While most of this year’s top-tier free agents could stuff new-team swag in their family’s stockings, veteran third baseman Josh Donaldson remains unsigned a third of the way through January. That’s nothing compared to the laborious matchmaking processes we witnessed last year. And it’s hardly uncommon historically. But it does leave us with at least one protracted offseason drama to witness.
It has seemed at times as if momentum could be building toward a signing. But the latest run of reporting injects new uncertainty into the body of publicly reported information regarding the bidding.
Perhaps growing impatient with the increasingly drawn-out nature of the Donaldson negotiations, and/or seeking leverage in talks, the Twins have begun to explore the trade market for alternative approaches to improving their club, Dan Hayes and Aaron Gleeman of The Athletic report (subscription required). The Twins, per the report, have “seen an uptick” in the volume of trade talks over the past three days as they explore additions at a variety of positions. The club isn’t limiting itself to corner infield options and remains open to adding a starting pitcher if the opportunity presents itself.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post’s Jesse Dougherty writes that the Nationals have “all but moved on from Donaldson.” That’s perhaps contradictory with recent reporting indicating that the Nats haven’t pulled their offer, but the two could also coexist. It’s plausible, for instance, that the Nationals could leave their previously standing offer on the table but that the team also doesn’t intend to actively pursue a signing and doesn’t expect to land Donaldson. At minimum, with Starlin Castro, Howie Kendrick, Eric Thames and Asdrubal Cabrera all in the fray, the D.C. org obviously feels no pressure to push up its bid.
At this point, it’s fair to wonder just how close the Donaldson camp will get to the third baseman’s reported asking price — said just a few days ago to sit in the vicinity of $110MM. Ever since Anthony Rendon signed, we’ve heard talk of heavy interest in Donaldson. And an expectation has emerged more recently that he would enter the rarefied nine-figure realm. Indeed, as we discussed last week, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported that the Twins, Nationals and Braves “all have four-year offers out to [Donaldson] in that $100MM range.”
What exactly constitutes the “$100MM range” is perhaps subject to some degree of interpretation, but the most recent reports out of Minnesota and Atlanta don’t exactly dovetail with that line of thinking. 1500 SKOR North radio’s Darren Wolfson suggested that the Twins’ offer was more in the $80-85MM range, while MLB.com’s Mark Bowman reported on doubt as to whether the Atlanta organization was even close to the top bidder.
Notably, Dougherty writes in the aforementioned Washington Post column that the Nationals did indeed make a four-year, $100MM offer to Donaldson. But it’s important to bear in mind that, with the Nationals more than any other club, the surface-level number of an offer can be somewhat misleading. The Nationals utilize deferred money in their long-term contracts more than any club in baseball, and while there’s been no firm indication that their offer to Donaldson marked a continuation of that trend, it’d hardly be a surprise to learn that’s indeed the case. The Nats, after all, have baked deferrals into the contracts of Max Scherzer, Stephen Strasburg, Patrick Corbin, Anibal Sanchez and Matt Wieters in recent years. One of the primary reasons that Rendon was said to have spurned Washington’s final extension offer (seven years, $215MM) was because of significant deferred monies.
The question, then, is where the price pressure will come from at this point if Donaldson and his reps at MVP Sports Group are truly determined to secure a deal in the vicinity of that reported $110MM price point. That Donaldson remains unsigned well into January — Hayes notes that the Twins originally believed he preferred to sign prior to Christmas — suggests that none of the bidders have been willing to do so. And the loss of the Nationals as a driving force could leave Donaldson with two highly cost-conscious organizations patiently engaged in a staring contest.
MVP was able to find $300MM for Manny Machado last February, so we may presume some patience on that side of the table as well. But it’s tougher in this case to identify a club that could emerge as a viable nine-figure suitor for an already 34-year-old third baseman, even after an elite 2019 season. The Dodgers, Rangers, Phillies, and others could afford to but haven’t shown any appetite for a massive, lengthy pact. One or more of those clubs could in theory jolt the market a bit by dangling higher-AAV, shorter-term offers. But even in that scenario, getting into the desired realm would still require prodding the Atlanta and/or Minnesota organizations into stretching their valuations yet further. It could ultimately turn out that D.C. is the only place Donaldson can reach the century mark — even if only in nominal form, depending upon deferrals — though that could certainly still change.
It was always going to be difficult to push Donaldson into this rarefied air. As we debated our top 50 free agent list, we felt there’d be broad and strong interest in the hot corner stalwart. But we ultimately capped the prediction at three years and $75MM based upon his age and health history.
To be sure, we’ve rarely seen a player of quite this present-day ability available on the open market at this precise age. But the data points available suggest that teams have been unwilling both to extend on the length of the deal and to pay a premium annual salary. Kevin Brown was the original $100MM player. So far as we can ascertain, he’s also still the only man to receive a total promise of that magnitude entering his age-34 or later season. (The news of his signing was met with rather boldly stated consternation from some notable figures around the game.) Carlos Beltran was a monster in 2011, his age-34 season, but settled for a two-year, $26M deal in the ensuing winter. His health and performance trajectory in advance of free agency closely mirror those of Donaldson. Much more recently, Ben Zobrist secured four years, but at a relatively modest $56MM guarantee. Defensively limited slugger Edwin Encarnacion took down $60MM over three years entering his age-34 season.
TheJuiceness
LOL. No comments. Everyone is tired of talking about it. I’m tired of reading about it. I say no more JD articles until he has actually signed somewhere.
craignickels
agreed.
braveshomer
yep agreed lol
Col_chestbridge
(I think comments were down for a bit)
I am surprised we havent heard more from the Dodgers. They supposedly wanted to go lower years, higher AAV with Harper last year. Seems to me they could sweep in and get Donaldson with something like 3 years/90m. They can afford it – it would not put them over to any luxury tax line and they would be first time offenders anyway. And the money rolling off the books in 2020 and 21 means they wouldnt be pushing it there either if they so choose.
Unless he has a 100m offer on the table, this is exactly what the Dodgers should be looking for
steelerbravenation
Atlanta got 4 years on the table
So does the Nats & possibly the Twins
Why would he want to go to the Dodgers for 3
The whole point in him sitting this long is to get the longest deal for the most money
steelerbravenation
And I am done talking bout Donaldson he is making me not like him.
I am at the point sign Ozuna give Camargo 3B until Riley is ready & trade Waters & Newk for Clevinger and for all the that’s not enough guys on here I am not saying that is all to give Cleveland but those 2 would be the main ingredients
elmore80
I’d rather move Freddie Freeman for Betts and let Camargo and Riley play the corners Get younger and save money. maybe we can afford Betts as a free agent after playing with RA and Ozzie.Red Sox won’t do it but it makes sense for the Braves.
gata
Trading Freeman may be the worst comment ever….
bc85
Stupid idea of the year so far…..congrats
bhambrave
Too bad they got rid of the downvote. This one deserves it.
RLD
Donaldson seems greedy now. I’d say move on from him We don’t need Ozuna though. If we are going to sign another outfielder, try and sign Castellanos, he has played 3rd. I say Riley will be fine anyway, he will hit 30+ hrs. in a full season. Camargo is the one I’d be nervous about. He seem to quit on the team last year. I can see the Braves signing a cheap pitcher either a starter or reliever. I think the bench pretty much is set with Culberson, Duval/Markakis, Camargo/Riley, 2/catchers, Joyce maybe. I could see the Braves maybe signing Wood or Vizzy if they don’t sign soon and they think they are healthy.
DakotaJoe
There are several reasons for him to do a 3year/$90M deal from Dodgers. If this article is correct he may not have received more than $90M from Atlanta or Minny. And if Washington is deferring a lot of money then $90M over three years is a great offer.
BlueSkyLA
Current rumors having him receiving offers of four years at over $100M. We’ll know if that is true if and when he accepts one. My point is if he does have one of these on the table it’s very unlikely to be from the Dodgers. Unless they are playing this in ultra-stealth mode, the Dodgers aren’t even in the conversation at this point. Which, given where the asking price has seemingly gone, is no surprise.
BlueSkyLA
I’m not. Once the bidding got up to $100M we had to know that the Dodgers were going to be out of the running. They haven’t guaranteed that kind of money to anybody yet.
(It looks like the comments were down for about 5-6 hours. A lot of withdrawal symptoms out there.)
The Human Rain Delay
They are afraid of their own shadow Col-
They are afraid to put pen to paper , at this point, we are afraid as well when they weld that power
Id love Donaldson, I think the Front office is afraid of his personaility and thats the hold up- Coincidentally, I think Donaldsons personaility is just what we need 2020
BlueSkyLA
What about his personality?
UGA_Steve
Please enlighten me as to why you think his personality is a problem? I keep reading remarks like this, but his teammates like him and his intensity .. at least in Atlanta. Maybe that is not the fit in LA, but I don’t understand why people keep bringing up his personality.
darmstrong92
In all fairness, I think it was Ken Rosenthal that wrote about how his personality would fit in with LA a while back and that started a lot of the talk you hear about it. It may not have been KR but I do remember reading about it on The Athletic.
It’s not a bad thing though. He’s just very fiery, for lack of a better word. Intense. I also don’t remember Ken necessarily saying it was a bad thing, just that it was completely different than what LA would be used to in their clubhouse. Atlanta’s team had some personality in ’19 and JD, Acuña and Albies were a huge part of that.
The Human Rain Delay
I don’t Steve,I think his personaility is a blessing and exactly what we need-
Hes too brash for this FO imo, they like to have control of everything and are very wary of who they bring in already-
Their extent of taking a gamble is farting after a bowl of chili, I just dont see Donny a fit with these stiffs for all the reasons darmstrong already explained above
DarkSide830
agreed. tired topic.
SalaryCapMyth
The market has taken Donaldson as far as it will go. Remaining unsigned will only hurt him the longer he waits. Its difficult to believe he will take it as far as Keuchel though.
I do have to echo sentiments already expressed above. It’s gotten old and we are all ready to see this end but this is his life.
doxiedevil
Blocked ?
RunDMC
Thank god for no comments (for now) from ForestCobraAL.
Eatdust666
Also none from StewartnBuck yet. Man, that guy really needs to go to a Mental Ward.
braveshomer
whatever happen to ‘Allourgodsabannoedus’? same as Forest AL?! lol smh
adc6r
shhhhhhhh!
doxiedevil
Todd Frazier come on down !
Appalachian_Outlaw
Braves need to pay the man the 110, and get it done. By the time he might start to slip, 2/3rds of your OF and at least two rotation arms will be making relative peanuts. So you can have Pache, Waters, Donaldson, Anderson and Wright for 30-35m essentially. This shouldn’t take a whole ton of thought.
steelerbravenation
Freeman needs to be extended how much does he get if Donaldson is getting $110 ?
3/75 woulda been my limit but ok you wanna give him the 4th year fine but not at $110 million. Those last 2 years are gonna hurt. Now if you said 2/60 I would say ok but he wouldn’t go for that. He already bet on himself once he wouldn’t do it again
vacommish
Braves also would be getting a compensatory pick for the QO and that has value. Resigning him forgoes the pick (and they owe one to the Giants for Smith), so there is value that had to be accounted for in signing Donaldson. Couple that with the 4th year and now super high ceiling and it is a lot for the organization to accept.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I honestly am not worried about picks at this juncture, and Atlanta shouldn’t be either. It’s time to win. If the rationale is we need to let our clean up hitter walk to recoup the pick we spent on a closer, signing the closer was a poor decision. I don’t believe that’s the intent, however.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Freeman isn’t that close to FA, and he’s not going to get a monumental raise when he gets there. The market just doesn’t materialize for 1B the same. Even if you give him the same AAV as Donaldson, you’re talking an extra 4-5 mil a yr. With the sweetheart deals Acuna and Albies signed, and all the youngsters making nearly nothing, that should be doable. If not, there’s way more questions that need to be asked as to the why.
BlueSkyLA
Is four years and $100M really a “massive” contract today? Seems pretty average now for upper-level free agents, especially with the number of $30M+/year contracts being handed out for the top free agents attached to over $200M guarantees these days. Beltran’s contract is too long ago and Brown’s way too long ago to be comps for Donaldson.
macstruts
It has gotten old, but last year Donaldson bet on himself and this is his first and only bite and at the big contract.
He should take his time, he should get as much as he can, and he should player where he wants.
He’s the difference between being favored to win the division and battling for a wild card. I wish him luck.
bravesfan1970
Yeah, I tried to comment when the story was first posted, but comments seemed to be blocked or were otherwise non-functioning. Anyway, thanks to everyone who said something to the effect of “I’m tired of hearing about this” or “No more stories about JD until he actually signs”. I think everyone is sick of hearing about it. This reminds me of the J.T. Realmuto trade rumors last year–it seems like we were subjected to that nonsense on a daily basis for almost the entire winter. I think the Donaldson contract rumors this year might even be worse.
adc6r
I think the site was down part of yesterday or at least not taking posts…
I hope it was maintenance and not some sort o cyber attack
its_happening
Atlanta should explore Bryant or sign an OF bat and give 3B to Riley/Camargo. The 4th year (and maybe 3rd) is a problem when you want to use that money to fill the inevitable holes. They have prospects. Get it done.
macstruts
No one is going to trade for Bryant right now until after the hearing.
I.M.O, the longer it goes, the greater the chance he’ll win his hearing. This decision is going to have a huge impact on baseball, and it’s as obvious as obvious can be that the Cubs manipulated his service time.
its_happening
Someone has to say it, so I will.
Who cares about the hearing! Let that play out. Bryant will play regardless of a decision, whether it’s with the Cubs or otherwise. This is a bogus excuse. Any team not wanting to do business with the Cubs and Bryant because of this hearing should fire their GM tomorrow morning. If Bryant makes your team better and in a position to win you get him. Leave the off-field stuff off the field.
steelerbravenation
What are you talking about. The cost of Bryant in terms of prospects going back is a huge deal for 1 year of control compared to 2.
chesteraarthur
No one is saying it because that’s an awful take. There is a difference in value for 1 yr vs 2 for the team acquiring him.
UGA_Steve
Wow, just … WOW.
First off, it matters to the Cubs. They will get more in return for him if he has two years left. Secondly, it matters to teams wanting to trade for him. You simply will not have to give up as much for one year as two .. and if you give up talent for two years and he loses the hearing, you just cost yourself captial.
Sorry, but your take is ridiculous and that is why no one else has said it.
its_happening
Just wow? All of you above and including Steve, do you care about winning a World Series? Rhetorical question, it’s a no.
See, you want to play the “team control” card without bringing winning and losing into the equation. If you are a GM and you are looking to win you go get Bryant, one year of control or two, if you believe you can win the 2020 World Series. If a team wants to protect themselves with a contingency in the deal which would allow players to be named later after the decision, make it happen. For a team chasing a championship this would be a no-brainer.
bhambrave
You’re moving the goalposts. First you said that service time doesn’t matter, then you said to have a contingency.
bhambrave
From what I’ve see in the CBA, I don’t think service time manipulation is breaking any rules. I think the Cubs are going to win.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Look, Donaldson gambled on himself last year and won, so he absolutely deserves whatever he ultimately signs for, and if it’s less than 4/100 one could make the argument that he’s being slightly underpaid. But right now he’s acting like a guy holding a royal flush in spades.
If he continues to overplay his hand, he’s going to end up with another 1-year deal in the 15MM range and have to hope he stays healthy and produces a second time. It sounds to me like he really doesn’t want to play for the Nationals, tbh.
Moneyballer
In conclusion: we have no idea what is going on.
Vandals Took The Handles
At least 90% of the rumors reprinted from articles and Twitter in which the authors are competing for clicks, have no basis in fact.
Happens 24/7/365, and is especially intense at this time of year.
Vandals Took The Handles
3B along with LF are the least important defensive positions. And if a 3B misses a ball, he has the LF to back him up. The 1B has to field grounders and charge bunts as the 3B does. But he also has to act as a cut-off man, take throws from the other infielders, hold a runner on, take pickoff throws and then sprint to his position when the pitcher throws the ball to the batter.
Donaldson is a very good 3B. It’s fun to watch him dive on replays. But the fact is – he’s simply not involved in that many plays. So keep in mind that if the Twins sign him and move Sano to 1B (when he can’t play 3B), they’re going to weaken their overall defense.
Donaldson’s a terrific run producer – so is Nelson Cruz….who played last year for $14m.
I’m not saying that Donaldson sucks. I’m saying that he’s an above average player that is holding out for a contract that most teams don’t want to pay. Maybe he’ll get the money anyway. As the article points out, his reps got Manny the money last year. Rest assured that the Padres owner, fans and even the FO realized that he couldn’t turn that team around, and are now accepting that his contract is about to burn the Padres almost as badly as the other 2 long-term free agent contracts they gave out. Like Machado, Donaldson is a very good complimentary above average player (it’s great to bat behind Acuna Jr., Albies, and Freeman). He’s made the mistake of waiting for an overpay, so his potential suitors have mostly taken other avenues to improve themselves. He may be this years Keuchel / Kimbrel – sitting half the season waiting for a contender to give him a pro-rated contract.
BlueSkyLA
I can’t agree that 3B is a relatively unimportant position defensively. A good 3B can turn a double into an out. You might as well say that an outfielder always has a wall behind him.
Vandals Took The Handles
“I can’t agree that 3B is a relatively unimportant position defensively. A good 3B can turn a double into an out.”
_
So can a good 1B. And a good SS and 2B can turn a hit into a double play.
The fact is that a good 1B can do far more to help his team on defense then a 3B. To start – he touches the ball more then any player other then the P or C.
Before the DH, GM’s / Managers hid their good-hitting bad-fielders primarily at 3B and LF. Some hid them at 1B, and paid the price.
Branch Rickey always valued quality defensive 1B’s when he was running the Cardinals and later the Dodgers. I first found out about it listening to a local telecast with Vin Skully – who started broadcasting the Dodgers in 1952. He noted that from Jackie Robinson to Gil Hodges to Wes Parker to Ron Fairly to Steve Garvey (great at scooping up bad throws) Al Campanis continued the Dodger Way that Rickey created.
Quality defensive 3B’s and LF’s are nice to have. But the other 6 defensive positions are far, far more important.
bhambrave
Most teams hid bad fielders at 1B and LF. 3B was more important defensively because the players has to field batted balls from right handed hitters, and there are a lot more of them. 1B spends more of his time receiving throws from the other infielders. There’s a reason why they call 3B (and not 1B) the “Hot Corner”.
BlueSkyLA
I don’t think bad fielders can realistically be hidden anywhere except on AL teams (and don’t get me started on that). Arguably the closest you can come is LF since it doesn’t require the most speed or a particularly good arm. The value of a good defensive first baseman is badly underrated. Stick somebody over there who’s a fencepost with a glove and he’ll make you pay no matter how well he can swing the bat. As for 3B, I’ve seen too many defensive wizards at that position over the years to believe that it’s a good place to hide someone who can’t glove it. YMMV…
jbigz12
blogs.fangraphs.com/where-defensive-opportunities-…
I encourage all of you to read this. It’s not 1985. With all the defensive shifting done in Baseball; 3B has become one of the most important defensive positions.
Appalachian_Outlaw
There’s a scenario where you’re not wrong, and there’s one where you couldn’t be more wrong. The difference is the pitcher. If you got a guy on the bump that generates a lot of flyballs, it fine. If your pitcher induces a lot of grounders, the logic here is flawed.
RLD
Donaldson WON’T be Keuchel/Kimbrel this year. They both wanted way-more than Josh is wanting this year. He will sign for 100-110 million. Don’t really care if it is with the Braves or not. Braves aren’t in a have-to position. Riley will be just fine on 3rd.
Ejemp2006
Jeesh! Sign with the Padres for 4/120. Get it over with.
Tazbk
Once again I don’t believe Atl has a bid at 100 mil or over. They don’t do those type of deals. Fully believe Nats have a 100 at least but with deferrals. He isn’t signing until March and there will be no honesty about what was actually offered. He wants to be in Atl but he can turn down the highest contract because it’s a slap.in the face to MLBPA and him taking a pillow contract this past year. I’m with y’all. Tired of this. Sign on St. Patrick’s day. Book it.
adc6r
It’s not a slap in the face of the player’s association. He has already exceeded the original projection by most analysts. That is what the MLBPA wants.
imissjoebuzas
Someone will give Donaldson 4 years and $100 M. I wouldn’t. Someone will note he had a great bouncback year at age 33. Someone will also look and see he had an injured year at age 32.. Someone will note that Phil Nevin also had an injured age 32 season followed by a great bounceback year at age 33. Someone will say this is apples and oranges, but I don’t. Baseball Reference places Donaldson in an equivalent comparison to Nevin. So someone will want to pay Donaldson through his age 37 season. Nevin slowed noticably in his age 34 season, and he hung up his cleats after a poor age 35 season. Someone will sign Todd Frazier. Someone will trade for Kris Bryant and/or Miguel Andujar. And someone will give Josh Donalson his 4/100. I wouldn’t. Caveat Emptor: Buyer Beware!
Alex Marko
Does baseball reference say Donaldson and Nevin have the same fingerprints? Come from the same parents? If not, then they’re two different human beings so you can’t predict what happens with one based on what happened with the other.
EasternLeagueVeteran
Name another comparable 33 year old third baseman who maintained his numbers through age 35 at the same rate? Doesnt matter the DNA involved. Name me one who achieved what he did at 33 at age 36? You missed the point. The insame part of it is paying him for that long as is he was 33 each if those years.
EasternLeagueVeteran
Then pay him 40 M next year, 30 the year after, 20 the year after that, and 10 the final year of the contract. That way the fans like you wont rant when he can get around on a fastball anymore and he’ll still be owed 30 M ir maybe only 10M.
bravesfan
Can this madness end! I’m dying to see him sign as a brave already
Spare Tire Dixon
Honestly, I kind of wish the Braves had just gone all-in on Grandal and a SP early on. Let Riley and/or an in-season trade address 3B while getting the power production from Catcher
RLD
The Braves roster is pretty much set. They will sign a couple more or invite them to spring training. If they don’t spend the 100 million on Donaldson, they can try and sign another starter and reliever. Maybe an Alex Wood or Vizzy. I can see Matt Joyce back. A few kinda well-known players haven’t signed yet, that are still out there.
Spare Tire Dixon
In hindsight, Grandal and Moustakas signings would have made me happy
James Richardson
At the beginning of the off season I honestly thought this was pretty much a done deal, that there was little doubt he’d be playing for the Braves next year. To be honest I still think he will but I wish we got more reliable information. If it’s as reported then I don’t know what the Braves and their GM are thinking or doing. Why are they risking some other team swooping in and nabbing him over what amounts to pocket change in difference. There aren’t many 40 home run third baseman with gold glove defense in baseball.
One other important thing to remember when squabbling over 2-5 mil extra a year is it’s not just Donaldson you have to think about. Signing him affects the Braves best player and a top 10 player overall Freddie Freeman. If not for his elbow issue hurting him the last month or more he would have set career highs in every category because for the first time in…who knows how long he had protection in that clean up spot from Donaldson.
1. Acuna 2. Albies 3. Freeman 4. Donaldson < is a lot more intimidating than having Camargo or Riley playing third. Halfway through last season it looked like Donaldsons time in Atlanta would be a short one as Austin Riley was setting the world on fire but he didn't jut slump and fall off he left you doubting whether he will ever be able to hit consistently again. FORK IT OVER AND SIGN THE MAN ALREADY. I wish I didn't have the bad luck of rooting for such a historically cheap franchise.
One more thing…they just pulled off 2 of the more remarkably team friendly contracts for star players in history (Acuna and especially Ozzie Albies who they got for a deal of a lifetime) so use that money saved to keep the Bringer of Rain bringing it in Atlanta. It will at least make it up to the fans a little bit for somehow not signing Bumgarner
TaylorLH
I seriously doubt hes holding out for 10M if he had a 4Y/100M offer he would have taken it.
The longer it drags out the more likely i think Texas is to jump back in. Theyve been linked to Castellanos, but if he falls down into something like 4Y and 85-90 I think they end up signing him. Frazier 1B, Donaldson 3B is better than Castellanos 1B, Frazier 3B,