for the Yankees and Red Sox since 2015.
VonPurpleHayes
To some extent yes, but so far no team has been investigated as much as the Astros. And things look pretty bad for them. Red Sox are certainly going to feel some of this particularly because of Cora, but there’s been no hard evidence against the Yankees. They got in trouble for illegal use of bullpen phones which is very different than what the Astros did. We don’t really know the extent of what the Red Sox did yet.
NatsFan15
Astros credibility is zero because of the report and investigation.
I’d expect Red Sox to get there if MLB releases that investigation. (Wouldn’t be surprised if the release is limited since Cora is fired.)
And yes, to a certain degree, all MLB teams will be viewed with skepticism, especially the teams you mention who either have specific rumors, specific warnings from MLB, or players who were formerly involved with the Astros.
MLB as a whole has lost credibility. Their denials are going to be believed less and less. And the Astros, they’ve already proven they are an unreliable source. And “known unreliable source” is one rung below “internet rumor” on the trust scale.
MoRivera 1999
@Nook
The Yankees were not “caught using electronic means to cheat.” A week after the Red Sox were caught stealing signs, they filed a complaint against the NYY, claiming they used the YES Network cameras to cheat. The Commissioner’s office investigated and found the claim had “no merit,” citing “insufficient evidence.” The NYY were fined for having a phone (no camera), and were not fined for cheating. The Red Sox were fined for cheating.
The Logan Morrison claims, as yet, are associated with NO EVIDENCE, as with the Red Sox claims involving the YES Network: NO EVIDENCE. Oops.
Rudy Zolteck
Mike Fiers had “no evidence” until the MLB properly looked into it. Just like people accusing this situation of not receiving the investigation it deserves. This complaint goes both ways after we saw Aaron Judge looking at a tablet/paper on TV, and after the Athletic already said the Yankees were under suspicion. Obviously they want to bury this issue. This is a problem in the MLB even as far back as the 1980 Phillies/Royals WS when they spotted a camera in center. Obviously the commissioner, a New Yorker, doesn’t want more of a PR hit. It just sucks that the image of the game comes at the expense of justice. It is like when certain players took heat for juice so the MLB could bring a quick end to it. That is why you wouldn’t necessarily see outrage on, idk, Jeff Bagwell, and guys like Bonds get absolutely skewered.
Greg M
“there are a lot of players who are in the spider web, but they are not the black widow just because they are a member of the team or the league.”
Just shut up Boras. Your client either cheated or knew about the cheating and didn’t do a thing about it. Be thankful that he’s getting off the hook and shut up, respectfully.
BravesCanada
I’m sure his pitcher clients are pleased he represents Altuve
ArianaGrandSlam
I’m not fully convinced of their innocence after watching the clip of Altuve rushing into the clubhouse when everybody else is staying on the field celebrating the walk-off home run by the very guy. He clearly needed to do “something” behind the camera before wearing the champion shirt like everybody else.
toycannon
And just what is that wire for that is visible on Josh Reddick’s partly bare chest?
jjd002
The piece of confetti?
VegasSDfan
Was it, did you caress his chest to check it?
Or was it tape, holding a wire to an electronic device.
jjd002
Literally a few moments later, when the angle changes, it is clear as day.
ThePentaverate
I caressed his chest. It was tape holding the wire to the piece of confetti. Cheater!
VegasSDfan
Lol
Steve Adams
That is very, very clearly a piece of confetti. Look at the huge flakes of it falling during the celebration. It’s the same color, shape, size.
I fully admit that the Altuve shirt thing is bizarre and inexplicable. The Reddick thing is people running wild with something that is empirically defensible.
BravesCanada
Maybe they used similar style tape so you’d think that!
baseballpun
There’s also video of him taking the confetti off during an interview in the clubhouse.
Strike Four
That’s confetti, but that weird hoop necklace thing still hasn’t been explained, but even still, why would Atluve be so careful about not ripping off his jersey (to expose whatever was underneath) and Reddick would be so careless not to? Makes no sense, although I do believe he was cheating for sure, that’s why his wife and him are being so vocal and defensive on twitter about it.
When you’ve already been exposed as a cheating team, what makes you believe they would they only have ONE method of it?
findingnimmo
It’s not a wire. Idk what the white thing is. Maybe confetti but what u think is a wire is a chain necklace. It goes around the other side of the neck too. Altuve is something else to debate though.
jdgoat
Josh Reddick? You’re going to need to take a long hard look at that picture again dude. That is clearly confetti and his chain.
User 2997803866
Not a wire. That’s already been debunked. It’s clearly the chain, necklace, whatever you want to call it holding his dog tags. It’s super obvious in other pictures.
People take one picture out of context, don’t confirm their suspicion and then blow up the internet.
All I’ve got to say is confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.
danielking
The “wire” on Reddick is a long gold chain… The “tape” over it is confetti
No one thinks Reddick actually had help hitting in 2019.
And Altuve wanted to save his jersey because of the significance. The team always ripped his jerseys up during celebrations he catalyzed ~ it was a meme
VegasSDfan
Or is it a wire made to look like a chain!
How can you really tell for sure. Just like when we landed on the moon rofl
VonPurpleHayes
No. If that were true he would’ve said that. He told reporters it was because he didn’t want his wife getting mad at him. If it were about the jersey he would have just said so. Maybe he was pancake nipples, I don’t know, but fair or not the general public has a right to doubt everything the Astros say or do, and this won’t go away for years.
larry48
Altuve never said he did not cheat, just that he didn’t wear any electronic device. He was involved in another way.
IronBallsMcGinty
He also said he never did as a “major leaguer”. What’s that about?
MoRivera 1999
Altuve’s reputation is shot. Dude will be ostracized in every park in the AL. His MVP will be ridiculed. No HOF for him.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol you clearly just hate the Astros dude, go outside and get some fresh air.
MoRivera 1999
Altuve’s already being ostracized. His MVP is already being ridiculed. The season hasn’t even started. It’s no long shot to imagine his HOF candidacy will be rejected on the grounds of cheating.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol completely ignore that he was an amazing hitter before 2017, can you be any more of a Yankees stereotype? How are you going to brush off hitting better on the road in 2017 then? enlighten us.
MoRivera 1999
He cheated. He benefited from cheating. He did nothing to stop cheating. He should be suspended and fined and barred from the HOF. You heard of A-FRAUD? Well this is A(ltuve)-FRAUD2.
Rudy Zolteck
I see you took the “completely ignore the question” route. Same as McDonald’s does with their food. Simple, but effective. I give it like an 8 out of 10. Still a terrible argument but alright.
VegasSDfan
I agree, there is still more to come. Altuve was hiding something, get ready for more investigations to come.
gmenfan
When a guy has got to go, he’s GOT to GO !
AndyMeyer
gmenfan – comment of the day by far!
nymetsking
what, was he lactating?
NatsFan15
While the Astros have lost all credibility….
People who are banging on about the confetti and necklace as a wearable device are making the accusations less credible.
DarkSide830
wouldve been too obvious otherwise i think.
Perksy
Agreed. Somethings not right there.
DarkSide830
i mean im sure the league was just covering all its bases, but it still seems a bit farfetched.
Rudy Zolteck
This was already a headline soon after the Fiers confession. There’s no cover-up at play; the league is reiterating what it already found. It’s not something that happened in the last couple days.
Good Guys
MLB should implement a rule change for the 2020 season that Astros hitters aren’t allowed to take first base after a hit by pitch. It should just be counted as a ball and play resumed.
BobbyDynamite
Clevinger and any other idiot pitchers who plan on going out and beaning Astros hitters in 2020 better ask their team’s top 3 batters if they sign off on this scheme. Astros pitchers will defend their own if needed.
VonPurpleHayes
They’re going to have to. This is a mess. Fair or not Astros are going to have tough time, especially with hostile crowds during away games. Certain pitchers will almost certainly take matters into their own hands.
cubsfanbudman1908
Either way, old school baseball is going to come back this year and I’m excited to have the players police the game again.
jdgoat
Mike Clevinger being the voice of integrity in baseball is absolutely comical. He’s such a hypocrite.
Strike Four
Explain.
MoRivera 1999
Please elaborate.
ateam043
I disagree. It should be counted as a strike.
VegasSDfan
Hit by pitch 3 times, you’re out!!!
ateam043
See, Dodger & Padres can finally agree on something.
On this and that Petco Park is one of the best MLB parks there is.
VegasSDfan
Yes and that San Diego is a much nicer city!
Moneyballer
The only way petco park is one of the best parks in baseball would be if they allowed pets in for each game thus justifying the park’s name!
User 2997803866
Pitchers better make sure their own teams are clear before they start this mess.
BravesCanada
The count is 0-2, we can hit him up to 3 times still!
Strike Four
MLB should have just made all Astros and Red Sox 40-man rosters free agents, force the owners to buy out all contracts, and neither team is allowed to sign any of them back. Salt the earth, make them start over and force them to rebuild. They can play their AAA teams and sign whoevers still on the market, imo that is the correct punishment, and its along the same lines as the punishment the Braves got.
NatsFan15
Agree here from the team perspective.
For the players’ standpoint, I don’t want the cheaters getting a buyout and playing elsewhere!!
Also, they should not have been allowed to fire their GM and manager. They should have had to find some one-year bum to fill in….. instead, they’re now gonna sign the best available people – hardly a punishment for the team at all. Manager and GM should have been suspended in 2020 and MLB should have made Astros keep them in their roles for 2021.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol yeah man hit everyone you don’t like and risk brain damage or broken bones because they may have stolen a few signs two years ago. You sound perfectly level-headed.
DarkSide830
Trevor Bauer is one of the biggest rats in pro sports. one year wonder who made out like a bandit this year and cant touch anything without harming himself. the man always has to have a say in everything, even when he has no licence to. id hate to see him playing for my team, but fear it may happen.
karldanger
He’s very vocal but how does that make him a rat exactly?
DarkSide830
because everytime there is any sort of issue in baseball he has to chime in on it even if he is far from an expert on the subject. he just wants to be popular, and all he needed was one season of not being mediocre to get headlines for his silly tweets.
riffraff
So only experts can express opinions on things? That is really going to reduce the comments around here.
Just_a_thought
This is a lot of talk from someone who has not provided a licence to speak nor listed his expert qualifications on this subject
stevecohenMVP
hes not a rat, you goon. He wants to shed light on what is happening. Dark side, you’re a blubbering idiot to call anyone a rat. You look like a rat
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Yet he has been correct every single time thus far.
MoRivera 1999
“Rat” is a suspicious word here, DarkSide. Generally used by criminals to target “snitches,” in exactly the way that Correa and now many Astros fans are targeting Fiers for harm. Are you a criminal or just a Fiers-hating Astros sympathizer?
MoRivera 1999
“Rat” is a curious word here, DarkSide. It’s generally used by criminals to target “snitches,” in exactly the way that Correa and now many Astros fans are targeting Fiers for harm.
datrain021
Exactly! If you want to disagree with his vocalness go ahead, but he also correctly called out the Astros on their cheating ways years ago.
Rudy Zolteck
No he didn’t. He tried to make up stuff about their pitchers, who aren’t involved in the scandal. You’re being misleading on purpose.
Just_a_thought
Weird use of the word licence… especially when used in the context of free speech, can’t say I’m 100% positive at all, but I think the US Constitution at least touches on that. I’m pretty sure you don’t need a license to speak in the US, however, I’m not aware of UK law.
DarkSide830
im not saying he isnt allowed to talk, but im saying i find it annoying the way he always chimes in on these things depite not always having all his facts right. (such as this situation)
kodion
You do, DarkSide830. What are your qualifications?
DarkSide830
oh please. this is a comment section on some random internet site. 1. my opinion doesnt matter 2. im hardly alleging anything as serious as Bauer is, simply just saying why i dont like the guy.
Just_a_thought
Oh please, you can tell by the responses no one took you seriously.
DarkSide830
you clearly took it seriously enough to have to respond.
Just_a_thought
So now the mere existence of a conversation necessitates that the substance is serious in nature?
Strike Four
Yeah and you seem to hate all players who speak out. Coincidence, right?
jdgoat
I fear that as well.
billysbballz
??? A Rat? He’s been calling out the Astros for years. Astro players like the great Bregman have been destroying him on twitter and now they are hiding. Bauer was absolutely right and to call him a rat makes you most likely a Astro or Red Sock fan????
DarkSide830
and that’s great and all, but if he provides extra details like this one that spice up ths story than that really undermines his credibility. sure he just added this part because people forgot that he was previously part of the alleging group.
DarkSide830
and good on him for it, but that doesn’t mean everything he says must be instantly believed now.
DockEllisDee
His credibility is much more galvanized than it had been before. I know I’ll give him a more serious listen now than I had
Varmit
Kinda like the Canseco book when it came out….
Strike Four
You don’t know what a rat is.
And yes, if someone was preventing me from succeeding in my career, my livelihood, my entire life since I was 5 years old because they are clearly cheating in the worst possible way, then yes, I’m going to scream at the top of my lungs every day at anyone who will listen.
He’s a PROFESSIONAL baseball player, that’s his license to speak on baseball.
Your anti-player takes are growing old. What did they do to you? Beat your fave team? This is pure selfishness on your end.
NatsFan15
This sounds like a player’s take. They might not like him breaking the code of silence.
But I follow one MLB player on Twitter: Trevor Bauer.
He’s loved by fans. Not so much by those on the inside.
metsie1
George Springer, known cheater just received $21M in an arbitration award. Gerrit Cole known cheater signed a record contract helped by stats created from, well, cheating. Astros made millions. Red Sox up next. Silence is really golden, I guess.
MLB MLB Commissioner Manfred: Just too difficult to discipline players. Nothing to see here. Move along.
khopper10
No evidence I’ve seen suggests Houston cheated to help pitchers. The W-L record may have been helped, but Cole got paid for things besides wins. Also he wasn’t there in 2017, which was the scope of the investigation.
DarkSide830
i mean, in reality, why even tell the pitchers when it doesnt pertain to them? more people to risk being whistleblowers. perhaps Fiers simply found out his information by chance. that would explain why he above anyone else could have been the one to spill.
yogineely
The pitchers have been accused of cheating by your boy, Bauer!
Also, who’s your team dark side
NatsFan15
Before the other cheating accusations, I assumed the Astros had a pitching coach who was really good at teaching how to increase the spin rate.
After the cheating was PROVEN, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. My guess now is that the Yankees will have the Pirates’ version of Cole. Though without knowing the details on the spin rate increases, I suppose that all edged cheating could spread across the league as well.
MoRivera 1999
“My guess now is that the Yankees will have the Pirates’ version of Cole.”
As a Yankee fan, I fear that very thing. I always felt there might be something to Bauers’ claim. This was always in the back of my mind while the Yankees were pursuing him. Now we’ll find out. Could be an expensive experiment.
Rudy Zolteck
Who cares about benefit of the doubt? He said no evidence. And it’s like that in a civil society, too. Guy gets charged and convicted of one thing, say he gets charged with something else, doesn’t mean he’s magically exempt from any other wrongdoing besides his conviction but it doesn’t mean he deserves the hammer for something that wasn’t proven or even substantiated. In this case you’re equating reputation with guilt. Is Cole going to regress to more human numbers? In my opinion yeah. But the way you’re doing it is wrong.
User 2997803866
You don’t even have the right year in question. Cole wasn’t on the Astros in 2017 bud.
You’re right. It paid out financially. It didn’t pay out from a reputation standpoint obviously. Welcome to capitalism my friend. This is the corporate world everyday. Doesn’t mean it’s right.
We also don’t know how “in” each player was. It’s not fair to assume absolutely everyone was okay with this. Shoot, we don’t know if players spoke up and were told to shut up.
In principle, you’re right, but get your facts straight before talking.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Lol of course you’re a Mets fan making these preposterous statements. You wish the Yankees would get the Pittsburgh version of Cole, but that’s just ego being hurt by a joke of a team.
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Houston did anything to help pitchers cheat. Period. Never mind that Cole wasn’t pitching for Houstin in 2017.
hopespringseternal
If we’re doing the MLB version of he said/he said rumor thing, where is the Logan Morrison tweet on Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros all using cameras to steal signs?
jdgoat
Agreed. I hope Ken Rosenthal will be talking to him as well. Seems like it’s just been otherwise brushed under the rug however.
DarkSide830
LoMo is just bitter. complained about having to play in AAA last year and is probably just angry none of those teams wanted to give him money this offseason.
stevecohenMVP
astros and redsox got caught and have been consistently good over the last few years. What if the better teams in mlb are cheating to be where they are. It seems that those 4 teams are the ones getting called on the most for cheating and 2 of those 4 got caught. Suspicious. LoMo is bitter but I bet he has some knowledge. Fiers is a gangster. He’ll be blackballed. No one really wants to be blackballed so they keep quiet. That’s why Bauer is awesome. I could care less if you dont like him. I dont like you and here we are
MoRivera 1999
“Fiers is a gangster” — Pffft!!!
Strike Four
Ah yes, the “no human being ever does anything ever unless its for their own personal gain” take. It’s a rotten one.
Sometimes, you just have to stand up and speak out. It’s takes like that which prevent it. Why are you personally so invested in this? Scared your fave team you homer for will get penalized? Selfish.
delete
The players involved didn’t make a statement about Logan Morrison’s tweet. Altuve broke the Astros players silence by issuing a full statement through his agent about a supposed fake news post. Very newsworthy actually.
ctguy
Logan Morrison is just trying to be relevant. It isn’t going to work. His grandstanding is ridiculous.
MoRivera 1999
Exactly. Fiers had evidence and there was instantly YouTube evidence to support his claim. What does Logan Morrison have? So far, just his mouth.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol so major leaguers who disagree with you aren’t credible? Judge got caught with a tablet on TV. The Athletic article on the Astros even says the Yankees could have been stealing since 2015. Your bias is ridiculous.
MoRivera 1999
“could have been” are the operative words. Very different from “found to have been,” as in “the Astros were found to have been stealing signs.”
Rudy Zolteck
Yeah because the MLB is yet to investigate it. Manfred is a New Yorker so who knows, he may not even want them to. The more they uncover, the bigger the PR nightmare. So he is likely going to try to sweep this under the rug. And it’s not like they “could have been” when Judge was right there with a tablet or a printout. Stay in denial buddy. You believe Bonds was clean because they didn’t give a positive test?
MoRivera 1999
Where was the camera? NYY have never been caught with a camera.
Rudy Zolteck
I said they haven’t been investigated yet genius. This is like the hundredth time you’ve intentionally missed the point. I said there was reason to believe the Yankees were stealing signs with technology and should be investigated. Aren’t you the one that thinks the Beltran account is an Oracle? So that post about Torres doesn’t affect you at all? Bonds never tested positive, you think he’s clean? Be consistent.
iml12
Seems like it may have spread like a virus from 2017 Astro managers and players. This is horrible for baseball if true.
BobbyDynamite
not really. it sounds like Carlos Beltran taught the 2017 Astros the ‘Yankees Method’ of stealing signs that he had learned previously in the Bronx, so if you are looking for the origin point of the ‘virus’, it probably isn’t in Houston.
Having said that, LaRussa was probably stealing signs in the 80s using prohibited means, so it’s not like NYY came up with the idea either.
MoRivera 1999
Where’s your evidence. Oh, that’s right, you have none. Snap!
prov356
This has gotten stupid. No “evidence” other than an anonymous twitter account and some people are dumb enough to believe it. You have UK Lottery winnings waiting for you too. All you have to do is pay the taxes via Green Dot card and it’s yours.
bjsguess
One might consider the whole freaking scandal as “evidence”.
Look, to this day Altuve, Bregman, and others have not been forthright about their involvement. Even when it’s well established they aren’t saying a word about their involvement with the trash cans. Color me skeptical when the KNOWN cheater and his BS agent spit out righteous indignation against the new claims.
I would trust the players if they simply fessed up to what they did. Until then, I’ll hold a healthy dose of skepticism against anything they say.
MoRivera 1999
Well said.
NatsFan15
Who has more credibility on this issue?
A) Anonymous twitter account
B) Proven liars and cheaters
It’s the Astros’ own fault that they have less credibility than an anonymous Twitter account.
prov356
Natsfan16 at al: you can’t judge credibility based on not being able to prove a negative. That’s the basis for “innocent until proven guilty” in our legal system. Accusations with zero evidence are irrelevant.
And no bjsguess, one can’t consider the scandal itself as evidence of this new accusation being true. Not even circustantially.
number1dodger
I know one thing is for sure. All eyes will be on the Houston Astros this season.
billysbballz
Of course they didn’t! Because obviously they didn’t want to find any evidence exposing the great Astro and Red Sox superstars! What a cover up!!!! If you are gonna run and investigation do it the right way and make it so it will never occurred again, meaning really go out and conduct a thorough investigation:
“while we haven’t discovered any information that wearable devices were being utilized, MLB’s investigation is ongoing and it appears that devices are something we are still looking at as potentially being utilized to cheat”!
tigersfan1320
Doesn’t seem like a cover up to me. Seemed like a thorough investigation with rightful punishments based on the information they found. They would have mentioned wearable devices in their investigation if it had actually been a legitimate claim
MoRivera 1999
No. They didn’t even look at wearable devices. What they are saying is that wearable devices didn’t come up. Nobody asked about it, nobody talked about it.
bobtillman
Ah, so now we know what Odell Beckham Jr. was doing in the LSU locker room after the Championship game. He was patting the cops and the players on the bottom checking for transmission devices…….
I may be a bit confused here…….
desertbull
And OJ is innocent
thebluemeanie
Manfred has been a failure as commissioner so far.
AndyMeyer
3 managers and a GM gone with days sends a pretty strong message
Moneyballer
You can’t investigate what you didn’t have knowledge of to look for to begin with. This isn’t over! MLB doesn’t want it to be true.
DarkSide830
i dont get this take. why exactly would the league want to cover this up now, if ever? Everyone already knows it happened, and hiding some of the facts now that we already know something bad happened only makes things look worse on the league.
iml12
It seems like they wanted to hand out punishments and close the book. If it’s true they were still cheating in the 2019 playoffs it’s a huge deal. Big suspensions would need to be handed out to players and would drag in the unions.
Enwrong
Why would the league want to cover this up? In 2018 sports gambling became legal in the USA. Professional leagues need to have integrity now more than ever. I just read back on this, 1.1 Billion annually is suggested as the possible value of legalized gambling to the MLB. Place your bets wisely in 2020
Rudy Zolteck
This was already a headline after the Fiers confession. One of the big writers (Sherman? I forget) tweeted it at the time. This is just revived recently because of fan speculation. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t part of the investigation. And even if it was, if the MLB didn’t find sign stealing evidence, the buzzers wouldn’t matter because they have nothing to communicate.
canocorn
Money;
You CAN investigate with video and audio recordings, and via personal memories. One can even investigate the existence of dinosaurs even though there were no people around to have knowledge of their existence when they roamed the Earth.
canocorn
“The buzzers wouldnt matter” ?
Then I guess dinosaur bones don’t matter because they can’t rear up and devour you.
Rudy Zolteck
Bad analogy because the bones were connected to a body. They had a purpose. If the Astros had no video feed to decode signs then how would the buzzers come into play? Especially after MLB already knew about these accusations from right around the time Fiers spoke up? This isn’t a brand new deal.
TradeBait
What’s that I hear? Oh, it’s MLB using a vacuum cleaner instead of a broom.
Bluetooth a vibration on a body sensor. Nah, that could never happen, Well, could it, MLB?
Of course there’s no evidence now. Geez. Only a video, photo or multiple testimonies would work now. But lets ban Pete Rose again to make sure.
stevecohenMVP
Pete Rose is a pedophile so who cares if hes banned or not.
Rudy Zolteck
Comparing apples and oranges. This has nothing to do with gambling.
hetzel01
I can’t wait to see the reaction opposing fans give them on road trips this year. It will be brutal yet well deserved.
BobbyDynamite
:The fans will be brutal but opposing players (who know the Astros are being scapegoated for a league-wide problem), not so much. Many position players for the Brewers, Rangers, Blue Jays, Yankees, and several other teams know they were doing similar stuff but just didn’t get caught. They will have more pity than anger for the Astros.
MoRivera 1999
“Brewers, Rangers, Blue Jays, Yankees..doing similar stuff.”
Evidence? And no the NYY were not fined for using cameras or stealing signs. The Commissioner found “no merit” in those claims by the Red Sox. The complaint was dismissed for “insufficient evidence.” They were fined for having a phone. So your evidence is what exactly?
iml12
That interview of Cora after playing the Yankees is pretty bad. The Yankees biggest off season acquisition was Beltrán to the front office. A wink and a nod that a group of players know what’s going on.
Rudy Zolteck
The Athletic has them under suspicion during and after 2015. Aaron Judge got caught with a tablet on TV. Logan Morrison attests to it. We’re supposed to take your word over all these sources? Yankees keep acting like a righteous organization even after riding juice to titles and it’s crazy.
MoRivera 1999
@ImI12
“That interview of Cora after playing the Yankees is pretty bad.”
And it was found to be baseless.
“The Yankees biggest off season acquisition was Beltrán to the front office.”
Circumstantial. Special advisers are hired to do all kinds of things. Again, where’s your evidence that the NYY stole signs? Oh, that’s right: you have none.
MoRivera 1999
@ImI12
Upon review, the Commissioner’s office found Cora/The Red Sox’s accusations of sign stealing to have “no merit” citing “insufficient evidence.”
Teams hire Special Advisers for all kinds of reasons. Your insinuation that the NYY hired Beltran for advice on sign stealing is baseless slander.
iml12
I didn’t suggest it, Alex Cora did. They may not of hired him to steal signs but he very well may of shared it with players. And as far as I know the Red Sox investigation hasn’t been completed but ok. We get it you are a yankee fan or a Red Sox fan.
MoRivera 1999
“he very well may of (sic) shared it with players”
Weak circumstantial evidence and wild speculation. Two people being together is not evidence of one sharing particular information with the other. And in this case it would have taken organizational coordination, trash cans, or buzzers, etc. to demonstrate that such information was used, assuming it was transferred in the first place. Which is a big assumption.
Rudy Zolteck
His point was all this mounting suspicion means a Yankees investigation should be launched, not that they’re guilty and should be sentenced to the abyss of despair. Just like with the Astros, wasn’t until dudes started digging that they found something. In your case you want no more digging to take place, with my guess being you don’t want the tables to turn. Why be afraid of an investigation that would vindicate the Yankees if they have nothing to hide?
MoRivera 1999
@ImI12
“That interview of Cora after playing the Yankees is pretty bad.”
And, upon review, The Commissioner found his accusations to be baseless.
“The Yankees biggest off season acquisition was Beltrán to the front office.”
Circumstantial. Where’s your evidence that the NYY stole signs? There is none.
neurogame
Can you imagine wearing Houston paraphernalia in an opposing team’s park?
I’d buy traveler’s insurance if I planned to be a visiting fan.
kleppy12
I don’t know about you guys but I have zero faith that MLB can conduct an investigation well enough to actually be able to figure out if this was true or not.
stros1fan
Then I guess you must have doubts about their recently completed investigation that the Astros used camera feeds in 2017, including the playoffs, and the start of the 2018 season as well. After all, you have zero faith that MLB can conduct an investigation well enough to actually be able to figure out if this was true or not. Or maybe you just choose to believe the part of the investigation you want to believe, but ignore the part you don’t like.
3768902
It’s cynical and not to be THAT guy, but this makes me wonder how pervasive this scandal would have to get before the MLB would start covering it up.
citizen
Would friers even get a contract in todays market? Bye Bye jessica mendoza for attacking him.
Altuve might wanted to have sold his game winning HR jersey.
If its on the internet, its likely fake.
stan lee the manly
What in the world are you talking about? Fiers has a sub-4 ERA in 33 starts and 180+ innings. Would Fiers even get a contract, what kind of a clown question is that?
stan lee the manly
In the year of the juiced ball and everything. Dude is a very solid MLB pitcher
Rudy Zolteck
Fiers saved the Astros in 2017. In June and July (if I remember right) he did fantastic and was one of two opening day rotation members who hadn’t got hurt, maybe the only one, during that time. I think it’s disingenuous for Astros fans to attack his performance. His personality is a different story. He got so heated at AJ that Carlos Gomez had to restrain him, now that’s how you know he’s got an attitude lol
BobbyDynamite
I remember the game well when Fiers got mad about Hinch removing him for a reliever. At the time, it seemed like Hinch was the one in control. I never would have guessed that when it was all said and done, Fiers would end up getting Hinch fired.
Surely the the irony of that episode is not lost on Fiers’ prospective future employers.
MoRivera 1999
Funny how certain people are focused on retribution for Fiers rather than the players. Some of these people even want him harmed, even killed. But these people still insist on lionizing the exploits of the players. smh
BobbyDynamite
it was the July 18, 2016 game between Oakland and Houston where Fiers had a go at Hinch.
Fiers has every right to his personal safety, but certainly teams that might entertain signing him in the future will have to be mindful of this rather awkward precedent in which Fiers first blows up at his manager when he doesn’t get his way, then subsequently takes action to get the manager fired.
He sounds like a dangerous player to cross, yet sometimes managers have to make decisions that players don’t like.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol no one deserves retribution from it or to get harmed but it’s not a lie to say Mike Fiers has beef with his former team stemming from his personality. He’s not a peachy guy when things don’t go his way. Collin McHugh’s wife even confirmed that he was trying to uncover sign-stealing by the Astros regardless of what other teams did it because he was dead-set on crushing them. It’s not that crazy either when he got left off the postseason roster and pulled from games when he didn’t want to be because of AJ’s style.
But no the fans who think he should be harmed are wrong.
MoRivera 1999
Fair enough.
MrAngelFan
Between beaning Stanton in the face and turning on his old team, I do not believe Fiers is making a lot of friends in the league.
goastros123
MLB is between a rock and a hard place thanks to Fiers: if they punish the Astros (as well as the Red Sox) the way people want then neither fanbase will be happy and that will lead to a loss of profits. If they don’t, who’s to say people don’t turn away from MLB, which would affect profits? Mike Fiers shouldn’t be harmed, hurt, etc for what he did but he shouldn’t be viewed as a saint or some great person because of the bad situation he put baseball in as well as his questionable motives.
BlueSkyLA
So it would be better if the cheaters had gotten away with it because the truth will cause some to be unhappy, and worse yet, someone will lose money?
Good lord. There isn’t enough Zantac in the world to cure the case of ingestion that reasoning gave me.
number1dodger
The Houston’s dugout. the trash cans need to be removed and replaced with plastic bags.
neurogame
So we, the public and fans of baseball are expected to believe two things:
1. That MLB investigators who either refused to further scrutinize the Astros for the past allegations or couldn’t find evidence on the Astros in their prior digging and ultimately would have nothing on the club without the help of a past player in Mike Fiers, have used 3 days to conclude no cheating/buzzing device was worn by Astro hitters,
2. Someone has who has yet to publicly admit they cheated despite all the damning evidence, says he didn’t cheat in that way.
Yup, you don’t think much of your fan base do you?
Rudy Zolteck
This is not a new headline. It’s been dropped within the last couple months. One of the writers had a tweet about accusations of buzzing band-aids, maybe Sherman (?) soon after the Fiers thing. This is not something that came up within the last couple days.
stan lee the manly
The MLB is doing everything it can to avoid punishing the players involved because they are worried that they are going to find a lot more sign-stealing schemes in the future. If they set that precedent now, they will have to suspend all of the players they find, then pretty soon the top 20% of MLB talent can’t play anymore.
But sure, there was no evidence of wearable devices. Eye roll.
whyhayzee
If you’re the best at playing the game of baseball you will make hundreds of millions of dollars. Even if you’re not the best but among the best you will make hundreds of millions of dollars. If you’re very good you might make a hundred million dollars. If you’re average you might make ten million dollars. How could there possibly be any motivation to cheat? Here’s a crazy idea. Robot umps and no signals. The pitcher decides what to throw and the catcher has to deal with it. Like being in the field trying to figure out where the ball is going. See the ball, catch the ball. Good luck baseball.
BobbyDynamite
better yet, just legalize both sign stealing for position players and pine tar for pitchers.
Pitchers would have better control, thus reducing HBP’s and walks.
MLB would not have to incur financial or personnel costs to police sign-stealing. If a pitcher or catcher begin to suspect the hitting team can anticipate the next pitch, they come up with a new way of communicating.
Let’s not forget Fiers himself used pine tar in his first no-hitter; he’s no angel when it comes to MLB rules. I like to think he used pine tar because he was determined not to cause serious injury on a HBP like he did to Giancarlo Stanton, rather than to gain advantage, but who knows.
Just_a_thought
I have to admit, your “the pitcher decides what to throw and the catcher has to deal with it” line made me spit out my coffee and laugh. Thank you for that crazy idea that made me lol.
SupremeZeus
Truth fears no questions.
beknighted
“MLB Found No Evidence Of Wearable Devices During Astros Investigation”
The exact statement that would be issued as part of a cover-up. It’s already been established that Manfred wanted to cover as much of Astrosgate up as possible. Why should we take anything he says at face value?
Steve Adams
This isn’t to defend Manfred — just a counterpoint since I find the source of all this controversy so nonsensical:
Why should we believe anything that was said about the Astros by a deleted Twitter account erroneously claiming to be the niece of a Yankees employee who would know nothing of any 2019 schemes by the Astros?
baseballpun
Well, FWIW…
nj.com/yankees/2020/01/mlb-rumors-carlos-beltrans-…
“The account which claims to belong to Beltran’s niece has some credibility built up. Along with tweeting out that Beltran was stepping down from his position with the Mets on Wednesday — a full day before the news broke — the account also tweeted out that Beltran was going to be the Mets manager four days prior to the official announcement.”
Steve Adams
I’m aware of those tweets, which do nothing to substantiate that it is his niece — particularly when the family denies it. Beltran was reported to be a Mets’ managerial candidate and reported to be in jeopardy of losing his job at the time she “broke” the hiring and firing. It wouldn’t be crazy to just put a stab out there.
I’ve seen guesses as to the operator of that account ranging from a Beltran family member, to a player, a front office exec and even to Incarcerated Bob.
But let’s play devil’s advocate and pretend this is actually Beltran’s niece or someone who knows him well. Why on earth would that person have any idea about Jose Altuve wearing a buzzer in 2019? Altuve and Beltran were teammates in 2017; Beltran in 2019 worked for one of Altuve’s chief rivals. Altuve and other Astros would likely be going out of their way to make sure Beltran knew nothing of the scheme.
There’s no logical connection here.
jdgoat
Meh, it’s not like they were hard predictions. That account also said Rendon was going to be a Met. Can’t pick and choose when to use it.
Steve Adams
Ha, I hadn’t even seen the Rendon thing. That’s good to know.
Scrap1ron
Unfortunately today’s culture tends toward considering unsubstantiated allegations as fact that a crime has been committed. Innocent until proven guilty is no longer the standard.
canocorn
“… today’s culture…” ?
Ever hear of the Salem witch trials?
Strike Four
That twitter account broke both Beltrans hiring and firing before it happened though. It’s someone close to him, but it’s not him. Gary Sheffield Jr says its a player, Phil Hughes was also talking about it on twitter, so this is a little more than a phony troll account.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol it wasn’t a far-fetched thing for Beltrán to get hired by the Mets, or fired because of this investigation. The buzzers have already been in the news a couple months back after the Fiers confession, they just weren’t being raved about by fans. That account puts out other ~truth bombs~ that are off (Rendon to the Mets?) that make its credibility doubtful.
indiansfan44
A point of interest that wasn’t mentioned in the article is Gary Sheffield Jr tweeted out that the deactivated account wasn’t Beltran’s neice but actually a players burner account. People questioned him on it and his next tweet said in what looked to be a sarcastic manner yeah I don’t have any info but I just guess right every time. He does have connections with players and media due to his dad so it could add some credibility to the accusations.
throwinched10
The twitter account is a burner account for Beltran himself. He is clearing his conscience while trying to remain anonymous.
stevecohenMVP
MLB is covering a lot of stuff up. Manfred is a crook and the owners are too. This sport has been tarnished. I’m cancelling my mlb package for 2020. What a joke this has become
Strike Four
Well written and I agree with all points, especially about twitter and the stranglehold it has on every possible narrative.
It’s truly beyond ridiculous how much influence twitter has over everyone, when there’s only 134 million daily users, many of whom are bots/troll accounts. Even if they are legit people, 134 million divided by 8 billion = 1.675% of the Earth’s population uses twitter.
Why are we letting 1.675% of the world decide anything or influence anything ever???
canocorn
Why are we letting the top 1% wealthiest people make the lion’s share of profits?
Rudy Zolteck
That’s at least the second time you made a completely unrelated political argument on a baseball forum dude, pump the brakes lol
macstruts
I just want the game cleaned up. I want PEDs out and the best way to do that is people fired and public stigmas.
Bonds and Clemens are getting close to the Hall of Fame. A-Rod works for ESPN. A-Rod and Manny both have rings but no one puts a stigma on their rings.
The Astros 2017 championship is tainted. The players who openly received signs cheated. It doesn’t matter if it’s by patch or lights, or signals or trash cans.
Sabermetric Acolyte
If you’re going to talk about taint in the game then we’re likely going to have to invalidate half of the records out there.
AllRiseForTheJudge
What does A-Rod’s steroid use as a player have to do with his employment at a television network? They are in no way connected and he can use all the steroids he wants as an analyst.
These are not crimes. Players are not being arrested for using drugs that are otherwise legal under Federal law but banned from the game of baseball for obvious reasons. What you are suggesting is that human beings should never be permitted to work again as punishment for breaking the rules of a game.
We don’t even punish convicted felons that way. Your assertion is preposterous.
Strike Four
PED’s aren’t even close to stealing signs, if anything all PEDs do is keep players healthy – which is actually good for the game and keeps fans in seats. Problem with focussing on the “PED users deserve the death penalty” narratives is when you focus on that, you gloss over that baseball is a skill game, and the best athletes of all time, like Michael Jordan, were absolutely terrible at it, yet short fat guys like Tony Gwynn and John Kruk excelled at the highest level. Bobby Estalella, Paxton Crawford, Shane Monahan and Tom House (to name just a few) all admitted using steroids and were all terrible players. Steroids do not make you better at baseball if you aren’t already good at it.
Sign stealing is far, far worse. because It breaks apart the very fabric of the game, which is “pitcher trying to throw one by the hitter”.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Well said. The only thing PEDs really do is make you stronger, which, obviously, makes the ball go further if you hit it. But if you already can’t hit it, no amount of steroids will change that.
With that said, there are drugs out there that are on the banned substance list because they do enhance hand-eye coordination and improve focus and for those reasons, they’re considered performance-enhancing I.E. PEDs. It’s hard to argue that if you’re artificially improving your focus and ability to track the ball and time your swing, that’s going to increase your ability to make contact.
And then we’re back to the part where guys who make contact while on steroids hit the ball further, so in the end, someone taking drugs for all three things has a huge advantage.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol Yankees fans brushing it off. Steroids increase durability and recovery over a long season and allows a guy to stay sharp when he should be falling off because of fatigue. The Yankees did this aggressively and reaped the rewards. It is a tool to artificially pump up a player’s performance, just like sign stealing. It was banned after 91. So there’s no spinning this to make it sound like it’s not an illicit method of getting an advantage. Am I saying we should strip wins and awards for late 90s/late 00s Yankee teams? No. It’s history. But it’s not an organization of altar boys.
MoRivera 1999
“The Yankees did this aggressively”
Individual players used ‘roids. Not the team. Not even close. The ones we know are A-Rod and Pettite, both of whom admitted it. And Pettite did his in Houston. Clemens talked him into going to Houston. Then Clemens talked him into ‘roids. The last confirmed user was Clemens. The rest are unsubstantiated conjecture. Again, not the team. That’s slander.
Rudy Zolteck
Yes the teams were in on it, that’s what the Mitchell Report uncovered. How do you think PEDs spread in the first place? Since you seem to have an answer for anything the Yankees do wrong. They talked about it a bunch. Why do you think Biogenesis was such a scandal? The players all discovered it on their own and never told anyone?
And even then it doesn’t matter if it’s individual. You don’t know who on the team benefitted from stealing signs. Having better road numbers proves this. When a guy takes juice and his production improves, the team gets a benefit from it. That isn’t hard to see. So again, you’re just doing more hand-waving on serious cheating and burying your head in the sand. Guys who did juice helped their teams win even if they didn’t tell anybody and the teams should be held accountable.
MoRivera 1999
An individual or two juicing does not benefit the team as the whole team stealing signs. Sorry. No way.
Rudy Zolteck
Except you don’t know if all of them participated and have no facts on that. Even if they did, you don’t know the impact, again, and you haven’t answered why their road numbers were better in 17.
And yes individuals juicing helps the team. It makes them better at the game of baseball and helps the team win games. McGwire sipping on that Capri-Sun helps everyone on his team because the A’s win games when he produces. I don’t see how it’s different than stealing signs here and there with tech in terms of effect. Both have the same endgame, which is to help the team win. Obviously we know the mechanism is different, we’re not dumb. Pettitte and Clemens, two top-top-level guys, in a postseason series of 5 or 7 games have a monumental impact when they are on the sauce, especially after 162+ games where they are still sharp because of the physical and mental health effects of performance-enhancing drugs. How you brush it off is honestly amazing.
MoRivera 1999
What the Mitchell Report did was uncover “implicated” people. These people did not take and fail PED testing. They were simply accused.
♪
“if anything all PEDs do is keep players healthy”
You’re so wrong..
♪
“if anything all PEDs do is keep players healthy”
You’re so wrong.. 60 and 70 home run seasons by the likes of Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, etc, etc. were not as the result of simply good health.
bigbadjohnny
Is that a Cheating Device in your pants or are you just happy to be standing on third base ?
AllRiseForTheJudge
Somewhere on that Astros team, someone’s got a Prince Albert that keeps vibrating every time the buzzer on his shoulder goes off
mr. g
Maybe players should wear buzzers. Seems like a good way for catchers and pitchers to communicate with each other. Hard to steal that sign.
AllRiseForTheJudge
There are photos that very clearly show *something* under Altuve’s shirt, conveniently in the *exact* location the mystery Tweeter, who it’s worth noting has been 100% spot on with everything Beltran-related to this point, said they were hiding buzzers.
There’s another photo making the rounds that shows tape in the same area that is clearly holding *something* in place. The mystery Tweeter also claims to have locker room photos showing these devices.
How is it that someone – most likely an Astros player using a burner account – has all this information but MLB can’t find it?
jdgoat
This is straw grasping. The hiring prediction was a 50% guess, and the firing was guaranteed to happen…
Rudy Zolteck
Dude the Beltrán stuff wasn’t a bombshell. People knew he would get fired after the Cora story broke. People knew he was likely to get brought on by the Mets because that’s the only team he really showed enthusiasm for. That account also said Rendon to the Mets… real right on that one weren’t they?
MrAngelFan
@Allrise So if the Tweeter account is 100% correct, both sides had cheaters, Torres for the Yankees and Altuve for the Astros. The Yankees should ask Gerrit, he should know since he was in the same locker room as Altuve and Bregman.
MoRivera 1999
There is no evidence of Torres using sign stealing, and if he were wouldn’t the whole team show the same evidence? Is one guy going to be stealing signs? Unlikely. No evidence as yet. As for Altuve, we have his behavior of vigorously being worried about having his shirt torn off, which began shortly after he turned third (grabbing his buttons), and running into the tunnel to change his shirt when his entire team was celebrating his walk-off, series ending, ALCS winning HR. Who walks away from that to change a shirt? And his inability to directly answer the question when a reporter asked him why he changed his shirt…. All too suspicious.
Rudy Zolteck
Missed the point again because the proposal was that you have to take the account’s claims of Torres cheating seriously if you want to establish credibility on its claims about Altuve as well. And the reason we can’t use this same case for Torres with the celebration is because they lost lol so obviously you can’t compare their behaviors. But even then you predicate this on Altuve *needing* aid to hit a homer off Chapman, which is already absurd.
MoRivera 1999
Still can’t explain Altuve’s behavior.
34679
Jose Altuve’s OPS+ with Astros before AJ Hinch: 80
Jose Altuve’s OPS+ with Astros with AJ Hinch: 139
That’s one hell of a coincidence.
BobbyDynamite
Altuve’s 2017 Road OPS without trashcan banging: 1.081
Altuve’s 2017 Home OPS with trashcan banging: 0.834
Reconcile.
stevecohenMVP
look at postseason stats
BobbyDynamite
The regular season provides a much larger and meaningful sample size than the one-month postseason.
It wasn’t just Altuve… the 2017 Astros as a whole hit better on the road than at Minute Maid.
This doesn’t make sign stealing in violation of the rules acceptable, but it suggests the Astros were largely wasting their time, and possibly even hurting their hitting game more than they helped it.
Rudy Zolteck
Most teams have better home numbers than road numbers in the playoffs. That’s why HFA is considered so important.
georgedemas
“Beltran’s cousin” has never supplied false information. She knew when he was hired before it was public, and she knew when he was fired before it was made public. She claims to have locker room photos of the devices on players. I imagine she does.
AllRiseForTheJudge
I thought it was “Beltran’s niece”. Either way, someone out there has the goods to bring down an entire organization and if that’s the case, which I absolutely believe it to be based on the photos circulating on Twitter, anyone wearing a buzzer should be banned for life.
There’s no way this doesn’t go deeper than a trash can, and I’d be interested in reviewing Boston’s game photos from the 2018 season to see if there’s any evidence of a similar device being used by them.
Steve Adams
The “niece” tweeted that Beltran would step down after it was already reported that his job was in jeopardy. They tweeted that he’d been hired after he was already one of two reported finalists. The family denied that the account was someone related to them before buzzer accusations were even hurled.
Also, why would Carlos Beltran’s niece have locker-room photos of the 2019 Astros? Carlos Beltran was a Yankees front office advisor in 2019.
seamaholic 2
It’s not Beltran’s niece. It’s a player, likely Beltran himself if I had to guess. The photos — if they exist — were I assume taken by clubhouse personnel and passed to him because for whatever reason they like or have a relationship with him, and don’t like how he was treated.
LarryJ4
I love the statement released by Altuve’s agent! It’s scripted just like the player who swore they didn’t use PED’s but admitted to it afterwards! Later it will be “I don’t know how that buzzer got there! I unknowingly had it on me and thought that it was just static from the dryer!” SMH!
canocorn
Boras concerned for his own bottom line.
Metsocracy
I find it hard to believe that scores of ballplayers given immunity for their testimony would choose to jeopardize that immunity by omitting the mechanical device aspect of AstrosGate. Why would they do such a thing? Wouldn’t one player refuse? Moreover, even if it’s true, mechanical devices were merely the mode of transmission; their use doesn’t make AstrosGate more egregious. It simply changes it into a more interesting techno-thriller.
I know that we live in a conspiracy-centric culture, but to believe that scores of ballplayers uniformly decided to omit this (irrelevant) aspect of AstrosGate strains credulity for several reasons…
– How did everyone giving testimony (separated by space and time) agree to omit this detail?
– Why would this particular detail warrant such a conspiracy of silence?
– What about all the players who had nothing but a cup of coffee with HOU and who’ve since been released, non-tendered, etc… why have they remained silent about this detail, especially since AstrosGate broke?
– Why hit trashcans if you have electronic devices?
– And these questions don’t even begin to address the issue of questionable sourcing underpinning this rumor.
Conspiracists will always conjure up ad hoc explanations to dismiss any and all reasoned counters to their worldview, so I have no doubt the true believers will remain true believers. But to the rest of us, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence… and that evidence is grossly lacking here.
BobbyDynamite
Good and relevant questions. I do hope the transcripts from Manfred’s investigators’ interviews with the dozens of witnesses will be kept for posterity and “declassified” in 30 to 50 years. Some baseball historian is going to have one heck of a book to write about this one day.
I agree with you that there’s a lot that doesn’t add up about this.
Then again, this is the team whose shortstop claimed to have broken a rib by means of a massage gone wrong. Things not adding up seems to be a theme with the Astros.
MoRivera 1999
“How did everyone giving testimony (separated by space and time) agree to omit this detail?”
“Why would this particular detail warrant such a conspiracy of silence?”
MLB don’t ask, players don’t tell. If you’re not asked the question, it doesn’t take a cone of silence not to answer. Duh.
“What about all the players who had nothing but a cup of coffee with HOU and who’ve since been released, non-tendered, etc… why have they remained silent about this detail, especially since AstrosGate broke?”
Fear of reprisal. These guys are dying to get INTO the club…
“Why hit trashcans if you have electronic devices?”
Maybe they used both. Maybe they used trashcans first, then electronic devices. Without a legit investigation into electronic devices specifically, we won’t know.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol they already investigated because the buzzers are not a new accusation. This story released within the last couple months. Chapman threw a hanger dude. Swallow it and get ready for 2020. The Yankees have a great team.
MoRivera 1999
Nobody but Stros homers believe the investigation covered buzzers. No way Altuve PULLED a high and outside slider OUT OF THE PARK without knowing what the pitch was.
MoRivera 1999
You say the buzzers story was released months ago but there was no reporting or chatter here about it. Curious.
Rudy Zolteck
Dude I already laid out how it was obvious a slider was coming even to people watching at home. Aroldis’ fastball was not working for him. He yanked one to Springer that let him on with a walk. His command for his heat was not there. This is not a new phenomenon with Aroldis. He’s still great but I mean, it is what it is. Reddick went down on 5 pitches with 3 being sliders. This is consistent with what we know about his pitch usage. He used the slider over 30% of the time in 2019 and 40% when he reached two strikes. So you got a guy who’s struggling to throw his fastball for strikes, and a junk pitch that was working for him that night. Altuve isn’t dumb, dude. He was sitting on the breaking ball because of what he saw, using basic baseball intuition.
And you have to be a liar or just that kid who got picked last for stickball if you see nothing wrong with throwing a cement mixer breaking ball to a hitter as good as Altuve. That pitch ended up being more high-out because it failed to sink, and hitters are going to crush that when they were already sitting breaking ball. And it didn’t go out. You can see it bounced off the back left field wall like a lot of homers do in that park. Rendon hit one back there off Greinke and no one thought he was cheating, it’s just a shorter park. So the distance is kind of moot if you take all this into consideration. Aroldis threw a hanger to a hitter who was sitting breaking ball (for reasons I and other commenters explained) and he paid for it. Why is that pitch the hill Yankees fans want to die on? It’s not like Aroldis is Jamie Moyer throwing 10 different pitches. A little bit of research and you can figure it out. He’s still very good. But he made a mistake. Even Mariano did sometimes.
Rudy Zolteck
There is a Yahoo article from Nov 22 (or around it) where it talks about Jeff Passan first mentioning the band-aids. Likewise you could maybe go to his twitter and find it but I am not big on there. I mistakenly said it was Sherman at first so that’s my bad.
goastros123
A great hitter doesn’t need help to see a flat slider and hit it for a walk off. Chapman would’ve walked Altuve to get to Marisnick. He did not. Whether you want to admit or not, Astros were better than the Yankees in 2019. Even Stephen A Smith, who wants the Astros stripped of their trophy (so you know he’s not an Astros), basically said Chapman made an idiotic mistake.
goldenmisfit
I think most people with half a brain can realize major-league baseball is lying because they just want this to go away. Since the accusations have come out we have seen many videos as well as photos showing players such as Jose Altuve with bulges sticking out of their jersey as well as tape hanging off their shoulders and we are supposed to believe almost instantly they found nothing? Anyone who believes that I have a break in Brooklyn I’d love to sell them.
canocorn
I qualify as having half a brain, and I say…
Everybody lies.
And that’s the truth, … pfthbbffbbffbbh!
Vizionaire
well, anyway, cheaters cheat and once they start cheating they won’t stop voluntarily and will do anything to get advantages. so cheaters cheated in ’17 but stopped in ’19? lmao!.
BlueJaysBeliever
Just going to leave this here in case anyone cares for proof:
If you YouTube the Tim and Sid video (30 minutes long) from January 16, 2020 – you can see at 20:16 in the video how Josh Reddick’s piece of tape on his left pectoral bulges in the middle, as if it hadn’t been affixed to his skin directly. In the still image that immediately follows the interview in the locker-room, you can see a thin black line running underneath that piece of tape.
Secondly – immediately after Altuve his that HR off Chapman, he ran into the dugout, past Ken Rosenthal and changed his shirt. When asked by Ken, upon his return to the field for the interview, why he didn’t want his teammates to rip off his shirt, he responded “I’m shy…. and my wife would be very mad”.. yet on his Instagram, 5 easily accessible photos were found without him wearing his shirt.
Very intriguing to say the least and I sincerely hope, for the game’s sake, that the MLB investigates. If this comes to light, then I sincerely believe a lifetime ban is required to deter any future players even considering cheating to this degree.
Polish Hammer
Sure, and Raffy Palmiero never took steroids either…
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
That “burner” account is definitely linked to somebody close to Beltran. It leaked his Mets hire and his resignation well before it happened.
And this person says they have locker room pictures of 2019 Astros wearing devices?
Hmmm….who played on the 2019 Astros and also played with Beltran previously? And who would have incentive to embarrass the Astros in 2020 by leaking this (perhaps being on a rival club now)?
Scouring roster histories……Robinson Chirinos…..2019 Astro and former Ranger teammate of Beltran…….taking foil hat off now…..
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
si.com/mlb/mets/news/the-amazins-need-to-please-th…
seamaholic 2
I assume it’s Beltran himself. His photos probably come from Astros employees (not necessarily players) whom he’s close to. He’s pissed and in revenge mode, but that will pass. I bet we don’t hear from that account again.
throwinched10
The account belongs to Beltran! He is trying to remain anonymous while clearing his conscience
msqboxer
The penalty right now doesn’t fit the crime….Cardinals hack a computer for information and the have to pay the Astros $2MM plus 2 1st round picks and the guilty person is banned from baseball. Seems the Astros should surrender 1st round picks to whomever they beat in the playoffs and world series plus all money earned from MLB for playoff appearences during the years in question.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The punishment is obvious.
Make the asterisk official.
2017 World Series Champions: Houston Astros*
*caught cheating.
canocorn
Houston Asterisks
heater
I have more of a problem with players getting a pass. Trash cans, whistles, buzzers or otherwise, they cheated too. I hope Manfred looks the other way and let’s the players police themselves.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Of course there is no evidence of this…
Mike Fiers wasn’t on that team.
He was the only Henry Hill in the bunch, the rest are all Jimmy Conways. Criminals tend to cover their tracks.
Also, I have truckloads of bridges to sell to anyone who thinks Altuve was just being modest about his pecs.
Spoiler alert- They used the buzzers. Their pitchers used pine tar. They banged the can slowly. Luhnow stole the Cards info. Cheaters cheat.
Rudy Zolteck
forwhom = DeWitt burner confirmed
WhereIs28
MLB did a good job with the original scandal. Then they acted like the nfl with the rest its just crazy that they think we are stupid enough to believe their excuse. In this time where ppl lie every single day about even the stupidest things they should know better.
mack22 2
Houston should be stripped of the WS title
JoeW 2
Lets just burn it down. Destroy the league…………………………….that’ll show em.
Soapbox
Sign stealing in many forms has been going on as long as there have been baseball signs to steal. Owners and players brought the electronics into the game, for the better, and should have expected this. It’s going to be really interesting to see how Ken Rosenthal will be treated in the future. He’s always after the big scoop, well he pushed this one all the way. Rosenthal may have got his last big scoop. Fame does have a price.
Surly
If the league and ownership were doing their jobs at prevention, there would be no cheating and no need for an investigation. Drain the swamp!
Make Baseball Great Again!
wordonthestreet
Jack McDowell says the White Sox under LaRussa used video to steal signs in the 1980’s!
JayKay
Until the league or others have a more thorough search into these claims, then I personally see no need to go out of my way to “prove” it as true or false. Those who care enough to post their cases? I recommend finding a way to get involved with the case (if they aren’t already), otherwise said claims are simply speculation IMO.
Yes, it’s important that this controversy be investigated, but facts and confirmed witnesses rather then debatable claims are what will convince me.
Either way, whether you agree with me or not, I appreciate any positive and negative feedback and only have this to say in response: thank you for sharing, have a nice day.
jleve618
You posted 5 hours too late, noone cares anymore.
throwinched10
The mysterious Twitter account claiming to be Carlos Beltran’s niece, is actually Carlos Beltran clearing his conscience. Think about it – they reported that the Mets were going to hire Beltran a few days before the media knew. They have pictures of the Astros cheating. They also recently said to check Gleyber Torres’ thigh or something for a device. Beltran was the special advisor to the Yankees last year. The account belongs to Beltran. This is his way of coming clean without letting the world know that he is being a snitch.
Strike Four
Also considering Beltran made an obvious burner and was replying to people on twitter @B15Ivan – he’s probably running multiple ones….
He also just pointed at Urshela and Tauchman as cheaters, wow….
Now I think Mike Fiers isn’t going to be the one who’s remembered for this, protect Carlos Beltran at all costs!
iml12
When I heard the Torres rumor the first person I thought of was Urshela. What a career year for so many players for the Yanks.
jleve618
So the balls weren’t juiced, it’s just every team knew what pitch was coming.
Strike Four
Nah, the balls were admitted to be different, so it was both things.
Wonder if the Twins have anything on them, being that they broke the homer record…..
iml12
All the rumors seem to be connected to teams with Cora and Beltrán in the last 3 years. The supposed masterminds of the scam. So no, not all teams
darkstar61
“Wonder if the Twins have anything on them, being that they broke the homer record…..”
Marwin, you got some explaining to do
darkstar61
“All the rumors seem to be connected to teams with Cora and Beltrán in the last 3 years. The supposed masterminds of the scam. So no, not all teams”
The report actually says those two were not the masterminds, and instead came into it 2 months later to fine tune it.
The masterminds (players and stadium workers, per the report, plus possible FO/coaching personnel which MLB didnt want to mention in the report) are all currently employed by the Astros, as far as we know.
The report went out of it’s way not to tell us who actually devised the scheme, and instead only gave us the names of the two guys that happened to be running other clubhouses at this time, but came in late to the cheating per the report
Rudy Zolteck
You can still use wRC+ to remove how the balls would affect their play relative to everyone else (unless you’re a big launch angle guy, lol) and see they had career breakout years with the Yankees.
jleve618
Not the most outlandish thing I’ve heard today at least.
throwinched10
I don’t think it’s as complicated as people think. People are suggesting it is another player on the Astros. However, the dots seems to follow Beltran very closely with regards to this twitter account.
Jriv3ra17
As a big MLB fan, I am disgusted with whats going on with the game. The actions from the players who participated in cheating from the Astros and Redsox organizations should feel ashamed of themselves. These players are role models for my own child, other children and their own children. Their championship are not deserved and should be taking away from these organizations. As fans we should petition and get more involved with pressuring MLB to take action to remove the championship from the Astros and Red Sox to set the tone and to show our children that cheating is not the way of life.
John Luke
Buzzers = Apple Watches with no bands. Could easily slip one into a wrist band or something under the jersey. Cell connected Apple Watch, send a notification for each pitch. Easy peasy.
OUCH! my GoNats
Everyone’s just piling on now. To be fair, the Astros won 53 games on the road in 2017, five more than at home, and they discontinued the sign stealing in 2018 because it was ineffective. Didn’t they just become the first team in the history of professional sports to lose all four home games in a best of seven series?
Strike Four
@OUCH my Go Nats
QUESTION: is there any reason you are trying “to be fair” with a team who has been busted for being unfair to the game of baseball? If anything, we should be as unfair to the Trashtros as they were to us, the fans, which is extremely unfair. Even if Reddick had confetti there, he needs to prove it and even if he does, we should still call him a dirty cheater. That’s not fair, but its what he did to us.
The amount of times I’ve read “to be fair” in regards to a team of cheaters is blowing my mind.
OUCH! my GoNats
@Strike Four They were caught and heads have rolled, as it should be. But they’ve been a great team without cheating. Now people are just making up stuff.
Rudy Zolteck
He meant “to be fair” as in, using facts to bring some voice of reason to the argument while everyone thinks the Astros should get Black Sox treatment. Just because they stole some signs in 2017 (and this guy is correct when he says you don’t know how often or what the impact was), you have to investigate fairly or no one can take the league seriously. If you want a true verdict, you have to do it the right way.
jleve618
That spider analogy… The only thing I can do with what Scott Boras says anymore is laugh.
denistaylor
If you remember, Chapman had a crazy stunned smile on his face after the Altuve home run and later said that it was because he couldn’t believe Altuve had hit that pitch so well. So maybe if he knew it was coming…..
MoRivera 1999
And when asked Chapman said something like “Unbelievable” or “Incredible.” Astros fans say Chapman hung the pitch. Chapman doesn’t hang pitches. No way Altuve grabs a slider high and outside and PULLS it OUT OF THE PARK without knowing what’s coming. No way.
Rudy Zolteck
Every pitcher hangs pitches. Cole hangs, Verlander hangs, Severino hangs (and got burned for it in game 3), and so forth. Stop deluding yourself lol do you read what you type? Altuve had good reason to sit slider. And that was objectively a bad pitch.
MoRivera 1999
No way Altuve grabs a slider high and outside and PULLS it OUT OF THE PARK
goastros123
Watch a replay. That pitch was high and on the plate. According to ESPN.com, the location of that slider was in is a red zone for Altuve. Yes, way he grabs it and hits it for a home run,
MoRivera 1999
Watch Altuve run into the tunnel first thing after hitting a series-ending, game-winning HR while the entire rest of the team celebrates. ALL he cares about is 1) making sure teammates don’t tear off his shirt and 2) changing his shirt. Forget the euphoria anyone else would be overwhelmed with. Can’t explain that away. It’s obvious.
MoRivera 1999
and the little guy PULLS it OUT OF THE PARK!
goastros123
Doesn’t matter. That pitch was in a zone he likes. You damn right he can hit that for a home run. Most great hitters would if it was in a zone they like
Rudy Zolteck
I already broke it down for him and he’s not going to listen, save your time man. Lol.
Twinsfan333
Not that hard to believe given what we know. Especially looking at Altuve’s home/road splits in the playoff run. All that aside this is a serious hit to the integrity of the game and how many fans view and support it. Combine this with the upcoming work stoppage in a couple seasons a bad and sad time for MLB.
darkstar61
Beltran did not deny knowing the person, just saying that the person is “not part of the family”
Gary Sheffield Jr says that it’s not actually a niece, and instead a burner account for a MLB player
The account knew about both Beltran’s hiring and “resignation” well before anyone else did, indicating either a very close friend, or friend currently in the Mets organization
If it is a player, that might point to JD Davis. He was with Astros in 2017 and 2018, and with the Mets starting last season. Also roughly the same age as Sheffield Jr and they may know eachother.
The problem as I see it is how incomplete and rather convenient the MLB investigation is. It claims they somehow know players started it all, yet say they can’t figure out who is culpable to what level. It says the FO absolutely did not ask for it, so none of them are mentioned as involved, yet also says they didn’t look into Taubman. No coaches, other than Cora, are mentioned as involved at all either. In fact, the only two names mentioned both controlled other clubhouses at the time of the report, and therefore had the opportunity to orchestrate such actions with other teams if they felt emboldened by getting off from consequences regarding Houston. If a person is to come up with scapegoats in this situation, Cora and Beltran are the most logical to try to pin public perception on. Problem is, even the report says it didn’t originate with them and that they instead came into it two months in to fine tune it.
I personally feel as though MLB calculated what we were told, hoping to placate us with the scapegoats, in an attempt to contain the situation. We already know they are holding some things back however (the originating players, if nothing else.) Just how long it took place, how deep the conspiracy went (possible other coaches and FO personnel) and how advanced the actions were (like possible devices, as alleged) are the logical things they could be trying to hide.
This honestly feels like the steriod scandal all over again, with MLB doing as little as needed without letting us know just how bad it really was. Because of that, I, like many others, can’t just dismiss this allegation. And seeing as they wont even name the original masterminds, it’s understandably ugly with anger and accusations flying wild.
MLB is making a big mistake in trying to protect who is ultimately responsible, and having one or two megastars explicitly outed as the originator(s) is a much better situation than the one they are festering now.
Per what weve been told, and as things stand right now, everyone involved in orchestrating the original cheating is still currently employed by the Astros, as far as we know. How is that a thorough outcome in any way?
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
My money is on Robinson Chirinos who played with Beltran in Texas and was on last years Astros team. This Twitter account claims to have locker room photos of players wearing wires in 2019. Chirinos only played one season for the Astros in 2019.
There was also an article in late Nov 2019 that said the Mets were talking to Chirinos about possibly signing there. It was noted at that time that new manager Beltran wanted to bring him in. The dots seem to connect.
But yes, could be JD Davis too.
BlueJaysBeliever
Who would Manfred and the rest of the MLB be most apt to protect? Remember…. owners make the most money when their teams succeed and Houston hadn’t been doing so well prior to 2017.
They finished at the bottom of the NL in 2011 (same year Jim Crane bought the Astros) as well as in 2012. they finished dead last in the AL in 2013 (the year they switched leagues), and it wasn’t until 2015 when they advanced to the ALDS and lost to the Royals.
Who does Manfred answer to??? the owners of the teams. Imagine trying to discipline your boss. Aren’t you going to feel pressured to ensure they are protected and you blow this over as best as possible? Otherwise…. I don’t see a lot of job security for Mr. Manfred….
Boogaloo
Who care? If Houston isn’t winning, someone else is. What did he care who is winning? What they should care about is the overall state of the game.
And if he let’s this altuve garbage slide, he will do 100 times more damage to the sport.
darkstar61
I dont really believe it’s likely an owner would be involved. Could have been, but I don’t suspect so.
Instead, I just think the original masterminds were mega stars, and quite likely Altuve
He is already facing questions over the WS titles. At least in that case there is an argument to be had. If he has to admit the 2017 MVP cheated to get that individual accomplishment award though, there is not a logical argument in the world to let him keep it. And once one award is vacated, the arguments to let the others stand becomes even harder to make.
Plus, vacating awards makes a high profile permanent reminder mark in the record books about the scandle, where currently I’m sure he’s hoping this will be largely forgotten in a few years (as similar stuff was in other sports)
So I think Altuve is the name he would most likely want to protect at absolute all costs.
That said, what if he were just to have to suspend like 23 players, maybe 4 other coaches, and even a few FO personnel? If it was that deep and ingrained, that’s maybe what he’d feel the pressure would demand if he were truly open. How do you play the 2020 season with that situation?
washington_bonercats
This “niece” claimed to have pictures saved for “a rainy day”. The MLB better be damn certain there was no wearable buzzers or anything of the sort. The fallout that would occur if someone proves that there was wearable tech after the MLB said there wasn’t could be disastrous for the league…
canocorn
MLB didn’t say there weren’t any buzzers, it said they found no evidence of buzzers.
That’s lawyer-speak for “Ha ha, you can’t catch me, ha ha!”
Rallyshirt
Buzzing ladies underwear has been around for at least five or six years now. The technology is there.
BlueSkyLA
Um, dare we ask how you know this?
Rallyshirt
Well, let’s just say you won’t be able to find them at your typical department store.
BlueSkyLA
I think I will just have to take your word for that.
whyhayzee
Just get one of those big clunky things you get at Panera and stick it in your back pocket. Swing! Your sandwich’s ready.
AndyMeyer
“If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying”
Hall of Famer Joe Montana
MoRivera 1999
Per the low integrity wing of humanity.
2020vision
Change the darn signs already. If you can’t figure out that signs were created for a reason, you’re too dumb and lazy to prevent the signs from being stolen.
darkstar61
They were being stolen in real time.
You can’t change the signs between each pitch, especially since MLB now gets their panties in a bunch everytime anyone visits the mound.
There are also only so many signs you can give, and you are relying on athletic scholarship recipientsto be able to remember and keep them all straight.
That is a ton of responsibility on the victims instead of just doing anything and everything you can to stop the scumbag cheaters instead. Teams do what they can, but of course targeting the cheaters is the way you need to go
Now by all means, try to cheat the oldschool way if you like and can. But when teams are concocting elaborate conspiracies evolving stadium personnel and technology to work around the rules …well, I dont see how it isnt treated like steriods for any and every player caught (its actually much worse for the game than some guys using roids)
OUCH! my GoNats
I heard that when George Springer is home alone, he kicks his dog and listens to Justin Bieber. Must be true.
MoRivera 1999
Cheater apologist.
Rudy Zolteck
Dude he made a joke on the internet, chill out
MoRivera 1999
A joke with an agenda. A cheater apologist agenda.
Rudy Zolteck
I’m like 90% you just like your own comments and now I have to explain the joke to you and ruin it. He meant that you can’t just run with whatever someone online says about another person. I’m sure you knew that but like with the rest of this thread, you’re in complete denial.
MoRivera 1999
I guess I could say the same about you (or anyone else with likes?). Look up and down the thread. I have plenty of unliked comments. Many of them on replies to…YOU! So I guess you’re 90% non-observant.
As for the “joke” with an agenda, it’s the same kind of logic used by Astros to deflect the story when the cheating scandal first came out. That it’s just a rumor, even though there was good evidence from the get go. As with the Fiers evidence and YouTube video, here we have Altuve’s ridiculously suspicious behavior. And then possibly those tweets.
MoRivera 1999
Look up and down the thread. Most of my comments are unliked. Many of them on replies to you! But whatever.
As for the “joke” with an agenda, it’s the same kind of logic used by Astros fans to deflect the story when the cheating scandal first came out. The claim was that it was just a rumor, that thyere was nothing to see here. Even though there was good evidence from the get go. As with the Fiers evidence and the YouTube videos, here we have Altuve’s ridiculously suspicious behavior. And then possibly those tweets. Please don’t hold it against us if we don’t take an Astro fan’s word for it. There may very well be something to see here.
MoRivera 1999
Most of my comments here have not been liked. So whatever.
The “joke” evokes the same kind of logic used by Astros fans to deflect the story when the cheating scandal first came out. The argument was that the story coming out was just a rumor, even though there was good evidence from the get go. As with the Fiers evidence and YouTube video initially sloughed off by Astros fans, here we have Altuve’s ridiculously suspicious behavior. And then possibly those tweets. And maybe the alleged locker room pictures.
MoRivera 1999
The “joke” as you call it evokes the same kind of logic used by Astros fans to deflect the story when the cheating scandal first came out. The claim was that it was just a rumor, that there was nothing to see here. Even though there was good evidence from the get go. As with the Fiers evidence and the YouTube videos, here we have Altuve’s ridiculously suspicious behavior. And then possibly those tweets. And maybe some locker room photos. Please don’t hold it against us if we don’t take an Astro fan’s word for it. There may very well be something to see here.
thomasg2018
Watch the interview immediately after that game with Altuve and you will know why he did that.
MoRivera 1999
You believe the cheater or are you saying he sounds guilty? If the latter, I agree.
bigwestbaseball
MLB is a joke. They do not want to find anything.
Boogaloo
Not only is he desperate to not have his shirt ripped off.
But he’s the only guy on the team that runs into the tunnel to change into his ALCS Championship shirt.
Yeah, nothing strange there.
MLB has 2 choices, investigate again and ban him or lose millions of fans.
I love baseball but this would do it for me.
I didn’t care about the strike, I hardly cared about steroids.
This is so over the line. If they don’t investigate its because they don’t want to know what’s going on.
Only games I’ll watch next year will be when altuve plays the Yankees
goastros123
Or if they don’t investigate it’s because of the original source of this rumor about Altuve isn’t credible.
MoRivera 1999
Forget the source. Watch him run into the tunnel first thing after hitting a series-ending, game-winning HR while the entire rest of the team celebrates. Can’t explain that away on “a questionable source.” It’s obvious.
Boogaloo
So you care to explain altuves actions in a logical way Mr astro fan?
Talk about being blinded.
Three weeks ago you were saying they weren’t stealing signs at all, just reading the pitchers.
You don’t want to see the truth, which will come out. There is such anger at the Astros and altuve right now, not to mention to many players who know about it.
You really think they aren’t going to get to one of them?
Anyone caught lying for altuve will face a severe ban, let’s see how confident they are then.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol talking about being blind and then thinking that Altuve hitting a homer of Chapman *had* to be because of cheating. Pick one.
goastros123
1. Three weeks ago I was not saying they didn’t steal signs. 2. You could argue jumping all over Altuve because of something started by a now deleted twitter account is an example of being blind. 3. The truth is already out there and there is nothing anyone, myself included, can do about it. 4. Why should I offer a logical explaination if your comment about being blind fits you as well? To me, discredits what you just said.
Boogaloo
I asked you for a plausible explanation for altuves actions, you called me blind.
You couldn’t even give a logical explanation, I rest my case.
goastros123
You basically called me blind, even though that word logically fits you so there is no need to offer a logical explaination if you’re gonna trip over your own feet like that.
Rudy Zolteck
I left a long explanation elsewhere in the thread, under a comment by mo on how Altuve could figure out it was a slider based on simple baseball intuition. Seriously man, unless you just got cut from JV or something that pitch is not the hill you want to die on when accusing a great hitter of cheating. It was through and through a bad pitch. You are free to read what I said:
darkstar61
I honestly think it’s even worse than you make it seem
Not only is he desperate to not have his jersey ripped off, but he’s also about half-way down the 3b line when he starts freaking out about it, and goes as far as clutches his shirt buttons to ensure it doesnt happen.
Then, he doesn’t stop clutching those buttons during his brief time on the field after, instead running straight to the tunnel to change out of sight.
So while everyone else is celebrating his accomplishment, with them all changing on the field, hes hiding in the tunnel changing there instead.
Rosenthal does a fantastic job after, asking why he was worried about his shirt being ripped off. Altuve first asks for the question to be repeated, then smiles and fist says “I dont know” before finally coming up with the being shy line. Of course, if you check his Instagram, he has a bunch of shirtless photos of himself posted there
So it was very premeditated that he did not want that shirt ripped off, and his excuse both came in a suspicious way and is garbage when finally delivered, with all of at the expense of his moment.
The only question is what possible thing could he have been so desperate to hide? He is very, very clearly hiding something – so what?
A device is about the most logical possible explanation, if we are honest. What else even makes sense?
Rudy Zolteck
Then how come he has to tell the team not to do it? Wouldn’t it be agreed upon? Correa had his shirt ripped after his walkoff and there was nothing.
darkstar61
Silly question addressed elsewhere
Better question – why was the single most important thing on his mind after hitting the HR that sends his team to the WS was his jersey, and specifically not having it ripped off.
It fills his mind as hes running down the line. He clutches his buttons as if they are his last remaining bite of food in the world. He never let’s go of said buttons as long as teammates are around. Then he instantly disappears off the field to change while everyone else does so on the field, or merely puts the short over his jersey. 99.99% of the team celebrates his HR, with the guy who hit it being the one exception solely because he’s terrified his jersey will be removed on the field.
And dont tell me it’s because the guy who regularly posts topless photos of himself is deathly afraid to be seen topless to the point that it consumes his entire world and ruins the biggest moment in his life. That’s absolutely ridiculous (they also had shirts for him to put on. Even if the jersey was removed, were talking 1 to 2 minutes max in the middle of a chaotic dogpile where he’d be topless. No one would have ever really seen even if it happened. Still it consumed every thought he had? Get real)
There is a reason he was so completely paranoid about it, so what logical explanation can you think of? Can you think of even one?
Rudy Zolteck
Lol I never said it’s because of body image issues or his wife, in my opinion he was joking at the press conference, as he usually does about things. But I don’t know, maybe he just doesn’t want his shirt ripped off? I mean, I wouldn’t either. It’s not inconceivable to think maybe he wanted to give it to someone or do something else. And again, if the Astros were cleared of electronic sign stealing then what good would a buzzer do?
These are all good questions that are being used to jump to conclusions based off of some twitter account, one that said Rendon would go to the Nats and that Torres was doing the same thing. The buzzer rumor has existed since late November.
darkstar61
The only thing Altuve could come up with to explain the flat out paranoia he displayed over his jersey was he was “shy” …going as far as to give some nonsense about his wife that can not really be heard. (His wife is usually in the topless photos he posts of himself, btw, so that too was just an odd lie)
So I guess you’re admitting Altuve lied with that excuse, and instead assigning explanations which would not require any, let alone the level of paranoia expressed. (Although this lie wasnt in a press conference, so not sure why you are making up some excuse about thinking he was kidding to try in your effort to excuse him. Sure sounds like you don’t even know anything about the situation though, and are still deathly trying to defend anyway. Once again shows your motives for sticking your head so far in the ground tho)
And MLB has a vested interest in protecting Altuve specifically at all costs in this situation, and already spent a lot of time ignoring the blatant cheating by the team until forced into a corner where they absolutely couldn’t. The fact they haven’t said they didnt find evidence of it is as credible as how many times they looked the other way to flat out lied regarding steroid use. We dont know, and maybe never will unless MLB is forced to admit it …but we do know that Altuve flat out lied about his beyond paranoid reaction, that paranoid reaction has no logical explanations, and that paranoid reaction aligns perfectly with the accusations made
Altuve was trapped in an all consuming paranoia about his jersey being removed, and instead getting to the dugout as fast as he possibly could to change his shirt there instead of celebrating his moment with his teammates. He also lied about why he did it immediately after doing it. That we know for absolute fact. What we dont know is why he would express such paranoia and dishonesty, and it’s hard to come up with a logical reason
Rudy Zolteck
You’ve already convicted him of cheating though, so really idk how to argue. You’re setting me up as a punching bag for your argument by attempting to invalidate my argument through shame of being associated with Altuve. I didn’t even start getting into the weeds about the shirt until just now, and I clarified that there are other reasons to leave the field after the game. Greinke did the same and did his own thing. Not the same context, I know. And you are so set on your case that you fail to realize that “the MLB is trying to cover up greater wrongdoing by brushing it under the rug” is exactly what your opponents say with respect to other teams cheating. The consequences of not investigating (e.g. saving PR) are the same. So I don’t know if you are just unaware of your Ahab-esque argument that you project me of being or what.
And I don’t know if you’re the next Freud or something but I likewise didn’t say anything about his paranoia. Maybe you’re just a 200 IQ ascended individual that has some cosmic knowledge, but he could have just been making a bad joke. Joe Biagini does the same thing in his conferences as do all the other jokesters. You clearly have beef that makes you jump to conclusions, and that’s fine, but it’s when you start attacking anyone who doubts your conviction that you fall off the wagon. I don’t know psychology so I guess I’ll have to take a sec to formulate a response worthy of your large brain lol. Maybe dudes just don’t want their shirt taken off. Again, this is also predicated on Altuve needing a buzzer to hit that home run, which he certainly didn’t, as we’ve hammered into the ground a few times in this thread. The only objections to that come from Yankee homers who I assume got cut from JV. It’s also predicated on the Astros using video to receive signs, which the MLB said they didn’t. And it’s predicated on the MLB not investigating this issue properly as though it just came up, which is again factually incorrect because it’s been in the news in some form and under scrutiny by the MLB since late November.
AndyMeyer
“I hardly cared about steroids”
Yet this would do it for you?
Juiced up clowns like Sosa and McGwire who lied and stole the imaginations of young fans
Barry Bonds is still and will most likely always be credited with the most prestigious record in the sport?
And you hardly care???
Rudy Zolteck
Dude’s like “I care about the overall state of the game” like baseball didn’t get put in front of congress on TV looking like a cartel because of the sauce. Ridiculous.
AndyMeyer
@Boogaloo
“I hardly cared about steroids”
Yet this would do it for you?
Juiced up clowns like Sosa and McGwire who lied and stole the imaginations of young fans
Barry Bonds is still and will most likely always be credited with the most prestigious record in the sport?
And you hardly care???
Troy mcclure
Man if they did wear these things it’s banned for life vibes right ? This is just sad for the game
darkstar61
Yes
So how motivated do you believe MLB would be to truly find out? …or at least be forced to have to tell the public, as it’s possible they already know.
Boogaloo
Don’t you think the public already believes this?
Isn’t that much more damaging than covering up for someone everyone believes cheated the game?
I mean they banned the all time hit king for life, what altuve did is worse.
I could see them covering up something no one knew about but to let this just fester and say “nothing to see here, let’s play ball” seems like a good way to destroy your sport.
goastros123
1. Most people thought Beltran being fired was only a matter of time. 2. If you listen to Jose Altuve while the team is celebrating, he’s asking them to not rip off his jersery. Why would he tell them that if he was wearing an electronic device? They’re his teammates so they should already know and therefore he shouldn’t have to tell him. 3. You tried hard to discredit Altuve’s home run and failed. Who do you support? The Yankees. Who did the Astros beat in the 2019 ALCS, The Yankees, thanks to Altuve. Who is the subject of these rumors started by a now deleted anonymous twitter account? Altuve. What did that account also say that you conveniently ignored? Gleyber Torres wore an electronic device. Enough said.
Rudy Zolteck
Again, apples and oranges. The history with gambling in the MLB is why Pete got dismissed. His having a lot of hits has nothing to do with it.
Boogaloo
I’m a Phillies fan clown.
If you think I tried and “failed” take a look at the board.
The only ones defending this are ASTRO fans, enough said.
As for your pathetic last line of defense, “wouldn’t all his teammates know?”
I highly doubt when you are doing something that would get you a lifetime ban you’re going to let every guy on the team know about it.
Some guys are there for a few months, this was an inner circle type thing. I’m sure they didn’t trade for a guy and say hey guess what we do to cheat!
You keep fighting the good fight pal, the only one you are convincing is yourself.
The Astros make the Blacksox look like boyscouts.
You should be calling the Astros front office demanding to have those pennants torn down.
Disgrace.
Boogaloo
Clueless, of course it has alot to do with it.
You think a great player who gets in off field trouble is treated the same as a guy who is a bench player?
The Pete Rose saga was about the integrity of the game, same as here.
So if they went after the all time hit king, they’ll go after anyone.
darkstar61
1 – wasnt fired, resigned, as account said. No rumors of that. And no, no one thought the Mets would act so quickly (just hours before a Mets employee was on Twitter attacking the messenger to take attention away from the teams situation)
2 – you can see him screaming it and clutching the buttons half way down the 3b line. The single most important thing in the entire world to him upon hitting the ALCS winning HR is not having his jersey removed …because, supposedly he’s all of a sudden shy …despite those many shirtless photos he posts of himself. Going to WS, and the ONLY thing he can think of is his jersey possibly being removed and instead being the only person to leave the field to add his new shirt.
2b – they might not know if hes the only one doing it at that time. Or maybe he made a very public stance he wasnt going to anymore, but hid the fact he did. Who knows, and who cares, there is no way to know so not point talking about it – but he’s beyond desperate trying to hide something for some reason, and what that could be doesnt have many options at all. So what was he hiding in your mind? You honestly believe merely the chest he shows off regularly? That makes the least sense of any explanation
3 – you’re now lashing out to not have to answer questions and accept the fact which point to it as being at least fairly credible
Side note, wow did you ever edit that post hard and remove most of the silly things you said. The fact you had said them in the first place really highlights how much your argument is based off what you want to be the case though.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol “make the Black Sox look like boy scouts” like trying to get an edge by stealing signs with both unknown frequency and impact on the game is the same as colluding with the mob to throw the game for gambling purposes. And the point isn’t how famous he was. Again, gambling almost killed MLB. They had every reason to try to get him to fly right, and they had enough of it and banned him. He knew the consequences and that he would get banned. He denied it over and over and then changed his story to say he only did it in favor of his team. How is that credible? Was it an overreaction, maybe, but was the reasoning there, yes.
goastros123
1. Most people saw it coming it because he was part of the Astros during the 2017 season. People used common sense after seeing what happened with Hinch and Cora. 2 and 3: I can’t possibly see them not knowing about him wearing an eletronic device since they all knew about the cheating system from the 2017 season. Side note: I more often that not edit most of my comments on this site and similar sites. This isn’t about what I want to be true because because what I want to be true has no chance of happening. Whether or I like it not, the Astros cheated. Speaking of silly going off of an annonymous twitter account (which was deleted) that predicted something most people saw coming, said Gleyber Torres wore an electronic device which most people ignore, and predicted Rendon would go to the Mets while acting as if said account isn’t suspicious IS silly.
Troy mcclure
Bergman hitting home runs with a buzzer on then staring at the camera is pretty lame if true
Boogaloo
Anonymous tweeter says Beltran will be hired by Mets 2 days before its reported anywhere.
Same tweeter says Beltran will be fired 2 days before it happens.
Same tweeter said Astros players were admitting to cheating to Manfred 3 days before report came out.
Altuve hits home run to win ALCS, but his main concern is telling teammates to not rip his shirt off.
Altuve is given Championship shirt and is only player to run into tunnel to change into it.
The same tweeter says he was wearing buzzer, thus the reason he was so oddly concerned about his shirt being ripped off in a moment you would think that would be the last thing on his mind.
Yeah, NOTHING but an online rumor, lol.
What team do you root for?
Cause it appears you are the blind one.
goastros123
1. Most people could see Beltran being fired coming. 2. The fact that the tweeter is anonymous should be suspicious. 3. If you listen to them celebrating, he tells them why he doesn’t want them to rip his jersey off. Given the type of person he is, that reason why is not farfetched. 4. As Darkstar61 had already said, he was concerned about it even before he crossed home plate. 5. Why would he need to tell his teammates to not rip off his jersey if he was wearing a buzzer? Logically, you’d think they would already know due to being his teammates and therefore already know not to rip off his jersey. 6. You were wrong about Altuve being able to hit Chapman’s slider. After all, Jimmy Wynn was taller than Altuve but there is a reason why they called him the “Toy Cannon” and that’s because he had a ton of power for his size. A small guy can do what Altuve did if a slider hangs and ends up in a happy zone, assuming they got enough power in them and Altuve does. What team do you root for? The Yankees. Who did the Astros beat in the 2019 ALCS thanks to Altuve? The Yankees. You’ve been looking for any possible way/excuse to discredit Altuve’s home run off Chapman so it’s absolutely plausible you’d see something tweeted by mysterious twitter account that has been deleted, roll with it, and use that as an excuse to hate on Altuve. The blind one is you.
darkstar61
to 1 – he wasn’t fired, he “resigned” …just as that Twitter account said was about to happen (and there was no rumors of that anywhere. Wasn’t even rumors the Mets were going to act that fast on any decision, but whatever)
To 2 – Twitter account that is correct on predicting 2 major 2017 Astros related events, that is said by a named source that would be in a position to know, to be a burner account of a player (and a Twitter account Beltran did not deny knowing the owner of, just denying they were a family member.)
To 3 – his excuse is he’s shy …so explain the topless Instagram photos he posts regularly? And explain why he didnt just put the shirt over his jersey, as others did?
To 4 – how in the world can you explain his supposedly selective shyness being the single most important thing in the entire world to him upon hitting the HR that sends his club to the WS? Honestly? How is that even ever on his mind? And if that were the case, why not just say that instantly when asked instead of playing games over the question and first having to say he didnt know?
To 5 – it was 2 straight sliders Altuve saw, and he deemingly knew both were coming. Chapman is not that predictable. But yes, at least this point is the one single point you have that is easily open to argument
Oberall, it seems you really are reaching in an attempt to think what you want to think though, and the things you are saying dont make sense because of it. I dont know if he did it or not, but the evidence we have makes the accusation at least credible under the facts we know.
goastros123
1. Regardless of whether or not Beltran was fired or resigned, most people could accurately predict he was gonna leave or be removed from the position some how. 2. You’re literally going off an anonymous twitter account that was deleted. Whether there is something there or not, you can’t tell me logically speaking that account is not suspicious based on the fact that 1. it was anonymous and 2. the account was deleted. Even more so, you’re ignoring the fact that the account also said Gleyber Torres wore an eletronic device. 3. That’s not what I’m not talking about. Go listen to what he says during the actual celebration. 4. I never said anything about shyness. 5. I’ve seen a user on this very site who I’m 99% sure is a Yankees fan admit he saw Chapman’s slider coming and that it wasn’t a very good one.. 5. I’m reaching and not making sense? See point #2. That fits the description of reaching and not making sense. What you got going for you is that footage of him running off into the dug out to change rather than celebrate. However, as I already said, if he wearing a device why would he tell them to not to rip off his jersey? They’re his teammates so they should already know what he’s wearing and why they shouldn’t do it. I’m not saying you personally are reaching but I am saying going off a twitter account that is logically suspicious is kind of reaching.
Rudy Zolteck
None of those things are bombshells that no one ~predicted~ before they happened. It was the most logical conclusion that Beltran would join the Mets, and it was logical to assume he would get the axe. We already said that in this thread. That same account had Rendon to the Mets and the Yankees cheating, you believe those? The buzzers have been an accusation since late November and were included in the first MLB report. So no there are explanations, they just don’t involve the account being some truth-bomb-dropping oracle.
Rallyshirt
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the original guy who sent the video to the Athletic and its authors of the initial ensuing report keyed off a statement given by then Chicago White Sox relief pitcher Danny Farquhar. The Jomboy “BANG BANG” video which reached millions of viewers on YouTube showcases a pitch sequence from that game leading to Farquhar noticing the sound used to stealing signs with it.
In a postgame interview, Farquhar stated apx. “There was a loud sound which seemed to happen when I was changing to my slider”.
During the following season, in April, Farquhar mysteriously passes out in the dugout. He is rushed to a hospital and was diagnosed with a brain aneurysm which could’ve taken his life. His recovery and preparation to take the field eventually the next season was nothing short of a miracle.
I remember him stating as he was sent down to the minors, that he drove cross-country (probably to Camelback Ranch) for additional training, that he chose to retire as a player. The White Sox brought him on as a pitching coach with one of their minor affiliates.
Danny Farquhar, not Mike Fiers, is the real hero here. And I don’t see him mentioned anywhere. Why?
goastros123
Possibly because Fiers played for the team during the 2017 season so you could argue he’d have more knowledge of how they cheated.
Boogaloo
Because many players had accused the astros of cheating.
Farquhar wasn’t the first and there were guys after him.
Fiers was the only guy on the Astros to say they were cheating.
darkstar61
Because MLB didnt want to take it seriously until they had no choice, and that came when a player on the team detailed out exactly what they were doing in 2017 (which could then be verified by the public from watching video yourself and hearing the banging)
MLB is terrified of this whole situation and has to want to do as little as possible, especially if it explicitly involves Altuve. They would have no choice but to vacate the MVP award and at that point the scandle is both permanently, prominently in all record books, and it opens pandora box regarding other awards.
Rallyshirt
I’m working on the chronology. Fiers was on the Astros in 2017. Farquhar notices in 2017. Didn’t Fiers make his statements after he left the Astros?
goastros123
He did but having first hand knowledge of how they cheated helped verify the videos by Jomboy. Without Fiers, it’s just one player accusing a team and we’ve seen that before in sports.
Rallyshirt
I think it’s great that Fiers came clean and I wish other players followed suit, but I have to wonder if Farquhar’s statement contributed to the scare or had some impact on Fiers decision? From what I recall, a lot of talk about some new tactic Astros were using was out there but nobody noticed the Banging before Farquhar.
I just don’t think he’s getting the attention he deserves.
goastros123
What you’re saying isn’t wrong and we’ll have to see wait and see if other players follow suit. I personally think Fiers isn’t some hero, based on his player history which was pointed out earlier but that’s just me. I honestly think MLB is in a tough spot with this whole thing and that is thanks to Fiers.
Rudy Zolteck
Fiers waited for a couple years until he was on a division rival to bury his former team. He is a known hothead who nearly attacked AJ in the dugout, so aggressively that Carlos Gomez (ironically) had to restrain him. Collin McHugh’s wife said it herself that Fiers was pimping his testimony to everyone regardless of what other teams did it because of this personal vendetta. So yeah he did the right thing, but with several caveats, lol. Still accepted his championship too.
Rudy Zolteck
Fiers waited for a couple years until he was on a division rival to bury his former team. He is a known hothead who nearly attacked AJ in the dugout, so aggressively that Carlos Gomez (ironically) had to restrain him. Collin McHugh’s wife said it herself that Fiers was pimping his testimony to everyone regardless of what other teams did it because of this personal vendetta. So yeah he did the right thing, but with several caveats, lol. Still accepted his championship too.
Rallyshirt
Might sound idealistic, but where there’s a villain there’s a hero. I’m looking for him. Fiers, maybe. Manfred, getting colder. Farquhar, getting warmer.
Rudy Zolteck
Wish they would investigate evenly across the board and then Logan Morrison claims his throne haha
goastros123
If Manfred takes the championships from the Astros and Red Sox each, that can piss off both fanbases and cause ratings/attendance for games of both franchises go down leading to loss of profits. Likewise, if he doesn’t people can turn away from MLB en mass, leading to loss of profits. If he goes after the players he may have to deal with the MLPA in a way he doesn’t want to. To me, you can argue there is no clear cut villain and hero.
Rallyshirt
Okay, so the MLBPA steps up and does something to the accused players. Then the union is the hero, some franchises have to scurry and the fans and media are happy again. Questions, what can the MLBPA do? Do they have the power?
MoRivera 1999
@goastros123
“To me, you can argue there is no clear cut villain and hero.”
What?!! The obvious villains are the cheaters! Duh!
MoRivera 1999
@Rallyshirt
The players need to be suspended 30 days and fined the amount of their WS shares. No, the MLBPA can’t do that.
goastros123
M04ever, to you sure. You can also argue that MLB is in a tough spot right now and who put it there? Mike Fiers so he is the villain. It all depends on how you look at it.
BlueSkyLA
The person who told the truth could be the villain, and maybe not the cheaters he ratted out. It’s all how you look at it. Honesty and integrity might be a bad thing. I mean, who’s to say?
goastros123
The person who told the truth can easily be the villain if he told the truth for reasons like revenge or to spite some one or something. Fiers is not this great hero. He’s not a saint. Look at his history of as a member of the Astros. He wanted to kick AJ Hinch’s ass because he got pulled out of a game and Carlos Gomez had to hold him back. Yeah, what a saint. What a hero.
Rudy Zolteck
You clearly didn’t read what he said and you’re trying to make him look bad by playing ignorant. Fiers is a hothead who has a vested emotional interest in making the Astros look bad regardless of what knowledge or suspicion he has of other teams. So out of all the teams cheating he exposes only the Astros. That is lying by omission. And that doesn’t even get into the reasons he did it. He had to get pulled away from AJ by Carlos Gomez (of all people) in 2016 because he didn’t agree with getting pulled. I expect this level of middle school sarcasm from a Dodger fan though.
goastros123
According to McHugh’s wife, Fiers was pimpinng out the knowledge of how they cheated, telling any one who’d listen. Even a former player like Latroy Hawkins thinks he lacks integrity for doing it after he reaped the benefits instead of doing it while he played for the team. He called Fiers a snitch. If Fiers has integrity, lets see him give up his championship ring.
BlueSkyLA
Cynicism is not a response to truth and it does not refute a single fact. All it does is give you a rationalization for not accepting the truth. Nobody has to be a “saint” or a “hero” to speak the truth, they simply have to speak the truth. That is the thing of value and importance here. Only in the twisted, cynical world some people create in their own heads is it any other way.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol Dodger fans be like “truth is transcendental and we shouldn’t be cynical” then beat up Giants fans in the parking lot. I did say he told the truth big guy. But if he tells only part of it, that’s a problem, and it’s another problem when it comes from him because of his previous history with the manager, and that’s because it casts doubt on his ability to be a 100% rational actor. Do we need to have a course in rhetoric?
goastros123
If you’re talking to me, Bluesky, I’ve already accepted the truth that the Astros cheated and I’m not trying refute anything. You don’t have to be a saint or hero to speak the truth but on a topic about who is the hero, villain, etc in this whole thing, there was nothing with what I said about it depending on how you look at it.
BlueSkyLA
Yep, I was responding to your use of the saint/hero argument. I call this a cynical argument because it seem to be an effort to make a person’s motives for telling the truth out to be more important than the truth they revealed. The truth is the truth, no matter who tells it. A lie is a lie, no matter who tells it. Bringing in motives only clouds the fundamental issues that came to light as a result. Fiers might kick his dog, for all I know. It doesn’t matter one way or another. Either way he’s the only one who spoke up to reveal the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years. That was an important thing to have done. Whether you like him or not for that or anything else isn’t important.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol this dude said biggest scandal in 100 years, ooookay. Slept right through the PED era I’m guessing. MLBTR dudes love hyperbole though so what do you expect I guess.
And kicking his dog is not the same in this situation as having a personal vendetta with the manager of the Astros because the latter is directly tied to the situation and presents a conflict of interest. Again, you completely missed the point. And again, truth that omits some stuff because this vendetta gets in the way should not be considered the ultimate authority because it’s not the whole truth. To do that, you have to give credence to what Logan Morrison and the other guys said. This is inconvenient for the MLB to do, but I don’t think the MLB cares about absolute truth if you see the way they’ve acted in the past. So frankly, it’s consistent. But every time we try to make a logical response to you you’re just like “durr I don’t care if he kicks dogs” trying to derail the real message we’re trying to send you.
MoRivera 1999
Mike Fiers is not the villain. He’s the only one who told the truth. You can question his motives all you want but he told the truth. MLB is in the tough spot because they failed to investigate in 2017 when they first got complaints. They failed to enforce their own edict when they got complaints in 2018.
Rudy Zolteck
I wasn’t the guy bringing up heroes and villains in the first place.
goastros123
Rallyshirts brought up heroes and villains and all I said was I don’t think it’s black and white who is the villain and who the hero is. There’s nothing wrong with that. Yes, you can argue Fiers is a villain because it’s entirely possible his motives involved revenge. That is where Fiers motivations come into play. Why? Because on the subtopic started by Rallyshirts, you can legitimately argue there is no hero and heroes don’t act out because of revenge. Yes, on the subtopic started by Rallyshirts whether or nor Fiers’s motives are questionable DOES matter. I never said integrity and honesty is bad but you decided to come at me with that nonsense. Your latest comment, Bluesky, doesn’t change what I’m saying right now. There was nothing wrong with my reply to Rallyshirts. If you disagree then more power to you. I did not say nor imply honesty and itegrity is bad so don’t come at me with that nonense.
goastros123
Mo4ever, they’ve could’ve investigated it right away and it’d still be a giant mess. You’d still have people who are unhappy regardless of the decision from Manfred because either he doesn’t meet their expectations or he pisses off a fanbase who turns away, leading to loss of profits. The difference now if he gives in to those expectations, he might piss off not one but two fanbases, which could very well lead to a bigger loss of profits. You can talk about the truth and how Fiers told the truth all you want but this is not a good spot for MLB and MLB was going to be in this spot regardless of when they decide to investigate, unless they don’t investigate. In a way, Fiers forced them to investigate.
BlueSkyLA
@mo4ever. This is the uncomplicated point I’ve made several times now. For those who are resistant to it I wouldn’t count on it being understood or accepted no matter how often it’s repeated. Cynicism is the order of the day. Some believe that as long as you can question why someone did the right thing, you can argue that they didn’t do the right thing, or maybe it would have been better if the bad things going on were left unreported. The people who make this cynical argument are understandably defensive about it. The way to not be defensive about it is to not make it in the first place. It isn’t difficult to locate the principled place to be on this issue, but some still seem to be having a very difficult time finding it.
AndyMeyer
Cheating is baseball’s oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it
Thomas Boswell
jonesadoug
All players involved should be suspended for a year. its obvious they were getting the pitches tipped to them one way or another. Pete Rose steroids the black Sox scandal combined was less than this cheating. Sorry no HOF for Altuve or any others of that team
AndyMeyer
All those combined?
Tell that to Shoeless Joe, the fans who were lied to by Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, A-Rod and to Pete Rose
Rudy Zolteck
Okay guy, trying to get a competitive advantage by stealing a few signs (with unknown frequency and impact) or doing juice is worse than colluding with the NYC Jewish mob and a gambling ring leader to throw the game and reap the gambling reward. Let’s take some deep breaths.
MoRivera 1999
If it wasn’t working they wouldn’t have gone to such lengths for so long.
Rudy Zolteck
Lol same could be said about the juice you want to sweep under the rug buddy. I used numbers to show you they didn’t really stand to gain much from it. The Yankees home-road split in the 2017 postseason was even more extreme than the Astros. So if that’s a piece of evidence in your fight, enforce it evenly.
MLB already offered an explanation that Cora and Beltran wanted to pilot this system and didn’t necessarily know how much it would work at the time. This also explains why after they left the culture simply regressed back to the norm. 2019 offers pretty good support because their offense was still good. That suggests that they didn’t go from zeroes to heroes with this system.
Chris L
Astros fan here. Altuve is my favorite player. Full disclosure.
I have no problem with good ol’ fashioned sign stealing by a runner on second base. I’m not cool with electronic sign stealing. I hate that the Astros employed it with the trash can banging. I believe the penalties and firings were fully deserved. And yet, I also suspect that many more teams than just the the Astros and Red Sox were using electronic means to steal signs. Other things that don’t sit well with me: steroids and pine tar on the brims of pitchers’ caps.
That said, I think several points regarding Altuve and his jersey getting ripped off are worth noting.
First, earlier in 2019, Altuve’s teammates ripped off his shirt after a walk-off walk against the A’s:
mlb.com/video/altuve-s-walk-off-walk
Altuve was obviously less than thrilled about his shirt getting ripped off then and I recall Astros’ TV reporter Julia Morales mentioning a few days later that his wife though it was embarrassing for the Astros to celebrate that way. It’s not that Altuve is embarrassed because he has love handles like some of us non-professional athletes — he doesn’t, to put it mildly! — but he and the missus didn’t like the celebration.
In addition, it’s worth noting that when Altuve’s shirt was ripped off following the regular season walk off, there doesn’t appear to be any sign of a wearable device.
Second, multiple posters have suggested that it is suspicious that Altuve ran off the field immediately after his Game 7 walk-off home run against the Yankees. But in doing so, their timetable is objectively wrong. Video is available of the entire ninth inning:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_skJNxOCQ
Altuve crosses home plate at 28:34 on that video. Contrary to what’s been asserted, he doesn’t run straight into the dugout though; rather, he is involved in the on-field celebrations with his teammates, with numerous hugs and hand shakes in the video, until he steps into the dugout at 28:44, more than two minutes later.
Maybe the dude had to go take a leak?
And, if the hypothesis is that Altuve had to disappear into the tunnel to change his shirt out of the public eye because of a wearable device, couldn’t he have just as easily done what many players do — don his champions’ t-shirt on the field over his jersey?
angt222
For those who think the Dodgers should be named WS champs for the ‘17-‘18 seasons because the Astros cheated, then runner ups to major awards should be awarded accordingly if the ‘winner’ was found to have used PEDs. (Ex: 2003 AL MVP should go to C. Delgado since Arod admitted to taking steroids that year).