Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced an unprecedented level of discipline against the Astros organization Monday in the wake of the sign-stealing scandal that many feel has called into question the legitimacy of their 2017 World Series victory. President of baseball operations/general manager Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch will both be suspended, without pay, for one year — beginning today and running through Jan. 13, 2021.
[RELATED: Astros Fire Jeff Luhnow, A.J. Hinch]
The Astros will also lose their first- and second-round picks in each of the next two seasons and be fined the maximum $5MM that is allowable under the league’s constitution. If the team does not have a first- or second-round selection in either draft — due to draft forfeitures for signing a free agent, for instance — they’ll lose that pick in the subsequent year’s draft. Per Manfred’s report on the investigation, the Astros “will forfeit two regular first round selections and two regular second round selections in total,” whether they come in 2020-21 or in later seasons.
Punishment stemming from the 2017 sign-stealing scandal won’t stop with the Astros organization, either. ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports that “harsh” punishment will be levied against Red Sox manager Alex Cora as well for the role he played in the now-infamous “trash can” setup. Cora was the Astros’ bench coach at the time but was hired by the Red Sox in the 2017-18 offseason, and Manfred’s report leaves little doubt that he’ll be sanctioned heavily.
Manfred’s report outlines the role that Luhnow, Hinch, Cora and the Astros’ players had not only in the trash-can scheme but also in improperly utilizing the reply review room to decode opponents’ signs. Manfred’s report also explains the rationale for the punishment (or, in Cora’s case, the surely forthcoming punishment).
Beginning with Luhnow, Manfred details that the president/GM was “adamant” in denying knowledge of the ongoing sign-stealing scheme. However, the report cites “both documentary and testimonial evidence” which indicates that Luhnow had “some” knowledge of the operation but “did not give it much attention.” Manfred makes clear that he holds Luhnow accountable for the action of all employees, both in the front office and in the dugout, and he goes out of his way to explain that Luhnow largely neglected the memo sent out by the Commissioner’s Office regarding further disciplinary measures for improper use of technology:
Luhnow did not forward the memoranda and did not confirm that the players and field staff were in compliance with MLB rules and the memoranda. Had Luhnow taken those steps in September 2017, it is clear to me that the Astros would have ceased both sign-stealing schemes at that time.
Manfred’s report goes on to suggest that under Luhnow, the Astros’ baseball operations department has developed a “problematic” and “insular” culture that has lacked “sufficient oversight” — all of which is reflected in Luhnow’s punishment:
[W]hile no one can dispute that Luhnow’s baseball operations department is an industry leader in its analytics, it is very clear to me that the culture of the baseball operations department, manifesting itself in the way its employees are treated, its relations with other Clubs, and its relations with the media and external stakeholders, has been very problematic. At least in my view, the baseball operations department’s insular culture – one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations, combined with a staff of individuals who often lacked direction or sufficient oversight, led, at least in part,to the Brandon Taubman incident, the Club’s admittedly inappropriate and inaccurate response to that incident, and finally, to an environment that allowed the conduct described in this report to have occurred.
As far as Hinch is concerned, Manfred indicates in his report that the manager was aware but not supportive of the trash-can system. That system, it seems, was largely put into place by Cora and newly hired Mets skipper Carlos Beltran. Hinch, according to the league’s investigation, actually expressed frustration with the operation and damaged the hallway monitor to the point of needing replacement on two occasions, but he also never brought the issue to the attention of Luhnow or anyone in the Commissioner’s Office. “As the person with responsibility for managing his players and coaches, there simply is no justification for Hinch’s failure to act,” the report reads.
Furthermore, the report leaves little doubt that harsh punishment indeed is nigh for Cora. Manfred indicates that it was Cora who “arranged for a video room technician to install a monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros’ dugout.” Says Manfred of the impending discipline for Cora:
Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager.
As for the players themselves, the Commissioner’s Office will not be seeking out punishment against them. That seemingly includes Beltran, who is being treated as a player (as he was in ’17) rather than his newfound role as a Major League manager. Manfred explains that in 2017, he made the decision that he “would hold a Club’s General Manager and Field Manager accountable for misconduct of this kind” and has no plans to deviate from that line of thinking. He’s also clear to note that multiple players acknowledged they were keenly aware that they were crossing a line and would have stopped had Hinch or another authority figure cracked down on the behavior — a reality that surely factored into the decision to suspend Hinch.
As for owner Jim Crane, the report indicates that he was “unaware” of any wrongdoing and will not face punishment outside of the reported $5MM fine and loss of two years’ worth of first- and second-round draft selections.
Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic first reported the news.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Wow Astros got served, Manfred laying down the hammer!
herecomethephillies2018
Alex Cora is sweating bullets right now…
qbass187
No doubt
pasha2k
All I can say, n I love Cora, he is very stupid.
Dogbone
Whaddya expect, him and Ozzie are tight.
StlSwifty
Pete rose bet on his own team to win and was banned for life. The 1919 white Sox banned 8 players for intentionally losing a World Series. The Astros, and possibly the Red Sox, literally cheated their ways to WS championships and got one year suspensions, and just the managers none the less. this punishment will go down as an absolute joke in the history books. At least let Pete into the HOF.
Gasu1
He bet on his team to win games THAT HE WAS MANAGING. In other words, if his team was down by three runs in the ninth in a game he had bet on, he had his own personal incentive to put his bullpen ace in, to increase his chances of winning that specific game specifically; even though using that ace then would make him unavailable for the next day’s game. So, no, betting on a game that you manage, which can actually lead you to decrease your team’s season record, gets you a lifetime ban. It’s far worse than cheating.
AtlSoxFan
Let’s go Varitek, new manager of the red sox!
cdr9er
Yeah I’m good with that
Buck Jones
An interesting thought is Jason still in the Sox organisation? Great guy.
SDHotDawg
Reggie Bars = racist.
dazhk
Dude WTF?!?!
pasha2k
I would love Teck to be manager, Cora is gone.
FrostyPucker
I’m on board.
windycitykid89
Alex Cora is gonna get punished very badly, especially since he was deemed the mastermind of the 2017 Astros scandal, only to now be investigated for the 2018 Red Sox doing the same thing, albeit not as severely as the Astros.
holycowdude
lifetime ban coming for Cora
MLBTRS
I don’t think you actually believe that…
Buck Jones
I do, if he is found to be the primary instigator of the Red Sox scandal as well,
bippy boy
I bet he’s managed his last game !
holycowdude
I very much believe it. Manfred made an example out of John Coppolella (Braves) with a lifetime ban for illegal international signings. I think Manfred will set a similar precedent in this case, as he should. This is his one and only chance to lay down the “never again” hammer, and i think he will. All signs are pointimg to Cora being the mastermind behind the whole operation, and he’s now tainted TWO teams with this mess. And I liked Cora a lot before all of this, but if proven guilty in HOU and BOS, i think a ban is warranted..and forthcoming.
DocBB
I think he already knows he’s getting fired by the Red Sox and/or likely Perm based by MNLB.
Dexxter
He knows what’s coming.
If he gets any less than the same one year suspension I would be shocked.
Whodoirootfor
Should have been a lot more than that bogus crap
paddyo furnichuh
Would you still be displeased if it involved quartering?
MoRivera 1999
The players absolutely should have at least been fined. Every single one of them participated in some fashion, even if it was simply to condone and look the other way. I guarantee the fierce competitors were using it.
goastros123
I was beginning to think you wouldn’t show up. Guess what: I told you so.
thatsright
How about MLB knowing about this type of cheating for decades and doing nothing about it until last year? Sounds like the same type of insular culture they condemn. It’s not the first offense either (PEDs). Man Fred should resign as soon as he eviscerates Cora. For shame!!
l9ydodger
Really? What should’ve happened is, any coaches and players directly involved should be suspended without pay for 1 year! Forfeit the 2017 season, including the World Series.
Dodgers don’t win it but, neither do the Astros.
Their 2017 season is a blank! And any other season if proven they cheated!
Tired of millionaires & billionaires getting away with whatever they want to do & only getting their hands slapped!!
sf
Exactly!
tigerd7335
Actually I feel they should be stripped on their championship and all that other suspensions and fines
Buck Jones
Too complicated, once the players feel the punishment the union steps in and makes sure they keep their rings and bonuses, so it is not that easy to write off a championship.
paddyo furnichuh
It sounded like there was no evidence of the cheating in playoffs. The added coverage that would likely detect the cheating likely deterred that activity, or they adjusted the scheme.
Also, knee-jerk reactions of fans typically agree with the results of thorough investigations.
live42day
It was stated in the report that the Astros and every team were warned in September of 2017 and also that the Astros continued to use the sign stealing system in the 2017 playoffs and the 2018 regular season.
paddyo furnichuh
I did not see the part of it happening in the playoffs. If that is the case, bring on the internet horde with their torches and reactionary ways.
teufelshunde4
At minimum Lunhow & Hinch should be out of jobs. Responsibility to end the cheating was theirs, they refused to act.
Taubman gets a ban, but not Lunhow? Interesting
sacball
Taubman gets a one year ban because he is not currently employed
Buck Jones
Of course, they will be out of jobs, no way does Crane sit on his hands and wait for the suspensions to end..Luhnow and Hinch are history as far as being Astro employees is concerned, Crane will be searching for his new guys as we speak.
Buck Jones
Of course they are out of jobs, the baseball world is not going to stop working because two guys got banned for a year. Their contracts will be voided and a new GM and field manager installed by opening day..Although the owner is tagged with a standard 5M fine, he did nothing wrong himself..
Dag Gummit
As we see in the new post/ story following your comment about their firings.
To me, this softens the punishment on the team and ownership too much in a
MLB: “Hah! You lose draft picks, current manager and GM for two years!”
Astros ownership: “So… we’ll just fire ‘the current manager and GM’ and replace them”
MLB: “Wait…”
I just feel like there should be more put upon the ownership for their complicitness, as well. Normally, I’d say something along the lines of fines equivalent to some factor of Hinch’s and Luhnow’s salaries + the slot values of those draft picks. However, it seems that fines are hard-capped at $5MM — pennance to team owners.
jk
just curious, will they be allowed or want to hire a gm or coach for a year?
goastros123
JK, probably not.
jk
thank you
Dogbone
I hope Beltran gets suspended big time, also.
jk
I would think both would be terminated from employment.
MLBTRS
Of course they can hire whomever they wish – the actual operation of the team is not addressed. It’s about existing personnel and the team owner or whoever is next in command can make whatever moves they want. If a player is suspended, it’s not as if they can’t sign another player.
whynot 2
If you bothered to read you would have noticed, it is clearly started, since Beltran was a player he won’t be punished.
jk
Crane just answered my question lol
Boogaloo
Beltran can’t be suspended.
live42day
Players are not held accountable and Beltran was a player at the time. He will not be suspended
Buck Jones
It still won’t look good to his new employers in New York in his rookie manager year..
Mendoza Line 215
Beltran may not be suspended but he should be fired by the Mets if he is proven to be a key figure in this mess.A cheater is a cheater.
Dag Gummit
I admit I’m not a fan of no punishment for Beltran. While I believe that he shouldn’t be held as accountable as field and upper management, he should still be held accountable to some extent as one of the leaders of the scheme.
Something in the realm of 15-25-ish game suspension + hefty fine (comparable to 2 months whatever his salary was at the time), maybe.
lsujedi
Cry about it. We’re the champs. Forever.
Buck Jones
With a massive asterisk*
Vin Scully
And forever you will have to argue with knowledgeable fans defending your cheating team’s tainted championship. Choke on it.
jk
Sure. What’s sad is that you endured 5 losing seasons to achieve this goal that is now tainted.
lsujedi
First of all, lol at ‘taint’. Second, those three seasons were very entertaining. It was like watching someone play MLB the show franchise mode in real life.
SDHotDawg
The Astros had a winning seaso in Luhnow’s FOURTH season, losing the ALDS.
Just for clarification.
jk
2009 to 2014 were all below.500.
SDHotDawg
Luhnow’s first season was 2012. They were winning in 2015.
Mendoza Line 215
The 2017 Astros will be forever known as cheaters in the same vein as the 1919 White Sox were.
Nothing to be proud of.
Gasu1
The 1919 White Sox were not cheaters. They took bribes from gamblers and threw games.
SDHotDawg
Gasu1 … I hope you were being sarcastic. If not, you must work for MSNBC with that level of common sense and logic.
Mendoza Line 215
Gas-They were cheaters in a different respect in that they cheated baseball fans out of an honest World Series and made it a sham.
My point was that this is a significantly bad thing to do.All involved in creating this farce should be severely punished.At the very least the hitters who took advantage of it or especially if they took part in it should be named if not punished.
RunDMC
Coppy would really love that kind of punishment. I’m guessing he got the lifetime because of not cooperating with the investigation, while so brazen in his attempts and trying to cover-up.
todd76
Manfred needs fired. These guys all should’ve got lifetime bans just like Coppollela.
DarkSide830
Coppollela went well beyond a league integrity issue. he was engaging in unsactioned deal with a load of minors.
delete
Coppollela cheated with prospects in the hope of maybe someday winning a world series. The Astros successfully cheated their way to a world series. Coppollelas offense was only punished worse because he insulted Manfred personally by not cooperating. The Astros absolutely should have had the worse penalties
Bruin1012
You know everybody better be careful what they wish for no way it was just Houston. Cora is going to get a severe punishment to but highly doubt these were the only two teams doing this. Wonder what people are going to say when it’s their favorite team that is caught up in the sign stealing scandal.
Vin Scully
I wouldn’t care. Cheaters should get lifetime bans. Including the players.
RunDMC
Coppy got what he deserved, but it was a systemic problem and because he was so blatant, careless and brazen with his disregard, he was an easy scapegoat to serve to the dark lords of unwritten rules.
To see John Hart on MLB Network speak like a wayward puritan with no knowledge of anything makes me want to endure ESPN.
MoRivera 1999
The “everybody does it” defense. Well, not the ones who aren’t convicted. If it’s my team I’ll be as pissed at them as I am at the Stros and Sox, though the Stros and Sox defrauded us with fraudulent WS victories. I believe dynamite drop, a Sox fan, was incredibly pissed at them. Unlike the rest of the RS fans. Interestingly, many RS fans were defending the Stros and/or sign stealing–or at least playing it down–before the other shoe dropped on them. Interesting foreshadowing indeed.
goastros123
Jose Altuve didn’t help to see that flat slider coming from Chapman. Most great hitters would’ve seen it coming from a mile away, especially ones with three batting titles. As for 2017, Yankees were shut down at Minute Maid.
nymetsking
Vin- so every player who’s scuffed a ball or corked a bat should be banned? They’re cheaters too.
Reggie Bars
Calm down, nobody should be getting a lifetime ban. And no titles should be vacated. It’s all in the books; we can’t change what has already happened. Cheating goes on within every organization and every sport. All you can do is hand down punishments and move on.
Dag Gummit
And refusing to cooperate in an investigation is itself a crime (obstruction of justice) regularly deemed worthy of heavy punishment in legal contexts. That’s not merely a personal insult. It is “refusing to cooperate with an investigation”
mistry gm
Yep, it’s called cheating and it should ALWAYS be punished as it ruins sports. Now how many of you still want Bonds, Clemens and the rest of the steroid users in the Hall of Fame?…. NOT ME!
goastros123
I want the MLB HOF to be consistent and it already has a few cheaters in it so either let Bonds and Co. in or take cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Pud Galvin out.
MoRivera 1999
And Thome and Bagwell. I agree with your overall point there goastros123. Take the cheaters out or let them in.
goastros123
There’s no way in hell they’re taking any one out so they might as well induct Bonds and co.
Buck Jones
Really? Yet Roger and Barry never broke any ML rules, but still the lynch mob writers and guys like you would leave them out of the HOF.forever… Utter BS.
Vin Scully
Barry cheated and will never be in the HOF. Choke on it.
Reggie Bars
Barry will absolutely be in the Hall someday. He should already be in, obviously. The majority of players were using PEDs during the time he played. They were using them at least as far back as the 70s, as Tom House has told us. And many of those 50s and 60s HOFers were on greenies.
DonB34
“Roger and Barry never broke ML rules”…….. yeah, but anabolic steroids are illegal in the United States, so they broke the LAW, which supersedes. It probably doesn’t say anywhere in the ML rules that you can’t bring a gun onto the field and shoot a player as he rounds third base to score a winning run, but I think it’s understood that is not legal under US law.
Lanidrac
Steroids and many other PEDs like HGH have been officially against MLB rules since the early 90’s if not earlier. Roger and Barry DID break the rules. They just weren’t enforced at the time.
I agree that the character clause is a joke as long as cheaters like Perry and all the known amphetamine users and huge jerks remain in the Hall. Just let all the cheaters save for those specifically banned (Rose, Jackson, etc.) in the Hall for uniformity’s sake.
However, I also want uniformity in how the PED users are treated. While I ultimately want all the deserving ones enshrined, I also don’t want to see Bonds or Clemens elected until the Era Committees elect McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc.
Dag Gummit
You’re right, though, as hard as it may seem to be to believe, even your statement might be under-telling it some. Crazy thing is that the use of greenies (amphetamines) go back to the 1940s (when the vets from the German front came back with them). Chances are that almost all players, HOFers included, from the 50s-70s were users of them to some degree. And users wouldn’t have been limited to MLB. It would have been all pro sports and Hollywood (and almost certainly elite business circles as well). Amphetamines are still widely used and abused around the league. ~1/3 of all MLB players have medical exemption for “ADHD” (Note: while ADHD is indeed a medical concern that needs chemical assistance to control for many people and even some elite athletes, it’s not 1/3 of MLB players).
OtisSnord
Yeah, the fact that they were committing federal felonies does seem kinda relevant.
longpantslow
Totally! Cora is next. Don’t chat & don’t bet. Thems the rules.
longpantslow
Cheat
Buck Jones
C’mon now, nothing wrong with a nice chat.. lol
NatsFan15
Eh. Name a team that wouldn’t trade four draft picks and $5M for a championship.
MoRivera 1999
Exactly. Piss poor excuse for a punishment. Players should have been fined the amount of their championship shares. Minimum.
NatsFan15
Has a known/admitted cheater ever been spared like this before? Imagine Cashman and Girardi being suspended for ARod & Pettite (& Clemens).
I can’t believe the guys who actually cheated face zero repercussions.
Reggie Bars
Yeah, just wait until you guys find out that there are many more than just 2 teams doing this, which there undoubtedly are. Save some of your outrage for all the others yet to be caught.
powered by balco
Damn…
deweybelongsinthehall
What about the Red Sox? I realize the allegations from 2918 just came to light but I was expecting both to be resolved together. If the allegations are true, Cora deserves a suspension as well (based on what I’ve since read). I maybe a Sox fan but all fans and the sport deserve better especially with the explosion of fantasy and spirts betting.
puddles
Wonder if the Red Sox thing is why Cora’s punishment hasn’t been announced. Could be that they will wait to announce his punishment until they know what happened in Boston and give it all at once. No reason to hold up the punishments in the Astros process if that matter is closed (and actually in fairness you should announce as soon as possible so that they can start working on contingencies)
whynot 2
Don’t you people read before posting. All that info is right there, it’s a very quick read
Buck Jones
Manfred has stated that Cora’s punishment is held back until he finds out how involved he was with the Red Sox case..
Steven Juris
Cora will be gone for at least 2 years.
keysox
No loss should be banned for life
deweybelongsinthehall
Could end up being lifetime if ownership knew nothing of the video situation. I can see the Sox moving on from Cora after MLB’s discipline is announced. Cheating twice in two years after 2017 watchgate? Chutzpa.
Buck Jones
Plus a WS won in both cases, Cora will be banned sine die if he proves to have instigated the Red Sox scandal as well..
delete
Nice penalties but it is not an effective deterrent unless the players get severe penalties too. World Series should have been stripped too
jonnyzuck
I can’t see an organization allowing this to happen in the future seeing these penalties
jkim319
Agree … the qty and severity of the penalties are absolutely enough to get a manager or GM to say ‘no’… seems very appropriate
delete
Why not??? They got the only thing that matters to them. World series gold and the money that comes with it
jbigz12
You aren’t going to win too many World Series when you don’t have 1st and 2nd round picks, your manager, and your GM. This will be a huge deterrent to cheating. Don’t see how anyone could think otherwise.
sf
Agree. Vacate the championships. Don’t cheat!
delete
They already won the world series in case you missed it. They got the benefit of their cheating.
letmeclearmythroat74
It will forever be tarnished by this … an asterisk is in order …
delete
In case you didn’t know this the only purpose of having prospects drafted in the first and second round is to win the World Series. The Astros got to trade a few first and second round draft picks for a World Series title. Absolutely any team would make that trade
jbigz12
And their GM and the manager…..AKA all organizational stability. This Astros team is still a WS contender today. Not to mention just how difficult it will be to cheat in this manner ever again even if you wanted to. If you were hoping for a lifetime ban—-then I guess you’re disappointed. If you were being a realist, this is a very steep punishment. One that should dissuade teams from cheating.
teufelshunde4
A championship that is now tarnished. Looks unearned. No not every team would do that. There are people who’s integrity isnt for sale..
Nuggethoarder
Stealing signs does not guarantee a World Series title. It certainly helps, but the degree to which it helps depends on your current talent levels…and is difficult to quantify.
This is a major punishment and a major deterrent. They just fined a business owner $5 million and stripped his franchise of four draft picks (each of which has monetary value). That’s a massive fine coupled with year-long suspensions of top leadership.
delete
Call it steep if you want, but don’t call it a deterrent. They keep the spoils of their war.
taran7
It’s easy to look back at that Astros Dodgers series and definitively say the Astros don’t win if they don’t know what pitch is coming.
slund24
You think losing your job and being out pay isnt a deterrent? No manager will allow this to happen if they know they will be suspended for a year and and fired from current position. Astros won a WS, but they were a great team. Doesn’t mean a future team will win a WS by doing the same thing and with the possibly of losing your job or the organization losing their draft picks, this will be a deterrent. Astros are the team they are today mainly because of their draft picks. Hinch apparently was against the sign stealing but didnt do anything to stop it and just lost his job for it. Cora is getting a big punishment.
Buck Jones
But their numbers are going to drop off without the drummer. lol
Clayton Russell
I agree. They should lose the WS. However, the Dodgers shouldn’t get it either and I’m saying that as a Dodgers fan. The problem is, the Stros cheated to get there so we don’t really know if the Dodgers would have won if the Astros didn’t cheat because LA may have been playing the Red Sox or Indians if the Astros hadn’t cheated in beating those teams. There’s no way of knowing, so they should have just taken it away and had no WS winner for 2017.
Buck Jones
Yeah, it’s good to breathe in the fresh, clean air emitted from my Blue Jays, championships or not., Lol
whynot 2
Yes, how can I help you?
MoRivera 1999
They should forever be referred to as the Asterisks.
MafiaBass
Why would that matter? They’re not going to give their rings back
compassrose
You guys asking about Cora should do one simple thing read the article. It answers all the questions you have. It seems every big announcement on here a bunch of guys ask a bunch of questions that are answered. Reading is fundamental in understanding.
jaysfansince1977
You should be aware since you know it all, that this article started out with only 4 paragraphs with the words “MORE TO COME” at the bottom, So quit acting so superior! there are always reasons for questions!
deweybelongsinthehall
Compass, original article didn’t mention Cora or Boston.
Buck Jones
The players have a union, that is a difference-maker..
KG25Baseball
LETS GO!!!
kc38
This is worse than I really imagined. Kinda had to make them to example though, but wow.
DarkSide830
agreed. dont understand why some are so angry. theyre paying dearly and this punishment is unprecedented. about as much as could be expected, and well beyond what i thought Manfred had the guts to do.
deweybelongsinthehall
Has no choice given all leagues have married into gambling. If he did nothing, Congress could easily get involved. Cheating scandals and sports gambling go to together like…
NatsFan15
Worse? Name a team that wouldn’t trade four picks and $5M for a championship. Name any other player who has ever been clearly discovered to be cheating and got ZERO punishment. Barry Bonds is thinking, “Man, if I could know the pitches and face ZERO repercussions, I would do that in a heartbeat. I would have had 1000 HRs and be in the HOF!”
If anything, this might deter PEDs. Illegal sign stealing has been given the A-OK (for players).
Reggie Bars
Agreed, this is overkill. There’s no way Hinch deserves a one-year ban, what a joke.
acarneglia
Wow wow wow wow wow
vtadave
Gotta be more to come. What about Alex Cora?
ramonskee
Right? He was in Houston for the 2017 cheating and in Boston the following year when similar cheating is being alleged.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
His discipline will be handed down after MLB finishes its investigation into the Red Sox.
seamaholic 2
No the Red Sox allegations aren’t anywhere near as severe as the Astros’. If he was involved in both it will be the Astros portion that loses him his job (and I think it will).
vanswanson
but Cora was with the astros and cheated with bosox so he’s going down
dynamite drop in monty
It’s most certainly just as severe, and I’m a sox fan. Using the leagues replay room to steal signs is as deplorable as it gets and the Sox should be given a severe slap too.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
What I said is factual. MLB is waiting to finish the Sox investigation and then will lay down overall punishment for Cora. Rumor is that it is severe.
ddj05
He’ll get a punishment for his role with the Astros and then a separate punishment for his role with the Red Sox. Gonna be legendary.
Buck Jones
If that was the case, he would have already got the first one surely. I think they are deliberately waiting to see how deep he is in it on the Red Sox case and if it’s up to his neck, he is gone for good.
Msvhs79
Good!!!
ramonskee
I think this is good enough. Can’t strip them of the WS because what does that really do?
MLB should donate the $5M to Puerto Rico and Australia.
sufferforsnakes
How about donating it to a cause in this country, like maybe wounded veterans, homelessness, or feeding the hungry?
oriole
Puerto Rico is this country
nelson_c
Oh snap!
jbigz12
Lmao. Oh yeah Puerto Rico is owned by the US! But what about the homeless in the Continental states!!!!
bkbk
lol, the parent comment.
rct
Puerto Rico is part of the US.
letmeclearmythroat74
Totally agree … my heart goes out to the Aussies but we have so many peeps in need , let’s take of them
MafiaBass
Puerto Rico is a United States territory, and they just had a 6.0 earthquake. They need all the help they can get, especially because the federal government isn’t doing enough.
ramonskee
There’s a good amount of Puerto Rican’s and a handful of Aussie’s playing baseball and contributing to the game somehow. How many homeless people are playing?? Zero!
Kidding. I’m all for helping everywhere we can. While every penny counts, not sure what the full $5M does to help the 500K+ homeless folks in America. Homelessness is a much bigger issue and a political topic so I’ll avoid it for now. What I do know is that we have fires that need to and can be stopped immediately in Australia that impact us all (believe what you want – I’m a fan of science and logic) and that there are Americans on an island without power.
And quite sad that you didn’t know Puerto Rico is part of the US.
Go Sox! (The clean white ones that have cheated since 1919!)
Ducey
The O’s are pretty close to hiring homeless people.
They are super cheap, and help get those high draft picks!
sf
I think this is exactly what needed to be done above and before all else, strip cheating teams of any titles or pennants. Is this not what they do to cheating schools in college? Vacate the championships. This is why they play. To win. Take it that winning away from the fans, the players and the owners. You shouldn’t get to fly the flag forever when you cheated to get it.
Les Chesterfield
lolz. y’all are clueless. They divvy it up 30 ways. That’s why MLB/NLF are so quick to suspend players- so they can keep the money they are owed for themselves and pretend like they have a good image in the process. But it’s just corporations getting richer at the expense of working people- the american way
ramonskee
This is exactly what I feared (if this is true). It goes into a community pot that’s divided amongst all the teams. Stupid.
bxcrunner
Wow! That’s severe.
nick effing punto
As they should. Red Sox penalty coming soon.
Jdice150
Did not expect the 1-year suspensions. Interesting
hozie007
….up next….Alex Cora
lord_xenu
Red Sox next?
cooper95
I think that’s the right punishment. It shows that the league is serious.
Vizionaire
owner/team hasn’t been punished.
dynamite drop in monty
You don’t consider a 5 million dollar fine, the loss of their gm and manager for a year and [most importantly] the loss of 4 high draft picks punishment for the team? Flummoxing.
Vizionaire
$5 mil? peanuts!
saint
When you consider they won a title… yeah, it is kind of light in my eyes. 5 million dollars is nothing compared to what that title brought them, and those games. So that is a drop in the bucket don’t you think?
That team is still gonna be a good team without their Skipper, so you figure they should at worst still be a playoff contender of a team, so those picks are bottom half for the drafts. So really, glorified 2nd and 3rd rounders.
And then losing their GM. That is probably the biggest blow.
Honestly, it is light. MLB banned Pete Rose for betting. I am honestly kind of surprised a stiffer penalty wasn’t drawn out for a team that won the World Series potentially because of this, or at the very least influenced by it.
dynamite drop in monty
That’s … that’s just a dumb comment.
wkkortas
You had me at “flummoxing”.
MrAngelFan
@dynamite No i don’t consider it punishment enough. Nothing is going affect the cheaters. They are probably laughing at this judgement. As an individual, you cheated and nothing happened to you. 5 million to an organization is nothing. Loss of draft picks is only going to hurt the organization down the road, maybe 2-5 years. Most of the cheaters will have moved on by then. Why not punish the people that cheated?
DTD_ATL
5 million is the max penalty. They can’t go higher than that.
dynamite drop in monty
Teams aren’t a bottomless pit of money.
MoRivera 1999
Mr. Angel Fan
“Why not punish the people that cheated?”
Agreed. Players should have been fined the equivalent of their championship shares.
Buck Jones
Can I have a bag please, hold the salt.
ronnsnow
Owner hasn’t been punished? Who do you think pays the $5mil?
ScottCFA
Au contraire. He loses his manager and GM for a year, and his top two picks for the next two years. He most certainly has been punished.
andremets
Drafts picks is punishment. The only thing more would have been to strip the ws title…
realsox
I don’t understand why individual players escaped punishment for cheating.
the guru
Me niether…players should be suspended. cheaters. This is extremely light. Multiple people should be banned for life.
DTD_ATL
Because there’s obviously no evidence that specific players are involved. What are they supposed to do, wear earplugs so they didn’t hear the banging of the trash can?
Cubguy13
If the players are being told to cheat by their employers then they are “working as directed” and will not be punished for that.
jbigz12
I think you guys are underestimating the loss of those draft picks. It vacates the bonus money assigned to those picks—that can ruin an entire draft for a team. Losing your first and second round pick for 2 years is a very steep punishment.
This whole deal is a steep punishment. Is it deserved? sure. But it is steep. The Astros will certainly feel the punishment. You also have to keep in mind that Elias left their FO—w/ other personnel and Taubman was recently fired as well. That’s a huge brain drain from the FO.
I’m fairly confident that the Astros aren’t laughing over this punishment.
dynamite drop in monty
Exactly.
MoRivera 1999
@DTD_ATL
ALL players and coaches were at least complicit if not active participant. All benefited. None did anything to stop it. They should have ALL been fined.
Buck Jones
The players union, that’s why. Manfred wants no part pf a union battle over this..
nymetsking
Owner I’d agree with, but team hasn’t been punished? Did you miss the loss of 1st & 2nd round picks the next two years?
Orangejedi23
Owner is Manfred’s boss. They can only go so far against Crane.
the guru
lol,. thats nothing. They get all their players interanationally anyways.
Buck Jones
5 Mill is the max fine, whoever the team owner is.
gilgunderson
As Don Draper once said, “That’s what the money is for!” $5 million hurts no matter who you are.
Also, losing those first and second round picks for the next two seasons will hurt them pretty badly in the long run, having less organizational talent to develop or use as trade chips.
Padres458
Lifetime bans or bust.
wkkortas
I can get behind that for luhnow, certainly.
NatsFan15
Just because you don’t like him? Did you want Cashman banned for all of the Yankees’ PED cheaters? (While letting ARod and others face no punishment?)
MoRivera 1999
You’re talking about an individual here and there vs. a whole team and management with the Stros. The GM, Manager, and every coach and player were in on it, whether just being complicit or active participant. As for the NYY, there is absolutely no evidence ANYWHERE that Cashman was involved. Neither was Girardi. So there’s no comparison if you apply logic. A-Rod made his own bed and he’s admitted it and he’s sleeping in it. Can’t say that about much of any other PED user.
NatsFan15
I agree that the Astros thing is worse. I just don’t understand how players don’t have to face ANY consequences. THEY cheated. THEY got all the benefits from cheating. Cheat via PEDs = harsh suspension. Cheat via sign stealing = ZERO punishment. Or maybe it’s only zero punishment if you get a bunch of your teammates to do it too? If Cashman organized PED doping sessions, ARod would have been in the clear? I can’t stand the players getting a free pass here.
NatsFan15
For the record, I do not think Cashman should have been fired for ARod taking steroids. And I don’t think he knew about it. I have no problem with the Astros GM and manager getting suspended/fired. BUT… I also think the people who ACTUALLY CHEATED should be held accountable as well. (I see elsewhere on the thread that you agree with that.) I think the cheaters should face the harsher penalties… but they didn’t even get a slap on the wrist.
DarkSide830
maximum allowable fine under the CBA, loss of cheap talent through the draft, need to rebuild the entire staff of the team. do you really think anything else could have been levied?
MoRivera 1999
DarkSide
“do you really think anything else could have been levied?”
YES. Fines for ALL the players and coaches. They were ALL at a minimum complicit if not active participants. They ALL benefited. None of them stopped it. They ALL should have been fined the amount of their Championship shares.
NatsFan15
Barry Bonds and ARod are thinking: “Man, I picked the wrong way to cheat. These guys got ZERO punishment! And knowing the pitches is MUCH more help!!”
bravesfanmatt
Ouch!!! much harsher than I expected and honestly harsher than deserved. Why not just have more sophisticated signs and you don’t have to worry about this.
bencole
It’s not the sign stealing that’s the violation. It’s the illegal camera.
earmbrister
They deserve every punishment and more …
Scumbags
mistry gm
Shoeless Joe Jackson didn’t cheat and was out of baseball from 1919 on, a lifetime ban. Players used steroids and some people still want them in the HOF. This isn’t harsh enough. Cheat and win cannot be accepted.
MrAngelFan
@bravesfan When no one is on base, the signs have always been one signal and easily deciphered. When there is no one on base there is no need to have elaborate signs. The Astros were using the camera feed and relaying to the hitter. This is information that would otherwise be unavailable.
Not everyone took role in the cheating, , but the system was primitive so it would be easy to uncover the individuals that cheated.. Other athletes despise other athletes that take shortcuts. The individuals that cheated should not be given a get out of jail free card.
MoRivera 1999
Even the players who were not active participants were complicit. They benefited from the cheating through the success of the team. None of them stopped it. They ALL should have been fined.
Hammmbone
Well deserved. However, it is safe to assume every team cheats (sign stealing, etc). So far the Astros and Red Sox got caught.
dynamite drop in monty
No it’s not.
samthebravesfan
I think most teams do conventional cheating because no one rats on you for doing it.
mikeyst13
Even if someone did rat on them, sign stealing is not technically against the rules. It’s sometimes frowned upon and definitely may earn someone a heater to the thigh, but not technically against the rules. Using technology to steal signs however is against the rules.
robertp
The Yankees got fined in 2017 for using phones incorrectly to give info and there were people yelling signals out at some games. There are a LOT of dirty hands in this scandal that just haven’t had someone rat them out yet. Bobby Thomson hit the Home Run Heard Round The World against Ralph Branca and won a World Series because of stolen signs. You think everybody isn’t doing it?
What I think is nonsense is this idea that in a game where signs are constantly changed there should be protection for any of them. Any player can go to their hotel room, load up MLB.TV and watch the signs from that night’s game, knowing chances are slim that they go to an entirely new set of signs the next night. Coming up with different signs for 162 individual games would be utter chaos and it isn’t happening. So learning signs is no big deal.
MLB protecting them so harshly makes such little sense. It’s a part of the game for teams to figure the whole deal out, hence why the changes to the signs constantly. A player at Second can see the signs, hence why they change them. Seriously it’s a cat and mouse thing, not an official part of the game, that’s not really something that needs to be an official rule, IMO.
MoRivera 1999
@Robert Poole
“The Yankees got fined in 2017 for using phones incorrectly or to give info and there were people yelling signals out at some games.”
Yankees got fined for HAVING a phone, not for a) using it incorrectly or b) giving out info.
Also, they were not fined for people yelling out signs at some games. In fact, no one has any evidence of that.
You’re spreading misinformation, a euphemism for lies.
And you are spreading this crap for the purpose of spreading the “everyone does it” defense, which itself is crap.
If the Yanks get accused and convicted, I will be the first to condemn. I am not like so many Stros and Sox fans who will defend their cheaters. (I don’t defend A-Rod either). But they haven’t been accused or convicted. You’re lying.
DTD_ATL
You have the naivety of a toddler if you don’t think all teams cheat.
dynamite drop in monty
You see the problem is you can’t just pigeonhole everything under one category of “cheating”. Do all teams use some sort of gamesmanship to take advantage of teams with holes in their signs? Probably. Do all teams use video and HD cameras and four to five man teams to parlay the info live? Probably not.
MoRivera 1999
DTD_ATL
“You have the naivety of a toddler if you don’t think all teams cheat.”
Prove it. If it’s ubiquitous, it should be easy to prove.
dynamite drop in monty
Seriously I am so sick of this ridiculous equivocation. Using the video replay technology to “steal signs” is not the same as 1950s guys figuring out signs with their eyes and brains.
robertp
Stealing signs is stealing signs. Whether they were “using their brains”, clapping, using flash lights, using whatever… stealing signs is stealing signs. And it doesn’t need protection. Signs are not an official part of the game.
dynamite drop in monty
I can’t disagree enough.
DirtyWater04
The 1951 Giants, one of the “ridiculous equivocations” you refer to, stole signs using a telescope in center field and relayed what pitch was coming using a buzzer wired from the bullpen to the dugout, but sure, let’s call that their eyes and brains.
seamaholic 2
No. That’s a lazy and inaccurate way of thinking. I think it’s fair to say that those two teams aren’t the only ones. But it’s completely unfair to say they all do it.
PhilsPhan
Uhhhh, no.
bkwalker510
i think everyone has agreed that “cheating” using whatever information that’s available to you on the field is perfectly ok in baseball. it’s cheating using technology/cameras that’s not ok. big difference.
compassrose
If the Mariners have been cheating Manfred should ban all the coaches gm and everyone for life for sucking at it so bad. One funny thing I saw was they were cheating against the Ms.. Why did they waste their time?
jdgoat
I’m surprised by this. I was only expecting a massive fine and loss of draft picks. If I’m the Luhnow, I’m being petty as hell in 2021 and bringing in any disgruntled player or employee from other teams to bury them as well lol.
earmbrister
If you’re Luhnow, you should be happy you didn’t get a lifetime ban.
baseballlifer
Wow
RedFeather
And the Cardinals are “cheaters” lol
clepto
Well….they are. So what’s your point? You think this lessens their hacking. Nice try.
themed
They hacked Luhnow to try to expose him before it was too late.
SimbaHOF2019
Luhnow STOLE proprietary analytics directly from the cardinals and didnt even change the passwords. He lied about them developing it after leaving the cards becauswe they were using it the next day.
Hacking is wrong but the astros never got a slap on the wrist for there part. caRDINALS GOT ALL The punishment
clepto
Idiot of the day: Simba
Let me guess: its the bar tenders fault when someone gets a DUI.
Nice logic, einsten. Try learning about personal accountability.
dynamite drop in monty
Dram shop law and civil responsibility say yes, it is the bartenders fault.
SimbaHOF2019
Ok clepto. I think i said the hacking was wrong. what do you want? Why werent the astros investigated at all. Theft is an actual crime last i heard. a clepto like you should understand.
Maybe instead of calling people names you could learn to read. You dont have to be Einstein.
clepto
Maybe because they didnt need to investigate since nothing wrong was done. Fact. Period. No worry, you still get your award.
SimbaHOF2019
Ok clepto. I think i said the hacking was wrong. what do you want? Why werent the astros investigated at all. Theft is an actual crime last i heard. a clepto like you should understand.
SimbaHOF2019
Well you seem to have all the facts. Mind sharing any?
RunDMC
This has to be former scout Chris Correa chiming in during his 30-minute internet allotment during supervised visits to the library at his correctional facility.
kaido24
Correa is already out of prison.
nymetsking
I guess this exonerates the Blacksox too? SMH
Old User Name
Astro fans outrage in 3…2…1…
astromariner
I’m an Astros fan and I am completely fine with the punishment.
goastros123
Same here.
sippycups
Any fan of any team would trade this punishment for a title. This was weak. Personally, I’d say they should have gotten the equivalent of the SMU death penalty.
deweybelongsinthehall
After the fact, yes considering the options. Would Red Sox fans in 2004 have wanted to win their first championship knowing their PED players outperformed the Cardinals PED players? Would you have watched in 17 if you knew your team cheated their way to the pennant? I can’t speak for everyone but I know I wouldn’t want to win that way.
MoRivera 1999
Well said. And with integrity, which is sorely lacking around here.
NatsFan15
Haha. There will be no outrage! Their players admitted to cheating and only the manager and GM got punished. That’s a huge sign of relief you hear coming from Astros fans. And if you asked Crane or any Astros fan if they could go back and do it differently, would they change anything, I think most would say…. “Eh…. 4 picks and $5M for a championship? I like it.”
sherlock_
YESSSSSS LETS GO OAKLAND
skip 2
Yep! Let’s go Oakland!!!
sacball
LET’S GO OAKLAND!!
compassrose
I would say let’s go Oakland too. Get the he’ll out of dodge.
DarkSide830
Houston will still win the West. Hinch is good, but not that important to the Stros.
sacball
the owner just fired the manager and GM, have fun with that
ramonskee
But what about the damn trash cans?? They get off without a penalty??
MrMet62
That’s just a lot of garbage!
Captain Dunsel
Manfred didn’t want them to flip their lids.
nymetsking
they get a Hefty fine.
dirkg
Lay off the trash cans, they already got their beating.
DarkSide830
they’ve had their fill of garbage said about them
Cubguy13
So much trash talk in this thread
Buck Jones
Drummed out in disgrace.
MikeyHammer
When reached for comment, Oscar The Grouch said, simply, “I love trash”.
luckyh
Wow! Buckle up Boston, you’re next.
solaris602
Cora could be looking at a lifetime ban. Whatever happens it’s pretty clear that the consequences will be severe.
dman07
Damn! This is definitely setting a statement. Way to go MLB.
Phil253
Sending a statement would be taking away their WS title.
dirkg
While I understand the logic, that’s opening Pandoras Box. You could argue WS titles of teams with steroid users could be stripped…thin line there.
Phil253
It’s really not. Steroid use is on an individual level. What the Astros have done is on a franchise/organizational level. A collective cheating over an individual acting on their own. In order for the Astros to pull this off you have involvement on 4 organizational levels which includes players. People monetarily benefited from this cheating. That being bonuses, endorsements, salary upgrades. While taking roids will benefit the individual player is such ways this is on a much larger scale.
DarkSide830
this issue is beyond the level of a symbolic punishment. nothing besides an economic hit on those involved would be worthwhile.
bob9988 2
Should have been harsher. But that said, I think it’s hard enough that those of us who play against them all season are going to be satisfied that due justice was served.
nymetsking
Short of lifetime bans, isn’t much room for “harsher.”
bob9988 2
That is what I was after. It seems from the report that Cora was the biggest driving force and he should receive the lifetime ban.
NatsFan15
How about “any punishment at all” for the guys who were actually doing the cheating?!?!
I’m shocked at the contrast between suspensions for PED users and the lack suspensions for players who cheated in a much more effective manner.
Buck Jones
Players are protected by their union the staff are not.
MoRivera 1999
@nymetsking
“Short of lifetime bans, isn’t much room for “harsher.”
FINES. Player Fines. And coaches, too. That would have been “harsher.”
MoRivera 1999
bob9988
“Should have been harsher. But that said, I think it’s hard enough that those of us who play against them all season are going to be satisfied that due justice was served.”
But will it stop anyone from stealing signs technologically in the future? That’s the question. Without hitting the players with fines, I wonder.
NatsFan15
If you’re a player inclined to cheat… you’re stopping the PEDs and hiring a camera man. Why not?!?! Worst case is your manager gets the ax.
VonPurpleHayes
This is about a big a penalty as they can get. Good on Manfred. I feel bad for all the Astros fans who will now hear doubts as to the legitimacy of their team’s championship.
Phil253
Should legitimately be stripped of the championship.
Old User Name
Everyone knows them for what they are and that title will never be considered legitimate.
bryzzo_2016
Exactly
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t think you can do that. The game was still played. The Astros had an unfair advantage, but the Dodgers don’t want a hand-me-down title. It’s just a bad break. I suppose you can simply say no one won in 2017, but that sort of ruins the history aspect of the game and diminishes a lot of hard-earned stats (for non-Astros) for that year.
It’s a real tough situation. I think so far the MLB has done a great job of handling this.
saint
You think Patriots fans are worried about the Cheating Belichick has done and gotten away with. Trust me, Astro fans will be just fine because they have a title. There can be some skepticism towards it but ultimately, that title is there.
VonPurpleHayes
This is a little different as the evidence of the Astros cheating can be seen throughout their championship season. It directly calls into question everything. The Patriots scandals are a little harder to prove.
saint
But you did call them scandals.
MoRivera 1999
@Saint
“Astro fans will be just fine because they have a title. ”
It’s up to us to let them know at every turn that no one thinks that title is legitimate.”
dynamite drop in monty
Sox need to can Cora like yesterday. Damage is gone tho ‘18 will forever be asterisked because of that little worm.
nymetsking
He’s done plenty with cans already.
dynamite drop in monty
Ha! Nice.
Eatdust666
I’m not surprised about the suspensions and I called the loss of draft picks and that they would get fined lmao.
phantomofdb
Well done mlb
jjd002
Can Lunhow appeal so he can lock up Springer before sitting out for a year?
Bart
No, he cant.
gared2004
How ironic that Hinch is wearing his “October Ready” shirt. They were definitely ready.
bencole
Awesome. This is the way to handle this.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Cora is trash, and should be banned from baseball. He’s a two time offender (that we know of).
dynamite drop in monty
I agree.
SDHotDawg
A.J. Preller is a three time offender. The only thing he’s “won” is beating Luhnow to that very short list of suspended GMs. However, Luhnow beat him in length of suspension.
Cheaters need to go.
NatsFan15
Except for players. If you cheat via some means, yeah, you get suspended. But if you cheat via OTHER means, your GM and Manager get to take the fall for you!
amk3510
Los Angeles Dodgers 2017 World Champions
VonPurpleHayes
The Dodgers would never want a hand-me-down title like that. It sucks that we’ll always have doubt in the back of our minds about the 2017 Astros, but that’s the reality.
MoRivera 1999
You should ask them rather than speak for them.
Phil253
Correct
Old User Name
As the Astros lost all road games and won all home games against the Yankees, the Yankees have as much reason to complain as the Dodgers do.
VonPurpleHayes
But like the Dodgers, the Yankees would not want a hand-me-down. They want to earn a title.
goastros123
Joe Says….. the Yankees were shut down by Astros pitching at Minute Maid so no. Besides, seeing as you’re Yankees fan, your team is very talented so they’re gonna be fine.
NatsFan15
Joe is just glad he didn’t get suspended and fired when his players were found to be cheating! (ARod and Pettite)
That happened back in the old days when players were punished for cheating.
Ackattack
THATS IT?!
burntToast
Any precedent for a GM suspension?
Brandon Endsley
Braves GM got a lifetime ban for his role in the international signing scandal. Plus loss of 13 players and international signing restrictions for 3 years.
lonestardodger
A.J. Preller got suspended a couple years ago for not disclosing medicals in a trade
burntToast
Guess it doesn’t matter now that Crane fired them both
thetech
I don’t understand exactly how this works. Do the Astro’s now hire a new Manager? I’m a Sox fan, if Cora gets suspended for that amount of time do we have the bench coach step in or hire someone else?
Varmit
wondering the same thing.. I would guess bench coach and bring in someone to back him up?
dynamite drop in monty
Sox should have fired Cora the second the Astros report came out. He will be handed a heavy punishment once the Sox investigation is completed. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s booted from the game.
solaris602
Totally agree. There will likely be consequences for the Boston organization, but their best course of action in the present is to terminate Cora. In any event he has very likely managed his last game in Boston or anywhere else for that matter.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Does suspension mean no pay for Luhnow and Hinch?
lonestardodger
Think so. Which lessens the $5M fine for Jim Crane if he doesn’t have to pay them
jbigz12
He also loses his manager and general manager for a year. There’s a reason he’s paying those guys in the first place—they’re good at their jobs.
the guru
these guys are crooks…lunhow will still be managing from his house. watch.
MoRivera 1999
Agreed. What they did costed opponents millions. They and the players are crooks.
NorahW
I read somewhere else that they’re suspended without pay.
Buck Jones
Lol, take a wild guess.
driftcat28 2
I hope Cora is suspended for the season too. He was Hinch’s right hand man and seeing as the sign stealing continued with the Sox, I’m sure that he played a prominent role in the Astros scandal too
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
Cora will NOT be suspended for the Astros cheating. He left the team. That’s like Dave Dombrowski getting suspended for a year for the Red Sox cheating. He’s already gone.
neurogame
Just because you leave the scene of a crime you helped commit doesn’t mean you’re exempt from penalties/consequences of that crime.
nymetsking
That’s like saying player “X” can’t be suspended for PEDs because he was caught using while with another club.
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
So according to your logic Dave Dombrowski will be suspended.
Also.., Cora will be suspended BEFORE the Red Sox investigation is complete. Okay I’ll look for the headlines.
Or you could just read the article and it says Cora will be judged by his Red Sox actions.
Some people here don’t think before they post.
MoRivera 1999
That you want any part of Cora knowing what you now know is telling about your character.
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
Mo ?? What are you talking about?? Who wants any part of Cora ?? You make zero sense. Again.
And then you attempt a shot at a person’s character.. so what does that say about you ? Weak post.
dejota
Astros fan here. More interested in hearing MLB’s response than the penalties. Sounds like it was endorsed from the top down. Losing the picks really hurts but the issue MLB still needs to address is how they plan to fairly enforce this going forward, what other teams are involved, how far and when did this occur and how they plan on handling players ratting each other our going forward.
This is the outcome I expected. The ‘Stros will be fine but if mlb cant address the issue league wide this is just the beginning not the end of this.
skyyalpha
Luhnow should be banned for life, and players should have had suspensions as well. Other than that, good job MLB.
PhilsPhan
The banners need to come down at their stadium. It’s symbolic and it should hurt.
VonPurpleHayes
Ohh. Interesting. So they’re still champions, but not allowed to celebrate it as much as other teams. Not an awful idea.
AllRiseForTheJudge
It’s probably worth noting that this isn’t official yet, just a Ken Rosenthal report and we all know how reliable ol’ Kenny is #sarcasm
jk
how about the guy that requested the scouts to cheat? im thinking it was Vice president?
asuchrisc
Just curious if there is a Union for managers/executives? If s would they be able to appeal?
dejota
Why would they appeal? They do not get suspended unless they can prove their guilt? The whole MLB stance has been a cover up is worse than the offense.
Dmuny1
Yeah real harsh when they get to keep their WS and all the player bonuses for winning. If your cheating and its a super close WS , than obviously you stole it. If im the Dodgers, i want my money.
SupremeZeus
Me likey. (Bangs on trash can)
jonnyzuck
well that was more than I thought it would be
the guru
yep, but sadly way less than it should be. everyone just knows MLB leadership is weak so expectations were low.
Phil253
WS title should be vacated too.
bryzzo_2016
It essentially is vacated. No one (outside of meatball Houston homers) will give any credence or respect to that title. It will forever have an asterisk next to it.
goastros123
In your mind, yes. In reality, no.
bryzzo_2016
Haha… and predictably, right on cue, enter the delusional “meatball Houston homer”. Perhaps you should stay off Twitter, and pretty much all the baseball related sites as fans, media, players are echoing my sentiments. THAT is the reality. That championship means nothing. For your case, I hope that ignorance truly is bliss @goastros123
goastros123
That’s fine. The true reality is that the championship stands and MLB will not put an asterisk by it in the record book. Like I said: in your mind, sure. In reality, no. For your sake, I hope you never have to wake up and smell the roses. Lol.
rognog
Should have had to vacate the title and take down pennants
PhilsPhan
The pennants need to come down at their stadium, 100%!!
bryzzo_2016
Agreed
GDrank
I’d still rather they strip the title and give very stern warnings to those involved. This is far from a slap on the wrist but I think it says using questionably legal, emerging techniques made possible by technology is a valid way to win titles. Here’s hoping there isn’t another such scandal down the line.
deal1122
So as a Red Sox fan… what is Cora getting? PS, if he cheated he deserves to be punished too, no exceptions.
sacball
Separate punishment, probably lifetime ban
braves fan 138
How is this dropping the hammer, anyone associated with this management wise should have been permanently banned from baseball, I know I going to get flak for saying this, but this is weak sauce when you actually think about it. They got a World Series out of this penalty, and still have their core together.
Karson Brown
Spot on. It’s nothing compared to what the Braves were slapped with.
RunDMC
Agreed, but there were a lot of reports at how bold ATL was with their malfeasance while Coppy supposedly did not cooperate with investigators, at one point, which is partially why they threw him out. That being said, he didn’t have the reputation that Hinch and Luhnow have before this. Coppy stepped on a lot of toes and burned a lot of bridges, so it was easy to cut him off permanently.
PowBam
Whatever Coppy’s personality flaws were, he tried to gain an advantage at the lowest level of the game, while Astros cheated at the highest level. This is a slap on wrist.
braves fan 138
@RunDMC if this is the weak punishment for this crime I say for the Braves to go for it and start stealing signs. I will take this punishment all day everyday if it means a ring
the guru
agreed…its sad really how light this punishment is. This punishment encourages teams to cheat.
burntToast
Draft picks hurt the most, no doubt
neurogame
It’s four draft picks (4 players) + $5M. It’s really nothing. They’re not banned from signing players internationally nor are they handcuffed from signing free agents.
sacball
Woof! Cora about to be suspended for life
jb19
Does Manfred’s salary count against the Yankees payroll for luxury tax purposes?
titanic struggle
Haha!
Karson Brown
Weak slap on the wrist compared to what Coppolella and the Braves got hit with.
Backatitagain
Not as severe as punishment to Braves where accusations did not include competition advantages. Descrimination against the south by New York continues. Sure did not hit Yankees or Bosox as hard.
PowBam
Agreed. Total bias favoring MLB’s darlings. Total BS.
compassrose
Well if yall southern folk would a not made usall make war om yall we we woild shirley like ye better. We dint like ye all the way up here cuse ya madem us kill r kinfolk. N wat did ye get fur the war? Jest a bunch of ded kinfolk and the hatred uf we guys up nurth.
What stupid and ignorant comments. Cora will be banned fort life. Boston will lose picks and FO people involved will be suspended. Wait until the final punishments come down on Boston before whining about being picked on.
SDHotDawg
Your first paragraph is the epitome of “stupid and ignorant.”
VonPurpleHayes
Isn’t Houston in the South? I don’t understand your point.
Jobrijim1
New york? What did they do?
sufferforsnakes
They should have taken the WS title from them, too.
Cheaters don’t deserve it.
dynamite drop in monty
You guys don’t seem to realize how unfeasible that is. You can’t punish 100s of players and coaches and employees like that without proof of their involvement. The draft picks will kneecap the team for some time.
AllRiseForTheJudge
It really isn’t that difficult to say “we’re vacating the 2017 World Series and there will be no champion for that year”. The NCAA has done it several times despite any factual evidence of the involvement of specific players simply because the UNIVERSITY was found to have violated an obscure rule nobody actually knew about.
This is documented cheating and MLB has every right to vacate the World Series. That’s not punishing the players, that’s punishing the organization for organized and orchestrated cheating. You were on the team? You knew it was happening, period. This isn’t a courtroom, guilt by association is guilt enough for me.
neurogame
It’s four draft picks (4 players) + $5M. It’s really nothing. They’re not banned from signing players internationally nor are they handcuffed from signing free agents.
the guru
its nothing. four picks. lol give me a break. so weak its sad.
bhambrave
I think Houston got off easy. They could have gotten lifetime bans.
dynamite drop in monty
The entire franchise? What?
nymetsking
The whole city!
dynamite drop in monty
The whole planet Houston?
MoRivera 1999
For starters, ;^)
NatsFan15
How about the Houston players?? The people who actually cheated?!? ZERO punishment. Not even a slap on the wrist.
Buck Jones
Players union. would fight it..
NatsFan15
I don’t doubt that. But what’s the line here? Players are no longer punished for cheating? Because… the union would fight it? I see PED suspensions still coming down… so not ALL cheating is OK. Just some cheating. Or maybe it’s only if you get a lot of your teammates to cheat with you… then you’re all safe.
iml12
Those draft picks can kill an organizations farm system quickly. Good job MlB
SDHotDawg
Not really. Baseball draft picks are way overvalued.
its_happening
Fair punishment. Should be interesting how they handle Cora. Being rid of Cora doesn’t necessarily hurt the Red Sox.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Being rid of Cora? He won the World Series in his first season as manager, albeit he may have cheated his way to that, too, but it certainly would hurt to lose him. I’m a Yankees fan, so I’m all for Boston sucking.
Whatever happens to Cora determines the direction of Boston’s 2020 plans. If he’s suspended for a year, there’s no way they don’t trade Betts, Martinez, Price and Sale. Their window to compete with the current group ends when Betts walks out the door in 10 months, so they might as well get a head start on the future if they have no real manager.
its_happening
Bob Brenly won a World Series in his first season. What is your point? Cora proved in 2019 he’s not the manager for the longhaul. If I have to explain it to you then you aren’t paying attention to Cora’s methods as a manager.
Disagree with your second paragraph. Red Sox aren’t throwing in the towel if Cora is suspended for a year. They will throw in the towel when they are mathematically eliminated from competing.
hotchkiss
Dusty Baker can step in, no learning curve, great results w Nats in his 2 years there. Sox should consider, he’s a class act which Boston now needs, they’re bigger cheaters than the Astros imo.
Backatitagain
Same thing occured in game five of last years playoff by STL vs. Atlanta.
tdtd1515
Huh? You are saying the Cardinals cheated on the road?
themed
No that was just an offensive explosion and the best team not only won but destroyed that stupid tomahawk chop!
themed
Perfectly legal.
AlbiestheRacistDragon
Not enough. If Coppy got banned for off the field cheating these two definitely deserve a lifetime ban.
kwolf68
Hard to believe cheating to that level. You’re a pro? You’re good? What’s that say about you that you resort to this type of chicanery? As a competitor why would you want it “handed’ to you? I just don’t get it. Satisfaction of winning the world series should come from the true accomplishment. Instead now the Astros will be looked at as frauds. You guys cheated, you got the big payday, now you’re being held to account. How does it taste now tiger? A sad day for baseball, I’d argue worse than the fixing scandals of the early 20th century (Black Sox) where the players threw games because they were being wildly exploited by millionaire owners. I don’t like it, but I GET THAT. What the Stros and BoSox did I don’t get.
MoRivera 1999
As many Stros fans here demonstrate, they’re perfectly willing to enjoy the title, no matter how tainted we all say it is. Or so they say.
gorav114
I think they should have banned them from the playoffs and the loss of picks for one season. That way it punishes the whole organization more effectively then suspending manager and gm.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Banning them from the postseason punishes the fans, though. Stripping Houston of the 2017 World Series would have been an appropriate punishment, but there’s no sense alienating an entire fanbase three years after the fact by giving them no reason to show up and spend money on their favorite team.
Houston is a small market and MLB knows that if it alienates the fans by taking away their reason for watching, those fans will never come back. Arlington and the Rangers aren’t that far up the road.
gared2004
When Cora and the Red Sox get a similar punishment (the organization perhaps even more so, since this is their second offense related to sign stealing) it will likely play a significant role in whether or not they can sign Betts to a long term deal.
AllRiseForTheJudge
I don’t puff my own chest out here, but I was spot-on with the Hinch suspension in another thread posted last week about MLB getting ready to hand out punishment. I did suggest Luhnow would be suspended indefinitely, which was wrong, as well as some other admittedly absurd things that I knew wouldn’t happen.
I did half hope Manfred would have the stones to vacate the 2017 World Series, though, and I’m disappointed that hasn’t been done, at least according to this report. Obviously, the final decision could be different once MLB announces it.
Dbird777
Raise the limit from 5 mil to 200 mil. I wanna see ’em have to fire sale to pay the fine. (My Reds could get Correa :D) Then they can hire the team from Major League. Idc what anyone says, I’d still pay to see Charlie Sheen pitch and Wesley Snipes flop 10 feet in front of 2B.
The Human Toilet
Should of hit them in the international market as well, but overall good work.
Ronk325
I would have liked to see them lose international bonus money as well but this is still good. I wonder if Astros fans will still swear they did nothing wrong
jleve618
Damn, much harsher than I anticipated.
the guru
huh…you are joking? they stole a world series and they only got 1 year. This is nothing.
NatsFan15
And the players who cheated…. nothing.
PowBam
John Coppy, Braves GM, gets lifetime ban for financial improprieties dealing with 16 year old international prospects and ASTROS GM gets 1 year for cheating during WS!!!! THIS IS A TRAVESTY!!!
Jrmomo1000
Carlos Beltron has been named in this too so do u fire the parties involved if you are the Astros owner.
tdtd1515
Carlos Beltran is the manager for New York Mets. How is the Astros owner going to fire him?
NatsFan15
Yeah, he’s the manager of the Mets. He’s already serving his sentence.
MoRivera 1999
If the Mets had any integrity, they would dismiss Beltran.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
They should be forced to hire Neal Huntington as an interm GM so he can strip the organization of any prospects for has been starters.
DarrenDreifortsContract
And hire Dusty Baker to be their interim manager. So he can destroy every young arm that they have.
nymetsking
LOL.
retire21
That would violate their 8th amendment rights lol.
caseym
Alex Cora deserves the Pete Rose treatment. BANNED FOR LIFE. Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles. This is worse than the Black Sox scandal IMO.
goastros123
There are no laws broken here, just so you know.
tdw1325
The lifetime ban was not due to legal reasons. It was due to gambling affecting the integrity of the game. Same issue with using electronics to cheat, steroids, and other cheating advantages that are illegal and create uneven playing field. I wouldn’t be upset if he got a lifetime ban. But at the least I think you have to give him two years.
clepto
Drama much??
goastros123
This is what I expected and it’s reasonable. I’m curious as to how Houston does without AJ Hinch.
neurogame
They have over $200M of talent that will play. I’m sure they’ll be just fine. It’s really a matter of how the players will perform under more scrutiny now that they’ve been outed as needing outside help to hit good pitching.
That’s far more important than if the field manager or GM is around.
the guru
hinch is a monkey on a keyboard. that guy hasn’t made one lineup or bullpen decision in his time there. The comp and analysts run that team and radio down to him. I’m surprised you don’ t know that, its well known i thought.
Buck Jones
They will get Duquette and go in a tailspin. lol
DarrenDreifortsContract
Wow, I recommended a similar punishment but more harsh. I’m actually surprised but hopefully this will keep future teams from cheating.
Congratulations to the 2017 Dodgers on their first world series win since 1988!
Win for Vin is complete!
goastros123
Except in the record books it says the Astros won.
NatsFan15
It certainly does not discourage players from cheating in the future. ZERO punishment. It does the opposite, actually. Encourages this form of cheating over PED usage. (And this is much more helpful!)
kenphelps44
Asterisk next to their WS championship.
jonnymac2for1
I wish they would have taken their 40 man roster down for three years at 37, 38, 39. This would have been awesome to see them work out of.
Nervehammer
As an astros fan, I’m glad to have this over with. The whole offseason I’ve felt unexcited and kind of demoralized with my team. The Astros are really the only reason I follow baseball closely. I couldn’t be a fan or any other team. I hope the astros can move on from this.
goastros123
They’ll move on from it.
Varmit
My favorite reaction to this mess. Nicely done
chuck123
They should add an asterisk next to the World Series stats stating they cheated
stevecohenMVP
BAN the garbage pail hitter!
sacball
it’s literally up to the Astros on whether to fire that person lol
NU Wildcats
Brewers will be the other team discovered to have cheated.
Four4fore
Does this mean they can’t sign free agents with qualified offers attached?
sacball
they can, if one of the draft picks is the one that has been taken away, the draft pick being taken away rolls into the following season
Yensid
This penalty is crap.. how are you going to stop the GM from working at home and around the ballpark.. The manager can still make certain decisions via text/email before a game etc.. 5 Million is a slap on the wrist and a few draft picks.. give me a break!
TheFixIsIn
I disagree. I think it’s pretty severe.
sacball
you don’t think that sort of thing is going to be monitored? this isn’t 1962 anymore
nymetsking
It’s not? Dangit! I was planning to go to the first ever Mets game.
desertbull
Do they get to appeal it?
TheFixIsIn
What’s the common denominator here? Alex Cora. Maybe he’s the “cheater” in both instances and should bear the brunt of punishment. Fire his arse!
Goose
4 high picks over the next two seasons is laying down the nuke, not the hammer. That is going to hurt the Astros down the road.
It will be interesting to see what the union says because that is 4 high slot jobs going bye bye. In a weird way, 4 young players are going to get screwed.
SimbaHOF2019
there just going to be drafted by another team for the same money?
Goose
The rounds are slotted. Two high slots each year go bye, bye. and so does the money slotted to those rounds. If someone was being picked in the 1st round now slides down to the 2nd round and gets a lower slot. Same with the 2nd pick, now becomes a 3rd round pick.
bg816
The MLBPA doesn’t represent draftees until they debut in the MLB. It’s just like how the Players’ Association is not responsible in advocating for higher wages for minor league players; they do not pay union dues, nor are they yet members.
Clemens_Killed_Wonderbat
I chose a half measure, Walter, when I should’ve gone all the way.
Banning Hinch, Luhnow, and Cora for life would’ve been fitting and sent a message. The Braves GM was banned for a lot less than this. Commissioner Pinocchio is useless.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Agreed. Although I did call the Hinch suspension in another thread, I figured Luhnow at least would get a lifetime ban and Hinch definitely deserved one as well. Cora needs to be hit in the wallet and banned for at least a year at this point.
bg816
The Braves situation was very different. Apples and oranges. I’m not saying that the lifetime ban for the Braves’ GM was necessarily fair or not fair, but comparing the two (or three taking the Red Sox into account) incidents just doesn’t work.
cchcogr
Sure hope the Astros don’t still win the West , or you people going to ask for hit men to be called !! Lol
And i also surely hope your teams don’t do anything crazy or there will be a record number of crawfishing going on !!
FattKemp
If you believe in any support of punishment at all beyond telling them to stop and not bothering to suspend pitchers that might throw at Springer’s head (or someone) for a couple months, then you are a cupcake who believes everyone is a winner and believe in participation trophies and should have no say in the matter. Remember every pennant winner from the 1950s stole signs in some way? Why is it a problem just because technology was used. Unreal. This is the stupidest thing to happen in this millennium.
Just_a_thought
You sure are one dense bagel
– Cupcake
retire21
Wow. You are so wrong on so many levels.
FattKemp
Here’s a ribbon. You’re a winner! Thanks for sharing.
frank_costanza
I can’t think of a less significant punishment than suspending an AL manager. Who will set the lineup card?!
NatsFan15
It will be difficult to set the lineup now that all of the cheating players were suspended. Oh wait…
Norton
The penalty seems severe, but then I think how is Pete banned for life and these two go into time out for a year? How will the GM penalty be enforced? He’s probably at Walmart right now getting a new Straight Talk phone
AllRiseForTheJudge
I personally like this quote from Feinsand at MLB.com:
““Crane is extraordinarily troubled and upset by the conduct of members of his organization, fully supported my investigation and provided unfettered access to any and all information requested,” Manfred said.”
If Jim Crane is actually “extraordinarily troubled and upset” by this, he should fire Luhnow and Hinch immediately, as well as mandate that his players return their WS rings and pay back any bonuses they received. He should also take that World Series banner down and publicly denounce the actions of his organization.
goastros123
If he sells the team, sure. Otherwise making them take the banners down and have the players give back their rings isn’t going to sit well with the Astros fanbase.
frank_costanza
Yeah because billionaires are known for their humility
Goose
And he did.
NatsFan15
Jim Crane is full of it.
MLB says this was organizational cheating and the guys at the top must be punished. Well, not the VERY top…. but the guys just below him should be punished severely!
efrainrossy
Mike Fiers is FA next year Sox and fight for him!!!! Jajajaja
imindless
I would like the astros chip taken away as well. I dont need dodgers to receive it but astros dont deserve to have it. Red sox are next!
sacball
exactly! are they gonna try to be all smug from here on out like they have been?
neurogame
One year is nothing. They still have jobs when they return. It’s like a sabbatical for winning in 2017.
Nuggethoarder
Actually it is a long time. Think about all the transactions that happen in a year for a baseball team. Luhnow is banned from working on those transactions. He will have to come back (if they want him) to a team that has been run by someone else.
Who knows what FA contracts, trades, DFA’s, MiLB promotions, etc. will take place in the span of a year. It’s major.
jdgoat
If the Astros win the World Series this year, are they really gonna fire the interim manager and GM?
ioh2710
This is crazy. I’m not even an Astros fan, but wow. I respect MLB for what they handed them
nextonehasbeen
Please please please tell me Al Avila is next.
Signed,
All Tigers fans
whyhayzee
Suspicious! All you do by increasing punishment is to make the cheater work harder to cheat. There are other teams cheating, no question, but they haven’t been caught. It will just make them get better at cheating. That’s how it works.
Part of me wants to say “Oh good, the wrongdoers are getting punished”, but that’s an infantile response. It’s only the wrongdoers who got caught. So the message is don’t get caught. And so it goes.
seamaholic 2
If the Astros guys know other teams that cheat, you can bet your bottom dollar MLB is gonna hear about that. That’s part of why they came down so hard. Standard mob-prosecution tactics. They’re not gonna want to go down alone on this. If Cora knows something about the Yankees or any other team, watch out.
whyhayzee
The way to go about this is to make sure you get really good at being able to catch the wrongdoers. That way the tail isn’t wagging the dog. I agree that teams will turn against each other when the punishment is this harsh but it’s really up to MLB to be proactive and figure out how to catch it. I’m sure a few sharp guys with video could figure out quite a lot just from watching closely how events transpire. Sure, it’s circumstantial at that point but gives you reason to dig deeper.
retire21
Terrible attempt at logic.
Just_a_thought
1 pitch, 1 swing and a miss, 3 strikes.
Now I’ve seen it all
NatsFan15
But the wrongdoers are NOT getting punished. No player suspensions. Not one. They’re the ones who cheated.
sacball
They played paranoid of being caught, and now they’ve been caught…karma
Rem03
As a Braves fan, it’s about time MLB punished another team as hard as the Braves.
Stripping the team of the WS title is futile. Whether you say they didn’t win it or not, they cheated or not, they still won it and you can’t change that.
Alex Cora devised this process, he might get a couple years to a lifetime ban.
the guru
I’m actually shocked at how light this punishment is. Can’t believe it wasn’t harsher. Sad.
Weak leadership in MLB with Manfred and Torre…absolutely weak people running the show.
Cheat away players and teams. Go get you a world series i guess is the mesage. .
jdgoat
Light? Did you think they were gonna blow up Minute Maid Park?
the guru
they did nothing to hurt the team. Their were no sanctions. No titles taken away. 5$MM? lol they give that to many Dominicans who never see the light of day in mlb. this is nothing.
DarkSide830
dang this is juicy
goastros123
It’s easy to tell who on this post had realistic expectations and who had unrealistic expectations.
NatsFan15
When players cheat, I expect them to be punished.
This is the only time I am aware of where players cheated and don’t face any sort of penalty. Corked bats, PEDs…. all face suspensions. Knowing what pitch was coming was even more helpful. And… nothing.
billysbballz
When you consider as a Yankee fan being eliminated twice by the Astros and watching your biggest rival also use this technology and win a one year suspension is a joke. Both championships should come with an asterisk and ownership should have to pay a huge fine on top of that.
king joffrey
Boo hoo hoo, poor Yankees and their fans. Jeffrey Maier still up in the owner’s box?
wordonthestreet
Yankees were robbed of a pennant and possible world series
gtb1
Beltran and Cora set the whole thing up. Luchnow and Crane knew nothing. Hinch took a bat to the monitor once he found out.
New York, Boston have already been fined for cheating with almost no publicity. Nobody goes into LA without changing their signs. They all do it. Eliminate live feeds of the catcher’s crotch. This doesn’t add to the viewer’s experience but is what led to this whole mess getting exploited. Cheating in baseball has always been part of the game. For all of you ethics majors, this is the SAME principal as for any other method of relaying a signal to the batter as to what pitch is likely coming. I get that high def is different but the ethics are the same. The two ringleaders were Beltran and Cora. It isn’t fair that Hinch and Luchnow will serve their time. Let’s see what the commish does to Beltran and Cora and their respective teams.
empirejim
It’s not fair? Hinch KNEW they were cheating but didn’t put an end to it. Luhnow tried to play the “I didn’t know” card. They got busted and lightly from my point of view. Props to MLB for showing at least a little spine. If Hinch and Luhnow had ANY respect for the game they wouldn’t be picking their noses for a year…..
nymetsking
can they pick someone else’s?
MoRivera 1999
gtb1
Stop with these lies. Yanks were not fined for cheating. Sox were fined for sign stealing. Yanks were given a small fine for having a phone, not cheating. Big difference.
pasha2k
GTB AJ was just as guilty as them all n deserves his just dos as will Cora. But the fans got the biggest punishment didn’t we? Ultimately the fans pay for it.
Bluemarlin528
Luhnow & HInch enjoy your non-paid vacation.
Should’ve been a lifetime ban in my opinion.
lsujedi
Thank God for your opinion. The 2017 champion Astros thank you also.
MoRivera 1999
*Asterisks
DarkSide830
clsssic Mets. hire a rookie manager who will get imediately suspended.
jaysfansince1977
Actually no players are facing any disciplinary action! so Beltran who was a player at the time is safe.
MoRivera 1999
If the Mets had any integrity or sense, they would fire Beltran now and move on. They guy will be disrespected across the country. So much for the HOF.
HarryO
I agree. He may not be penalized now as part of this incident but it WILL be an issue come HOF voting time. Also, as was mentioned on SNY he probably wouldn’t have gotten the Mets mgr job if this report had come out before he was selected. Another “interesting” year coming up in Queens!
johnwhitney2000
Not severe enough. This won’t stop another team. Should have taken international bonus rights limiting to make of 10,000 max to a player for two years as well and lifetime bans. Then no one would do again
bigdaddyhacks
Better than expected I guess, still wanted more. They should have been banned. At this point let Pete should be let back in.
jdgoat
Did they announce if they actually stole signs during the playoffs? If they did, the championship should be stripped. If it was only during the regular season, I think it’s fine to keep it. It’s already tarnished enough.
I’m glad to see Hinch seemed to be not ok with it. He seems like a good man and one of the few respectable people in that organization. He didn’t do what he should have, but at least this report makes it seem he wasn’t on board with it.
MoRivera 1999
Per Charles Russell, a commenter below:
From MLB:
“For the Postseason, a portable monitor was set up on a table to replace the monitor that had been affixed to the wall near the dugout.”
wordonthestreet
Of course they stole them during the 2017 post season on route to the championship
Mr.Soanes
CoughPeteRoseCough
kenphelps44
If it turns out the Astros pitchers were also tampering with the ball to add higher spin rate as Trevor Bauer claims then another investigation should be conducted and the claim is proven then Luhnow and Hinch should receive lifetime bans much like the Cardinals former scouting director and convicted felon Chris Correa received for hacking into the Astros scouting computer mainframe.
Cincyfan85
Sounds fair. Depending upon the Red Sox findings, Cora should be looking at 1 year or worse. I think Carlos Beltran should have been punished though.
WarrenSpahn
So very, very disgusting
Self-righteous, pompous Hinch will now forever be known as a:
CHEATER
the guru
as will all those players.
Rayland#1
They should have to forfeit their World Series “title”, as well.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Wrong. No cheating happened in the playoffs. The Dodgers should have beaten them if they were better. They didn’t. Also, players have come out and said the banging on the garbage can was not all that helpful; in fact it was more distracting than helpful. Face it, the Astros were the best team in baseball in 2017 and players should not be punished for having low life managers running their team.
And for the record, I can’t stand the Astros!!!
Charles Russell
No, you are wrong. From MLB:
“For the Postseason, a portable monitor was set up on a table to replace the monitor that had been affixed to the wall near the dugout.”
pplama
Good.
bruinlife33
So if you cheat by using PEDs, the consequences are less? Smh
HailPhire_Osfan
So the players dont face any consequences because the coach and management never corrected their cheating tatics? WTF! Every player on the astros team in 2017 should be suspended and all awards taken away. Or reinstate Pete Rose because cheating does not matter anymore.
mac1brad
Love it!!
HarveyD82
snitches get stitches
MoRivera 1999
Are you an inmate?
JR1953
The punishment should be stronger! But as we know this is baseball and for baseball this is a tough punishment. Luhnow should have gotten two years minimum. Also vacating the World Series win at least in the record books would have been nice. Overall it is pretty strong for baseball. Let’s see what punishment Cora gets??
Dorothy_Mantooth
People are confusing professional sports with college sports. No professional sports league will ever vacate a title, regardless of the what the offense was. I think MLB nailed it here and has set the Houston organization back severely by taking away their draft picks. Houston does a great job identifying talent in the draft and losing their top 4 picks over the next two years will really hurt the Astros for years to come.
MoRivera 1999
No punishment for players or coaches? They ALL were at least complicit if not active participants. They ALL benefited. NONE of them stopped it. Thay ALL deserve fines. The fines should probably have been the amount of the championship shares.
Way too lenient.
Stevesie
Even with this punishment – i dont think it will stop teams from doing it in the future. Unless the WS title is taken away, then the punishment is worth the crime. The team still gets the WS and players get paid. Teams go decades without winning or even getting to a WS. By these rules, teams know they can cheat, win, and then deal with fines/suspensions/loss of draft picks for a few years before they can compete again. Until then they have their title to admire. That seems much more palatable than going 10+ years without a championship.
Players should be held accountable for the cheating as well. How much bigger are some of their contracts as a result of their performance while cheating?
Im not saying these penalties arent harsh – just questioning whether or not they are enough to stop teams/owners/gms/manager/players from doing it moving forward.
the guru
exacatly this does nothing to discourage cheating……message is cheat away folks.
Dorothy_Mantooth
You couldn’t be more wrong. MLB teams are private businesses owned by people who want to make money. How do you make money in MLB? Build a quality team through the draft, sign key free agents, sell out every game and most importantly, make the playoffs as much as you can in order to bring in more revenue. Teams will be scared to death to lose 1st & 2nd round draft picks. Imagine Houston without Bergman, Altuve, and Correra? The losing of the high draft picks (which are solid GOLD) to owners will result in every owner making sure their teams don’t cheat. I have to congratulate Manfried on this; I never thought he’d go this severe on Houston and every team has been put on notice. “You cheat and I’m going to cripple your business”. Hats off to MLB for having the stones to do this.
the guru
lol…..you work for MLB? no one thinks this is harsh punishment. Its already been negated by them being fired.
Stevesie
It is definitely a deterrent for teams moving forward, but if it helps bring home a championship, I just wonder if teams will consider it worth the risk.. While losing the draft picks stings, and “cripples” the team for a few years – they still have a championship. We’ll see how crippled the Astros appear for the next 5+ years by losing these picks.
I doubt teams with long WS droughts like the Indians, Rangers, Brewers, etc. would mind being crippled for a few years if it meant a championship.
pt57
No worries, Cora will get a job with the Patriots.
Sts4255
As a Dodger fan I’d gladly except this punishment if meant winning a World Series.
the guru
exactly this is so weak. Doesn’t hurt the team in any way and this punishment doesn’t discourage any team from cheating. They will just plug in some unknown manager to cheat and win world series he’ll get paid and be on his way. sad how weak this was.
bjhaas1977
The Blackstros
8
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL suspend the whole 40 man roster for a year
Paul Heyman
Didn’t Beltran deny he was apart of this or he denied the Astros did this?
Buck Jones
I was Beltran’s idea initially and Cora went along with it.
titanic struggle
Might be time for the Reds to shop some prospects to Houston for Correa. We need a SS, and they’re obviously going to be needing to stock their farm with prospects…
Royalsfan12
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Astros organization! How dare you cheat! That’s it! You are grounded grounded grounded grounded grounded grounded grounded!
goldenmisfit
As a Yankees and Dodgers fan the main punishment I think is very fatal is the GM and manager being suspended for a year. If you know anything about the inns and outs of baseball the GM and manager pretty much run the entire organization.
MannyL
Excellent. Well deserved. I think Cora will lose his job.
kam3hameha
Sorry for the name, I’ve had it since 2017 and I don’t see a reason to change it. We cheated and we are paying the price, no doubt. However, I wanted to address a few things.
First, we didn’t get “caught” cheating. We had a former player call us out. For the “integrity” of the game. Yeah, okay Mike. You got your ring too.
Second, anyone who is saying we should lose our title is absolutely ridiculous. You’re going to punish us fans for what our team did? We had no knowledge of it. Do you also forget that we had Hurricane Harvey devastate us that year? Yeah, take away that championship and what it meant to this city.
I get that other fans are mad, but put yourselves in our shoes. The shoes of Astros fans. We waited all these years for a championship, and now it’s “tainted”, and we have to hear everyone saying we should be stripped of it. Guess what? I guarantee you your team has cheated at some point. What if it was your team? Would you still all be saying that your championship should be erased? It was my understanding that this was a regular season thing and didn’t occur during the playoffs anyways, so you can’t tell me the Dodgers should have rightfully won.
goastros123
I said this before on a past article and I got “Sorry, don’t feel sorry for Astros fan.” and other stuff as a response. I was even once told the Astros fan base as well as Texans in general lack integrity and/or morals.
kam3hameha
There is good and bad in everything. I was at a Texans game when Schaub was nosediving. Anyways, he got injured in the game. Our fans started cheering. I was yelling at all of them. We have ignorant fans, sure. So does every other team. There’s good and bad. Just look at some of the things Yankees fans have done.. Yet almost all of them are saying to strip our title. Glass houses, and all that.
goastros123
The person who told me Astros fans as well as Texans in general lack integrity/morals was most likely a Yankees fan, since he had a Mo4eva or something account. People didn’t like it when I pointed out the hypocrisy and, yes, I brought up how Yankees fans throw garbage on to their home field as well as harass other people.
goastros123
Edit: Some Yankees fans do that and the few don’t represent the majority. I know there are some good Yankees fans out there.
Charles Russell
Your points are terrible.
1.) Astros didn’t get caught, they were just called out? Gee, officer, you didn’t see me steal that car, a bunch of other other people in the neighborhood did, therefore I shouldn’t be charged.
2.) The fans have zero to do with this. Louisville basketball was stripped of 2013 national championship. Oh, the poor fans, they’ve been scraping used cat food cans and living under bridges the past seven years because their lives fell apart. All they wanted was a title, so they could feel warm fuzzies about being fans of a team that won a title. Look, MLB is my favorite sport. But if you value something like a World Series title that bad that, your priorities are messed up.
You’re also wrong about cheating only happening during the regular season. It happened, according to MLB, “throughout the postseason.”
Yeah, if my team did what your team did I would want more punishment than the Astros got. Unlike you, I don’t turn a blind eye to cheaters. Sports is where we’re supposed to play by the rules. There are so many aspects of life where this does not happen. Sports (all of them) needs to be where it always happens.
goastros123
In sports, you also find ways to exploit the rules. Lots of great basketball players have had rules added or changed because of them finding ways to exploit the rules. Reggie Miller used to kick his leg on jump shots in an effort to sell contact and draw fouls. Now there is a saying you can’t do that. People don’t like Bill Belichick but whether any one of us want to admit it or not, the man is a genius at finding ways to “cheat within the rules”. He is a very good coach. I’m not excusing what the Astros organization did nor am I advocating for blatant cheating but I bet if we got a report on just how many teams have cheated some how in baseball, it’d be an eye opening experience for you. Cheating or doing whatever it takes to get ahead is more synonymous with professional sports than you realize. It’s sad but true.
Charles Russell
When the commissioner sends all teams a notice that says: do not do this specific thing, and you continue to do that specific thing, that isn’t “exploiting.” That’s cheating. You are telling the commissioner of your league: we do not care what you think about how we conduct ourselves.
This goes beyond anything you spelled out.
goastros123
Of course it’s cheating. I said cheating is synonymous with professional sports and it is, just as much as gaining an unfair legal advantage is.
kam3hameha
It doesn’t matter what you or I say, they aren’t taking away our title regardless. Sorry to tell you. It just doesn’t work that way, so complain all you want and try to pretend that if it was your team you’d actually want your team to be stripped of their title. I very, very seriously doubt that.
As for the playoffs, I have heard different things. You say that MLB said it did happen throughout the postseason, I’ve heard from others (including someone here) that MLB deemed it did NOT happen during the postseason.
I only brought up Harvey and the fans to try to get a few people to step into our shoes, as fans. Yeah, it meant a lot to me to get a title. We only live one life. I’ve been alive for two Rockets titles and one Astros title. That’s more than some can say, sure. But the point is, these things don’t happen often. It was nice to see one before I die.
I know this doesn’t matter in the slightest in terms of the punishments or the cheating itself. I don’t condone cheating at all, but I know that teams have been doing all they can to steal signs since forever. We are the ones who, as you want to put it, “got caught” and are now the scapegoats, but we sure the heck aren’t the only ones. No, I don’t feel we should lose our World Series for being involved in this. Even if you would want your team to, I can guarantee 99% of fans would not want their title taken away. Also, it must be nice standing on your moral side. Can’t wait for your team to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
puigpower
Delusional.
Boogaloo
No one needs to “take away” their title.
The whole country knows its trash now.
The Astros can never talk proudly about or celebrate it in the future.
So keep your stolen piece of metal, lol.
goastros123
I can talk about how it stands and is official, regardless of what you say or do.
goastros123
I got a white/gold Jose Altuve replica jersey with a 2017 world series patch on the sleeve. I’ll still wear that in public. If any one says anything, I’ll just ask them if they wanted the championship taken away. If they happen to say yes, I’ll remind them that MLB recognizes it as a real and official championship regardless of what fans thinks and that’s what matters.
wordonthestreet
Astros2017 doubling down on the poor fan excuse since Hurricane Harvey … pathetic loser
kam3hameha
I was wrong about one thing – they did apparently do this during the postseason. I can admit that I was wrong there. I do understand why people would say it taints the championship, now.
I wasn’t ever trying to argue that they shouldn’t have been punished, only that they shouldn’t be stripped of the title. I still don’t want that, as a fan, but I can understand why people would call for it.
wordonthestreet
Astros2017
You are pathetic. You got CAUGHT cheating. Jesus you actually brag that you did not get caught red handed like that makes it ok?
The hurricane was terrible. I grant you that. But you thinking your team should be let off for that reason is again pathetic.
Your world series is tainted. Your team cheated? No one cares if the “fans” did not know. Again another pathetic excuse.
You are a sorry excuse for a baseball fan. Its not about YOU!
kam3hameha
I’m not “bragging” that they were ousted by a former player rather than actually being caught. I only bring it up because everyone keeps saying we were “caught”, when in reality we were ousted by someone who benefited from the cheating. Why didn’t Mr. Mike Fiers blow the whistle DURING that season? If the “integrity” of the game is so important to him, wouldn’t you want to let everyone know so they could put a stop to it BEFORE a championship is won? But he got his ring, too.
Again, I only brought up the fans and Harvey to try to get some of these people to put themselves in our shoes as fans and everything we went through that season. I know at the end of the day it doesn’t matter. We cheated, we got caught, we are paying the price. That’s it. We lost our manager and our GM for good. We lost money. We lost draft picks. It’s going to set us back. Other fans are basically dancing on our grave because that’s what they think this is. So it is what it is.
I already stepped up and said that I was wrong when I was told it didn’t happen in the playoffs. It did, and because of that I understand the outrage even more and why fans of other teams are calling for our title. I’m not blindly defending my team, but I guarantee you if this was happening to another fan base almost every fan of that fan base would not want their title taken away either. As a fan, I don’t want that. But as someone sensible, I understand why others do.
Have a good day.
Rangers29
I think this is the right punishment. You can’t put a totally servere punishment on them, because then that is the precedent. If a team manages to do worst than this (which is possible) than they can get a worst punishment. Trust me, I love them losing the 1st and 2nd draft picks for two years, and I think that plus Hinch and Lunhow being out for a year is huge too. Lets go Rangers!
Bluemarlin528
A couple of my key take aways from the “Astro Players” in Manferds report:
“Some Astros players told my investigators that they did not believe the sign-stealing
scheme was effective, and it was more distracting than useful to hitters.”
“Several players told my investigators that there was a sense of “panic”
in the Astros’ dugout after White Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar appeared to notice the trash can bangs. Before the game ended, a group of Astros players removed the monitor from the wall in the tunnel and hid it in an office.”
Guilty!
The maximum allowable fine per the current bargaining agreement is 5 million.
MarinerMiner
Sounds like Hinch trying to cover his rear with that mention that he was aware but not supportive of the cheating. Isn’t it the managers job to, manage the team?
chicagofan1978
Damn they are both fired now
2020vision
The trickle down is the end of the draft. The final few selections in the draft will now be free agents since the draft is short the penalized picks.
Dorothy_Mantooth
That’s quite a reach, 2020vision. The MLB draft has 40 rounds, so over 1,200 players are drafted. I’m not too concerned about players 1,249 & 1,250 not getting drafted. Those signing bonuses in those rounds are around $1,000 – $2,500 per player so no one is really affected by having 2 fewer draft picks in the 2020 & 2021 drafts.
findingnimmo
You’re fired!
Siriusrooney
The only thing I would’ve liked more is to have International signings also affected. Taking away first 2 rounds is well and good but they can get top International talents in the mean time. Sounds like Commissioner Manfred missed a play.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Agreed. They should give them the Braves punishment where they can only sign IFA’s for $10K or less over the next two seasons. That would have made this even better!
8
Hinch and Luhnow got fired
aroundthehorn16
this is still weak! The Astros still have a team that can win the WS. This team screwed the Dodgers out of a ring (2 Rings if you include Cora) and they could still win the WS next year. They should have these punishments plus they should be ineligible for postseason this year.
Dorothy_Mantooth
How did the Dodgers get screwed? After a thorough investigation, it was proven beyond a doubt that none of this sign stealing was being done during any of their playoff series. So the Dodgers just lost to a better team with no advantages other than having better players.
This includes the 2018 loss to the Red Sox too. MLB had representatives in the replay rooms for all playoff series and this did not happen at all during the playoffs. Dodgers fans should be happy that they were asked to be bridesmaids in 2017 & 2018. That’s quite an honor!
MoRivera 1999
B.S. Per MLB, the sign stealing WAS done through the postseason.
Rickey O'Sunnyvale
Stripping the Astros of a world series title would send the strongest message and virtually guarantee that players would not participate in such shenanigans again. If George Springer was blistering all of those balls because he’s cheating and that gives him a ring, why does he care whether owners or managers get fined. He still gets his ring, his money and his glory.
Dorothy_Mantooth
NO CHEATING HAPPENED DURING ANY OF THE PLAYOFF SERIES. Why can’t people understand this? Yes the Astros cheated during the regular season, but there is no question in my mind that they would have won their division without doing so. They were the most talented team in baseball that season and their dumb managers chose to be idiots, and now they are paying as severe a penalty as possible for it. They both were fired by Houston and will never work in baseball again (most likely anyways). The punishment more than fits the crime here. The only other thing that would have been applicable would have been to have Houston removed from the international free agent draft too for 2020 & 2021. That would have been the icing on the cake!
Rickey O'Sunnyvale
Cheating did take place in the post season. Didn’t read the report did you.
The commissioner added of Hinch that MLB “must hold him accountable for the conduct of his team, particularly since he had full knowledge of the conduct and chose to allow it to continue throughout the 2017 Postseason.”
You seem to be living in the Land of Oz Dorothy.
SDHotDawg
Hey, Dorothy … read the report. It did continue in the post-season.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Red Sox need to be proactive and fire Cora immediately. They have a new Gam who doesn’t want any of this on his record, so send Cora packing now and let MLB handle how long he needs to stay out of the game. My guess is that he’ll never find another MLB job again. I have a feeling that Hinch will be back though.
pasha2k
Coras gone as we speak, just not announced.
JScottG
GM Crane just canned Hinch & Luhnow, buy only after he heard they were both suspended for the season. Hopefully both who are very arrogant never get MLB jobs in the future. Lastly if there is justice Alex Cora will get suspended/fired and never work again. Beltran suspended. Cora the worst offender and original implementer who then instituted cheating in back to back years in Boston.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Why would Beltran be suspended? It’s hard to justify suspending a manager who technically has not even started his job yet, for perceived actions as a player when he’s been retired for going on three years now.
MoRivera 1999
Um, no. You don’t get out of illegalities by moving and getting a new job. In MLB, this is illegal activity. If the Mets have integrity or sense, they’ll can him now. And bye bye HOF.
pasha2k
Beltran is very stupid n lucky to escape this but tainted his legacy.
the guru
now that theyre fired….its pretty much negates MLBs punishment of the astros. Punishments means nothing now theyre fired…. so weak its sad.
the guru
these firings nullify mlb’s punishment. sad how weak it was.
goastros123
You had unrealistic expectations and is now very disappointed because of that. We get it.
the guru
we get it, you post every minute on here…trust me we get that you are happy you cheated to win a world series and nothing happened.
goastros123
We get it, you post on here every minute to remind everyone of your unrealistic expectations.
live42day
I agree it should have been more than a 5 million fine, but they did lose their 1st and 2nd round picks for two years in a row.
didi gregorious nose
Well they both got fired, this screams dave dombrowski to me y’all. The astros gotta hire someone with the experience I have money on David d
madmanTX
Astros should be forced to hire Bobby Valentine as punishment. Or maybe Buddy Bell.
live42day
They got fired because they are suspended from baseball for a year. So, does anyone know if the report indicates if the owner had knowledge of this?
AllRiseForTheJudge
Well, that whole punishment thing means nothing now
empirejim
$5MM fine and loss of draft picks still stings the decrepit Astros organization. Hinch and Luhnow still out of the game for at least a year. And how many years will they be taunted everywhere they go with the “cheaters” moniker?
goastros123
Empirejim, Hinch and Luhnow were let go.
SDHotDawg
Well, it hasn’t hurt AJ Preller. He has a very loud minority of loyalists which has caused a division among Padres fans.
Luhnow, Hinch, and probably Cora should be finished in baseball.
arne23
Losers!
perdition2020
Fines and suspensions are cool. Stop stealing draft picks from teams. That is not cool EVER
Just_a_thought
Lol stealing draft picks. You’re confusing a privilege for a right.
perdition2020
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard yet. You win the moron trophy! Taking draft picks harms a team, 2020 and 2021 Astros, that did not cheat. Strip their titles if you can prove they cheated in the Playoffs, other wise, stick to bans fines suspensions and other punishments. This goes for ALL sports. Draft picks should never be on the table unless you can prove the cheating affected their draft position, which was not proven here.
madmanTX
Is this all?? How are all the players involved not being suspended and the Astros stripped of their title?
doxiedevil
Pete Rose was crucified for less.
Josh5890
Pete Rose broke the oldest rule in the damn book.
yankeetbv1
Give back those rings!!!!
UhOh!
So the two teams who cheated keep their Championships? Sounds about right!
Bigguy00
Makes you think that Cards’ guy (who was still wrong) may have been right that Luhnow took Cards’ scouting info when he left. These personnel guys should have to be prohibited from participating in a draft within a year of quitting to change teams. Will Luhnow be paid? I hope not!
Boogaloo
You know how much MLB fans hate you when everyone is calling your world series a fraud when the 2 teams you screwed over the most are the Dodgers and Yankees, lol.
jdgoat
Logan Morrison just came out and said he knows that the Yankees and Dodgers have also been stealing signs like this. Might not be the end for all these organizations.
Boogaloo
Yeah, I’m not going to believe a guy who played for neither team until I see actual proof.
Id love to know what his “first hand knowledge is” lol. Just tell us like Fiers did. Why make the accusation then not elaborate? Sounds like he’s just slinging mud for some reason. You already have all the heat that Fiers will get, so why shut up now?
Watch the Astros sign the stiff.
Boogaloo
No ASTRO fans commenting, but I don’t see any Sox fans either.
Perhaps their magical 2018 season under the “genius” Cora is just as illegal
robb5215
Why are players not held accountable too? They are adults and should be treated accordingly. Cheating is cheating. You would think any team associated with any player or management would get rid of them immediately to keep from getting a stigma from them being part if their team.
bg816
The Commissioner’s office is probably loathe to piss off the Players’ Association right now, which punishing the players would certainly do. Manfred has to walk a tight rope while negotiating the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Red Sox fan here. First of all, the Red Sox scandal wasn’t nearly as bad as the Houston issue. The only time they could have taken advantage of this information is when they had a runner on second base and that didn’t even ensure them of getting the signs right as most teams change signs between innings, if not between batters when teams get a runner on second base anyways.
Also, it has been proven beyond a doubt that no cheating took place during any of the playoff series by either the Astros or the Red Sox. MLB has officials in the replay rooms during all of the playoff series during 2017, 2018 & 2019 and have definitively proven that no cheating occurred. The 2017 & 2018 Astros/Sox teams were very talented and most likely would have made the playoffs without any of this garbage. But one thing is indisputable: the playoffs were clean and no cheating occurred in any of the 3 rounds so the best teams won; end of story.
puigpower
LOL
MoRivera 1999
You keep lying. Per MLB, the Stros were cheating throughout the postseason. (I don’t know about the RS.) Please stop with that lie, though.
live42day
So is a punishment also coming for Carlos Beltran for instigating the trash can sign stealing?
MoRivera 1999
Regardless of what MLB does, hopefully the Mets fire him. It makes no sense to have an infamous manager.
jimthegoat
Raining hammers!
bg816
The punishment Manfred handed down will certainly deter every organization from this form of cheating going forward. GMs (or whatever other organizations give the title) are incredibly important in building winning teams; managers, not as much. Most of all, front office personnel and managers are not going to risk their jobs, salary, and future pensions by crossing lines they know should not be crossed.
I think the loss of the draft picks is definitely the harshest aspect of the punishment and will have an equally deterring affect across the league. As for punishing players involved, I think that was always a non-starter. With the collective bargaining negotiations ongoing and the tough back and forth on a myriad of other issues, the Players’ Association would go ballistic if players were punished in any way, thus further complicating efforts to avoid a future work stoppage. It was actually a smart play on Manfred’s part, in my opinion.
I’m sure other teams employed similar schemes in the past, but I am positive my Twins did not. Sano and Buxton’s inability to differentiate outside sliders from fastballs is all the evidence I need to exonerate!
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’d guess about half of teams cheat to some degree. Astros were just the most blatant. Red Sox are under investigation. We’ll likely hear allegations against a few other teams. But overall, yeah, Manfred made an example of the Astros. Teams are going to have to be either desperate or stupid to try to get away with this again in the near future.
bg816
So you’re saying that you believe the Mets will try to get away with something similar in the near future… 😉
Rallyshirt
This is a huge embarrassment to the state of Texas and soon Massachusetts. It’s an embarrassment to baseball, our national past time. It’s an embarrassment to our nation. And it all could’ve been avoided with just player suspensions.
Sad times, Manfred. Sad times.
bg816
You lost me at it being an embarrassment to certain states in addition to the United States. Outside of MLB’s monopoly exemption, neither state governments nor the federal government had a hand in any malfeasance or a role in exacting the sanctions. Unless this was sarcasm, it’s just a really weird comment. No offense…
Rallyshirt
The Houston Astros and to possibly include the Boston Red Sox are a traveling sports and entertainment franchise representing the highest level of competition, and the citizens of the respective states from which they hail. There’s no sarcasm here. This is terrible.
I’m trying my best to not project too much onto Boston, but as for the Astros, the fans will not except their show at home or on the road. I fear increases in security. There is a nasty, lingering, building hysteria when people who have bound themselves to the love of the game are met with injustice and failure to deliver justice.
bg816
Okay, I kind of understand what you are saying. However, I think you are over blowing it by a mile. Now, if it were the NFL, I’d be more apt to agree with you because NFL fans can be legit nuts. Baseball fans just aren’t the type to cause necessary increases in security because of some perception that a punishment wasn’t severe enough. There will be no rioting over Manfred’s decisions. Again, this is baseball, not a life and death political/policy issue. Take a deep breathe, all will be well.
Rallyshirt
If you’re saying baseball fans are not as intensely reactive as football or hockey fans, I would tend to agree. But this is about justice first and people don’t like this kind of stuff.
For example, if I asked you to pay me huge money to lie to your children, would you be passive about that? If your brother is in the minor leagues busting his tail to be ready for a call up and the league allows 30 or so indicted players to take the field, while your bro sits eating a TV dinner on a Saturday night? That doesn’t mean anything? How about that flag waving in the sky stating the world series champions in 2017 don’t include the likes of players who played their best that season and didn’t win the honor because of a cheating campaign? What if that was their best performance ever in their life? For an overly PC society filled with activist for peace and justice, baseball just takes a flop in the year 2020.
The Players Association is next up to do something about the ASTRO players that season. If they pass the buck, then the whole system is corrupt, and fans will take their bowl of warm water with a peel of cabbage and call it soup. So yeah, there’s going to be unfortunate actions which could suspend play, player getting hit by a beer bottle, this could and probably should get ugly. And it could’ve been avoided if the dirty work of cleaning up the garbage was complete. You’re gonna root for Houston? Come on.
glassml
Nope not the rest of Texas. We hate the Stros and the organization should be embarrassed. There are cheaters everywhere in life. MLB caught them and hit them with the stupid stick.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Glad Manfred hammered them. It was an even harsher penalty than I thought it’d be. If other teams are found guilty, I hope they’re hit hard, too, even if it’s one of my favorite teams.
bg816
I agree, except I would have written, “EXCEPT if it’s one of my favorite teams,” just in keeping with comment section irrationality. 😉
hyraxwithaflamethrower
lol. What can I say? Honor before White Sox.
Rallyshirt
One of, if not the first to notice the Astros cheating tactics being a White Sox makes for an interesting redemption angle. Couple that with the very same player’s tragic and mysterious in game brain anyrism the following season, and there’s making of an even greater conspiracy.
Scrap1ron
Cora should be fired and blackballed from the league for being the ringleader who tainted two organizations and consecutive World Series Champions. As for the players involved, the excuse that “we wouldn’t have done it if management said not to” is bs. What, are they 5 year olds? However, their punishment will come from the fans and their fellow peers. Imagine the greeting they’ll get from the fans at away games. There will be lots of smack talk on the field too. It’s going to be an interesting year.
sufferforsnakes
Why aren’t the players involved being heavily penalized/punished, too?
They should all get hit with hefty fines AND long suspensions.
Drop the hammer, big time.
jdgoat
My guess is that there’d be a never ending run of suspensions since it’s pretty widespread across the league. I also saw someone say the MLBPA would never allow player interviews with the league if they were at risk of suspensions.
bg816
Don’t want to poke the hornets’ nest that is the Players Association while negotiating the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. Plus, it’d be difficult to determine who did what and to what degree of severity. It’d be a mess and would likely inadvertently punish innocent players. Players aren’t going to snitch on each other; in this case, snitches would undoubtedly get stitches….
hyraxwithaflamethrower
While I agree that ideally, those who took part or knew about it should be punished, it was never really going to happen. For one thing, determining the level of guilt would be next to impossible. Second, the union would just cry foul over every accusation and appeal. Third, I think Manfred wanted to make a statement, not a long court battle. This was the right call.
bg816
hyrax, we seem to be in agreement on almost everything here, and this concerns me as a Twins fan. I have no option but to reassess my opinions on the matter because, really, how am I agreeing with a White Sox fan? Full moon?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’ll put your mind at ease: Twins are bound for regression this year, have lost some WAR off last year’s roster, while the Indians have stood pat and the White Sox have gotten a lot better. It will be a 3-team race to the bitter end.*
*This comment changes if the Twins wind up with Donaldson.
g8752
This is horrible news for the Boston Red Sox and the Astros. I never would have guessed Houston and Boston both won their World Series improperly. My guess is that in addition to Alex Cora being suspended for one season like what happened to AJ Hinch I have to think that the Red Sox might even fire him over this news. I don’t know what more to say other than I am really disappointed and Alex Cora to say the least.
g8752
I just find it really hard to believe that all the players on the Houston Astros and all the players on the Boston Red Sox agreed to do something like this because they surely knew what was going on?
g8752
If you think about it what we’re really saying is that there’s not one honest player manager or coach in the entire Houston Astros or Boston Red Sox organization as they all had to know that this was going on. And if this was going on in Houston and in Boston and there was not one honest person to be had then it must be widespread throughout all of baseball and everybody acknowledges that it’s just the way that it is. Is that unreasonable to wonder if that’s the case? And this doesn’t justify what they’ve done it as it must be the culture of the game in a widespread way.
g8752
What’s also really puzzling is that the Houston Astros with Alex Cora as their bench manager beat Boston in 2017 to go to the World Series and to have him come to Boston as the manager and cheat must have pissed off a lot of players in Boston that just lost Houston in the previous year. So this really doesn’t make a lot of sense? This had to be business as usual in the MLB.
g8752
Here’s something else to consider. It seems that we have to use signs because the catcher has to know what’s coming and the fielder’s have to know how to position them self. So perhaps they could go to some kind of a safe electronic wireless system like what they use in football to convey information to the quarterback and linebacker?
rivera42
They got off light. And no, I’m not talking about taking the WS from them. Also, that $5 million max fine is ridiculously low. It should be five, if not ten, times that.
bg816
Contractually, $5 million was the maximum allowable fine. I wonder what parties were involved in that contract negotiation, though. And now that I re-read your comment, it’s obvious you know the $5 million was the max fine…
Reggie Bars
No, they didn’t get off light.
NatsFan15
How about the cheating players who devised, implemented, and benefited from this operation? Did they get off light?
rivera42
No, actually, they did get off light. This is not a deterrent in any way. Totally worth it considering they won a WS. They didn’t even lose any IFA money, not to mention that not a single player was punished.
megaj
Great job by Manfred on this. Other clubs like the Cardinals should definitely be paying attention
Surly
Weak response by the commissioner. As usual they put future profits above doing the right thing. First and foremost, it was a failure of the commissioners office having not spelled out clear consequences for this form of cheating. Secondly, the players who came up with this idea and then implemented it should be held accountable. By punishing management and not the cheaters themselves, MLB is effectively saying that the players are children incapable of understanding their actions. Somewhat similar to how steroid users have been let off the hook by and large, particularly as compared to their ‘lynching’ of Pete Rose. But also different, in that mlb didn’t hold management responsible for Rose’s actions. This is seemingly a new precedent, but really it’s the same tired stance in which the commissioner protects the majority of its players but most importantly ownerships profits.
SDHotDawg
There is zero moral equivalency between Pete Rose and this situation. None. And it is dumb to try and claim otherwise.
NatsFan15
Agreed. And while you say steroid users have been let off the hook… I agree to some degree, but any players who have been definitively proven to have cheated via PEDs faced some sort of punishment. That’s at least SOMETHING.
Aircool
That’s it? That was like the minimum they could do.
I don’t know how anyone can characterize that as harsh. 1 year suspension for Luhnow and Hinch, why not 5/10/Lifetime? Those would be harsh.
If you really want to make an example of people, you strip the championship, take the rings back from the players, and you send those rings to Cooperstown. That’s punishment. “Hey, you’re forever enshrined as a member of the team that cheated.”
This was a relative slap on the wrist. If you asked all the owners in the league if they’d sign up for this punishment in exchange for a 100 win season and a World Series title, most of them wouldn’t blink. Not saying they’d take it, because I’d like to think they have integrity, but… They wouldn’t be deterred by this punishment at all.
g8752
With widespread gambling going on in sports such as DraftKings Etc there will likely be an uproar with people that lost money gambling on a situation where cheating was going on.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
That’s an interesting point, but I don’t see what’s realistically going to happen. Without the cheating, whether the hitter was sitting on the fastball anyway would be unknown and unknowable now. Proving there was cheating is easy, proving the extent to which it affected the game is more difficult.
MoRivera 1999
Whoever lost a bet over a game cheated in should be pissed.
g8752
It won’t matter if they can prove it affected the outcome as any logical gambler will think twice about gambling again with this cheating question hanging over the possible outcome of their bets. It’s hard enough just trying to do the analytics. Would you gamble again on a sporting event without having this question cross your mind? It has to hurt sports betting. That’s why the MLB has to come down so hard on it. Sports betting is now a big business.
benimble
I am of the opinion that any player who actively participated and benefited from the scheme should be punished as well. It serves as a deterrent to future schemes that the players might employ using technology.
OtisSnord
In keeping with their well documented fundamental lack of integrity. the Astros will henceforth be known as the Half-Astros.
AllinTX
Or Trashtros?
MoRivera 1999
Other suggestions above are Asterisks* and Blackstros
66TheNumberOfTheBest
This punishment is simultaneously not nearly enough and much more than I thought MLB would do.
AllinTX
What a joke of a “hammer”
Beltran and any other players needed to be suspended for a year. The GM a year, the manager 3 years. And Cora permanently and fined his salary for the last 3 years.
The 4 picks and 5MM for a billion dollar Astros entity is like me paying 25 cents for a speeding ticket. I’m pretty sure ANY organization would trade 4 picks and 5MM for a championship.
Furthermore, if the league didn’t want to suspend any players. They could’ve at least been fined 25-50% of their salary.
redfrog
“As for the players themselves, the Commissioner’s Office will not be seeking out punishment against them. ……..He’s also clear to note that multiple players acknowledged they were keenly aware that they were crossing a line and would have stopped had Hinch or another authority figure cracked down on the behavior”
OK – if not seeking punishment for their actions, at a minimum the players involved should all be named as co-conspirators!!!!
Dock_Elvis
“An unprecedented level of disciple” Really? Pete Rose….Black Sox….Buck Weaver was banned for LIFE for simply being AWARE of the 1919 Series fix..even though Comiskey refused to speak with him about it. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were also banned for gambling for awhile.
holycowdude
THE HOUSTON ASTERICKS
creacher
Should be no cap on this fine
CrookedAsstros
Should have banned them both for life and put an asterisk on their banner lol