In advance of the winter meetings, let’s take a moment to quickly preview a couple teams from the American League Central…
- The Kansas City Royals will look for value buys on the free agent market, per Lynn Worthy of The Kansas City Star. Given the sale of the team and the managerial transition underway, the Royals have more justification than usual for patience this offseason. With Kansas City, however, there’s often a sense that internal valuations of the talent on hand differs from those of the general public. The Royals continue to present the idea that they are happy with their core, an impression bolstered by the “moon, sun, and stars” type packages the Royals are demanding for players like Whit Merrifield, Danny Duffy and Ian Kennedy. Senior VP of Baseball Ops & GM Dayton Moore refined his fence-walking trick recently while saying both, “…we’re very encouraged with where we are based on how our players performed individually last year,” and also, “I think we’ve got to upgrade everywhere, really.” Pitching is definitely a target, and Moore has been active in trade discussions already, enough to have a sense of where trades might happen – though from Moore’s comments, it seems the Royals are disinclined to be major players on the trade market unless opposing GMs become more amenable to Moore’s ask(s). They do have four open spots on the 40-man roster and should be active in the Rule 5 draft, per The Athletic’s Alec Lewis.
- After being spurned by Zack Wheeler, the White Sox remain in the hunt for starting pitching, per MLB.com’s Scott Merkin. Chicago was also among the teams in on Jordan Lyles before the righty signed with the Rangers, tweets the MLB Network’s Jon Heyman. Their rotation candidates are currently made up of high-ceiling but largely-unestablished youngsters, fronted by 2019 breakout superstar Lucas Giolito. Speculatively, Dallas Keuchel fits nicely from a culture perspective as the perennially-attention-starved White Sox have already added Yasmani Grandal from the nobody-believes-in-us free agent pool – and they like playing with a chip on their shoulder on the southside. As for position players, Chicago boasts close to a full house now that Grandal and Jose Abreu are officially on board. With prospects Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal expected to play a large portion of 2020 in the big leagues, they have one of the more intriguing groups on that side of the ball. Still, there’s definitely room to tinker around the edges, especially in the outfield, where Luis Alexander Basabe, Daniel Palka, Leury Garcia, Adam Engel, and Luis Gonzalez make up the flexible collection of candidates to join Eloy Jimenez and Robert in the outfield.
Puigggggg. Sign all the Cubans!
This looks like a good option actually. Get him for a year and if it works out, extend. If not, balls deep on Betts next off season!
Please no Keuchel. Please yes Bumgarner. Thank you in advance
I think the opposite lol.
Yap – Dunn you are correct. Keuchel 2/25.
Sox have Steiver, Dunning, and Lambert coming.
Burdi and Fulmer for the bullpen.
I’ve no facts but i just cannot see madbum succeeding in a Sox uniform. He’d look weird and not play well.
Bum’s fine. Spin rate’s fine, changeup’s back, 200-inning workhorse, good to go.
Go 4/$100 on Bum and 4/$50 on Keuchel. Let Kopech work in AAA to get his arm built up, and give Lopez until the All Star break to right the ship. If Lopez is atill stuck in neutral, replace him with Kopech.
You are dreaming if you think Keuchel will settle for $12.5 million per year.
I like that idea
Kopech is already on the White Sox’s roster and he is going gone coming out of the bullpen for the first few months.
I believe Yasiel Puig would be the best FA fallback option if the White Sox fail to land their core RF in a trade in the the coming days or weeks. Rick Hahn will focus on a solid lefty hitting RF with some defensive acumen in trade talks before shunning handedness and turning to right-handed hitting options.
When all is said and done I believe that Dallas Keuchel will be the White Sox ‘TOR’ compliment to Lucas Giolito in their 2020 rotation. I think Madison Bumgarner stays in the NL and signs with the Braves, Padres, Cardinals or remains with the Giants. I also believe Hyun-jin Ryu will sign with a west coast team, one of the 3 in southern California or perhaps the Mariners.
Keuchel is a ‘Mark Buehrle’ clone and makes a lot of sense to the White Sox if they can get over the fact his agent is Scott Boras. Keuchel will be substantially cheaper than Bumgarner and also doesn’t have a QO attached to him this offseason. I think he can be had for a for a guaranteed 3 year deal with an AAV around $15MM with any number of options attached to it from a player opt-out, a mutual one or a vesting type based on staying healthy (GS, IP, IL time, etc.).
Calhoun would be a much better fit than Puig. The offense is a wash but he’s leaps and bounds better on defense and is actually a likeable guy
Calhoun would be much happier someplace else.
With Calhoun and Puig the offense isn’t “a wash”: it’s more like Calhoun’s ceiling is just above Puig’s floor. Calhoun had a good year last season; he hit close to his career BA and belted more than 30 HRs. However, in 2018 he struggled to his his weight, batting .208, and only hit 19 HRs. Puig has the much higher upside. Calhoun always plays his best; with Puig, the hope would be to help him live up to his full potential.
Puig is a 5 year old. Forget the “potential” and metrics. Hard pass.
sox apparently have an agreement with marcell ozuna that will be announced on monday.
time to get some pitching.
Sound like fake news to me…. where would he play defensively?
Ozuna rumor was shot down.
The Sox need a RF who can field and hit for power. Ozuna is barely useful as a LFer. Not a good fit.
sss847, is one of your past aliases Wetbutt23 or KatyPerrysBootyHole? Oh I hope I hope I hope!
The White Sox could benefit from adding one more bat—someone who could provide some power while playing corner OF/DH. But otherwise this offense is coming along nicely. It would seem like a good place to take the mound. Perhaps they can still reign in a top SP and also get someone in prove-it mode (a Lance Lynn/Mike Minor type).
I think a trade for Charlie Blackmon would be worth considering. He’s a left hand bat who now plays right field. Has power and a very respectable defensive player. Additionally, he’s controlable for 3 years. Sox would need to get cash in the transaction.
You think the Rockies are setting a rebuild?
There have been article that indicate they want to dump salaries. I thought offering Engel and Rodon for $$$ and Blackmon would be a win-win.
I’ve not given up hope on Rodon, but if there’s a solid return??? The thing that worries me about him is he looks like a fat kid that could revert to his old ways at any minute.
Assuming the “fat kid” comment was about Blackmon, then you have your DH,
No, Rodon.
An interesting tidbit on Blackmon though. I got a tour of Coors field with one of their execs a couple years back and it was clear Blackmon was not a well liked fella by the nonplayers. Apparently the dude is a huge jag off
Then even better. They’ll love getting rid of him. If the $ and pieces traded net his contract to the $14-18 M range per hr, that would a great deal for the Sox.
Maybe if you offered McCann and Steiver the Rockies would bite and eat 5-8 MM of salary
Charlie Blackmon is far too old for this team. We’re certainly not offering low priced assets for that old dude contract.
Best case scenario:
1. Trade for Betts
2. Sign Bumgarner, Tehran, Castellanos, Dyson and stopgap 2b until Madrigal is ready.
Most likely Betts can’t be had at reasonable cost. Needs are 1-2 veteran starters, Rf. Plenty of options available. Winter meetings should be exciting!
1. What would you see then giving up in a trade? I don’t believe Hahn will sacrifice much there with his long term view. I could see them pursuing Betts in FA next year though.
2. You don’t think Leury is going to fill that role?
Get real! The CWS aren’t gonna sign Betts. They have never gone Near $100M for any FA. And why would Betts, or any self respecting FA, sign in a cheap, underachieving organization?
Dogbone: Why? Money. Betts is in it for the money.
They apparently had a higher offer than philly for wheeler. So they’ve tried to spend over $100M.
Uh…for the money?
Bad Dogbone. Dogbone bad.
Because Betts is gonna cost 2 1/2 times more than their ownership has ever paid for a player. And if you were Betts, why would you sign with an organization that has Repeatedly shown they refuse to spend in order to fortify their talent base.
They offered $120M+ to wheeler but the dude’s wife is too hot to say no to apparently. Reinsdorf spends when it makes sense. The dude has brought seven titles to Chicago.
You should be working in the White House. Six titles are in a different sport, and you can thank MJ for those.
It would be an honor to work for Gold Leader.
Haha amen to that
ah because from ’84-’90 the bulls won so many titles with Jordan. Definitely all him.
Wheeler is a joke.
Dogbone, please tell us where Betts may land next off-season? Not too many major market teams have the money to offer him while addressing other needs! This is why these rumors are what they are “rumors”.
The White Sox have their tv deal and looking to spend money where the payroll can be around $130 million this year.
Dogbone,
You’re the worst. Why do you even bother to comment on the White Sox!? You’re the definition of a troll. It’s pathetic really. Get a life. Every single post about the White Sox, you’re here with your negative garbage. I thought “Bryzzo” was bad, but at least he/she can admit when there’s something of merit occasionally. You’re just a tool.
I am still waiting for Dogbone’s response to my last comment where he thinks Betts is going to sign at!
Bumgartner will eventually break down.
Castellanos can play defense.
Moodier Betts would leave after 1 yr and destroy the rebuild.
Teheran is mediocre at very best.
Dysentery…. why?
Stopgap 2nnd baseman for 6 weeks???? Why?
Glad you’re not in the front office!!!
Did you mean can’t play defense?
Yes thx!
The Law Firm of Moodier and Dysentery would like to have a word with you.
Lol
What other pitcher on market is better bet? They won’t get Cole or Stras. Tehran gives rotation innings. Won’t break bank and gives team a chance to win most games. Dyson plays exceptional defense in outfield so Castellanos can DH or can be replaced late in games. Who plays 2b until Madrigal comes up?? Lots of cheap options on market. No guarantee Madrigal is ready in May.
I’m not convinced they won’t spend on the top two. My spidey sense it’s tingling.
Ivan Nova can give you innings too, but how did that work out? Engel is a better defender that Dyson, so they have no need for the latter.
Dont need Dyson… Engle can do what he does for less $$$
Castellanos would give us 2 beliw par OFers.
Not impressed with teheron.
News headlines reporting CWS considering going all-in on Stras. I highly doubt it.
Madrigal is ready.
He’ll probably ink a deal in ST allowing him to head north with the big squad for Opening Day.
Sox feel he’s good enough to undergo any further seasoning as a Major Leaguer.
Madrigal will end up with a career like Ronald Torreyes.
Sounds like a realistic plan for Madrigal. Can’t
wait to see him play.
Hahn’s not dumb enough to trade for Betts a year before free agency. The Red Sox are very greedy, they won’t accept fair return (a few low level prospect or one mid level prospect).
I’m actually starting to believe the White Sox addres going to make a serious run for Cole or Strasburg. Next year’s pitching FA pool is atrocious. Failing to grab a high quality SP or two this offseason is going to waste two years of Moncada, Jiminez, Giolito, Anderson, Robert, and Madrigal. Not to mention two years of the Grandal contract.
Don’t see the Sox giving up any prospects of consequence in a trade either. Hahn said years ago they were building to compete long term, don’t see them sacrificing the farm for any reason.
I agree. No need to trade young talent for Betts if they can make a run at him next year. I also think they may be a sleeper to go after Strasburg. However it’s unlikely he signs with them.
Dunn,,,,the CWS don’t have any decent prospects of consequence to trade, outside of the ones you name above – as being with the big club next year. The remainder of their system is less than mediocre.
And Iron, please, with their ‘storied history’ of not paying free agents, you seem to think they will sign Cole or Stras!! Hohoho.
Kopech, Vaughn, Dunning? Don’t think they should/ would part with anyone, but the Sox farm still has some talent.
They’re not trading Kopech – and your not getting Betts for Vaughn and Dunning.
Sox are not trading Betts. They are totally unrealistic in their expectations and they will wind up holding him for a QO draft pick.
Wouldn’t want to. Spend for FAs and save the farm.
Those two would absolutely get a year of Betts. The White Sox wouldn’t make that trade.
Ya that would make no sense to trade assets for Betts when he could just leave in a year
You’re anti Sox bias makes you look stupid again Dogbone. The Sox wouldn’t or shouldn’t give up control of Vaughn for one year of Betts. Any baseball fan that knows the worth of prospects would tell you that. Whether or not he pans out to be a stud or never makes the show you don’t give up on a top 20 talent for one season of a guy who’s going the route of free agency.
No way Red Sox get Vaughn for one year of Betts
he said “decent prospects . . . to trade”: they’ve not parting with Kopech, probably not with Vaughn. They’d be selling low on Dunning until he proves he’s back from Tommy John.
Dogbone also said they’re not getting Betts for Vaughn and Dunning. He’s a jaded Cubs fan who loves to spend his time trolling like a clown
Sox have the money to sign either or both Strasburg and Cole. If not I want Bumgarner.
Ty, we finally agree: that the CWS do have the money to sign Cole and Stras.
Good Dogbone. Dogbone good.
Carson Fuller has been a total turd. But a high enough pick there could be some interest as another throw in as a change of scenery guy.
He wasn’t pegged to be a starter by anybody but the Sox when he was drafted. He might have some life left as a bullpen arm.
Fullmer could be a valuable bullpen piece – – for the Gary Southshore Railcats.
Dogbane. Serious question, are you Bryzzo? That guy disappeared and I’m worried. If not glad to see you taken over his thrown as king of the nonsensical statements.
bingo.
Dogbane Bryzzo? I’m shocked.
I would hate to be a Royals fan smh. Seriously, Danny Duffy is paid $15M and they’re making a case he deserves a big return?
That was my exact thought, Ian Kennedy even more so. I understand not wanting to give these guys away for nothing, but these are the exact kinds of players that a rebuilding team like the Royals should be trading.
Hopefully for their sake it is just posturing to drive the price up
I am a royals fan and it is painful sometimes lol. I do hope they can trade and salary dump some players that won’t help much through the rebuild
The Royals have the dumbest management in baseball. All three should be on the move for the best offer.
I honestly think the White Sox have no plan for pitching right now, since they were all in on Wheeler, and also wanted Hamels.
Think again. Next season’s FA pitching market is garbage. It’s do or die for the Sox on this rebuild. They’ll spend, mark my words.
For who?
If they are going after Jordan Lyles, it’s pretty clear at least to me that they don’t have much faith or interest in landing anyone else.
Cole, Strasburg, Ryu…. I have a feeling they are gonna spend. We’ll see.
Seeing as they need multiple starters, I don’t know why going after Lyles would bother you so much.
I see Ryu signing with the Sox for too many year and too much $. They have to sign or trade for an arm.
Because Lyles is not a good pitcher. Might as well bring back Nova if you are going that route. It screamed of a panic signing attempt.
Boras will have an extortionate price tag on Keuchel/Ryu now given decent starter supply is less than demand. Twins and WSox in for a shakedown (among others). MadBum will get his 5/105-110 from someone.
If they hold a view that 3 “upside” rotation spots next few years will come from in-house among Giolito/Cease/Kopech/Lopez/Dunning/Stiever for relatively cheap…..they can cringe to knowingly overpay for a solid veteran.
Who is being extorted?
I don’t think they wanted Hamels. He did a 30-minute podcast (Sox talk or one of those) in which he explained all the ways he would benefit the team and the young pitchers. Then he signed three days later . . . seems like he was there for the taking with the Sox, so they probably weren’t interested.
I tend to take what they do on podcast as sign of what front office wants to do, since it’s pretty much the White Sox station. Hamels on a short deal would have made sense, but I doubt they were willing to pay 18 million for him.
Sox want younger long term players. Hamels was probably hoping the White Sox would drive up his price. Historically the Sox aren’t a team to do that, but they are this year.
Seems nobody that is good wants to play for the White Sox even when they are the highest bidder. I think the fans will be disappointed with the 2020 team.
I guess Grandal isn’t good…
1 guy chooses to go where his wife wants to be when the offers were basically the same, and that means nobody good wants to play for the Sox. Got it.
Grandal and Moustakas jumped at the first long term deal offered. I can’t imagine 31 year old catcher wanted to keep signing 1 year deals and moustakas has been stuck with crap two years in a row.
both of them have also made three playoffs for the last two years so I feel like they were comfortable doing what they do.
dbec, you’re half right. Players don’t mind playing for the White Sox. It’s rival front offices, the national sports media, agents and baseball “purists” who don’t want the Sox getting top players via free agency. They treat the White Sox as a “dirtbag” franchise. The national sports media don’t even try to hide their bias towards certain coastal markets (NY, Boston, LA, Philly, DC, and Dallas). The Tigers get attention and free agents for some reason, but that’s it. I don’t care how much money the Sox make everyone believe they’re willing to spend, or what their roster needs are, they will never get a top player. Never. Meanwhile, teams who get free agent after free agent, and some that don’t because they won’t spend (ATL) still get players thrown at them. The Sox, Twins, cubs, Reds, Cardinals, and Brewers get screwed year after year. The Pirates and Indians would too, if they actually tried (but don’t). It’s like the MLB only cares about top free agents going to the east or west coast. This is not perception, it is fact—look it up.
seriously. I need you to shut up. you make white Sox fans like me look bad.
Truth hurts, don’t it chimp?
chump
” and they like playing with a chip on their shoulder on the southside. ”
Really?
Yeah, they can’t write anything about the White Sox on MLBTR without it being biased and insulting. Zero objectivity with media coverage these days.
The paragraph on the Sox was derived from an article written by Scott Merkin, who follows the Sox for MLB. He’s from the Chicago area, has reported on the team for over a decade, and is well-positioned to know if this is a chip-on-the-shoulder team. I wouldn’t view Merkin’s take as insulting, but rather appreciative of a certain attitude that he’s observed.
If that’s the case, the comment should have been attributed and referenced. And that doesn’t make it right, or less insulting. Nobody “likes” playing with a chip on their shoulder. Usually people have a chip on their shoulder because they’ve been screwed over somehow.
but they haven’t been. they’ve been bad at drafting and developing.
I don’t see why they would have a chip on their shoulder… because Machado went to the Padres? Well, every team has players choose other teams over them. That’s the only thing I can think of… they should have explained it a little better I guess. Just seems like a strange comment.
And the part about “attention starved”… They feel like no one wants to talk about them. They seek attention? Well, either win some games or lose a bunch. If you stay in the middle, you get lost in the crowd.
Bingo
Also not true. I think you’re the dumbest person ever to visit this site.
I think you’re projecting. You’re the dumb one because you have no idea what I’m talking about. Take the red pill and wake up, stupid.
Tough to play with a chimp on your shoulder.
IMO, It would be surprising if the White Sox signed any of the top Boras FAs (Cole, Stras, Ryu, Dallas, Nick, etc).
I could see Keuchel, Calhoun, and Teheran in pinstripes
Yankee pinstripes?
No the Hanshin Tigers, moron.
The White Sox and numerous other teams have pinstripes sh’fer.
How many teams can boast about a lineup like the White Sox:: Moncada, Anderson, Abreau, Jimenez, Grandal and Robert? That includes the MLB batting champ, AL RBI leader, #3 in AL hitting and. Minor league player of the year.
They won 72 games. The roster has good core of young talent to build around. Unfortunately, the Sox don’t enjoy the privilege of spending millions of dollars to fortify a young roster like some other clubs do. Sounds ridiculous, but that’s the state of all pro sports now. Having money to spend doesn’t make you relevant—your proximity to NY or LA does.
Easy CSC, they were just asking how many teams. I’d say BOS, NYY, PHI, WAS, ATL, HOU, LAD… OAK?
8.
Welfare teams like the Sox don’t get free agents that want to win for a good reason, and 1 win in over 100 years is all the evidence you need to see they’re right.
WTF is a “welfare team”?
I don’t think free agency has been a thing for that long, so your “evidence” is pointless nonsense.
By your definition, wouldn’t the Phillies be a welfare team too? Angels? Mets? Braves? How do the Rangers get anybody, they haven’t won jack! Oh, snd go screw yourself.
Cubs fan here. Never been a Sox hater. I like the rotation now, assuming everyone is healthy. Getting “spurned” by Wheeler isn’t a big deal. I don’t think he is what they need anyway. Madbum has been there and knows how to win championships. Go get him and enjoy the playoffs for a long time to come.
Getting spurned by Wheeler isn’t a big deal. Getting spurned by all of the top FA starting pitchers this offseason would be. They finally have the core talent and financial flexibility to end the rebuild snd push for contention. And this is the year to do it with the pitching available. Just signing Keuchel doesn’t fulfill a need, nor does it put them in contention. So yes, it is a big deal. By the looks of things, they won’t get anybody that makes them significantly better, which means they waste a low payroll and a full year of control over their young talent. Same crap happened last time when Sale was here. Couldn’t get anyone to sign, had to start over and rebuild. Complete waste of time. And they wonder why fans don’t bother. They’re not stupid, that’s why. We understand what’s going on.
Sorry but, CWS fans like myself know that our playoff success is merely supported by a TOR FA pitcher. But here’s the problem: we have 3 already. So all this gotta spend now and gotta get these guys now is all a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with setting up a quality team for years to come. You just want to follow the Cubs model of overpaying for pitching. Look where that got them?
One and done.
What needs to be calculated is our having a widening core of young players who will all be making more money soon. And they need to be made happy. All that is thrown to the wind with one or two massive contracts getting in the way of everything we’ve built up.
First of all, Giolito had one good year so far, and it wasn’t enough to go .500, let alone contend. Cease is still developing, and lacks command. Kopech’s coming back from TJ surgery. Lopez and Rodon are wildly inconsistent. Collectively, the rotation is very young snd inexperienced. It could another two or three years before the rotation as currently constructed is good enough to contend. Then you have to worry about injuries and lack of playpff experience. So tack on another two years on top pf that, and they might be lucky enough to make a deep playoff run before contracts come due. Then you’ve wasted all that financial flexibility, and you’re forced to trade guys and start over. You really need to think this thru farther than next year. The lack of improvements to the roster now would have longterm effects. If you only rely on homegrown talent to win a championship, you’re going to have a short window, and a lot of time waiting for guys to develop. That model won’t work in Chicago. It just won’t. The Sox need star players, and they need to be relevant if they ever want to win market share in the Chicagoland area. Get a guy like Cole, Strasburg or Bumgarner, and suddenly you have players people want to come see. They’re ruining their brand because they’ve failed to field players people want to see and and they can win with. Fans like you who constantly worry about the team’s payroll are foolish. You support the team signing marginal players on the cheap, but you aren’t spending money on tickets to watch these players. It’s a road to nowhere for the team and what’s left of the fanbase.
ChiSoxCity- Bullseye. Couldn’t agree more.
I’m very much thinking about longer than one year out. While I agree we may sell more tickets for a superstar player, there’s a little trap we can find ourselves in very quickly if we go that route. You’re lumping in home grown talent approach without expecting payrolls 2-3 years from now. And I think more than a few players on this team are qualified as next gen or future stars.
So, let’s say you’re right and we get our payroll this year up to $140MM. The guys that would get us to that number are not one year deals and force our hand to $160MM, $180MM, $200MM in the years following. Or do you plan on giving up Moncada, Giolito and probably Kopech too?
Hence, exactly where the Cubs are right now and next year.
only 1 player would fall under that category (star signed for over 4 years) and that is either Cole or Strasburg. I don’t think Rendon is a priority here although he helps any team, but it is basically 1 TOR pitcher then some mid level pieces that will be gone before Moncada and Gio hit free agency.
Rally, your numbers are way wrong. Hard to talk Sox baseball and payroll with guys who are risk adverse and fiscally conservative, because they don’t appreciate or understand scale. The Sox are operating on a vastly reduced budget for a reason. That reason being to take on bigger contracts once the rebuild ends. We’ve come to that point. This is Chicago, not Cleveland or Pittsburgh. You want the fans to show up and support a club that’s been bad for over a decade? You need a better product then what you’ve given them before. Nick Castellanos, Dallas Keuchel and Yasmani Grandal ain’t going to cut it. They might win 10 more games with those guys in 2020, but that ain’t going to cut it either. Minnesota would still win the division, and Cleveland would probably still be 2nd place. The Sox need to think bigger than that. We fans need to have bigger expectations as well.
Chisox, I get that. The problem is you and the fans you are imagining who are with you are asking to take on risk that have disastrous consequences.
Name one Chicago fan, other than yourself who wants 2 new players eventually over 34 years old making a combined $50-60MM?
What I am trying to show you, is that playing to our strengths is always better than filling gaps with the most costly options (just because you want them to spend because maybe you somehow feel cheated).
Our strengths are having 3 years of high draft picks, coupled with a trade investment made 3 years ago totaling 12-15 excellent young players who compose the team this year, next year and the year after. The closest team who can make a similar claim to the hottest team in baseball probably has half or fewer players in total.
That’s what is great about the White Sox. You want it all now, I understand you’ve been waiting and are owed or something, but this team doesn’t get worse 3 years from now unless it takes on a couple monster contracts even if they both work out for a couple years.
I believed in James Shields, I rooted for him even when he was getting lit up. It seems you want two of them, who are good now (for tickets and contention) but then you have to ask if it means having old dudes who are overpaid is worth losing the foundation we’ve spent 3 years to build?
My answer is no. I don’t care if we win the division next year or not. I think we’re already better than last year with what we have right now. When you’re dealing with all the youngsters, you’re helping them find their way and getting them the experience and confidence to break through. This is happening to Giolito, Anderson, Moncada, McCann and Jimenez. I am quite comfortable adding Madrigal and Robert to that list.
2020 White Sox All Stars (5)
Giolito
Grandal
Anderson
Moncada
Jimenez
2021 White Sox All Stars (7 is that even allowed?)
Giolito
Kopech
Grandal
Anderson
Moncada
Jimenez
Robert
Madrigal
You could probably throw Abreu in there at least one year, and maybe Dylan Cease, Aaron Bummer, Alex Colome.
Your plan? Let’s spend a bunch of cash now and screw the whole thing up.
Jeez, what a loser mentality.
The White Sox claim to want three things: increased ticket sales, a world series championship, sustained window of contention. The path to achieving all three objectives has been laid out by clubs like the Nats, Astros, cubs, and Red Sox. You acquire and develop core of young, talented, and controllable players on rookie contracts. Then you add an elite veteran pitcher and a few other veteran pieces to fill holes as needed. Every team needs the consistency and leadership a few elite veteran players provide. On a young team, it is essential and non-negotiable. Scherzer, Lester, Verlander. Same scenario, same result. The fans showed up to see them, they won championships, and have remained relevant for multiple seasons. This may happen on the southside without a TOR free agent pitcher added to the roster. Odds are it won’t. Do you really want to sit around and wait for Cease, Lopez and Rodon to “figure it out”? Opportunity. Wasted. Rinse and repeat.
Oh yeah, and who cares if an elite player declines during the life of the contract? You gonna not marry someone because you’re worried they’ll get old at some point? Ridiculous. If you give a 29 year old Cy Young pitcher a 7 year contract, and get four years of historic performance out of it for your franchise, he’s earned his contract regardless of what he does after that. That’s over half the contract.
Your thoughts are correct , but something could be different this time around. Our current window of opportunity is 2020-2023. This could be extended to 2025 just by getting Yoan Moncada extended for 2 additional years. The rest of the core is under control for the next 6 years. We could also extend Giolito but I’m not wild about long term contracts on pitchers.
I really don’t think it’s a loser mentality necessarily. The circumstances are too different to apply known strategy as the expected norm. Allow me to use the example of another team I know some things about, the Cubs.
To get their championship, which was miraculous and wonderful and all that, it wasn’t a given. Not even close. Some could say if it didn’t rain delay in the eighth inning, Cleveland would be the champs.
To my understanding, their plan was to tank, corner the market on drafting hitters by not drafting pitching, and then pay for pitching later when the bats are ready. And dump the manager for a showcase.
What CWS has is a bevy of talent both offensively and defensively through draft and trade who are all under 24-25. I looked at the ages. We have 4-5 players on our team older than 29. This is a spry young team that would be considered high risk and in need of more veteran presence under circumstances where they are underachieving, but they’re not.
This young, talented group has seen many take the next step. What the CWS showed the world last year is that they need pitching. How do you think that makes our vast internal pitchers respond?
We could just as easily fill position players and bolster our offense, which we are doing, and let the pitchers step up by providing them that opportunity. So we might give up 4-5 runs per game half the time. So what? It makes for some interesting baseball, if that’s never too hard to overcome.
Kopech and Giolito are straight up fighters. Carlos Rodon is a menacing left-hander and will be considerably more than adequate. Cease is a talented, competitive, high composure guy. Reynaldo Lopez is still finding consistency, but when on target he is probably better than 90% of pitchers in the game currently. All five get better from Yasmani Grandal and he knows it. McCann is right in there as a co-instructor.
Now we can’t do nothing about pitching, because of obvious injury recoveries, etc. Why not bring back an established Ivan Nova, who was firing at the trade deadline last year and fits in already? That, and maybe a controllable pitcher through trade like Noah Syndergaard. Or pick up a one year on Trevor Bauer in 2021. I could go as far as bringing a pitcher from free agency who’s a 3-4 year deal not exceeding $80MM, preferably less.
Then start giving awards where earned with the young guys. Something like Eloy’s ramp contract. It all makes sense.
While I have faith in Kopech and Gio, Rodon is toast and Lopez belongs in the pen. Cease is a wildcard.
The team needs to SIGN two pitchers or trade for pitching.
Hahn needs to get over this absurd fear of going after Boras agents. If you want the best, you have to pay.
They don’t have the talent in minors to finish the rebuild.
The Sox are in the unusual position of having money to spend. They won’t shy away from Boras clients this year.
I’d like to see Rodon converted to a reliever. He might excel that way and actually hold up over time.
I’m not giving up on Lopez. He’s learning in a fish bowl. Sox let guys do that at the big league level rather than doing it in AAA.
Who do they let learn in the majors?
If 19-year-old Mickey Mantle was in the minors with the White Sox, Hahn would hold him down in the minors for service time purposes, so he could work on his ability to leg out triples.
The Sox highest payroll was like $130 million and they had a few times around $115-120 million. If the Sox would have spent $120 million the last 3 years and fielded a competitive team instead of rebuilding while paying team salaries of $91m, $71m, and $86m they would be out the $112 million dollars Reinsdorf pocketed while rebuilding.
Let’s go a step further and say if Chicago (a large market team) would have carried “league average” payroll during that span, which is roughly $138 million, then Reinsdorf would be out the $166 million he pocketed by fielding a bull**it team for 3 years.
I’m 100% on board with the rebuild and agree the low payroll was suitable for a rebuilding team, but if the Sox aren’t pushing the luxury tax then any talk about spending limits is straight B.S.
MadBum at 4 years, Grandal at 4 years, any player for 4 years or less is off the books before Moncada and Giolito hit free agency. Yes you have arbitration raises and should leave some breathing room for that, but IF that happens to become an issue down the road that is a good thing, right? That means Moncada/Giolito are playing well and maybe this team is also.
@dazed, It is a good thing. But I have a feeling we’re going to see more than a $2-3MM uptick each year for Giolito, Moncada, Robert, Kopech, Madrigal, Lopez, Fry, Bummer, and maybe even a renegotiated deal for Anderson if he keeps putting it up. I’m sure they’d be happier having their contracts sorted before we go and spend $80MM per year on 4-5 people this winter.
3-4 year contracts can work too. I just don’t see the top end pitchers going for that. At age 29-30 they shouldn’t be thinking less than 6-7 years.
realistically Sox would only have ONE large contract, Cole or Strasburg, then supplement the roster with smaller signing that expire before the 4 year window. That leaves plenty of flexibility to negotiate with existing players IF they continue to develop and become perennial stars. That is IF they become worthy.
dazed, you still don’t get it. Pay attention. The Sox have money. The Sox had money before. The Sox can’t spend the money on the talent they need. So what is the point of spending $130MM or more on a bunch of dogs that won’t get you into the playoffs. It’s the whole reason they decided to rebuild to begin with. You people act like you were born yesterday. Like you’re memories automatically get wiped clean in a few days.
Royals overreaching to trade their assets is funny. And dumb.
I’m not favoring a Kyle Hendricks trade, but he’s probably the Cubs most valuable trade asset at 4/44 MM throwing up near 4 fwar seasons. Him, Almora, and Chatwood for Merrifield, Duffy, and Kennedy isn’t that bad
Hendricks is better than Wheeler making less than half the $$$
Uh, no. cubs fans Od’ing on the koolaid again.
He actually is
That’s a terrible deal for the Cubs!
I’m glad they didn’t sign Wheeler. I know they won’t get Cole or Stras. I’d like to get Mad Bum or Keuchel. Castellanos in RF would be a nice get also.
Luis Robert is exciting. He’ll be the talk of MLB next season!